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Offlinetregar
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One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste & increases absorption many factors * 4
    #27278392 - 04/22/21 05:51 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)
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Sublingual Ayahuasca, my psychedelic of choice: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371

hxxps://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371 (change hxxp to http to link)
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Compilation of panaeolus cyanescens experiences & combo with THH or tetrahydroharmine, like organic psilocin LSD:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28108398

Pic 1: After the substrate is fully colonized, it will look almost completely white, uncover and add your casing layer.

Pic 2: Had success just growing on a table top with humidifier sitting on same table, directing the mist toward the cake pans.

Pic 3: Final fruiting pic

Pic 4: 300mg of pure tetrahydroharmine or THH at very top of pic in weigher to take with the pan cyan.

Pic 5: One of my favorite woman house DJ's: Music sounds infinitely beautiful with the combo of pan cyan + THH



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4-24-2022

Thread summarized in 4 pages and continued here:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383
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Update 7.21.2022 You may also like:

LSH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2, with 10 pics:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/fpart/1/vc/1
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2 minute formed HPBCD DMT liquid very bioavailable sublingually under tongue & outperforms DMT salts orally by many factors in personal trials, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca.

Skip to page 8 post #27701706 and #27703382 near bottom of page for one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste & increases absorption many factors, with 6 pics:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27278392/fpart/8

Here is the full journey report (150mg HPBCD DMT + 170mg harmine fb + 250mg THH or tetrahydroharmine freebase) all dissolved into 30ml (one-shot) hot water, added 150mg pure vitamin C powder so the freebase harmalas could dissolve, although only 100mg is needed:

Update 4pm 3/21/2022: I am writing this 1.5 hour later: took the 1-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca (150mg HPBCD DMT, 250mg THH, 170mg harmine all dissolved into 30ml hot water) and it worked incredibly well! Phenomenal strength, for the 1st 10 minutes I held on tight as it felt like I was handling a high speed sports car, ego disintegrating & boundaries shattered.

For the first 10 minutes, open or closed eyes, didn't matter, saw same thing: colored neon geometrics on the surface of everything. Felt whole body high tryptamine frequency combined with the THH frequency vibration = amazing amplified whole body frequency, like being tuned into another spirit manifested alien world. It felt like a colored shining tractor beam was going to surround me and take me away, very 3-dimensional.

It was so powerful for 10 minutes, I had to close my eyes to find a happy place. Felt like the most powerful of my past Hawaiian psychotria experiences (40 grams leaf) with Caapi which I only ventured at this dose around 5 times (and all by accident, never meant to, as it is so strong) out of my 70 total Hawaiian psychotria journeys (most 30-35 grams), this was no different, exactly the same as the potent leaf, at the very high end for advanced Ayahuasca use.

Dennis Mckenna once said about one of his Ayahuasca journeys, that for the first 10 minutes it felt like he was riding an elevator to the top floor at high speed, this is how it felt for me, or like handling a high speed sports car.

...then it became at 10 minutes extremely enjoyable, infinite open eyed beauty, incredible closed eye morphing & dancing geometrics in wild neon purple, pink & green that lasted for another 35 minutes with closed eyes. With open eyes, saturated neon colors and neon colored rainbow reflections surrounded everything which glowed intensely with an inner divine light, music playing was just heavenly, incredible music enhancement, +5 Shulgin level experience, most powerful experience I've had in years....very strong for 1.5 hour, when it decreased in strength several notches.

I could not believe the open eyed beauty--phenomenal...this is my preferred method. WOW, unbelievable experience, high euphoria, deep headspace, profound spiritual insights, extremely visual, had the power of 40g Hawaiian psychotria to the highest degree. I experienced zero nausea, zero dizziness (so long as I keep my harmine dose below 200mg). Love, Love, Love.
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Part 0: 12 reasons pure THH or tetrahydroharmine rocks (this post #1 in middle)
Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration, over 44 sublingual DMT experiences over a year's time (this post #1 at bottom with pics). Many times stronger than oral DMT. Updated 1-1-2022.

--> See the 5 hour brightly colored CEV trip report using 300mg oral THH once + 60mg sublingual HPBCD DMT + 35mg sublingual harmine fb x 2 re-doses every 1.5 hour at the very bottom of this post #1. HPBCD DMT kicks ass period. Most meaningful & intense CEV visionary experience of my life, and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times and high dose cactus tea over 200 times. Incredible music enhancement the whole time as well. <--

Part 2: L-dreamer's 2/4/2022 experience: "Sublingual DMT + oral THH - surprising and underrated" + Closing tips + Receptorome chart & explanation (2nd post down)
Part 3: 300mg Tetrahydroharmine (THH) teaching visions all by itself
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: Chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD complexed prohormones for sublingual use (millions of dollars in sales) & bloodwork studies (post #5)
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal, absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection.
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
part 10: One way to make pure tetrahydroharmine
part 11: From the archives of DMT world: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask. (page 2, post #27283417)
part 12: Out of print writings on the Divine Plant of the Incas, coca leaf visions...and writings on strong euphoria from coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, forming orally active cocaethylene in the liver, discovered in 1994. Explains the popularity of Vin Mariani (coca leaf soaked wine) with both popes, Thomas Edison and countless celebrities. (page 2, post #27289484)
part 13: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) + 1-acetaldehyde LSD (identical to ALD-52) trip reports, like high dose mescaline. (page 2, post #27291303)
part 14: THH + mushrooms report from JKW. (page 2, post #27292261)
part 15: Multiple encounters with death and depression & 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD oral Ayahuasca report. (page 2, post #27295023)
part 16: Late March 2022 experience: Oral Ayahuasca: 250mg oral THH fb + 160mg oral harmine fb + 140mg HPBCD DMT, THH and harmine in gelatin capsules, 140mg HPBCD DMT dissolves from off spoon instantly into 1 shot glass of 125 degree F water, transparent color. Many times more potent than freebase or DMT salts used orally. HPBCD not only helps to mask the taste of the nasty freebase DMT as it goes down but improves absorption into intestinal tissues many factors over. (page 8)

Subject also discussed here: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
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10.18.2021 update:

Tetrahydroharmine + 1-acetaldehyde LSD (similar to ALD-52) combo, like high dose mescaline, see details on part 13, see page 2, post #27291303.

In closing, I'm going to post what I believe to be a revolutionary psychedelic combination, and it's dirt cheap compared to the rare and very expensive cactus...but it's just as long-lasting, profound, highly euphoric, visual, neon-colorful, music-enhancing & super deep head space, with zero-anxiety as two feet of fat bridgesii.

300mg THH + 250ug 1-acetaldehyde LSD report (2oz fresh cold sherry wine morning glory extract can substitute as well)

1) The combo of 300mg THH + 1-acetaldehyde LSD makes the beauty & aesthetic enhancement way stronger than LSD alone. Same "over the top" beauty enhancement as high dose cactus tea.

2) The music sounds much better than LSD alone, it feels very much like when you combine mescaline with LSD, as THH is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline.

3) The combo is highly visual & neon-colorful with open eyes, with each of the 12 trips spaced two weeks apart experienced so far have seen neon-red-greens, neon-orange-blues, and even neon-purple-yellows, supercolorful just like high-dose cactus tea.

3) Very beautiful combination.

4) This 300mg THH + 250ug 1-acetaldehyde LSD combo is one of my absolute favorites, have since used it every 2 weeks x 12 times now. No re-doses necessary as the THH has a 10.5 hour half life with peak at 5.25 hours. Very powerful: Lasts all evening, infinitely beautiful. I've consistently reached +5 Shulgin level strength every time, very life changing experience every time. Super deep head space, Divine to the extreme, heavenly mescaline-like spiritual euphoria for hours on end, no words to describe.

Note: THH is NOT an MAOI, she (feminine spirit) is a psychedelic SRI or serotonin reuptake inhibitor just like the following psychedelic serotonin reuptake inhibitors: mescaline, LSD, shrooms, ibogaine.

Make sure your THH is pure and not contaminated with unconverted harmaline (which is a RIMA/maoi). Dab some THH on a wet cue tip, rub on paper plate, hold under blacklight, if it glows blue you have THH, if any green glow, you have harmaline in it, keep in mind harmine also glows blue too though.

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(0) Part 0: 12 reasons pure THH or tetrahydroharmine rocks
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1. Part 10 of this paper: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. TIHKAL THH entry also achieved 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted.

1. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115:
Quote:

Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.




In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.

2. She is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine. She is the 2nd highest alkaloid in Caapi. She has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, she is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline, few people have used her over 100mg. I have seen the receptorome chart for THH vs. mescaline. She not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors A1-A3 associated with beauty and aesthetic enhancement, just like mescaline. Beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included, she is diamondlike shimmering in her beauty.

Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.

8. This pure THH at 300mg all by herself is extremely visual, she's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally.

9. The entry in TIHKAL for 300mg THH is completely wrong, where the unexperienced person compares it to the effects of 100mg harmaline. She is nothing at all like harmaline, and like 69ron once said about the person's comment in TIHKAL, he or she would not be able to tell their ass from their elbow. I agree, what complete nonsense. Dr. Shulgin wrote that he never got the chance to try THH, but wrote that more studies on it are "badly needed."

10. professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Quote:

Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.




11. Trips (from here on 12/2/2011):
Quote:

As to how the THH altered the experience -> I find rue extract+DMT to be very similar to mushrooms. I found the THH added to the rue+DMT to shift the experience to a state much closer to that provided by LSD. It was more clear, more energetic, more focused, and when confusion struck it was definitely more "acid-like".




Espiridion:
Quote:

tetrahydroharmine is much more like mescaline.




The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this component of caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge.

At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of teaching closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged way-beyond 4k visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine, just as Gayle Highpine writes in linked paper:

12. Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher):
Quote:

The vine carries the content of the message, the teaching, and the insight. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts.




Tetrahydroharmine or THH ranks very high on the "periodic psychedelic table" among all the known entheogens for inducing realistic way beyond 4k monochrome teaching visions for hours...adding even small amounts of DMT brightens and colorizes the visions, example: reptiles, birds & animals such as serpents/snakes/toucans/parrots/jaguars with patterning show their respective associated colors. Many times I have viewed multi-colored serpents, birds & jaguars several times over hour long CEV periods, serpents are the manifest spirit of Ayahuasca.

Daniel Pinchbeck "Breaking Open the Head" (Daniel also states in his book, that Ayahuasca is his favorite entheogen):
Quote:

For many people, Ayahuasca-a slowed-down low-res interface of the DMT flash-seems to convey strong messages from the natural world, of nature as sentient energy and spirit matter, of the need to protect the planet we have been given.

Yage whispers that human beings are meant to be gardeners of this reality, journeyers, storytellers and singers, weavers of the sacred. DMT, on the other hand, conveys no overt human or humane message.




Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 428:
Quote:

My experience with smoked DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings Ayahuasca introduced me to. For whereas the Ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or to some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.




Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher):
Quote:

In the western world, Ayahuasca acquired a new definition: It was now, by definition, the combination of Banisteriopsis caapi and a DMT-containing plant. Ayahuasca became, by definition “orally active DMT.” The first anthropologist to adopt the new definition seems to have been Luis Eduardo Luna in 1984. Luna spent time with Terence McKenna, absorbing his perspective, before beginning his fieldwork. Since then, anthropologists have increasingly adopted this definition and filtered their observations through it. The preeminence of the Ayahuasca vine in the indigenous Amazonian world became the elephant in the living room of Ayahuasca studies, with a tacit agreement to pretend it doesn’t exist.

The leaves were Ayahuasca’s “helpers,” I was told, and their purpose was to “brighten and clarify” the visions. The vine is like a cave, and the leaf is like a torch you use to see what is inside the cave. The vine is like a book, and the leaf is like the candle you use to read the book.

The vine is like a snowy television set, and the leaf helps to tune in the picture. There was a subtle attitude that the need for strong leaf was the sign of a beginner: An experienced ayahuasquero could see the visions even in low light.

Ayahuasca vine is not visionary in the same way as DMT. Visions from vine-only brewsare shadowy, monochromatic, like silhouettes, or curling smoke, or clouds moving across the night sky. It is because their visions are usually monochromatic that vines are classified by the color of vision they produce: white, black, blue, red (in my experience, dark maroon).

Snakes, the most common vision on Ayahuasca, are considered the manifest spirit of the vine. Vine visions can be hard to see; in fact, the “visions” may not be visual at all, but auditory or somatic or intuitive. But the vine carries the content of the message, the teaching, and the insight.

The leaf helps illuminate the content, but the teachings are credited to the vine. Vine visions are “frequently associated with writing, to a code that is present in visions…or in the ‘books’ where the spirits keep the secrets of the forest.” (Calavia Saez 2011:135).

The vine is The Teacher, The Healer, The Guide. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts. This is why it is the vine, not the leaf, that is classified by the type of vision it gives. “For them the vine is, in truth, a living guide, a friend, a paternal authority” (Weiskopf 2005:104).

Listening to the Vine:
While I was living in the village, someone began the process of shamanic apprenticeship. There was a series of ceremonies with brews of special strength for that purpose; brews with enormous quantities of vine. About two to three pounds of fresh vine per person was used (about 25 to 35 times the amount needed for MAOI inhibition). Those were powerful experiences indeed.

Although the apprenticeship began with crushingly vine-heavy brews, the more the apprentice progressed, the weaker the brew he would need. He would learn to see the dimmest of visions. If he spent a full two years “fasting,” then eventually even smelling or tasting the brew, even touching an Ayahuasca plant, would be enough to visit her realms. On the other hand, he would learn to navigate the strongest of brews with clear focus, and be undistracted by any amount of DMT fireworks.




Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration

How this works: the Hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin molecule (HPBCD) has an inner hydrophobic cavity (repels water) which attracts & traps freebase molecules like DMT freebase inside it's tornado shaped cone. The outer cavity is hydrophilic (likes water) and thus makes the DMT molecule water-soluble. HPBCD, being a polysaccharide derived from the enzymatic degradation of starch, improves the penetration of the DMT freebase many factors over (studies show x 4 factors or 400%) into the sublingual mucosa under the tongue.

HPBCD, being a potent polysaccharide derived from the enzymatic degradation of starch, improves the penetration of the DMT freebase many factors over (studies show x 4 factors or 400%) into the sublingual mucosa under the tongue. HPBCD then releases the DMT as the potent freebase into the bloodstream once it crosses the sublingual mucosa, these reasons explain it's potency.

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work, and there is no penetration enhancement unless HPBCD is used to complex DMT in the freebase form only. The cyclodextrins have toroidal shapes, with the larger and the smaller openings of the toroid exposing to the solvent secondary and primary hydroxyl groups respectively.

You can order HPBCD from China no matter where you live as it is legal, and if you google "Europe + HPBCD" there are a couple places that sell it as well. It is very common in the USA from *mazon or auction sites.
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Complete instructions and pictures all updated for 1-1-2022 on sublingual HPBCD DMT & summary of over 44 sublingual experiences in a year's time, these experiences all much stronger than oral DMT by many factors. Zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety or un-easy feelings, deep head space, highly visual, strong open eyed and CEV's of spinning & dancing geometrics & real Ayahuasca visions, incredible music enhancement, way over the top open eyed beauty, neon colorful & highly euphoric, see trip reports at bottom...will continue to use for the rest of my life, highly recommend: Complete instructions and pictures all updated for 1-1-2022 on sublingual HPBCD DMT & summary of over 44 sublingual experiences in a year's time, these experiences all much stronger than oral DMT by many factors. Zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety or un-easy feelings, deep head space, highly visual, strong open eyed and CEV's of spinning & dancing geometrics & real Ayahuasca visions, incredible music enhancement, way over the top open eyed beauty, neon colorful & highly euphoric, see trip reports at bottom...will continue to use for the rest of my life, highly recommend.

My procedure:
1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for DMT doses of 90mg or below, use 12 drops of boiling hot water to mix DMT doses over 90mg (such as 100 to 120mg). 60mg DMT = +3 Shulgin level strength, 90 to 120mg = +5 Shulgin level life changing strength.
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of a spoon for 2 minutes, scrape & mix everything back and forth hard using your muscles. This is how scientist pre-pare these complexes by kneading.
6) Optional (you do not have to do this): Hold a lighter far away from under the spoon to heat up spoon for around 20 seconds or so, then pull flame away, this seems to aid dissolution or dissolving after heating up a slight bit, mix the contents a little bit more before using.
7) Take 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 45 minutes before...and take 200mg harmine orally around 45 minutes to 1 hour before...if you don't take harmine orally, then place 25 to 35mg of freebase harmine under your tongue. Then place bottom of your tongue onto HPBCD complexed DMT spoon, the HPBCD DMT glob will all adhere as HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes. Be sure to take the 35mg harmine and HPBCD DMT under tongue all at the exact same time in order to activate the DMT strongly.

Hold under tongue for 10 to 12 or 15 minutes depending on dosage, hold under tongue the whole time to trap sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa. Be sure to use bottom end of tongue to lick any off spoon that is left behind, you want to get it all.

At end of 15 minutes, spit out any saliva into a cup instead of swallowing. Gently relieve any saliva during the 15 minute period as comfort dictates by leaning your head forward and spitting into a cup, but keep your tongue pressed down any time you relieve saliva. There is a mild to moderate sting felt but it's so worth enduring for the effects which begin in 22 minutes or 1/2 the time of an oral dose (44 minutes). The sting does not bother me at all. The tongue is completely fine afterwards (no burn), and it's as if nothing happened the next day.

So long as the HPBCD DMT is used sublingually, there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, no delirium, crystal clear clarity like mescaline...there is something about DMT going thru the stomach that tends to induce nausea and weird uncomfortable strange feelings, just as L-dreamer mentions in post #2 of this thread at the very beginning. Same thing with me. It's also no where near as potent as sublingually used HPBCD DMT. Sublingual HPBCD DMT is at least x 5 times stronger than oral DMT.
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The combination of THH + DMT simulates true Ayahuasca, but there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero queasiness since there is no harmine or DMT going thru stomach and intestines. 22 minutes in there are heavy CEV's of spinning colored geometrics, visions of ancient architecture, animals, aliens, you name it, She seems to tap into the Akashic record of the ether in the Universe, where all past, present, and future is known. Open eyed profound beauty, music sounds incredible.

This all lasts for 90 minutes. You can re-dose more HPBCD DMT by two more times, around every 1.5 hours if you want. It remains just as effective as the first dose. The sublingual application is several factors stronger than oral DMT, and I've used oral DMT dozens of times.

Oral 300mg THH taken 1 hour earlier + sublingual 60 to 140mg HPBCD DMT journeys (over 44 of them over a year's time). This counts the two subsequent re-doses every 1.5 hour for the evening, for a 4.5 hour total strong journey with super-long afterglow.

With oral 150 to 300mg THH + sublingual 60-120mg HPBCD DMT + sublingual 35mg harmine fb, there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero un-easy feelings or anxiety, I tolerate this very well compared to oral DMT, extremely pleasurable experience, high spiritual euphoria.

First of all there was a deep head space, profound spiritual insights and revelations. I was seeing curtains of visuals in the doorway, closed eye neon spinning & dancing geometrics, music enhancement incredible, out of this world impossible neon colors (like neon yellow-purple) flashing on the walls, some times these colors on the walls would break up into fine lines like lazer beams, and paste themselves like hundreds of beams broadcast on the walls, concentric circle rings in the air, powerful lightening like tracers.

Open eyed beauty so over the top & infinite, actresses in movies looked like glowing, dazzling, super-colorful, cartoon versions of themselves, just like with high dose cactus tea, also zero anxiety just like mescaline. Euphoria was powerful, just like with high dose cactus tea.

Again with the sublingual: pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible.

On my very first 300mg oral THH + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT combined with 35mg sublingual harmine fb trip with 2 sublingual re-doses at each 1.5 hour mark (had not used DMT in several months)....all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the sublingual DMT/harmine and oral THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw that first night.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_at_Large

300mg of tetrahydroharmine (THH) is equated to the (CEV) power of 100mg harmaline, but without all the nausea and dizziness. It glows blue under blacklight, like LSD or psilocin & has a metallic-like lingering taste with a 10.5 hour half-life.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: page 5 of 16 under "Oral products, Kinetics":
Quote:

The oral bioavailability of cyclodextrins is very low in adult animals and humans (0.1–3%), except for RM-β-CD, which has a bioavailability of 12% in rats. Because of their bulky and hydrophilic nature only insignificant amounts of cyclodextrins are absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract by passive diffusion [33, 27].



This pharmacology has been used to potentiate these freebase drugs ORALLY as well -- in my experience, this results in an Ayahuasca experience that is strong in potency. Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.

I've used HPBCD complexed DMT orally three times stirred into a 1oz hot water tea (it dissolves instantly) with 150 to 300mg THH + 160 to 200mg harmine with a bit of citric acid to help the harmalas dissolve, and it's also way more potent than normal DMT freebase or salts used orally, very reminiscent of my over 70 Hawaiian psychotria brewed leaf teas, very strong & all encompassing. Trip report on page 2, post #25 of dmt nexus thread "HPBCD DMT" in Pharmahuasca section. 

But I vastly prefer the oral 150 to 300mg THH + sublingual Ayahuasca (35mg sublingual harmine fb + 60 to 100mg sublingual HPBCD DMT all taken at exact same time under tongue), many times stronger than oral DMT, and zero dizziness or un-easy feelings for me due to only 35mg harmine being used. Highly recommend for sensitive individuals like myself. Very strong & feels great all evening like mescaline, heavenly.

"Sublingual mucosa as a route for systemic drug delivery" by Narang & Sharma 2010:
https://innovareacademics.in/journal/ijpps/Vol3Suppl2/1092.pdf

As you can see from this sublingual viagra study, even 50 to 100mg doses can be administered under the tongue, the authors noting that less of the drug was required, and that it began working in only one half the normal time of an oral dose:

"The start of pharmacological activity after sublingual administration of sildenafil citrate in 30 patients affected by erectile dysfunction." by Siati & Franzolin 2003:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12741340/

Tetrahydroharmine on it's own will also yield the same type visions as harmaline, it just takes more of it. For example, around 300mg of THH will yield the same visions as about 100mg harmaline...even if the THH dose is split in two over several hours, the visions will still be apparent some time after the 2nd dose takes effect, the doses are additive.

THH in the caapi also seems to strongly activate the right hand hemisphere of the brain-- the side that performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts, feelings, visualizations, imagination, holistic thinking & intuition, empathy, spirituality & connectedness. Researchers found that the right side of the brain lit up in brain scans of people who took LSD, mescaline, or mushrooms. This includes tetrahydroharmine. The world is largely moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development.

Quote from TIHKAL by Dr. Shulgin "More studies on tetrahydroharmine are absolutely imperative."

References:

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D:
Quote:

Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.



I have years of experience with pure tetrahydroharmine, and it does indeed do this very well.

Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:
Quote:

You can't compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual harmine is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.



I use 35mg freebase harmine sublingually along with the sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT, 35mg sublingual has the power of x6 or 210mg oral harmine, but without the dizziness and un-easy feelings you often feel with an oral dose.

Dr. Narang:
Quote:

The absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection. Sublingual mucosa under tongue is only 100 to 200 microns thick.



In over 44 total sublingual experiences over a year's time, this sublingual route is many times more potent than oral DMT. The only way I use it.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: under "Kinetics":
Quote:

Cyclodextrins at high doses can increase drug permeability by direct action on mucosal membranes and enhance drug absorption and/or bioavailability. These effects are possibly caused by solubilisation of membrane lipids through inclusion complexation with cyclodextrins and the ability of cyclodextrins to cause perturbation of membrane integrity. However, unlike detergents, cyclodextrins solubilize membrane components without entering into the membrane, therefore the perturbing effects of cyclodextrins are mild and reversible [7].Cyclodextrins are absorbed poorly via mucosal membranes.



HPBCD enhances the drug permeability of guest complexed drug, but the cyclodextrins themselves are poorly absorbed via the sublingual mucosa.

Pic 1: How to mix the DMT, HPBCD, and drops of very hot water on a spoon.

Pic 2: 1kg container of HPBCD from China for cheap. 2-hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin is the more common form available, works the exact same.

Pic 3: Sublingual mucosa under tongue only 100 to 200 microns thick.

Pic 4: 300mg pure THH for oral use in weigher, 35mg harmine fb for sublingual use next to it, 60mg dmt fb in spoon, 420mg HPBCD white powder above it, coffee mug of near boiling hot water, medicine dropper pipette, Bic lighter.

Pic 5: 60mg DMT was covered with x 7 or 420mg HPBCD powder and 10 drops of near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug was added, and all mashed and stirred well for 2 minutes, then Bic lighter held under spoon until the solution just started to boil (20 seconds or so), then pull flame away, notice how well the DMT complexed inside the HPBCD.

Take 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine 45 minutes earlier orally, place 35mg harmine under tongue, then place tongue on to HPBCD complexed DMT spoon, it will all adhere for sublingual use. Journey starts in 22 minutes after application and lasts x 90 minutes, at which time you can re-dose x 2 more times, each dose just as strong as 1st dose for a 4.5 hour long strong journey with super-long afterglow. Instructions, 5 hour CEV trip report and 9 pics here on post #1.
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Stay true to yourself, Love, Peace and Music
http://www.friskyradio.com











Edited by tregar (02/17/23 06:06 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278400 - 04/22/21 05:59 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)
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Igorcarajo said:
Quote:

Instead of the harmine sublingual, have you tried orally ingested harmine, maybe at the same time as THH, 45 minutes before the sublingual HPBCD-complexed DMT?




Thanks for joining in the discussion igorcarajo, seen you reading for some time. Great question igorcarajo, in fact, out of the 44 times I've used the sublingual HPBCD DMT over a year's time, the time I took 300mg pure tetrahydroharmine (THH) + 200mg harmine fb at the same time orally in capsules, then around an hour later took 90mg of sublingual HPBCD DMT (held under tongue for 15 minutes) was the most powerful experience visually with open eyes, and the deepest headspace yet encountered.

For some reason, the sublingual HPBCD DMT was many factors more powerful than any dosage of oral HPBCD DMT. It was many factors stronger, around x5 times. It was so powerful that I saw curtains of neon-colored visuals in the open doorway when I looked to my right. Everything in all directions was surrounded by brilliant neon-colored rainbows, the euphoria and music enhancement was very powerful.

Open-eyed beauty was beyond belief, divine and infinite. The tracers were so powerful, that they went on forever like a hall of mirrors into the distance, and instead of there just being muliples of my hands when I waved them, there were beautiful colored fractals inside the tracer smears.

In my trip diary that night, I documented this as the most powerful sublingual experience of my life. There was zero nausea, dizziness or anxiety as well, very impressed. The 200mg of harmine was so powerful, that I continued by taking a 2nd dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT again 2 hour laters after the 1st dose, and it again worked just as strong as the first dose. With closed eyes were seen brightly colored Ayahuasca visions, in my diary I noted that I saw close to a hundred rapidly changing visions from Egpytian scenery to elaborate art carvings in stone, way beyond 4k in detail. This resulted in a +5 strength Shulgin level journey with life changing consequences.

The harmine having a half-life of from 1 to 3 hours, did not die off until around 5 hours later, so each time I took a re-dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT for the evening, it continued to work very strongly. I highly recommend this approach as you brought up in your question, and plan to use the oral harmine again with the oral THH again soon (next week again), but only using the HPBCD DMT sublingually as noted above.
-------------------------------------------------------
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1137474#post1137474
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1137474#post1137474
"Sublingual DMT + oral THH - surprising and underrated"

L-dreamer said:
Quote:

Making this thread so that I can post my thoughts on the dosing method described in this thread
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
My few experiences have consisted of about 60 mg of freebase DMT dissolved in 500 mg of HPBCD, with 250-300 mg of THH, and about 35 mg of sublingual harmala/harmaline

From the start I want to say that sublingual DMT with oral THH is everything I wanted ayahuasca/pharmahuasca to be. And I think it is also the best way for someone to be introduced to DMT
Where do I start with the pros
- no nausea at all, even if you take sublingual harmine/harmaline with it. It is such an odd and pleasant feeling to not have to fight constant nausea and vomit inducing dizziness. I literally don't have to worry about having a handy throwup bucket like I did with typical oral DMT.
- just the right kind of duration, it never overstays it's welcome, in about an hour you will get whatever you had to receive. No need for a bedridden 2+ h long comedown
- crisp, clear headspace. Previous oral DMT experiences have always given me this pinch of delirium and sleepiness to my mental state. But with this combo and I am fully present in it
- no come-up anxiety, the transition is gradual and smooth
- the DMT visuals are there, and in one experience they seemed even more glowing, or with actual real-life landscapes or persons assembling before my vision instead of the usual DMT geometry
- your body will love to move to the music you are listening
- let's say you accidental swallow the DMT solution or the saliva build-up becomes unbearable - you will still have a pharmahuasca experience with less if not any nausea. And also this form of oral DMT seems to absorb way better than a typical pharmahuasca
- you need less DMT than the typical pharmahuasca
- if you aborted the experience (saliva build-up that you spit out) you will now in about 25-30 minutes for sure, and then you can try again with the same DMT dosage, it won't stack like in pharmahuasca where it can sometimes take even 2 hours to enter fully

Now the cons:
- the saliva build-up can abort your start or break it's knees. Now if you swallow the solution you will still get a top-tier pharmahuasca trip, I repeat again, with barely any nausea. I tried with some cotton rolls in my mouth to stop the saliva pooling around the DMT solution but it was useless. Next thing I want to try are some saliva pads dentists use: either I trap the solution between the pad and the mouth floor, or I infuse the pads with the DMT solution, put the pad to the cheek mucosa or sublingual mucosa, and enjoy the slow release of DMT (even your lips can absorb this stuff pretty well, one of these days I will use the solution as ointment only for the lips to test it)
- and that is pretty much it, I can't think of any other cons of this way of taking DMT

With that in mind here are some questions that could be explored in the future
- how to get consistently the neon-glowing visions, they feel like such an eye-candy that your eyes feel compelled to see in all their beauty; is it a certain THH treshhold? less harmine/harmaline or more sublingual harmine/harmaline?
- do we really need the mouth floor? can I just smear this on my lips, inner cheek, upper gums or mouth top since with these there is not saliva problem?

I still can't believe people aren't all over this method, especially beginners. It is so versatile and maybe even "comfortable". It is worth experimenting only on it for me, goodbye throw bucket and tissues next to my bed, goodbye retching and holding in the taste of earthy vomit, goodbye 5 hour long sedation and diziness that takes up your entire day.
I predict in a short time sublingual DMT will have it's separate section on the Nexus.



L-dreamer said:
Quote:

- how to get consistently the neon-glowing visions, they feel like such an eye-candy that your eyes feel compelled to see in all their beauty; is it a certain THH treshhold? less harmine/harmaline or more sublingual harmine/harmaline?



Once again, thanks for your amazing post L-dreamer, and keep up the great work. In answer to this important question, I always use 300mg of very pure home-made tetrahydroharmine (made easily from harmaline in 1.5 hour). You can sometimes find harmaline on-line if you don't want to start from rue seed scratch. 35mg sublingual harmine has power of around x6 or 210mg oral harmine. 60mg HPBCD dmt = + 3 Shulgin level strength, and 90mg HPBCD dmt = + 5 Shulgin level strength.

The fact that one of your experiences involved seeing actual real-life landscapes and persons assembling before your vision instead of the usual DMT geometry only indicates you are in the realm of actual Ayahuasca visions. You will find that many of the Ayahuasca visions begin with dancing & morphing geometry but these then progress to actual colored beautiful teaching visions, each time you see a new phase of geometrics many times indicates a transition to more phenomenal Ayahuasca visions, just as Benny Shanon remarks in "Antipodes of the Mind". I have found this to be true.

Always test any THH you may acquire elsewhere. For example, there is a THH many are using that is made in China, with several reports of it not glowing blue when a bit is rubbed on a wet q-tip and smeared on a paper palate, and the plate held under blacklight. Pure tetrahydroharmine glows light blue like LSD under UV light, any green in the glow indicates unconverted harmaline. Five reports so far from nexus people saying it glows green instead of blue like pure THH even though the paperwork indicates over 98% pure. THH never converts back to harmaline once made and remains stable indefintely, so this tells me the initial synthesis on those particular batches was incomplete.

As a long time chemist, I take purity seriously, and so should everyone. What would happen if THH with contaminated un-converted harmaline in it was mixed with LSD at same time like I often do for an incredible journey (feels like a combo of LSD + mescaline as THH is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline in many ways). It would not be a fun journey like it normally is when using pure THH. Always be careful. Test your THH, even home-made to make sure it is pure.

Pure THH at 300mg results in neon-glowing visions with open or closed eyes in every one of my 44 total oral 300mg THH + 35mg sublingual harmine + 90mg HPBCD DMT held at exact same time under tongue journeys. These 44 times count the 2 subsequent re-doses every 1.5 hour for a strong 4.5 hour experience with super long afterglow beyond that.

Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the pure THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral pure THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. The combo of THH + DMT is like listening to music on high-dose cactus tea, heavenly.

Again with the sublingual: pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible.

Here is an example of the glowing CEV visions you see when using pure THH:

On my very first 300mg oral THH + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT combined with 35mg sublingual harmine fb trip with 2 sublingual re-doses at each 1.5 hour mark (had not used DMT in several months)....all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the sublingual DMT/harmine and oral THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw that first night.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ava69 wrote:
Quote:

Always test any THH you may acquire elsewhere. For example, there is a THH many are using that is made in China, with several reports of it not glowing blue when a bit is rubbed on a wet q-tip and smeared on a paper palate, and the plate held under blacklight. Pure tetrahydroharmine glows light blue like LSD under UV light, any green in the glow indicates unconverted harmaline. Five reports so far from nexus people saying it glows green instead of blue like pure THH even though the paperwork indicates over 98% pure. THH never converts back to harmaline once made and remains stable indefintely, so this tells me the initial synthesis on those particular batches was incomplete.



L-dreamer said:
Quote:

The THH I have does not glow blue (it did not come with a purity certificate), but it definitely is not harmine or harmaline since it does not give nausea at all. Taking more than 300 mg of it makes me a bit dizzy and that's it. And post experience I do feel the typical calmness or composure I got from previous aya drinks.




Thanks for the update. In answer to your question, using pure 300mg THH (which glows light blue) will most assuredly give you the glowing Ayahuasca visions consistently. Bottom of post #2 shows THH glow under blacklight:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1103282&#post1103282
I would recommend making your own, take care, all the best.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Closing tips:

In the 44 times I've used 60 to 90mg HPBCD DMT sublingually under tongue, my tongue felt 100% fine the next day, no burn, completely normal, as if nothing was used the night before. 60mg HPBCD dmt = + 3 Shulgin level strength, and 90mg HPBCD dmt = + 5 Shulgin level strength.

Make sure there is no sodium hydroxide contamination in your dmt before you complex it, as any remnants of it will surely burn, it helps to use a long glass pipette with rubber bulb and 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask (heat resistant & tapers at top for easy pull) when extracting, this will ensure no accidental grabbing of any lye water, ie contamination...and make sure the dmt is complexed to the HPBCD as well as you can, as freebase dmt without being complexed might possibly burn as well.

My only other suggestion, is to just stir the HPBCD complexed DMT from off the spoon into 1oz of microwaved hot water (120 degree F) for oral Ayahuasca use, it dissolves instantly, and you will notice the water remains transparent due to the remarkable dissolution. Then just take a capsule full of 160 to 200mg harmine + 100 to 300mg THH at exact same time you drink the 1oz HPBCD DMT water tea. The harmalas can be in freebase form, work just fine. Take all at exact same time as the Shaman's do for strongest effects.

The HPBCD masks the taste of the nasty DMT freebase very well when used orally in a tea, and even helps to reduce gastrointestinal irritation by the freebase DMT. I was shocked in my oral use as there was virtually no taste, and zero nausea.

Using it orally works very well, used it this way x 3 times. It's many factors stronger than normal dmt freebase or salts used orally, as the HPBCD increases drug penetration x 4 factors or 400% into not only sublingual mucosa but intestinal tissues as well. 80mg HPBCD DMT Oral trip report on page 2, post #25.

One last note: make sure you have not used dmt in any form within the past 2 weeks, as this will ensure 90 minutes of very strong activity, and each dose thereafter for the evening will be just as strong as the first dose and last just as long.

Harmine and THH together are both important, just as Dr. Mckenna mentions for preventing the inactivation of DMT by MAO localized in mitrochondria within the cells of the brain, these both prevent zapping of the DMT, and greatly extend the half-life of the DMT several times over, just like with real oral Ayahuasca, as Benny Shanon mentions in "Antipodes of the Mind"..."there is always 90 minutes of very strong activity", this has been my experience as well when your tolerance is low.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: Page 11 of 16:
Quote:

According to the data in section 2 one can conclude that below 20 mg/kg/day no serious adverse effects are to be expected for all routes of administration and no statement is deemed necessary.

Above 20 mg/kg/day, cyclodextrins may show some activity, and because there are insufficient safety data in children below two years old, it is advisable to inform about the quantity of cyclodextrin in the product and that for use in children below two years old, a doctor’s recommendation is needed.

Above 200 mg/kg/day cyclodextrins may theoretically cause problems in the digestive system when given orally, and cause mild renal toxicity when given parenteral, which information can be given. Depending on the amount, cyclodextrins may influence the Cyclodextrins used as excipients permeability of tissues and therefore the bioavailability of active substances given topically (nasal, rectal, dermal, sublingual, ocular).




This is exactly the way I use the HPBCD sublingually, when I complex 90mg DMT to (x7) or 630mg of HPBCD, and I re-dose two more times every 1.5 hour, I am using 1890mg of HPBCD for the evening. I weigh 95kg, so I am using less than 20mg/kg/day or less than 1900mg per day. This always gives me a 4.5 hour long +5 Shulgin level strength experience with super-long afterglow. Very similar to 600mg of mescaline.

Pic 1: use a 1:1 molar ratio HPBCD to DMT

pic 2: 300mg of pure THH for oral use taken 45 minutes before, not shown: 35mg of freebase harmine for sublingual use taken at exact same time under tongue as the 0.5ml (10 drop) 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg HPBCD stored in a 3ml syringe if desired. Locking syringe caps prevent spillage.

Two re-dose syringes at the 1.5 hour point can be "back-filled" by removing plunger & pouring spoon's HPBCD complexed DMT solution down the syringe. Schematic showing sublingual mucosa only 100 to 200 microns thick.

Pic 3: Pure tetrahydroharmine glows pale blue under blacklight like LSD or psilocin, harmaline reduces to tetrahydroharmine by gaining a hydrogen atom. THH never converts back to harmaline but remains stable indefinitely. Tetrahydroharmine is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine, remarkable way beyond 4k monochrome (blue or green for me) closed eye teaching visions at 300mg for hours. No sedation, pleasant stimulation like mescaline. Adding even small amounts of sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT adds color to the visions.

Pic 4: Serpents are the manifest spirit of Ayahuasca

A few additional pics & from article "Return of the Serpent & of Eden" link given near bottom of post #1:

Top left: Egyptian Goddesses Isis (Cobra) & Serapis: depicted as Sacred Serpents

Top middle: Shipibo Ayahuasca Tapestry: The Vase representing the Amazonian Medicine, The Serpents that of the Grandmother Spirit of Ayahuasca

Top middle: Cosmic Serpent: Book by Jeremy Narby

Top right: Mayan ruins

Bottom left: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl

Bottom middle: Aztec Serpent Moon Goddess (Coyolxauhqui). Other Aztec Serpent Symbols include: Quetzalcoatl (Feathered Serpent), Xiuhcoatl (Fire Serpent), Mixcoatl (Cloud Serpent), and Coatlicue (She with Serpent Skirt)

Bottom right: Kundalini Serpent Pathway

Bottom right: Shiva & Shakti: Siddhi Level of Divine Masculine & Feminine Balance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Receptorome study: how traditional Ayahuasca & snuffs differ from dmt:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83164
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83164

This is why I suggest taking the DMT with tetrahydroharmine (as found in true Ayahuasca):

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
hxxp://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max or "off the charts", 0.00=min

Quote:

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (make up >80% of brain 5-ht)
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69 (sensual & entactogenic)
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69 (novelty & new ideas)
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2a)
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2b)
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2c)




2011 Thomas S. Ray study: Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min
Quote:

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00


(these serotonin filters/gates/barriers/doors make up >80% of brain 5-ht & are broken down when 5-ht1a is agonized)

This study from Mol Pharmacol. 1988 Feb;33(2):178-86. backs up the above study from Thomas S. Ray:

Pharmacology of 5-hydroxytryptamine-1A receptors which inhibit cAMP production in hippocampal and cortical neurons in primary culture. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2828913
Quote:

5-HT1A agonist: All the tryptamine derivatives substituted in position 5 of the indol were potent agonists [5-HT, 5-CT, 5-MeO-N,N-DMT, 5-methoxytryptamine, and bufotenine (5-ho-DMT)],

whereas tryptamine, N-methyltryptamine, and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) were poor agonists.




