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OfflinePsycheStudent
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Human mind vs body(Re:the self post)
    #1631315 - 06/13/03 02:32 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Our so-called being as we know it in the physical world is comprised of two things, mind and matter. One cannot exist without the other or their is no being. Our bodies are made of the matter that everything in the psysical world is made of. What I meant about our physical body not being the true self as we perceive it to be is: Our bodies are self-contained organisms that house consciousness. Even though I cannot prove it yet, the physical brain is not the mind but the warehouse for our input sensory information and a factory that produces the diagram for our language, art, buildings, and so on. But, the physical brain is not the mind. The mind is our branch of consciousness and is received through the physical brain to operate the human body organism through the manipulation of the brain. The body is the form the mind enters in order to interact with the physical world of time and space. Therefore the human body is not the true self. The true self is our branch of consciousness that has had many physical forms and lifetimes.

As I have come to find, the true purpose for human beings on this planet is a chance to liberate the mind, for what could be a greater purpose for being? We are consciousness evolved, not just life. We have all earned the right to be born human beings, capable of self reflection and divinity. Some humans achieve liberation, many are born again, and many lower their existence to realms unspeakable. If you ask just about anyone who believes in a hell where it is located, they will point down. Our world is levatating in a cosmic void, there is no hell below us. We perceive hell to be down and heaven to be up because it is a higher and lower type of existence. In the universe high and low make no difference. I have found that the only real way to acheive a higher existence is to liberate the mind by means of higher states of consciousness, to acheive knowledge, wisdom, and ultimately enlightenment. The Buddhist religion is the only religion I have found that's purpose is to acheive this goal. Although, the Buddha was able to acheive this by meditation. This is extremely difficult because when average person meditates, the ego holds on for dear life and many people find it hard to block out sensory information coming from the outside world and focus on the inner world of consciousness. Nature knows this, and has given us many consciousness catalyzing agents to help people acheive these higher and divine states of consciousness. We call them "psychedelic" or mind manifesting drugs.

Before modern pharmachology provided us with the endless amount of synthetic pharmaceutical drugs, humanity relied on the the plants whose compounds are useful in many ways and for many reasons. Some made us tired, some keep you alert, psychedelics expanded our mind. If you analyze what happens when one has a psychedelic experience it goes like this: The individual starts to feel anxious from the increased heart rate and activation of the CNS. Then the world as you current know it starts to dissolve before your very eyes, showing the individual that the world as we perceive it can be altered by altering consciousness. This experience hypnotizes the material eyes with colors, patterns, and dissolves the world around you in order to stop incoming sensory information from the outside world and focus on the universe of consciousness. The rest is purely an individual experience that is extremely hard to define because this realm of consciousness reamains virtually unexplored, therefore we have no language to account for what is going on and leads to misunderstanding and misinterpretaions. This is why many people whom have had a psychedelic experience and have felt the supreme religious aspect of the experience escape the experience unenlightened, aside from the fact that most people use these substances as another form of sensory overload pleasure and only pay attention to the visual distortions and color patterns. You can have the experience all you want but you will never derive anything from it unless you understand how to interprate it into life and why this experience exists.

These tools are for the intellectual mind that can perceive what is really happening, not for the person just looking for a new pleasure or some other substance to abuse. This is irresponsible and detrimental to the ultimate achievment of humanity. This irresponsible use of psychedelics is what is hurting humanity most. What's worse is our Government is even more irresponsible than the regular layperson. Look what happened when they discovered the effects of psychedelics. Did they use them to gain insight into our being and to explore the human mind? Nope! They tried to exploit it for any kind of horrible purpose they could find, such as mind control and weapons to render other humans incoherant in order to gain increased power. Then, when they found that this was impossible they rendered psychedelics illegal and placed all of the known 'hallucinogens" on Schedule 1. Imagine if they had acheived their misguided and evil plan for mind control. Do you actually think that they would stop with just weapons? I don't think so. The Government ,currently to some degree, controls your mind right now through television. Many people think that they are immune to this, but are still deeply affected whether they realize it or not. Our Government instills their beliefs and their views and the views and beliefs they want their people to have. They have also used television to take the place of the natural human need for the psychedelic experience whether they consciously realize it or not. Think about it. The average person spends 5 hours a day loaded on TV . About the same duration as the psilocybin experience. If you compare the television experience with the psychedelic experience you will find that they have many similarities. The only differences are that the information derived from TV is seen with the material eyes and not with the eye of the mind, the sensory imput that you view on television has already been prepared for you to make you feel any way they want you to feel, and give you a predetermined point of view that is not truely your own. On the other hand the psychedelic experience is extremely personal, is viewed with the mind, and instills the value of nature and our true place in it. This is a major reason that humanity is in the state that it is currently in.

The Tree of Knowledge has been forbidden and abolished for way too long. Everyday we are one step closer to ecological disaster and all out war between ourselves. We must change. There is no other choice. Things cannot keep heading in the direction we are currently going. We will either kill ourselves and possibly the planet or we will come to terms with our true nature of being and start nurturing the planet from which we arose and stop exploiting it, for without nature what do we truely have? This is where I will leave you for now.


