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 Tannis
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 Re: Mind meld, anyone?  [Re: Insomniac]
#596216 - 04/02/02 06:36 AM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's a pretty cool theory.....it reminds me of the one that goes something like this.....
There is no reality......only perception.....
According to this theory...which I personally find fascinating...you can't really "prove" anything....
The only thing that is authentic to me is "my perception of the event".....The only thing that is authentic to you is "your perception of the event".....
This is why I don't get into long discussions over differences in opinion....the bottom line is that the only thing authentic is my perception of the experience.......we will never settle an arguement over whether the glass is half full or half empty because the deciding factor is the person looking at the glass.
The glass contains the same amount of water for both believer and unbeliever (or if you prefer, non-believer)......both are working with the same materials and medium but the perception of these experiences allows one to trust and the other to become suspicious.
Some people defend their positions with a violent fury, but I realize that I've found a more peaceful way of life as I look at a glass that "has water in it that I can use".......the half full half empty debate doesn't interest me.....there is no real answer due to the differences in perceptions....
Many times people argue that they are right and they list all the reasons why they are right and everyone who differs with them is wrong.....but it comes back to the fact that they are sharing their perceptions or their experiences.....these are authentic to them but the "proof" of their claims rest in the half full, half empty arguement....and that brings it back to their perception of the event.
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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Posts: 15,413
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 Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
#596446 - 04/02/02 11:50 AM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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The only thing that is authentic to me is "my perception of the event".....The only thing that is authentic to you is "your perception of the event".....
This is wishy-washy thinking disguised as some clever philosophical stand.
I am into physical fitness big time. The Sports Supplement industry is worth billions of dollars. In 30 years, I have witnessed dozens of fads come and go and watched the hottest products fade from existence. Not because they are replaced by something better, but because ultimately, they just plain do not work. These products do not stand up under scrutiny.
Yet every generation brings a new crop of "fish"; many proclaiming, "Hey, it works for me!" when unbiased studies show no positive results. Americans are fatter than ever despite all of the HOT NEW weight-loss products.
My point is that perception has NOTHING to do with authenticity. This is the weakest New Age argument that is parroted over and over again. Something real CAN be validated.
The psychedelic era faded for many reasons, but the prime one was: No real change was taking place in the users.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
#596474 - 04/02/02 12:22 PM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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Lobo,
I've read of similar experiences with others combining cubies and Syrian rue. I am very much
interested in replicating these experiences for myself and I thought it would be facinating to do
some tests to try and determine if there's anything that could be verified. Who knows, you could
be on to something...
Tannis:
"we will never settle an arguement over whether the glass is half full or half empty"
I say that the glass is currently at 50% of it's capacity.
Edited by evolving (04/02/02 12:36 PM)
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skaMariaPastora
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
#596494 - 04/02/02 12:45 PM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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The only thing that is authentic to me is "my perception of the event".....The only thing that is authentic to you is "your perception of the event".....
This is wishy-washy thinking disguised as some clever philosophical stand.
I don't see how this is wishy-washy at all. What about relativity? I was under the impression that the notion of absolutism was dispelled long ago. Einstein proved that the reality of time is highly dependent on the observer. By changing your proximity to a massive object or your speed relative to another observer you can drastically alter your perceived time.
I don't really see how your physical fitness example works into this. I think he was talking about that if two people claim to experience a mystical connection (mind meld), then because they perceived it as such, it is true. They cannot prove this claim, nor can you disprove it, but it exists as truth within the minds of the people involved. There is no absolute truth, only relative truth.
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Tannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: ]
#596538 - 04/02/02 01:15 PM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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....50% capacity, that's cool, I really like that.....
It makes me think along the lines "potential".... and to me potential is a positive out look.......being a believer instead of a cynic.....but it also doesn't take sides either.....it just leaves it kind of open.....pretty cool....
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Tannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
#596550 - 04/02/02 01:22 PM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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What....do you miss ripping on Shroomism or something?
