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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Mind meld, anyone?
    #592626 - 03/29/02 07:35 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I dreamed that I consumed 4 g of cubies and 3 g of Syrian rue with a friend.
At one point of the trip I loss total sense of boundaries, my friend was inside of me or me inside of him, or we have become one entity, I had this dream several times with my wife, and the thing is that we all remember the experience the same way, I can't express in words how amazing this experience is, I wonder if any of you dreamers felt the same


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: LOBO]
    #592670 - 03/29/02 09:01 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I've had the experience while awake where I connect with another person's energy and can actually feel what they are feeling in their emotions and body.....this usually occurs when I am healing or protecting someone, or at times when I am banishing a troublesome spirit.......
It's like the two of us mixing and becoming the same person yet we completely remain two people who are "sharing each other".......


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: LOBO]
    #592720 - 03/29/02 10:13 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

People that consume rue often describe a telepathic like feeling. One of the early names for harmine or harmaline (the active alkaloids inside rue) had telepathy in the name before they figured out it had already been named by somebody else.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Seuss]
    #592883 - 03/29/02 01:56 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

In Huston's book "Cleansing the Doors of Perception", he describes his experience in the "Good Friday Experiment" where half of the seminary students were given psilocybin and half were given a placebo. While coming up on the psychedelic, he turned to a fellow student of whom he was sure was tripping as well, and said "Isn't this amazing?" The student to whom he made this comment had received the placebo and was not tripping.

So much for empathy / telepathy. Perception, misperception, who knows? Without a controlled test (I know everyone tires of this statement) we will have the same discussion 30 years hence and none will be the wiser. Anecdotes are interesting, but in and of themselves say very little.


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (03/31/02 11:44 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #592961 - 03/29/02 03:48 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I am willing to take part in tests. It would be interesting, I think the subjects should be
people who believe telepathy could be accomplished so there wouldn't be any psychological
predispositions against it being possible. Skeptics and agnostics could monitor and control
the experiments.


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #593456 - 03/30/02 05:51 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I am not interested in control test or to scientifically validate the experience I just want to know if anyone experience what I did.
If you haven't experienced "mind meld" to give it a name I frankly don't know why you have to make a comment that denies it.


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #593728 - 03/30/02 01:51 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I think you're right Swami, we will have this discussion 30 years from now ......but I'll add that I believe we will have it even if we could "prove" its existence.......differences in personalities I mean.....

I'm not interested in "proving" the existence of such.....I just want to help people and I've seen this happen.....
I can't possiblly take what I have experienced and prove it scientificially......I know what "I" experienced and I'm willing to share it with others......if this sharing helps them.......but to prove this exists is beyond me......I experience things every day that I can not explain but which provide me with accurate information that is useful to me and to others.......these come to me as "feelings" or as a "sense" of something......
How I actually can "feel" a pain in another person's body is something I don't fully understand. Could we line up ten people with only one person having a pain---and could I sense this? I don't know. But I believe there is more at work here than what we can produce in a lab. The people I help are people who are reaching out and who want help. That definitely seems to make some kind of connection.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: LOBO]
    #593793 - 03/30/02 03:24 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I am not interested in control test or to scientifically validate the experience
I have no interest in your lack of interest.

I just want to know if anyone experience what I did.
Yes, Huston did and found it to be misperception. Huston ONLY wrote one of the best-selling books about religion ever and was one of the psychedelic pioneers, right up there with Leary, Mentzer and Alpert. So his observations have no substance?

...I frankly don't know why you have to make a comment that denies it.
No one "has to" make a comment pro or con, but this is a free-form discussion.

For all the Swami detractors here, I do NOT tell people what they can or can't post, yet this is about the hundreth time that I have been censured. Why are the believers in esoterica so petrified of free-thinking?


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (03/30/02 03:45 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
    #593805 - 03/30/02 03:41 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I think you're right Swami, we will have this discussion 30 years from now ......but I'll add that I believe we will have it even if we could "prove" its existence.......differences in personalities I mean.....
Because we MAY have this discussion even if tested, therefore validation is worthless? Your logic escapes me.

I'm not interested in "proving" the existence of such...
So what? Many people would love to see just one mystical concept concretized. You have no interest because you have no curiosity or because you are afraid you will find your concepts to be vaporware?