( What I meant about my views being respected was: I am not going to bother sharing my knowledge and ideas if people are just going to look at my post crazy and write negative comments. I simply want these ideas and knowledge to be respected, not followed. I am not seeking blind faith from anyone. I simply wish to exchange good information and ideas with good people that give good feedback. I respect all of the replies, but I do wish for better ones. Remember this is not a competition for who is right of wrong. Let your ideas speak for themselves. Thanks for taking the time to read this.)


Edited by PsycheStudent (06/13/03 04:57 PM)


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InvisibleRebelSteve33
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1631342 - 06/13/03 02:48 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Here's a tip, PsycheStudent. When making a long post like this, it makes it much easier to read if you divide it up into smaller paragraphs.

Peace,

RebelSteve


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Namaste.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: RebelSteve33]
    #1631348 - 06/13/03 02:52 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah... I'm just not going to bother reading that.... sorry.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: Sclorch]
    #1631398 - 06/13/03 03:28 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

will that post enlighten me?


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1631456 - 06/13/03 04:00 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

can somebody read that and sum it up for me?
who knows, there might be some amazing shit in there somewhere and I wouldn't want to miss it.


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OfflinePsycheStudent
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1631475 - 06/13/03 04:12 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Sorry for the long post. I advise anyone interested to print it out. In the future I will try to keep each post more brief and seperate it properly.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1631483 - 06/13/03 04:17 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

you can edit it man.. you should still have time.
i want to read it, too, but it's impossible at this juncture :confused:


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1631969 - 06/13/03 08:03 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"( What I meant about my views being respected was: I am not going to bother sharing my knowledge and ideas if people are just going to look at my post crazy and write negative comments. I simply want these ideas and knowledge to be respected, not followed. I am not seeking blind faith from anyone. I simply wish to exchange good information and ideas with good people that give good feedback. I respect all of the replies, but I do wish for better ones. Remember this is not a competition for who is right of wrong. Let your ideas speak for themselves. Thanks for taking the time to read this.) "-

I'm sorry, but it appears you are trying to control your audience, dominate it even.

You may not always get what you want, but you get what you need. THIS IS REALITY. you'll probably retreat into isolation, blaming others for your own inabilities.

Growth = Change, which can be painfull, Are you up to the challenge?


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OfflinePsycheStudent
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: castaway]
    #1632093 - 06/13/03 09:28 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I am sorry if i have given you the impression that i am " trying to control or dominate my audience". I do not wish to obtain blind faith from anyone. I am simply stating my ideas and sharing some of my insight into our true nature of being. Our world is currenty in a state of emergency. Unless we challenge the way we think and strive for change, we are one step closer everyday to catastrophe.


Edited by PsycheStudent (06/13/03 09:30 PM)


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1632117 - 06/13/03 09:45 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I agree,
and for you to succeed in averting catastrophe you have to be able to communicate. If you fail because you can't communicate with real people, then it's your own fault, not theirs.

I know it sounds cruel but I'm actualy trying to help you here


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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1632197 - 06/13/03 10:58 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I like your thrust but have a few specific quibbles:

I have found that the only real way to acheive a higher existence is to liberate the mind by means of higher states of consciousness, to acheive knowledge, wisdom, and ultimately enlightenment. The Buddhist religion is the only religion I have found that's purpose is to acheive this goal.

Most religions have at their core groups whose aim or methods is/are the same as this.

Christians ---> Gnostics (pure unpolitic Christianity )
Hindus --- > Yogis (see my thread about Kosas in this forum)
Muslims --- >  Sufis
Jews ---> Kabbalists

I don't know much about Chinese religion but I know that Taoism certainly has its higher aspects.

That's not to invalidate your point, just to widen it. :smile:


The rest is purely an individual experience that is extremely hard to define because this realm of consciousness reamains virtually unexplored, therefore we have no language to account for what is going on and leads to misunderstanding and misinterpretaions

There are various attempts at mapping the territory. See Ken Wilber's work on this; also Stan Grof, and a few others within the Transpersonal Psychology field. They are loose maps, but they work. Also, Kaballah, Chakras, Kosas, etc attempt to map various aspects of consciousness - I have encountered/used the latter two systems on psychedelics, but am too new to Kaballah to have applied it practically. Maps are useful for one reason only: if you know where you are, you can navigate to where you want to be. As the sage says, the map is not the territory. A lot of religion has taken corrupted maps as dogma, and this is where it has got snarled.

This irresponsible use of psychedelics is what is hurting humanity most.

I think you're overstating the point here.

The average person spends 5 hours a day loaded on TV .

This is a great point. Personally having stopped watching TV, my mind is about 20x clearer, and I have actual time to do stuff and think. I still watch DVDs..

We will either kill ourselves and possibly the planet or we will come to terms with our true nature of being and start nurturing the planet from which we arose and stop exploiting it, for without nature what do we truely have

Nature is already alien to the majority of our culture. Technology has superseded nature. I would love that Man returns to a natural way of being, but with the numbers of people around it really can't happen - we;ve gone too  far and become too populus. This is killing us, you're right. I have concluded that barring a mass change of consciousness (100th monkey deal) that there will be mass dieoffs within the next 30 years or so.

