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OfflineDivided_Sky
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The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light
    #2988427 - 08/10/04 10:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"In the mind, the mind is not to be found. The nature of the Mind is Clear Light."-
Shakyamuni Buddha

What do you guys think of this? I can almost grasp it. I was meditating very deeply on the passage and I began to feel like I was looking into this body and mind from somewhere else, from the Void, and shinning it with a flashlight, bringing light into the darkness. Or maybe I was the flashlight. Sort of like an infinite and impersonal mind, illuminating this body and mind with it's projected consciousness.

I would have seen more but I became too frightened. I realized that it was my choice not to be Awake and Enlightened because I am too afraid of the truth.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2988464 - 08/10/04 10:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

that's a neat story, thanks. :cheers:


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OfflineSource
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2989478 - 08/11/04 03:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I realized that it was my choice not to be Awake and Enlightened because I am too afraid of the truth.




I've come to the same realization myself. It sounds like you and I are to a large extent in the same place.

When you get down to it, I think everyone is running from the truth of existence...playing the game of ego as a way to escape from facing the void.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Source]
    #2989501 - 08/11/04 03:57 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"In the mind, the mind is not to be found. The nature of the Mind is Clear Light."-

thats heavy. heres my take

mind refers to the ego, the amalgamation of thoughts, fears, beliefs, preferances and memories that we believe is 'us'

However, this is not the true nature of 'you' nor the true form of your conciousness, it is an illusion. The true nature of mind (and some of you may know that i equate mind with reality, and thus also the true nature of reality) is indeed 'clear light'

what does that mean? while, what is light? light, as we know, contains within it all the colours of the spectrum, and yet it is clear. Pure light is invisible. In order to percieve, we select certain shades from an infinite spectrum, and tune out the others. Thus we create our ego, and our reality. We choose some things over others, and that is what we focus on and perceive.

In a state where all preferance and denial is gone, both mind and reality are clear. We percieve nothing because we are percieving everything.


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Offlinesillysimon
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2989533 - 08/11/04 04:06 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

" you can never be lost,when have you ever been apart from me? you can never depart and never return... for we are continuos.. undistinguishable." the egp picks up the weapon of art, childlike it plays with the trigger...blowing the head off its contradicted self, awarness is suddenly bigger by slaying the ego and stunning the chatter of thoughts as they rise.


--------------------
In the dawn my toes are cold They spread their little trinkets on the ground In the hall By the closet door They creep into my bed without sound On a cube In a plastic egg A hundred fabric figures in a pile See them march Toward me And dance across the floor trippily Little faces keep no track of time Little faces speaking out in rhyme Little faces smiling in my mind Tiny doors For walking through sticky fingers clutch forbidden things the phone For talking through Sinking ships On a foamy sea That tumbles from the motion of filthy Little hands In the dark When eyes are wide listen to secrets that I tell In a ball On tiny beds Or beneath them where the shadow people dwell moon Beams split the night Leave bars of yellow pasted on their faces As they drift into a dream


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Offlinesillysimon
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: sillysimon]
    #2989535 - 08/11/04 04:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

ego*


--------------------
In the dawn my toes are cold They spread their little trinkets on the ground In the hall By the closet door They creep into my bed without sound On a cube In a plastic egg A hundred fabric figures in a pile See them march Toward me And dance across the floor trippily Little faces keep no track of time Little faces speaking out in rhyme Little faces smiling in my mind Tiny doors For walking through sticky fingers clutch forbidden things the phone For talking through Sinking ships On a foamy sea That tumbles from the motion of filthy Little hands In the dark When eyes are wide listen to secrets that I tell In a ball On tiny beds Or beneath them where the shadow people dwell moon Beams split the night Leave bars of yellow pasted on their faces As they drift into a dream


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2992198 - 08/11/04 07:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Source, I've noticed that we have had alot of the same philosophical issues. My question is do you still trip? I am considering doing some Pedro next month, but I kind of worry about seeing too much. I feel that my doors of perception are open and now it is pretty hard to avoid the cosmic knowledge, though I often wish I could. Are you able to trip without being forced into a confrontation with the Cosmic Horror?


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2992217 - 08/11/04 07:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Divided sky, me and you need to sit down and have a little one on one about this cosmic horror thing. I understand where your coming from, totally. It sounds like youve had an experience VERY similar to mine, and it left you with the knowledge 'i am all that is'

and this is more than half true. However, where you see the 'cosmic horror' of life, i have found great joy. Sometime we need to figure out why that is...


