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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #29679109 -

To think he's working for free is an admission of having a cultish view.

Like, to ignore the billions hes made?
lowbrow said:
John F Kennedy did the same thing. Trump is following in great footsteps.


John F Kennedy put his assets in a blind trust, trump has not.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: lowbrow] * 2
    #29679112 -

lowbrow said:
John F Kennedy did the same thing. Trump is following in great footsteps.



I like presidents that aren't ignorant pedophiles.

enjoy your record high gas prices on your way to buy some record high priced groceries. just tell them you don't have TDS and ask for the discount pricing for real patriots.

lol USA USA USA

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: dinosaurs] * 1
    #29679118 -

lowbrow said:
John F Kennedy did the same thing. Trump is following in great footsteps.


I don't idolize or make constant excuses for JFK. I would personally say JFK was a pretty shitty president. Biden's family was also involved in shady dealings that should land people in a pillory.

But in both cases the scale of clear and blatant corruption is incomparable by magnitudes.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: PatrickKn]
    #29679206 -

PatrickKn said:
lowbrow said:
John F Kennedy did the same thing. Trump is following in great footsteps.


I don't idolize or make constant excuses for JFK. I would personally say JFK was a pretty shitty president. Biden's family was also involved in shady dealings that should land people in a pillory.

But in both cases the scale of clear and blatant corruption is incomparable by magnitudes.


80% of Epsteins political funding went to the Democrats, mostly to Bill and Hilary Clinton. It's all of them. I don't see how Trump unusually corrupt. He's just unusually vocal and frank about it.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: dinosaurs]
    #29679207 -

dinosaurs said:
lowbrow said:
John F Kennedy did the same thing. Trump is following in great footsteps.



I like presidents that aren't ignorant pedophiles.

enjoy your record high gas prices on your way to buy some record high priced groceries. just tell them you don't have TDS and ask for the discount pricing for real patriots.

lol USA USA USA


gas prices were higher during COVID, and correcting for inflation they were higher during COVID. shit during the 2008 financial crisis gas was almost hitting 4$. Correcting for inflation that is higher.

https://www.inflationtool.com/adjusted-prices/us-gasoline

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: AlChemicalResearch] * 1
    #29679216 -

AlChemicalResearch said:
PatrickKn said:
lowbrow said:
John F Kennedy did the same thing. Trump is following in great footsteps.


I don't idolize or make constant excuses for JFK. I would personally say JFK was a pretty shitty president. Biden's family was also involved in shady dealings that should land people in a pillory.

But in both cases the scale of clear and blatant corruption is incomparable by magnitudes.


80% of Epsteins political funding went to the Democrats, mostly to Bill and Hilary Clinton. It's all of them. I don't see how Trump unusually corrupt.


Literally doesn't address any points I brought up in the context of what was being replied to, possibly disingenuously so. The numbers speak for themselves.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: PatrickKn]
    #29679218 -

PatrickKn said:
AlChemicalResearch said:
PatrickKn said:
lowbrow said:
John F Kennedy did the same thing. Trump is following in great footsteps.


I don't idolize or make constant excuses for JFK. I would personally say JFK was a pretty shitty president. Biden's family was also involved in shady dealings that should land people in a pillory.

But in both cases the scale of clear and blatant corruption is incomparable by magnitudes.


80% of Epsteins political funding went to the Democrats, mostly to Bill and Hilary Clinton. It's all of them. I don't see how Trump unusually corrupt.


Literally doesn't address any points I brought up in the context of what was being replied to, possibly disingenuously so. The numbers speak for themselves.



I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was agreeing with you. they're all corrupt.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: AlChemicalResearch] * 2
    #29679244 -

Well I was pointing out that Trump is unusually corrupt, and in the post that preceded it pointed out various examples from just last year alone. Wouldn't really say that's in agreement by any stretch.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: PatrickKn]
    #29679292 -

PatrickKn said:
Well I was pointing out that Trump is unusually corrupt, and in the post that preceded it pointed out various examples from just last year alone. Wouldn't really say that's in agreement by any stretch.


george bush jr and dick cheney started 2 wars in the middle east that cost the american taxpayer anywhere from 5 tillion USD to 12 trillion USD and gave companies owned by their families to get the military contracts to do that. They made well over 2.2 billion dollars and this was when a million dollars was a lot of money. Bush JR privatized FCC contracts which meant the news started to need to turn a profit to afford the license. That allowed journalism to be bought, which people in his administration did.