Dr. Nichols (Heffter.org LSD paper):
Quote:

LSD has very strong potency in blocking the action of serotonin. LSD is strongly "anti-serotonin". The morpholide lysergamide cousin had only about 1/10th the potency in blocking serotonin. Of the 5 diferent dialkylamides we studied LSD was the most potent and specific serotonin antagonist. 5-ht1a makes up >80% of brain 5-ht receptors



An example of the importance of adding the serotonin reuptake inhibition properties of 5-meo-dmt for example to dmt (which has poor 5-ht1 reuptake properites on it's own) is shown below. This is the same way the snuff's are used in the amazon, as they naturally combine dmt with additives which cause the reuptake of 5-ht like bufotenin for example.

Oroc's experiment of combining 5-meo-dmt with DMT sounds imho very much like a short beautiful transcendental Ayahuasca experience, from his book "Tryptamine Palace":

DMT + tiny amounts of 5-meo-dmt [perhaps similar theoretically to Amazonian snuffs which have a makeup of 7.4% bufotenin (potent 5-ht1a agonist), 0.04% 5-MeO-DMT (potent 5-ht1a agonist) & 0.16% DMT (poor potency as 5-ht1a agonist):
Quote:

As an experiment (and in a foreign land) I smoked the last of the Bufo alvarius venom (the story of whose collection is described within the pages of Tryptamine Palace) with some ‘regular’ DMT (extracted from Jurema Preta.). In the vast majority of my early nigerine (DMT) experiences, I encountered visual fields of ‘dots’ that would come together to form images, much like the pointillism style of painting developed by Georges Seurat or the Australian Aboriginal song-line paintings.

** With the addition of the 5-MeO-DMT containing toad-venom to the DMT however, the visual characteristic was completely different and totally unique to my experiences so far. On this occasion there was a complete lack of ‘dots’ or ‘points’ of any kind, the fine lines of the constantly changing imagery were like those painted with a single-hair brush on Tibetan thangkas and due to the overwhelming artistry of what I was seeing, I could only think of the vaulted ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in comparison.

Sistene Chapel: This was without a doubt the most ‘visionary’ experience I have ever been fortunate enough to encounter and I lay there with my eyes shut watching the most fantastic parade of the Collective Unconsciousness imaginable, wishing that it would never end, and as I sit here now I can not even describe one tiny corner of it, since every image in the multitude of imagery was in such constant motion that they defied all but a glimpse. And then moments later, like a tent collapsing when its ropes are cut, the vision is gone. Leaving only a struggle of words to explain it, since nothing before or after has come close to this experiences visual majesty.



As we go thru day to day life, the 5-ht1a brain serotonin filters (gates, or day to day survival filters as I like to call them) which make up over 80% of brain 5-ht are in place so that we will not be overwhelmed by the perception of the way things would appear to an un-filtered mind, or "Mind at Large" as Aldous Huxley describes it in "Doors of Perception" as "infinite or eternal". He also referred to the visions as coming from "the other world" in his book "Moksha". I prefer to think of it in similar terms as well "the spirit world" or "the other world": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_at_Large

5-ht1a inhibition by entheogens (in green above) theoretically cause this filter system to be lifted, and the infinite mind to manifest in combination with oral dmt with the tetrahydroharmine providing the 5-ht1a inhibition & additional adrenal system agonization (A2A thru A2C), just as bufotenine in snuff's provide the 5-ht1a inhibition combined with the dmt in the snuff's, resulting in a 3 hour experience ie both examples of Teamwork on how these entheogens are used traditionally in the Amazon.

Thomas S. Ray's study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate. Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

Tetrahydroharmine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is an SRI found in caapi. In other words, both are strong serotonin reuptake inhibitors which inhibit over 80% of brain 5-ht at 5-ht1a.

In contrast, as an example, Cocaethylene (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, the orally active & potent ingredient formed in the liver from cocaine + ethanol in the 1860's "Vin Mariani" wine popular with both Popes, Thomas Edison and scores of other famous people) increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor [SNDRI; also known as a "triple reuptake inhibitor"].

Cocaethylene has a higher affinity for the dopamine transporter than does cocaine, but has a lower affinity for the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters. In McCance-Katz et alia's 1993 study cocaethylene "produced greater subjective ratings of 'High' in comparison with administration of cocaine or alcohol alone."

69ron on harmalas:
Quote:

Ayahuasca is Banisteriopsis caapi. It contains mostly harmine and tetrahydroharmine (THH). B. caapi itself contains no DMT and can be used as is to produce visionary states that are like mental day dreams which lack true visual content. Often admixtures are used to increase the visual content of the ayahuasca dreams. Most admixture plants contain DMT.

Harmine & THH used alone, can produce a mild dreamy psychedelic experience in which daydreams or lucid dreams can be experienced if the user chooses to do so. These dreams from the harmalas alone are vague and lack visual content, but usually have story lines and can be quite complex just like a real dream. The harmalas allow one to go in and out of dream consciousness at will. It takes some practice to learn how to enter a lucid dream with the harmalas alone. The harmalas won’t make you enter a lucid dream. You have to do it yourself by allowing your mind to drift off into a lucid dream.

DMT used alone, produces an intense visual experience, often very chaotic and fast moving, and quite amazing to watch. The visions of DMT alone usually lack meaningful content. The DMT visions are often just constantly morphing colors and shapes. Most of it makes absolutely no sense. Rarely will the visuals present to you a full blown dream with people, places, a story line, etc. But this does sometimes happen. But usually you just get a bunch of bazaar visions that are difficult to understand.

When combined, as in Ayahuasca, the harmalas brings a dreamy quality to the DMT experience that makes it more like one is experiencing an actual dream, not just a bunch of fancy colors. With the two together, you have the visuals of DMT, plus the dream content of the harmalas. The harmalas are the boss here in this combination if used in Ayahuasca proportions where the harmalas are not just used as an MAOI but is used specifically to allow dream consciousness to be entered by the user. DMT is just an additive used to increase the visual portion of the harmala induced dreams.

Using harmalas in very low doses, just as an MAOI, is not the same as using properly made Ayahuasca. If the harmalas are used in low doses just for it’s MAOI effects, the trip lacks dream content and is just a bunch of bazaar DMT visual effects. This is not Ayahuasca-like, it’s just orally activated DMT. That’s not the same. Its true that some Ayahuasca is prepared this way, but such Ayahuasca is considered inferior by most natives. With Ayahuasca, the DMT is just an additive, not the main course. This is why Ayahausca made with only caapi is still called Ayahuasca and considered nearly as powerful as Ayahuasca made with additive plants containing DMT.

This is something a lot of people don’t get. Ayahuasca is not simple orally activated DMT. It is the dream consciousness effects of the harmalas that are at play in Ayahuasca. In order to experience lucid dreams from harmine + THH without DMT, you need to practice a lot. But once you know how to do it, you don’t need DMT added to it anymore, unless you want the extra visual depth that DMT adds to the dreams.

So, “Dmt Or Ayahuasca?”, well that question is a personal question. Some people prefer DMT-less ayahuasca. Some people prefer just orally activated DMT. Some people prefer Ayahuasca with a side order of DMT. Some people prefer the truly bazaar effects of smoked DMT alone.

My personal opinion is that DMT alone is FUN and can be quite frightening. It’s like a roller coaster ride and I like roller coasters. But don’t expect a deep meaningful life changing experience from it. Its pure visual FUN and nothing more. If I want a more meaningful experience I’d use an oral Ayahuasca extract, or a smoked Yopo extract (not as effective as ayahuasca because Yopo is low on harmala-like alkaloids)

Authentic Ayahuasca, high in harmine & THH, and low on DMT, is like entering a full blown 3D dream with dream characters, storylines, etc. This can be a life changing experience. It’s more like sitting in a theater for several hours absorbing a story that’s meaningful because its about you. You leave with memories of places, things, people, etc., and possibly a new view on life.




Edited by tregar (02/07/22 06:23 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278401 - 04/22/21 06:01 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)
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Part 3: 300mg Tetrahydroharmine (THH) teaching visions all by itself
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The Ayahuasca closed eye visions using 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine or THH and HPBCD complexed DMT (30mg on up) together surpass in magnificence anything I have ever seen in reality or in works of art.

With open eyes, all spiritual things such as nature, art, female form, beauty, joy, take on significant meaning with infinite beauty, just like with cactus or LSD. Extraordinary beauty is manifested with open eyes and with the visions one sees with closed eyes. Impossible neon-like colors are seen that don't exist on this Earth.

The existence of a higher spiritual plane is recognized to which insight can and must be gained, yet it does not reject the mundane reality as inferior or empty. This joyous embracement of the world of form leads to words like infinite pleasure, beauty and joy. This loving reappraisal of the worldly forms leads the way to higher divine planes.

At 9pm one night, took another 100mg of THH, for a total of 350mg of THH for afternoon & night, before I fell asleep, I watched dream-like monochrome imagery (usually always in green or blue for me) as the THH was still working...I viewed mind-blowing vistas--grand architecture and cities, a bookshelf full of ancient books, a view of the gardens in front of what looked like Versailles, France.

I traveled down a street in Midieval period where I saw beautiful women walking along the street, I could make out the houses & markets along the street. Many of these visions are like slow speed movies being played, way beyond 4k, highly detailed...true Ayahuasca visions...this always happens when I take at least 300mg or more of tetrahydroharmine during the late afternoon/early night. This is one of the best parts of the journey imho.

I've taken 300mg of THH on it's own many times and for hours with eyes closed I view endless dream-like visions, like slow and high speed movies being played for several hours...totally unlike normal dreams, she seems to tap into the "Akashic record" of the universe, the ether where all events, past, present, and future are stored...she shows you artwork, architecture, nature, culture, fantasy, history, the future, spiritual, supernatural. The visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest.

Tetrahydroharmine was called by one researcher "the tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" to give an example of her remarkable visionary properties. She is an isomer of a hormonal-like compound found in the brain naturally, she is what gives Ayahuasca her telapathine or telethapy properties and CEV dream-like visionary power.

300mg THH in Caapi is just as visual as 100mg harmaline but without the nausea and dizziness. At 300mg she gives one several hours of incredible closed eye realistic visions, this places her very high on the "psychedelic periodic table" for visions compared to just about any other entheogen.

It's like entering a university, she teaches you for hours with not only sequential visions one after another, but visions seen in continuous slow and high speed movies. She tells you a story for a long period. There is a theme to it all each time, the beautiful visions never repeat session to session. I only rarely go beyond 300mg THH, as a little dizziness sets in above 300mg for sure. No dizziness at 250mg, only a tiny bit at 300mg.

Several weeks ago, after drinking 300mg tetrahydroharmine, I saw the interior decorations of palaces, the checkered floors, the beautiful windows and furniture, the winding stair cases, I was blown away.

I've seen sacred temples for religious worship, beautiful animals and super fine women, birds of all kinds, even the lost city of Atlantis, I was taken in for a bird's eye view, zooming in from way above to all the way down into the city center.

Caapi tells a story when you drink it with eyes closed, she teaches you things, the most beautiful "realistic visions" that no other entheogen comes close to showing you, these realistic visions go on forever with Caapi, I can recline and watch for 2 hours or more the visions, the visions are quite powerful. You can take additional THH hours later to bring back the visions again for another 45 minutes, the doses are additive.

Pic: 300mg of THH showed me closed eye vision of gardens at Versailles, France


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 12:09 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278402 - 04/22/21 06:02 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)
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Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
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A little off topic, but I think tetrahydroharmine is a pretty special compound. I've used 250mg of it to potentiate cactus to very strong levels, it makes a 12" medium san pedro cactus tea which may contain around 250mg mescaline feel like an X-large 12" thick san pedro cactus containing around 400mg mescaline. It makes a 12" thick bridgesii cactus feel closer to a tea made with a 12" bridgesii cactus along with an extra 6" piece.

In the data I've seen for THH, it strongly blocks serotonin just like cactus, but also agonizes the adrenal A2A thru A2C receptors (the receptors associated with aesthetics & beauty), just like mescaline has been shown to do receptorome wise, explaining perhaps why they "overlap" so well. THH being able to make mescaline in cactus feel much stronger than it really is. Anyone who has ever taken cactus or high dose THH knows the appreciation for beauty experienced is "over the top".

But you have to stagger the THH from the cactus by taking the tetrahydroharmine around an hour after the cactus is taken, that way any minor maoi's or rima's in the cactus won't interact with the SRI which is THH, which can result in a faster heartbeat for a few hours which has happened to me before...so long as you take it later, it potentiates the cactus quite incredibly...it feels like I've taken 400mg of mescaline containing cactus tea when it's really only 250mg mescaline containing cactus, and they both lasts around 6 hours with super strong activity, so they wind down at around the same time. I have around 7 months experience combining the two, giving myself around 2 weeks apart from journeys.

It works so well, I won't take cactus any other way from now on. I get much more mileage from cactus this way. Visuals and visions are insane, music is so good sounding, you would think you were an alien experiencing sound and music for the very first time, every instrument stands out on it's own, like hearing a track for the very first time.

Always take the san pedro, bridgesii or torch cactus first (they all contain trace maoi like actives)...then take the THH one hour later, in that order, then the journey is pure bliss and no negative interactions. Beautiful combo beyond belief, just like the combo of THH + LSD or THH + mushrooms. 


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 12:10 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27278404 - 04/22/21 06:02 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

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Part 5: Chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD complexed prohormones for sublingual use (millions of dollars in sales) & bloodwork studies
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Several years ago, before "prohormones" were banned (they were legal for 10 years), there was a company called "Ergopharm" ran by chemist Patrick Arnold. Ergopharm had sales in the millions due to their hot selling HPBCD complexed 4-androstenediol (Cyclodiol, see attached pic).

Patent granted to Patrick Arnold:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Arnold

In 2001 Arnold's company introduced the prohormone 4-Androstenediol, under the marketing name 4-AD. 4-AD is a prohormone that is easily converted by the body into testosterone at a rate of 95%, and it sold well. He is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM).

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/ask-patrick-arnold-11/
hxxps://thinksteroids.com/articles/ask-patrick-arnold-11/

I bought and used the sublingual HPBCD cyclodiol when it became available and it was very effective, had my testosterone level checked with a blood test at the local labcore one hour after administering the sublingual powder under my tongue (dissolved in less than 10 minutes) and it was 3,500 ng/dl ! when my normal level was 600ng/dl. Highest measured normal levels in men are around 1200 ng/dl. The blood test cost me $70.00. The sublingual HPBCD complexed pro-hormone would cause the 4-ad to enter the bloodstream via sublingual mucosa under tongue, and convert to testosterone via enzyme activity once in the bloodstream. Patrick invented the pro-hormone 4-ad or 4-androstenediol, which converts to testosterone at a rate of 95%.

Patrick Arnold's sublingual powder of HPBCD complexed 4-AD could be grabbed from the bottle with a pre-measured scooper, and the powder need only be held under tongue for less than 10 minutes. The HPBCD complexed DMT on the other hand dissolves in 15 minutes or less under tongue, as it is a slightly higher dosage.

Before Patrick started his company, he used to post on "deja-news" bodybuilding news group (defunct now but bought out and owned currently by Google) and would explain to bodybuilders how to complex HPBCD powder to 4-androstenediol at home using a spoon, drops of hot water, end of another spoon to mix and crush all ingredients together, lighter to heat up, etc. I learned his technique back then, and created my own HPBCD complexed 4-ad for sublingual use just like hundreds of other bodybuilders who read his postings and asked questions daily, there are logs of this that would fill up a book.

Later, the pharmaceutical industry picked up on his idea and started marketing sublingual HPBCD testosterone base (read the 3 studies in the link above from Patrick's column at MesoRx midway thru), which worked remarkably well to raise the testosterone of hypogonadal men to the high-normal level when absorbed under the tongue.

Pic: Ergopharm's hot selling cyclodiol powder, HPBCD complexed 4-androstenediol, when used sublingually, converted into testosterone at a rate of 95% via enzyme activity once it quickly entered the bloodstream from the sublingual mucosa.


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:28 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27278405 - 04/22/21 06:05 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

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Part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
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With Insufflation, sublingual or rectal, DMT is not broken down by monoamine oxidase.

However, tetrahydroharmine and harmine both work to block the inactivation of DMT by MAO localized within the mitochondria of the cells of the brain, this also greatly extends the half-life of the DMT.

See above paper from Narang et al, Intl J Pharm Sci, Vol 3, Suupl 2, 2011, 18-22:
"With sublingual or "under the tongue", the mucosea thickness is only 100-200, high permeability with rich blood supply, much better than buccal or gingival & palatal, 200, 250, 500 micrometer respectively, shuttling the drug directly to bloodstream." The DMT is not broken down via monamine oxidase whatsoever this way. It avoids the liver and first pass metabolism. The drug is rapidly absorbed via the rich blood supply vessels under the tongue rather than being broken down in the digestive track via the enzyme monamine oxidase. According to paper: "Sublingually administered drugs reach directly in to the blood stream through the ventral surface of the tongue and floor of the mouth. The drug solutes are rapidly absorbed into the reticulated vein which lies underneath the oral mucosa, and transported through the facial veins, internal jugular vein, and braciocephalic vein and then drained in to systemic circulation."

According to paper, "the absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection. Peak blood levels of most products administered sublingually are achieved within 10 to 15 minutes, which is generally much faster than when those same drugs are ingested orally." This has been my experience as well, after 10 minutes of sublingual under tongue application, 5 minutes after the 10 minute sublingual absorption, the DMT rush is felt, followed by 60 to 90 minutes of entheogenic activity. According to paper, "sublingual absorption of drugs is efficient. The percent of each dose absorbed is generally higher than that achieved by means of oral ingestion."

Smoked: If DMT is smoked, the maximal effects last for a short period of time (5 to 30 minutes, dose-dependent). The onset after inhalation is very fast (less than 45 seconds) and maximal effects are reached within about a minute.

Insufflation & Sublingual absorption via Oral Mucosa (under tongue): When DMT is insufflated (snorted through the nostrils) or absorbed sublingually the duration is markedly increased.

Injection: Injected DMT produces an experience similar to inhalation in duration, intensity, and characteristics.

Oral ingestion: DMT, which is broken down by the digestive enzyme monoamine oxidase, is practically inactive if taken orally, unless combined with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI).


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:29 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27278406 - 04/22/21 06:06 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

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Part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
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FYI: The THH is an SRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor with significant adrenal activity at A2A thru A2C receptors, similar to mescaline in that regard), it has super weak MAOI activity (see Wikipedia on tetrahydroharmine).

I looked up the data comparing RIMA activity of THH to harmine from a lab supplier who gave the data, and they referenced THH as only having around 1/100th the RIMA strength of harmine, practically non-existent strength as a RIMA. That would mean it would take 20,000mg of THH to equal 200mg of harmine in RIMA strength. Harmine & harmaline however have significant RIMA/MAOI activity.

How to best describe THH or tetrahydroharmine:

THH alone (200 to 300mg) with open eyes = everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day, just like professor8 describes it. A study done once on the UDV found that brews with high levels of tetrahydroharmine were preferred over all other brews, they found the "dmt was not the main attraction" but actually brews high in THH, fascinating study.

With 300mg THH, closed eye dream-like Ayahuasca visions actually form with closed eyes that begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours, These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT seems to add color and brightness to the visions. The DMT also of course adds strong psychedelic alterations & activity to the journey and enhances the quality of music in combo with THH, music sounds incredible as mentioned before for several hours, especially if you keep taking the sublingual DMT around once every 1.5 hour for the next 4.5 hours.

Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 90mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least a dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.

After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! All of the experiences were +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt.

This agrees with what I read from clearlight:
Quote:

Clearlight experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.



Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:
Quote:

Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.

Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.

An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.

I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.

It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?

With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.

When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.


However, at this point, I have noticed that ALL the dried Hawaiian psychotria is extinct, and is no longer available. But no worries, HPBCD complexed DMT feels the void very well, and is much more potent than plain DMT which is absorbed poorly via the oral or sublingual route. Studies show HPBCD when complexed to drugs like DMT improve drug penetration x 4 factors or 400% when used sublingually or orally.

In one past journey with 30g Hawaiian psychotria, saw three beautiful naked woman dancers twirling in front of stone pillars that rotated slowly. Jungle scenes lit up by the moonlight, full of snakes and palm trees by the beach and lots of people I had known in my life in floating bubbles that were to the left and right of the scene, drifting up into the sky. Elephants from India embellished with vibrantly colored jhools (saddle cloth) and heavy jewellery and sparkling anklets. Detached female faces of breath-taking beauty with freckles. Waterfalls in the middle of the jungle.

With another session, saw barely dressed women wearing futuristic clothing and bikinis of some sort, dazzling in it's design. A spinning vortex made of blue color with closed eyes that opened up in front of me that looked like a wormhole of some sort, I travelled inside of it, and was dropped off on an island in the pacific with wooden Tikis all around the perimeter of a small culture. I saw a chalkboard full of mathematical equations and scientific discoveries drawn out. I flew like a bird for nearly a minute over what looked like Los Angeles, as I could see the homes with swimming pools and parks below me.

I've seen pyramids adorned with gold sheen, architecture of the past and future, Egyptian scenery, vast landscapes, medieval scenery, it goes on and on. Everything is brand new as if newly created. Very similar to the Ayahuasca visions encountered by Benny Shanon in "Antipodes of the Mind".


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:31 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
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Part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
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Has the Mystery of the Eleusinian Mysteries been solved? by Ivan Valencic
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/valencic.htm

For a visual high dose claviceps paspali (same fresh alkaloid profile as the fresh Mesoamerican Aztec/Mayan morning glory) ergot wine trip report prepared by LSD chemist Todd Skinner, reported in the literature: read Krystle Cole's 3 page report on page 2 post #32 of morning glory link above.

She saw "constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head."

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It just so happens that the ancient Aztec and Mayan also added the fresh or dried pulverized morning glory seeds to a drink containing alcohol, they learned this would extract all the stimulating actives from the seeds:

Page 515 "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" Christian Ratsch:
Quote:

The fresh or dried morning glory seeds normally were added by the Aztec and Mayan to alcoholic drinks (sugarcane liquor; c. alcohol), tepache (maize beer, chicha), and balche' (Schultes 1941, 37).




The merck index shows that (1) elymoclavine, (2) agroclavine, (3) chanoclavine & (4) penniclavine in the seeds are best soluble in alcohol (sparingly soluble in water).

(5) Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) in the seeds only survives outside the seeds in an acidic environment (example: such as cold sherry wine which is already at ph=4). LSH decomposes in ionic conditions, neutral water (plain water), when heated, or in alkaline environments. See very bottom attached illustration of how LSH decomposes to LSA unless extracted into acidic water, wine, etc.

Important new 2020 receptorome binding data just came out this year that is available for LSH or Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide found in morning glory seeds. See below:

http://www.t3db.ca/toxins/T3D3687
hxxp://www.t3db.ca/toxins/T3D3687

5-ht2a, 5-ht2b, 5-ht2c, adrenal A1A, adrenal A1B, adrenal A1D, adrenal A2A, adrenal A2B & adrenal A2C

This is important as it shows LSH binds to just about all the adrenal receptors, while LSD only binds to one of the adrenal receptors: A2A in comparison (as far as adrenal receptors are concerned). See chart below: DMT, mescaline & psilocin all bind to many of the adrenal receptors. The adrenal receptors are implicated in the perception of aesthetics, beauty.

This may explain why the semi-synthetic man-made LSD has been perceived by many to have less aesthetic appreciation than the natural entheogens: LSH, mescaline, Ayahuasca (harmine + tetrahydroharmine + harmaline) with Caapi, dmt, psilocin. It's man-made quality may be more perceptable due to it's lack of significant adrenal agonism, which is prominent with the natural entheogens.

Example: Mescaline has a rating of 4.00 at adrenal A2C (see below), 4.00 = max = off the charts, and anyone who has ever consumed cactus knows the appreciation for beauty is "thru the roof" or "over the top".

Important teamwork is going on between LSH and penniclavine in the seeds, the 2 highest alkaloids. Agroclavine and penniclavine in the seeds (metabolite of agroclavine) bind to 5-ht1a, 5-ht2a, 5-ht6, 5-ht7, adrenal A2A, A2C, A2D, and most of the dopamine receptors in comparison. See "Agroclavine & Penniclavine radioligand (receptorome) data, Planta Med. 1996 Oct; 62(5): 387-92."

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
https://journals.plos.or...71/journal.pone.0009019
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max (off the charts), 0.00=min, X.XX=receptor is hit but we don't have strength data.
Quote:

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57
LSD: -A-2D = 0.00, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1A = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1B = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1D = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00




I don't know if you remember morninglory seed from long ago? He was on another forum. Here is one of his old classic posts that makes alot of sense:

morningloryseed:
Quote:

Unlike most alkaloids, LSA is water soluble when it is in its natural, freebase state...the way it is found in the seeds. it is a rare, exception to a rule because by simple definition, alkaloids are very alkaline or basic when in their freebase form as they normally occur in plants. Thus, they do not dissolve well into water. Most likely, many of the other ergoline akaloids probably are not water-soluble in their freebase form and thus are not extracted from the ground seed matter when a "tea" is made. or they get dissolved into the non-polar solvent used when an A/B extract is performed and they are thrown away.

Thus, extracts have a different mix of alkaloids and that is why the trip from A/B extracts or a "tea" of m. g. seeds feels so different than that of the whole seeds. In my vast experience with eating the seeds, and taking extracts, the trip that results is not as good. And I've taken the seeds more than any other psychedelic, except LSD and marijuana. I find them much more narcotic/sedative-like in nature and the effects are really nothing like that which I get from EATING the seeds.

The fact that teas or other extracts feel very different from the trip of the whole seed has also been noted by everyone I've shared m.g. seed tea with, and is a comoon thing reported in trip reports. So this is definitely not a phenomena that I am alone in feeling. Many, many, many people IM or email me with morning glory seed questions and most of them who have tried both have also noted that extracts are not as psychedelic and nowhere near as potent as eating the whole seeds.

The seeds do cause nausea and vomiting (as many other psychedelics like ayahuasca, mescaline, ibogaine, etc.) but a purge, I feel great. Like I said, I think the seeds are one of the best psychedelics, and I have tried quite a number of different ones.

Extractions such as a simple morning glory "tea", or the more complicated A/B extraction, will give you a mixture of different LSA's than those found in the whole seeds. It is the combination of all the ergoline alkaloids in the seeds that make you trip.

The main alkaloid is the mostly sedating LA-111, but many others (up to a dozen or so) including d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (closest molecule to LSD found in nature), are known to occur in the seeds. Together, they have a synergestic efffect and produce a very different kind of experience from pure LA-111. It is (in my opinion) a great trip. One of my favorites. Of course the trip from seeds is very different from LSD. But because it is different than LSD does not mean it is not as good. I think they are both very useful. Some of my most meaningful trips have been with natural lysergic acid amides.




Example page from Merck on agroclavine (found in morning glory seeds):
Quote:

agroclavine is soluble in ethanol, chloroform, pyridine, soluble in benzene and ether, very little water soluble.




From "The Alkaloids: Chemistry and Physiology", page 32:
Quote:

Agroclavine is readily soluble in organic acids, agroclavine is stable to acids", wine stands as one of the sources of organic acids. Page 33 "Elymoclavine is only somewhat soluble in water".


Peter Webster states in "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, the Secrets of Eleusis" in the morning glory chapter that Chanoclavine is soluble in alcohol.

The hard data is lacking on whether the alkaloids in the seeds are in the freebase (like morninglory seed above describes) or in the salt form. Alkaloids such as mescaline and dmt are found in the salt form in the plant, and are readily water soluble. However, these half dozen alkaloids from morning glory are found within the tiny rubbery like embryo found within the seed.

To be on the safe side, extract into wine, as this will extract the alkaloids should they be in freebase form. This will give you an extract that is no different from "eating the seeds". Morninglory above is right in that the plain water extract is no where near similar to "eating the seeds" or an acidic wine extract (editor preferred).

(1) Hermes (the Lycaeum) "Saw strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are around 32 to 36 seeds to a gram. So 12 to 14 grams is 400 seeds to 500 seeds. I extract into water pre-acidified with a squirt of lemon juice. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything. I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing, all of this with nothing more than 500 seeds."

(2) Nogal (the Nook) "Yes I know of someone who tried the CWE method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffee grinder in place of a stone metate (I think that's what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form (again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin)."

(4) Piper methysticum: "Morning Glory seeds are definitely the most euphoric psychedelic I've ever taken during the onset and the first part of the peak. Not even a strong dose of MDA could compete with the euphoria I felt from 12g of Morning Glory seeds. However, the comparison of LSA alkaloids to MDA is ridiculous. The visuals from Morning Glory seeds are quite inconsistent for me. The first time I tried them, at 9g, the visuals were very dull, but the mental and physical aspects were awesome. My second time at 12g, the visuals were beyond amazing. I got the feeling of being completely in a warp through time and visuals were flying past me and unimaginable speeds. A couple of my unexperienced friends were talking about the tracers they were seeing at the same time this was happening to me. I had to laugh. With just 6g my third time, I also had some pretty amazing visuals, though they weren't nearly as mind blowing."

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(5) Myself, 400 black hard fresh seeds right off vine, grown in 75% miracle grow & 25% cow manure compost: extracted with 2 shots (60ml) of fresh just opened cold sherry wine with added 10mg of DL tartaric acid powder added (auction sites or *ma*on), and stirred together in the wine really well.

DO NOT ADD MORE THAN 10mg DL tartaric acid to the 2 shots (60ml) of sherry wine...too much DL tartaric acid can upset ph balance of the body and you will feel really bad...10mg will keep ph no lower than 3.5. The wine will go from natural ph=4 down to ph=3.5, but no lower. You will need a 1mg (0.001g) electronic scale to do this, like the AWS GPR-20 20g x 0.001g scale for example. It needs to be DL tartaric acid and not just plain L tartaric acid, The d-form salt is the form LSD is active as for example, not the L-form.

You crush the seeds inbetween a paper plate with ends folded in, you hammer the plate on a concrete surface, then you add the crushed seed powder to a coffee grinder, and grind it till it is nearly a dust...then you add the dust like seed powder to the 60ml of cold sherry wine in a tall 1/2 pint jar, then you let it sit in fridge for 3 hours, with shaking & stirring once per hour.

Then at the end of 3 hour period, you decant off the top liquid from the seed debris at the bottom....filter the sherry wine liquid thru a cotton ball in a funnel which sits in a jar, change out the cotton ball when or if it clogs, I usually have to change the cotton ball out once or twice, the top of the cotton will turn black or dark brown. The cotton ball will remove ALL the nauseating debris from the sherry wine/seed mixture. You will be left with a golden clear to light brown golden liquid, this is what you drink--no nausea as all the debris has been removed!

Before you consume, always remember to keep the 2 shot sherry wine extract of the morning glory seeds cold at all times (in the fridge) as acetaldehyde boils off at room temp or 69 degree F. You don't want your LSH decomposing to LSA do you? You can freeze it too if you plan to use it at a later time.

I saw geometric patterns on the surface of everything, with closed eyes, colored vectors spun 360 degrees while traveling from left to right across visual plane. Sounds were not only amplified & music heavenly but audio hallucinations were produced, heavy euphoria component & very strong appreciation for beauty. Remember watching Scarlett Johansson interview on a small television and melting into the seat from her beauty amidst all the breath taking geometrics. Tripped hard as hell.

Note: Cold sherry cooking wine is recommended as an extraction solution since it is already at ph=4 and is 18% alcohol, and is also very cheap ($5 per bottle). It can be found in the wine isle of any grocery store, and is often on sale. It also contains 10mg acetaldehyde per each shot (30ml). A $9 wine preserver canister can be bought at Amazon which contains a gas mixture of argon, carbon dioxide & other inert gases which can be sprayed into an open bottle of sherry wine before sealing cork to preserve the wine indefinitely, otherwise the acetaldehyde in the wine converts to acetic acid over time, giving the wine a vinegar taste. The wine preserver contains enough gas to last for years of sealing many bottles.

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2016 Polish morning glory study found 3x higher amounts of LSH in MG seeds direct from grower/producer vs retail:
Quote:

seeds direct from growers: 1.71 LSH to 5.08 penniclavine ratio
seeds off retail racks: 0.54 LSH to 4.75 penniclavine ratio



Immediately vacuum pack and freeze freshly picked dark hard black seeds off vine to preserve potency indefinitely.

Erowid report:
Quote:

400 older dried seeds is similar to a little less than one hit LSD. 400 fresh off vine is like about 2 or three hits.




dmthead420:
Quote:

Seems this does do alot more, its alot more refined, clean, less body high all mind high.. i extracted 700 riveas into 100 ml of lemon juice , 50ml water .. that sat 9hrs in the fridge(water stayed the color of lemon juice but smelled like alkaloids) i filtered and added 100ml of sherry wine and that sat 6hours..

A buddy and i sampled 12ml of this and the effect is way different from just eating the seeds or just a simple water extract..

No body feelings AT ALL, not even the normal body buzz.. just a extreme lsd like head and abstract thoughts, better sense of understanding.... Real soon i am def going to try a large dose ..I Feel GreaT...I will no longer do it any other way.....my friend says the same.




Norman said on 16 September 2019:
Quote:

Years ago I stumbled across a simple method for dosing HBWR.
Grind the seeds and cover them with white wine, let sit in the fridge for a day or so, shaking occasionally, decant, filter and drink.
No nausea no aches no vasoconstriction.
I am now off alcohol completely so I’m thinking of an alternative method short of a full on extraction.
I’m convinced that something in the wine besides water and alcohol is what makes the trip so clean. I’ve tried twelve percent water alcohol mixes in the past and still had the nasty side effects and at the same time the trip is not as strong.
I’m thinking acetaldehyde and or tartaric acid may be involved or at least a good place to start.
Any thought on what chemically may be going on?




Vecktor (advanced chemist):
Quote:

tregar, you have probably rediscovered something that has long been a curiosity, for example on the now defunct blacklight site there was TLC posted of morning glory seed extract treated with methanol, acetaldehyde-methanol or with acetaldehyde-methanol-water, the extract treated with acetaldehyde-methanol showed a clear difference in the alkaloid profile, with a shift to several new non polar spots which couldn't be identified. IIRC Erhlichs was used to develop the plates so these were indole compounds.




69ron:
Quote:

I know some of you out there are apt to believe the statements above because you've failed at making LSH and those statements above help you feel better about you're failure. Don't fall victim to that kind of crap. Try it again. Find out what you did wrong. When it works, the difference is HUGE, not a tiny difference, the experience is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. SWIM knows the effects of LSA and LSD very well. He’s used them many times. He guarantees that when the reaction works, there is NO NOTICEABLE LSA left at all in the experience. It becomes almost identical to an LSD experience at low doses. Totally different from LSA.

According to Albert Hofmann (the inventor of LSD), LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde. Adducts are very simple to make. You just mix them in solution, that's all.

The effect of adding acetaldehyde is HUGE. SWIM cannot feel any leftover LSA when the process is done right. So, like I said, I think those guys don't know what they're talking about and I believe Hoffman does, and that LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde and nothing more. No complex reaction is needed to make it. You just mix the two together and LSH forms. And I believe all of the LSA forms LSH, not just a small amount of it because you cannot feel any of the effects of LSA after this is done right.

When the conversion from LSA to LSH is complete it feels COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The reason some people can't tell the difference is because their conversion failed. It doesn't always works, but when it does, the difference in effects are night and day. No one would ever think the effects of LSH are anything at all like LSA. It's that different.




fastandbulbous (chem wizard from bluelight):
Quote:

Apparently N-(1-hydroxyethyl)lysergamide (LSH) is an adduct compound formed from lysergamide (lysergic acid amide, LSA/LAA, LA-111) and acetaldehyde. This hints towards the idea that isn't the most stable of compounds, but would be pretty easily formed by the combination of lysergamide (LSA) & acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (ie a way to get much more & better psychedelic activity from any lysergamide extracted from seed sources).




Chemist Peter Webster who spoke at the LSD symposium:
Quote:

LSH is a labile adduct of ergine (LSA) and acetaldehyde.




Mid April: I am growing a small fence line of heavenly blue morning glory, so I will let you all know how my new dream experiences go this October or November when I pick them out of the pods once hard and black, then immediately freeze them. The seeds all sprouted only 1 week after planting the seeds in the 75% miracle grow mixed with 25% cow manure compost, both from big box home store. I dug a small 2 to 3" trench into ground, and filled it with the soil mix, planted one seed every few inches, 95% of them sprouted one week later after watering them daily. I feed them 1 tablespoon of miracle grow powder mixed into 1 gallon of water in watering can x once a month only. This will yield seeds of very high potency.

The application of NPK fertilizer (miracle grow) + composted cattle manure increased crop yield by 48.9% compared to NPK fertilizer alone ---> from 2017 Frontiers in Microbiology, 05 Sept 2017 "Composted Cattle Manure Increases Microbial Activity and Soil Fertility." Some users report that their plants grew three times in size once they added miracle grow soil to their existing potting soil.

As you can see, I used zinc #212 "screw eyes" from hardware section of big box store screwed into fence after drilling a tiny hole for each one, and strung fishing line inbetween the eyelits, this supports the vine, this is how I have grown for years. Train the vine horizontally on the fishing line if you want and once the vine reaches top of 5' fence, it can cross over top of fence and continue to grow or droop downwards on opposite side, for many extra feet of growth.

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Steps in the morning glory extraction (see very bottom attached photo):

I would suggest doing this under low light conditions, I personally replace a lamp in room with an LED Red bulb I found at grocery store in hardware section for five dollars when normally doing this.

1. eight grams weighed out on folded over paper plate, then hammered in between plate on concrete with hammer.

2. then the hammered mush was further ground in coffee grinder.

3. mush sitting in one half pint tall jar. (these jars can be found in canning section of stores)

4. 2 oz (60ml) of cold sherry wine added to mush and transferred to fridge for 20 minutes, shook hard every 5 minutes. (Shake hard three times or every 5 minutes during the 20 minute soak)

5. after 20 minutes in fridge observe course debris at bottom.

6. after 20 minutes in fridge, then filtered thru a cotton ball in a funnel, press on cotton ball using straw when dripping stops to get all remaining light colored wine solution out.

7. observe wine solution dripping thru cotton ball, solution is light colored and free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris!

8. closeup of 1st cotton ball in funnel after filtration, it took out ALOT of dark colored debris that is nauseating to stomach and intestines.

9. closeup of first cotton ball used for filtration, super dirty black at top 1/3rd portion.

10. first cotton ball changed out half way thru process, as it clogged, then replaced with a 2nd cotton ball to filter out remaining liquid which was in the funnel.

11. The end! 1.5 oz liquid collected from starting 2.0 oz, put back into fridge until use. Heavy nutty flavor, 100 percent free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris. All the actives remain in solution while the debris has all been eliminated. Prepare for a very euphoric and lucid visual trip with deep insights...combines extremely well with other entheogens as well.

12) Wine solution when dabbed on cue tip and touched to paper plate, glows bright blue

13) Her, underground house DJ

Pics appear to be posted backwards, no matter how I re-list them, 1st photo at very right, then in sequence from right to left. Very bottom photo of screen = step #2 the coffee grinder.

Stay true to yourself, Love, Peace and Music
http://www.friskyradio.com
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In closing: morning glory compared with HBWR:

Please keep in mind that HBWR has high levels of ergometrine, causes cramping and vasoconstriction, ergometrine levels in morning glory for comparison is very low. Also, HBWR has no history of Shamanic use, whereas morning glory seed usage goes back several hundreds of years. HBWR only has history of medicinal use. HBWR also has high levels of LSA, very sedating and not really all that psychedelic at all. But yes, all studies published after 2011 indicate that no LSH has been found yet in HBWR.