Even if we wipe ourselves to extinction, I don't think the planet is going anywhere.

Over & out.
 


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Offlinejohnnyfive
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1632222 - 06/13/03 11:28 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Excellent post!

Quote:

  physical world is comprised of two things, mind and matter.




or matter is of the mind, and there's only mind?

Quote:

  Look what happened when they discovered the effects of psychedelics. Did they use them to gain insight into our being and to explore the human mind? Nope! 




We don't know that they weren't studied exstensivly, this is only what they told us, psychedelics can be a psychic catalyst, maybe say geneticly. Ever heard of sourcery?

Quote:

The Tree of Knowledge has been forbidden and abolished for way too long. 




Can i get an amen to that? :grin:



--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflinePsycheStudent
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1632348 - 06/14/03 12:57 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you Johnnyfive


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Invisiblezee_werp
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1632551 - 06/14/03 02:46 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm interested to know why you are so firm in your belief that the mind is seperate from the body, i.e. the mind is not a result of physical processes in the brain but rather you think it is a non-physical spiritual occurence. This seems to be the basis of what your saying, yet you don't back it up with any reasoning.

There is plenty of supporting evidence for the hypothesis that the mind is infact occuring in the brain, that it is an amazingly complex, incomprehendable matrix of neruological happenings, just read any decent recent psychology text book.

A lot of people seem to think that science is anti-life, anti-soul or whatever, and they think that people who are materialists (believe everything is physical) are empty, soul-less etc. They want to externalise the soul and seperate it from our physical being, but who knows why? Maybe they are afraid of death being the end of their existence, so they tag on a label of eternal life to the soul. Perhaps they simply feel that a physical based mind just isn't divine or pure enough?

I agree that there is something amazing, something indescribable and unignorable happening here, with life and conciousness and EVERYTHING. I have had times when I've been overwhelmed by this and thought that there is something definatley more than physical stuff going on here, there has to be a soul or SOMETHING MORE...but now I just realise that everything including that feeling is just as likely to be part of the beautiful, intricate workings of the human nervous system...

Psychedelics are definatley a very valuable helper we have in developing the human race and perhaps turning things around or at least comprehending our reality a little better. But man like that person said above, we have already taken things wayyy too far as a species, we have detached the human race from nature. I mean how many people ever think about the plants and the fields where the potatoes for their chips were grown, or where any of the other ingredients in their heavily processed foods originated. Its just a packaged commodity. Same with meat, etc etc. It is sad but the way the world is going, I think we will have long past the 'critical mass' or critical pollution level threshold by the time we stop and everything goes quiet for a second, then...'oops'...we've fucked the earth.

Anyway I went off on a ramble! What I was mainly wanting to say is that I think that one can feel just as spiritually fulfilled accepting that everything is material as one can by believing in a non-material soul and that life is eternal. Spiritual people need to feel less against science because there is no harm in learning about what is really going on. If scientific discoveries conflict with your original spiritual beliefs, then I think that is an awesome chance to say 'wow'! and maybe change things around a little. I mean you can't expect religions / belief systems which are thousands of years old to still be 100% valid nowadays, although some of them may be. Anyway I sould stop rambling now...I've said enough for one post.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: zee_werp]
    #1633257 - 06/14/03 04:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

j5- or matter is of the mind, and there's only mind?

no, there is both, because matter precedes the human mind. before humans or any single cell organism existed, there was matter.


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1633392 - 06/14/03 05:43 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

What I meant about my views being respected was: I am not going to bother sharing my knowledge and ideas if people are just going to look at my post crazy and write negative comments.

You write what you want freely and others will, too. Respect is not something demanded, but earned. You speak of great spiritual truths, then make this ego-driven and fear-based comment. "Play by my rules or I will withhold these great secrets from you." Think on that.



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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1633413 - 06/14/03 06:01 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Buddhists are whack MCs


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OfflineJameZTheNewbie
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: Dogomush]
    #1633648 - 06/14/03 08:10 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

if the mind is physical y cant the spirit be. just because its made up of certain things doesnt mean it doesnt equal to what it is.


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OfflineMithril
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: PsycheStudent]
    #1634309 - 06/15/03 02:57 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

>>Our so-called being as we know it in the physical world is comprised of two >>things, mind and matter.

I assume you (psychestudent) see things through a dualist perspective, and if so, I'd like to know your explanation how a mental substance can causally interact with a material substance, without resorting to a brute fact explanation, ie. by claiming they JUST DO. One of the assumptions of modern science is that all physical effects have causes in the physical world. I'm just curious to how you get around causal closure without rejecting science.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Human mind vs body(Re:the self post) [Re: JameZTheNewbie]
    #1634353 - 06/15/03 03:15 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

just because its made up of certain things doesnt mean it doesnt equal to what it is.

This is a very deep redundancy. Like a Zen koan, I must meditate on this...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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