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2992271 - 08/11/04 07:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It may boil down to something as simple as life circumstances. Who knows, if I already felt good about things in general my attitude might be different.
Perhaps it is a result of different personalities. I have a very overgrown ego that likes to be in complete control of my mind and body, is hyper analytical and far too imaginative. Maybe you just have less of the clinging and dreaming to let go of. I've always been looking for a way to get out of my head and into the direct experience of life, but it depresses me to think that there is no way out, nothing to experience but myself.
The irony I see for myself is that my ego is suffering from sort of an Oedipus Rex problem. My overactive and ambitous mind pushed me into thinking about and being aware of cosmic truth, only to find that there is no room for me, it or anything I care about in cosmic truth. I tried to solve the problem, but it turns out I am the problem.
It all seems so empty and alien to me. I wish I could see the comfort some people do.


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OfflineSource
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2992562 - 08/11/04 08:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

My first confrontation with the void was experienced after (not during) an ultra-high dose shroom trip.

I am very sensitive to psychedelics and have actually had full blown ego loss from canibus alone. Usually on canibus, I have experiences of identifying with Christ on the cross as I look into the void and cry, 'My God, My God! Why have you forsaken me'.

This is powerful enough...I can't immagine taking another mega-trip. I think I already have my 'homework' to do sober.

Speaking only for myself, as I said, the only way out is to remove myself from the picture. I guess I do have faith that the ultimate state of being is bliss and that it is only myself that gets in the way.

I coresponded with an aging guy who knew exactly what I was experiencing and had experienced it himself. He told me that the state of the Cosmic Horror is actually the ante-chamber to the absolute, not the absolute itself. I choose to have faith in this and have been trying to reach through to the absolute ever since.

Tell me , as a result of this, do you now KNOW that you are immortal?

Blah, blah, blah...

But let me tell you this...I know what you are feeling and I hope you will understand when I say that my heart is open to you.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2992699 - 08/11/04 08:52 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It was actually cannabis that showed me as well. Shrooms, mescaline and meditation had all been leading me down that path of inquiry but one night I got WAAAY too high and felt I strong ego confusion. I wouldn't say it was ego loss, because I still felt scared and uncomfortable at what I was seeing, but it was like I became aware that I was just little thought impulses upon a blank screen, or maybe I was the blank screen. Everything else was also the same thought impulses, it was all the same thing, a dream with nobody dreaming it, and me just a superificial character. Everywhere I looked inwardly I saw nothingness. It was like I was looking back at myself through a mirror, but what I was looking was nothing and so was I.

I would not say from this experience I learned that I was immortal, but in the meditation this post started from I definately got that feeling. But then I stopped. What I do know however, is that the continium is endless, but every moment is mortal. Every moment dies instantly. That thought scared me the most because I felt very unhinged from all the order that a past and future provide.


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OfflineSource
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2995092 - 08/12/04 12:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
...I became aware that I was just little thought impulses upon a blank screen, or maybe I was the blank screen. Everything else was also the same thought impulses, it was all the same thing, a dream with nobody dreaming it, and me just a superificial character. Everywhere I looked inwardly I saw nothingness. It was like I was looking back at myself through a mirror, but what I was looking was nothing and so was I.




That was very well said, I can get a sense of what you felt. In my case I became identified with an entity of some sort existing in the eternal void. So for me, the path is clear...destroy the entity. In your case you ran smack into the truth that the entity (or ego) really doesn't even exist in the first place.

It sounds to me like you are getting close to liberation! Don't give up and don't be afraid! Once the illusion of self is shattered fear will have no meaning and there will only be release and joy.

Although the details may differ, I would say that we both experienced more than the ego can handle.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflinePed
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3000980 - 08/13/04 03:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What Buddha means is that we can't discover the mind and it's nature by intending to explore the mind. If we turn our mind's attention toward the mind, we get caught up chasing our tail, trying to bite our own teeth, or touch our own finger tip. It is like we are trying to turn around so that we may see the back of our own head.

Some expansions on Buddha's words about mind (may aid with meditation):

"The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light." The mind is perfectly clear. We say that glass is clear, but glass is not clear enough to know. The mind is clear enough to know and perceive. When moving about your life, do not focus on the objects which appear to your mind. Instead, focus on the clarity which allows those objects to appear. Now consider, just as stormy clouds cannot damage the sky, so too our thoughts cannot damage the mind. The mind is a continuum, it is formless, it has no shape, no colour. It is perfect clarity, luminous emptiness.


--------------------


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Offlinedmtrypr
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3001195 - 08/13/04 04:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The less you fear your own self, the deeper you can go. The deeper you go, the more vast, more infinite you become. Going within creates an expansion that echos throughout the universe. We are all microcosms in the macrocosm. The nature of the mind is something that we may never KNOW. We all create a mind of our own to suit our purposes here on earth. The mind accesses our experiences to create behaviours, attitudes, judgements, "programs". To go beyond mind to go beyond the little you, you find the pure light.