I just want to help people and I've seen this happen.....
And there is ZERO possibility that you are making incorrect assumptions?

I can't possiblly take what I have experienced and prove it scientificially......I know what "I" experienced and I'm willing to share it with others......if this sharing helps them.......but to prove this exists is beyond me......I experience things every day that I can not explain but which provide me with accurate information that is useful to me and to others.......these come to me as "feelings" or as a "sense" of something......
I lived in Las Vegas for years. Most every gambler is superstitious and plays on their feelings. Their "feelings" funded the Paris, the Billagio, the Mirage, etc. etc. Are their feelings less valid than yours?

Could we line up ten people with only one person having a pain---and could I sense this? I don't know.
How can you not know, if your feelings are authentic?

But I believe there is more at work here than what we can produce in a lab.
Why would a valid phenomena not stand up to scrutiny? A lab? That word has connotations to it. How about someone's living room?

The people I help are people who are reaching out and who want help. That definitely seems to make some kind of connection.
Yes that type of connection works all the time, even when nothing is really happening. This is how fraudulent psychics make a living.



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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #593812 - 03/30/02 03:52 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Why are the believers in esoterica so petrified of free-thinking?

Because it is the IMAGE of free-thinking that is so desirable. Whatever image they initially percieved as being free-thinking (usually something in direct opposition with what they were raised to think) is what they are now trying to achieve. It's like brand recognition: Hippies wear tie-dye, punks wear studded clothing, jocks wear the latest sports shoe, ravers wear baggy jeans that could fit an extra person inside each leg, rednecks wear wrangler's, gangsta's? wear fubu or some other "thug" outerwear, burnouts wear plaid, and so on. The only difference in here is that instead of genre-specific clothing, we have genre-specific thinking...

"Free-thinker" conversation includes: astral projection, aliens, meditation (which is somewhat unfortunate, as this has much usefulness), hmm.. oh yeah, Terrance Mckenna-like "visions" (you know- reptiles, elves, ten-foot bunny rabbits and the like), telepathy, ideas ripped-off from eastern mysticism, religious alternatives to Christianity (and the other abrahamic faiths), blah blah blah....


Before any of you try to lay into me, think about it for awhile. Are you unconsciously grasping onto an IMAGE of free-thinking because you are afraid of the uncertainties that come with real free-thinking?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #593821 - 03/30/02 04:04 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

...burnouts wear plaid, and so on.
*In a whiney voice* But I like my lumberjack shirt...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/19/01
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Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #594318 - 03/31/02 05:44 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

"Yes, Huston did and found it to be misperception. Huston ONLY wrote one of the best-selling books about religion ever and was one of the psychedelic pioneers, right up there with Leary, Mentzer and Alpert. So his observations have no substance? "

Are you Huston, Leary, mentzer or Alpet? No If they were to give me a comment I will respect that because they did some research on the subject, but you did not even experience what I did so you are talking from some one else?s mouth.
My post was simple I wanted to know if any one experience the same thing that?s it.
And yes this is a free form-discussion, and I am just pointing out that you are making a comment not from your personal experience but from some one else?s.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: LOBO]
    #594556 - 03/31/02 12:01 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I am just pointing out that you are making a comment not from your personal experience but from some one else?s.
I did make a comment about the [lack of] authenticity of feelings from personal observation.

In three decades of psychedelic exploration, I have had more than a few mind-blowing experiences with other people. Yet, as amazing as they were, I believe them to all be internal states and not indicative of some mystical union with another human being. I backed up that observation with an indirect quote from Huston.

Self delusion is a popular passtime. I had a male friend who was all hot for this woman. He was sure that had made some initial connection. Turned out that she was a lesbian and had no interest in my friend. Misperception and fantasy abound in us all. Feelings, no matter how powerful, are only indicative of our chemical / emotional state, not outward reality.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #594605 - 03/31/02 01:08 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I believe them to all be internal states...
Yep.
He was sure that he had made some initial connection. Turned out that she was a lesbian...
This has happened to a comrade of mine. Also, a mild version of this happened to me... thank god I didn't make a fool of myself before I realized the truth, that would have sucked. Ever since, I take my instincts with a grain of salt.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #595236 - 04/01/02 05:25 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

First if you read my initial post I made no clamed that this was a spiritual or mystic, or telepathic phenomena.
I called mind meld because of lack other word.
Second, I only describe my experience, and wanted to know if any one else had this experience, more clearly could not be.
The rest you are adding to it.
And for last I am not trying to convince or prove to you or anyone else for that matter anything.
Peace.


