Bernie Sanders said:

With Trump's election, we live in a pivotal moment in American history. This country will either move in the direction of an authoritarian government where the rich get richer and everyone else gets poorer, or we will successfully fight back and build a strong grassroots movement to create a government which represents all of us, not just Donald Trump and others in the billionaire class.

That's the struggle we now face. No one can sit on the sidelines. Not now. The only way we win is when we stand together and fight back. I need your help to do that.

The bad news is that Trump's agenda – huge tax breaks for billionaires, enormous increases in military spending, massive cuts in health care and programs that protect the elderly, the children, the sick and the poor, horrific attacks on environmental protection and scapegoating the immigrant community – constitutes the most reactionary set of policies in the modern history of our country.

The good news is that the resistance to this extremist Trump/Republican agenda is growing rapidly. We saw that as millions participated in the Women's March in January. We saw that as hundreds of thousands attended rallies and town meetings in February and March to successfully defeat the Republican effort to repeal the Affordable Care Act and throw 24 million Americans off of their health insurance. We are seeing that now as people across the country are mobilizing for Green Day events to take on the fossil fuel industry, combat climate change and transform our energy system to energy efficiency and sustainable energy.

When we launched our presidential campaign two years ago, I told you that victory would require the active participation of millions of Americans in every community across the country. That it would require nothing short of a political revolution to combat the demoralization so many feel about the political process. That's what I believed then. That's what I believe now. And that's what I am attempting to do.

During the last several months I have visited a number of states where Donald Trump won. My message: working people must not support a president and a party beholden to powerful special interests and the top 1 percent. We cannot support a party which wants to divide us up by race, gender, religion, national origin or sexual orientation.

I was in Wisconsin where progressives are determined to overcome the Trump victory in that state and elect candidates who, in 2018, will stand with working people and not the 1 percent. I was in Kansas where, in one of the most conservative states in the country, over 5,000 people attended a progressive rally in Topeka. I was in Mississippi, a state today heavily dominated by the Republican Party, where brave workers in the auto industry are fighting for a union. I was in West Virginia, where Trump won a landslide victory, but where many people are beginning to rethink the wisdom of that decision.

And next week I am going back on the road, visiting areas of the country often ignored by Democrats. I will be in Maine, Kentucky, Florida, Nevada, Nebraska, Utah and Arizona. I will be talking about the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality that we face and the need for the rich to start paying their fair share of taxes. I will discuss the Medicare-for-all, single-payer legislation that I will soon be introducing. I will urge people to join the Fight for $15 minimum wage struggle to make sure all Americans enjoy a living wage. I will ask people across the country to help us create millions of jobs by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. I will explain the need to aggressively move forward for comprehensive immigration reform and why we must immediately fix our broken criminal justice system.

But I can’t do it alone.

Please make a contribution to my re-election campaign to help fund this national tour.

Please attend the rallies in your area. Please work with me to revitalize American democracy and advance the political revolution.

Like I said from the beginning, our political revolution was never about one candidate. It was about creating a mass movement for real change in this country. That's the struggle we began. That's the struggle we'll continue. No turning back now.

In solidarity,

Bernie Sanders

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

I contributed a fair amount to Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Presidential campaign, and he just emailed me today saying "Please make a contribution to my re-election campaign".

Does this mean he plans to run in 2020?  That's what it seems like to me, but other than his email, I can't find anything definitive.

Any insights?

Here's the full message:

Bernie Sanders said:

With Trump's election, we live in a pivotal moment in American history. This country will either move in the direction of an authoritarian government where the rich get richer and everyone else gets poorer, or we will successfully fight back and build a strong grassroots movement to create a government which represents all of us, not just Donald Trump and others in the billionaire class.

That's the struggle we now face. No one can sit on the sidelines. Not now. The only way we win is when we stand together and fight back. I need your help to do that.

The bad news is that Trump's agenda – huge tax breaks for billionaires, enormous increases in military spending, massive cuts in health care and programs that protect the elderly, the children, the sick and the poor, horrific attacks on environmental protection and scapegoating the immigrant community – constitutes the most reactionary set of policies in the modern history of our country.

