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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #29075816 -

mushboy said:
:josex:


This was my favorite scene from Sonic 3


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
The 7 Edicts of Mushroom Cultivation as Decreed by Smellyhobbit

:kodama:


Anyone can get a canopy. But can you get what you want?

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #29075822 -

It's easy to take what we've learned for granted. The shroomery has come a very long way in the last 10 years. Josex is a real one, for sure.

Stipe-n Cap said:
You guy's have really nailed the visual cues for contamination, great work. Methodically removing all possible vectors for contamination is what I like to see people getting on board with.

Warm water soaks, fermentation, soaking cereal grains, anaerobic prep/wet storage, filthy grains,  etc.

All of those things and probably a couple that I'm not thinking of atm will certainly impact bioburden and the presence of secondary products that will definitely negatively influence your cultures.

Grains have their own species specific microbiome which will respond to environmental changes in a way that either favors survival by triggering endosporulation to survive unfavourable conditions like warm, fementing and increasingly anaerobic water baths; or by producing chemical biproducts that remain intact post cycle that are harmful to mycelium.

Grain surfaces are dynamic often living environments, more than what meets the eye.

Keep up the good work everyone, I quietly pop in from time to time to see what you're all up to ; )

Hindsights BLIS post was quite good, thanks for that :thumbup:


We've all done a lot of work and I'm pretty vocal about it. I get that people take it like I'm an abrasive ass but I hate to see things tend to go backwards at times when it was such a grind to move forward.

We also learned from these threads that grains don't have any significant R value, they respond the same when cycled, verified by self contained biological indicator ampoules.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27804814#27804814

The grain microbiome and chemistry will definitely effect GWA.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #29075971 -

I really like Josex' posts, and have been saved more than once by the Josex poke. And yes, I have been raised with the endospores too, everything that went wrong was always endospores (while shooting entire sporeprints in jars of wet grain, lol). I was just taken aback by his belief in them at the time he started that thread. And I guess even more by the notion that clear LC is by definition clean while agar is hard to judge. It's cool to see how young the current status quaestionis is...
I feel stupid for not seeing the big picture with GWA, having read Rachel Carson (and her ideas on the accumulation of toxins) and having fiddled around with Claviceps / Gloeotinia a lot in the past ('discovering' the astounding amount of species that live in a single ear of grain).
Thanks for sharing man. It was a really interesting read.

I am really confused as to what I think of GWA now. Especially since I used it for LAGM 25. The problem with the subaeruginosa is probably just the culture itself. I have ovoids and IWL on the exact same batch of agar and they're fine. Just to be sure, I'll put the subs on different agars tonight.


--------------------
Also I tooted churp for being a lowbrow puppet, it's so obvious.
I also added them both to my nazi watchlist in my journal, so we can watch them

-Jean-Luc Picard

Species grown so far (yes, it's a link)

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Churpee Choozle] * 4
    #29076806 -

Churpee Choozle said:
I am really confused as to what I think of GWA now. Especially since I used it for LAGM 25. The problem with the subaeruginosa is probably just the culture itself. I have ovoids and IWL on the exact same batch of agar and they're fine. Just to be sure, I'll put the subs on different agars tonight.


Some cultures are finicky.

Plenty of people get away with using gwa, The issues are regional and supplier dependent. X person may be able to use gwa while another will experience weak or stalled growth. I've had issues with wheat and oats from one source in my area while having no issues whatsoever when I changed supplier. I eventually stopped using oats altogether because they were a problem more often than not. If something causes you problems, just stop using it, problem solved.

The best rule of thumb with regards to starting material is to always source the better choice or to adopt the redundancy measure. If your choice is between PDA/MEA or gwa, go with the standard agar media. Avoid any potential problems before they happen. If you have the option between dirty wheat covered in bran and other filth, but have a clean option for 6$ more/bag...well, go with the clean bag.

Venting is an extra 10-15 mins on your sterilization cycle, vent anyways. Rinsing grain is an extra step, so what, it's the cheapest insurance policy you'll find.

The cheapest routes, or the shortest routes, are not necessarily the quickest or cheapest path to success.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #29076917 -

Hey. Why does my culture grow so thinly and whispy? I thought I keep getting some kind of white mold and I am not great at spotting it so I keep transferring the mold. But all of my dishes every time are like this. Is my scalpel the issue? I flame sterilise it till its burning red, I cool it a bit in SAB (not on the bottom). Control plates, which I just open in SAB and wave my hand above, are usually clean (no mold).



What do you think would be the issue?

Here are some plates I made with new wedges I received and they also seem like growing the same mold:

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Ursvar]
    #29076958 -

I don't see any mold. What's your recipe and how long have you been using it?

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Kloakk] * 2
    #29076960 -

Kloakk said:
Kloakk said:
I have 2 questions regarding 4 plates. The first two plates I want to put to grains, do they look okay?



The two last plates I see that there is both rhizomorphic and tomentose growth, is that normal and should I do another transfer before grains?



Sorry about pic quality, best I could get with my old phone and no day light :wow:


Sorry for quoting myself, but would really appreciate som input on these plates before sending to grains.






Hey, From my perspective they look ok. Seeing more than 1 type of myc growth usually indicates multiple pheno types ( strains ) in the genetics. Your plates look fine to me, full send bro!


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Ursvar] * 2
    #29076989 -

Like supa said, looks clean. Not all cultures are the same, there's variations.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Luminous7] * 1
    #29077011 -

Thanks, and that is what I ended up doing, it's been 16 days and this is where I'm at.