Interestingly, when a boy was found dead at the bottom of his apartment building (he jumped out, apparently this really does happen), they detected levels of LSH or Lysergic acid Hydroxyethylamide in his blood, he had also been drinking heavily and taking HBWR seeds that night. Here is the actual toxicology study:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20018470/
hxxps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20018470/

Remember, LSH is just a labile (unstable) adduct of LSA + acetaldehyde which can remain stable in acidic solutions, for example: outside the body in ph=4.0 cold fresh just opened sherry wine solution (under 70 degree F so the acetaldehyde does not boil off), and sherry is high in acetaldehyde. And you have to seal off the wine with a ten dollar wine preservation canister of inert argon gas (from *mazon with enough gas to last years of sealing) you shoot into the bottle, before placing back into the fridge, to keep the acetaldehyde from decomposing to vinegar via oxidation. Keep cold at all times. Whether this forms outside the liver as well as within is a whole nother discussion.

This is the paper that shows the alkaloid content of HBWR is vastly different from the alkaloid content of morning glory: Paulke A, Kremer C, Wunder C, Wurglics M, Schubert-Zsilavecz M, Toennes SW. Identification of legal highs—ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products. Forensic Sci Int. 2014;242:62–71.

No high levels of stimulating LSH, agroclavine, elymoclavine, chanoclavine, penniclavine found in HBWR seeds, only in morning glory seeds. A 2014 forensics paper from Paulke found no LSH in HBWR seeds, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest minimal: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine.

Sandgrease: "HBWR has more of a sedative effect compared to MG."

Nogal: "HBWR is more body related while MG seeds have effects more similar to LSD."

Pic1: The Aztec & Mayan extracted the morning glory seeds into wine and alcoholic solutions, 2016 Polish morning glory pics.

Pic2: Steps in the wine morning glory extraction, pics listed from end to beginning in reverse order.

Pic3: LSA adducts

Pic 4: Left: old 1970's morning glory data, right: new 2016 Polish mg study data

Pic 5: Eleusis ruins where the sacred psychoactive entheogenic Kykeon was drunk by initiates in ancient Greece, Eleusis participants, top: LSH compared to LSD, bottom: morning glory alkaloids, right: paspalum grass infected with claviceps paspali ergot which grows on the famous Rarian plain adjacent to Eleusis contains the same alkaloid profile as the sacred Aztec & Mayan morning glory.

attached: 2016 Polish morning glory study


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 04:51 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27279253 - 04/23/21 12:37 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

This is a load of awesome info! Thanks!


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: TheMagicConch]
    #27279840 - 04/23/21 09:42 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

THH is the best harmaline or MAOI for psychedelic journies for me, they called it telepanine for a reason.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27280726 - 04/24/21 06:52 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, thanks Tregar! This is the first I'm hearing about HPBCD and I'm already a huge fan of THH. I've been praising it for years and you've very clearly summarized why it is so special. In my experience, oral Caapi extracts containing THH are my favorite way to take DMT. People that have have only tried syrian rue are truly missing out. Mescaline is the only thing that can compete with THH Ayahuasca so my mind is blown to learn that you can combine THH with mescaline too! Have you ever taken Ayahuasca and cactus at the same time? I vaporized DMT on cactus and it is a combination that I can only describe as sacred.

Can you please PM me some advice on where to source HPBCD and THH? I have one caapi/THH vendor but it's sporadic. I'm all in for supporting the development of these experiences in modern society. The 60-90 minute trip duration sounds like a great option when smoking is too short and eating is too long.

I'm looking forward to experimenting with the HPBCD later. I have some questions: 

Can you clarify how complexed DMT freebase is stronger than say, DMT fumarate when taken orally? If the complexing is just to make it water soluble, wouldn't both options be equal when swallowed?
Why don't people sublingually take DMT salts?
Would the ethanol-prepared complexed DMT be dry enough to insufflate?
Could it be made into a nasal spray or inhaler?

"With Insufflation, sublingual or rectal, DMT is not broken down by monoamine oxidase."
Doesn't inhaling also bypass the MAO? I know from experience that harmine also potentiates and extends DMT inhaled through the lungs. So there must be MAO either in the lungs or blood stream. Makes me think MAOI's are a universal potentiator; even if you smoke, snort, sub or boof.


Edited by Icon (04/24/21 07:32 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Icon]
    #27280869 - 04/24/21 09:59 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

HPBCD can be purchased online, or eBay, without arousing any sort of suspicion.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Typerwritermonky] * 1
    #27281212 - 04/25/21 07:41 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for comments TheMagicConch, typewritermonkey (I know you, good to see you again!), Icon, RoadAppleSnapple & Jomanda1990. Very nice to meet you all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is how I got into growing morning glory, thought would share as I feel it was more a message from the Aztec Shaman, also goes to show the visual power of high dose LSD made from ergot alkaloids, this really happened.

Over 12 years ago, girlfriend and I both dropped 10 hits each of super old 15 year old decomposed acid given to us by a dear friend, he had stored it in between the pages of a book all that time without using a baggie, when held in front of blacklight, only around 60% of each blotter glowed, rest decomposed. It had a sick feeling for the first 2 hours, but then it worked and skyrocketed us to a higher divine plane, it was very strong.

She and I both saw the exact same vision for 20 minutes straight which had formed out of the shadows cast by the fake Christmas tree lights onto the wall--a 20 minute "schooling" by an ancient powerful & spiritually prominent Shaman from Aztec era --- I have never had an experience like that ever again to this day--it was a once in a lifetime opportunity.

The Shaman sat on a living chair made of spirit animals (birds, jaguars, otters, pumas, macaws, toucans) that morphed into other animals constantly, to the left and right of him were centaurs (half animal below, half naked female above), the great Pyramid of the Aztec capital behind him, and he showed me the rise and fall of several civilizations throughout time--and what is even more amazing--is that we both saw the exact same vision.

The Shaman wore a huge beautiful headdress made of feathers and the detail of the 20 minute animated vision was beyond 4k, and extremely detailed--it was also the vision in which I saw snakevines behind the centaurs, and before the Shaman left us at the end, he motioned to me with his eyes to look to the right of the living room out the window into the patio area where I had an empty garden plot--he was trying to tell me to plant entheogenic plants in the plot--that spring, summer & fall I grew morning glory in that plot on a large wide & tall wooden trellis cemented into the ground.

His point in showing me the rise and fall of the different civilizations was that I believe he was trying to tell me that "if humanity is to survive, the only hope is a Spiritual Solution".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In conclusion, post #8 continued here, ends here:

Below (1-6) from 1975 paper "Extraction and Identification of Clavine and Lysergic acid alkaloids from morning glory", see end of post #8 at top for latest "2016 attached 12 page paper", valuable morning glory study on LSH & other alkaloid levels found in morning glory from 3 different vendors, all levels very similar, collected from heavenly blue mg from 3 different regions located far apart.

The attached 2016 Polish morning glory study at end of post #8 (is somewhat similar to the 1975 study) except it shows penniclavine and LSH to be the 2 highest alkaloids, with the other alkaloids filling in the lower percentage.

https://kb.osu.edu/bitstream/handle/1811/22310/V075N4_198.pdf?sequence=1
hxxps://kb.osu.edu/bitstream/handle/1811/22310/V075N4_198.pdf?sequence=1

1) elymoclavine = approx 17% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with elymoclavine, that they were stimulated MORE than when they were given LSD.

2) agroclavine = approx 25% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed than when animals were injected with agroclavine, that they were stimulated MORE than when they were given LSD.

3) chanoclavine = approx 7% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with chanoclavine, that they were stimulated just as much as when given LSD.

4) penniclavine = approx 25% plus of the heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with penniclavine, that they were stimulated just as much as when given LSD.

5) D-Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) = approx 25% plus of the heavenly blue mg. If the seeds are not frozen & stored properly, then over time LSH decomposes to LSA (Lysergic acid amide). So the seeds may contain a makeup of 1/2 LSH to 1/2 LSA a long while later, like retail rack seeds as the LSH decomposes over time.

6) Ergometrine = approx 5% of the heavenly blue mg.

From the 1957 paper:
Quote:

All members of the excitor group produced in all test animals a syndrome of central sympathetic excitation and elicited a stimulation of spontaneous activity. In this group, elymoclavine, was the most potent stimulant and next come agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, and LSD which are almost equipotent, as judged by the degree of symptoms exhibited in the same dose. The arousal effect of elymoclavine or agroclavine on reserpine-sedation was superior to that of LSD.




Animal experiments have shown that elymoclavine, lysergol, LSD and several other ergot alkaloids such as agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, lysergine and lysergene have excitory effects on the central nervous system (Note 1: Yui & Takeo, 1957) as well as lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) which also excites the central nervous system in animals (Note 2: Glasser, 1961).

The effects of agroclavine are similar to those of elymoclavine and LSD on rabbits (Yui & Takeo, 1957), indicating that the effect of agroclavine may well be psychoactive in humans as well. It also seems likely that agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, lysergine and lysergene and lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) will be psychoactive in humans.

LSH = D-Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide in the seeds, we know it is similar to LAE-32 in TIHKAL, in which human experiments were done, at 1.5mg it was stimulating & "LSD like".

Glasser in 1961 noticed animals also became stimulated when injected with LSH. Dr. Glasser said some of the mice even stood on their hine legs and pressed on the noses of the mice in front of them, very peculiar.

Animal tests all point to LSH being an active psychedelic and it is indeed the closest thing to LSD found in nature, far closer than d-ergine. Owsley claims Hoffman himself told him that LAOH is very LSD-like.

It was Gröger who first discovered LSH in the seeds, published in his 1963 paper "Über das Vorkommen von Ergolinderivaten in Ipomoea-Arten". Later also Hofmann then extracted it from the seeds. It probably was in 1967, as Heim wrote in his work from August 1967 that Hofmann said he recently extracted it from the seeds (personal communication, as they knew each other very well).

LSD----------------------------------------CH2CH3-----CH2CH3.....chemical formula (C20 H25 N3 0)

LAE-32-----------------------------------------H------CH2CH3.....chemical formula (C18 H21 N3 0)

d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide-----------H---------CHOHCH3....chemical formula (C18 H21 N3 02)

Penniclavine-----------------------------------------------------chemical formula (C16 H18 N2 O2)

Notes:
(1) The above experiments with mice, rabbits, cats and dogs who were injected with elymoclavine, agroclavine, chanoclavine alkaloids from morning glory can be found in "Neuropharmacological studies on a new series of ergot alkaloids" "Elymoclavine as a potent analeptic on reserpine-sedation" by tohoru Yui and Yuji Takeo, Hyg 911/LSD 494, Jap. J. Pharmacol. 7, 157 (1957). Jap. J. Pharmacol 7, 157-161 (1957).

(2) LSH experiments on animals: A. Glasser, Nature 189, 313 (1961)

(3) This is the paper that shows the alkaloid content of HBWR is vastly different from the alkaloid content of morning glory: Paulke A, Kremer C, Wunder C, Wurglics M, Schubert-Zsilavecz M, Toennes SW. Identification of legal highs—ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products. Forensic Sci Int. 2014;242:62–71.

No high levels of stimulating LSH, agroclavine, elymoclavine, chanoclavine, penniclavine found in HBWR seeds, only in morning glory seeds. A 2014 forensics paper from Paulke found no LSH in HBWR seeds, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest minimal: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine.

We know that MG has centuries of Shamanic use, while HBWR has no history of Shamanic use. HBWR only has history of medicinal use.

Sandgrease: "HBWR has more of a sedative effect compared to MG."

Nogal: "HBWR is more body related while MG seeds have effects more similar to LSD."

4) Aum_Shanti, 2019, "In fresher seeds there's mainly LSH (in relation to LSA). Only in old seeds, the LSA is dominant. This is because the fungi on the plant can only biosynthesize LSH (not LSA), and LSA is then a decomposition product of LSH over time. The fungi on the vines biosynthesize:

from tryptophan-->chanoclavine-->agroclavine-->elymoclavine-->lysergic acid-->ergometrine-->LSH, which then decomposes over time into LSA."

(5) Psychotomimetics of the Convolvulaceae pg 93: "This particular plant seems to have been more important to the Aztecs in divinity then Peyotl or Teonanacatl, two of their other classical sacred plants."

(6) Jonathan Ott "Pharmacotheon": "Ololiuhqui was far more prominent as an entheogen here in Mesoamerica than those mushrooms; the mushrooms are mentioned only here and there by a few competent chroniclers; yet almost an entire book was devoted to denouncing mainly the ololiuhqui idolatry. The annals of the Inquisition contain many times more autos de fe for ololiuhqui than for mushrooms."

(7) 2016 Polish morning glory study which finds 3x higher amounts of LSH in fresher MG seeds direct from grower/producer vs retail: hxxps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4830885/ LSA is a decomposition product of LSH over time (see attached pics from study).

2016 Polish MG study:
Quote:

Alkaloids abundance in all 3 HB cultivars is comparable, with most significant difference for LSH (Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide), which varies from 0.54 to 1.71 compound to IS ratio.

As has been demonstrated in this study, LSH is a labile compound, and therefore the variances in its concentration may be due to different age and storage conditions of the seeds rather than difference in plant metabolism. Indeed, seeds IT-HB2, which express highest concentration of LSH, were bought directly from the producer, whereas seeds IP-HB1 were purchased in retail stores.




[8] Researchers showed in 1961 that Claviceps paspali produces high amounts of LSH in culture: "Production of a new lysergic acid derivative (LSH or Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) by a strain of Claviceps paspali, Stevens & Hall".

Possible likely entheogen candidate used to serve hundreds of initiates at Eleusis in ancient Greece: this is where the Eleusian Mysteries were held, at the Eleusis Telesterion (initiation Hall for initiates...all men, women & slaves were invited) in ancient Greece.

Chemist Peter Webster wrote that fresh Greek claviceps paspali infected paspalum grass which grows adjacent to Eleusis in the famous Rarian Plane contains the exact same alkaloids as found in the fresh Aztec & Mayan morning glory. Albert Hofmann wrote that Claviceps paspali due to it's similar makeup to the Mexican morning glory could also have been the likely entheogen used at Eleusis to serve hundreds of people.

(9) Krystle Cole from the book "Lysergic":
Quote:

"Isn't Ergot what Socrates used to take at Eleusis?" I thought it was kind of cool to be taking something that the founders of our democracy used to take, but that our current democracy has made illegal.

LSD chemist Todd Skinner replied "Yes". Todd had prepared 6 jugs of ergot wine and stored them for many years.




Krystle Cole's "ergot wine" experience (several pages long) in the book "Lysergic", reported that she saw constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head.

(10) sample morning glory wine trip report from Erowid: Morning Glory & Alcohol by Psychopsilocybin:
https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95057
hxxps://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95057
I would only note that she or he should have most likely extracted the seeds from the start immediately into the wine instead of extracting into the water first...then adding to wine later, as this will cause the LSH to first decompose to LSA in neutral water or water that is not acidic.


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:39 AM)


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InvisibleRoadAppleSnapple
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27281631 - 04/25/21 02:57 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Whoa!


This is incredible. Especially for folks who are uncomfortable with an MAOI, or cannot take them.

And for people who cant rip a bong etc without coughing their brain onto the carpet for 10min. (me).


So, basic idea is that one would acquire HPBCD (basically a chemical shell) and mix it with their extracted DMT 7:1. Hold under the tongue for 15min. 90min (ish) experience ensues. No hacking up a lung; no worries about maoi issues.


Thank you for sharing.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: RoadAppleSnapple]
    #27281674 - 04/25/21 03:29 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

@tregar

I saw this and was thinking "there goes tregar with his HPBCD experiments again!" lol.

I'm pretty sure nobody ever gave you credit for the 25inBOME HPBCD complex that exploded the nbome markets.  It may have been used for not good things, but science is for science sake.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27281699 - 04/25/21 03:48 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Yes Typewritermonky, unfortunately, I was the one who introduced HPBCD complexing to 25i-nbome to the bluelight forum back in Jan of 2012, see "the big and dandly 25i-nbome thread, page 28" after that virtually every vendor in the world of the nbome's took my idea and begin marketing them as such.

I hope this thread will make up for that adversity. I flushed mine down the toilet long, long ago. I despise that nasty compound. Most of you have probably noticed I work with natural psychedelics, I avoid all man-made psychedelics.

RoadAppleSnapple said:
Quote:

Whoa!

This is incredible. Especially for folks who are uncomfortable with an MAOI, or cannot take them.

And for people who cant rip a bong etc without coughing their brain onto the carpet for 10min. (me).

So, basic idea is that one would acquire HPBCD (basically a chemical shell) and mix it with their extracted DMT 7:1. Hold under the tongue for 15min. 90min (ish) experience ensues. No hacking up a lung; no worries about maoi issues.

Thank you for sharing.


Yes, you nailed it RoadAppleSnapple, thanks for comments. Don't forget to take from 150 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 30 minutes before the sublingual under the tongue HPBCD DMT + sublingual 35mg harmine fb at exact same time under tongue, music will sound incredible, divine transcendence and visions, very similar to cactus tea.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 10: One way to make tetrahydroharmine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once you get to the end of your rue extraction, where you put your rue hcl in water and precipitate the harmine from the harmaline, you want to slowly bring the ph of the water up to exactly 7.0 with drops of 10% ammonia (from hardware store, the industrial janitorial version)...at 7.0 only the harmine will fall out, collect over vacuum filter...then raise ph to 7.5 or 8.0 (your preference) and collect a small middle fraction, which you will want to set aside as it is a mix of some harmaline with some harmine...keep this fraction to add back in the future when you do another rue extract...now collect the 3rd fraction, which is the harmaline only at ph = 7.5 or 8.0 and above.

Details: I dissolve the rue hcl extract into water on a stir mantel, and as the stir mantel spins....add drops of 10% ammonia to precipitate only the harmine 1st, then a very small middle fraction (harmine + harmaline), then a final fraction which is only harmaline. I prefer using 10% ammonia from hardware store (janitorial). Super good PH meter: Apera Instruments ph20 ph meter.

Now once you have your harmaline freebase...

1) place 10.5 grams of harmaline in a 1 liter pyrex cup style glass
2) add 900ml vinegar
3) add 40g zinc dust (from pyrotechnic places) in the pyrex glass too, use 40g zinc dust per each 10.5 grams of harmaline. You will see tiny hydrogen bubbles rise to the surface.
5) place beaker solution on a magnetic stirrer with stir rod and spin entire solution slowly
6) spin for 1.5 hour, the solution will turn from green to a transparent like color after 1.5 hour, use end of cotton q tip to place in solution and dab on paper plate in front of blacklight, it will now glow blue when transition is done...

7) once done with spin, let the solution sit for 1 hour, most (99%) of the zinc dust will settle to bottom, then filter solution over a #101 9cm filter disc fitted to a vacuum flask with vacuum trap in series with your vacuum pump, this will give you a transparent golden color liquid, use this solution for next step.

Throw away the zinc dust you just collected on filter disc (be careful, don't throw zinc on top aluminum foil in garbage or it will smoke due to hydrogen loaded zinc, best to put used zinc in a baggie with water to keep it moist, keep away from aluminum).

The pump/vacuum filter flask & filter disc will remove 100% of any zinc dust. so in other words, filter pyrex beaker solution (takes out the zinc dust) over a #101 9cm filter disc fitted inside a vacuum filtration flask hooked up to a vacuum pump, with a small vacuum trap in series, in-between the filtration flask and the pump. A good pump is JB platinum DV-142N 5 CFM heavy duty vacuum pump.

Cool you are left with a 100% clear transparent with just a touch of golden very light yellow color with no zinc dust at all...now add (80ml of 10% janitorial ammonia per 2g of harmaline)...so this means add 400ml of the 10% ammonia to your solution...you will immediately see the thh crash out of solution as a white powder, place mason jar in fridge for 3 hours, the crystals will all be seen at bottom of mason jar.

9) you will collect 7.5 grams of pure white THH freebase on the filter disc sitting in your vacuum filtration flask once you pour fridge cold solution over a #101 9cm filter disc in your vacuumm pump, rinse THH with some cold water. put filter disc of thh in a pyrex tray, scrape off and dry under fan...pure white.

10) always this will happen: exactly 75% is the yield, as I don't know why this is so...but it's a great yield still. Even in TIHKAL, the yield was similar, right at 75% as well.

11) The more zinc you use, the faster the reaction progresses, so 35 to 40g zinc means the reaction is finished by 1.5 hour.

I've looked at the #101 filter after filtration, hardly anything at all on it, truly only 1% of the zinc dust remains to be filtered after sitting for 1 hour.

If you don't have a vacuum pump/filtration setup: Personally, I believe the cotton ball in a funnel to be one of the greatest inventions of all time--and think it would work just fine for filtering out the remaining 1% zinc dust, remember 99% of the zinc dust falls to the bottom already after sitting for 1 hour after the spin mantel is turned off. What you are filtering is actually the 1% of zinc dust from the very bottom after sitting that get's kicked up back into the solution as you are decanting it off.

p.s. I also saw an episode of "Ancient Aliens" in which they discovered remnants of zinc dust inside one of the chambers, and they believe the Egyptians were making hydrogen gas using zinc and vinegar, speculating that the great pyramid was some sort of power generating device.

12) This THH at 300mg is extremely visual, she's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally. With eyes closed for several hours are seen endless slow and high speed motion movies of nature, architecture, culture, history, the future, way beyond LSD or mescaline visuals...very realistic, mind-blowing...and with open eyes, beauty is extreme (over the top) and there is spiritual joy....this is the best psychedelic secret kept under wraps...because hardly anyone has used it over 100mg.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combine 250mg THH orally (take 45 minutes before) with sublingual 60mg of DMT complexed to 470mg HPBCD, add 10 drops boiling water, mash on a spoon hard back and forth for 2 minutes using the end of another spoon, mash or knead it all hard together using your muscles, grab off spoon using bottom side of tongue (it will all adhere) and hold for 12 to 15 minutes along with 35mg sublingual harmine freebase at the exact same time under tongue...

...22 minutes in you will experience profound beauty with open eyes, heavy CEV visions of spinning geometrics, actual temples, and ancient architecture, never ending breathtaking immaculate visions...pupils very dilated, music sounds incredible. 90 minutes long. 300mg THH is where the visions really are seen well, if you are not used to it, there is some slight dizziness at this dosage for a short period of time, but none at 250mg. The DMT really adds to the visions as well & brightens/colorizes them, incredible combination, just like in Ayahuasca. You can re-dose more HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hour x two more times.

Pic1: One way to make tetrahydroharmine

Pic2: Dissolve your rue hcl extract into warm 115 degree F water so it all dissolves, drop in two high precision PH meters, start the spin mantel, and add drops of 10% hardware store ammonia until you reach ph=7 when the harmine only will fall out, ph 7.1 to ph 7.9 = small middle fraction of harmaline mixed with harmine, put away and save for a rainy day when doing another extraction to add back in, ph 8.0 and above = all the harmaline only.


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:43 AM)


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Offlinejomanda1990
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27281844 - 04/25/21 06:32 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, we already got amazing info from you previous thread on consuming LSH from Morning glory seeds, and now this way of avoiding MAOI altogether when consuming oral DMT. I can only say: Thank you so much!


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27282657 - 04/26/21 12:23 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

tregar said:
Yes Typewritermonky, unfortunately, I was the one who introduced HPBCD complexing to 25i-nbome to the bluelight forum back in Jan of 2012, see "the big and dandly 25i-nbome thread, page 25" after that virtually every vendor in the world of the nbome's took my idea and begin marketing them as such.

I hope this thread will make up for that adversity. I flushed mine down the toilet long, long ago. I despise that nasty compound. Most of you have probably noticed I work with natural psychedelics, I avoid all man-made psychedelics.

RoadAppleSnapple said:
Quote:

Whoa!

This is incredible. Especially for folks who are uncomfortable with an MAOI, or cannot take them.

And for people who cant rip a bong etc without coughing their brain onto the carpet for 10min. (me).

So, basic idea is that one would acquire HPBCD (basically a chemical shell) and mix it with their extracted DMT 7:1. Hold under the tongue for 15min. 90min (ish) experience ensues. No hacking up a lung; no worries about maoi issues.

Thank you for sharing.


Yes, you nailed it RoadAppleSnapple, thanks for comments. Don't forget to take from 150 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine around 30 minutes before the sublingual under the tongue HPBCD DMT, music will sound incredible, divine transcendence and visions, very similar to cactus tea.




Oh yeah I remember, back in 2011 I had 1g of 25inBOME and you were pretty much the only other person to be working with it on the web.  I ordered some HPBCD maybe early 2012 a day after you made that post, so I musta been like the second person to do it.  Interesting enough, all my experiments with 25i with myself and others turned out wonderful, I really thought there was something special to it.  My friend was going to do a study for it because it was still legal, seriously everybody loved it!

But then, one guy who was taking some from me said he "lost" the 11 hits I gave him.  I would never give anybody too much at once.. so I gave him some more.  The guy ended up taking like 9 at once (they were 150ug each) and he was fine, but I could tell something changed in him after that experiment.  I locked everything down, and then I found Nichols research showing the 5HT2 load that 25inBOME had.  I then ceased experiments, not willing to destroy anybodys receptor sites.  I destroyed the 20k hits I had left, and ended the experiment forever.
We were taking doses of like 300ug, maybe 450ug MAX.  Online, folks were selling it at 1mg a tab!!!!!  WAY too high of a dosage.  Honestly, it had nothing on mescaline/LSD etc. - but it had colorful visuals, interesting patterns, and really impressive CEV and most of the traits of a typical psychedelic without any of the headspace.

I'm very excited to try this to be honest, I love DMT, but don't take it very much - this timeframe without the MAI seems perfect for me!


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Offlinephysics envy
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27283133 - 04/26/21 08:03 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Thank you for this tek, Tregar!

I have a (small) bottle of HPBCD laying around from an experiment a few of us worked on to complex salvinorin-A on the Nexus a few years ago.  I'll give this a shot sometime soon :-)

Perhaps this next part should be a separate post, but maybe you or someone else on here will know this answer quickly...I have a small bag of material that I believe was included as a gift when purchasing some vine/leaves/rue seeds/etc. from an online botanical store a decade ago.  It's labeled 'Banisteriopsis Caapi AYAHUASCA "White" Vine (4) Extract 10:1 (5 gram)'.  It looks kind of like finely ground up rue.  I'm assuming it is mainly harmine and THH with some harmaline, but maybe someone here would have a better idea if this is an accurate assumption?

I tested it recently with my intention being to smoke a small bowl prior to smoking some n,n-dmt to see if it would extend and potentiate the trip.  I assumed it would be like smoking caapi leaves prior to dmt, which tends to affect the trip a bit for me.

However, smoking the caapi vine extract gave me an unexpected trip itself - I was caught completely off-guard.  Your description of a 'diamond-like' quality reminds me of how the visuals felt/looked. It was similar to a low-dose dmt trip.

So if I were to eat this prior to using the complexed dmt, how much would you suggest using?  And/or should I try this by itself w/o the dmt first?  Would you take the 10x into account and take say 30mg of this?


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: physics envy]
    #27283220 - 04/26/21 09:45 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #27283394 - 04/27/21 03:00 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

why not just use dmt salt ie water soluble? the compound u are talking about is for fats..ie test is fat injection


why not just snort cmt hcl like a gentlmen lol.. or just sublingually as water souble  and if taking with caapi extract chances are just eating ayahuasca. as caapi would be unneeded if went direcctly to blood..  or simply effects of the thh

long story short if arent seeing elves its not a dmt trip :wink:


Edited by the man (04/27/21 03:09 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: the man]
    #27283417 - 04/27/21 04:40 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Physics envy said:
Quote:

Thank you for this tek, Tregar!

I have a (small) bottle of HPBCD laying around from an experiment a few of us worked on to complex salvinorin-A on the Nexus a few years ago.  I'll give this a shot sometime soon :-)

Perhaps this next part should be a separate post, but maybe you or someone else on here will know this answer quickly...I have a small bag of material that I believe was included as a gift when purchasing some vine/leaves/rue seeds/etc. from an online botanical store a decade ago.  It's labeled 'Banisteriopsis Caapi AYAHUASCA "White" Vine (4) Extract 10:1 (5 gram)'.  It looks kind of like finely ground up rue.  I'm assuming it is mainly harmine and THH with some harmaline, but maybe someone here would have a better idea if this is an accurate assumption?

I tested it recently with my intention being to smoke a small bowl prior to smoking some n,n-dmt to see if it would extend and potentiate the trip.  I assumed it would be like smoking caapi leaves prior to dmt, which tends to affect the trip a bit for me.

However, smoking the caapi vine extract gave me an unexpected trip itself - I was caught completely off-guard.  Your description of a 'diamond-like' quality reminds me of how the visuals felt/looked. It was similar to a low-dose dmt trip.

So if I were to eat this prior to using the complexed dmt, how much would you suggest using?  And/or should I try this by itself w/o the dmt first?  Would you take the 10x into account and take say 30mg of this?




Typewritermonky, thanks for your comments  on page 1 and please report back should  you try this either sublingually or orally with a harmala or caapi combination.

The man, I've spent an hour looking up countless threads on sublingual or nasal DMT fumarate and they were disappointing reads.

Physics envy, thanks for your experience, Yes, there is a "diamondlike quality" with THH, for me this is seen around 150 to 250mg, 250mg to 300mg results in intense closed eye visions, all of this with tetrahydroharmine alone by itself, in TIHKAL, 300mg of THH was equated to the visionary power of 100mg harmaline, but without all the nausea and dizziness.

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part 11: From the archives of DMT world: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask
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From the archives of DMT world, pre-runner to DMT Nexus forum:
Quote:

Super easy instructions for 2.3g DMT from 170g bark all in one day using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask and long glass pipette with rubber bulb on end for the pulls (zero drip).

Yields 2.3g DMT from 170 gram powdered bark: all 4 pulls are using 90ml naptha on 170g powdered bark mixed into 1.8 liter lye water (1.5 x 150g bark = use 225g lye dissolved into the 1.8 liter 150 degree hot water.) Just heat up 1.8 liter of water in a big pyrex pot on stove and use thermometer to pull if off when it reads 150 degree F.

Slowly sprinkle lye using safety goggles and long chemical resistant gloves that go up each arm, and stand back as far as possible...(the hot water will fizz but not boil up) into your pyrex pot of hot water. After each sprinkle, stir the water a bit with a super long metal spoon. It will "growl" a bit as it fizzes, but this way it dissolves very fast into already hot water.

Pour this lye water into your 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask using a large automotive funnel. Add 170 grams of finely powdered bark, and use a long chopstick or similar to mix it all together.

Use (.6 x 150g bark = 90ml naptha pull for each of the 4 pulls). An erlenmeyer flask makes it easy to do pulls using a long glass pipette, as the top of flask is tapered, so all the naptha collects at the top for easy pull.

Use an electronic thermometer to check the temp of the Lye water bark mix, when the lye water cools down from 150 degree F to around 120 degree F, then it's time to add your 90ml of naptha, make sure your 2L flask is sitting on a mitten or similar...this makes it easy to swirl your flask to mix the contents, make sure you are using the proper rubber stopper number 9.5 to seal the top of your flask once you turn it upside down then right side up to mix the contents as well.

Do a combination of swirling and a couple of upside down then right side up turns of the 2L flask, then once right side up, let the rubber stopper out, and let the stopper just barely sit in the flask (not tight), so gasses can exit. After 1/2 hour, all the 90ml of naptha will migrate & collect at the top of the tapered erlenmeyer flask...use your long glass pipette to collect the naptha, that's it! very easy, no mess, and the tapered erlenmeyer flask and glass pipette with round rubber plunger at the end makes it easy to collect the naptha at the top without collecting any lye water by accident.

No need to do a sodium carbonate clean on it, it's plenty clean already.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More notes:

Erlenmeyer flask tapers towards the top, makes extractions easier using a glass pipette, as all the naptha collects in a narrow band tapered area near the top.

Yield from 170g finely powdered bark using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask with 9.5 number stopper:

1st pull far left, dish + coffee filter = 1668mg
2nd pull in middle, dish + coffee filter = 517mg
3rd pull to far right = 155mg
4rth pull close to nothing
3 pulls get majority of it all (95%)
total = 2340mg

1) For 170g bark, use 1.8 Liter 150 degree water, when water, lye and bark all dissolved, liquid will all come up exactly to the 2,000 ml line on the flask.
2) 170g bark x 1.5 = use 255 grams lye
3) use 3 x 90ml naptha pulls, each 90ml naptha addition will rise 1.5" or so above 2L line on flask for easy collection using a long glass pipette.
4) allow 30 minutes for each naptha pull to rise to top for collection, this will ensure it all rises. Do pulls one after another, around 1.5 hour beginning to end, then you are done with 3 pulls.

The pre-heated water with mixed lye keeps liquid/naptha warm...keep a 60 watt lamp bulb with reflector close or pointed to back of flask the entire time, so each of 3 pulls are around 125 degree F when measured with electronic thermometer.

It's very important to let your dishes with lids sit undisturbed for a long while, dishes sit in freezer for 12 hours during day (11am till 11pm), then overnight for 8 hours.




attached: extraction pic from DMT world archives


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:46 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27283795 - 04/27/21 11:17 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I imagine the fumarate produces more profound experience compared to your complex in effects?  again if actually going intoyour blood effectively there is zero need for an maoi other then to maybe make it last longer like aya? however likely what is ahppening is u are just eating small doses of aya ie dmt and cappi in ur mouth that u end  up eating..

guess a question would be why do u need caapi? is caapi needed to smoke? or in fumurate preps? why is dmt effective smoked?

dmt has been sniffed for thousands of years...


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: the man]
    #27283829 - 04/27/21 11:48 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Hey to be clear, because I'm rereading and second guessing -


I have a little dmt that I extracted from bark. I'm new to dmt. I do not want to take thh or an maoi, nor do I have access. I also have issues smoking anything - I cough and cough and cough. I was going to deal with the coughing hoping it wouldnt be too bad if I was carful not to burn the spice.

This hpbcd would allow me a comfortable experience (and work w/o thh or harmala or caapi etc) sublingually. Correct?


Sorry, greenhorn here, don't want to waste even a crumb. Appreciate the guidance, greatly. :takingnotes::hug:


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: RoadAppleSnapple]
    #27283846 - 04/27/21 12:10 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Neat info tregar...thanks for sharing!! I remember your thread on bluelight for complexing 25i


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: redeyesmj] * 1
    #27289484 - 05/01/21 05:51 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, you have it down RoadAppleSnapple.

redeyesmj said:
Quote:

Neat info tregar...thanks for sharing!! I remember your thread on bluelight for complexing 25i



Thanks redeyesmj.

Stay true to yourself, Love, Peace and Music
http://www.friskyradio.com

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Part 12: Out of print writings on the Divine Plant of the Incas, strong euphoria & psychedelic visions from coca leaf tea bags.
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Cocaethylene (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, the orally active & potent ingredient formed in the liver from cocaine + ethanol in the 1860's "Vin Mariani" wine popular with both Popes, Thomas Edison and scores of other famous people) increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor [SNDRI; also known as a "triple reuptake inhibitor"].

Cocaethylene has a higher affinity for the dopamine transporter than does cocaine, but has a lower affinity for the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters. In McCance-Katz et alia's 1993 study cocaethylene "produced greater subjective ratings of 'High' in comparison with administration of cocaine or alcohol alone."

Years ago, put 6 teabags in my mouth, adding some baking soda, activated the tea, painted an entire barn one afternoon, endless effortless energy, so long as kept adding some bags into cheeks every hour or so. Only thing is it makes the teeth turn green color, not attractive in western society.

Yes, you can add coca leaf tea bags to a couple ounces of high alcohol wine (at least 18%) like sherry wine, let it soak a while, drink wine, can get very high, nice very strong euphoria. You can squeeze 2 to 3 bags into 2 ounces of wine, very pleasant strong euphoria for at least 1.5 hour. This coca tea wine can be combined with other psychedelics for an incredibly euphoric psychedelic trip. Love

Coca tea is served at all the restaurants in Bolivia, very common there. I never got much of anything out of the 6 bag tea, but the bags placed in cheek with baking soda works quite well for clean energy and coca tea contains more vitamins and minerals than most anything else.

There is a quote in the "coca leaf and cocaine papers" by Andrews and Solomon where the neurologist Paola Mantegazza way back when used to put amounts of coca leaf (coca leaf tea bags will substitute) in his cheeks with a pinch of baking soda. He has a chapter in the book, he got so freaking high, even to the point of psychedelic visions:

Page 38 "coca experiences" by Paola Mantegazza (1859) from "the coca leaf and cocaine papers":
Quote:

An hour later I was sufficiently calm to write these words in a steady hand" "God is unjust because he made man incapable of sustaining the effect of coca all life long. I would rather have a life span of ten years with coca than one of 100000...(and here I had insered a line of zeros) centuries without coca."



Bad ass out of print book, 371 pages, all about the Divine plant of the Incas.

You really have to read the chapter by Paola Mantegazza (page 38-43) on his coca tea in the cheek experiences, mind blowing. He took many drachm amounts of coca leaf and got high as all get out.

Page 40:
Quote:

The maximum dose of coca I have ever chewed is eighteen drachms in a day, taking the last ten in the evening, one after the other. It was the only time that I fully experienced the delirium of coca intoxication, and I must confess that I found this pleasure by far superior to all other physical sensations previously known to me.

Half an hour later I chewed two more drachms of the leaf, and my pulse rate increased immediately to 120. It was then that I started to have a sensation of extraordinary happiness; I dragged my feet as I walked and I distinctly felt my heart beating. I could not write except with great difficulty.

By the end of the following 2 hours I felt extremely happy. My pulse rate remained at 120; I lay in the happiest sensation of a full and active life. A quarter of an hour after having taken the last two drachms I begun to shut my eyes involuntarily and the most splended and unexpected phantasmagoria started to flit before my eyes.




Page 42, psychedelic visions from cheeks full of coca leaf with pinch of baking soda to activate, 3.8 gram = 1 drachme:
Quote:

On another occasion, having chewed coca leaf after dinner, I began to hallucinate after the sixth drachme. This effect lasted for over 3 hours, in the course of which I chewed two more drachms. Although I was immersed in a state of indescribable bliss, my consciousness was unimpaired and I was able to record some of the bizarre images that passed before my eyes swift as lightning. Here are a few; it should be kept in mind that for each one I managed to transfer to paper...I missed ten on account of their rapid succession:

A cave of lace through the entrance of which can be seen, toward the back, a golden tortoise seated on a throne made of soap...

A battalion of steel pens fighting against an army of corkscrews...

Lightning, consisting of glass threads, piercing a whole Parmesan cheese crowned with ivy and berries...

A saffron inkwell from which is born an emerald mushrooms studded with rose fruits...

A ladder made of blotting paper lined with rattlesnakes from which several red rabbits with green ears come jumping down...

Plucked Chinese flowers with burning silver stamens...

Looms made of matchsticks upon which cicadas are weaving pine trees made of suphur...

On the day following this experiment I felt more vigorous than usual, in spite of the fact that the nigh I had only one hour's sleep.



I remember when coca tea leaf boxes of 100 per box were sold on *mazon for cheap, along with 1 foot sections of bridgesii cactus, now you can't even buy any entheogens on *bay, only t-shirts or jewelry portraying the entheogen, just like Western man to turn it all into materialism.

Natural entheogens have been squashed by the pharmaceutical companies and teams of lawyers on all the sites while the Earth continues it's acceleration headfirst into climate crisis.

You can still order coca tea from Peru, it still has all the alkaloids, just have to use crypto. I still see some places carry a box of 100 for less than price of two movie tickets. Delisse is good stuff, it has all the alkaloids, use to buy it many years ago.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could let Peru and Bolivia sell the coca tea boxes in the states to legitimately make some money for their struggling economies?

William Martindale, author of "The Extra Pharmacopoeia" seriously suggested that Englishman should drink coca tea rather than tea.

Not a big fan of alcohol, so would stuff as many tea bags into a few oz of wine as could fit, let soak in fridge many hours, strain, drink, strong euphoric stuff for at least 1.5 hour, only used a few times many years ago, but remember those times as clear as a bell.

The median half-life of cocaethylene was 144.3 minutes (2.4 hours) whereas the median half-life of cocaine was 96.7 minutes (1.6 hours).