Why don't you just present your facts/experiences or whatever, as you understand them and stop knocking the rest of us?
What I post, I post as my experience.......its what I have witnessed first hand and is not taken from a New Age book. This is a discussion to share experiences and ideas....its not a boxing match.....
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Tannis
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I'm free on Friday.....wanta go out......I like the way you think........
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skaMariaPastora
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
#596594 - 04/02/02 01:50 PM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorry to dissapoint, but I'm a heterosexual male. Damn, I really should've picked a less feminine-sounding name.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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The only thing that is authentic to me is "my perception..."
Using this horrible line of logic, if I perceive that a particular woman wants me to have sex with her then I must be right. Perception is not a valid measurement of authenticity.
I don't see how this is wishy-washy at all.
Not wishy-washy? This mysterious phenomenom cannot be predicted, duplicated nor validated in any way. When none of these criterion can be met, the double-speak abounds.
Tripper A: Lobo has a unique experience that he believes may be a new way of communicating.
Tripper B: Huston, an educated and experienced explorer, believed to have connected with another mind on psilocybin and admitted he was mistaken.
Is there or is there not a possibility that Tripper A was also in error?
What about relativity? I was under the impression that the notion of absolutism was dispelled long ago.
You are going off on a tangent. We are communicating on a regular basis. It is consistent and it works the same way every day (disregarding the occasional equipment glitch). If you are afraid of or don't believe in computers, it still works. Your sex, age, culture, religion don't matter. There is nothing at all wishy-washy about this form of communication. Perception and relativity don't enter into the big picture.
I don't really see how your physical fitness example works into this.
You really don't?
1. A Magic Pill (fungus) may or may not lead to a superior way of connecting to another mind.
2. A Magic Pill (Andro or ?) may or may not lead to a superior body.
Many millions of people have been completely wrong about scenario 2. (If you ever get a chance, look at an old Sear's catalog, say circa 1915. The ads for magic potions are laughable, but nothing has changed in 100 years.)
So neither you nor Tannis nor Lobo can see a POSSIBILITY for the same type of misperception in Scenario 1 as in Scenario 2?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
#596636 - 04/02/02 02:23 PM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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What....do you miss ripping on Shroomism or something?
I rip on poor thinking, not individuals. Shroomism presented more than his fair share of non-facts and myths.
Why don't you just present your facts/experiences or whatever, as you understand them and stop knocking the rest of us?
I knocked on some of your concepts, not you personally. There is a HUGE difference. Please don't read my posts if they so disturb you.
There would be no war in the Middle East if both sides used clear methods of thinking, however they lean towards the Tannis-style (even though you are non-violent) method where both sides are perceptually correct with horrific real-world results.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Using this horrible line of logic, if I perceive that a particular woman wants me to have sex with her then I must be right. Perception is not a valid measurement of authenticity.
Hot Damn! I must be psychic! I wrote this line before the following Tannis/Ska exchange took place.
Tannis:
I'm free on Friday.....wanta go out......
Ska:
Sorry to dissapoint, but I'm a heterosexual male.
There is that misperception thang happening as predicted. I hate being right all the time.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Tannis
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Heterosexual male, ------me too!.........Damn, maybe we could just go to a bar and drink.......
Oh, by the way, your posts don't sound feminine, but I did trip over the name.....sorry.....buy you a beer.......
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Tannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
#597368 - 04/03/02 06:31 AM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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Damn, I knew I was responsible for the middle east thing, I keep telling those people to solve their own problems but they keep calling me and asking me how they should think about all this..........Oh, and I really screwed up.....I also asked out "Sharon" cause I thought he was a girl too.....I guess my "psychic hot line perceptions" just don't extend to sexuality.......
But seriously "Swam....old buddy".....I disagree with some of what you said....like the part about you not attacking personally. Maybe that's not your intent but it does come across that way.
As I said before, I just share my experience and what my opinion of that experience is. I believe people need to make up their own minds. They can believe or disbelieve what I say, but I don't attempt to tell them what to believe or how to think about it.
