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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #28539060 -

Pretty sure it is the state DA office's job to pursue charges for crimes.  Enlil probably knows more about it though.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Ice Nine]
    #28539063 -

Ice9 said:
I asked for proof of laws that were changed to target Trump, per your post I quoted.  Do you have any of those?


Aaand I provided proof. I suppose you can play dumb and pretend it's not blatantly obvious that they changed the law specifically to target Trump. They changed the law for a limited window of time, and filed charges against Trump within hours of the changes going into effect.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Ice Nine]
    #28539064 -

Ice9 said:
Pretty sure it is the state DA office's job to pursue charges for crimes.  Enlil probably knows more about it though.


It's not a criminal charge. It's a civil case. That's why there's no jury.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/11/23 05:26 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #28539081 -

So...it's not actually a DOJ thing, huh? Not being criminal and all.

Bigbadwooof said:
Democrats are anti-democracy.


Meanwhile in Ohio

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28539084 -

Kryptos said:
So...it's not actually a DOJ thing, huh? Not being criminal and all.

Bigbadwooof said:
Democrats are anti-democracy.


Meanwhile in Ohio


Yeah... So are Republicans.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28539085 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Ice9 said:
Pretty sure it is the state DA office's job to pursue charges for crimes.  Enlil probably knows more about it though.


It's not a criminal charge. It's a civil case. That's why there's no jury.


There is no jury because Trump opted not to have a jury trial :shrug:


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28539087 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Ice9 said:
I asked for proof of laws that were changed to target Trump, per your post I quoted.  Do you have any of those?


Aaand I provided proof. I suppose you can play dumb and pretend it's not blatantly obvious that they changed the law specifically to target Trump. They changed the law for a limited window of time, and filed charges against Trump within hours of the changes going into effect.


Ah, I see.  You have no example of laws that were changed to target Trump.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Ice Nine]
    #28539092 -

Ice9 said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Ice9 said:
Pretty sure it is the state DA office's job to pursue charges for crimes.  Enlil probably knows more about it though.


It's not a criminal charge. It's a civil case. That's why there's no jury.


There is no jury because Trump opted not to have a jury trial :shrug:


Incorrect. Trump didn't have a choice to have a jury.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Ice Nine]
    #28539097 -

Ice9 said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Ice9 said:
I asked for proof of laws that were changed to target Trump, per your post I quoted.  Do you have any of those?


Aaand I provided proof. I suppose you can play dumb and pretend it's not blatantly obvious that they changed the law specifically to target Trump. They changed the law for a limited window of time, and filed charges against Trump within hours of the changes going into effect.


Ah, I see.  You have no example of laws that were changed to target Trump.


Ahh, I see... You want to play dumb. I can't help that.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28539099 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Ice9 said:
Pretty sure it is the state DA office's job to pursue charges for crimes.  Enlil probably knows more about it though.


It's not a criminal charge. It's a civil case. That's why there's no jury.


Ah, yes not a criminal case.  Is it the DA job in NY to pursue civil penalties for financial fraud?

Turns out it is:
Quote:
James sued Trump, his business associates—including his sons—and the Trump Organization for alleged fraud under New York Executive Law 63(12), which empowers the attorney general to go to court against anyone who “engage[s] in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate[s] persistent fraud...



--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Ice Nine]
    #28539102 -

Ice9 said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Ice9 said:
Pretty sure it is the state DA office's job to pursue charges for crimes.  Enlil probably knows more about it though.


It's not a criminal charge. It's a civil case. That's why there's no jury.


Ah, yes not a criminal case.  Is it the DA job in NY to pursue civil penalties for financial fraud?

Turns out it is:
Quote:
James sued Trump, his business associates—including his sons—and the Trump Organization for alleged fraud under New York Executive Law 63(12), which empowers the attorney general to go to court against anyone who “engage[s] in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate[s] persistent fraud...



She should have brought criminal charges, but she didn't do that, because a jury would be involved, and she would lose.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28539139 -

The trial was floated as a non-jury trial. Trump had 15 days to reject a non-jury trial, and he chose not to.

Sounds like the idiot didn't want a jury trial.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28539162 -

Bigbadwooof said:
koods said:
Trump valued mar-a-lago at $350 million ten years ago. That’s off by at least $200 million.


