Northerner said:

Tink, tink, tink...

"Hello and thank you for coming to my party, I'd just like to take this opportunity to tell everyone how much I love drugs."

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Mostly Lucid said:

Agreed. 
As somebody with a full time job and responsibilities as well (like most here I am sure) - I enjoy the escape that the ability to take a 'trip' with my wife while never leaving home.  The fact that there is no hangover, the next morning has a nice warm afterglow (remember those on booze?? not...LOL) and it all just feels right to me.  We are for sure doing it as a replacement to other more destructive habits and some criticize that, but to me it is what works for us right now.

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ShiroiTora said:

Lots of posts recently about psychedelics which are in some way a shortcut to being happy/enlightened/normal(?). How could you possibly think this having tried it?

I have been taking psychedelics for about 4 years now, and I am only now starting to figure out how to actually use them to better my life in a meaningful way. What kind of "shortcut" takes multiple years to figure out the basics of? Compared to yoga it is extremely difficult, as within weeks of starting yoga I was already a more patient, focused, connected(not to mention fit) and disciplined person, with less than a tenth of the effort I put into psychedelics(considering research, journalling, abstaining completely from TV etc).

I think people confuse the connectedness they feel on psychedelics with true connection. How I see psychedelics, they are a map. Even if you feel like you attain samadhi or satori, it is just like looking at a photo of the grand canyon. Yes it's beauty may overwhelm you even though it is only a photo, but it remains just a photo. Psychedelics remain just a map. Everything you feel on psychedelics is indeed obtainable, but hard fucking work is required.

Honestly statements like these are so cringe, like would you really call yourself a "traveler" if you only read national geographic but stay in your home town? Is national geographic a "shortcut" to "seeing the world", and have you REALLY seen the world by reading it?

But maybe I'm just a prick, maybe you guys have actual examples for me, so please let me know if and how psychedelics have been a shortcut for you in your own personal life. I look forward to reading these.

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Quote:

Lots of posts recently about psychedelics which are in some way a shortcut to being happy/enlightened/normal(?). How could you possibly think this having tried it?

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I think talking about "spiritual insights" on psychedelics is more realistic. Psychedelics tend to put you in a headspace where concepts from Buddhism (as an example) make more sense. In this way they can put people on a spiritual path, meaning that psychedelics become a sort of gateway into spirituality, a beginning point rather than a shortcut to enlightment.



Personally I wouldn't describe myself as a "spiritual" person exactly, and that's not my reason for taking psychedelics, but my mushroom experiences have made me more open to the ideas of Buddhism and other spiritual and religious concepts.

The idea of psychedelics being a shortcut to enlightment is probably connected to their ability to produce very powerful mystical experiences. It's not unreasonable to argue that these involve nondual awareness of some variety, but even if you take Leary's ideas seriously about reaching an intermediate state of consciousness that resembles the concept of death from Tibetan Buddhism, that's quite a different kettle of fish from reaching a permanently enlighted state in sober reality during your waking life.



I would think of a mystical experience as a profound event, a glimpse, a snapshot of something amazing rather than a destination that can be reached in this life. To me they seem more like a glimpse of an afterlife, something beyond everyday reality, not so much a template for a way of being in this world. On the other hand, spiritual practice is more of an ongoing process that is more grounded and has more practical value in everyday life.

I watched this video recently that seems to have a reasonable take on this question:

Psychedelic Enlightenment Vs. Natural Enlightenment | Vishuddha Das

Northerner said:

Tink, tink, tink...

"Hello and thank you for coming to my party, I'd just like to take this opportunity to tell everyone how much I love drugs."

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Aldebaran said:

Quote:

Lots of posts recently about psychedelics which are in some way a shortcut to being happy/enlightened/normal(?)...
Psychedelic Enlightenment Vs. Natural Enlightenment | Vishuddha Das

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redgreenvines said:

this video is annoying.
the guy in it begins by saying that he is not enlightened, and later espouses several assertions about what enlightenment is.
(so how would he know, why is he selling this idea?)
Also his obsession with ego based theories of psychedelics and of enlightenment is too rigid.
but of course
he is not enlightened.
then he says that psychedelic enlightenment is temporary but the other means of enlightenment (i.e. by meditation) are permanent.
which of course he knows but since he is not enlightened why would we believe him.
I like his eyes, but I don't like his story.

Aldebaran said:

Quote:

Lots of posts recently about psychedelics which are in some way a shortcut to being happy/enlightened/normal(?)...
Psychedelic Enlightenment Vs. Natural Enlightenment | Vishuddha Das

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He's just selling what you hope to espouse

Neurotech said:

Because people can have experiences for several hours that would otherwise be unattainable to most people without years of spiritual practice. These include awareness of the interconnectedness of all living things, a feeling of oneness with all things, the experience of seeing or feeling God. Some might say it’s all in your head, but then how do you know that spiritual experiences and enlightenment aren’t all in your head? I happen to believe everything in your head is the same as everything outside of your head.

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