The good news is that the resistance to this extremist Trump/Republican agenda is growing rapidly. We saw that as millions participated in the Women's March in January. We saw that as hundreds of thousands attended rallies and town meetings in February and March to successfully defeat the Republican effort to repeal the Affordable Care Act and throw 24 million Americans off of their health insurance. We are seeing that now as people across the country are mobilizing for Green Day events to take on the fossil fuel industry, combat climate change and transform our energy system to energy efficiency and sustainable energy.

When we launched our presidential campaign two years ago, I told you that victory would require the active participation of millions of Americans in every community across the country. That it would require nothing short of a political revolution to combat the demoralization so many feel about the political process. That's what I believed then. That's what I believe now. And that's what I am attempting to do.

During the last several months I have visited a number of states where Donald Trump won. My message: working people must not support a president and a party beholden to powerful special interests and the top 1 percent. We cannot support a party which wants to divide us up by race, gender, religion, national origin or sexual orientation.

I was in Wisconsin where progressives are determined to overcome the Trump victory in that state and elect candidates who, in 2018, will stand with working people and not the 1 percent. I was in Kansas where, in one of the most conservative states in the country, over 5,000 people attended a progressive rally in Topeka. I was in Mississippi, a state today heavily dominated by the Republican Party, where brave workers in the auto industry are fighting for a union. I was in West Virginia, where Trump won a landslide victory, but where many people are beginning to rethink the wisdom of that decision.

And next week I am going back on the road, visiting areas of the country often ignored by Democrats. I will be in Maine, Kentucky, Florida, Nevada, Nebraska, Utah and Arizona. I will be talking about the grotesque level of income and wealth inequality that we face and the need for the rich to start paying their fair share of taxes. I will discuss the Medicare-for-all, single-payer legislation that I will soon be introducing. I will urge people to join the Fight for $15 minimum wage struggle to make sure all Americans enjoy a living wage. I will ask people across the country to help us create millions of jobs by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. I will explain the need to aggressively move forward for comprehensive immigration reform and why we must immediately fix our broken criminal justice system.

But I can’t do it alone.

Please make a contribution to my re-election campaign to help fund this national tour.

Please attend the rallies in your area. Please work with me to revitalize American democracy and advance the political revolution.

Like I said from the beginning, our political revolution was never about one candidate. It was about creating a mass movement for real change in this country. That's the struggle we began. That's the struggle we'll continue. No turning back now.

In solidarity,

Bernie Sanders

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zZZz said:

Give ur money to the poor, those living in the streets, struggling families, thats a real contribution, not these politicians..

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Progressives think that giving money to govt is just like helping the poor

hostileuniverse said:

zZZz said:

Give ur money to the poor, those living in the streets, struggling families, thats a real contribution, not these politicians..

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Progressives think that giving money to govt is just like helping the poor

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Arose Chaos said:

Under Sanders we would become some entitlement socialist everyone gets a free ride country with the world's strongest military that won't be used.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Arose Chaos said:

Under Sanders we would become some entitlement socialist everyone gets a free ride country with the world's strongest military that won't be used.

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Sanders wanted to fix the systems we have in place that are breaking.  Social Security, infrastructure, schools, to name a few.

The only two new "free" things I'm aware that Bernie called for was healthcare (is that really a bad thing???) and public college (which used to be practically free before taxes were cut for the rich).

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Arose Chaos said:

...in your opinion why should Healthcare, and more importantly college, be "free"?

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Arose Chaos said:

Do agree with the government covering a much larger portion of healthcare and college, which will undoubtedly raise the national debt?

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Arose Chaos said:

If college is free, what weight does a degree then hold?

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Arose Chaos said:

...in your opinion why should Healthcare, and more importantly college, be "free"?

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Practically every country in the world gets free healthcare except the US.  Should someone who gets cancer really have to choose between staying alive and giving up his family's home?

As for free public college, it was never intended to give EVERYONE free college; only those who got admitted.  Free public college would make public universities so competitive, that only the very best and brightest could go. 

Arose Chaos said:

Do agree with the government covering a much larger portion of healthcare and college, which will undoubtedly raise the national debt?

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No, I'm very strongly against more debt, as was Bernie.  I'm for more taxes on the super rich, like it used to be when the country could afford to be great.