How do you know what the property was worth?

It's not the place of the state of New York to go after him for something like that. It's unheard of. The bank should have sued him.


It’s not unheard of. I was watching American Greed the other night and it was about a NYC landlord who used inflated numbers to get better rates on his mortgages. He was actually charged criminally.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/nyregion/steven-croman-landlord-sentenced-rikers.html

Quote:
The surrender and formal sentencing of the landlord, Steven Croman, followed a yearlong investigation by the New York State attorney general, Eric T. Schneiderman, that revealed Mr. Croman falsified payroll records and padded out the value of his more than 140 buildings, ultimately securing over $45 million in mortgage refinancing under false pretenses.


Should be pointed out that Trump’s fraudulently acquired loans were worth far more than $45 million


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (11/11/23 07:07 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #28539211 -

Quote:
She should have brought criminal charges, but she didn't do that, because a jury would be involved, and she would lose.



Trump had the option to choose a jury trial.

anyways, civil charges are more suited to recovering fraudulently acquired assets


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #28539290 -

Bigbadwooof said:
koods said:
I think it’s one of the strongest parts of the case because they have evidence that trump personally pushed this scheme that involved unambiguously illegal activity - the forgery of official documents.


See... I don't understand why they have to do the sort of dirty shit they are doing in New York against Trump, when they have something like this. It unnecessarily paints a very bad picture.



Of trump?

They're doing it because there's enough evidence to make a case, because it is allegedly what he did.

The dirty shit is the fake electors scandal, not the investigation of it.

If it had no merit itd be dead in the water and you'd be glad they're doing it because it would actually be a witch hunt, like what republicans did with Hunter. Go get him I say.

If you think it's all bullshit then you should be happy the dems are doing it.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: sudly]
    #28539291 -

sudly said:
If it had no merit itd be dead in the water and you'd be glad they're doing it because it would actually be a witch hunt, like what republicans did with Hunter. Go get him I say.



Agreed.
It’s a case with merit. I say he should get the book of law thrown at his penal system.


--------------------

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Edited by GenesisCorrupted (11/12/23 10:17 AM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28539292 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Ice9 said:
Pretty sure it is the state DA office's job to pursue charges for crimes.  Enlil probably knows more about it though.


It's not a criminal charge. It's a civil case. That's why there's no jury.


Quote:
Trump's team had 15 days to oppose that, but did not, Engoron said, because there was no point in doing so.

"It would not have helped to make a motion. Nobody forgot to check off a box," Engoron said.

Engoron said the punishment being sought by the state is an "equitable" remedy, as opposed to a "legal" remedy.

A legal remedy is an award for damages, which can be determined by a jury. Earlier this year, a federal jury awarded the writer E. Jean Carroll $5 million in damages after finding Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation. The damages were not an amount Trump took from her, but rather a sum the jury concluded might remedy the emotional, physical and reputational harm Trump had caused.

In the ongoing New York fraud case, the state is seeking $250 million in disgorgement, a kind of equitable remedy that is a clawback of ill-gotten gains — the amount of benefit that the state says Trump and the co-defendants personally received from alleged fraud. Authorities cannot ask a jury to make that kind of calculation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-trial-no-jury-fraud-new-york-judge-arthur-engoron/



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28539666 -

Kryptos said:
The trial was floated as a non-jury trial. Trump had 15 days to reject a non-jury trial, and he chose not to.

Sounds like the idiot didn't want a jury trial.


As per your own article:

Quote:
POLITICS
Judge in Trump's New York fraud trial explains why there's no jury
BY GRAHAM KATES

OCTOBER 11, 2023 / 3:51 PM EDT / CBS NEWS


Former President Donald Trump did not request a jury for his New York civil fraud trial, but even if he had asked for one, the answer would've been "no," a judge said Wednesday.


POLITICS
Judge in Trump's New York fraud trial explains why there's no jury
BY GRAHAM KATES

OCTOBER 11, 2023 / 3:51 PM EDT / CBS NEWS


Former President Donald Trump did not request a jury for his New York civil fraud trial, but even if he had asked for one, the answer would've been "no," a judge said Wednesday.