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: LOBO]
    #595255 - 04/01/02 06:20 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for saying that out rightly......
What I attempted to share in my posts was that...." yes I have had a similar experience and it has occurred even while not tripping and on a regular basis....."
I had hoped that the information I provided would be helpful to you and might give you some ideas of where look for more information........
As usual though, it seems that the information stream starts to turn into an arguement where its implied that you didn't experience what you know you experienced......


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #595260 - 04/01/02 06:28 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

All I'm going to respond to is......I'm not a psychic.....I don't seek to bring people under my control.....I'm not "fraudulent".......I don't charge people money for services........I don't understand everything that occurs in my life.....and I try to share my experiences with others in hopes of assisting them in their lives.
Have a nice life.......


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
    #595295 - 04/01/02 07:33 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not a psychic.....I don't seek to bring people under my control.....I'm not "fraudulent...
And nowhere in my post did I say that you were.

Basically people who want to believe in some healer or advisor will think that they are getting something out of it, whether or not the advisor had any real insight or wisdom. This is a fact. It is called self delusion.

I merely ask the same question over and over again. After 500 posts, I still cannot get a straight answer. How does one know if one is having an "authentic" experience?

A feeling is insufficent validation as it has been shown to be a faulty measuring device.

Have a nice life.......
Very sincere.



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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: LOBO]
    #595300 - 04/01/02 07:45 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder if any of you dreamers felt the same
Seeks validation...

I am not interested to ... validate the experience
Rejects validation...

Whatever.

I only describe my experience, and wanted to know if any one else had this experience, more clearly could not be.
And I responded directly to your question by providing an experience that someone else had (Huston) where he thought his mind was linked with a fellow tripper. And he admitted that he was wrong in his assessment. More clearly could not be.

Seems your difficulty with me is that I don't agree with your conclusion rather than me being off track in my response.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineInsomniac
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #596187 - 04/02/02 05:03 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

I merely ask the same question over and over again. After 500 posts, I still cannot get a straight answer. How does one know if one is having an "authentic" experience?




Woah! This is uncanny... a few hours ago me and a friend were expressing various thoughts on life and at one point I happened to ask that very same question. From reading your other posts I'm fairly sure I understand where you're coming from on this whole 'delusion' thing, and I even agree with you on many of your points, but I came up with a theory tonight.

If someone is deluding themselves than that would mean that there is some sort of ultimate truth that exists out there that they are ignorant of. Now let's for a second put this idea of an ultimate truth aside and say that we are absolutely FREE beings that just HAPPEN to be here (not for any specific reason) taking part in this phenomenon we call existence. Since ultimately we all create our own model of this existence through our subjective experiences, and since (as stated earlier) we are absolutely free, wouldn't that mean that we are free to choose to experience this life in any way that we feel is possible?

Remember this is just a theory so please treat it as such.


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Insomniac]
    #596216 - 04/02/02 06:36 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

That's a pretty cool theory.....it reminds me of the one that goes something like this.....

There is no reality......only perception.....

According to this theory...which I personally find fascinating...you can't really "prove" anything....
The only thing that is authentic to me is "my perception of the event".....The only thing that is authentic to you is "your perception of the event".....

This is why I don't get into long discussions over differences in opinion....the bottom line is that the only thing authentic is my perception of the experience.......we will never settle an arguement over whether the glass is half full or half empty because the deciding factor is the person looking at the glass.

The glass contains the same amount of water for both believer and unbeliever (or if you prefer, non-believer)......both are working with the same materials and medium but the perception of these experiences allows one to trust and the other to become suspicious.

