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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Lo-Z] * 3
    #29689528 -

Lo-Z said:
fahtster said:
Not kloakk but this is probably the cleanest pan culture I’ve produced… at least the only one I’ve been completely sure about and thought, “that’s gonna do really well.”



Went on to produce this tray


I’ve had plenty that I was unsure about do well tho.  You want fast, even, wispy growth that looks unencumbered.  Watch out for myc that doesn’t grow aerial above the plate surface and lays down.  Too thick myc that’s slow usually means there’s a biofilm under it ime

I also don’t think it’s a stretch to think that some ride along bacteria can be in a symbiotic relationship with mycelium.  These organisms aren’t in anywhere close to sterile conditions out in the wild so maybe some bacteria are welcomed by the myc to help break food down (nichrome has said as much as a possibility). 

Could be that the bacteria hitches a ride helping them spread.  Could also be a way for the mycelium to keep their lineage in check… millions of spores are released and the weaker ones lose the battle of symbiotic balance being taken over by the bacteria whereas, the strong, fast and aggressive offspring stay in balance with the relationship and live long enough to spore.

Just spitballing but with that being said, if you’ve done everything you can to get a culture clean and it still seems slightly dirty but aggressive, maybe you just need to send it and see how it goes.  I have a lot of borderline cultures where Ive done that and they turn out well.  Maybe the first flush is a bit rough but get better in the conservative flushes.

When I do send cultures to grain that I’m not sure of, I’ll pay close attention to what the jar looks like fully colonized.  I let my jar go for 2-3 days after colonization to see how they act.  You really can’t tell much from a colonizing jar.  They can be very deceiving.  The growth in that 2-3 days after 100% tells me if I should even send the jar to bulk. 

This is what I look for in those jars.. again, even growth without signs of stress


That myc growing up the jar says a lot.  The myc in the grains is also even.  There’s no thick matted clumps or bruising or yellowing/gray colors.

This jar has all the things I don’t want to see.  Along with, metabolites


I won’t even waste the materials to send that because 9 out of 10 times, it won’t even make it past colonizing and if it does, it probably won’t flush out.  Metabolites and heavy bruising are the big ones for me.  I see those and it’s a definite no send. 




Alright Professor Faht (Baba, Kloakk, and Puff. Feel free to chime in here)

This is a clone I took of the bacterial tub that stuck I out long enough to give me fruits.

Faht, you stated "Watch out for myc that doesn’t grow aerial above the plate surface and lays down"

So with the way this Myc is starting, I should take this as a good sign yeah?  This is on water agar. about 2 days old so growth is going fairly fast (relative to the original plate/ culture it came from) Light, wispy, fast, and aerial.






Well.. clones in WA is a little different.. you’re not going to be able to tell much until you put it on a nutrient plate.

And even on a nute plate, I would wait til it’s grown out to the size of at least a US quarter before making any calls on it.. I prefer a little bigger. 

It’s not a bad start tho.  I’d let it get plenty away from that center before taking it to another plate.  Aerial myc directly off the clone tissue doesn’t tell you much besides it’s a big chunk of mycelium.  That aerial myc could easily be covered in bacteria

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] * 1
    #29689558 -

I went with WA based on what Baba said

Baba Yaga said:
Taking inner stem samples gives you better starting material but you can drop a pan pin to agar no problem, or any part of the mushroom like stem
sections. Water agar will reduce bacterial growth. I used to wash samples in a very mild bleach solution before dropping them to WA but
stopped because the sample took longer to recover. They usually bounce back pretty fast.








And I wiped them all with H2o2,not a soak but wiped.


So you typically run clones on nutrient agar? what % are you running for pans??


Edit - I plan on running this to that quarter/ half dollar size before making any sort of assumption on health, and then run it through a cabin regardless of what I think about it just to try to purify all that i can.


--------------------
A Seeker Seeking,,, Things...