Cocaethylene is orally potent at lower doses than cocaine (not orally potent) and was discovered to form in the liver in 1994. But the book mentioned above also lists a hosts of other active alkaloids in the coca leaf. There is a synergistic effect.

How to make the highly euphoric coca leaf tea wine, last 2 pages of 2nd book, 5 to 6mg cocaine per tea bag soaked in wine converts to orally active more potent cocaethylene. More euphoric than cocaine and lasts x 1.5 times as long. (1.5 hour very strong euphoria).

Pic1: Last 2 pages: attached out of print writings on how to make euphoric psychedelic coca wine, soak two coca leaf tea bags per each 1oz of wine, then drink wine.


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:49 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27291303 - 05/03/21 01:00 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 13: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) + 1-acetaldehyde LSD (identical to ALD-52) trip reports:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you don't have LSD, then just substitute a 2oz fresh fridge cold just opened sherry wine extract of morning glory.

I have used this combination x 12 times, every 2 weeks, ranks up there with the most profound entheogenic experiences I have ever experienced, just as strong, long-lasting, visual, super neon-colorful & music-enhancing as two feet super fat bridgesii cactus, and I've drank cactus tea over 200 times now.

I used to spend hundred of dollars a year drinking cactus tea all year long, at least twice a month, this method is an identical replacement in my humble opinion, and lasts all evening with super long afterglow, very similar to 600+ mg of mescaline, and dirt cheap compared to the rare and very expensive cactus which is only becoming more scarce as time goes on due to demand and less growers.

This is the infinitely beautiful combination of tetrahydroharmine or THH with 1-acetaldehyde LSD (identical to ALD-52).

THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, best kept secret in the psychedelic world, it combines extremely well with other psychedelics and brings out there essence.

THH can be combined with other "oral psychedelics".

THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included.

Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon caricatures of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

Music will sound bad-ass incredible (way beyond LSD enhancement) only if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your 1-acetaldehyde LSD. Take them both orally at the same time.

300mg THH + 250ug 1-acetaldehyde LSD report (2oz fresh sherry wine morning glory extract can substitute as well):

One month ago combined 300mg of THH or tetrahydroharmine with 250mcg of acid paper that had been soaked in 1 shot of fresh just opened cold sherry wine for 3 hours in the fridge with hand stirring once an hour in the fridge for 30 seconds, to help theoretically or hypothetically convert the LSD to the more neon-colorful & visual and head-space gentle (zero-anxiety but still super-deep head space) 1-acetaldehyde LSD or nearly identical to ALD-52 by adduction of the acetaldehyde from the sherry wine to the NH bottom indole position on the LSD (don't try this at home unless you are really advanced, and sure you have very pure THH) and had closed eye bright colored teaching visions all the way from 8pm till midnight.

Much more powerful than LSD visions alone, these were brightly colored Ayahuasca visions. One of the sequence of visions were of a variety of stone carvings with very elaborate artwork and a beautiful woman who stretched out her hand to me to show me magic.

I would need a tape recorder going for hours to talk into in order to record the hundreds of non-stop CEV animated and static colored visions.

Then at midnight took another 100mg of THH, it brought the visions all back until 4am in the morning! Non-stop hundreds of Ayahuasca visions for hours and hours, I was completely blown away, and listening to music on my headphones, which sounded as if I had taken a high dose cactus tea, very remarkably enhanced, just Heavenly.

Where just LSD and psilocybin alone heighten and clarify the sense of hearing, the combo of 300mg THH + 250ug 1-acetaldehyde LSD produces auditory hallucinations, heightening the hearing sense but also causing sounds to be quite different than normal. Music sounds as if you were an extraterrestrial being, immersing yourself in new sensory phenomena for the first time. Each instrument stands out on it's own, every track heard as if experienced for the very first time.

This combo experience is much more visual than mushrooms or acid. This is very much like the combo of mescaline with a more visual, colorful & stronger version of LSD (1-acetaldehyde LSD). It's like a ZERO anxiety LSD with a very deep head space. Love Love

The combo experience makes the music sound just as good as using two feet fat bridgesii cactus tea. As I was watching a movie, all the actresses looked like glowing, dazzling, super beautiful-colorful cartoon caricatures of themselves, and the euphoria way over the top...all the colors in the movie poured over into the room and onto the walls, forming alternating neon colors on all the walls, incredibly beautiful. I saw colors on the wall that did not belong on this earth such as neon purple-yellow! I still can't stop thinking about this weeks later, the most beautiful colors I have ever seen.

Please note: all beginners only use around 150mg to 200mg THH which is what is found average in 1 cup of Ayahuasca tea, only advanced members of the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian and people like myself drink 2 cups of Ayahausca tea for the evening, which then contains around 300mg THH average.

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Part 13 continued: How to theoretically form 1-acetaldehyde LSD from LSD hits:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1-acetaldehyde LSD (nearly identical to ALD-52) will theoretically form when you drop hits of LSD into 1 shot of fridge cold just opened sherry wine, stir once an hour for 3 hours, keep in fridge at all times, as acetaldehyde boils off at room temp or 69 degree F, then consume...all explained below:

Sherry wine is high in acetaldehyde (10mg per 30ml or shot glass). This serves as an advantage...why is this possibly important?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.../pmc/articles/PMC49935/
hxxps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC49935/

Page 8441:
Quote:

Reaction of Indole with Acetaldehyde: A 0.2% solution of indole in equal amounts of water, ethanol, and acetaldehyde formed a product with 60% yield after 1 hour of reaction at ambient temperature. Omitting the ethanol (50% acetaldehyde in water mixture) had no effect.

Decreasing the concentration of acetaldehyde to 0.1% increased the reaction rate and percent yield of product.



See pic of the researcher's indole + acetaldehyde adduct product formed before (page 8439) and after (page 8441).

The researchers achieved a new product with or without the use of ethanol, it made no difference, you only need water acidified to around ph=4 and around a 0.1% acetaldehyde solution, and around a 3 hour soak time for 100% conversion.

Sherry wine fits the bill perfectly with it's high acetaldehyde content, and low ph, which is already at ph=4, just like the study calls for. The researchers stated "the lower the PH, the faster the reaction (indole adduct formation at the NH group)." It contains the perfect amount of acetaldehyde as well, in an alcoholic medium no less.

It is quite possible that 1-acetaldehyde LSH and 1-acetaldehyde penniclavine produce stronger visual trips with zero anxiety. This has been my experience with the seed solution and also my experience when converting 3 x 100ug blotters of LSD to 1-acetaldehyde LSD (have done this over 10 times already spaced at least two weeks apart during the past two years), also confirmed recently by Namaste at the Shroomery to work for him as well, now his preferred method of consuming LSD as well.

Once you know your morning glory seeds are potent, you could also throw in a blotter or more of LSD into the sherry wine/morning glory seed solution soaking in the fridge for 3 hours, not only will this convert the LSD to the more visual, colorful and anxiety free 1-acetaldehyde LSD but it can result in a trip way beyond normal LSD. Example below:

Dragonrider:
Quote:

I have also experimented with morning glory seeds a lot. A couple of times the seeds came very close to LSD. I have combined morning glory seeds with other psychedelics. On a few occasions, they boosted the effects of psychedelics enormously and very few seeds where actually needed to create this effect.

Once a mere 30 seeds were enough to cause an overwhelming OBE on LSD, paired with the most insane visuals and a defragmentation of the mind like i have never experienced ever since. I am convinced that there is a substance in fresh morning glories, and maybe it is LSH or penniclavine, that modulates receptors that are being activated by psychedelics in such a way that it can boost the effects of other psychedelics.




How 1-acetaldehyde LSD is different from LSD:

1) You know how acid has that sudden drop off then you are back to sobriety? Instead, this lasts longer than acid and has a warm gentle transition back over a longer period. The come up is also gradual and smooth similar to cactus.

2) 1-acetaldehyde LSD is way more colorful than acid, similar to mescaline.

3) 1-acetaldehyde LSD does not have the "visual choppiness" of acid, but is flowing in the visuals.

4) LSD produces tracers with multiples of shadows of the hand, this produces not only tracers, but colored fractals and mosaics inside the tracers.

5) LSD produces "colored specs that flow in front of everything", this produces instead "fine colored rainbow reflections" that surround everything.

6) Music sounds good on acid, but music sounds great on this, like a whole nother world, similar to mescaline.

7) With 1-acetaldehyde LSD, everything seems alive and magical. Patterns & neon colors form everywhere, the shifting of textures is magical. You can lose yourself easily as the visuals seem to drag your focus in without any effort. As a result, ego death is basically spontaneous.

8] Sometimes LSD causes wandering thoughts & can seem abrasively analytical but with 1-acetaldehyde LSD there is no wandering thoughts, no tenseness or anxiety like with acid, this is deep mentally, a real gem, pure psychedelic bliss. LSD feels man-made, this feels very primitive, archaic and natural.

9) 300ug of 1-aceteldehyde LSD makes 400g of fresh boiled thick bridgesii cactus pieces (no core, approximately 400mg mescaline) feel instead like 700mg of mescaline. I think this has to do with the possibility that 1-acetaldehyde LSD shifts the receptorome or radioligand binding of receptors "slightly away from 5-ht2a" and stronger towards the adrenal A2A, A2B, and A2C spectrum instead. This adrenal spectrum (A2A-A2C) is also the stronger dominance or habitat as well for mescaline & dmt & psilocin when compared to 5-ht2a, which is only midway on the spectrum, with the adrenal spectrum (associated with beauty & aesthetic enhancement) being more dominant with all these natural entheogens.

10) It is not a sacrilege to convert LSD to 1-acetaldehyde LSD cause Albert Hofmann also discovered ALD-52 at Sandoz labs. This is different from ALD-52 cause it has one extra hydrogen on the acetaldehyde adduct at the bottom indole NH group nitrogen.

12) LSD is more "analytical" and not as aesthetic, this feels more natural and is extremely aesthetic (beauty enhancing) like with mescaline.

Sample ALD-52 trip report:

hxxps://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/4ynu/highly_underestimated_ald52/
Quote:

Yes, I realize it's not technically LSD but really, it might as well be. I took 300ug thinking it would be mild if anything. Granted it wasn't as intense mentally as LSD can sometimes be, but conceptually and aesthetically it is beautiful beyond anything I ever anticipated. I feel perfect. At one. Better than I've felt in so long. I thought I could never trip again on anything but this is honestly paradigm changing for me. ALD-52 should be considered just as powerful as LSD-25 although it's a lot more relaxed and somewhat forgiving. As it is probably apparent I'm still very deep into this experience and I hope this to be an open discussion to anyone who would like to be involved.

My god, I just went through multiple ego death experiences beyond anything I've ever experienced from LSD before. There are no words. I mean there are plenty of "words" but none of them mean a single thing compared to any of THAT. Dear GOD. I never expected anything like this, but I sure as hell needed it. Even if I'm the only one here to express it to, as that's realistically the truth of nature anyhow. However, anyone who felt compelled to actually read through all this insanity, I just want you to know you're beautiful and you are everything. All things are right and they always will be.

Anyway, as far as the ALD-52, I took 300ug as I said. It was amazing and stronger than I expected, however I don't think 100ug would be very eventful to be perfectly honest. If you're concerned about it being too strong 200 might be worth it but 300 was really a great amount if you ask me. Even if you haven't taken any lysergamides before ALD-52 is rather calm compared to LSD or even mushrooms for the most part. Visually though, at least for me, it was absolutely breathtaking. Colors and textures were shifting like crazy.

Everything was alive and magical. Patterns were forming everywhere. I could lose myself so easily as the visuals seemed to drag my focus in without any effort. As a result, ego death was basically automatic and I reached that point multiple times. The first time I ever experienced ego death on LSD it left me with this beautiful feeling, like a deep inner glow that lasted for months afterwards. It eventually faded and I hadn't felt anything quite like it in years, but ALD-52 brought it back, and I feel like I've awakened from a spiritual coma.

Another thing is LSD sometimes causes my mind to wander uncontrollably unless I take my own initiative to focus, especially during the come up which can also sometimes fill me with restless confusion. Once I peak everything usually evens out, but ALD-52 put me in a state of perfect clarity from beginning to end. The come up was so smooth and comfortable.

I didn't notice the come down because I actually went to sleep when I felt like it was time to do so, which was an interesting surprise. Every time I've taken LSD I've had to let it run its entire course before even attempting to sleep. Often I would have to stay up for the entire day after which is obviously physically and mentally exhausting. But once I felt like the ALD-52 had made its point I went to sleep just like any other day, and woke up the next morning fully rested and mentally clear.

Overall, it felt very natural and I never had a single moment of uncomfortability or confusion. Just pure psychedelic bliss. I mean, I've had some amazing and extremely important experiences on LSD but honestly after the other night, think I prefer ALD-52. It felt like tripping for the first time again.




Random comments found on reddit to back up my dozen experiences with 1-acetaldehyde LSD (nearly identical to ALD-52) over two years:

1) Pandemoon said:
Quote:

I dosed ALD52 like 100+ times throughout the last 4 or 5 years, in doses between 25ug and 350ug.

While ALD52 is very similar to LSD25, I think I can still see a slight difference. To me the visuals are different, especially the tracers. I can clearly see a difference there.

With 200ug+ of ALD52, when I move my hand it shows some very colorfull spirals and fractals in the tracer /smearing.

While with LSD25 it is just a mirroring effect that shows several of my hands. Not nearly as colorfull, just a non colored shadow (or several) of the real hand.

With ALD52 it's much more colorfull and intense, like painting the air with rainbow colors.

100ug or even 150ug don't really show a difference at all to LSD25, but with 300ug and above (my highest dose was 350ug) the differences are even more intense.

With 350ug I can hardly see reality anymore due to all those colorfull reflections of anything I look at.

I think the higher the dose the clearer the differences.




Quote:
2) ALD-52 is probably most similar to LSD relative to the other analogues (of which I have only tried ALD-52). The headspace is markedly psychedelic, it lasts 12 hours and the visuals are prominent enough. They seemed to take on a more flowing characteristic than LSD, to where I'd see objects form within the patterns.

3) I find it has a more mellow vibe than LSD, I'm more content to sit back and relax whereas 1p is supposedly closer to the electricity of LSD.

4) For what it's worth, I found the come down of ALD-52 to be better than LSD... it just felt more refreshing, like a warm hug and it tapers off gently whereas LSD is more of a sudden drop off into sobriety, but the actual peak of LSD feels more... alive to me. like my consciousness is oscillating at a super high vibration.

5) ALD-52 is more euphoric than LSD-25 or 1p, and I find it's also less prone to creating anxiety. Because of this, I feel like I can take much higher doses and go much deeper. I took 5 tabs and experienced absolutely no anxiety at all. I don't think I would have been able to to do the same with 25 or 1p.

6) Hmmm. I seem to get much more euphoria from ALD-52 over 1p. But yes, the anxiety levels are consistently low with this chemical. ALD-52 is an absolute gem.

7) Agree. I feel like it's a subtle power, not as forceful as 1p. But there's genuine depth to it.
I'll be the first to admit it may be placebo, but I also favor ALD-52 for this reason.

8] I am very fond of ALD-52 as well! For me, the headspace was very much like LSD#25; however, I felt like the former of the two had potential for a really crazy headspace. ALD-52 also had me seeing three different colors that I'd never seen in my life. I saw red-greens, orange-blues, and of course the fucking purple-yellows.

9) NoticesMemesOwO:
ALD is MUCH calmer than 1P in every way. 1P tends to have a shitload of anxiety on the come up and tachycardia for me and my group of friends. Its very visual but also very scary at times. especially at high doses. ALD is the best IMO. I prefer it over the real thing honestly. At high doses it was very tame, had a great visual set, and no anxiety at all. very welcoming in the way it gets you. I would pick ALD all day long, and i could take or leave 1P in all honesty.

10) Doubledog said:
My friends had some ALD52 blotters few years ago and described it as slightly more visual, and not so stimulating, and as upgraded version of LSD, but with just small difference.

11) Namaste from Shroomery said:
Quote:

tregar, I think you're on to something here. The 1-acetaldehyde LSD I made following your instructions in 1 shot of sherry wine in the fridge with stirring once per hour was extremely chill. Soft around the edges. When I started coming down, it felt like 10 years of therapy.

I remembered good times, felt compassion. Listened to music I haven't listened to in years. Thought about friends, was at peace in a way that I haven't felt before.

The stars formed into animated constellations. My Bodhi statue began to juggle. I saw the Perseidies meteors not just out of the corner of my eyes but right over my face while lying in a hammock. Saw the entire movement from start to finish. They looked like giant arrows.

Stayed awake all day, went out to visit friends. It was very happy nostalgia. Sometimes larger doses make me totally black out. Not this time, I was awake and aware. No primal fear or paranoia.

Felt like I was still peaking seven hours after dropping. Sometimes I get a cracked out, confused feeling, not this time.

Haven't seen neon colors like that since the one and only time I was puddled.

Sunday's are generally filled with dread and depression for the following week. Experienced none of that. Just a long lasting afterglow. Still in a great mood now. I did get a pretty severe headache but I also drink like it's my job, and I am on a SSRI.

Been thinking about Ephesus and Pergamon, not sure if thats subliminal or coincidence. 🤷

Going to wait 3-4 months and repeat.

Give this a go!




Edited by tregar (01/23/22 12:14 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27292261 - 05/03/21 03:11 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

HPBCD only forms inclusion complexes with non-polar compounds. With a hydrophobic interior and hydrophilic exterior, cyclodextrins form complexes with hydrophobic compounds. Hydrophobic molecules are usually nonpolar, like freebase DMT for example. Hydrophobic literally means “the fear of water”

HPBCD is a new technology that allows freebase nonpolar drugs like DMT to be trapped by the cyclodextrin inner hydrophobic cavity which is composed of an inner "non-polar trap", and "outer polar cavity or hydrophilic exterior cone" which allows the normally water insoluble DMT to be made 100% water soluble.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 14: THH + mushrooms report from JKW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Just wanted to let you know that I finally tried 3 grams of cubensis with 180 mg of THH, and all I can say is WOW! Intense and beautiful like I've never had before, with a definite DMT edge to it.

I've always been a hard-head, needing 4.5+ grams to get anywhere interesting. I've done up to 9 grams, and never got near this intensity.

Just wanted to thank you for the tip. This is the way for me to go form now on.
I look forward to combining THH with DMT.

All the best, and take care.






Edited by tregar (01/23/22 12:13 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27294963 - 05/05/21 03:05 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

why would maoi be needed if going into blood?  dont think this works my man passing hormones bucally is much diffeent..


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: the man]
    #27295023 - 05/05/21 04:33 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

THH is an SRI, it's not a RIMA or MAOI. It's the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi, it hits many of the same receptors as mescaline receptorome data has shown, it blocks serotonin like mescaline, dmt does not block serotonin.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 15: Multiple encounters with death and depression
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This is the story of how HPBCD DMT came about: the plants taught this to me. I did not discover it. I have taken Ayahuasca over 70 times and cactus tea x 200 times. Ayahuasca seems to want to propagate herself all over the globe by any means possible, and if that means using the latest pharmacology advancements such as HPBCD, then so be it. The planet is in crisis, and Ayahuasca wants to help reverse the insane rapid destruction.

Daniel Pinchbeck "How Soon is Now":
Quote:

The human race is careening toward extinction: rising acidity of the oceans threatens coral reefs, habitat destruction, non-native species (predatory fish, bullfrogs, fungus, pathogens), climate change (alters temperature and water levels), pollution and diseases (especially chytridiomycosis, caused from the chytrid fungus) all have been shown to contribute to worldwide amphibian declines.

We clear forest that are full of trees even though we continue to pump CO2 into the air even though we know it's heating up the ozone and melting ice caps; we clear forests that are full of trees that could potentially help clean that co2 out of the air, the Amazon rainforest is the lungs of the planet, but miles of it are slashed & burned every week so that cattle can graize there instead to make hamburgers, and massive soybean cultivation. We throw away plastic water bottles, and worst of all, we feed into the corporate systems that keep this destruction going.




I don't know about you, but I don't use soybeans for anything, don't eat hamburger or steaks, only fish, chicken & turkey daily, as a bodybuilder this keeps me lean daily.

On my 70th Ayahuasca journey using the very last of my stored away Hawaiian psychotria, she showed me a vision of my "lost 1kg container of HPBCD". I had put it away 12 years ago, as I bought it from a sports supplement supplier, once pro-hormones became illegal, I carelessly abandoned the container in a place I could care less about.

Ayahuasca has a long standing traditional reputation of helping people find lost personal items like rings, necklaces, etc. through visions. She once helped me find a set of important spoons that I had misplaced many years ago as well. She showed me they were buried in a drawer under forgotten clothes many years old. I once saw a vision of a beautiful woman in medieval times searching for a lost ring in her home, Ayahuasca showed me that it was at the very top of a cubbard in her kitchen.

All that time the HPBCD container was lost, she showed me that it was in my garage buried in a container along with plumbing parts. That night I dug it out of the container and put it in my closet for use the next day. She also showed me a vision of the mimosa tree or shrub, I put 2 and 2 together, and knew what she was telling me...to experiment with HPBCD complexed DMT, and so that is what I did. She already knew that I had experience making sublingual HPBCD pro-hormones, as I had learned it from chemist Patrick Arnold.

I had run out of Hawaiian psychotria, and it had been extinct for the past 3 years, perhaps diverted to all the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America. I needed a high power alternative.

A little bit about me...

Becoming a shaman is often just as much of a curse as it is a blessing. Shamans are chosen by the Spirits at birth, but it is not until later in life (usually in their 20’s) that the shaman is struck down. The striking down of a shaman is to dismember them as a person and to have them reborn into something else.

The word Shaman means "to know". I am not a shaman, but have been thru alot of the near-death experiences Shaman's have gone thru, lost both my twin girls at birth, so have no children, my beloved pet Shitzu died at only age 4 from continuous bladder stones for 6 months, we did everything together...he was unable to pee so many times, we had to rush him to vet, where he was put down. He visited both of us in a dream 2 days later to tell us he was doing great in Heaven with a big smile on his face.

Have nearly died several times, once was hit head on by a truck when driver ran a yield sign, barely survived with numerous injuries. The hospital caught all my fractured ribs but did not diagnose my collapsed lung, so when I got home, drifted into shock in the middle of the night, wife called an ambulance and was rushed to a better hospital where they immediately diagnosed the lung condition and treated me for it.

Once took alot of acacia bark with Ayahuasca instead of the normal Hawaiian psychotria I use, and went into a serious serotonin syndrome shock, for an hour and a half I sweated my ass off sitting in the bathtub, I told my wife goodbye while my dog watched in a sad state...by some miracle pulled out of it, believe it was the high levels of maoi's in the acacia that interacted with the rima's in the Ayahuasca, bad combination. My forehead was pouring sweat for 1.5 hours, was in severe shock and trembling, and knew I was gonna die.

Lost everything in a 100 year severe flood, my home and all my belongings, had just gotten married to my beautiful wife and all the newlywed gifts perished...right after that we moved to an apartment complex, and 5 months later all our belongings again perished as they burnt to the ground after a disgruntled teen threw a lit blunt into the apartment complex after his girlfriend dumped him.

Had it not been for the policeman banging on the door of the apartment, we would have surely burned in the flames, as we were on the 3rd floor & asleep as I worked 2nd shift at the time. We ran down the steps in only our bare feet and suffered smoke inhalation.

Have been thru some near-death experiences similar to a Shaman, who lives on the outskirts of society. Lifting weights, walking in nature with my dog, going to the waterpark with a season pass every summer, and reading Bible all keep my spirits up.

Some of you have contacted me via messenger to let me know that you would like to experience this for other reasons than the visions, to help with treating depression. I will tell you this, yes, Ayahuasca can help to cure not only anger issues, melancholy, drug abuse & addictions, but also depression. She is also able to grow brand new neurons in the brain every time a journey is taken, she has cured people of all sorts of afflictions and ailments, even severe depression. I feel an afterglow for a couple days after a journey, and this refreshed serotonin reset often lasts for a couple weeks.

Celebrities who have battled major depression: Dwayne Johnson "the Rock", Katy Perry, Jon Hamm, Lady Gaga, Michael Phelps, Kristen Bell, Bruce Springsteen, Gwyneth Paltrow, Ashley Judd, Naomi Judd, Ryan Phillippe, J.K. Rowling, Sheryl Crow, Terry Bradshaw, Buzz Aldrin, Tipper Gore, Wayne Brady, Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, Brittany Murphy.

Beyond Happiness And Unhappiness, An Interview With Spiritual Teacher Eckhart Tolle:

https://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/319/beyond-happiness-and-unhappiness
hxxps://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/319/beyond-happiness-and-unhappiness

Eckhart Tolle is one of my favorite writers. He is the author of "The Power of Now, a guide to Spiritual Enlightenment" & "A new Earth, Awakening to your Life's purpose".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What we are beginning to discover is this: The HPBCD "encapsulated and trapped DMT" seems be forming enhanced modes of transport and delivery of DMT similar to how oral psychotria leaf gives an experience that is much more powerful and all encompassing and colorful than using normal plain DMT crystals.

The experiences from the Hawaiian psychotria brew Ayahuasca tea are always +5 on the Shulgin scale for myself in over 70 Ayahuasca sessions, while multiple experiments with several people in the Clearlight sessions found the DMT extracted crystals gave only mild experiences (+3 max) even when using doses up to 100mg. They also found the leaf brews to be +5 Shulgin level in strength & all encompassing.

Even used doses of oral dmt crystals at doses from 70 to 120mg a dozen times years ago, and found them all mild as well (+3 Shulgin scale) compared to the VERY strong Hawaiian psychotria experiences (30 to 35 gram tea), just like mind-blowing Jungle Ayahuasca.

Clearlight:
Quote:

Experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, the leaf brews were very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.



However, the HPBCD complexed DMT seems to greatly alter the transport, absorption & digestion of DMT freebase crystals, resulting in powerful experiences sublingually so far, even resulting in oral powerful Ayahuasca similar to those brews using actual Hawaiian psychotria leaf in them.

downwardsfromzero wrote:
Quote:

This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here -thanks for posting.



This is indeed fascinating downwardsfromzero, thanks for that keen observation on the sacchardies, perhaps they do function similar to HPBCD? Note: this procedure will work with any freebase molecule that is poorly water soluble, it does not work with already water soluble compounds or salts.

Jagube said:
Quote:

I've seen anecdotal reports of quidded D. cabrerana leaf being active.



Excellent observation Jagube.

69ron posted 8/12/2009:
Quote:

People are getting pleasant DMT effects from sublingual Virola calophylla resin. I don't think it has that much DMT in it. So why does the resin work so well when DMT is so hard to use sublingually?



HPBCD DMT is very strong...have used 60mg of it sublingually under tongue for 15 minutes along with 35mg sublingual freebase harmine at exact same time and experienced rapid heartbeat & pulse, tryptamine body rush & buzz, dilated pupils, music sounded incredible, had cev's and open eyed euphoria and profound beauty. 5 hours of Ayahuasca visions. I took 300mg of tetrahydroharmine 1 hour earlier so it was more like a true Ayahuasca experience, but no nausea, and re-dosed more 60mg HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hour x twice re-dose for a 4.5 hour total long experience with super-long afterglow well beyond this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 14 continued: 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD oral Ayahuasca report
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The experiment was a success...I took the 80mg freebase DMT complexed to (x7) or 560mg of HPBCD (use x8 or 640mg if using the more common 2-HPBCD to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio) all kneaded/crushed using end of another spoon, use your muscles, scrape & crush it back and forth well...all mixed on a spoon for 2 minutes with 0.500 milliliter (10 drops) of VERY HOT near boiling water from a nearby coffee mug.

1300 g/mol HPBCD to 188 g/mol DMT freebase = 1:1 molar ratio
1500 g/mol 2-HPBCD to 188 g/mol DMT freebase = 1:1 molar ratio

Both work exactly the same.

What I do is heat up a bit of water in a coffee cup in microwave & draw up drops of it using pipette. I read using hot water speeds & aids the mixing of the HPBCD to host drug. Then heat bottom of spoon up for around 20 seconds with a bic lighter, just until the edges of the liquid on the spoon begin to bubble, then pull flame away, mix solution a few more seconds, this ensures complete dissolution.

I added the 0.5ml spoon full HPBCD DMT solution to 1oz of 120 degree hot water...this then immediately turned into 100% transparent water when it hit the hot liquid in the pyrex cup...This was stored in fridge until use...then when I was ready, the 1oz clear transparent liquid HPBCD DMT water solution, once re-heated up in pyrex pot on stove, to this was then added 200mg harmine + 250mg THH and also 150mg of pure ascorbic acid (vit C) to help dissolve the freebase harmine + thh.

Or you can just take pre-made capsules of your harmalas at the exact same time you drink the 1oz HPBCD DMT hot water tea to avoid the taste of the harmine and THH.

I gulped it down in one shot...there was virtually no taste! I think the HPBCD completely masked the taste of the nasty DMT...I was shocked...took it all together at same time at 3:30, I'm writing this 3 hours later.

It came on exactly like 30 grams of hawaiian psychotria! there was no difference between this and the leaf brew, again I was shocked...it gripped me powerfully, heavy tryptamine buzz and high frequency. The THH already imparts a body frequency buzz + DMT tryptamine buzz = amazing amplified body frequency.

A vibrating neon colored fortress like a magnetic field surrounded me in the room, it shined off of every object similar to a UV blacklight glow...this neon visual vibration appeared all around me, given off by everything around me. The vibrational frequency field reminded me of the tractor beam in Star Trek when they would transport. I've experienced this same phenomena with past journeys involving 30 to 35 grams of potent Hawaiian psychotria...but never with plain freebase DMT or DMT salts before, only again with this HPBCD DMT.

I had to remain in one spot sitting as it was so strong for 1 hour straight, the walls in the room filled with 3-D ish like honeycomb orange & brown geometrics that appeared to bulge slightly off the surface, like the inside of a bee hive, neon colors were abundant, heavy tracers...the beauty all around me was infinite, beautiful CEV's (spinning and dancing or constantly morphing geometrics) and OEV...I was amazed to say the least.

In conclusion, I am impressed with this route of administration via sublingual or oral.
During the oral Ayahuasca journey (200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD) for the first hour, all objects glowed or shined as if in caught in a neon colored magnetic transporter beam.


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 07:54 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27298069 - 05/07/21 04:41 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)




see post #1, condensed.


Edited by tregar (01/01/22 09:34 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27298128 - 05/07/21 06:21 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

well you can mix me up a batch


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27298173 - 05/07/21 07:16 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

you'd dig it it's the bees nees


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27298175 - 05/07/21 07:18 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I envy people who extract dmt it's the most awesome psychedelic maybe except for lsd


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27298176 - 05/07/21 07:18 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

mescaline is a second


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27298237 - 05/07/21 08:08 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I'm about to try cactus/mesc extraction HcL more than likely. I have a couple kilos of MHRB, probably a lifetime supply, lol. I could get 36 grams of DMT from them give or take.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #27299754 - 05/08/21 07:10 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

well you can mix me up a batch


I would love too! But since I can't just buy some HPBCD powder, dirt cheap.

Ferdinando said:
Quote:

mescaline is a second


Full bodied cactus tea from 1 x 12" bridgesii or 2 x 12" medium thickness to 1 x 12" large thickness San Pedro is my absolute favorite, have done over 90 times now over many years, totally bad ass. The 250mg oral THH + 30mg on up sublingual HPBCD DMT ranks in the same, both equally VERY bad ass. I keep a trip diary over a period of many years. I've done Ayahuasca x 70 times now.

Tyrannicalrex said:
Quote:

I'm about to try cactus/mesc extraction HcL more than likely. I have a couple kilos of MHRB, probably a lifetime supply, lol. I could get 36 grams of DMT from them give or take.


Tell you what, just cut the cactus down the sides (de-core it), cut into chunks, peel the skin off each chunck, and boil the pieces for 1 hour, then strain thru a strainer and drink--so easy and kicks much ass--full bodied complete spectrum. Also, so glad to hear you have a lifetime supply of MHRB.


Edited by tregar (05/08/21 10:34 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27301722 - 05/09/21 03:00 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)


see post #1, condensed.


Edited by tregar (01/01/22 09:34 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27302519 - 05/10/21 06:31 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I wrote about this on the DMT Nexus quite some time ago.  I doubt it was as far back as 2012, though.  Not really sure and am not the least bit motivated to research it.  Someone who is not as lazy as me could do a search.  I thought then that it should work brilliantly, and said so.  I was too chicken-shit to try it out on myself as a guinea pig, though, so let the matter lie.  I still have a VERY large bottle HPBCD in my safe.

Good to know someone with more chutzpah took the next step.

This morning I vaporized 23mg of DMT freebase using my GVG.  The difference between 20mg and 23 mg is the difference between "wow" and "WOW!!" and largely explains my reticence at 68 years of age to overdo this molecule orally (Aya) sublingually as here, or through vaporization. Its steep dose-response curve can really rock your world and today was a good example.  Thought I'd be found in my bed dead at one point as the cold and numbness set in.  Had to force myself to breathe and was on the edge of...well, you know...:eek:

EDITOh for Pete's sake!  The OP's original post referencing this process was the one I started on the Nexus!  DUH.  I guess I should have looked first.  Damn!  2012!  I was ahead of my time.  LOL!

Keep us posted on your efforts, Tregar.  If you can pin down a "comfortable dose" I MIGHT be interested in whipping up a batch and self-administering it >>someday<< to corroborate any results you may publish.
  :popcorn:


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Edited by Nature Boy (05/10/21 06:48 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Nature Boy]
    #27302934 - 05/10/21 11:59 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FYI: Just so you all know I am not full of hot air, I was the one who introduced HPBCD complexing to 25i-nbome to the bluelight forum back in Jan of 2012, see "the big and dandly 25i-nbome thread, page 25" after that virtually every vendor in the world of the nbome's took my idea and begin marketing them as such.





And where exactly is your post?  Here is page 25.  No mention whatsoever from you or anyone else on that page.

https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/the-big-dandy-25i-nbome-thread.551797/page-25

On the other hand, I had already done this with 25i-NBOME AND bioassayed the results as documented and published in February, 2012 on the nexus, found here: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30071

DIRECT QUOTE:

Hi, all:

I read numerous journal articles and papers on using HPBCD to complex vitamins, steroids, antimetabolites and antibiotics following which I successfully complexed 25i-NBOMe and laid it on blotter at precisely 550 mcg / tab. It was a successful venture and an amazing experience.

It subsequently occurred to me that the only reason MAOI's are needed in conjunction with DMT fumarate or DMT freebase taken ORALLY, is to get around the inhibition in the gut. After all, an MAOI is completely unnecessary when vaporized, administered IV, or even rectally. I then began to consider a sublingual ROI for DMT freebase using HPBCD complexed DMT - and >>NO<< MAOI.

One MAJOR question remains before an attempt can be made. Shockingly few molecules of DMT are probably required for detectable effects. Assuming for the moment that the proposed experiment is a rousing success at introducing DMT into the bloodstream...HOW MUCH COMPLEXED DMT SHOULD CONSTITUTE A FIRST TEST DOSE??? 1 milligram? 10 milligrams??? I have a goodly supply of both materials. I'm scared to try for fear of success without some opinions on a starting dosage attempt, being a conservative psychonaut and a bit of a coward. The complexed DMT would be in ~ 1/2 cc of distilled water.

N.B.


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Edited by Nature Boy (05/10/21 05:08 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27303431 - 05/10/21 06:52 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

This whole thread is super interesting: many thanks. I'll re-read it a few more times.

One simple question: how do you arrive at your recommendations for THH doses? I might have missed an explanation, but I have seen a whole bunch of estimates here. I also checked TIHKAL as well and it says 300mg. Just wondering what your thinking is here.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: LeafRaker]
    #27303893 - 05/11/21 06:20 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for comments natureboy and leafraker. My apologies natureboy, the page is #28 of the bluelight thread and not page 25 like I noted.

I understand your psychonaut apprehension natureboy, 30mg is a great starting sublingual under tongue for 15 minute hpbcd dmt dose, 10mg is too weak.

Leafraker, arrived at tetrahydroharmine doses after reading section in tihkal just as you note. 250mg is amazing, 300mg even of just thh on its own results in around 2 hours of continuous dream like visions like slow and high speed movies in monochrome color. The combo of 250 to 300mg thh + 30mg on up sublingual hpbcd dmt resembles true Ayahuasca or high dose cactus tea, wait till u hear music on it...incredible.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27304667 - 05/11/21 05:45 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Glad you have all the materials Natureboy! :cool:

Thanks for reading LeafRaker.

Tomorrow I will be hitting two elves with one stone. I will take not only 70mg of HPBCD DMT orally with 200mg harmine + 250mg tetrahydroharmine orally all dissolved into a hot tea with some crushed vitamin C to dissolve the harmalas, and report back to see if the experience is similar to using an actual Hawaiian psychotria brew (which is always VERY kick ass super strong, all encompassing & very neon colorful with tracers that go onto infinity)...but after it wears off I will then take 30mg on up of sublingual HPBCD DMT to extend the trip, and bring back 60 to 90 minutes of DMT activity.

message to me:
Quote:

What is the point of that procedure anyway to make an edible version of dmt?



This thread shows how to make in 30 seconds what is called HPBCD DMT, using only a spoon, some HPBCD powder, some DMT, and drops of water.

When you for example make a hot tea with some crushed vitamin C to help dissolve the harmine and thh, and add 180 to 230mg harmine to the tea, along with 150 to 250mg of tetrahydroharmine to the tea, and also add 70mg of HPBCD complexed DMT to the hot tea, it could give you a powerful Ayahuasca experience that is VERY similar to using an actual hawaiian psychotria brew, far more powerful and all encompassing than using 70mg of freebase DMT or 70mg of freebase salt formed from fumarate or DMT salt made by dropping DMT freebase into coca cola or orange juice, etc.

What we are beginning to discover is this: The HPBCD "encapsulated and trapped DMT" theoretically could be forming enhanced modes of transport and delivery of DMT similar to how oral psychotria leaf gives an experience that is much more powerful and all encompassing and colorful than using normal plain DMT crystals.

The experiences from the Hawaiian psychotria brew Ayahuasca tea are always +4 to +5 on the Shulgin scale for myself in over 70 Ayahuasca sessions, while multiple experiments with several people in the Clearlight sessions found the DMT extracted crystals gave only mild experiences (+3 max) even when using doses up to 100mg.

I myself even used doses of oral dmt crystals at doses from 70 to 120mg, and found them all mild as well (+3 Shulgin scale) compared to the VERY strong Hawaiian psychotria experiences (30 to 35 gram tea), just like mind-blowing Jungle Ayahuasca.

Clearlight:
Quote:

Experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, the leaf brews were very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.



However, the HPBCD complexed DMT seems to greatly alter the transport, absorption & digestion of DMT freebase crystals, resulting in powerful experiences sublingually so far, perhaps even resulting in oral powerful Ayahuasca similar to those brews using actual Hawaiian psychotria leaf in them.

downwardsfromzero wrote:
Quote:

This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here -thanks for posting.


This is indeed fascinating downwardsfromzero, thanks for that keen observation on the sacchardies, perhaps they do function similar to HPBCD? Note: this procedure will work with any freebase molecule that is poorly water soluble, it does not work with already water soluble compounds or salts.

Jagube said:
Quote:

I've seen anecdotal reports of quidded D. cabrerana leaf being active.


Excellent observation Jagube.

69ron posted 8/12/2009:
Quote:

People are getting pleasant DMT effects from sublingual Virola calophylla resin. I don't think it has that much DMT in it. So why does the resin work so well when DMT is so hard to use sublingually?



HPBCD DMT is very strong...I even used 30mg of it sublingually under tongue for 15 minutes and experienced rapid heartbeat & pulse, tryptamine body rush & buzz, dilated pupils, music sounded incredible, had cev's and open eyed euphoria and profound beauty. I took 250mg of tetrahydroharmine 1 hour earlier so it was more like a true Ayahuasca experience, but no nausea.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27304799 - 05/11/21 07:26 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Eagerly awaiting your report, tregar!

This thread has rekindled my interest in this area. I'm now wondering about reviving my old oxidized freebase and some furmate. It seems I might have been right to conserve them all these years.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: LeafRaker]
    #27305223 - 05/12/21 05:31 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

LeafRaker said:
Quote:

Eagerly awaiting your report, tregar!