What I'm saying is that since this is a discussion, if you disagree then, instead of just tearing apart what I or someone else posts, post the truth as you have come to understand it. Point the way and give all of us hope. Present an arguement that "outshines" everything around it. If you have the truth then share it with all of us. Don't piss on the existing parade----show us a better parade. I don't see you pointing the way. I see you tearing at belief systems and saying that you are the measure that all of us must answer to......if we can't prove it to you, then it has no validity.......
With all due respect....I don't consider you the measure of my "faith" or experience. If you get help from what I post, that's great......but I am by no means required to answer to you, or to prove to you, or to convince you of anything.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
#597534 - 04/03/02 11:00 AM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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Damn, I knew I was responsible for the middle east thing,
I don't know if that is humor or the result of a reading disorder. Let's recap:
Tannis
The only thing that is authentic to me is "my perception of the event".....The only thing that is authentic to you is "your perception of the event".....
Swami
There would be no war in the Middle East if both sides used clear methods of thinking, however they lean towards the Tannis-style (even though you are non-violent) method where both sides are perceptually correct with horrific real-world results.
Tannis-style thinking (not Tannis - A HUGE DIFFERENCE!) is where both sides are perceptually correct and this leads to war. Is this really that difficult to follow?
Oh, and I really screwed up.....I also asked out "Sharon" cause I thought he was a girl too.....I guess my "psychic hot line perceptions" just don't extend to sexuality.......
Misperceptions abound everywhere. So again, you agree with me.
But seriously "Swam....old buddy".....I disagree with some of what you said....like the part about you not attacking personally.
Please show one line from this thread that was a personal attack. As in almost every other thread, when a believer cannot logically defend his stance, he points to me instead of my argument.
As I said before, I just share my experience and what my opinion of that experience is.
As do I. See how similar we are?
What I'm saying is that since this is a discussion, if you disagree then, instead of just tearing apart what I or someone else posts, post the truth as you have come to understand it.
A faulty argument "needs" to be torn apart, so that people may see the false underlying structure that supports erroneous thinking. In another thread, NOT ONE person besides the Swam questioned another poster when he stated that the pyramids were built by dolphins from Sirius. (because it was positive and uplifting?) But when I commented on that bit of nonsense, I am the bad guy.
Point the way and give all of us hope. (...but I don't attempt to tell them what to believe or how to think about it. )
No? You just tell me what my mission on the shroomery is? I don't give a damn about hope unless it is the truth. Hope can be very destructive in certain situations. What line from your responses was supposed to give me hope and point the way?
Present an arguement that "outshines" everything around it.
I have on many occasions and it was completely ignored. I notice that my two poignant questions in a response to Ska about the mere possibility for error went completely unresponded to. Instead I take the time replying to your zero content message. (Tannis-style sarcasm is somehow more-uplifting and points the way better than Swami-style sarcasm!)
Don't piss on the existing parade----show us a better parade.
Once again instructing me on my mission.
I see you tearing at belief systems...
As if there was something wrong with that. Perhaps I should support belief systems that keeps the world at each other's throats such as the Middle East where both sides are "right" and firm in their beliefs.
...and saying that you are the measure that all of us must answer to...
*sigh* Tannis I expect more from an intelligent man like yourself. Once again, you can point to no post where I set myself up as any type of measure. Clear-thinking is the measure, not the swami.
Many hundreds of words and half a dozen posts later and you still have not responded unemotionally to a single point that I made.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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skaMariaPastora
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Tannis]
#597626 - 04/03/02 12:38 PM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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mmmm...beer sounds good, thank you 
I think the whole Swami issue has been beaten to death...multiple times in many different threads. I think we'd work better as a community if we'd accept each other's input more. After all, we need both kinds of people in the world, the skeptics and the believers. I think both sides would agree that their "archrivals" are needed in the big picture of things.