Arose Chaos said:

If college is free, what weight does a degree then hold?

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It would hold MUCH MORE weight, because public college would be so much more competitive.

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LaofooQ said:

But the actual reality is a bunch of retards that don't even use punctuation, parked up in classes being a "money chip" for the cancer that "free college" has become in this country? That's all it is too. Glorified daycare for people who can't run a cash register.  Meanwhile, our previously golden college standard has become a joke. I don't have an answer bevause I would go by IQ and merit.

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LaofooQ said:

Socialism is just a financial scam to scam people who forgot "no such thing as a free lunch" and voted or let tjemselves be led to, direct self implosion?

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Capitalism (as the US does it) is a scam to make the rich richer while everyone else gets nothing more for their efforts.

Arose Chaos said:

You said free public college to those who are admitted will make it more competitive. How so?

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Arose Chaos said:

Isn't college already competitive? Right now people are usually fighting for a scholarship academically or athletically. Often resulting in individuals having more drive to do well in high school in order to get a grant, funding or scholarship.

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Arose Chaos said:

If anyone who is accepted can get a degree free of cost, wouldn't it just make a public college degree similar to a HS diploma?

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Arose Chaos said:

How would the cash be raised? For the dorms, the food, books etc. Unless you mean just the tuition is paid for, and not all the other costs.

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Arose Chaos said:

And this gets into the main philosophical debate; but how is it ok to largely increase taxes on the" Super rich"? Also what defines super rich?

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We've done it before when the country was better off, from WWII through the 70's.  We can do it again:

Arose Chaos said:

As for free Healthcare, taxes would have to be enormous to pay for that type of entitlement. That's a lot to put on the taxpayers, with hospital staff, equipment and procedure costs. Countries that do this have incredibly high taxes, (France is a good example if I'm not mistaken). Just taxing the super rich won't cover Healthcare for the country. Also to point out that you can't always compare other countries to the US as typically our population, rate of sickness, disease and crime related injuries are much higher than most countries.

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Arose Chaos said:

you put other liberals to shame in terms of knowing the information of the policies you believe. Love having someone with an actual rebuttal.

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Thank you, but I think most of the liberals here are a lot smarter than the ones you'll find in the pub.

And it's nice to have a discussion with someone who's at least listening.

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:[/b

Quote:

Arose Chaos said:

you put other liberals to shame in terms of knowing the information of the policies you believe. Love having someone with an actual rebuttal.

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Thank you, but I think most of the liberals here are a lot smarter than the ones you'll find in the pub.

And it's nice to have a discussion with someone who's at least listening.

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Cheers my friend, healthy debate is what we need instead of the shit show that we have currently. Very valid arguments, however I'm not so sure that some of the groups affected by significant tax hikes, let alone the insurance companies. Wouldn't that decimate health insurers?

And on the subject, universal Healthcare would be unfair to more health conscious individuals. For example a Smoker vs a non Smoker. Why should the smoker receive the same entitlements? (I smoke btw)
Regardless of lifestyle choices, everyone gets covered, and everyone shares the cost

Additionally in countries like Canada and Australia, while they have free Healthcare systems, the wait times and accessibility of care are a train wreck. Also, what about prescriptions, will they covered as well? Thats a whole-other beast itself which branches out to abuse and big pharmaceutical.

Another question, how do you feel about the military under a President such as Sanders?

Arose Chaos said:

I'm not so sure that some of the groups affected by significant tax hikes, let alone the insurance companies. Wouldn't that decimate health insurers?

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Arose Chaos said:

And on the subject, universal Healthcare would be unfair to more health conscious individuals. For example a Smoker vs a non Smoker. Why should the smoker receive the same entitlements? (I smoke btw)
Regardless of lifestyle choices, everyone gets covered, and everyone shares the cost

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Arose Chaos said:

Additionally in countries like Canada and Australia, while they have free Healthcare systems, the wait times and accessibility of care are a train wreck.

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Arose Chaos said:

Also, what about prescriptions, will they covered as well? Thats a whole-other beast itself which branches out to abuse and big pharmaceutical.

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Arose Chaos said:

Another question, how do you feel about the military under a President such as Sanders?