Some people defend their positions with a violent fury, but I realize that I've found a more peaceful way of life as I look at a glass that "has water in it that I can use".......the half full half empty debate doesn't interest me.....there is no real answer due to the differences in perceptions....
Many times people argue that they are right and they list all the reasons why they are right and everyone who differs with them is wrong.....but it comes back to the fact that they are sharing their perceptions or their experiences.....these are authentic to them but the "proof" of their claims rest in the half full, half empty arguement....and that brings it back to their perception of the event.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
    #596446 - 04/02/02 11:50 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

The only thing that is authentic to me is "my perception of the event".....The only thing that is authentic to you is "your perception of the event".....
This is wishy-washy thinking disguised as some clever philosophical stand.

I am into physical fitness big time. The Sports Supplement industry is worth billions of dollars. In 30 years, I have witnessed dozens of fads come and go and watched the hottest products fade from existence. Not because they are replaced by something better, but because ultimately, they just plain do not work. These products do not stand up under scrutiny.

Yet every generation brings a new crop of "fish"; many proclaiming, "Hey, it works for me!" when unbiased studies show no positive results. Americans are fatter than ever despite all of the HOT NEW weight-loss products.

My point is that perception has NOTHING to do with authenticity. This is the weakest New Age argument that is parroted over and over again. Something real CAN be validated.

The psychedelic era faded for many reasons, but the prime one was: No real change was taking place in the users.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
    #596474 - 04/02/02 12:22 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Lobo,
I've read of similar experiences with others combining cubies and Syrian rue. I am very much
interested in replicating these experiences for myself and I thought it would be facinating to do
some tests to try and determine if there's anything that could be verified. Who knows, you could
be on to something...

Tannis:
"we will never settle an arguement over whether the glass is half full or half empty"

I say that the glass is currently at 50% of it's capacity.


Edited by evolving (04/02/02 12:36 PM)


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #596494 - 04/02/02 12:45 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

The only thing that is authentic to me is "my perception of the event".....The only thing that is authentic to you is "your perception of the event".....
This is wishy-washy thinking disguised as some clever philosophical stand.

I don't see how this is wishy-washy at all. What about relativity? I was under the impression that the notion of absolutism was dispelled long ago. Einstein proved that the reality of time is highly dependent on the observer. By changing your proximity to a massive object or your speed relative to another observer you can drastically alter your perceived time.

I don't really see how your physical fitness example works into this. I think he was talking about that if two people claim to experience a mystical connection (mind meld), then because they perceived it as such, it is true. They cannot prove this claim, nor can you disprove it, but it exists as truth within the minds of the people involved. There is no absolute truth, only relative truth.


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: ]
    #596538 - 04/02/02 01:15 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

....50% capacity, that's cool, I really like that.....
It makes me think along the lines "potential".... and to me potential is a positive out look.......being a believer instead of a cynic.....but it also doesn't take sides either.....it just leaves it kind of open.....pretty cool....


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #596550 - 04/02/02 01:22 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

What....do you miss ripping on Shroomism or something?

Why don't you just present your facts/experiences or whatever, as you understand them and stop knocking the rest of us?

What I post, I post as my experience.......its what I have witnessed first hand and is not taken from a New Age book. This is a discussion to share experiences and ideas....its not a boxing match.....


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #596567 - 04/02/02 01:32 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I'm free on Friday.....wanta go out......I like the way you think........


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
    #596594 - 04/02/02 01:50 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry to dissapoint, but I'm a heterosexual male. Damn, I really should've picked a less feminine-sounding name.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #596621 - 04/02/02 02:12 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

The only thing that is authentic to me is "my perception..."
Using this horrible line of logic, if I perceive that a particular woman wants me to have sex with her then I must be right. Perception is not a valid measurement of authenticity.

I don't see how this is wishy-washy at all.
Not wishy-washy? This mysterious phenomenom cannot be predicted, duplicated nor validated in any way. When none of these criterion can be met, the double-speak abounds.

Tripper A: Lobo has a unique experience that he believes may be a new way of communicating.

Tripper B: Huston, an educated and experienced explorer, believed to have connected with another mind on psilocybin and admitted he was mistaken.

Is there or is there not a possibility that Tripper A was also in error?


What about relativity? I was under the impression that the notion of absolutism was dispelled long ago.
You are going off on a tangent. We are communicating on a regular basis. It is consistent and it works the same way every day (disregarding the occasional equipment glitch). If you are afraid of or don't believe in computers, it still works. Your sex, age, culture, religion don't matter. There is nothing at all wishy-washy about this form of communication. Perception and relativity don't enter into the big picture.