Lo-Z Things
State of The Grow :awesomenod: | Lo-Z's Forever Print Tek :print:
Brown Rice Grain Prep (Step by Step) :syringe: | My Favorite Cow PooPoo Sub Tek :poop:

Things that saved Lo-Z
PANS IN TUBS :mushroom2:
Rescuing Your AIO Kit :lifesaver:

Edited by Lo-Z (10/07/26 08:35 PM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Lo-Z]
    #29689764 -

I did use WA in those images but I do prefer BRF pucks these days and sometimes go for aerial myc using a dental pick with a bend tip

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SignedinStranger]
    #29689767 -

SignedinStranger said:




First flush of the unmodified worm castings tub is about finished. I still haven't been able to dial in a nice even canopy or uniform, straight growth, but this is probably the best they have looked so far. I really just want to see larger caps, although I am not at all disappointed with how these turned out, considering the low airflow and temperature.




Nice! :awesomenod:

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] * 1
    #29689774 -

Baba Yaga said:
SignedinStranger said:




First flush of the unmodified worm castings tub is about finished. I still haven't been able to dial in a nice even canopy or uniform, straight growth, but this is probably the best they have looked so far. I really just want to see larger caps, although I am not at all disappointed with how these turned out, considering the low airflow and temperature.




Nice! :awesomenod:



:whathesaid: 

What spawn ratio did you use?  How well do you mix your grains.. do you do it by just mixing the grains around in the substrate in the tub with your hand?

I ask because I’ve found that pinning tends to happen where there’s grains in the substrate.  That fruiting pattern looks like there’s a bunch of “veins” of grains running through the substrate and that’s where the majority of pinning is taking place. 

If you want more coverage, use more spawn.  If you want more evenly spaced pins and the entire substrate utilized, mix very well.  I put my spawn and sub in a 2.5 gallon bag and shake the shit out of it until all the grains are evenly mixed and then pour it into the tray/tub.  You can use a lidded SB as well if you don’t want to use a bag

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: fahtster]
    #29689793 -

fahtster said:
I put my spawn and sub in a 2.5 gallon bag and shake the shit out of it until all the grains are evenly mixed and then pour it into the tray/tub.  You can use a lidded SB as well if you don’t want to use a bag




I have to do this as well, can't count how often I spawned, leveled and finished off the sub with a top layer just to see nests of grain sitting on the bottom of the tub. :facepalm:

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] * 1
    #29690284 -

Baba Yaga said:
Where I am it's pretty windy and dry in summer and this got worse in the last 10 years. Makes it a real challenge to establish new trees / plants.
When I put spent or non productive pan subs on either the compost pile or bury them in a garden I either cover them with some straw or use what ever
lies around the compost like grass clippings, leaf litter, twigs and so on and it gets a spritz with the hose in the mornings. This helps to break the
wind and to prevent the substrate from drying up. The fruits do still get a beating but enough humidity is present to get something out although I
hardly pick any. I hope one day they will pop up from the compost by themselves.








Beautiful mulch grow, Baba! Same here - it rarely rains anymore and when it does, it's immediately followed by strong dry winds which doesn't give the more delicate mushrooms any chance.

It sucks but with the disaster we're facing PLUS the blatant deforestations and water removal from the land... I'm afraid it's only gonna get worse.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Azule] * 2
    #29690311 -

Azule said:
My first pan pins :smile:




Second tray also started pinning. And it looks like aquarium heater/aquarium pump tek works. Although probably moisture in the middle is not high enough as pins appears mostly on the edges …

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Adas] * 2
    #29690332 -

@Fahtser - noted on the grains, it is very likely that explains the fruiting gaps. I mix by hand pretty well but like Baba said, I still notice clumps of grains in certain spots all the time. I always try to leave the substrate as light & fluffy as possible, but also evenly distributed, so I like to mix thoroughly and then shake the tub back and forth to level everything out, at which point I do not touch the sub again except to lightly pat the surface with a spatula, to smooth everything out. The shaking is probably causing surface clumping, so I will pay attention to that next time.