And let's be honest, Jr and Dick were probably at least aware the attacks were going to happen, probably directed it to happen.

Bush Jr signed the PATRIOT Act into law.


In no world is Trump more corrupt than the Bush family.


I'm not going to go into everything Obama, Clinton, Reagan, Ford, Nixon, etc etc etc did. You should read about Ulysses S Grant if you want to see corruption.

Trump is just not subtle with it, plus the media hates him. So you hear about it more.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: AlChemicalResearch] * 1
    #29679302 -

What the fuck? Bad is ok cause somebody else did a bad thing?  Trump is doing bad things and you are running cover and claiming that that gives everybody freedom to vote for him.  It is the people that point out his bad that are making others voting for him an ok thing.  Trump does bad in every area at once and nobody ever did that in my memory and I was alive during nixon.


Sorta reminds me of the trump impeachment where they tried to say one sentence put in his speech was more important than the whole speech.  I don't blame them for only wanting to look at one thing in a effort to hide the truth but that wouldn't make it the truth.

Edited by gww (09/26/26 08:38 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: AlChemicalResearch] * 1
    #29679320 -

AlChemicalResearch said:
PatrickKn said:
Well I was pointing out that Trump is unusually corrupt, and in the post that preceded it pointed out various examples from just last year alone. Wouldn't really say that's in agreement by any stretch.


george bush jr and dick cheney started 2 wars in the middle east that cost the american taxpayer anywhere from 5 tillion USD to 12 trillion USD and gave companies owned by their families to get the military contracts to do that. They made well over 2.2 billion dollars and this was when a million dollars was a lot of money. Bush JR privatized FCC contracts which meant the news started to need to turn a profit to afford the license. That allowed journalism to be bought, which people in his administration did.

And let's be honest, Jr and Dick were probably at least aware the attacks were going to happen, probably directed it to happen.

Bush Jr signed the PATRIOT Act into law.


In no world is Trump more corrupt than the Bush family.


I'm not going to go into everything Obama, Clinton, Reagan, Ford, Nixon, etc etc etc did. You should read about Ulysses S Grant if you want to see corruption.

Trump is just not subtle with it, plus the media hates him. So you hear about it more.


Just to be clear, Lowbrow said Trump is working for free. I said he isn't, that he's using the office to pad his pockets and doing it out in the open, and I listed how. Nothing since then has addressed any of that. "They're all corrupt" isn't a response to it, it's a change of subject.

On Bush and Cheney, I'd concede most of that. The Iraq contracting was rotten. The war was sold to the US on bullshit public intelligence, the reconstruction contracting was a feeding trough, and Halliburton was at the front of the line. KBR got a no-bid contract to restore Iraqi oil with a $7 billion ceiling, an Army Corps email said the award was coordinated with the VP's office, Pentagon auditors questioned over a billion dollars in charges, and KBR took in tens of billions over the decade. Cheney had been the CEO. He was still collecting deferred salary from Halliburton through 2005 and still held stock options, and the CRS said at the time that both count as financial interests. None of that is clean.

But there's a difference between that and what's going on now, and it isn't a subtle one. Cheney's ongoing Halliburton money while in office was salary he'd already earned. Bush's assets sat in a blind trust. And neither of them ever came anywhere near a billion dollars. Bush was worth around $20 million, mostly from selling his Rangers stake in the 90s. Cheney was worth tens of millions, mostly from before 2000. Halliburton made billions off Iraq, but neither Bush nor Cheney did themselves that we can clearly identify. Not defending either of them, would readily throw them in pillories as well.

Grant is actually the best example of the difference. His administration was rotten, his Secretary of War resigned over kickbacks, his own private secretary got caught up in the Whiskey Ring, yet Grant himself died broke, finishing his memoirs on his deathbed so his family would have something. That's what corruption around a president looks like, but not necessarily a sitting president taking a direct stake in the corruption itself. Trump's version is very much Trump paying off Trump.

There's no blind trust for example. The trust holding his businesses is run by his sons and he can pull money out of it whenever he wants. The family business has kept operating and has continued doing deals with foreign governments and with people who put their businesses in front of Trump's administration.