With that in mind, I concede to the fact that perhaps the mind meld was a complete fabrication in the minds of those involved. However, as I said earlier, nobody can prove it either way. Therefore, in this case there is no absolute truth, only relative truth. I think the quest for absolute truth is doomed to failure or frustration because it does not exist. Better to just live with what you believe. Question your beliefs obviously (anyone who doesn't is no better than religious martyrs or suicide cultists), but you cannot suspend your beliefs indefinitely until better data comes along, because often times it never will. Trust in your heart and you will never be disappointed, and in my opinion this is a much better way to live your life than a search for an elusive truth that will never be found. Although I'm sure that you Swami, will adamantly disagree with this philosophy.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Posts: 15,413
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Trust in your heart and you will never be disappointed, and in my opinion this is a much better way to live your life than a search for an elusive truth that will never be found. Although I'm sure that you Swami, will adamantly disagree with this philosophy.
And you are sure because you think that I disagree with everything?
I have followed my heart and have literally almost been destroyed and am still reeling from the backlash of events based on trust, hope and feeling.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Tannis
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
#597665 - 04/03/02 01:21 PM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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And once again, you're upset because I won't play by your rules or report to you to authenticate what I say as proof of anything.....I really don't have to see it your way.....
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Tannis
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I was reminded of a month ago when I went home and found a nice red apple on the kitchen table. I picked it up, bit into it and found it to be juicy and delicious....
As I was thinking I realized that in no way could I prove to anyone that the apple exists or that I enjoyed the taste and texture. All I have is my personal experience and no proof.
Alas-----two things----
Will no one believe that apples are good and tasty? Is there no way I can "prove" what I experienced? Alas-----only those who take what I say with trust and discression will ever even attempt to see if an apple taste good.....
Alas #2----Oh where oh where has poor Lobo gone......his post is a battle field......
See you on Friday....beer is on Sharon....he's coming too......maybe all together we can get this middle east stuff settled...........(by the way, he likes your name, doesn't think its to feminine or anything---)
and (seriously) I appreciate this post and others I've read of yours.....
Edited by Tannis (04/03/02 01:48 PM)
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skaMariaPastora
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: Swami]
#597723 - 04/03/02 02:31 PM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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And you are sure because you think that I disagree with everything?
I said I was sure because I remember you saying before that truth is more important than feeling. And now it makes a lot more sense why you take this viewpoint. I am truly sorry if you have been hurt by putting excess faith in your "trust, hope and feeling." However, this is not the only outcome of this philosophy. I find it analagous to falling in love (I don't know if this has anything to do with your traumatic experience or not). You can take the plunge and risk it all for a chance at incomparable beauty and happiness, or you can sit at home safe and comfortable for the rest of your life.
I think by and large the happier people are the ones that decide to take risks. I know people who have wasted their lives doing nothing because they were too afraid to follow their hearts. Putting faith in something you feel deeply could end up being wrong and you could suffer from actions you take based on this false belief, but on the other hand it could fill each day with joy and happiness. I guess it comes down to a fundamental differing in how to live your life. Neither is right, they are just based on each person's past experiences and lessons.
Faith doesn't necessarily lead to pain, but it can if you put too much of yourself into your belief.
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mindvox
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Re: Mind meld, anyone? [Re: LOBO]
#597805 - 04/03/02 04:18 PM (22 years, 5 months ago) |
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The one who thinks himself equal or inferior or superior
to others is, by that very reason, involved in argument.
But such thoughts as equal, inferior, and superior are
not there in the one who is not moved by such
measurements. Why should a wise person argue with
another, saying: "This is a truth" and "This is a lie"?
If such a one never entertains a thought about equal,
inferior, or superior, with whom is he going to argue?
The sage who has freed himself from dependence on others
and from dependence on words and is no longer attached
to knowledge does not risk the smothering of truth by
engaging in disputes with people.
-Sutta Nipata
From "Buddha Speaks," edited by Anne Bancroft, 2000.
Reprinted by arrangement with Shambhala Publications,
Boston, www.shambhala.com.
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