I eyeball my ratios, but I just got the tape measure and calculator out and it was about a 1 to 3 grain to spawn ratio.

I also remembered my WC sub ratios were slightly off from what I said earlier. After I initially mixed the coir, verm, and WC, I was squeezing a handful of sub to test for field capacity and I could not squeeze out a single drop, even though the texture felt really nice and should have been about at FC based on the feel and the maths. Anyway, I started adding more and more water and the texture started getting really dense and muddy, yet I still couldn't squeeze a drop out. I figured this was just a WC thing and I had exceeded FC so I added more coir and verm back in until I got the texture back to where it was initially. All that is to say, I think my ratios were more like 1 level cup worm castings to 40 g dry coir and then 1.25 cups verm for every 100 g dry coir.

One thing that has made a big difference for me is switching to really fine verm instead of the coarse stuff. I noticed the difference immediately, just from the texture of the substrate. With the fine stuff, the texture is almost sandy. Like if you've ever felt the soil near a beach, where the soil actually is sandy and has a really light and airy texture.

Last pic prior to harvesting last night, without the lid:

Edited by SignedinStranger (10/08/26 01:35 PM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: SignedinStranger]
    #29690528 -

I have a clone culture of pan bisporus on agar but it seems no matter how many transfers or new plate I make I get these yellow/orange dots near the start of the culture everytime. Is that what bisporus is supposed to be like or its some kind of contam that doesnt want to go away.

3 different plates up close.





What do you think? Is it just some normal metabolites that they make?


--------------------

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris]
    #29690548 -

Anomalocaris said:
I have a clone culture of pan bisporus on agar but it seems no matter how many transfers or new plate I make I get these yellow/orange dots near the start of the culture everytime. Is that what bisporus is supposed to be like or its some kind of contam that doesnt want to go away.

3 different plates up close.





What do you think? Is it just some normal metabolites that they make?



It doesn't have to be bacteria, but with Bisporus it's the only time I've seen it. Have you tried a cabin?


--------------------
“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Kloakk]
    #29690573 -

Do you mean that you have seen it on bispos or that you have never seen it with them?


--------------------
I've got skills, they don't know where to use me
I'm like the best dressed guy at the nude beach
Nice to meet you!

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris] * 2
    #29690719 -

The brown discoloration does happen with bisporus and should not be a problem, below are a few quotes regarding this phenomenon.

I would go ahead and run one of these plates on grain and fruit while you keep working on the other cultures. If it all works out then you know for sure that this is not a problem.


kirkeng said:
worynox said:
Has anyone kept their bisporus agar dishes longer and got these brown spots/discoloration after a while? I have some other non-bisporus strains running in parallel for the same time and none of them have these or have I ever seen it before. Or is this just plain contam?





Mine will discolor like this when they get old, I’ve yet to see it be an issue though. Cyans and cambos will look much different when old, seems to be a bisporus specific thing.





kirkeng said:
Baba Yaga said:
Has anyone ever seen bisporus discolor? I have rust brown spots appear two weeks or so after full colonization. It's not the mycelium turning color but the verm/brf. Any clues?





I have seen this in older cultures on agar, I think I have a plate where it shows somewhere in my office, I’ll look tomorrow for it and report back if I find it. My last clone I ran showed discoloration in red dots, though I think the discoloration showed up later. I’m usually running cultures before they grow out much and I don’t recall ever seeing it until the plate is mostly grown out.

All that being said I can’t recall ever seeing it outside of an agar plate… I’ll also check my older tubs tomorrow to see if that rust has shown anywhere.




Baba Yaga said:
Thanks man, just had a look at the label on the pucks and it said inoclulated on Oct. 17 so this turned up about 18 days after full colonization. I remember seeing the rust color appear first right around the transferred agar piece. The agar plates from the same transfer session are looking all normal so far.

Your comment is reassuring as it doesn't look like any mold and bacteria wouldn't spread like that on BRF I suppose. Would like to see your plate....oh wait....I just remembered seeing a spot like this on one of the germination plates......Cool, I had it still sitting on the kitchen bench.