This thread has rekindled my interest in this area. I'm now wondering about reviving my old oxidized freebase and some furmate. It seems I might have been right to conserve them all these years.


Thanks LeafRaker, I say go for it! FYI: on page 2 on post ##27301722 (the post with the 3 pics) I give simple no mess instructions for a yield of 1.5g DMT from 150 grams powdered bark.

I bought my 1kg tub from a supplier of sports supplements 12 years ago, as it was sold right along side pro-hormones which converted to testosterone in the body at a rate of 95% compared to testosterone alone, as you guessed, all pro-hormones like 4-androstenediol were all later banned.

I've been a weight lifter/bodybuilder since my early 20's when I was a full time lifeguard on the beach (love the water, water spirit)...currently my bodyweight is 220lbs at 12 percent bodyfat, follow a strict Palumbo high-protein keto-diet daily for years, 1.2 grams protein per lb of bodyweight per day. I get all my meals and 65 gram protein shake within an 8 hour window everyday (6am till 3pm), and fast after 3pm till I wake up the next day. This keeps my bodyfat low yet retains all the muscle. I run on the treadmill during the fasting period once I get home for 20 to 30 minutes at least 3 times a week. I take bcaa's before I hop on treadmill to keep any muscle from breaking down.

Even at this weight, I still find that 200mg of harmine completely inhibits the monoamine oxidase in my body...in all of my 70 Ayahuasca experiences using 200mg harmine + 220 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine over many years, I find the alkaloid amounts to completely activate 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria to the full extent.

Later tonight I will take 200mg harmine + 250mg tetrahydroharmine + 70mg HPBCD DMT (490mg HPBCD powder kneaded, crushed & stirred for 30 seconds into 70mg DMT on a spoon with many drops of water forming a sticky complex for the oral use)...I will report back. Several papers I have read indicate that HPBCD complexed pharmaceuticals even when delivered orally out-performed normal oral versions of themselves by many factors.

I always mix everything together into a 2oz hot water tea with a dash of crushed vitamin C to dissolve the freebase harmine and THH, along with the HPBCD DMT, stir all together well in the hot water tea, just as the Shaman's do, take all together at exact same time, works incredibly well, far better than spacing out the DMT from the harmalas, I should know, I ran several experiments years ago, and the tea where ALL was mixed together outperformed all the other trials consistently.


Edited by tregar (05/12/21 06:01 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27305462 - 05/12/21 09:20 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Here is the HPBCD DMT solution ready to go for tonight

1. Materials: 70mg DMT for oral use, 490mg HPBCD, 1ml pipette, 0.25 to 0.50ml VERY HOT water from a nearby microwaved coffee cup of hot water.

2. Made a 1:1 molar ratio (1:7 mg ratio) of host drug DMT to HPBCD by adding 70mg of DMT onto spoon, added 490mg of HPBCD on top DMT, add 0.500 ml of VERY HOT near boiling water (10 drops) drawn up with pipette from microwaved water in coffee cup. For sublingual use don't overdo the drops, 0.250ml of water (5 drops) is plenty...if you accidentally add too much water then run a fan over spoon to evaporate some of it off.

Knead, mash and stir it all together for 2 minutes using the end of a spoon, notice the two separate powders turn into a homogenous transparent solution when done mashing.

3. For oral use, add the spoon of HPBCD DMT water to 2oz of hot water (120 degree F), it will all dissolve instantly into a totally clear homogenous solution (bottom left photo), take PH of water, it is safe to drink, reads ph = 8 to 9.

4. Store in fridge till later, when ready heat water back up in a pyrex dish on stove to 110 degree F or so, add 200mg harmine + 150 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine, add 150mg pure ascorbic acid (vit C) to help dissolve harmine & THH if they are in freebase form.

Stir all together and consume in dreams, just the way the Shaman's do it, take it ALL mixed together at the exact same time, works incredibly well this way, have over 70 experiences with Ayahuasca over many years.

5. Several papers I have read indicated that HPBCD complexed pharmaceuticals even when delivered orally out-performed normal oral versions of themselves by many factors.

490mg of HPBCD powder may look like alot when laid out, but when even just a few drops of hot water is added to it, it shrinks into a small sticky clear liquid mass as it is derived from a sugar molecule.

With the Ayahuasca journey, she guides you to the existence of a higher spiritual plane...recognized to which insight can and must be gained, yet it does not reject the mundane reality as inferior or empty. This joyous embracement of the world of form leads to words like profound pleasure, beauty and joy. This loving reappraisal of the worldly forms leads the way to higher divine planes.

Last pic: beautiful Shaman woman


Edited by tregar (05/14/21 05:51 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27305992 - 05/12/21 04:16 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

The experiment was a success...I took the 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg of HPBCD all kneaded/crushed using end of another spoon...and mixed on a spoon for 2 minutes with 0.500 milliliter of VERY HOT near boiling water (around 10 drops of water). What I do is heat up a bit of water in a coffee cup in microwave & draw up drops of it using pipette. I read using hot water speeds & aids the mixing of the HPBCD to host drug.

I added the 0.5ml spoon full completely clear HPBCD DMT solution to 2oz of 120 degree hot water...this then immediately turned into 100% transparent water when it hit the hot liquid in the pyrex cup...This was stored in fridge until use...then when I was ready, the 2oz clear transparent liquid HPBCD DMT water solution, once re-heated up in pyrex pot on stove, to this was then added 200mg harmine + 250mg THH and also 150mg of pure ascorbic acid (vit C) to help dissolve the freebase harmine + thh.

I gulped it down in one shot...there was virtually no taste! I think the HPBCD completely masked the taste of the nasty DMT...I was shocked...took it all together at same time at 3:30, I'm writing this 3 hours later.

It came on exactly like 30 grams of hawaiian psychotria! there was no difference between this and the leaf brew, again I was shocked...it gripped me powerfully, heavy tryptamine buzz and high frequency. The THH already imparts a body frequency buzz + DMT tryptamine buzz = amazing amplified body frequency.

A vibrating neon colored fortress like a magnetic field surrounded me in the room, it shined off of every object similar to a UV blacklight glow...this neon visual vibration appeared all around me, given off by everything around me. The vibrational frequency field reminded me of the tractor beam in Star Trek when they would transport. I've experienced this same phenomena with past journeys involving 30 to 35 grams of potent Hawaiian psychotria...but never with plain freebase DMT or DMT salts before, only again with this HPBCD DMT.

I had to remain in one spot sitting as it was so strong for 1 hour straight, the walls in the room filled with 3-D ish like honeycomb orange & brown geometrics that appeared to bulge slightly off the surface, like the inside of a bee hive, neon colors were abundant, heavy tracers...the beauty all around me was infinite, beautiful CEV's (spinning and dancing or constantly morphing geometrics) and OEV...I was amazed to say the least.

In conclusion, I am impressed with this route of administration via sublingual or oral.

During the oral Ayahuasca journey (200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD) for the first hour, all objects glowed or shined as if in caught in a neon colored magnetic transporter beam.


Edited by tregar (05/14/21 05:52 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27306258 - 05/12/21 07:38 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Update at 8pm 5/12/21 around 5 hours later same night, the 250mg 10.5 hour half-life tetrahydroharmine (THH) was still active in my body.

Took sublingual 35mg DMT complexed to 245mg HPBCD on a spoon with less than 0.25ml (only 5 drops) of VERY HOT near boiling water, this was using water that was pre-heated up in microwave in coffee cup, then taken up with end of pipette, and dropped onto spoon with the HPBCD powder/DMT crystals. I kneaded, mashed & mixed it all together using end of a spoon for 2 minutes.

It ALL dissolved into a clear sticky solution after mashing it with end of spoon for 2 minutes--I drew it up from spoon using pipette and placed drops under tongue. It felt like all the DMT dissolved into bloodstream, experienced great effects held under tongue for 15 minutes--sweet taste, as the outer shell of HPBCD is formed from a sugar molecule--no burn! It helped mask the taste of the nasty DMT.

5 minutes after the 15 minute sublingual period, my heart rate & pulse greatly increased, pupils dilated when I looked in mirror, had colored CEV visuals and long CEV lingering after images, open eyed beauty was profound, music sounded incredible once again, felt euphoria and elation. Zero nausea.

Highly recommend complexing DMT to HPBCD for oral use, which simulates actual very strong (+5 Shulgin scale) hawaiian psychotria leaf brew imho, as I've had over 70 hawaiian psychotria + Caapi journeys in the past over many years, or for sublingual use. The HPBCD complexed DMT imho absorbs many factors better than plain DMT freebase or DMT salts in the body, as I have over a dozen experiences with the oral freebase and DMT formed salts in the past for oral use (all only +3 on Shulgin scale). I was blown away by the oral & sublingual HPBCD DMT.

Oral use: 1:1 molar ratio of host drug DMT to HPBCD powder = 1:7 DMT to HPBCD mg weight ratio (70mg DMT to 490mg HPBCD)

SublinguaL: 1:1 molar ratio of host drug DMT to HPBCD powder = 1:7 DMT to HPBCD mg weight ratio (35mg DMT to 245mg HPBCD)

245mg of HPBCD powder may look like alot when laid out, but when even just a few drops of hot water is added to it, it shrinks into a small sticky clear liquid mass as it is derived from a sugar molecule, perfect for "under the tongue" use.

Highly recommend HPBCD complexed DMT. Smile


Edited by tregar (05/14/21 05:52 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27308783 - 05/14/21 05:44 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Amazing orally see post #25, or sublingual, see post #26.

HPBCD is itself very soluble in water (greater than 1000 mg/ml at room temperature). This increases with VERY HOT near boiling water. So now you see how I used 70mg DMT to 490mg HPBCD in 10 drops for oral use...or the 35mg DMT to 245mg HPBCD in 5 drops very hot water I used for sublingual use.

For example, if one were do an experiment to simulate oral Ayahuasca by complexing 670mg of HPBCD powder to 65mg harmine (1/3rd of an oral dose should work fine) + 40mg DMT all together on a single spoon for "under the tongue" sublingual use in order to avoid the dizziness of using say 200mg oral harmine, (but I always take 150 to 250mg THH orally 1 hour earlier which causes me no nausea or dizziness)...

...this may look like alot when laid out on spoon, but once you add between 5 and 10 drops of very hot near boiling water from a pipette taken up from a nearby coffee mug, the HPBCD shrinks into a small sticky clear liquid mass as it is derived from a sugar molecule, perfect for "under the tongue" use. After 2 minutes or so of kneading and mashing all on the spoon using the end of another spoon with the drops of hot water, it forms a TRANSPARENT CLEAR solution.

P.S. I feel great next 2 days. No hangover, cactus trips are great but usually I feel a bit tired the next day, I feel no tiredness from the oral 200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 70mg dmt complexed to 490mg HPBCD oral journey...the trip is strong for 90 minutes, 3 hours total or so...THH leaves a great afterglow next day.


Edited by tregar (05/14/21 05:54 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27308800 - 05/14/21 05:54 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

At 9pm that same night, I took another 100mg of THH, for a total of 350mg of THH for the day, before I fell asleep, I watched dream-like monochrome imagery as the THH was still working...for around 30 minutes I viewed mind-blowing vistas--grand architecture and cities, a bookshelf full of ancient books, a view of the gardens in front of what looked like Versailles, France.

I traveled down a street in Midieval period where I saw beautiful women walking along the street, these visions were like slow speed movies, way beyond 4k, highly detailed...true Ayahuasca visions...this always happens when I take at least 300mg or more of tetrahydroharmine during the late evening/night. This is one of the best part of the journey imho.

I've taken 300mg of THH on it's own many times and for hours with eyes closed I view endless dream-like visions, like slow and high speed movies being played for 2 hours...totally unlike normal dreams, she seems to tap into the "Akashic record" of the universe, the ether where all events, past, present, and future are stored...she shows you artwork, architecture, nature, culture, fantasy, history, the future, spiritual, supernatural. The visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27312304 - 05/17/21 08:56 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

This thread is continued here with all trip reports:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=2


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27312586 - 05/17/21 01:39 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

the formed complex liquid will remain stable indefinitely in a tincture, it can be frozen. Don't leave in fridge for more than a few days or bacteria could grow.

I'm taking 250mg THH orally one hour beforehand, then will take the 35mg harmine + 40mg dmt (75mg total alkaloids) all complexed to 490mg HPBCD powder (forms a 0.500ml or 10 drop solution after 2 minutes of kneading or mashing the mix on a spoon using very hot water drops using end of spoon) held under tongue for 15 minutes, and report results tonight, along with pics of the process.

This being done to simulate "true Ayahuasca" but hopefully without experiencing "the slight dizziness and heaviness" I experience from using 200mg oral harmine. THH causes me no nausea or dizziness whatsoever at 250mg, so I love to use it in combination all the time, imho 250mg THH is very similar to 250mg of mescaline, very beautiful compound. It combines extremely well with DMT.

Have over several weeks experienced 30mg, 35mg and 50mg sublingually and 70mg orally, trip reports above in this thread. The HPBCD DMT absorbs very well under tongue, but I am trying the above to see if the harmine will MAX OUT the activation of the sublingual DMT, hopefully resulting in maximum powerful Ayahuasca, identical to oral potent Hawaiian psychotria effects, which I have over 70 experiences. The harmine also has nice effects (like being in a relaxing hot tub) on it's own which I wish to include.

This will be my last post, as I need to head back to the gym & water park over the summer.

I will leave it up to the rest of you to experiment should you wish to. I love the HPBCD DMT so much, that I will continue to use it the rest of my life. I'm a very visual person, and love good music, that's why I like to show lots of pics. Ayahuasca is a great way to stay Psychedelic for the rest of your life.

Stay true to yourself. Love, peace and music
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--------------------------------------------
Ready for tonight:

1) 35mg harmine + 40mg DMT + 490mg HPBCD laid out

2) 75mg alkaloids + 490mg HPBCD put in spoon

3) 10 drops (0.500ml) near boiling water added from a nearby coffee cup, used the end of a spoon to knead, mash & stir it all together for 2 minutes, light brownish liquid formed, stored in fridge till ready. Alternately, a mortar & pestal can be used to knead & crush/stir the alkaloids into the HPBCD.

4) Tonight: take 250mg tetrahydroharmine 1 hour before, then place 0.5ml solution under tongue, hold for 15 minutes, 5 minutes later harmine + fully activated 40mg DMT should be felt strongly, for 60 to 90 minutes of strong effects. Re-dose again later if want to.


Edited by tregar (05/18/21 01:54 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27312812 - 05/17/21 05:11 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Results:

1) The HPBCD harmine + DMT sucked really bad, I think the harmine interfered not only with the complexing of the DMT but also the absorption of the DMT under tongue, will never repeat again, effects were very mild.

2) So then, 1 hour later I complexed 60mg of DMT to 420mg of HPBCD, shown in pics, held under tongue for 15 minutes, and it began to come on in only 10 minutes, beautiful strong effects! Now that's more like it, long duration about 90 minutes total. As usual, took 250mg THH 1 hour before. Bad ass!

Experienced PHENOMENAL strength, active for 90 minutes, profound open eyed beauty, maxed out dilated pupils, heavy CEV imagery, music incredible, very euphoric.

3) So my favorites are:

* For oral use: 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD using 10 very hot water drops, mashed all together on spoon for 2 minutes, then add this to 2oz of hot water containing 200mg harmine + 250mg tetrahydroharmine + 150mg pure ascorbic acid (vit c) to help dissolve freebase harmalas = 10 out of 10, this gives an experience identical to using 30 grams of potent Hawaiian psychotria, I've had over 70 Ayahuasca journeys using Caapi + hawaiian psychotria, and this was no different! zero nausea and went down in one gulp--taste was pretty much non-existent. All of my dozen 70 to 120mg freebase or DMT salt used orally with Caapi were all only +3 on shulgin scale, all very mild. This on the other hand was a +5 on Shulgin scale, just as strong as the leaf and all encompassing like the leaf. See trip report on post #25.:thumbup:

I'm glad to discover this, as for years all the dried Hawaiian psychotria has been extinct, I think it has all been diverted to the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America.

* For sublingual use: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD using 10 very hot water drops, mashed all together on spoon for 2 minutes, then pour this under tongue and hold for 15 minutes = 9 out of 10, very awesome strength and zero nausea, it stings a little, but the results are worth it, at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out all the saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing...nice long 90 minutes duration. :thumbup:

I just took a strong cactus tea in combination with the still working effects of the 60mg sublingual DMT to enjoy the rest of the evening off.



Edited by tregar (05/18/21 12:54 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27313814 - 05/18/21 01:17 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Many others have joined in the conversation: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=2


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27315382 - 05/19/21 05:43 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

--------------------------------------------
60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD sublingual report dosed x 3 times every 2 hours
-------------------------------------------

Full Journey trip report:

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work, and the sting is terrible just like you mention Fog. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary like tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes...

...you only feel a mild sting for around 10 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal.

Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa.

Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD with 2 minutes mashing on a spoon with 10 drops very hot water and poured under tongue, use your finger to rub any liquid from the spoon under your tongue as well, in case any is left...and hold for 15 minutes, begins to work in only 10 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva.

...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally any time I do this using the sublingual DMT.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.

The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 2 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven...:smile:

...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away.

I love the "oral 250 to 300mg THH + sublingual 420mg HPBCD complexed to 60mg DMT administration" as there is a complete lack of "queasiness feeling during the journey", perhaps because there is no harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines...I don't know the answer for sure, but I like it.

Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 2 hours I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...

one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life. :shocked:



Edited by tregar (05/21/21 05:47 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27315505 - 05/19/21 07:55 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

YES!


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #27315950 - 05/20/21 07:08 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Tregar,

Do you have a clear preference for sublingual administration over the brew you ingested???


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: LeafRaker]
    #27317130 - 05/21/21 05:50 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks tyrannicalrex.

LeafRaker said:
Quote:

Tregar,

Do you have a clear preference for sublingual administration over the brew you ingested???



Yes LeafRaker. I love the "oral 250 to 300mg THH + sublingual 420mg HPBCD complexed to 60mg DMT administration" over the oral Ayahuaasca as there is a complete lack of "queasiness feeling during the journey", perhaps because there is no harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines...I don't know the answer for sure, but I like it. ZERO dizziness, ZERO nausea, ZERO heaviness feeling.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27317169 - 05/21/21 06:56 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

This has all been very interesting. Thanks for your generosity here!

I'm tempted to not just look again at various forms of DMT, but also look at how THH on its own might enrich the mushroom experience. Some of us who have combined mushrooms+MAOis can't seem to agree on how THH impacts the experience, it's probably a good idea to use it on it's own.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: LeafRaker]
    #27318109 - 05/21/21 10:35 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Yes LeafRaker, THH enhances all psychedelics, it brings out their "esssence" to the max.

How to make tetrahydroharmine:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=1


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27320774 - 05/24/21 03:49 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Full journey trip report:

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work, and the sting is terrible just like you mention Fog. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary like tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes...

...you only feel a mild sting for around 10 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal.

Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa.

Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD with 2 minutes mashing on a spoon with 10 drops very hot water and poured under tongue, use your finger to rub any liquid from the spoon under your tongue as well, in case any is left...and hold for 15 minutes, begins to work in only 10 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva.

...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally any time I do this using the sublingual DMT.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.

The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 2 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven...:smile:

...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away.

I love the "oral 250 to 300mg THH + sublingual 420mg HPBCD complexed to 60mg DMT administration" as there is a complete lack of "queasiness feeling during the journey", perhaps because there is no harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines...I don't know the answer for sure, but I like it.

Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 2 hours I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...

one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life. :shocked:

----------------------------------------

    Shroombee said:
   
Quote:

Results of THH plus sublingual HPBCD+DMT trial::thumbup: It works!




    See part 10 of paper: how tetrahydroharmine is made:
    https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861

    Just a few tips before I depart for the summer to the weight room and waterpark:

    1. Take 250 to 300mg of THH or tetrahydroharmine around 45 minutes to 1 hour before, as the combo of THH + DMT simulates true Ayahuasca, THH is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi. THH is not an maoi, it is an SRI or serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Mescaline, ibogaine, LSD, shrooms all inhibit serotonin as well, this serotonin blocking action results in expanded consciousness in combo with the DMT as borders and walls are broken down in the mind as a result.

    I have seen the receptorome data for THH, it is very similar to mescaline, as THH not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline (A2A-A2C), these receptors are implicated in not only visionary but feelings associated with aesthetics and beauty.

    Using this oral THH + sublingual DMT results in ZERO nausea, ZERO dizziness, ZERO feelings of queasiness as there is no oral harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines.

    Just like Professor8 said back in 2010, she, the feminine "THH has the ability to raise your vibration or whole-body frequency (this is really felt strongly) in a most powerful way. She brings a diamond-like crystalline prismy texture & super clear watery dimension to Ayahuasca, like looking down through 10 meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. She brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order."

    2. Sublingual DMT salts do not work, and the sting is terrible. Using this method, the sting is mild to a little moderate, the outer water soluble sugary tasting HPBCD helps with this as it traps the non-polar dmt freebase inside it's tornado cone, as it releases the freebase directly into the bloodstream from the sublingual mucosa, only this way do you get max effects, as the freebase travels from the bloodstream directly to the brain.

    3. I found that using the bottom of my tongue to "lick any leftover liquid sticky complex" off the spoon will grab any rest of it once you have poured it off from spoon to under the tongue. I get it all this way. I simply press the spoon against the bottom tip of my tongue to grab any leftover from the spoon.

    4. The liquid sticky like complex should have all dissolved, there is none leftover when I do this after 15 minutes, be sure to press down with bottom of tongue the whole time to trap the sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa under the tongue.

    5. Don't swish your mouth out with anything, just spit out any saliva into a cup from your mouth after 15 minutes, then just sit there as you experience the trip for the next 90 minutes, go brush your teeth if you want way later...it does not hurt the tongue, feels completely fine after it's dissolved. It's even good for dental health imho as it kills any bacteria. But your teeth should be just fine, as we are trapping it in the sublingual mucosa under the tongue.

    6. 60mg is very powerful...I redosed every 2 hours, this was indeed a level 4 on the Shulgin scale for me combined with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before the whole journey, has a half-life of 10.5 hours, so 5 hours of strong activity combined with re-dosing 60mg sublingual DMT every 2 hours = incredibly bad ass, I had 5 hours of brightly colored CEV visions as described above...most powerful CEV visionary experience of my life.

    I love it even more than strong cactus tea cause it's dirt cheap to experience a level 4 trip now, and no different than strong cactus tea as open eyed beauty is profound, music sounds INCREDIBLE for 5 hours, and heavy CEV visions for hours on end.

    7. This past Friday on 5/21/21, I again took 300mg THH one hour before then used 80mg sublingual DMT complexed this time to 560mg HPBCD, mashed with 10 boiling hot water drops for 2 minutes on a spoon, then held complex under tongue for 15 minutes and experienced open eye visuals this time...the walls filled with colored geometrics, this was my 2nd high dose trial, when I took this again sublingually, but used 80mg instead of 60mg. Again, I had high-powered CEV's as well. I have become adept at using this stuff sublingually now. I had none to re-dose as I ran out of DMT, disappointed, have to extract some more, but at least I got 90 minutes out of it: very strong journey. I am now taking a 2 week break before I take it again.

    8. Try adding another 100mg of HPBCD to your complex, as the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin has a higher molecular weight (1500 g/mol) than my plain HPBCD (1300 g/mol), molecular weight of DMT = 188 g/mol...you want to use a 1:1 molar ratio.

    This will help trap more of the DMT, and lower the mild sting threshold even more. Use a 1:8 mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD instead of 1:7 mg weight ratio in other words. This means using 60mg DMT to 480mg HPBCD with 10 drops near boiling hot water from a coffee mug all mashed together on a spoon for 2 minutes, then pour under tongue.   


Edited by tregar (05/24/21 05:47 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27323554 - 05/26/21 07:26 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

For the HPBCD DMT experiments, extracted DMT as described below:

1) A procedure (based on Noman's or Norman's tek) which yields 1.5g DMT from 150 gram powdered bark: all 4 pulls are using 90ml naptha on 150g powdered bark mixed into 1.8 liter lye water (1.5 x 150g bark = use 225g lye dissolved into the 1.8 liter 150 degree hot water.) Just heat up 1.8 liter of water in a big pyrex pot on stove and use thermometer to pull if off when it reads 150 degree F.

Slowly sprinkle lye using safety goggles and long chemical resistant gloves that go up each arm, and stand back as far as possible...(the hot water will fizz but not boil up) into your pyrex pot of hot water. After each sprinkle, stir the water a bit with a super long metal spoon. It will "growl" a bit as it fizzes, but this way it dissolves very fast into already hot water.

Pour this lye water into your 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask using a large automotive funnel. Add 150 grams of finely powdered bark, and use a long chopstick or similar to mix it all together.

Use (.6 x 150g bark = 90ml naptha pull for each of the 4 pulls). An erlenmeyer flask makes it easy to do pulls using a long glass pipette, as the top of flask is tapered, so all the naptha collects at the top for easy pull.

Use an electronic thermometer to check the temp of the Lye water bark mix, when the lye water cools down from 150 degree F to around 120 degree F, then it's time to add your 90ml of naptha, make sure your 2L flask is sitting on a mitten or similar...this makes it easy to swirl your flask to mix the contents, make sure you are using the proper rubber stopper number to seal the top of your flask once you turn it upside down then right side up to mix the contents as well.

Prefer to do a combination of swirling and a couple of upside down then right side up turns of the 2L flask, then once right side up, let the rubber stopper out, and let the stopper just barely sit in the flask (not tight), so gasses can exit. After 1/2 hour, all the 90ml of naptha will migrate & collect at the top of the tapered erlenmeyer flask...use your long glass pipette to collect the naptha, that's it! very easy, no mess, and the tapered erlenmeyer flask and glass pipette with round rubber plunger at the end makes it easy to collect the naptha at the top without collecting any lye water by accident. This is the way a chemist can do it.

No need to do a sodium carbonate clean on it, it's plenty clean already.

My procedure:
1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 to 12 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a coffee mug
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of a spoon for 2 minutes
6) Take 200 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 45 minutes before. Then place sticky HPBCD DMT glob (HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes) under tongue for 15 minutes, press down with bottom of tongue the whole time to trap sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa. Be sure to use bottom end of tongue to lick any off spoon that is left behind, you want to get it all.

At end of 15 minutes, spit out any saliva into a cup instead of swallowing. The combination of THH + DMT simulates true Ayahuaasca, but there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero queasiness since there is no harmine or DMT going thru stomach and intestines. 10 minutes in there are heavy CEV's of spinning colored geometrics, visions of ancient architecture, animals, aliens, you name it, it seems to tap into the Akashic record of the ether in the Universe, where all past, present, and future is known. Open eyed profound beauty, music sounds incredible, this all lasts for 90 minutes. You can redose more HPBCD DMT by two more times, around every 2 hours if you want.

The sticky HPBCD DMT glob looks similar to the cartoon below.

Erlenmeyer flask tapers towards the top, makes extractions easier using a glass pipette, as all the naptha collects in a narrow band tapered area near the top.



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27324749 - 05/27/21 06:54 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Update 5-27-2021 p.s. I had an experience last night that blew my mind again for 90 minutes, took 300mg THH 45 minutes orally before as usual...then used 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD all mashed together real hard on a spoon for 2 minutes using 11 drops near boiling hot water from a coffee mug. I used the end of another spoon to mash it all together. My new improved method is grab all the liquid complex off the spoon using only the bottom of my tongue to grab it all, as it will all come off spoon and "stick to bottom of tongue". So easy and quick and efficient.

I held it sublingual "under tongue", and the walls filled with geometric patterns, and I saw waves of neon splashes of color wash across the room, it was AMAZING, I was tripping so hard...level 5 again on Shulgin scale, I LOVE this stuff...it's worth the initial sting for 15 minutes, then the sting subsides over the next 10 minutes to nothing. I spit out any saliva at end of 15 minutes, but don't rinse out mouth with anything (any residual amount will keep on absorbing), the sting and numbness is gone 10 minutes later...love this more than strong cactus tea, as it is dirt cheap to experience a level 5 trip now. :smile:



Edited by tregar (05/27/21 08:08 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27325605 - 05/27/21 06:30 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Tregar.

Sounds like you are onto something! Im thoroughly enjoying this thread.

I'm really considering this route for a first DMT experience, but I don't have access to THH or Harmalas.



So would you recommend 60mg  - without - thh... or a different dose?


I know it's not your preference, but you're the only guy to ask! (my goto is 3.5g home grown cubes).

Thanks!:mushroom2:


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: RoadAppleSnapple]
    #27328816 - 05/30/21 04:40 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)
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RoadAppleSnapple, thanks and use 60mg dmt if it's your first time.

However, doing this without THH would be like going to a waterpark without the women and bikini's :smile:

In the 7 times I have used this sublingually, only twice did I produce more than my normal low amount of less than 10 to 15ml saliva, but it still did not bother me, but I was happy to spit it out at 15 minutes. :smile: I have noticed on subsequent re-doses during the night, that there is even less saliva and sting as the mouth/tongue gets used to it.

See page 3, post #27305992

On wed night 5/26/2021, I had an experience that blew my mind again for 90 minutes, took 300mg THH 45 minutes orally before as usual...then used 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD all mashed together real hard on a spoon for 2 minutes using 11 drops near boiling hot water from a coffee mug. I used the end of another spoon to mash it all together. My new improved method is grab all the liquid complex off the spoon using only the bottom of my tongue to grab it all, as it will all come off spoon and "stick to bottom of tongue". So easy and quick and efficient.

I held it sublingual "under tongue", and around 12 minutes in, the walls filled with geometric patterns, and I saw waves of neon splashes of color wash across the room, it was AMAZING, I was tripping so hard...level 5 again on Shulgin scale, I LOVE this stuff...it's worth the initial sting for 15 minutes, then the sting subsides over the next 10 minutes to nothing. I spit out any saliva at end of 15 minutes, but don't rinse out mouth with anything (any residual amount will keep on absorbing), the sting and numbness is gone 10 minutes later...love this more than strong cactus tea, as it is dirt cheap to experience a level 5 trip now. :smile:

Don't forget if you don't like the sublingual method, you can always use this stuff orally, as it performs many factors better than DMT freebase or DMT salts used orally, See my trip report page 3, post #27305992 . Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. But I love the sublingual method personally.

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron."

I still can't get over the visuals on wed night: I saw entire waves of neon color that extended from bottom of floor to top of ceiling wash all the way from the right of the room to the left of the room, like a laser scanner, there were fine "ripples" in the waves...these waves were broadcast onto the walls, replacing the fine geometrics already seen on the walls...the neon colors were out of this world impossible: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

The euphoria and open-eyed beauty was over the top for a full 90 minutes. The music being played over the 3.5 foot high infinity speakers I've had for so many years sounded incredibly good, like being an alien experiencing sound & music for the very first time.

I had so much fun, I re-dosed again with a lower 60mg around every 2 hours. ZERO nausea, ZERO dizziness, ZERO queasiness feelings. AND IT STILL KEPT WORKING BAD ASS. I work some weekends, so that's why I took it Wed night, as I have random 2 days off in a row midweek some weeks. As a weightlifter, I'm used to experiencing "the burn" in the muscles when lifting, so to me the sting under the tongue is tolerable, does not bother me, for some others, they will want to experience this orally using harmine and thh taken at same time mixed with the HPBCD DMT (which turns 100% clear when it hits the hot water) all together in a 2oz hot water tea, just like I did on page 3, post #27305992.



Edited by tregar (05/30/21 06:56 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27330099 - 05/31/21 08:27 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

This is the story of how this came about: the plants taught this to me. I did not discover it. I have taken Ayahuasca over 70 times and cactus tea x 200 times. Ayahuasca seems to want to propagate herself all over the globe by any means possible, and if that means using the latest pharmacology advancements such as HPBCD, then so be it. The planet is in crisis, and Ayahuasca wants to help reverse the insane rapid destruction.

Daniel Pinchbeck "How Soon is Now":
Quote:

The human race is careening toward extinction: rising acidity of the oceans threatens coral reefs, habitat destruction, non-native species (predatory fish, bullfrogs, fungus, pathogens), climate change (alters temperature and water levels), pollution and diseases (especially chytridiomycosis, caused from the chytrid fungus) all have been shown to contribute to worldwide amphibian declines.

We clear forest that are full of trees even though we continue to pump CO2 into the air even though we know it's heating up the ozone and melting ice caps; we clear forests that are full of trees that could potentially help clean that co2 out of the air, the Amazon rainforest is the lungs of the planet, but miles of it are slashed & burned every week so that cattle can graize there instead to make hamburgers, and massive soybean cultivation. We throw away plastic water bottles, and worst of all, we feed into the corporate systems that keep this destruction going.



I don't know about you, but I don't use soybeans for anything, don't eat hamburger or steaks, only fish, chicken & turkey daily, as a bodybuilder this keeps me lean daily.

On my 70th Ayahuasca journey using the very last of my stored away Hawaiian psychotria, she showed me a vision of my "lost 1kg container of HPBCD". I had put it away 12 years ago, as I bought it from a sports supplement supplier, once pro-hormones became illegal, I carelessly abandoned the container in a place I could care less about, see pic on post #1.

Ayahuasca has a long standing traditional reputation of helping people find lost personal items like rings, necklaces, etc. through visions. She once helped me find a set of important spoons that I had misplaced many years ago as well. She showed me they were buried in a drawer under forgotten clothes many years old. I once saw a vision of a beautiful woman in medieval times searching for a lost ring in her home, Ayahuasca showed me that it was at the very top of a cubbard in her kitchen.

All that time the HPBCD container was lost, she showed me that it was in my garage buried in a container along with plumbing parts. That night I dug it out of the container and put it in my closet for use the next day. She also showed me a vision of the mimosa tree or shrub, I put 2 and 2 together, and knew what she was telling me...to experiment with HPBCD complexed DMT, and so that is what I did. She already knew that I had experience making sublingual HPBCD pro-hormones, as I had learned it from chemist Patrick Arnold.

I had run out of Hawaiian psychotria, and it had been extinct for the past 3 years, perhaps diverted to all the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America. I needed a high power alternative.

Daniel Pinchbeck "Breaking Open the Head" (Daniel also states in his book, that Ayahuasca is his favorite entheogen):
Quote:

For many people, Ayahuasca-a slowed-down low-res interface of the DMT flash-seems to convey strong messages from the natural world, of nature as sentient energy and spirit matter, of the need to protect the planet we have been given.

Yage whispers that human beings are meant to be gardeners of this reality, journeyers, storytellers and singers, weavers of the sacred. DMT, on the other hand, conveys no overt human or humane message.




Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 428:
Quote:

My experience with smoked DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings Ayahuasca introduced me to. For whereas the Ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or to some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.




A little bit about me...

Becoming a shaman is often just as much of a curse as it is a blessing. Shamans are chosen by the Spirits at birth, but it is not until later in life (usually in their 20’s) that the shaman is struck down. The striking down of a shaman is to dismember them as a person and to have them reborn into something else.

I am not a shaman, but have been thru alot of the near-death experiences Shaman's have gone thru, lost both my twin girls at birth, so have no children, my beloved pet Shitzu died at only age 4 from continuous bladder stones for 6 months, we did everything together...he was unable to pee so many times, we had to rush him to vet, where he was put down. He visited both of us in a dream 2 days later to tell us he was doing great in Heaven with a big smile on his face.

Have nearly died several times, once was hit head on by a truck when driver ran a yield sign, barely survived with numerous injuries. The hospital caught all my fractured ribs but did not diagnose my collapsed lung, so when I got home, drifted into shock in the middle of the night, wife called an ambulance and was rushed to a better hospital where they immediately diagnosed the lung condition and treated me for it.

Once took alot of acacia bark with Ayahuasca instead of the normal Hawaiian psychotria I use, and went into a serious serotonin syndrome shock, for an hour and a half I sweated my ass off sitting in the bathtub, I told my wife goodbye while my dog watched in a sad state...by some miracle pulled out of it, believe it was the high levels of maoi's in the acacia that interacted with the rima's in the Ayahuasca, bad combination. My forehead was pouring sweat for 1.5 hours, was in severe shock and trembling, and knew I was gonna die.

Lost everything in a 100 year severe flood, my home and all my belongings, had just gotten married to my beautiful wife and all the newlywed gifts perished...right after that we moved to an apartment complex, and 5 months later all our belongings again perished as they burnt to the ground after a disgruntled teen threw a lit blunt into the apartment complex after his girlfriend dumped him.

Had it not been for the policeman banging on the door of the apartment, we would have surely burned in the flames, as we were on the 3rd floor & asleep as I worked 2nd shift at the time. We ran down the steps in only our bare feet and suffered smoke inhalation.

Have been thru some near-death experiences similar to a Shaman, who lives on the outskirts of society. Lifting weights, walking in nature with my dog, going to the waterpark with a season pass every summer, and reading Bible all keep my spirits up.

Some of you have contacted me via messenger to let me know that you would like to experience this for other reasons than the visions, to help with treating depression. I will tell you this, yes, Ayahuasca can help to cure not only anger issues, melancholy, drug abuse & addictions, but also depression. She is also able to grow brand new neurons in the brain every time a journey is taken, she has cured people of all sorts of afflictions and ailments, even severe depression. I feel an afterglow for a couple days after a journey, and this refreshed serotonin reset often lasts for a couple weeks.

Celebrities who have battled major depression: Dwayne Johnson "the Rock", Katy Perry, Jon Hamm, Lady Gaga, Michael Phelps, Kristen Bell, Bruce Springsteen, Gwyneth Paltrow, Ashley Judd, Naomi Judd, Ryan Phillippe, J.K. Rowling, Sheryl Crow, Terry Bradshaw, Buzz Aldrin, Tipper Gore, Wayne Brady, Jim Carrey, Robin Williams, Brittany Murphy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A little bit more on tetrahydroharmine:

1) She has very strong serotonin blocking action, which results not only in stimulation but powerful transcendence as the daily survival filters are lifted so that "mind at large" as coined by Aldous Huxley can be let loose, when combined with DMT, which does not block serotonin on it's own, you then get the "full monty" mind expansion powerful transcendence. See end of post #41 for journey reports of 300mg THH on it's own. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline as noted by not only myself, but another person here. I have seen the receptorome data for THH, which not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 of the adrenal receptors just like mescaline which are associated with powerful visionary activity, perception of beauty and aesthetics.

2) Yes, she is feminine, which is why I always associate feminine pictures and energy with my journey trip reports that involve her. Queen of the Forest is what I like to call her.

3) She seems to be very stable indefinitely. I've used THH that was many years old that I had lost, still worked exactly the same. Wikipedia to find out more about it (good page on it), or read attached paper two posts up attached. Even Shulgin remarks in the book TIHKAL that "studies on THH are absolutely imperative." He also remarked that it probably holds one of the keys to unlocking Ayahuasca, but we just didn't know it yet.

4) Please just take tetrahydroharmine orally between 150 to 300mg. She causes no dizziness at 250mg or below, and only a tiny bit at 300mg, but once you are used to her, no dizziness even at 300mg. ZERO nausea, ZERO queasiness, so just consume THH orally at a powerful amount found in normal Ayahuasca brew which if you read attached paper two posts up is at least 150mg.

Many take multiple cups of Ayahuasca, so the THH is additive in effect, with a half life of 10.5 hours, so you get 5 hours of super strong effects, once you reach 300mg, the powerful CEV visions are seen for hours on end, phenomenal, them combine with DMT and the visions multiply and become colored and even brighter, as THH visions alone are monochrome (one-color) usually in green or blue. The DMT adds color and brightness to the visions, and adds to them exponentially.

Pic: Ayahuasca, Queen of the Forest


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27331131 - 06/01/21 06:44 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I plan on having another neon-colorful open eyed trip like 2 posts up next weekend, so I'm not only taking 250mg THH with me for oral use 45 minutes before, but I pre-made a HPBCD DMT tincture to take with me when I go to the beach for 4 days next week. I'm cheaply renting a house with pool a few blocks down from the beach as we pooled our funds together with another couple we know. The tincture will stay good in fridge for several days, but after several days it needs to be stored in a freezer so bacteria does not grow.

Each 0.5ml on the graduated pipette (10 drops) = 60mg HPBCD DMT (60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD in 10 drops near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug)

Note: add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin. This means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.