--------------------
"There is no greater power in heaven and earth than the thought of the son of man. Though unseen by the eyes of the body,yet each thought has mighty strength, even such strength can shake the heavens." -Gospel of the Essenes


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Offlinedmtrypr
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: dmtrypr]
    #3001254 - 08/13/04 04:35 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I too have experienced much confusion, depression, exasperation, frustration, etc. I sought to understand by learning the physical sciences, then the sciences of the mind (psychology/philosophy), still unsatisfied, I began to look into the unknown. The metaphysical and the trancendant. I did not buy into ALL that I was shown, but I learned that I was my own guide through the path of life. The BIG I was a separate being from the little I, the ego, the physical body that knows hurt, pain, frustration, confusion, regret. I was directed by my big I to learn upliftment techniques. This is "energy work", this is "healing techniques", yoga, chi-gung, reiki, etc. The benefit that these bring into ones existence goes beyond meditation. Meditation shows you who you are by simply being. Meditation, however, is limited by what you think, what you judge, who you believe you are. Upliftment techniques involve immersing yourself into the creative present moment of NOW. This is the "holy spirit" that bridges the gap between the "father" and the "son". We are all triune beings with triune consciousness. One that exists in time and space, one that exists only in the present, and one that exists in all times, all spaces, and is infinitely KNOWING. We can access this aspect of our self, the HIGHER self. It guides, encourages, drives us through our life. When we forget that part of us we feel lost, alone, discouraged. Our faith in ourselves and others dwindles. I encourage you both to respond to this post as I understand what openess of the heart entailes. I am opening up my entirety of being to offer hope and guidance to kindred spirits. Kundhalini is awakening and we are moving towards unity, but the path travels through the valley of darkness, the shadow of death looms, and sometimes, we stumble. I offer you a shoulder to lean on as one who has suffered alongside you and is now joyous in this life. If I can help you to find yourself, in the self-same act, I find a part of myself.


--------------------
"There is no greater power in heaven and earth than the thought of the son of man. Though unseen by the eyes of the body,yet each thought has mighty strength, even such strength can shake the heavens." -Gospel of the Essenes


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Source]
    #3001783 - 08/13/04 06:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

what I don't get is how you can seriously accept that you are not already enlightened.
I see the regular hide and seek game, not the absence of light.

Quote:

Source said:
Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I realized that it was my choice not to be Awake and Enlightened because I am too afraid of the truth.




I've come to the same realization myself. It sounds like you and I are to a large extent in the same place.

When you get down to it, I think everyone is running from the truth of existence...playing the game of ego as a way to escape from facing the void.




diversionary tactics, you are just slipping in and out of clarity.
being coy about joy etc.


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OfflineSource
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3004261 - 08/14/04 02:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, you are absolutely right. Our natural state is the Clear Mind, enlightenment, nirvana. Therefore the search for (or aversion of) enlightenment is silly...see my sig.

And yet, here I am, feeling anything but enlightened...anything but joy and bliss. Feeling eternally damned. I know it is an illusion, but the illusion of pain is so captivating I can't pull myself out of it. Maybe 'I' will exist in hellish illusion for ever...


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Source]
    #3004458 - 08/14/04 03:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

all we do is expression of what is inside even our self doubt is replay of some practiced self doubt routine.

so any mask can be put on at any time, or any song sung.

in this way the hide and seek game can get quite serious (which mask is real - well are they not all equally real and equally vacuous - mere costumes in the pagentry).

sometimes you like it like that - but sometimes it is too real.


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OfflineSource
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3005711 - 08/15/04 12:15 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, it's all too damn real!

Intersting fact: Did you know the word 'persona' comes from the name of the masks the greeks would wear during theatrical performances?

Sometimes I think I may have chosen a particularly harrowing role to play in this production...'he who sits in outer darkness'. Can't wait to see how it all ends.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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Offlinedmtrypr
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Re: The Nature of the Mind is Clear Light [Re: Source]
    #3009219 - 08/16/04 04:01 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I believe that we create challenges for ourselves so that we may experience our capacity to creatively overcome said challenges. If you are experiencing darkness, it is so that you will be able to fully appreciate the light that will come when you overcome the challenge that you have created/manifested for yourself. You created the mind, you create your thoughts. Try to create different thoughts when you find yourself doubting or denying. The willingness to open yourself up to that inner light comes from you. Your free will is the gatekeeper. Just think, how could you know joy if you never knew sorrow? How could you know light if you never knew dark? How could you know life if you never knew death?


--------------------
"There is no greater power in heaven and earth than the thought of the son of man. Though unseen by the eyes of the body,yet each thought has mighty strength, even such strength can shake the heavens." -Gospel of the Essenes


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