This one is 5 weeks old





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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PuffM4gicDr4gon]
    #29690749 -

I've got my first shoebox of pans coming in, these are at 5 days since spawn. Faht's coir/verm/worm castings mix plus 222 ferts, it's cooled off a lot here so running around 19C temp wise.

I'm going Baba style "monotub", while doing shoebox and Faht's magic mix, so not really following a tek?

Question is about casing. I know Baba goes both ways, general idea is pro casing. It's hard to get peat where I am if you don't want a pallet of it. I have coir, verm, sand and calcium hydroxide. Also have a bag of reptile stuff coming that's apparently peat and sand.

Any recommendations how to proceed when we go all white would be all-right :takingnotes:



--------------------

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: PuffM4gicDr4gon] * 1
    #29690787 -

PuffM4gicDr4gon said:
Do you mean that you have seen it on bispos or that you have never seen it with them?



I've seen it and a cabin removed it, never sent a pigmented plate to grains though :strokebeard:


--------------------
“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga]
    #29690794 -

Baba Yaga said:
The brown discoloration does happen with bisporus and should not be a problem, below are a few quotes regarding this phenomenon.

I would go ahead and run one of these plates on grain and fruit while you keep working on the other cultures. If it all works out then you know for sure that this is not a problem.


kirkeng said:
worynox said:
Has anyone kept their bisporus agar dishes longer and got these brown spots/discoloration after a while? I have some other non-bisporus strains running in parallel for the same time and none of them have these or have I ever seen it before. Or is this just plain contam?





Mine will discolor like this when they get old, I’ve yet to see it be an issue though. Cyans and cambos will look much different when old, seems to be a bisporus specific thing.





kirkeng said:
Baba Yaga said:
Has anyone ever seen bisporus discolor? I have rust brown spots appear two weeks or so after full colonization. It's not the mycelium turning color but the verm/brf. Any clues?





I have seen this in older cultures on agar, I think I have a plate where it shows somewhere in my office, I’ll look tomorrow for it and report back if I find it. My last clone I ran showed discoloration in red dots, though I think the discoloration showed up later. I’m usually running cultures before they grow out much and I don’t recall ever seeing it until the plate is mostly grown out.

All that being said I can’t recall ever seeing it outside of an agar plate… I’ll also check my older tubs tomorrow to see if that rust has shown anywhere.




Baba Yaga said:
Thanks man, just had a look at the label on the pucks and it said inoclulated on Oct. 17 so this turned up about 18 days after full colonization. I remember seeing the rust color appear first right around the transferred agar piece. The agar plates from the same transfer session are looking all normal so far.

Your comment is reassuring as it doesn't look like any mold and bacteria wouldn't spread like that on BRF I suppose. Would like to see your plate....oh wait....I just remembered seeing a spot like this on one of the germination plates......Cool, I had it still sitting on the kitchen bench.


This one is 5 weeks old







Ok thx hopefully its all good


--------------------

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Kloakk]
    #29690795 -

Kloakk said:
Anomalocaris said:
I have a clone culture of pan bisporus on agar but it seems no matter how many transfers or new plate I make I get these yellow/orange dots near the start of the culture everytime. Is that what bisporus is supposed to be like or its some kind of contam that doesnt want to go away.

3 different plates up close.





What do you think? Is it just some normal metabolites that they make?



It doesn't have to be bacteria, but with Bisporus it's the only time I've seen it. Have you tried a cabin?




didnt try a cabin yet


--------------------

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris] * 1
    #29690856 -

Anomalocaris said:
didnt try a cabin yet



It's a great tool in my opinion :awesomenod:


--------------------
“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Anomalocaris] * 1
    #29690937 -

If you happen to run the culture through a cabin and / or getting it on grain and fruit then please keep a record and post results as this is valuable information.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Baba Yaga] * 1
    #29691091 -

sir yes sir


--------------------

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