I dunk the tincture bottle in a coffee mug of near boiling hot water to warm it up again before use after pulling from fridge or freezer. Each drop = 6mg DMT complexed to 42mg HPBCD.

HPBCD is itself very soluble in water (greater than 1000 mg/ml at room temperature). This increases with VERY HOT near boiling water. So now you see how I used in earlier trip 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD in 10 to 12 drops for sublingual use. 1ml = 20 drops, 0.5ml = 10 drops, therefore each drop of water can hold 50mg HPBCD at room temp, or twice that 100mg HPBCD in very hot water.





Edited by tregar (06/01/21 08:26 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27334599 - 06/04/21 12:33 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Thread continued here with additional trip reports, even up to 90mg dmt, see page 4:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=3


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 2
    #27336029 - 06/05/21 06:57 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I'm just going to take the stuff sublingual at the beach house, then walk is only 5 minutes or so, so by the time I get to end of pier it should be working.

I just took when I got home from waterpark this afternoon: 250mg THH taken 45 minutes before, then 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg HPBCD with 12 drops of VERY HOT water, mashed all together for 2 minutes on spoon, then used bottom of tongue to grab it all from spoon, held in the sublingual mucosa (pressed down hard) for 15 minutes, spit out saliva, continued to hold any residue for next 10 minutes...it blew my mind! For 1.5 hour I saw neon colors wash across all the walls, geometrics on the furniture and floors, music beyond incredible sounding, infinite open eyed beauty, tripped so hard, love the stuff! The tryptamine rush was felt very strongly, awesome body frequency vibration.

From attached paper on post #57: Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron."



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27336354 - 06/05/21 01:42 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Anytime I do this, I always take antioxidants: 300mg +R-ALA, 1000mg vitamin C, vitamin E. I also take 6 to 8 caps of fish oil daily and 1 cup of 3 berry blend in my protein shake, super antioxidant power and the fish oil keeps depression far, far away...fabulous good mood with fish oil and sunlight daily.

I highly suggest using these 5.5 x 7.5 inch pyrex dishes that come with covers found at *almart, simply pour each of your 90ml naptha pulls into each of 4 dishes, stack them in the freezer, 8 hours later, pour off naptha thru a coffee filter secured to a wide one-half pint jar to collect any xtals floating in the ice cold naptha, and simply scrape up all the xtals from your square pyrex once it is bone dry.

Super easy instructions here on post #50: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=3 for 1.5g DMT from 150g bark all in one day using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask and long glass pipette with rubber stopper on end for the pulls.

1st pull = 1200mg, 2nd pull = 200mg, 3rd pull = 100mg, 4rth pull = 50mg, done this x 3 times, each time yield always at or better than 1.5g. Most (95%) of the crystals are all stuck to the bottom of shallow dish each time, very nice!



Edited by tregar (06/05/21 08:40 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27338026 - 06/06/21 08:25 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)
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The effects with the sublingual route are the exact same as if the DMT had been taken orally with harmine & THH, you get a full 90 strong minutes out of it with long afterglow, and yes, the THH does indeed extend the half-life of the DMT just as Dennis Mckenna PH.D. states in attached paper. I also enjoy the sting, reminds me of the burn when I lift weights, been a bodybuilder since my early 20's. The sting does not bother me at all, cause I know I'm gonna trip super hard for the next 1.5 hour, it's so worth it. Just like building muscle, no pain no gain.

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron."

60mg is a great dose once you have experience, a 3.5 on the Shulgin strength scale. You can always take this orally with 200mg harmine and 150mg THH if you can't tolerate the sublingual sting.

Update: 6-6-21

Yesterday on Saturday night, I first took 300mg THH 45 minutes before, then I took 110mg DMT complexed to 770mg HPBCD in 12 drops very hot water with 2 minutes mashing and kneading....then used bottom of tongue to grab it all from spoon, held in the sublingual mucosa (pressed down hard) for 15 minutes, spit out saliva, continued to hold any residue for next 10 minutes.

I tripped my ass off...I was so out there, the beauty all around was profound and infinite, sparkles and colored streamers floated and darted about in the air like fireworks, neon colors filled the walls in purples and yellows and red/greens...the music was so incredible sounding...intricate geometrics again filled the walls in between neon washes of colors, which took turns fading back and forth between the two.

I re-dosed 110mg more DMT complexed to 770mg HPBCD again every 2 hours for a total of 3 times the whole night....it was one of the most intense psychedelic experiences of my life....it was the bomb, I so loved it....I watched movies and was mesmerized by the beauty of the on-screen actresses and scenery...like I was on another planet...the euphoria and spiritual joy was intense. I had to raise my normal dosage of 80mg dmt to 110mg as I had slight tolerance from using it earlier in the week, but it still worked VERY strongly once I increased the dose.

What I do now whenever I take this...I pre-prepare 3 steel tablespoons, each taken off a key ring measuring spoon set, full of DMT complexed to HPBCD ahead of time...and place a foil cover over each tablespoon on the desk...so that I can take more every 1.5 to 2 hours in order to trip non-stop all night without having to stop to make more throughout the evening.

I am heading for beach soon, so will be gone for some time, enjoy and please keep reporting.

The table below shows the subjective effects on a Shulgin level 1 to 5 of DMT dose which applies to either:

(1) DMT complexed to HPBCD used orally with harmine/THH all taken together at exact same time mixed into a 2oz hot water tea, use 150mg crushed vitamin C to mix the harmalas into the hot water should they be in freebase form, the HPBCD DMT turns 100% clear when it hits the hot water, or...

(2) DMT complexed to HPBCD used sublingually with THH taken orally 45 minutes earlier...exact same strength either way.





Edited by tregar (06/07/21 03:12 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27338392 - 06/07/21 03:04 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

what about with zero thh? still work? or is it likely some maoi action is happening :wink:


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: the man] * 1
    #27338398 - 06/07/21 03:15 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

the man said:
Quote:

what about with zero thh? still work? or is it likely some maoi action is happening :wink:



Hello again the man, nice to see you!. The THH is not an maoi, it is an SRI, the music will only sound bad ass if you include it, and it doubles the half-life of the DMT, it brightens the visuals, adds euphoria & stimulation, adds visions, and it adds very transcendent activity to the journey, it is the 2nd highest ingredient in Ayahuasca, very important, omitting it would be like going to a waterpark without the women and bikini's. :smile:


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27340557 - 06/08/21 05:54 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

When using oral DMT or sublingual DMT, you will need to use higher doses than "vaped dmt". For example, I have done Ayahuasca 70 times using 30 to 40g of Hawaiian psychotria with Caapi each time. 30g Hawaiian psychotria contains approximately 60mg of DMT, 40g contains around 80mg DMT. This is where the real Journey's kick ass, at 30g leaf or 60mg DMT.

I would not experiment with alcoholic tinctures, etc. until you have the simple 2 minute kneading/crushing method down using a spoon and 10 to 12 drops of water...this is the same way scientist made the oral Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones more orally bioavailable by 54 to 89 percent, using kneading and crushing of HPBCD to the host drug, see study on post #15. Same way chemist Patrick Arnold taught how to prepare sublingual HPBCD pro-hormones back in the bodybuilding deja news user groups back in the day, which was bought out later by google groups.

The sublingual journey begins in only 1/2 the time of an oral Ayahuasca experience, so in 22 minutes vs. normal 45 minutes...identical to the "come up period" for the 100mg sublingual viagra study on page 1. But the cool thing is that it lasts the same amount of time as an oral Ayahuasca experience = 90 minutes.

There is ZERO nausea, ZERO dizziness, ZERO queasiness feelings as there is no DMT or harmine going thru the stomach and intestines, that's the tradeoff you gain for the sting you endure.

The sublingual HPBCD DMT simulates an oral Ayahuasca experience, not vaped DMT, sorry if I did not clarify that earlier. She is just as beautiful and transcendent as any of my highest dosage cactus tea experiences.

300mg THH taken 45 minutes earlier then 80mg sublingual DMT complexed to 560 "plain" HPBCD (use 640mg HPBCD if it's the 2-hydroxy) feels to me like around 600mg plus of mescaline, she is VERY trippy, beautiful beyond belief, music is so incredible.

You will not feel anything with less than 20mg DMT complexed to 160mg 2-hydroxy HPBCD sublingually. And 20mg DMT is only a level 1 on the Shulgin strength scale from 1 to 5.

Seriously, there is nothing to be afraid of, most should up their dose to 60mg complexed to 420mg HPBCD, use 480mg if using the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin...I guarantee you will be flying high.

The higher dosage is needed as horsepower for the full 1.5 hour.

Post #27330099 is one of the most important posts of this thread and talks about the Planet in crisis, and why the Ayahuasca Queen wanted this discovered and propagated.

Post #27320774 contains the mind-blowing 5 hour visionary 300mg THH taken once (10.5 hour half life) + 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD redosed x 3 times (every 1.5 hour) report.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.

They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind.

I recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world, very interesting video, highly recommend.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=5

pic1: Sublingual & oral DMT horsepower, women riding horses, where the Queen of the forest lives, Ayahuasca.

pic2: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl





Edited by tregar (06/09/21 10:52 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27342480 - 06/10/21 03:56 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Summary:

I will for sure be using this stuff for the rest of my life, so love it. I use in place of my high dose cactus tea when I trip at home now, dirt cheap, and save my rare cactus for outdoors only. She is VERY trippy, just as beautiful and transcendent as high dose cactus tea. 300mg tetrahydroharmine, or THH 45 minutes taken orally before + 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD taken sublingually under tongue is a level 5 maxed out Shulgin strength level trip & feels to me very similar to 600mg plus of mescaline, beautiful beyond belief, neon intricate geometrics open eyed on the walls with splashes of neon color washing the walls, colored sparklets flying in the air like fireworks and fantastic closed eye visuals/visions & music is so incredible. See post #54 for 5 hour report.

Procedure: 300mg tetrahydroharmine (use from 150mg to 300mg) taken 45 minutes before orally + 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD, use 640mg if using the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin using 12 drops very hot water from a nearby coffee mug all mashed together for 2 minutes on a spoon, using the end of another spoon to mash & knead it all together.

Then taken sublingually by placing bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue...hold for 15 minutes under tongue in the sublingual mucosa, then spit out any saliva (but not what's under your tongue), continue to hold any residue under tongue for 10 more minutes, never release your tongue the whole 25 minutes...press down hard with tongue the whole time to trap complex in the sublingual mucosa. 22 minutes after you begin all of this, you will go from sober to full throttle, a level 5 experience for 90 minutes, then you can re-dose by two more times every 1.5 hour in order to trip heavy all night.

If you can't tolerate the sting, you can take the HPBCD DMT orally by mixing into 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH tea all mixed together in 2oz very hot water, take at the exact same time all mixed together, just as the Shaman's do. The HPBCD DMT turns 100% clear when it hits the hot water. Use 100mg crushed vit c to make the harmine and thh absorb into the water should they be in freebase form.

Use a 1:1 molar ratio of DMT to HPBCD to trap all the DMT inside the tornado HPBCD cone.
This means 1:7mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the plain HPBCD.
This means 1:8mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin.

Don't forget THH doubles the half-life of the DMT, so that's why you get a 90 minute very strong trip. Very long afterglow after that as well. I am off to beach for a week, then waterpark and weight room for the summer, have a good weekend & summer.



Edited by tregar (06/10/21 06:18 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27344822 - 06/11/21 07:25 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

soo, does it work without the THH or not? as it "doubles halflife" in your body, i wonder how it could do that? reduce breakdown of dmt.. but break down non enzymaticlly? or perhaps mechanism isnt yet understood or as. aplant extract contains small amounts of maoi harmaline aswell;). as the use timing, description of what it does (reduce breakdown/extending half life) is suspiciously like normal pharma aya.


I suspect if u take your complex dmt thh sublingual and compare to normal thh dmt sublingual would be very close.  ie the combo of thh and dmt being the key, not the complex.. ssri s are known to decrease affects of tryptamines, not make them stronger.. so if thh is a classic ssri it may decrease affects however chances are it has maoi type activity either itself or because an impure plant extract with harmaline. also one would assume if thh had ssri it would be dangerous to take with harmalineso whole plant tea would be a sketchy combo and may get the syndrome... as even ssri s that are heavily studied arent fully uderstood, i imagine THH if ever studied again may prove to be more of an maoi type action increasing seritonin or metabolized and creates more classic harmaline type action. just a guess.. anyway, if complex doesnt work (or barely different then sublingual dmt without THH) i suspect the THH is not adding per say but decreasing break down of dmt in the body (as u even stated). it seems pretty obvious if look objectively.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: the man]
    #27348353 - 06/14/21 07:35 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Don't forget, this can also be used orally with 200mg harmine + 150 to 300mg THH as well, all mixed together into 2oz hot water tea, and taken at exact same time, use 100mg crushed vit C to help harmalas absorb should they be in freebase form, mix and drink all at exact same time just as Shaman's do...several factors stronger than DMT salts, 60mg feels just like actual 30g Hawaiian psychotria leaf, 80mg HPBCD DMT feels just like 40mg Hawaiian psychotria leaf, VERY STRONG, 70mg HPBCD DMT is like sit in your seat and don't move for 1 hour strong. The HPBCD DMT turns 100% completely clear when it hits the 2oz hot water tea, totally translucent.

With 70mg HPBCD DMT mixed into 200mg harmine + 300mg THH 2oz hot water tea, on earlier trip, saw walls fill with intricate 3-D honeycomb brown & orange geometrics, neon splashes of color floating in the air, music incredible, closed eye geometrics morphing and spinning. All objects around me caught in a sort of "teleportation like fortress of neon color". High frequency body vibration was very strong.

I love the longer trips, will explain below.

Someone mentioned they provided the DMT reddit with a link to this, but nobody over there seems to be interested at all...they seem to be only into the few minute "roller coaster ride" of smoked DMT. The topic also seems to get buried under a hundred other posts by day's end.

I am just the opposite, I prefer the 90 minute x repeat by twice for a 4.5 hour strong experience all night, with of course 300mg THH taken 45 minutes before it all. I grew up taking Ayahuasca x 70 times & strong cactus tea x 200 times, so I like trips that resemble cactus.

The 5-day beach trip was a complete blast...there was a group of 8 of us (5 women, 3 guys). We rented a gorgeous beach house with 4 bedrooms & pool two blocks from beach. We went to waterpark the 1st day, so much fun...walked the boardwalk with our dogs early in the morning and at night, visited a couple restaurants, 2nd day went out to pier, boardwalk, played at beach, hung out at beach-house pool every afternoon and night, etc. Visited other areas of the beach, boardwalk & town next 3 days.

So nice to get away from my "air-conditioned ant hill of a job" for a long while.

We are doing this every year for 5 days we had so much fun! Back home, thankfully we have a waterpark here where I get a summer pass every summer, go at least once a week all summer long...used to lifeguard at beach in my 20's, and later trained lifeguards at waterpark I live by. Water spirit here. There were so many people at beach and on the boardwalk, absolute Heaven. I walked for 2 hours from 20th street to 50th street and back one afternoon, people-watching & stopping at several piers.

I used to be 150 lbs until my freshman friend in college dragged me to the fieldhouse gym the football players worked out at, put on 30lbs of muscle in two years after that. I remember the first day I worked out, puked pretty hard when I got back to dorm room. Very sore for a few weeks, then it got easier to handle after that.

On the day I went to waterpark, I downed a 6oz boiled down tea made from 2 x 12" long medium size (2.5" thick diameter) genuine strong san pedro  :biggrin: that I had prepared before the trip (kept frozen till re-heated), super bitter and tripped my ass off at the waterpark...I always take cactus tea anytime I go to waterpark, been doing that for years. Complete blast. the tea felt like about 500mg of mescaline.

I've never purged from taking THH, try putting it in a capsule voidmatrix? my weight is 210, bodyfat 12%. Weight lifter since my early 20's. I get zero nausea and zero dizziness from it, completely benign to me. Only slight dizziness if I go above 300mg, but none at all below that.

As mentioned earlier, 300mg THH taken 45 minutes earlier, then sublingual 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD (use 640mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) feels to me very similar to 600mg plus of mescaline, absolutely beautiful beyond belief, which is what I use to trip on at home all the time now, and save my cactus for outdoors only. I re-dose the sublingual HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hour to continue the journey and fun for 4.5 hours total.



Edited by tregar (06/14/21 09:03 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27348576 - 06/14/21 11:06 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

soo any effects with just complexed dmt no THH?  i think people arent interested as the complex is for fat soluble hormones (think thats what u cited no?) and wont work better then normal sublingual/snorted dmt ie sorta.. but again as u stated teh THH makes blood levels higher for longer correct? similar to what MAOI would do ie ur taking small doses of aya not dmt;) dmt+maoi=aya..

cheers


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: the man]
    #27348732 - 06/15/21 04:13 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I still need to explore HPBCD...but I did my first experiment with just THH and mush. It felt like a much more emotional and feminine energy than usual. I also felt more physically drained afterward, but that could just be coincidence.

Thanks for the recommendation, tregar!


Brief trip report below:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27348729


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: LeafRaker]
    #27349121 - 06/15/21 10:47 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

the man, just give it a try already! Thanks for report LeafRaker!

I have used this stuff sublingually (if you count the number of times I re-dosed in an evening) around 18 times in 3 month period, each time it is just as strong as an oral dose, in other words 80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength. I tolerate the sting very well, no issues. But yes, just use it orally if you want. It is several factors stronger than DMT salts used orally. I should know I ran a dozen experiments with DMT salts long ago, and the HPBCD DMT blows it away in strength & all encompassing just like the Hawaiian psychotria leaf.

Here is a pic of the REAL san pedro I use everytime I go to waterpark, I make a tea out of 2 of these bad boys (2.5" thick x 12" long) and boil the tea down to 6oz, no foam, and filter thru a cotton ball in a funnel after boil down....tea made from two feels like 500mg mescaline, extremely beautiful at the waterpark...great for outdoors...trip my ass off. I use 300mg THH taken orally 45 minutes before the sublingual 80mg HPBCD DMT x redosed every 1.5 to 2 hours at home, it feels JUST LIKE 600mg plus of mescaline...beautiful beyond belief. Substitutes for the cactus for "at home use" VERY trippy, my 2 loves, oral THH + sublingual HPBCD DMT x 3 time re-dose all evening, or cactus tea for outdoors....both infinitely & profoundly beautiful.

The sports supplement place I got the plain HPBCD went out of business once pro-hormones became illegal, just like alot of other places, they carried the 1kg containers for price of two movie tickets right next to all the pro-hormones for sale, so that you could complex them at home for sublingual use, all this was explained "how to do" by chemist & weight lifter Patrick Arnold on part 5 of this paper at beginning. This is who I learned it from.

Pic: Cacti woman with four REAL san pedro each 2.5" thick x 12" long, each one equivalent of around 250mg mescaline.



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27349291 - 06/15/21 12:56 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

tregar said:
....80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength.





I haven't read through the thread yet, lots & lots to read through.

But just wondering...

So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH?

If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT?

Interesting :strokebeard: .




-OM

.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: openmind]
    #27349537 - 06/15/21 03:45 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

openmind said:
Quote:

So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH?

If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT?


Yes, no maoi is involved. Yes, the DMT is active this way, and it is active for 90 full strong minutes so long as you take THH 45 minutes before orally, as it doubles the half-life of the DMT, THH is an SRI, not an MAOI. See what Dennis Mckenna saids about this below.

Final summary below:

I have used this stuff sublingually (if you count the number of times I re-dosed in an evening) around 18 times in 3 month period, each time it is just as strong as an oral dose, in other words 80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength. Use 100mg of crushed vit C to make the harmalas absorb into the hot water tea if they are in freebase form. Drink all mixed together into the hot water tea at the exact same time, just as Shaman's do for the highest strength.

Use a 1:1 molar ratio of DMT to HPBCD to trap all the DMT inside the tornado HPBCD cone.
This means 1:7mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the plain HPBCD. (60mg DMT to 420mg HPBCD)
This means 1:8mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin. (60mg DMT to 480mg 2-hydroxy PBCD)

I tolerate the sting very well, no issues. But yes fog, just use it orally if you want. It is several factors stronger than DMT salts used orally. I should know I ran a dozen experiments with 70 to 120mg DMT salts long ago, and the HPBCD DMT blows it away in strength & all encompassing just like the Hawaiian psychotria leaf. The DMT salts were all only +3 mild on Shulgin scale, while 70mg of HPBCD DMT is a +5 on Shulgin scale whether used orally with harmine or by itself sublingually. But always include from 150mg to 300mg THH no matter what.

Procedure: 300mg tetrahydroharmine (use from 150mg to 300mg) taken 45 minutes before orally + 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD, use 640mg if using the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin using 12 drops very hot water from a nearby coffee mug all mashed together for 2 minutes on a spoon, using the end of another spoon to mash & knead it all together.

Then taken sublingually by placing bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue...hold for 15 minutes under tongue in the sublingual mucosa, then spit out any saliva (but not what's under your tongue), continue to hold any residue under tongue for 10 more minutes, never release your tongue the whole 25 minutes...press down hard with tongue the whole time to trap complex in the sublingual mucosa. 22 minutes after you begin all of this, you will go from sober to full throttle, a level 5 experience for 90 minutes, then you can re-dose by two more times every 1.5 hour in order to trip heavy all night.

The sports supplement place I got the plain HPBCD went out of business once pro-hormones became illegal, just like alot of other places, they carried the 1kg containers for price of two movie tickets right next to all the pro-hormones for sale, so that you could complex them at home for sublingual use, all this was explained "how to do" by chemist & weight lifter Patrick Arnold on part 5 of this paper at beginning. This is who I learned it from.

The importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH):

1. Post #12 shows how to convert harmaline to THH in 1.5 hour with 75% yield. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca.

2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine prolongs the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow. See attached paper.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank for evening at the vegetals, people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.

8. See post #42 (top of page 3) for 5 hour visionary journey using 300mg oral THH taken 45 minutes before, then sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT taken every 1.5 hour, mind-blowing CEV's for hours on end, music super-incredible all night long.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.

They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind.

I recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world, very interesting video, highly recommend.

Here is a pic of the REAL san pedro I use everytime I go to waterpark, I make a tea out of 2 of these bad boys (2.5" thick x 12" long) and boil the tea down to 6oz, no foam, and filter thru a cotton ball in a funnel after boil down....tea made from two feels like 500mg mescaline, extremely beautiful at the waterpark...great for outdoors...trip my ass off. I use 300mg THH taken orally 45 minutes before the sublingual 80mg HPBCD DMT x redosed every 1.5 to 2 hours at home, it feels JUST LIKE 600mg plus of mescaline...beautiful beyond belief. Substitutes for the cactus for "at home use" VERY trippy, my 2 loves, oral THH + sublingual HPBCD DMT x 3 time re-dose all evening, or cactus tea for outdoors....both infinitely & profoundly beautiful.

Pic1: Cacti woman with four REAL san pedro each 2.5" thick x 12" long, each one equivalent of around 250mg mescaline.

pic2: teamwork of everyone here was important

pic3: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl

pic4: easy 2 step process & strength chart









Edited by tregar (06/15/21 04:45 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27349957 - 06/15/21 09:31 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

he is taking it with THH which has now been found to be MAOI.. so yes its just pharma aya. and as far as teh complex goes its more for fat based molecules ie hormones etc. (may be helpful for thc?) and from what i have seen and know about how it works its unlikely adds any absorbtion to water soluble dmt salts. freebase perhaps, but probably less then water soluble already is abosrbed..

here is what pops up for thh being maoi..i mean its pretty obvious if actually has been found to increase halflife of dmt

"THH, like other harmala alkaloids, appears to be suitable primarily for oral use. Doses of 100 mg have already perceptive effect, the full dose is considered to be 300 mg, which is also the dose for sufficient inhibition of MAO (for use in psychedelic therapies). Sublingual use is also popular and effective, where the full dose is already 50 mg."

point being "complexed" dmt is no more active then subligual dmt salts from what i can see..  if get full blown effects with complex vs same dose of pure dmt then would be of interest and why likely as he stated"dont get why reddit isnt getting excited". the whole purpose of HPBCD is to get non water soluble drugs to move through lipid water membranes.. ie nicotine caffien is water soluble goes through the buccal tissue very easy, while thc is alot harder to go through your mouth tissue(ie snorted cocaine vs thc). it has been used for getting micro milligram amounts of hormones through skin not large many mg doses.. so is it better to have a freebase dmt complexed for absorbtion vs watr soluble form? i would say water soluble would be better absorbed through buccal tissue. in otherwords a step back

effects are only from weak maoi action then taking dmt for a form of pharma aya so duration is shorter and effects come a bit quicker as holding in your mouth.

not taking anything away from you enjoying ur mix, just that its more a pharmaya not a smoked dmt replacement.

sometimes I wish murple was still around to straighten us all out

here is an article saying potetial for THH to be a neurotoxin https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4614-1542-8_5 so may not be super wise to take it ALL the time just incase...


Edited by the man (06/16/21 12:02 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: openmind]
    #27350066 - 06/16/21 12:10 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
Quote:

tregar said:
....80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength.





I haven't read through the thread yet, lots & lots to read through.

But just wondering...

So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH?

If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT?

Interesting :strokebeard: .




-OM

.





yes THH is teh MAOI involved making it orally active, infact he even quoted it from mckenna saying exactly that "inhibition of the MAO... makes half life 2x).. and he even uses it exactly how would want to use an MAOI taken before the doses. SRI tend to make trips weaker not stronger aswell if need more PROOF other then tragers quote of mckenna saying its an MAOI.

so could be dangerous for folks who dont think they are taking an MAOI... sorry trager not to keep dumping on your parade but have to remember wiki doesnt always have things correct :wink:

This is pharma aya with extra steps, nothing more. try adding acid to your dmt making it water soluble and compare with your THH maoi mix and see if it works better then the complex :wink:


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: the man]
    #27350432 - 06/16/21 09:36 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

the man said:
Quote:

openmind said:
Quote:

tregar said:
....80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength.





I haven't read through the thread yet, lots & lots to read through.

But just wondering...

So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH?

If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT?

Interesting :strokebeard: .




-OM

.





yes THH is teh MAOI involved making it orally active, infact he even quoted it from mckenna saying exactly that "inhibition of the MAO... makes half life 2x).. and he even uses it exactly how would want to use an MAOI taken before the doses. SRI tend to make trips weaker not stronger aswell if need more PROOF other then tragers quote of mckenna saying its an MAOI.

so could be dangerous for folks who dont think they are taking an MAOI... sorry trager not to keep dumping on your parade but have to remember wiki doesnt always have things correct :wink:

This is pharma aya with extra steps, nothing more. try adding acid to your dmt making it water soluble and compare with your THH maoi mix and see if it works better then the complex :wink:




I think you're missing some of the points.

1. He did do the same test with salted DMT and the only difference was the salt burns the mouth, hence the reason to use the complex for sublingual.

2.  He did tests with THH preceding the DMT dose and also at the same time as the DMT dose, both worked. Weak argument anyway since traditional brews don't time out their caapi and DMT, it's all in one cup.

3. The article you linked about THH = neurotoxic seems unsure. In the last line of the abstract it leaves the possibility that it has a completely opposite, neuroprotective effect.

4. THH was believed to be an MAOI but more recently was demonstrated to be a weak SSRI. If they more recently switched back to believing its an MAOI, can you link to that?



Here's a quote from that article that is a little eery tho:
"Among βC cations, the most potent neurotoxins are N,N-dimethylated βC cations (2,9-diMe-βC+s) that are produced from sequential N-methylation of βCs at the N-2 (pyrido) and N-9 (indole) nitrogens." Interesting how N,N-Dimethyl pops up there. Maybe Aya is just DMT contributing its N,N-Dimethyl to beta carbolines to make a potent neurotoxin?


Edited by Icon (06/16/21 09:53 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: the man]
    #27350733 - 06/16/21 01:01 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Now I am just confused...I feel people are saying totally different things here




Quote:

tregar said:

Quote:

openmind said:So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH?

If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT?


Yes, no maoi is involved. Yes, the DMT is active this way







Quote:

the man said:
he is taking it with THH which has now been found to be MAOI.. so yes its just pharma aya.






Tregar is saying this is being done with out any MAOI involved, just DMT and HPBCD held underneath the tongue.

Tregar is saying that DMT is active sublingually when mixed with HPBCD, with out ever taking any MAOI at all.

But then "The man" is saying that this method IS in fact being done/taken with an MAOI/THH....he says that this is basically just pharma-aya that is being taken in a sublingual manner.

So what is going on here?

Can someone explain what this is all about simply in just a few sentences or with just a few basic "points".




What I am wondering about.

-Is this a way that DMT can be taken with out any MAOI involved, or is this basically just sublingual pharma-aya?

-If this is a way for DMT to be taken with out an MAOI...Then how does HPBCD allow DMT to become active in the body with out any MAOI involved?

-How is MAO not metabolizing the DMT when it is taken sublingually with HPBCD?




Sublingual administration skips first pass metabolism, but if I understand things correctly there is a lot of MAO in the brain and the DMT in the blood stream will eventually pass through the liver where there is a lot of MAO. I just don't see how DMT can be active with out any inhibition of MAO, even if it is taken under the tongue.


Either way...interesting stuff for sure! I have always been curious about "sublingual" DMT. Just want some clarification on what is going on here, if this is being done with or with out the inhibition of MAO.





-OM

.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: openmind] * 1
    #27351035 - 06/16/21 04:38 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

It's my understanding that the complexed freebase is passing straight into the blood stream, which allows it to work similarly to boofing or injecting it.

I can't find any Tregar posts about just sublingual complexed freebase though, seems all these trials are about that + THH. So now we're debating whether THH is affecting the experience because it's actually an MAOI that is extending the half life of DMT after it's cycling the blood stream, or if it's an SSRI and having a synergizing effect in some other way.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Icon]
    #27351085 - 06/16/21 05:36 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
It's my understanding that the complexed freebase is passing straight into the blood stream, which allows it to work similarly to boofing or injecting it.

I can't find any Tregar posts about just sublingual complexed freebase though, seems all these trials are about that + THH. So now we're debating whether THH is affecting the experience because it's actually an MAOI that is extending the half life of DMT after it's cycling the blood stream, or if it's an SSRI and having a synergizing effect in some other way.





I see.

I'm caught up and understand now lol.





-OM

.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: openmind]
    #27351558 - 06/17/21 12:25 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

"2.  He did tests with THH preceding the DMT dose and also at the same time as the DMT dose, both worked. Weak argument anyway since traditional brews don't time out their caapi and DMT, it's all in one cup.


Thats fine, but doesnt mean it isnt MAOI.. pharma aya folks take MAOI first then shrooms or dmt is what i was saying..

did he make a salt or just freebase dmt that burnt tho :wink:

anyway, long and short of it is doesn't really work without the THH.. if worked as an SRI it would dampin trips would it not?

long and short of it its an aya like mix... likes the effects so who am i to argue with that but should be aware your taking a weak maoi.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: the man] * 1
    #27355055 - 06/19/21 10:29 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I did an experiment yesterday, taking 300mg THH 45 minutes before orally, then 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD in 12 drops near boiling hot water, mashed and kneaded for 2 minutes really well on spoon using end of another spoon to scrape, mix and mash it all together with muscles, then placed bottom of tongue on spoon, it all adhered to bottom of tongue as usual...I find if you knead it really well, in other words get all the DMT to complex inside the HPBCD cone, that the sting is not bad, don't leave any of the DMT un-complexed.

I always dry the bottom side of my tongue and top of mucosa membrane with a tissue before I do this.

I kept it under tongue trapped in the sublingual mucosa by pressing down with tongue really hard, I spit out any saliva around 10 minutes later, but kept any residual amount still trapped under tongue, once any saliva builds up to where it is uncomfortable, just spit out but continue to keep tongue pressed down while you do this, try to keep any residual amount trapped under tongue for a good 20 minutes total, I find it all dissolves...I was flying so high level 5 strength for a good 1 and 1/2 hour, having the time of my life, and re-dosed every 1.5 hour, doing the same...it was an incredible experience, enjoyed movies and music all night, again this all felt like 600mg of mescaline, beautiful beyond belief. Wonderful strong open eyed and closed eye visuals for 4.5 hours, splashes of neon color again washed across the walls, movies and music so infinitely beautiful.

Anytime I do this, I always take antioxidants: 300mg +R-ALA, 1000mg vitamin C, vitamin E, and drink extra water. I also take 6 to 8 caps of fish oil daily and 1 cup of 3 berry blend in my protein shake, super antioxidant power and the fish oil keeps depression far, far away...fabulous good mood with fish oil and sunlight daily.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27364395 - 06/26/21 05:54 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

In conclusion, complete summary:

HPBCD is itself very soluble in water (greater than 1000 mg/ml at room temperature). This increases with VERY HOT near boiling water. So now you see how I used in earlier trip 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD in 10 to 12 drops for sublingual or oral use. 1ml = 20 drops, 0.5ml = 10 drops, therefore each drop of water can hold 50mg HPBCD at room temp, or twice that 100mg HPBCD in each drop of very hot water from a nearby coffee mug.

The 2-hydroxy PBCD will work just fine, try it exactly like this:

1. put 60mg DMT freebase on a spoon
2. cover with 480mg of the 2-hydroxy PBCD powder (1:1 molar ratio), use 420mg if using plain HPBCD.
3. add 10 drops of near boiling hot water from a coffee mug
4. stir, scrape, and mash it all together for 2 minutes...knead/mash/scrape using end of another spoon...it will look similar to 10 to 12 drop liquid complex below.
5. dry bottom of tongue and top of sublingual mucosa with a tissue
6. put bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue.
7. Hold in sublingual mucosa under tongue for 15 minutes, it will all dissolve, I've done this enough times to notice it all dissolve in 15 minutes, even 110mg complexed DMT dissolves in 15 minutes sublingually.
8. 22 minutes after you begin all this, (1/2 the time of an oral dose) you will go from baseline to full throttle, 60mg DMT will take you to a level 3.5 on Shulgin strength scale.
9. So long as you took 150mg to 300mg of tetrahydroharmine 45 minutes earlier, it will double the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it.

Colors will only be neon-colorful, music will only sound bad-ass incredible, beauty enhancement will be "over the top" and actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Important teamwork takes place with THH + DMT.
-------------------------------------
From 5-19-21: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD sublingual report dosed x 3 times every 2 hours
-------------------------------------
Full Journey trip report:

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary like tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes...

...you feel a mild to moderate sting for around 15 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal.

Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa.

Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD (use 480mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) with 2 minutes stirring, mashing & kneading all of it hard (to force the DMT into the tornado like HPBCD cone) using your muscles on a spoon with 10 to 12 drops very hot water, put bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere...and hold for 15 minutes in the sublingual mucosa, begins to work in 22 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva. As I gently spit out the saliva, I will keep any tiny residual amount still trapped or pressed down under tongue for another 5 minutes usually, but I have noticed most of the time, it all dissolves within 15 minutes.

...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally any time I do this using the sublingual DMT.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.

The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 1.5 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven.:smile:

...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away.

I love the "oral 250 to 300mg THH + sublingual 420mg HPBCD complexed to 60mg DMT administration" as there is a complete lack of "queasiness feeling during the journey", perhaps because there is no harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines...I don't know the answer for sure, but I like it.

Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 1.5 hour I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life. :love:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I have found a way to make this stuff portable & even storable in a freezer or elsewhere, simply sucking up the 0.5ml off the spoon into a 3ml plastic syringe. The syringe's liquid complex becomes re-flowable again after sitting at room temp for a short while, in case it has been pulled from freezer storage.

Pic1: 3ml syringe and puppy dog sunglasses storage case for syringes

Pic2: Woman sitting on the Eleusis ruins of ancient Greece where the sacred Kykeon entheogenic beverage was drank in ritual for nearly 2,000 years. In its heyday, up to 3,000 initiates could be received at a time.

pic3: Spirit animals watch on & guide the process as 2-step HPBCD DMT for sublingual use with oral THH Ayahuasca is prepared with meditation, prayer & intentions. Table showing subjective DMT strength from 20 to 80mg.

See page 4 post #27330099, how this was discovered with the help of Ayahuasca, Queen of the forest.







Asante said:
Quote:

Oh guys, in the Extra Special Stores you pay extra special prices.

The HPBCD is 50 bucks a kilo in China.





Edited by tregar (06/27/21 08:19 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27364484 - 06/26/21 08:02 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tregar said:
9. So long as you took 150mg to 300mg of tetrahydroharmine 45 minutes earlier, it will double the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it.




So sublingual complexed DMT works on its own then right? The THH just makes it last longer and more Aya feeling?

Do you only recommend THH and not a combination of harmine and THH?


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Icon]
    #27364916 - 06/27/21 07:12 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Icon said:
Quote:

So sublingual complexed DMT works on its own then right? The THH just makes it last longer and more Aya feeling?

Do you only recommend THH and not a combination of harmine and THH?


Yes, the HPBCD complexed DMT works all by itself, nothing else needed, but I highly recommend taking 150 to 300mg THH 45 minutes earlier orally before this is all begun...to experience a trip like high dose cactus tea or true Ayahuasca, so bad ass! I've done this over 23 times in 3 months (if you count the times I re-dose every 1.5 hour during the evening, usually twice re-dose the HPBCD DMT.)

pic: 3ml syringe with 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD (use 640mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) in 12 drops near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug prepared on a spoon using the end of another spoon to mix, mash and knead/scrape it all together hard using muscles for 2 minutes, then every last bit of it sucked up easily by syringe (none left behind), simply shoot liquid under tongue and hold for 15 minutes in sublingual mucosa when ready to use (it all dissolves in 15 minutes)...blast off 22 minutes after this is all begun (1/2 the time of an oral dose).

The syringes are portable, freezable, I prepare three of these syringes for use during the night, so I can take one sublingually every 1.5 hour, to have a long 4.5 hour strong (+5 Shulgin level strength) journey with long afterglow. Of course, I always take 300mg THH 45 minutes earlier. The syringes come in packs of 100 for dirt cheap. I store the pre-loaded syringes in a hard sunglasses case.

The syringe's liquid complex becomes re-flowable again after sitting at room temp for a short while, in case it has been pulled from freezer storage.


Edited by tregar (06/27/21 08:19 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27367225 - 06/29/21 08:06 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

In conclusion, the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH):

1. Part 10 of this paper: shows how to convert harmaline to THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca.

2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. LSD, mescaline, shrooms all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank for evening at the vegetals, people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.

professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Quote:


Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.




300mg oral THH + sublingual 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT is like a "super-mescaline experience" in my experience. Or orally all drank together at same time mixed into a hot water tea: 300mg THH + 200mg harmine + 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT. Use 100mg crushed vitamin C to help the harmalas absorb into the hot water tea should they be in freebase form.

It all feels identical to around 600mg of mescaline in my experience. She is very trippy....and this is a great thing in my experience, as bridgesii has become quite expensive, and more rare, while this is dirt cheap. I've taken Ayahuasca x 75 times and cactus tea over 200 times, the THH + HPBCD DMT is so bad ass, just like high dose cactus tea, completely replaces it just fine, my two loves. For example, you can re-dose sublingual HPBCD DMT x every 1.5 hour x twice more at night, for 3 times dose for a 4.5 hour experience with long afterglow, gives long strong trip just like with cactus.

300mg oral THH + sublingual 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT = feels like 600mg super mescaline :heart:

pic1: 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before + 80mg sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT with the 80mg sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dosed every 1.5 hour for 4.5 hour total experience with super-long aftgerglow: feels identical to me to around 600mg of mescaline or 1.5 of these 12" long fat bridgesii made into a tea. Pic also shows fresh from right off the garden vine frozen morning glory seeds to preserve high activity, DL tartaric acid, high in acetaldehyde sherry wine, miracle grow, mason jars with funnels stuffed with cotton balls for filtration, see part 8 of paper on morning glory seeds for more info.

pic2: now my garden only has these smaller bridgesii left for now, not as thick.