I don't really see how your physical fitness example works into this.
You really don't?

1. A Magic Pill (fungus) may or may not lead to a superior way of connecting to another mind.

2. A Magic Pill (Andro or ?) may or may not lead to a superior body.

Many millions of people have been completely wrong about scenario 2. (If you ever get a chance, look at an old Sear's catalog, say circa 1915. The ads for magic potions are laughable, but nothing has changed in 100 years.)

So neither you nor Tannis nor Lobo can see a POSSIBILITY for the same type of misperception in Scenario 1 as in Scenario 2?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
    #596636 - 04/02/02 02:23 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

What....do you miss ripping on Shroomism or something?
I rip on poor thinking, not individuals. Shroomism presented more than his fair share of non-facts and myths.

Why don't you just present your facts/experiences or whatever, as you understand them and stop knocking the rest of us?
I knocked on some of your concepts, not you personally. There is a HUGE difference. Please don't read my posts if they so disturb you.

There would be no war in the Middle East if both sides used clear methods of thinking, however they lean towards the Tannis-style (even though you are non-violent) method where both sides are perceptually correct with horrific real-world results.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #596642 - 04/02/02 02:28 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Using this horrible line of logic, if I perceive that a particular woman wants me to have sex with her then I must be right. Perception is not a valid measurement of authenticity.

Hot Damn! I must be psychic! I wrote this line before the following Tannis/Ska exchange took place.

Tannis:
I'm free on Friday.....wanta go out......

Ska:
Sorry to dissapoint, but I'm a heterosexual male.

There is that misperception thang happening as predicted. I hate being right all the time.





--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #597352 - 04/03/02 06:04 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Heterosexual male, ------me too!.........Damn, maybe we could just go to a bar and drink.......

Oh, by the way, your posts don't sound feminine, but I did trip over the name.....sorry.....buy you a beer.......


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #597368 - 04/03/02 06:31 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Damn, I knew I was responsible for the middle east thing, I keep telling those people to solve their own problems but they keep calling me and asking me how they should think about all this..........Oh, and I really screwed up.....I also asked out "Sharon" cause I thought he was a girl too.....I guess my "psychic hot line perceptions" just don't extend to sexuality.......

But seriously "Swam....old buddy".....I disagree with some of what you said....like the part about you not attacking personally. Maybe that's not your intent but it does come across that way.
As I said before, I just share my experience and what my opinion of that experience is. I believe people need to make up their own minds. They can believe or disbelieve what I say, but I don't attempt to tell them what to believe or how to think about it.
What I'm saying is that since this is a discussion, if you disagree then, instead of just tearing apart what I or someone else posts, post the truth as you have come to understand it. Point the way and give all of us hope. Present an arguement that "outshines" everything around it. If you have the truth then share it with all of us. Don't piss on the existing parade----show us a better parade. I don't see you pointing the way. I see you tearing at belief systems and saying that you are the measure that all of us must answer to......if we can't prove it to you, then it has no validity.......
With all due respect....I don't consider you the measure of my "faith" or experience. If you get help from what I post, that's great......but I am by no means required to answer to you, or to prove to you, or to convince you of anything.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
    #597534 - 04/03/02 11:00 AM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Damn, I knew I was responsible for the middle east thing,
I don't know if that is humor or the result of a reading disorder. Let's recap:

Tannis
The only thing that is authentic to me is "my perception of the event".....The only thing that is authentic to you is "your perception of the event".....

Swami
There would be no war in the Middle East if both sides used clear methods of thinking, however they lean towards the Tannis-style (even though you are non-violent) method where both sides are perceptually correct with horrific real-world results.

Tannis-style thinking (not Tannis - A HUGE DIFFERENCE!) is where both sides are perceptually correct and this leads to war. Is this really that difficult to follow?


Oh, and I really screwed up.....I also asked out "Sharon" cause I thought he was a girl too.....I guess my "psychic hot line perceptions" just don't extend to sexuality.......
Misperceptions abound everywhere. So again, you agree with me.

But seriously "Swam....old buddy".....I disagree with some of what you said....like the part about you not attacking personally.
Please show one line from this thread that was a personal attack. As in almost every other thread, when a believer cannot logically defend his stance, he points to me instead of my argument.