To be clear with the context of the conversation, it's not that he's "less subtle" than the Bushes. It's that the one thing lowbrow praised him for, not taking money for the job, is the thing he's doing more of than anyone in American history ever has. He takes the $400,000 because the law says he has to, and then he takes billions on top of it, and then claims at rallies that he doesn't take a salary. That was my whole reply to lowbrow, and none of the whataboutism has really touched on that.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: PatrickKn]
    #29679327 -

Why would somebody who doesnt even take a salary try to use the office to make money, not only is that illegal but it just doesnt line up with the psychology of such an individual, they would happily take the 400,000 on top of anything else.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: lowbrow] * 2
    #29679329 -

Trunp did use his office to make billions.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: sudly]
    #29679347 -

sudly said:
Trunp did use his office to make billions.


Lets steelman your position.  Trump turned down a 400,000 dollars salary but still went ahead and ‘made billions’ illegally while in office, correct?


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: lowbrow]
    #29679349 -

"Why would someone who doesn't take a salary try to make money off the office," is an appeal to incredulity. The fact that you personally can't picture him doing it isn't evidence that he didn't, and it's a bit of a moot point anyway when none of this requires imagination. It's all listed in his own federally mandated income disclosure.

And if we're going to talk psychology, he does receive the salary, as his disclosure shows. Donating $400k of it to your own offices while taking in $2.2 billion works out to about 0.02% of his income. If your read on his character is based on him disregarding what is pocket change in comparison to his real income streams, maybe it's worth looking at that other 99.98%. But perhaps you have a different way of reasoning that one I'm not aware of.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: PatrickKn]
    #29679353 -

Is your steelman the same as sudly’s?


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: lowbrow] * 2
    #29679360 -

Well your steelman isn't actually a steelman, because I argued that he didn't actually turn down any salary as seen in his own financial reporting, and because I never actually said anything was done illegally. That actually makes it a strawman rather than a steelman, and from two different avenues.

Unfortunately the reality is that most of what he's doing is perfectly legal, because the president is exempt from the conflict of interest laws that every other federal official has to follow, which is kind of the whole problem. The Supreme Court also ruled that former presidents have broad criminal immunity for official acts taken while in office, which most of his corrupt dealings arguably fall under even though he's placed himself in a position to profit from them directly.

But yeah, it's fallacious to assume someone who would willing give up their salary would not enrich themselves through other means. Despite that fallacious logic, he actually has received a salary, and has objectively and clearly enriched himself to the tune of billions by his own admission and by his own reporting, so I don't really know what it is you're arguing exactly.

Edited by PatrickKn (09/26/26 11:23 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: AlChemicalResearch]
    #29679370 -

AlChemicalResearch said:
dinosaurs said:
lowbrow said:
John F Kennedy did the same thing. Trump is following in great footsteps.



I like presidents that aren't ignorant pedophiles.

enjoy your record high gas prices on your way to buy some record high priced groceries. just tell them you don't have TDS and ask for the discount pricing for real patriots.

lol USA USA USA


gas prices were higher during COVID, and correcting for inflation they were higher during COVID. shit during the 2008 financial crisis gas was almost hitting 4$. Correcting for inflation that is higher.

https://www.inflationtool.com/adjusted-prices/us-gasoline


except then they were high for an unavoidable reason.  this time they are high because president fucks-little-kids started a completely unnecessary war that everyone for the past 30 years has advised against.

diesel prices are currently the highest of all time and the trucks and ships that move all food and other produces use... diesel.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: dinosaurs]
    #29679380 -

The gas prices actually dropped quite dramatically during the first part of covid due to lack of demand.  Pent up demand kicked in after the vaccination became widely available.

Edited by gww (09/26/26 11:20 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #29679381 -

lowbrow said:
sudly said:
Trunp did use his office to make billions.


Lets steelman your position.  Trump turned down a 400,000 dollars salary but still went ahead and ‘made billions’ illegally while in office, correct?


Forgoing or donating a salary is what you do when you have enough wealth to live off loaning against your assets.

And it seems to make people gush over him? Like how Elon gave himself a 1 dollar salary, it seems to fool people who dont look into it, into thinking the billionaires are altruistic or something..

The legality of trumps cryptocoin and investment portfolio as it relates to insider trading is very questionable, but officially he hasn't made billions illegally. And I didnt say he had, so thats a weird strawman, not a steelman.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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