Very happy to have discovered the oral THH + strong HPBCD DMT experience as not only have I run out of Hawaiian psychotria (which I used to use for all my past 75 Ayahuasca experiences)...as there is no more on the market for past 3 years, it has all been diverted to the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America....but my garden no longer has any long thick bridgesii left either (top pic), only these smaller bridgesii seen in middle. I save my rare catus for outdoor trips to the waterpark only...and use oral 300mg THH + 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT indoors all the time now, replaces the cactus just fine, extremely similar. :heart:









Edited by tregar (06/29/21 08:57 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27367631 - 06/29/21 01:02 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Part 11: How to easily extract 1.5g DMT from 150g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask

For the HPBCD DMT experiments, extracted DMT as described below:

1) A procedure (based on Noman's or Norman's tek) which yields 1.5g DMT from 150 gram powdered bark: all 4 pulls are using 90ml naptha on 150g powdered bark mixed into 1.8 liter lye water (1.5 x 150g bark = use 225g lye dissolved into the 1.8 liter 150 degree hot water.) Just heat up 1.8 liter of water in a big pyrex pot on stove and use thermometer to pull if off when it reads 150 degree F.

Slowly sprinkle lye using safety goggles and long chemical resistant gloves that go up each arm, and stand back as far as possible...(the hot water will fizz but not boil up) into your pyrex pot of hot water. After each sprinkle, stir the water a bit with a super long metal spoon. It will "growl" a bit as it fizzes, but this way it dissolves very fast into already hot water.

Pour this lye water into your 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask using a large automotive funnel. Add 150 grams of finely powdered bark, and use a long chopstick or similar to mix it all together.

Use (.6 x 150g bark = 90ml naptha pull for each of the 4 pulls). An erlenmeyer flask makes it easy to do pulls using a long glass pipette, as the top of flask is tapered, so all the naptha collects at the top for easy pull.

Use an electronic thermometer to check the temp of the Lye water bark mix, when the lye water cools down from 150 degree F to around 120 degree F, then it's time to add your 90ml of naptha, make sure your 2L flask is sitting on a mitten or similar...this makes it easy to swirl your flask to mix the contents, make sure you are using the proper rubber stopper number 9.5 to seal the top of your flask once you turn it upside down then right side up to mix the contents as well.

Prefer to do a combination of swirling and a couple of upside down then right side up turns of the 2L flask, then once right side up, let the rubber stopper out, and let the stopper just barely sit in the flask (not tight), so gasses can exit. After 1/2 hour, all the 90ml of naptha will migrate & collect at the top of the tapered erlenmeyer flask...use your long glass pipette to collect the naptha, that's it! very easy, no mess, and the tapered erlenmeyer flask and glass pipette with round rubber plunger at the end makes it easy to collect the naptha at the top without collecting any lye water by accident. This is the way a chemist can do it.

I highly suggest using these 5.5 x 7.5 inch pyrex dishes w/covers found at *almart, simply pour each of your 90ml naptha pulls into each of 4 dishes, stack them in the freezer, 8 hours later, pour off naptha thru a coffee filter secured to a wide one-half pint jar to collect any xtals floating in the ice cold naptha, and simply scrape up all the xtals from your square pyrex once it is bone dry.

Super easy instructions in post #50 for 1.5g DMT from 150g bark all in one day using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask and long glass pipette with rubber stopper on end for the pulls.

1st pull = 1200mg, 2nd pull = 200mg, 3rd pull = 100mg, 4rth pull = 50mg, done this x 3 times, each time yield always at or better than 1.5g. Most of the crystals are all stuck to the bottom of shallow dish each time, very nice!





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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27371302 - 07/02/21 06:42 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Pic of bridgesii cacti tea, will either filter the boiled down tea thru a cotton ball stuffed into a funnel sitting in a mason jar to get out any particles which are irritating to the stomach and intestines and cause nausea, or let it sit in fridge for a few days, and all irritating tiny particles will collect at bottom, then just decant and drink the tea above the tiny bottom layer of particles which stick to bottom of jar.

When taken before heading out to waterpark, the waterpark and outdoor nature look like an outdoor fantasy fairy tale land full of neon-colorful bikinis. Been doing this for over 6 years, water spirit here.

300mg of oral THH taken 45 minutes before then using sublingual 80mg HPBCD DMT feels identical to 600mg of mescaline to me, like a "super-mescaline". This is what I use at home now, and save the precious rare cactus for outdoors only.

Combo: Whenever I drink a tea made out of one 12" long x 2.5" to 3.0" wide san pedro around 45 minutes after drinking the bridgesii tea, feels like around 600mg of mescaline, super-potent combo. Never drink bridgesii and san pedro at the same time, always stagger at least 45 minutes apart, or else the trace maoi's in bridgesii intenstify the trace maoi's in san pedro and cause unpleasant symptoms, same with THH , when using it to intensify or make bridgesii tea feel way more potent than it really is, always take the THH around 45 minutes or longer AFTER the tea is drank. You don't want the trace maoi's in bridgesii interacting with the SRI which is THH at the same time. 250mg THH can make 450mg mescaline feel like 600mg as well, but only when staggered as mentioned.

Pic1: 1/2 pint jar of bridgesii tea, each jar approximately 450mg mescaline (two of the smaller bridgesii from my garden seen above). If you look closely, you can see the tiny layer of particles stuck to bottom, the tea causes zero nausea when decanting and drinking only the tea above the particles stuck to bottom. Have never purged in over 200 cacti tea doses over period of many, many years, as I always either filter thru a cotton ball or use fridge decantation or combo of both.

Pic2: The Late Great DM Turner on mescaline, totally agree when everything he saids...this is why I love the oral 300mg THH + sublingual 80mg HPBCD DMT so much, it's identical.






Edited by tregar (07/02/21 07:04 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27373750 - 07/04/21 09:19 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Yield from 170g finely powdered bark, followed instructions on post above #27367631 using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask with 9.5 number stopper.

1st pull far left, dish + coffee filter = 1668mg
2nd pull in middle, dish + coffee filter = 517mg
3rd pull to far right = 155mg
4rth pull close to nothing
3 pulls get majority of it all (95%)
total = 2340mg

1) For 170g bark, use 1.9 Liter 150 degree water, when water, lye and bark all dissolved, liquid will all come up exactly to the 2,000 ml line on the flask.
2) 170g bark x 1.5 = use 255 grams lye
3) use 3 x 90ml naptha pulls, each 90ml naptha addition will rise 1.5" or so above 2L line on flask for easy collection using a long glass pipette.
4) allow 30 minutes for each naptha pull to rise to top for collection, this will ensure it all rises. Do pulls one after another, around 1.5 hour beginning to end, then you are done with 3 pulls.

The pre-heated water with mixed lye keeps liquid/naptha warm...I also keep a 60 watt lamp bulb with reflector close or pointed to back of flask the entire time, so each of my 3 pulls are around 125 degree F when I measured with electronic thermometer.

Highly suggest using these 5.5 x 7.5 inch pyrex dishes w/covers found at *almart, simply pour each of your 90ml naptha pulls into each of 4 dishes, stack them in the freezer, 8 hours later, pour off naptha thru a coffee filter secured to a wide one-half pint jar to collect any xtals floating in the ice cold naptha (seen above attached with clothespins to a 1/2 pint wide jar), and simply scrape up all the xtals from your square pyrex once it is bone dry.

It's very important to let your dishes sit undisturbed for a long while, these dishes sat in freezer for 12 hours during day (11am till 11pm), then overnight for 8 hours.

This is the stuff used in all the HPBCD complexed DMT experiments with 250 to 300mg oral THH taken 45 minutes earlier. The HPBCD DMT can be used sublingually (all dissolves in 15 minutes) with 90 minutes of strong activity, and re-dosed every 1.5 hour x 2 more times at night...or dissolved into a 2oz hot water tea with 200mg harmine and 250 to 300mg THH already dissolved into it, use 100mg or so of crushed vitamin C to help harmalas dissolve should they be in freebase form, either way, sublingually or orally, the HPBCD DMT is exact same strength, the oral HPBCD DMT is several factors stronger than DMT salts in my experience, just like using actual 30 to 40g Hawaiian psychotria.

The 250mg to 300mg THH taken orally 45 minutes before with the 80mg HPBCD DMT used sublingually (or orally dissolved with harmine + THH hot water tea all drank at exact same time) simulates 600mg of "super mescaline" in my experience, but dirt cheap compared to the expensive and rare cactus, great for use indoors, saving precious cactus for outdoors only.

Remember, colors will only be neon-colorful, music will only sound bad-ass incredible, beauty enhancement will be "over the top" and actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Important teamwork takes place with THH + DMT. THH also doubles the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full 90 minutes out of each HPBCD DMT dose.





Edited by tregar (07/04/21 12:30 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27378815 - 07/08/21 08:42 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

To answer the question about the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin compared to plain HPBCD:

Update: 7/8/2021: Last night, after not having taken anything for 7 days, took oral 300mg THH 45 minutes earlier, then sublingual (held under tongue 15 minutes) 90mg DMT complexed to 720mg of the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin (use 630mg if using plain HPBCD from China), phenomenal strength, felt like 700mg of mescaline, one of the most intense and enjoyable visionary experiences of my life, neon colors super abundant with open eyes, visuals flying past me at amazing speeds, visuals so strong, whether with closed or open eyes, geometrics and colored sparkles filled every inch of space, it looked like neon colors were melting in mid-air and reforming into infinite varities of colors. The trip while being super strong, was entirely relaxing and calm, just like with high dose cactus. I am blown away.

Euphoria and beauty enhancement way over the top, music entirely alien sounding and every sound as if heard for the first time...women on the movies playing looked like super-beautiful cartoon caricatures of themselves...so very impressed. So yes, in conclusion, the 2-hydroxy works just as well as the plain HPBCD. I re-dosed every hour and half x 2 more times during night, enjoyed movies to the max...the 90mg HPBCD DMT was incredibly trippy beyond belief! Each dose fully dissolved under tongue at the 15 minute point, at 22 minute point went to full throttle, and stayed there good 1.5 hour each dose. So very glad I took it last night, afterglow so nice.



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27379070 - 07/08/21 11:56 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Answers to questions...

1. This THH is stuff I make myself, been making it since 2010, the days when professor8 started to make it, long time chemist. It is extremely pure, I have no clue about the stuff from liftmode, make mine for around 25 cents per 300mg dose, instructions on post #12.

2. The dmt is yellow/orangish colored xtals, smells strongly like plastic, keep frozen at all times in a small tiny container with screw cap to preserve activity. I even shoot wine preservation gas canister (inert mixture of argon, etc.) from *mazon into the container with my finger over top to replace the oxygen in the container before tightening screw cap top back on, before putting away in freezer. I would only use the dry stuff, if it has any water or grain alcohol in it, it simply does not work well at all.

3. How I do it: add 90mg freebase orange/yellow DMT to a spoon, add (90 x 7 = 630mg of HPBCD powder on top, use 90 x 8 =720 mg if it's the 2-hydroxy PBCD), then add 10 drops of boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug (water pre-microwaved) on top it all. I prefer to use 10 drops whenever possible instead of 12 drops, as it's extremely easy to all keep under tongue, with less saliva production, 12 drops is fine if using 110mg of so of complexed DMT. I stir and scrape it back and forth using muscles on spoon for 2 minutes, using the end of another spoon to scrape/knead/mix it all together with force...it forms a sticky gel looking complex, this is still flowable into a 3ml syringe for storage in freezer if you want to store long term.

I prefer to assemble 3 of these 0.5ml full (10 drops of complex) syringes ahead of time, so they are all ready to go for the evening, just shooting a single syringe's complex under tongue every 1.5 hour. These 3ml syringes are dirt cheap for a pack of 100.

I then place bottom of tongue onto spoon, or shoot a single syringe's content under tongue...it all will adhere, hold under tongue for 15 minutes, it all dissolves, yes there is a sting...but I actually enjoy it, and it's so worth it for the super strong beautiful results with zero nausea/dizziness...around 22 minutes since starting all this, go to full throttle in terms of strength, which is held for around 1.5 hour, which is point I usually re-dose. Don't forget I always take from 250mg to 300mg THH around 45 minutes earlier..I recommend using at least 150mg minimum.

I prefer this method over taking the HPBCD DMT orally with 200mg harmine, as the harmine gives me some slight dizziness and heavyness...with the sublingual route, there is ZERO nausea and dizziness, and it feels more like mescaline as compared to Ayahuasca, which has the harmine in it. For a slight harmine feel, you could always take 20 to 30mg of harmine by itself sublingually (no hpbcd needed) under tongue around 1/2 hour before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT for more of an Ayahuasca feel if that's what you prefer.

4. I've used this stuff sublingually for over 3 months now, around 30 times total if you count the number of times I've re-dosed in an evening (usually re-dose x 2 more times), as I prefer a long 4.5 hour trip with super-long afterglow, similar to a long cactus tea journey. I am completely serious when I say 300mg THH orally + 90mg complexed DMT feels identical to 700mg of mescaline. I've taken up to 850mg purified mescaline in the past (upper limit). It is beautiful beyond belief, and super-dirt cheap. Now a days, you need three 12" long x 2.5" wide PC san pedro just to get a mild 300 to 350mg mescaline trip that barely gets you off the ground, can cost quite a bit just for a mild dose, as bridgesii is super-rare these days. This completely replaces the high dose cactus tea. This feels like 18" long of 2.5" wide thick bridgesii, completely mind-blowing.

But I will add for outdoor use, the PC San Pedro (3 of the 12" long x 2.5" wide) brewed into a tea (around 300 to 350mg mescaline) taken 1st, then 1 hour later, take 250mg of THH, will make the San Pedro feel just like 300mg + 200mg mescaline = a feel identical to 500mg of mescaline, I've done this same method countless times before being driven to waterpark, where I trip my ass off all morning and early afternoon long...like an outdoor fantasy fairtale land full of neon colorful bikinis. It's way strong but completely relaxing, even calmer then mushrooms. I can hold normal conversations and have complete control of my faculties while tripping my brains out outdoors.



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27380991 - 07/09/21 06:31 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Hello and thank you. I tried in another thread but thought I might catch you here. Have you ever vaporized DMT and/or had a breakthrough experience? I'm wondering what the difference in trip experience is. I know harmalas taken prior to vaporized DMT is much different than just smoking DMT. Just wonder how this sublingual complex with the THH compares...from what I gather from the posts, this sublingual complex is more gentle and mescaline like. Perhaps there's benefits to both. Only one way to know for sure!


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: idontknow1]
    #27384034 - 07/12/21 08:00 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

This should help answer your question idontknow1:

professor8 (from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Quote:

Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.



You are correct idontknow, 150 to 300mg oral THH 45 minutes ealier then 80mg sublingual HPBCD DMT is identical to around 600mg of mescaline, beautiful beyond belief.

New data has revealed that THH is not a 5-ht2a agonist at all, but rather a strong agonist at all three adrenal receptors, just like mescaline. It has around the same tolerance as that of mescaline, very short tolerance, you can use it again with just 4 days off if you want (not a good idea though, best to wait at least 7 days or more off in between use), whereas with LSD (5-ht2a agonist), there is a long tolerance, more like 2 weeks. Both mescaline and THH block serotonin strongly, therefore they are both potent 5-ht1a agonist. 5-ht1a agonism results in serotonin blocking, which make up over 80% of brain 5-ht. Ibogaine and THH have been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors (LSD, mescaline, shrooms), which are competitive with substrate. I would say the main thing to get out of this is that DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but requires teamwork with THH to do this, day to day normal survival filters (serotonin 5-ht) are then blocked and all barriers & doors are broken down as a result, divine transcendence results with the teamwork....ie music sounds incredible, beauty enhancement is infinite, real Ayahuasca visions appear, colors are neon and not subdued and dark, spiritual insights are powerful, etc.

When high dose THH and moderate dose DMT are combined, they form in my experience what is known as "super-mescaline", dirt-cheap experience which is identical to high dose mescaline in my experience, add in some harmine and it becomes Ayahuasca in feel.

INDOORS:

More on tolerance...due to my work schedule, I only have 2 weekends off, but have several midweek days off every other week, so I take a 300mg oral THH 45 minutes earlier + 90mg sublingual HPBCD DMT journey on Wed, 9 days later on a Friday have another journey, then 5 days later have another journey on a Wed, then 9 days later have another journey on a Friday, since I re-dose every 1.5 hour, I am taking total of 3 sublingual HPBCD DMT doses, giving me a 4.5 hour strong trip with super-long afterglow...so I basically use this stuff x 4 times a month, keeps me extremely happy and depression free.

I have ZERO tolerance using it like this, with extended time off from the journeys every other week, which makes up for the week when I use it again 5 days later due to not having every weekend off.

OUTDOORS:

Should I venture outdoors to the waterpark, where I get a pass every summer (former beach and deep-water waterpark lifeguard), also a lifeguard instructor for many years at the waterpark...

I will use outdoors instead: 3 x 12" long 2.5" wide or so PC san pedro cactus tea (PC san pedro probably accounts for 99% of all san pedro on this continent) this gives me around 350mg mescaline tea. Yes, you can still trip hard on PC san pedro if you use enough!

I will take this boiled down tea first. After the tea has sat in fridge several days in 1/2 pint tall jar for all the nausea causing sediment to fall and stick to bottom, just decant and drink only what is above the thin tiny sediment layer for ZERO nausea, or alternately simply filter tea brew thru a cotton ball in a funnel to eliminate the nausea causing sediment.

...then 45 minutes later take 250mg of THH, always stagger so the trace maoi's in cactus do not interact with the SRI which is THH at same time, which can cause unpleasant body symptoms.

The combination of the approx 350mg mescaline tea + 250mg THH gives me a trip identical to around 500mg of mescaline, trip my ass off outdoors at waterpark all day, super strong while completely relaxing and calm, can even hold normal conversations and complete control of all my faculties while tripping level 5 Shulgin strength outside. The beauty outdoors in nature is breathtaking and unbelievable.

Pic: waterpark nature fun


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27387724 - 07/14/21 05:54 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

In conclusion...

7/15/2021 important update to the diary: After 3 months working with this stuff, I decided to try some experiments, taking as usual 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before taking the 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg plain HPBCD in 10 drops boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug all stirred/mashed/scraped/kneaded together on a spoon using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, stirring alone is not good enough, use scraping & mashing, as scientist form complexes with force mashing/kneading...then placing bottom of tongue on to spoon, the sticky gel-like complex all adheres. Held sublingually under tongue pressed down into the sublingual mucosa (only 100 microns thick) for 15 minutes (it all dissolves in 15 minutes).

In preparation for an evening's journey, I will often suck up the 0.5ml (10 drop complex) into a 3ml plastic syringe, pre-preparing 3 of these syringes, each with 90mg HPBCD complex so I can shoot one of these re-dose under my tongue every 1.5 hour without having to make more while I'm tripping. They can even be stored long-term in the freezer, and they de-frost quickly at room-temp when pulled out of freezer.

--> What I've been doing recently is experimenting with taking 200mg of harmine orally around an hour or more before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT. In other words, I'm taking the oral harmine at around the same time I'm taking the oral 300mg THH.

I have found this is especially useful in overcoming any developed tolerance to the sublingual HPBCD DMT, this use of oral harmine seems to completely reset any tolerance and drastically lower the body's overall MAO defenses for the entire evening, allowing for a sublingual HPBD DMT journey that is extremely powerful and very long duration when there is any sort of developed DMT tolerance.

The harmine seems to impart a very long 5 hour total in my experience "lowering of MAO defenses system wide in the body", so when I continue to take the sublinugal HPBCD DMT under my tongue x every 1.5 hour I continue this extremely powerful experience for 4.5 hours total with super-long afterglow.

--> Alternately, what one can do is use 30mg sublingual harmine (no complexing to HPBCD needed) taken 1/2 hour before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT, this could prove nearly identical to using 200mg oral harmine, I will experiment with this in the future in place of the oral harmine.

--> I know that I had developed a strong tolerance as when I tried sublingual 90mg HPBCD DMT earlier in the day, it did not work at all, until after I had taken the harmine...which completely reset my tolerance, then a couple hours after taking the harmine the sublingual 90mg HPBCD DMT worked with full force, stronger than anything previously encountered.

I recently experienced the most powerful journey out of all the many journeys I have taken in 3 months, by experimenting as written above...this taking first of 300mg THH 45 minutes before then of 200mg harmine around an hour or more in the evening before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT x 3 total sublingual re-doses during the evening (every 1.5 hour) really turbo-charged the experiences...just completely blown away.

The open-eyed visuals were extremely powerful, Shulgin level 5 strength easily, impossible not on this earth neon-colors on all the walls constantly shifting into other colors, with mind-bending geometrics, beauty-enhancement so over the top & infinite, music so incredible, actresses on the movies again looked like super-beautiful glowing dazzling cartoon caricatures of themselves, felt identical to 700mg of mescaline, but this was with a developed tolerance.

I have been completely able to maintain this level 5 shulgin strength level for 4.5 total hours with no weakness or lowering of strength even on the 3rd re-dose, completely awestruck, and this has been accomplished when I had a tolerance on monday, after having taken this stuff only 4 days earlier, I wanted to see if harmine would make a difference in lowering the developed DMT tolerance, and it did drastically.

I can only imagine what it might do when one does not have a tolerance, waiting normal 7 days or longer before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT again, which is the way I normally use it.

Based on these findings, I encourage other future psychonauts to experiment with adding in some 200mg harmine either orally or alternately 30mg harmine used 1/2 hour sublingually before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT...to lower the body's overall MAO system defenses for the entire course of these sublingual HPBCD DMT re-doses all evening long, as this single taking of only 1 dose harmine works incredibly well for the entire evening, a good 5 hours total in my experience. I am able to maintain Shulgin level 5 strength for each of the 3 re-doses with ease, even with a developed tolerance, even though I plan to go back to my normal zero tolerance 7 to 9 day time-frame between doses. I will again experiment with usage of the single dose harmine even without a developed tolerance in the future.

This single usage of either one-time dose 200mg oral harmine or one-time dose sublingual 30mg harmine is ground-breaking in my experience in lowering any developed DMT tolerance, and further in potentiating the strength levels of these already powerful sublingual HPBCD DMT doses by lowering the body's system-wide MAO defenses for a good 5 hours total during the evening of every 1.5 hour HPBCD DMT re-doses, even when there is no tolerance in play.

I am especially thankfull to Loveall and downwardsfromzero for mentioning to me months ago about the potential inclusion of 25 to 30mg sublingual harmine experimentation beforehand. It just took me a while to finally implement it properly, and especially glad I did finally.

Pic1: 3ml syringe and puppy dog sunglasses storage case for syringes. The syringe's liquid complex becomes re-flowable again after sitting at room temp for a short while, in case it has been pulled from freezer storage.

Pic2: Woman sitting on the Eleusis ruins of ancient Greece where the sacred Kykeon entheogenic beverage was drank in ritual for nearly 2,000 years. In its heyday, up to 3,000 initiates could be received at a time.

pic3: Spirit animals watch on & guide the process as 2-step HPBCD DMT for sublingual use with oral THH Ayahuasca is prepared with meditation, prayer & intentions. Table showing subjective DMT strength from 20 to 80mg.

pic4: 3ml syringe filled with 10 drop (0.5ml) of the HPBCD liquid complex (80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD, use 640mg if using 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, 1:1 molar ratio = 1:7 weight gram ratio if using plain HPBCD from China, 1:8 weight ratio if using more common 2-hydroxy PBCD).



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27389194 - 07/15/21 05:37 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I noticed on the Nexus that you've started taking harmine in the complex sublingually. What are your thoughts about taking THH sublingually as well (possibly at the same time as the harmine?


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: idontknow1]
    #27389942 - 07/16/21 07:49 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)
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idontknow1 said:
Quote:

I noticed on the Nexus that you've started taking harmine in the complex sublingually. What are your thoughts about taking THH sublingually as well (possibly at the same time as the harmine?



Yes idontknow, see update 7/16/2021 below.

The end. Complete summary of this entire paper in 2 pages. Includes everything I've learned in 3 months working with this new discovery:

DMT molecular weight = 188 g/mol
HPBCD molecular weight = 1300 g/mol
2-hydroxy PBCD molecular weight = 1500 g/mol

1:1 molar ratio dmt to HPBCD = use 1:7 gram weight ratio dmt to HPBCD
1:1 molar ratio dmt to 2-hydroxy PBCD = use 1:8 gram weight ratio dmt to 2-hydroxy PBCD

1. put 60mg DMT freebase on a spoon

2. cover with 480mg of the 2-hydroxy PBCD powder (1:1 molar ratio), use 420mg if using plain HPBCD (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin), a kilo is dirt cheap from China, cost of 4 movie tickets), and will last a lifetime for yourself and friends.

3. add 10 drops of near boiling hot water from a coffee mug

4. stir, scrape, and mash it all together for 2 minutes...knead/mash/scrape using end of another spoon...Use your muscles to scrape/mash it all together, just stirring or mixing alone is not good enough. It will form a liquid sticky gel-like complex that can even be sucked up into a 3ml syringe and stored in freezer. 10 drops complex will fill it up to the 0.5ml line. I pre-prepare x 3 of these syringes ahead of time for the evening so I don't have to stop and make one every 1.5 hour while I'm tripping.

5. dry bottom of tongue and top of sublingual mucosa with a tissue.

6. put bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue, or you can shoot a syringe under tongue.

7. Hold in sublingual mucosa under tongue for 15 minutes, it will all dissolve, I've done this enough times to notice it all dissolve in 15 minutes, even 110mg complexed DMT dissolves in 15 minutes sublingually. Spit out any saliva after 15 minutes instead of swallowing it. If it's too uncomfortable before the 15 minutes is over, tilt forward & gently relieve the saliva into a cup while still holding what's under your tongue without releasing it.

There is a mild to moderate sting during the 15 minutes, but I actually like it and it does not bother me at all. If you find this too much, you can always just add the HPBCD DMT from off the spoon to a 1 oz hot water tea which already has 200mg harmine and from 150mg to 300mg THH already dissolved into it, use 100mg of crushed vitamin C to help dissolve the harmals should they be in freebase form. Drink it all at the exact same time just as the Shaman's do for an experience that is many factors stronger than plain freebase DMT or DMT salts, the HPBCD DMT is just like using 30 to 40g of Hawaiian psychotria, it is all encompassing just like the leaf and very strong.

8. 22 minutes after you begin all this, (1/2 the time of an oral dose) you will go from baseline to full throttle, 60mg DMT will take you to a level 3.5 on Shulgin strength scale.

9. So long as you took 150mg to 300mg of tetrahydroharmine 45 minutes earlier, it will double the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it. Update 7/16/2021: Take sublingual 35mg freebase harmine complexed to 210 HPBCD (use 280mg if using 2-hydroxy PBCD) in 10 drops boiling hot water, mixed/crushed then held under tongue for 15 minutes around the same time you take the THH to "super-turbo" charge the strength of all 3 HPBCD DMT sublingual doses for the evening. Just one single harmine dose early on will last for 5 to 6 hours. Alternately, you can take 200mg of oral harmine instead around the same time you take the THH.
------------------------------------------------------------
From 5-19-21: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD sublingual report dosed x 3 times every 1.5 hour

Full Journey trip report:

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary like tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes...

...you feel a mild to moderate sting for around 15 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal.

Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa.

Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD (use 480mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) with 2 minutes stirring, mashing & kneading all of it hard (to force the DMT into the tornado like HPBCD cone) using your muscles on a spoon with 10 to 12 drops very hot water, put bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere...and hold for 15 minutes in the sublingual mucosa, begins to work in 22 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva. As I gently spit out the saliva, I will keep any tiny residual amount still trapped or pressed down under tongue for another 5 minutes usually, but I have noticed most of the time, it all dissolves within 15 minutes.

...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally any time I do this using the sublingual DMT.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.

The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 1.5 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven.

...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away.

I love the "oral 250 to 300mg THH + sublingual 420mg HPBCD complexed to 60mg DMT administration" as there is a complete lack of "queasiness feeling during the journey", perhaps because there is no harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines...I don't know the answer for sure, but I like it.

Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 1.5 hour I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life.
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Update 7/16/2021:

How to turbo-charge the strength of each 3 sublingual HPBCD DMT doses for the evening, beyond level 5 Shulgin strength, in other words "super-strong", simply by using a single dose of harmine early on, lasts a good 5 to 6 hours.

DMT molecular weight = 188 g/mol
Harmine molecular weight = 212 g/mol
HPBCD molecular weight = 1300 g/mol
2-hydroxy PCD molecular weight = 1500 g/mol

1:1 molar ratio harmine to HPBCD = use 1:6 gram weight ratio harmine to HPBCD
1:1 molar ratio harmine to 2-hydroxy PBCD = use 1:7 gram weight ratio harmine to 2-hydroxy PBCD

If you browse the search for "sublingual harmine" there are a number of topics in which psychonauts have used around 35mg sublingual harmine to potentiate DMT to very strong levels. I used this same technique twice already, this week and the week before to potentiate the already strong sublingual HPBCD DMT to the "very strong" category, like walking thru a curtain of visuals when moving from room to room, and everything surrounded by neon colored rainbow auras and colored sparkles, with high-powered tracers, just incredibly visual open-eyed, very euphoric while still relaxing and calm just like with high dose cactus tea. Music so incredible sounding.

Never take the HPBCD harmine and HPBCD DMT sublingually all at the same time, I found out months ago the harmine interferes with the absorption of the HPBCD DMT, and the result is weak trip, always stagger.

This is the only way I will be using the sublingual HPBCD DMT from now on, by taking sublingual 35mg freebase harmine complexed to 210mg HPBCD in 10 drops boiling hot water mixed/mashed all together for 2 minutes on a spoon, then place bottomside of tongue onto spoon, it will all ahdere and held under tongue for 15 minutes, taking this 30 minutes before I take the sublingual 90mg HPBCD DMT, or alternately, one can use 200mg oral freebase harmine instead, with of course taking 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before the sublingual process as always. Only freebase harmine can be complexed to HPBCD.

I'm blown away by the strength of the sublingual HPBCD DMT this way. It's like taking it to the next level strength, beyond the Shulgin level 5 strength. Taking the sublingual 35mg HPBCD harmine just once (one dose early on) is enough to make all three sublingual HPBCD DMT doses for the evening extremely powerful, with each strong dose lasting 1.5 hour...but the HPBCD complexed harmine seems to leave this lasting effect for a good 5 hours. I attribute this to the harmine's power to "lower all the body systems MAO defenses" for an extended 5 hour period of time.

Dr. Narang in the attached paper on page 1 explains how the "sublingual route can be up to 3 to 10 times greater than oral route", I think this is what is making the sublingual 35mg harmine x 6 average (3 + 10 divided by two) seem to have the strength of around 200mg of oral harmine. I highly recommend this approach for really phenomenal journeys.

Always remember, colors will only be neon-colorful, music will only sound bad-ass incredible, beauty enhancement will be "over the top" and actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Important teamwork takes place with THH + DMT. In my experience, THH also doubles the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full 90 minutes out of each HPBCD DMT dose. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, and has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5 hours. You can even re-dose more sublingual HPBCD DMT x 2 more times (every 1.5 hour) at night for a 4.5 hour total strong experience with long afterglow.

You can either take a sublingual 35mg HPBCD harmine dose or take an oral 200mg harmine dose around 1/2 to 1 hour before beginning all this (around the time you drop the oral THH), either way, you are in for a treat.

Not only does harmine increase the strength of the 1st and two subsequent sublingual HPBCD DMT re-doses every 1.5 hour, but it adds a unique signature in this context which I find most magical, a feeling that the protective allies are smiling down on me, a feature I've always experienced in the past with cactus tea just like DM Turner. Also makes one feel as if they are relaxing in a hot tub.

Stay true to yourself. Peace, Love & music.
www.friskyradio.com

Pic1: Neon colored rainbow auras and colored sparkles surround everything.

Pic2: 3ml syringe and puppy dog sunglasses storage case for syringes. The syringe's liquid complex becomes re-flowable again after sitting at room temp for a short while, in case it has been pulled from freezer storage.

Pic3: Woman sitting on the Eleusis ruins of ancient Greece where the sacred Kykeon entheogenic beverage was drank in ritual for nearly 2,000 years. In its heyday, up to 3,000 initiates could be received at a time.

pic4: Spirit animals watch on & guide the process as 2-step HPBCD DMT for sublingual use with oral THH Ayahuasca is prepared with meditation, prayer & intentions. Table showing subjective DMT strength from 20 to 80mg.

pic5: 3ml syringe filled with 10 drop (0.5ml) of the HPBCD liquid complex (80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD, use 640mg if using 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, 1:1 molar ratio = 1:7 weight gram ratio if using plain HPBCD from China, 1:8 weight ratio if using more common 2-hydroxy PBCD).

attached paper 1: sublingual route can be up to 3 to 10 times greater than oral route.

attached paper 2: When vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, native Shuar Indian) are consuming one cup of Ayahausca tea, they are getting 150mg average THH dose, when 2 cups are drank for evening (very common), they are consuming 300mg THH. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115: "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of the dmt.





Edited by tregar (07/17/21 08:22 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27391125 - 07/17/21 09:51 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Summarized this entire paper above in 2 pages with everything I've learned over 3 months, even how to take this 90mg sublingual HPBCD DMT to "the next level strength" above Shulgin level 5 strength, which is how I use it from now on. Potentiates the already strong sublingual HPBCD DMT to the "very strong" category, like walking thru a curtain of visuals when moving from room to room, and everything surrounded by neon colored rainbow auras and colored sparkles...with high-powered tracers, just incredibly visual open-eyed, it hits extremely strong like out of nowhere at the 22 minute point, often sooner, very euphoric while still relaxing and calm just like with high dose cactus tea. Music so incredible sounding, this is of course with taking 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before hand, feels like 700mg plus of super-mescaline, so if you need something to print out to follow, post above would be the one.

Pic: Ancient ruins & 10mg pure THH grabbed with a wet cue-tip used to draw on a paper plate under blacklight, blue glow.



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27395502 - 07/20/21 05:46 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

One thing I should mention is that I don't smoke DMT, so it could be that if anyone is trying to experience this within days of smoking DMT, you are most likely in for an extremely weak journey due to DMT immunity or tolerance.

300mg oral THH 45 minutes before then sublingual 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg plain HPBCD (480mg if using 2-hydroxy PBCD) in 10 drops boiling hot water always gives me a strength level of around 450mg of mescaline or 150 mics of acid (but way more aesthetic and beautiful than acid). It lasts for 1.5 hour.

My dosage is 300mg oral THH 45 minutes before then sublingual 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg plain HPBCD in 10 drops boiling hot water mashed together for 2 minutes...gives me a strength level of 700mg of mescaline for 1.5 hour, then I re-dose x two more times every 1.5 hour with more sublingual 90mg HPBCD DMT.

You said last time you used 244mg of THH so it could be that when you sent it to 300mg THH and 200mg harmine, your body just said "can't do this, too much." Yes, drop the harmine and just use the THH and sublingual HPBCD DMT in the future.

When I added in the 200mg of harmine taken at the same time as the 300mg of THH, I had zero nausea, but I am used to these kind of dosages...then I dosed sublingual 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg plain HPBCD, it was beyond the strength of 700mg of mescaline, when walking to another room, there was a curtain of visuals along the way, alternating neon colors on all the walls, neon colored rainbows and colored sparkles surrounding everything and geometrics with open or closed eyes, insane open eyed beauty, wild tracers & music very incredible sounding, just blown away. I watched movies all night and was in Heaven, powerful euphoria and enjoyment of it all, actresses on screen looked like dazzling, glowing super-colorful cartoon caricatures of themselves, the beauty was breath-taking.

A beginner at this is going to want to use 150mg THH orally and 150mg harmine orally, then slowly advance up to 150-300mg THH and 150-200mg harmine if desired, or just stay at the lower doses. Delete the harmine or include it, it's up to you. I'm at the advanced point where I'm using the harmine to rocket fuel the journeys.

It hit extremely hard out of nowhere at the 22 minute point, went from sober to full throttle in an instant and stayed there 1 and 1/2 hour...I was not expecting this kind of strength, but even did this on a second week, and again same effect... I had no idea the harmine would lower the overall body mao defenses this powerfully for a full 6 hours...honestly, I was blown away, and still trying to figure out how this strength is possible. I kept re-dosing every 1.5 hour and still the same mind-blowing strength and 1.5 hour duration.

It was beyond anything I've experienced when using the HPBCD DMT orally with 200mg harmine and 300mg THH...the sublingual 90mg HPBCD DMT was immensely powerful, I will be satisfied with this for the rest of my life to replace high dose cactus tea at home, which has become very expensive and rare. This is dirt cheap and identical to me to high dose mescaline.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27395684 - 07/20/21 07:55 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I need to read this thread in it's entirety and I'm sure it's been asked, but how does one obtain THH and the HPBCD?  I did a quick search to no avail...but I admittedly feel like a fkn retard trying to wrap my head around it.  I'm highly intrigued, I've never orally dosed DMT but from what I've read about the standard approach with harmalas this seems more straightforward.  And thank you, for putting this all out there.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: seldom seen] * 1
    #27395769 - 07/20/21 09:03 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

My HPBCD came in. I don't have any THH at the moment, only harmine and harmaline. I'll have to go through the conversion( https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29210 ) soon.

I am a big fan of whole rue, maybe I'll give it a try on that before I get around to making some THH.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Abyssinian] * 1
    #27441054 - 08/24/21 01:36 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Update 9.2.2021:

Oral Tetrahydroharmine + sublingual HPBCD DMT journeys, very similar to mescaline:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27453370

(1) On the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH)
(2) 300mg oral THH + 60mg sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dose every 1.5 hour, 5 hours of brightly colored CEV visions: example of the importance of THH to the journey, brightly colored snake visions.
(3) Post #3 on-wards, additional journeys diary

These high-dose profoundly beautiful trips are identical in effects to me as taking from 600 to 700mg of the infinitely beautiful mescaline. :heart: The trips feel like "super-mescaline", but are dirt cheap in comparison to the rare and expensive cactus.

MUSIC SOUNDS INCREDIBLE for hours on end. :heart: And beauty enhancement is way over the top.

----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------


The 2 minute formed HPBCD DMT liquid very bioavailable sublingually under tongue & outperforms DMT salts orally by many factors in personal trials, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861

Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) effects
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
part 10: One way to make tetrahydroharmine
part 11: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask

Continuation:

Update: 8-24-2021:
Oral Tetrahydroharmine + sublingual HPBCD DMT journeys, very similar to mescaline

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97557

These high-dose profoundly beautiful trips are identical in effects to me as taking from 600 to 700mg of the infinitely beautiful mescaline. :love: The trips feel like "super-mescaline", but are dirt cheap in comparison to the rare and expensive cactus.

Here is 2.4 grams brand new DMT extracted from 170g bark for use in some more HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca experiments. See post #19 here: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861 if you need help on how to do this. Always get from 2.4 to 2.5 grams from 170g bark. I really love this orangish/yellowish colored DMT, it is very potent and other-worldly.



Edited by tregar (09/02/21 10:09 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27441931 - 08/25/21 04:58 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

a simple starter kit would be a great christmas gift.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #27441934 - 08/25/21 05:04 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

HPBCD complexed Salvinorin :awecid:


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Asante]
    #27443459 - 08/26/21 07:49 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

:wink:


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27444809 - 08/27/21 08:19 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Those were the days :sun:


RGV if you're still into that plant and have some S-A set aside, if you'd like e few grams of HPBCD in the mail, drop me a secure PM, I literally have a kilo of the stuff for experimentation with cycloastragenol to lengthen my telomeres some (look into that!), and HPBCD is a food ingredient without problematic properties, basically high tech starch.

Only thing I ask in return is that you report your findings, because sublingually improved S-A would show amazing promise, since sublingual is the ideal way to derive benefit from salvia, were it not for the horrid low bioavailability. HPBCD for sure would change that.

You'd literally advange the frontier of human knowledge, that's worth a postage stamp.

Just throwing that out here :P


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Asante]
    #27465652 - 09/12/21 01:56 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27471256 - 09/17/21 03:01 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Should add that once you have these very fresh just extracted and complexed pre-made frozen syringes made, each with 0.6ml (110mg HPBCD DMT) that they can not only be used under the tongue sublingually, but can just as easily be used in an Ayahuasca tea...

What I have done before is squirt all 110mg HPBCD DMT directly into a 1oz black coffee that already has 140mg of harmine freebase dissolved into it with a bit of crushed vit C, so the harmine freebase dissolves. YES! I have used as little as 140mg harmine freebase to activate the dmt, just as Jonathan Ott found out works (1.5mg/kg threshold activating dose). He found 120mg worked just fine for him, he weighs 175lbs (80kg), I weigh 200lbs (90kg).