As I said before, I just share my experience and what my opinion of that experience is.
As do I. See how similar we are?

What I'm saying is that since this is a discussion, if you disagree then, instead of just tearing apart what I or someone else posts, post the truth as you have come to understand it.
A faulty argument "needs" to be torn apart, so that people may see the false underlying structure that supports erroneous thinking. In another thread, NOT ONE person besides the Swam questioned another poster when he stated that the pyramids were built by dolphins from Sirius. (because it was positive and uplifting?) But when I commented on that bit of nonsense, I am the bad guy.

Point the way and give all of us hope. (...but I don't attempt to tell them what to believe or how to think about it. )
No? You just tell me what my mission on the shroomery is? I don't give a damn about hope unless it is the truth. Hope can be very destructive in certain situations. What line from your responses was supposed to give me hope and point the way?

Present an arguement that "outshines" everything around it.
I have on many occasions and it was completely ignored. I notice that my two poignant questions in a response to Ska about the mere possibility for error went completely unresponded to. Instead I take the time replying to your zero content message. (Tannis-style sarcasm is somehow more-uplifting and points the way better than Swami-style sarcasm!)

Don't piss on the existing parade----show us a better parade.
Once again instructing me on my mission.

I see you tearing at belief systems...
As if there was something wrong with that. Perhaps I should support belief systems that keeps the world at each other's throats such as the Middle East where both sides are "right" and firm in their beliefs.

...and saying that you are the measure that all of us must answer to...
*sigh* Tannis I expect more from an intelligent man like yourself. Once again, you can point to no post where I set myself up as any type of measure. Clear-thinking is the measure, not the swami.

Many hundreds of words and half a dozen posts later and you still have not responded unemotionally to a single point that I made.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Registered: 03/14/01
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Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
    #597626 - 04/03/02 12:38 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

mmmm...beer sounds good, thank you :smile:

I think the whole Swami issue has been beaten to death...multiple times in many different threads.  I think we'd work better as a community if we'd accept each other's input more.  After all, we need both kinds of people in the world, the skeptics and the believers.  I think both sides would agree that their "archrivals" are needed in the big picture of things. 

With that in mind, I concede to the fact that perhaps the mind meld was a complete fabrication in the minds of those involved.  However, as I said earlier, nobody can prove it either way.  Therefore, in this case there is no absolute truth, only relative truth.  I think the quest for absolute truth is doomed to failure or frustration because it does not exist.  Better to just live with what you believe.  Question your beliefs obviously (anyone who doesn't is no better than religious martyrs or suicide cultists), but you cannot suspend your beliefs indefinitely until better data comes along, because often times it never will.  Trust in your heart and you will never be disappointed, and in my opinion this is a much better way to live your life than a search for an elusive truth that will never be found.  Although I'm sure that you Swami, will adamantly disagree with this philosophy. 


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #597662 - 04/03/02 01:19 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Trust in your heart and you will never be disappointed, and in my opinion this is a much better way to live your life than a search for an elusive truth that will never be found. Although I'm sure that you Swami, will adamantly disagree with this philosophy.
And you are sure because you think that I disagree with everything?

I have followed my heart and have literally almost been destroyed and am still reeling from the backlash of events based on trust, hope and feeling.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #597665 - 04/03/02 01:21 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

And once again, you're upset because I won't play by your rules or report to you to authenticate what I say as proof of anything.....I really don't have to see it your way.....


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OfflineTannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #597686 - 04/03/02 01:44 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

I was reminded of a month ago when I went home and found a nice red apple on the kitchen table. I picked it up, bit into it and found it to be juicy and delicious....
As I was thinking I realized that in no way could I prove to anyone that the apple exists or that I enjoyed the taste and texture. All I have is my personal experience and no proof.

Alas-----two things----

Will no one believe that apples are good and tasty? Is there no way I can "prove" what I experienced? Alas-----only those who take what I say with trust and discression will ever even attempt to see if an apple taste good.....


Alas #2----Oh where oh where has poor Lobo gone......his post is a battle field......

See you on Friday....beer is on Sharon....he's coming too......maybe all together we can get this middle east stuff settled...........(by the way, he likes your name, doesn't think its to feminine or anything---)

and (seriously) I appreciate this post and others I've read of yours.....