--------------------
“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: PhenoDreamers]
    #29077071 -

I do classic LME.
Myc is awfully thin and weak looking. Also, when I put it in grain all turned into bluish mold. Not one jar survived so I am sure its my agar

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Ursvar]
    #29077082 -

Ursvar said:
I do classic LME.
Myc is awfully thin and weak looking. Also, when I put it in grain all turned into bluish mold. Not one jar survived so I am sure its my agar


Sounds like you're culturing straight up mold. Show plate pics.

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #29077208 -

Got a new liquid culture for Cubes 😃 transfered agar to agar. Seems clean. Some very fluffy mycelium. Excited to see how it grows.



--------------------





Pasteurizing Straw with Hydrated Lime
Swiss Cheese Fruiting Chamber

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Ursvar] * 2
    #29077218 -

Stipe-n Cap said:
Ursvar said:
I do classic LME.
Myc is awfully thin and weak looking. Also, when I put it in grain all turned into bluish mold. Not one jar survived so I am sure its my agar


Sounds like you're culturing straight up mold. Show plate pics.


He did.

Ursvar said:
Hey. Why does my culture grow so thinly and whispy? I thought I keep getting some kind of white mold and I am not great at spotting it so I keep transferring the mold. But all of my dishes every time are like this. Is my scalpel the issue? I flame sterilise it till its burning red, I cool it a bit in SAB (not on the bottom). Control plates, which I just open in SAB and wave my hand above, are usually clean (no mold).



What do you think would be the issue?

Here are some plates I made with new wedges I received and they also seem like growing the same mold:



For my 2 cents, none of those look like mold to me. I would put any of the first four to grain. I would take transfers from the other three until I had more uniform growth.


--------------------
Method for Small Scale Casing Pasteurization

How much really fits in a 00 capsule?

Micro and Macro Mushroom Photography

Can you freeze mycelium?


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: RoscoeReturns] * 1
    #29077225 -

I had a similar problem, where my cultures were wispy and thin like that. I swapped from brf agar to lme agar and it improved a lot. Maybe try a different recipe? I have “stronger” growth at 2% LME than at 1% LME. You could try increasing (or decreasing) a bit the nutrients and see what happens. In my experience, agar is about playing with the variables a bit

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: RoscoeReturns]
    #29077226 -

:whathesaid:

Except 4:00


Unless those dark spots are aur bubbles .


And like Rand says, try changing up agar recipe...PDA, PDYA, LMEA, etc

Edited by LewDoja (01/04/25 04:55 PM)

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: LewDoja] * 1
    #29077690 -



It was the GWA. Thanks LadysKnight and Stipe. The same sickly looking subaeruginosa culture on brf/y. If it keeps looking like this I'd be prepared to send this to grain, with maybe one more transfer. Same stuff on GWA, I couldn't even see something worth transferring.


--------------------
Also I tooted churp for being a lowbrow puppet, it's so obvious.
I also added them both to my nazi watchlist in my journal, so we can watch them

-Jean-Luc Picard

Species grown so far (yes, it's a link)

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: RoscoeReturns]
    #29077700 -

I still think everything is moldy 🤔 I get some strong myc growth, but after the first transfer it gets thin. I already put some identical looking plates on grain and all turned to shit:

I can't figure what the issue would be because my sterile work is pretty decent. Maybe I am bad at determining where to take my transfer from

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Ursvar]
    #29077707 -

How long after shake is that?

And what's your agar recipe?

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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: Ursvar] * 2
    #29077737 -

Ursvar said:
I still think everything is moldy 🤔 I get some strong myc growth, but after the first transfer it gets thin. I already put some identical looking plates on grain and all turned to shit:

I can't figure what the issue would be because my sterile work is pretty decent. Maybe I am bad at determining where to take my transfer from


What Lew said. That jar looks just shaken, I can’t tell much of anything from that unless you shook it a week ago and it’s not recovered at all.

The other thing to consider if your jars all go green is your grain prep, lid/filter situation, inoculation process. Maybe you’re dropping good myc onto bad grain? Give us some more details about your process.

Oh, are dropping the whole plate to your jar, or just a wedge?


--------------------
Method for Small Scale Casing Pasteurization

How much really fits in a 00 capsule?

Micro and Macro Mushroom Photography

Can you freeze mycelium?


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Re: AGAR ENVY! (Anything and All things agar!) [Re: RoscoeReturns] * 3
    #29078023 -

I am by no means an expert as some of the other commenters on this fourm. Just expressing ideas and methods that have worked for me since diving into Agar in April. To be honest, I think agar is the most enjoyable part of this hobby.

Ive really taken a liking and became addicted to agar work.

When taking newly acquired spores, I always put them in a nutrient rich recipe. When making transfers 2. Or 3. I like to use a nutrient-lean recipe. In my limited experience, T2(orT3) grow fastest and healthiest looking on nutrient-lean agar. Ive used PDA / LME / Sorghum agar. Personally I like LME best but I always take 5+ transfers and make sure to give them different nutrients. I have yet to aquire sorghum seeds, but if I did… I would take my sorghum agar once fully clean and colonized to sorg. Seed as im sure it speeds up the process (only makes sense).

I myself like to color code my recipes as I always try different things and document growth rates.

The main reason I take so many transfers, is to continuously pratice and perfect my SAB technique and I like to always switch the agar recipe the mycelium grows on. I take transfers from myc. On an LME dish and then transfer to a PDA or sorghum dish. I feel it helps strengthen the mycelium.  Just my opinion.


--------------------
Try->Fail->Learn->Grow

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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