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

As an ex-military officer, I'd say it would be a dream come true.  Finally a president that wouldn't go to war just to give big oil and the military industrial complex more money.  He'd only go to war if it were in defense of our country.

If you've read some of my previous posts, you'd see there's a lot of solid evidence this is what's going on.

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Arose Chaos said:

...while agree war is never a good thing, with some of the situations around the world I think a preemptive strike or attack is necessary.

The idea of sitting back and waiting for North Korea to develop long range nuclear warheads makes me cringe.

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Arose Chaos said:

I side with whomever keeps out military strength at the top, and isn't afraid to pick a fight when necessary. So obviously 95% of the time my vote goes to a conservative, or frankly anyone who makes the military and care of veterans at the top of their priorities.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Arose Chaos said:

...while agree war is never a good thing, with some of the situations around the world I think a preemptive strike or attack is necessary.

The idea of sitting back and waiting for North Korea to develop long range nuclear warheads makes me cringe.

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I'm not a fan of Kim Jong-un whatsoever, but I think a good President could have negotiated a deal with N. Korea, as Clinton once did.  What does he get in return for not having a seat at the Big Boy table with the other nuclear powers?

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Arose Chaos said:

Honestly, I don't think he should get anything. That dictatorship is one of those things that should be erased from this planet. It's not so much an issue of what do they want, or how can we negotiate, but an issue of what can the world do to rid the country of something so evil and corrupt. The guy executes people frequently, including his own brother. That type of person, or his followers should not be allowed to exist.

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Arose Chaos said:

I'm not so sure he would be that supportive of veterans . if I remember correctly, he was the chairman of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee when the 2014 VA scandal happened.

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Arose Chaos said:

What would he actually do to improve veteran care?

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Arose Chaos said:

We already discussed the free college topic, however wouldn't that be an additional slap in the face for veterans using the GI bill?

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Arose Chaos said:

Not only veterans, but I think he would cut military spending which would affect active duty personnel.

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Arose Chaos said:

due to my stance on entitlements, I still don't agree that we should throw money at people in "poverty". In this country, anyone regardless of circumstance can be successful. Besides the people born in, or falling in to wealth, it just takes individual effort and motivation.

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Arose Chaos said:

...you implied that we don't "know for sure" about some things.

The intelligence individuals and agencies in the US are some of if not the best on the planet.

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Arose Chaos said:

This is one of the few things I have read by you that seems like "typical" liberal logic. How can anyone think that a handful of people, many of whom were N.Korean, just acted alone and randomly in the obvious murder of Un's brother. It was clearly an assassination.

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Arose Chaos said:

Also Un's other executions were an obvious insecurity of power and control. Anyone who remotely protests the leadership there, either dies or ends up in a work camp for the next 15-25 years. Many of the defectors have said as much, and spoke of the brutality of the regime.

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Arose Chaos said:

For Assad, back to the intelligence capability of the US.. With all the resources the Intel community has, how would the US possibly not be 100% sure of the chemical weapons attack originating  from Assad forces.

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They may well be 100% sure of who's behind it.  And that may well be why they don't want Russia to help in the investigation, because Russia might reveal what they already know.    The CIA has lied in the past about things that promote US interests, like the situation in Ukraine (we now know that the US Government orchestrated a coup there).

Arose Chaos said:

Multiple news outlets reported on how the US traced the Syrian aircraft from the airstrip to the chemical weapon attack area, and then said aircraft back to the same airstrip.

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Arose Chaos said:

One of my gripes is a lot of people on the left will assume that something is not proven, or could be a conspiracy or cover up.

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Arose Chaos said:

The President and many of the US high command and agencies have unimaginable resources at their disposal, most of which we will never know about.

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Arose Chaos said:

Anyways, good debate. Hitting the rack for now, will be at it again tomorrow. Good stuff Falcon.

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Definitely a good discussion.  I wished more were like this. 

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Thanks!  He also says "North Korea-er". 

Interestingly Bernie had more overall support than Clinton did, but he lost because many states have closed primaries and caucuses (meaning only Democrats are allowed to vote).  I couldn't even vote for Bernie in California because I'm registered with the Green Party.

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