Edited by Tannis (04/03/02 01:48 PM)


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #597723 - 04/03/02 02:31 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

And you are sure because you think that I disagree with everything?

I said I was sure because I remember you saying before that truth is more important than feeling. And now it makes a lot more sense why you take this viewpoint. I am truly sorry if you have been hurt by putting excess faith in your "trust, hope and feeling." However, this is not the only outcome of this philosophy. I find it analagous to falling in love (I don't know if this has anything to do with your traumatic experience or not). You can take the plunge and risk it all for a chance at incomparable beauty and happiness, or you can sit at home safe and comfortable for the rest of your life.

I think by and large the happier people are the ones that decide to take risks. I know people who have wasted their lives doing nothing because they were too afraid to follow their hearts. Putting faith in something you feel deeply could end up being wrong and you could suffer from actions you take based on this false belief, but on the other hand it could fill each day with joy and happiness. I guess it comes down to a fundamental differing in how to live your life. Neither is right, they are just based on each person's past experiences and lessons.

Faith doesn't necessarily lead to pain, but it can if you put too much of yourself into your belief.


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Offlinemindvox
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: LOBO]
    #597805 - 04/03/02 04:18 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

The one who thinks himself equal or inferior or superior
to others is, by that very reason, involved in argument.
But such thoughts as equal, inferior, and superior are
not there in the one who is not moved by such
measurements. Why should a wise person argue with
another, saying: "This is a truth" and "This is a lie"?
If such a one never entertains a thought about equal,
inferior, or superior, with whom is he going to argue?
The sage who has freed himself from dependence on others
and from dependence on words and is no longer attached
to knowledge does not risk the smothering of truth by
engaging in disputes with people.

-Sutta Nipata

From "Buddha Speaks," edited by Anne Bancroft, 2000.
Reprinted by arrangement with Shambhala Publications,
Boston, www.shambhala.com.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: mindvox]
    #597936 - 04/03/02 07:29 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Why should a wise person argue with another, saying: "This is a truth" and "This is a lie"?
Very simple. Because the fool's decision usually have a great impact on the wise man's life; such as in the WOD. Should the wise man roll over and take it up the ass?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #598060 - 04/03/02 10:19 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

Good answer, Swami.



But what if the wise man likes it up the ass?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: ]
    #598069 - 04/03/02 10:35 PM (21 years, 5 months ago)

That is a subject for a whole 'nother thread.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinec_mathimatics
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Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 59
Last seen: 20 years, 12 days
Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
    #1588740 - 05/29/03 12:45 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

My wife and I took 50mg of a drug called AMT (Alpha-Methal Triptamine - recently made illegal but purchasable online for the moment... or so I'm 'told'.)

The first two hours were a bit shaky... upset stomachs and a general anxiety. Towards the end of that initial timeframe my wife began vomiting (she requested I not be with her for one reason or another) and so I trodded off to take my mind off the subject and peek into a 'closet' of marijuana some kid had at the time.

When I opened the door and crouched down to study the plants, my vision melded in and out of hers (she said the same thing) and I began fading back and forth viewing the bathroom through her eyes and the closet through mine - all the while feeling both of us as one entity utilizing two bodies.

I could get way more specific with this incident (14 days worth if you care) but needless to say it was one of the more incredible experiences I've ever had.

I choose not to analyze the experience - it just was, and we both can account for it.

---

Perceiving a subjective reality via subjective objectivity. Why bother using the mind when we have a heart to live through?


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
    #1588753 - 05/29/03 12:52 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

you said it best man

SWAMI - i find you skepticsm humorus, due to YOUR OUR PHYSIC EXPERIENCES. Let me guess, it was your own self dellusions?

What about remote viewing that the goverment did, i believe it was back in the 1960's or 1970's? Was that all fake, junk?


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1588983 - 05/29/03 01:58 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

What about remote viewing that the goverment did, i believe it was back in the 1960's or 1970's? Was that all fake, junk?

Despite all the popular literature and pseudo-scientific / historical TV "documentaries", Stargate, the remote viewing project, was disbanded for ONE SIMPLE REASON: it did not work.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
    #1591424 - 05/29/03 10:07 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Were did you hear this?


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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