Judge Arthur Engoron addressed an issue that had been the subject of speculation on social media and by Trump himself, saying it "keeps coming up," even though he doesn't "read the papers or go online to read about" the trial.

Engoron is presiding over the bench trial of a $250 million lawsuit filed in 2022 by New York Attorney General Letitia James, in which she accused Trump, two of his sons, their company and other executives of years of widespread fraud. Engoron said that in paperwork certifying that the case was ready for trial, James' office checked a box suggesting it be a non-jury proceeding.

Trump's team had 15 days to oppose that, but did not, Engoron said, because there was no point in doing so.

"It would not have helped to make a motion. Nobody forgot to check off a box," Engoron said.





Trump didn't have the option to have a fucking jury. You're all wrong.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/12/23 03:23 AM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: sudly]
    #28539668 -

sudly said:
Bigbadwooof said:
koods said:
I think it’s one of the strongest parts of the case because they have evidence that trump personally pushed this scheme that involved unambiguously illegal activity - the forgery of official documents.


See... I don't understand why they have to do the sort of dirty shit they are doing in New York against Trump, when they have something like this. It unnecessarily paints a very bad picture.



Of trump?

They're doing it because there's enough evidence to make a case, because it is allegedly what he did.

The dirty shit is the fake electors scandal, not the investigation of it.


You keep misunderstanding my posts. I said the fake electors scandal does have merit. The cases in New York where they A. Changed the law in order to go after Trump, or B. Filed a civil suit on behalf of a bank that had no qualms with Trump in the first place... Are dirty and politically motivated. In other words, the only reason that these cases have been brought against Trump, is because he's running for president.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28539701 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Kryptos said:
The trial was floated as a non-jury trial. Trump had 15 days to reject a non-jury trial, and he chose not to.

Sounds like the idiot didn't want a jury trial.


As per your own article:

Quote:
POLITICS
Judge in Trump's New York fraud trial explains why there's no jury
BY GRAHAM KATES

OCTOBER 11, 2023 / 3:51 PM EDT / CBS NEWS


Former President Donald Trump did not request a jury for his New York civil fraud trial, but even if he had asked for one, the answer would've been "no," a judge said Wednesday.


POLITICS
Judge in Trump's New York fraud trial explains why there's no jury
BY GRAHAM KATES

OCTOBER 11, 2023 / 3:51 PM EDT / CBS NEWS


Former President Donald Trump did not request a jury for his New York civil fraud trial, but even if he had asked for one, the answer would've been "no," a judge said Wednesday.

Judge Arthur Engoron addressed an issue that had been the subject of speculation on social media and by Trump himself, saying it "keeps coming up," even though he doesn't "read the papers or go online to read about" the trial.

Engoron is presiding over the bench trial of a $250 million lawsuit filed in 2022 by New York Attorney General Letitia James, in which she accused Trump, two of his sons, their company and other executives of years of widespread fraud. Engoron said that in paperwork certifying that the case was ready for trial, James' office checked a box suggesting it be a non-jury proceeding.

Trump's team had 15 days to oppose that, but did not, Engoron said, because there was no point in doing so.

"It would not have helped to make a motion. Nobody forgot to check off a box," Engoron said.





Trump didn't have the option to have a fucking jury. You're all wrong.


Actually it's a complicated issue and Trump may have been able to legally angle for a jury, and if his lawyers presented a reasonable case on that, they could have appealed a no jury ruling. Appeals is all Trump wants to prolong everything past the election.

But Trump's counsel never mentioned jury when the case began, so now the judge is treating it like a dead issue. The legalities are way beyond my knowledge, and a bench trial is the usual in this type of case, but I keep reading that Trump's lawyers dropped the ball.

I mix up the different cases, and I think this might be a different one, but the case where Trump has a female attorney doing most of the motions, she sounds as absolutely stupid as he does. I read an interesting opinion piece that they're not trying to win the case on it's merits, because that would be hopeless. They're trying to do the Chicago 7 defense, and put the system on trial instead. That worked then, for the most part.

Compared to Trump, there wasn't a lot of good evidence against the Chicago 7 defendants. Like I said, I mix up all the cases, but Trump massively overestimates his appeal. The putting the system on trial strategy isn't going to work for all the cases. He's going to get nailed.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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