I take a capsule of from 150mg to 300mg THH orally around the same time. You can re-dose again later with sublingual HPBCD DMT under the tongue every 1.5 hour, the oral harmine continues to work for 5 hours, to slow down the deamination or oxidation of the DMT in the mitochondria in the brain. I have tripped very hard all evening long (4.5 hours) this way.

There are options is all I'm saying: sublingual or oral.
--------------------------------------------------------
The end summary. Bon Voyage.

pic5: 2.2g fresh new extracted DMT from 170g bark & 20 x 3ml syringes each getting ready to be loaded with 0.6ml = 110mg HPBCD DMT
pic6: 20 syringes each holding 110mg HPBCD DMT for sublingual or oral use, storage in freezer will keep potent indefinitely. I like to use 3 for the evening, 300mg oral THH 45 minutes before, then pull out one syringe holding 110mg HPBCD DMT original dose, squirt under tongue and hold for 15 minutes, and re-dose every 1.5 hour, for 3 total doses = 4.5 hour of very strong effects, identical to 500 to 700mg long lasting mescaline.
pic7: store 20 syringes in freezer in a protein shaker bottle, "syringe tip caps", 1000 for dirt cheap, go on the end to seal syringe, so no leak.

Or can be used by taking from 150mg to 300mg THH in a capsule, then take an Ayahuasca tea made with 1oz hot coffee holding from 140 to 180mg harmine freebase with a bit of vitamin C added to help the harmine absorb should it be in freebase form, then squirt the syringe dosage into the hot 1oz coffee, mix and drink all at the exact same time, just as the Shaman's do. The oral HPBCD DMT is very potent, much stronger than normal DMT freebase or salts used orally, and just as strong as actual 30 to 40g Hawaiian psychotria.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
How to:

110mg fresh just extracted DMT is put onto a spoon, covered with (1:7g ratio to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio) 770mg plain HPBCD, if using instead the 2-HPBCD, then use a 1:8g weight ratio or 880mg 2-HPBCD in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

Then 12 drops of near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug is added, mix, mash & scrape it all back and forth on the spoon, using the end of another spoon really hard using your muscles for 2 minutes, then suck up the 0.6ml (12 drop complex) into a 3ml syringe for storage in a freezer, keeps the fresh potency forever, the DMT protected within the HPBCD cavity, and frozen solid, never oxidizes this way, stays as fresh as the day you extract it.

So on the day I extract 2.5g from 170g bark, I go ahead and right after scraping it all up, and allowing it to dry, pre-prepare many individual syringes, and freeze all of them, each with a 0.6ml 110mg HPBCD DMT dose.

If you take a look at the 3ml syringe picture, notice 12 drops fills it up to 6th click mark.

tic mark 1 = 2 drops = 18.3mg HPBCD DMT (0.1ml)
tic mark 2 = 4 drops = 36.3mg HPBCD DMT (0.2ml)
tic mark 3 = 6 drops = 54.9mg HPBCD DMT (0.3ml)
tic mark 4 = 8 drops = 73.2mg HPBCD DMT (0.4ml)
tic mark 5 = 10 drops = 91.5mg HPBCD DMT (0.5ml)
tic mark 6 = 12 drops = 110mg HPBCD DMT (0.6ml)

This is how I measure my dosage out for sublingual or oral Ayahuasca use, once I pull the syringe from the freezer, it will quickly defrost at room temp. You can either shoot the dose directly under your tongue, or measure out the dose onto a spoon, then place the bottom side of your tongue onto the spoon, and it will all adhere. Then simply hold dose under tongue, and press it into the sublingual mucosa, it will all dissolve in 15 minutes or less.

1st paper: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
2nd paper: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97557&p=1

Stay true to yourself. Love, Peace & Music
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Edited by tregar (09/22/21 04:54 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27472913 - 09/18/21 11:35 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)
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THH + DMT is divine, the main course.

From much experience, can indeed say that THH is very euphoric and creates open-eyed visual "over the top visual beauty enhancement". Hours of closed eye teaching visions when I reach 300mg of pure THH. Note the 300mg dosage entry for THH or tetrahydroharmine in TIHKAL was not done by Dr. Shulgin but by an inexperienced person who equated it to 100mg harmaline. Tetrahydroharmine is nothing like harmaline, it is not sedating or nauseating or even dizzying, but rather stimulating, euphoric, very mescaline-like with diamondlike open eyed beauty enhancement, music enhancement, closed eye way beyond 4k teaching visions for hours on end, it's in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine.

THH has 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours. When 150mg to 200mg THH is combined with DMT either sublingually or in an Ayahuasca tea with from 140 to 180mg harmine fb, the effects are absolutely stunning, very much identical to high dose mescaline, mescaline like euphoria for hours on end, deep head space, powerful music enhancement, powerful spiritual insights and visions, etc.

THH is an isomer of a hormonal-like substance found in the brain already, and is responsible for the teaching visions and Ayahuasca's telepathic or telepathine properties. I believe it is the "main course" of the Ayahuasca session, it is also able to bring out the "essence" of other plants, and combines extremely well with all sorts of psychedelics to bring out there "essence".

Historical note: one month ago combined 300mg of THH or tetrahydroharmine with 250mcg of acid paper that had been soaked in 1 shot of cold sherry wine for 3 hours in the fridge with hand stirring once an hour in the fridge, to help theoretically or hypothetically convert the LSD to the more colorful & visual and head-space gentle ALD-52 by adduction of the acetaldehyde from the sherry wine to the NH bottom indole position on the LSD (don't try this at home unless you are really advanced, and sure you have very pure THH) and had closed eye bright colored teaching visions all the way from 8pm till midnight.

Much more powerful than LSD visions alone, these were brightly colored Ayahuasca visions. One of the sequence of visions were of a variety of stone carvings with very elaborate artwork and a beautiful woman who stretched out her hand to me to show me magic.

I would need a tape recorder going as I lie in bed for hours to talk into in order to record the hundreds of non-stop animated and static colored visions.

Then at midnight took another 100mg of THH, it brought the visions all back until 4am in the morning! It was almost too much, non-stop hundreds of Ayahuasca visions for hours and hours, I was completely blown away, reminds me of the time I took 300mg THH combined with 60mg sublingual HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hour and had visions from midnight all the way till 5am in the morning also. I would lie in bed watching the colored visions for hours on end listening to music on my headphones, which sounded as if I had taken a high dose cactus tea, very remarkably enhanced, just Heavenly.

The combo of 300mg THH + LSD also makes the beauty & aesthetic enhancement way stronger than LSD alone, and the music sounds much better than LSD alone, it feels very much like when you combine mescaline with LSD, as THH is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline. Very beautiful combination.

Please note: all beginners only use around 150mg to 200mg THH which is what is found average in 1 cup of Ayahuasca tea, only advanced members of the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian and people like myself drink 2 cups of Ayahausca tea for the evening, which then contains around 300mg THH average.

P.S. Will be able to determine in future whether coffee filters or a cotton ball stuffed into a funnel will work in place of normally used vacuum pump with #101 filtration disc to filter out the remaining floating zinc dust (only around 10% left floating) after the spun solution sits for 1 hour as 90% of the zinc dust falls to very bottom, so solution above it can be decanted off. This would make it very cost efficient and easy for anyone to convert harmaline to THH without all the fancy equipment (buchner filtration flask and cup/filtration paper, vacuum pump).

Harmaline to THH in 1.5 hour, way a chemist does it, see post #12: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861

2nd paper: Oral Tetrahydroharmine + sublingual HPBCD DMT journeys, very similar to mescaline:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97557&p=1

--------------------------------------------------------

Update: Now we know why polysaccharides like those in aloe vera leaf and gel or the man-made polysaccharides like HPBCD increase the oral and sublingual absorption of DMT freebase by many factors:

Downwardsfromzero said a while back:
Quote:

This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here - thanks for posting.




It just so turns out that you were absolutely right! Cyclodextrins such as HPBCD (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin) are naturally occurring polysaccharides obtained through the enzymatic degradation of starch.

This explains how when HPBCD is complexed to freebase DMT, it is able to not only make it water soluble, but also make it absorb MANY FACTORS BETTER orally than normal DMT freebase or DMT salts.

This is why in my experience, the Ayahuasca tea made with HPBCD DMT is many factors stronger than normal DMT, easy to reach +5 Shulgin strength levels, just like the Hawaiian psychotria made Ayahuasca tea, which in all likely hood may also contain polysaccharides just like aloe vera leaf which explains why the Hawaiian psychotria leaf contained DMT easily reaches +5 Shulgin strength: all encompassing and super-strong. I've taken Hawaiian psychotria over 70 times in Ayahuasca made Caapi tea, and it's always been super potent, much more potent than freebase used DMT or salts in my experience. A world of difference, no comparison. The HPBCD DMT is the same, super potent just like the Hawaiian leaf.

Example from the scientific literature: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.

Guess what else also contains polysaccharides: Aloe vera gel and leaf. Aloe vera gel caused a 3.7 fold increase in the bioavailability of vitamin C in comparison to control (vitamin C administered in water).

The polysaccharide fraction from dehydrated Aloe vera gel (datonmax 700) material could enhance the transport of many drugs across the intestinal rat tissue many factors over, and was statistically significant compared to control.

Aloe vera leaf and gel, due to the polysaccharides open tight junctions and consequently enhance paracellular transport of hydrophilic molecules.

Polysaccharides are the component of aloe vera gel and leaf that is the biologically active component responsible for the greatly increased modulation of drug pharmacokinetics and absorption -- this is concentrated in the polysaccharide components of the aloe vera gel and material.

The paper also shows that Aloe vera has also been shown to significantly enhance the sublingual and buccal permeability of drugs. HPBCD complexed freebase DMT does the same thing, it not only makes the DMT water soluble until it crosses the sublingual membrane, where it is released into the bloodstream as the potent freebase, where it reaches the brain intact in my experience, very potent indeed...

...but HPBCD, being a polysaccharide just like aloe vera gel or leaf, greatly enhances the penetration of the DMT thru the sublingual mucosa under the tongue due to it's potent disruption capabilities of the epithelium layer (only 100 to 200um thick), also discussed in the attached paper.

All of this is covered in the attached paper "Drug Bioavailability Enhancing Agents of Natural Origin (Bioenhancers) that Modulate Drug Membrane Permeation and Pre-Systemic Metabolism" by Bianca Peterson, Morné Weyers , Jan H. Steenekamp, Johan D. Steyn, Chrisna Gouws and Josias H. Hamman.

Last pic: The absorption of drugs through the sublingual mucosa route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route according to Dr. Narang.



Edited by tregar (09/18/21 06:39 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27477807 - 09/22/21 06:02 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quick note On safety:

Yes, I have read many studies, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Cyclodextrin has been linked to some studies in mice at very high doses of 8000 mg/kg s.c. We are not using doses anywhere near that here. I have used HPBCD complexed to pro-hormones for years when pro-hormones were legal and never had any side effects at low level like we are using. Patrick Arnold is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM) and sold them for nearly 10 years thru his company ERGOPHARM, never any complaints of hearing loss. See part 5 of my paper on his story and bloodwork results. I've used the stuff over 44 times now if you include the number of times I've re-dosed in an evening = 3 total doses for an evening. Had my hearing checked earlier this month as I wanted to see myself if any problems with the low doses I have been using, no different than years ago. If you are concerned, then simply don't use it. Proceed with caution. Use aloe vera gel or leaf instead, or even chitosan, many alternatives, see paper above: File Attachment(s): "Pharmaceutics drug bioavailability enhancing agents", example: Aloe vera gel caused a 3.7 fold increase in the bioavailability of vitamin C in comparison to control (vitamin C administered in water).

2-Hydroxypropyl-β-Cyclodextrin Raises Hearing Threshold in Normal Cats and in Cats With Niemann-Pick Type C Disease

https://www.nature.com/articles/pr2010130

Cats with NPC disease cats showed no increase in hearing threshold after weekly administration of 1000 mg/kg HPβCD (group 7; n = 5) compared with untreated affected cats [group 6; n = 8]. Both cats treated with weekly 4000 mg/kg (group 8; n = 2) showed an increase in hearing threshold and cats treated with weekly 8000 mg/kg (group 9; n = 5) had a statistically significant (p < 0.05) increase in threshold. No waveforms were evoked at the maximum stimulus intensity of 125 dB from two cats treated with every other week intrathecal HPBCD (group 10).

Pic: Cats with NPC disease cats showed no increase in hearing threshold after weekly administration of 1000 mg/kg HPβCD (group 7; n = 5) compared with untreated affected cats [group 6; n = 8].



Edited by tregar (09/22/21 06:03 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27477963 - 09/22/21 08:47 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

GordoTEK said:
"HPBCD is generally considered safe to eat because it gets destroyed in the gut before it can get into your bloodstream."

This is the same as I have read in the article you linked, which I have read twice now. Based on this orally safe profile, I will only use HPBCD complexed DMT orally from now on mixed into a 1oz hot coffee with from 140 to 180mg harmine fb, a bit of crushed vit C to help the freebase harmine absorb, and a capsule of from 150mg to 300mg THH taken orally at same time. I have done this x 4 times now over a period of 5 months using from 70mg to 110mg HPBCD DMT with impressive results.

As little as 1.5mg/kg harmine fb can be used as a threshold dose to orally activate DMT, just as Jonathan Ott found worked just fine, he weights 175lbs (80kg), he found 120mg harmine fb to work, I weigh 200lbs (90kg), I found 140mg harmine fb to work. Up this amount to 160mg harmine fb for an 80kg individual, or 180mg for a 90kg individual for very strong activation. 

Re-dosing can be even be done 1 hour to 1.5 hour later after feeling effects as half life of harmine is from 1 to 3 hours, using only 1/2 the dose of harmine combined with another dose of HPBCD DMT. I have found this to work very well.

Just as aloe vera gel has been shown to increase the oral bioavailability of vitamin C administered in water x 3.7 fold, HPBCD has been shown to improve oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation poorly absored fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. Both aloe vera gel and HPBCD are able to increase the absorption of many poorly absored drugs many factors over.

I have no problem using the HPBCD DMT orally, as I've found it many factors stronger and all-encompassing than normal poorly absorbed DMT freebase or salts used orally (never been able to get over +3 Shulgin level mild effects in over a dozen trials using from 70 to 120mg), in fact, the HPBCD DMT is just as potent and super-strong as using actual 30 to 40g Hawaiian psychotria, easy to achieve +5 Shulgin level strength.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27481612 - 09/25/21 09:29 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I prefer using the harmine sublingually myself, I complex 30mg to 180mg HPBCD in 3 drops hot water, (1:6g ratio to keep at 1:1 molar ratio) hold under tongue, there is zero taste thanks to the HPBCD masking the nasty harmine freebase taste. it all dissolves in only 5 minutes or so as it is such a low dose, and the HPBCD helps the fb harmine to absorb way better in my experience. I sometimes take this around 10 minutes before I take my sublingual 110mg HPBCD DMT, I way prefer this to oral harmine.

Oral harmine sketches me out, everytime I take it, I repeat to myself "I just don't like the feeling", and can't wait for it to end. I just don't like it. I won't use it anymore, unless I take a 30mg dose sublingually, this is way more pleasant to me and shorter lasting, it acts more as a facilitator of the dmt this way than a participant.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
For Reference: How to:

Important Reference notes:

HPBCD = Hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
2-HPBCD = 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin

Note: Molecular weight of harmine = 212g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore use a 1:6g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

Note: Molecular weight of DMT = 188g/mol, plain HPBCD molecular weight = 1300g/mol, therefore, use a 1:7g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio. 2-HPBCD = 1500g/mol, therefore use a 1:8g weight ratio in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D:
Quote:

Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.




Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:
Quote:

You can't compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual harmine is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.




One quick note: I would recommend if you take 25mg sublingual HPBCD harmine, to take it 10 to 15 minutes before beginning the evening of sublingual HPBCD DMT dosing, of course taking from 150mg to 300mg pure thh orally 45 minutes before all this.

I have found the HPBCD DMT absorbs much better on it's own without any sublingual harmine in the mix at the same time, so keep them separate is all I'm saying.

Dr. Narang and Sharma mention in their 2010 sublingual paper (attached on post #1) that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral.

Wikipedia on sublingual administration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublingual_administration
Quote:

"many drugs are much more potent taken sublingually"

"this route translates the chemical directly to the brain, where most psychoactives act."




110mg fresh just extracted DMT is put onto a spoon, covered with (1:7g ratio to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio) 770mg plain HPBCD, if using instead the 2-HPBCD, then use a 1:8g weight ratio or 880mg 2-HPBCD in order to keep a 1:1 molar ratio.

Then 12 drops of near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug or pyrex pot on a hotplate is added, mix, mash & scrape it all back and forth on the spoon, using the end of another spoon really hard using your muscles for 2 minutes, then suck up the 0.6ml (12 drop complex) into a 3ml syringe for storage in a freezer, keeps the fresh potency forever, the DMT protected within the HPBCD cavity, and frozen solid, never oxidizes this way, stays as fresh as the day you extract it.

So on the day I extract 2.5g from 170g bark, I go ahead and right after scraping it all up, and allowing it to dry, pre-prepare many individual syringes, and freeze all of them, each with a 0.6ml 110mg HPBCD DMT dose.

If you take a look at the 3ml syringe picture in above post, notice 12 drops fills it up to 6th click mark.

tic mark 1 = 2 drops = 18.3mg HPBCD DMT (0.1ml)
tic mark 2 = 4 drops = 36.3mg HPBCD DMT (0.2ml)
tic mark 3 = 6 drops = 54.9mg HPBCD DMT (0.3ml)
tic mark 4 = 8 drops = 73.2mg HPBCD DMT (0.4ml)
tic mark 5 = 10 drops = 91.5mg HPBCD DMT (0.5ml)
tic mark 6 = 12 drops = 110mg HPBCD DMT (0.6ml)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Experience #45: 9.24.2021 Friday night Journey.

300mg oral THH, 30mg sublingual HPBCD harmine, 110mg sublingual HPBCD DMT

Harmine sketches me out, I just don't like it unless say 30mg is used sublingually, but not orally.

6pm: 1st I took 300mg +R-ALA, 1g vit C, and vitamin E, three potent antioxidants I always take anytime I take the sublingual HPBCD DMT. These anti-oxidants prevent any unknown oxidative stress on the body, and drink plenty of lukewarm water.

6pm: took oral 300mg pure THH in a capsule

6:30pm took 30mg harmine fb complexed to 180mg plain HPBCD in 3 drops boiling hot water, mixed and mashed for 2 minutes, placed under tongue, it all dissolved in around 5 minutes, no taste as the HPBCD masked the nasty taste of the fb harmine.

6:40pm So I went back to my preferred method of just taking oral 300mg pure THH in a capsule 45 minutes before I took 110mg HPBCD DMT under tongue (3ml syringe full of 0.6ml 110mg DMT complexed to 770mg plain HPBCD in 12 drops very hot water), and held for 15 minutes, it all dissolved...had an amazing time, this always feels just like high dose mescaline to me, yesterday felt like around 500mg mescaline.

I will take one of my 110mg HPBCD DMT syringes out of protein shaker bottle in freezer, it has a locking syringe tip to prevent leakage, dunk the syringe into a mug of hot water for 1 minute, it all defrosts and becomes flowing homogenous liquid again, and then place warm liquid under tongue.

I made 20 of these syringes each with 110mg HPBCD DMT last time 2.2 grams dmt was extracted from 170g bark.

First I watched a movie that had amazing beach scenery and beautiful actresses, the beauty enhancement was way over the top, deep head space, powerful spiritual insights. Visual acuity very strong, the actresses on screen looked again like glowing, dazzling, super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves, walls filled again with gentle neon colors, high powered open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes when I shifted my gaze quickly or moved my hands in mid-air, CEV's of slow moving geometrics.

In between watching the movie I closed my eyes and watched gentle colored geometrics spin and dance for an hour, beautiful blue and pink colors, the geometrics would constantly morph into other colors, just amazing.

Then 1.5 hour later, I took another dose of 110mg HPBCD DMT under tongue, again the geometrics came back, due to the THH and DMT combo, the geometrics then went away and lead to a different phase: then I saw for a good 2 hours while laying in bed fantastic realistic scenery...static and animated imagery: fantastic grand archaic architecture, Mayan and Aztec pyramids, and the steps leading up to them, landscapes I traveled down leading to a city in the Jungle, hundreds of amazingly beautiful dream-like imagery but way beyond 4k, the detail way beyond anything an artist could draw, had a fantastic time. Love

I wore headphones the whole time and listened to music, which again sounded remarkably enhanced, just like high dose cactus tea, same powerful music enhancement.

Pic: with closed eyes, the step pyramids of Chichen Itza were seen, but seen brand new as if newly created.



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27493235 - 10/05/21 06:09 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Note on safety: I am not worried about using HPBCD sublingually, as noted earlier we are using doses that are very similar to what chemist Patrick Arnold sold for 10 years as cyclodiol and cyclonordiol by his sports supplement company: Ergopharm. He made millions selling his very effective sublingual HPBCD pro-hormone supplements until they were made illegal 9 years later, never any complaints of hearing loss. I used his sublingual HPBCD pro-hormone supplements for many years.

I had my hearing checked after using this stuff 44 times (1 original dose + 2 re-doses each evening) after 6 months of use and still my hearing was excellent. We are using very, very low doses: 770mg HPBCD compared to 4000 to 8000mg/kg in cats and mice, yes, that is 4000 to 8000 mg per kilogram injections, again we are not using anywhere near the insane mega-doses like they were using to treat Niemann–Pick disease in the studies.

Niemann-Pick disease type C (NPC) is a rare progressive genetic disorder characterized by an inability of the body to transport cholesterol and other fatty substances (lipids) inside of cells. This leads to the abnormal accumulation of these substances within various tissues of the body, including brain tissue. The accumulation of these substances damages the affected areas.

I also had a full complete labwork done, and it was excellent as well, liver and kidney functions completely normal. Doctor was very happy, all in the green, no red.

I also prefer the sublingual route, as I find it many times stronger than oral, it's much more potent than taken orally, and it comes on in only half the time of an oral dose (22 minutes instead of 45 minutes) yet it still lasts as long as an oral dose: 90 minutes. It's easy to achieve +5 Shulgin level strength using the powerful sublingual HPBCD DMT doses.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27493236 - 10/05/21 06:10 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

see post #1, condensed.



Edited by tregar (01/14/22 09:19 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27498382 - 10/09/21 09:12 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

see post #1, condensed.


Edited by tregar (01/01/22 09:35 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27501293 - 10/11/21 08:32 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Out of curiosity, what would happen if you just use TTH + HBPCD DMT and no MAOI such as Harmala/Harmaline?

My MAOI still has not arrived and I still need to quit Kratom before I can safely take a MAOI.

Will sublingual HBCDP DMT work on it's own? I have 2-HBDCDP and could complex it with DMT at a 1:8 ratio if I knew it would work without it.


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Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: TrancedOutBrah]
    #27501303 - 10/11/21 08:42 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TrancedOutBrah said:
I still need to quit Kratom before I can safely take a MAOI.





Why? Are they counter-indicated?


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #27501832 - 10/12/21 10:35 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
Quote:

TrancedOutBrah said:
I still need to quit Kratom before I can safely take a MAOI.





Why? Are they counter-indicated?




I've read a lot of conflicting reports and at least 2 that reported in headaches. There are other alkaloids that are stimulating in nature that effect serotonin and dopamine.

I'd much rather side with a err of caution than to do something I can't un-do.

Serotonin syndrome is no joke.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: TrancedOutBrah]
    #27501965 - 10/12/21 12:55 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Good to know.

Semi unrelated, but I've taken kratom and shrooms together no problem.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #27502089 - 10/12/21 02:09 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

It's fine 100% fine to mix with normal psychedelics.

The only concern is with mixing MAOI with Kratom.

I've mixed Kratom with 2cb, Mushrooms, LSD, MDMA, 4-ho-met. All of which was incredibly amazing to mix with.

Happy trippin.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: TrancedOutBrah] * 1
    #27512509 - 10/21/21 02:27 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

\Note: THH is NOT an MAOI, she is a psychedelic SRI or serotonin reuptake inhibitor just like the following psychedelic serotonin reuptake inhibitors: mescaline, LSD, shrooms, ibogaine.

Make sure your THH is pure and not contaminated with unconverted harmaline (which is a RIMA/maoi). Dab some THH on a wet cue tip, rub on paper plate, hold under blacklight, does it glow blue, if so you have THH, if any green glow, you have harmaline in it, keep in mind harmine also glows blue too thought.



Edited by tregar (01/01/22 09:35 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27602212 - 01/01/22 09:27 AM (2 years, 26 days ago)

Updated for 1-1-2022, see post #1, includes everything with pics.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27603541 - 01/02/22 10:06 AM (2 years, 25 days ago)
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attached paper on sublingual 3 to 10 times stronger


Edited by tregar (01/05/22 07:35 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27606768 - 01/04/22 01:25 PM (2 years, 23 days ago)
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attached paper on HPBCD


Edited by tregar (01/05/22 07:34 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27607694 - 01/05/22 07:34 AM (2 years, 22 days ago)

Complete instructions and pictures all updated for 1-1-2022 on sublingual HPBCD DMT & summary of over 44 sublingual experiences in a year's time, these experiences all much stronger than oral DMT by many factors. Zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety or un-easy feelings, deep head space, highly visual, strong open eyed and CEV's of spinning & dancing geometrics & real Ayahuasca visions, incredible music enhancement, way over the top open eyed beauty, neon colorful & highly euphoric, see trip reports at bottom...will continue to use for the rest of my life, highly recommend: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861

My procedure:
1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for DMT doses of 90mg or below, use 12 drops of boiling hot water to mix DMT doses over 90mg (such as 100 to 120mg). 60mg DMT = +3 Shulgin level strength, 90 to 120mg = +5 Shulgin level life changing strength.
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of a spoon for 2 minutes, scrape & mix everything back and forth hard using your muscles. This is how scientist pre-pare these complexes by kneading.
6) Hold a lighter under the spoon to heat up spoon for around 20 seconds or so, until the solution just starts to boil, then pull flame away, so that complete dissolution or dissolving takes place, after heating up, mix the contents a little bit more before using, see pics.
7) Take 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 45 minutes before. Place 35mg of freebase harmine under your tongue. Then place bottom of your tongue onto HPBCD complexed DMT spoon, the HPBCD DMT glob will all adhere as HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes. Be sure to take the 35mg harmine and HPBCD DMT under tongue all at the exact same time in order to activate the DMT strongly.

Hold under tongue for 10 to 12 or 15 minutes depending on dosage, press down with bottom of tongue the whole time to trap sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa. Be sure to use bottom end of tongue to lick any off spoon that is left behind, you want to get it all.

At end of 15 minutes, spit out any saliva into a cup instead of swallowing. Gently relieve any saliva during the 15 minute period as comfort dictates by leaning your head forward and spitting into a cup, but keep your tongue pressed down any time you relieve saliva. There is a mild to moderate sting felt but it's so worth enduring for the effects in 22 minutes. The sting does not bother me at all. The tongue is completely fine afterwards (no burn), and it's as if nothing happened the next day.











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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27611571 - 01/08/22 11:21 AM (2 years, 19 days ago)
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"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017:, under "Kinetics":
Quote:

Cyclodextrins at high doses can increase drug permeability by direct action on mucosal membranes and enhance drug absorption and/or bioavailability. These effects are possibly caused by solubilisation of membrane lipids through inclusion complexation with cyclodextrins and the ability of cyclodextrins to cause perturbation of membrane integrity. However, unlike detergents, cyclodextrins solubilize membrane components without entering into the membrane, therefore the perturbing effects of cyclodextrins are mild and reversible [7].Cyclodextrins are absorbed poorly via mucosal membranes.



HPBCD enhances the drug permeability of guest complexed drug, but the cyclodextrins themselves are poorly absorbed via the sublingual mucosa.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: page 5 of 16 under "Oral products, Kinetics":
Quote:

The oral bioavailability of cyclodextrins is very low in adult animals and humans (0.1–3%), except for RM-β-CD, which has a bioavailability of 12% in rats. Because of their bulky and hydrophilic nature only insignificant amounts of cyclodextrins are absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract by passive diffusion [33, 27].



This pharmacology has been used to potentiate these freebase drugs ORALLY as well -- in my experience, this results in an Ayahuasca experience that is strong in potency. Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.

I've used HPBCD complexed DMT orally three times stirred into a 1oz hot water tea (it dissolves instantly) with 150 to 300mg THH + 160 to 200mg harmine with a bit of citric acid to help the harmalas dissolve, and it's also way more potent than normal DMT freebase or salts used orally, very reminiscent of my over 70 Hawaiian psychotria brewed leaf teas, very strong & all encompassing. Trip report on page 2, post #25.

But I vastly prefer the oral 150 to 300mg THH + sublingual Ayahuasca (35mg sublingual harmine fb + 60 to 100mg sublingual HPBCD DMT all taken at exact same time under tongue), many times stronger than oral DMT, and zero dizziness or un-easy feelings for me due to only 35mg harmine being used. Highly recommend for sensitive individuals like myself. Very strong & feels great all evening like mescaline, heavenly.


Edited by tregar (01/08/22 01:09 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27618294 - 01/14/22 09:18 AM (2 years, 13 days ago)

For storage, I remove the plunger from a 3ml syringe (100 in a box for dirt cheap on-line) and backfill or pour the contents of the HPBCD complexed DMT spoon down the syringe for storage in a freezer long-term, to defrost, pull plunger out of syringe again (so pressure does not build up) and place syringe in a mug of hot water, contents will flow easily again. Shoot contents under tongue when cools down. Syringe tips lock onto the end of the syringe to prevent spillage or loss of contents. This is how I pre-pare the 2 additional doses for use at each 1.5 hour point for the evening and store at room temp. I like to trip strongly for 4.5 hours, so 3 doses total...but the afterglow continues way beyond this.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: Page 11 of 16:
Quote:

According to the data in section 2 one can conclude that below 20 mg/kg/day no serious adverse effects are to be expected for all routes of administration and no statement is deemed necessary.

Above 20 mg/kg/day, cyclodextrins may show some activity, and because there are insufficient safety data in children below two years old, it is advisable to inform about the quantity of cyclodextrin in the product and that for use in children below two years old, a doctor’s recommendation is needed.

Above 200 mg/kg/day cyclodextrins may theoretically cause problems in the digestive system when given orally, and cause mild renal toxicity when given parenteral, which information can be given. Depending on the amount, cyclodextrins may influence the Cyclodextrins used as excipients permeability of tissues and therefore the bioavailability of active substances given topically (nasal, rectal, dermal, ocular).



This is exactly the way I use the HPBCD sublingually, when I complex 90mg DMT to (x7) or 630mg of HPBCD, and I re-dose two more times every 1.5 hour, I am using 1890mg of HPBCD for the evening. I weigh 95kg, so I am using less than 20mg/kg/day or less than 1900mg per day. This always gives me a 4.5 hour long +5 Shulgin level strength experience with super-long afterglow. Very similar to 600mg of mescaline.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read lots of questions concerning tetrahydroharmine or THH, so will add this in closing:

As a long time chemist, have years of experience with home-made pure THH, it does not convert back to harmaline, and I've had THH remain 100% stable for many years in a closet, that still glowed pale blue under blacklight, and worked just as well as the day it was made.

See post #12 of this thread for how to make it yourself with pictures in 1.5 hour using harmaline which you can often find on-line if don't want to start from scratch. All you need is a cheap stir mantel from *mazon, vinegar, 10% janitorial ammonia from hardware store, zinc dust, cotton ball in a funnel. I always encourage everyone to learn chemistry.

The liftmode THH paperwork indicates it is made in China, if it truly is over 99% pure, then by all means it should only glow pale blue. Any green in the glow means it has un-converted harmaline, how much is anyone's guess. Harmaline is sedating and causes nausea and dizziness at high doses.

pic 1: 300mg of pure THH for oral use taken 45 minutes before, not shown: 35mg of freebase harmine for sublingual use taken at exact same time under tongue as the 0.5ml (10 drop) 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg HPBCD stored in a 3ml syringe if desired.

Pic 2: Pure tetrahydroharmine glows pale blue under blacklight like LSD or psilocin, harmaline reduces to tetrahydroharmine by gaining a hydrogen atom. Tetrahydroharmine is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine, remarkable way beyond 4k monochrome (blue or green for me) closed eye teaching visions at 300mg for hours. No sedation, pleasant stimulation. Adding even small amounts of sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT adds color to the visions.





Edited by tregar (01/15/22 07:18 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27620726 - 01/16/22 08:23 AM (2 years, 11 days ago)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In closing, complete TEK & summary of over a year of Ayahuasca experiences, 44 sublingual (counts 2 re-doses every 1.5 hour for 4.5 hour total strong journey) & 3 oral.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Physics envy said:
Quote:

I tried the sublingual 2HPBCD / DMT combination last night (60mg n,n + 480mg 2HPBCD), along with 175mg oral Liftmode brand 'THH' and 25mg sublingual harmine. (I'm 150lbs, so I dropped the harmine dosage from Ava's recommended 35mg.)

I was very sensitive to the burn - it was almost intolerable and I will not be retrying this ROA. And it is still annoying the next day under my tongue.

I did it twice last night as the first time it did not work as I probably did not complex the mixture properly and also did not get the mixture off the spoon very well. So after an hour, I mixed a second batch, using the same amounts of 2HPBCD, dmt, and harmine. (I did not mix the harmine in, just placed it under my tongue for a minute before inserting the complexed mixture.)

The second batch of dmt DID work Very happy After about 10 minutes it started to come on, and it quickly became very strong with a few-minute rush, similar to a decent vaped dose.

However, it wore off about 10-15 minutes after it started.

I did not notice anything extra from the alleged THH. And I did not notice any lengthening of the experience from either the harmine nor the THH.

Before giving up on this liftmode THH, I'll try it again and up the dose to closer to 300mg in hopes that there is at least *some* THH in there. And I will use the oral method of complexing the dmt then melting it into hot water to drink along with the THH and maybe ~170mg harmine. Alternatively, I may try complexing the harmine and using it sublingually, upping the dose to 35mg.




Thanks for your report Physics envy. Congrats on getting it to work for 10 to 15 minutes. Up your harmine dose. Mine always lasts 90 minutes with very strong activity, this could be to me using 300mg home-made pure THH orally, as it does a fine job of preventing the inactivation of the DMT by MAO localized in the mitchondria of the cells of the brain.

I also use 35mg sublingual harmine fb (for my weight of 95kg) at exact same time under tongue as the sublingual HPBCD DMT, same power as x6 or 210mg oral harmine, both together give 90 minutes of +5 Shulgin level strength with 90mg of DMT, re-dosing 2 more times every 1.5 hour, 4.5 hour journey: very similar to 600mg mescaline.

But 60mg of DMT is plenty for a +3 Shulgin level strength trip with 2 re-doses every 1.5 hour, see the 5 hour CEV brightly colored Ayahuasca visions trip report below. Most meaningful teaching & intense visionary experience of my life, and I've taken Ayahuasca over 70 times, high dose cactus tea over 200 times, and acid nearly as much.

How this works: the Hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin molecule (HPBCD) has an inner hydrophobic cavity (repels water) which attracts & traps freebase molecules like DMT freebase inside it's tornado shaped cone. The outer cavity is hydrophilic (likes water) and thus makes the DMT molecule water-soluble.

HPBCD, being a potent polysaccharide derived from the enzymatic degradation of starch, improves the penetration of the DMT freebase many factors over (studies show x 4 factors or 400%) into the sublingual mucosa under the tongue. HPBCD then releases the DMT as the potent freebase into the bloodstream once it crosses the sublingual mucosa, these reasons explain its potency.

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work, and there is no penetration enhancement unless HPBCD is used to complex DMT in the freebase form only. The cyclodextrins have toroidal shapes, with the larger and the smaller openings of the toroid exposing to the solvent secondary and primary hydroxyl groups respectively.

You can order HPBCD from China no matter where you live as it is legal, and if you google "Europe + HPBCD" there are a couple places that sell it as well. It is very common in the USA from *mazon or auction sites.

Complete instructions and pictures all updated for sublingual HPBCD DMT & summary of over 44 sublingual experiences in a year's time, these experiences all much stronger than oral DMT by many factors. Zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety or un-easy feelings, deep head space, highly visual, strong open eyed and CEV's of spinning & dancing geometrics & real Ayahuasca visions, incredible music enhancement, way over the top open eyed beauty, neon colorful & highly euphoric, see trip reports below...will continue to use for the rest of my life, highly recommend.

My procedure:
1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for DMT doses of 90mg or below, use 12 drops of boiling hot water to mix DMT doses over 90mg (such as 100 to 120mg). 60mg DMT = +3 Shulgin level strength, 90 to 120mg = +5 Shulgin level life changing strength.
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of a spoon for 2 minutes, scrape & mix everything back and forth hard using your muscles. This is how scientist pre-pare these complexes by kneading.
6) Hold a lighter under the spoon to heat up spoon for around 20 seconds or so, until the solution just starts to bubble on the edges, then pull flame away, so that complete dissolution or dissolving takes place, after heating up, mix the contents a little bit more before using, see pics.
7) Take 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 45 minutes before. Place 35mg of freebase harmine under your tongue. Then place bottom of your tongue onto HPBCD complexed DMT spoon, the HPBCD DMT glob will all adhere as HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes. Be sure to take the 35mg harmine and HPBCD DMT under tongue all at the exact same time in order to activate the DMT strongly.

Hold under tongue for 10 to 12 or 15 minutes depending on dosage, press down with bottom of tongue the whole time to trap sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa. Be sure to use bottom end of tongue to lick any off spoon that is left behind, you want to get it all.

At end of 15 minutes, spit out any saliva into a cup instead of swallowing. Gently relieve any saliva during the 15 minute period as comfort dictates by leaning your head forward and spitting into a cup, but keep your tongue pressed down any time you relieve saliva. There is a mild to moderate sting felt but it's so worth enduring for the effects which begin in 22 minutes. The sting does not bother me at all. The tongue is completely fine afterwards (no burn), and it's as if nothing happened the next day.

The combination of THH + DMT simulates true Ayahuasca, but there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero queasiness since there is no harmine or DMT going thru stomach and intestines. 22 minutes in there are heavy CEV's of spinning colored geometrics, visions of ancient architecture, animals, aliens, you name it, She seems to tap into the Akashic record of the ether in the Universe, where all past, present, and future is known. Open eyed profound beauty, music sounds incredible, extremely pleasurable experience, high spiritual euphoria.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1st journey: 300mg oral THH once + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT combined with sublingual 35mg harmine fb at exact same time under tongue with re-dose every 1.5 hour
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On my very first 300mg oral tetrahydroharmine or THH + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT combined with 35mg sublingual harmine fb trip with 2 sublingual re-doses at each 1.5 hour mark (had not used DMT in several months)....all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the sublingual DMT/harmine and oral THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw that first night.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.

They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind.

Recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world & "BAM, Builders of the Ancient Mysteries".

Return of the Serpent & of Eden:

https://earthmedicine2015.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/return-of-the-serpent-of-eden/
hxxps://earthmedicine2015.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/return-of-the-serpent-of-eden/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_at_Large

Have no problem tolerating the sting, but many others like yourself may not, therefore I recommend like you mentioned trying the HPBCD DMT orally, just stir the spoon full of it into 1oz of microwaved hot water, it dissolves right away, transparent colored water...

...and the HPBCD will mask the taste of the nasty DMT, due to the outer coating of HPBCD having a sugary taste as it is derived from the enzymatic degradation of starch, a carbohydrate. When you drink the hot tea with your harmalas, it is pleasant and goes down easy for zero nausea Ayahuasca. I recommend taking the HPBCD DMT tea with your harmalas dissolved into it (if harmalas in freebase form, add a bit of citric acid to help them dissolve into the water) at the exact same time, just as the Shaman's prepare it for strongest activation and journey.

Or just take capsules of the harmalas (160 to 200mg harmine + 150 to 300mg THH) at the exact same time you drink the HPBCD DMT oral tea. This way you can avoid the taste of the harmalas, and the freebase harmalas will dissolve fine once they reach stomach acid.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: page 4 & 5 of 16 under "Oral products, Kinetics":
Quote:

Cyclodextrins can be used to reduce or prevent gastrointestinal and ocular irritation, reduce or eliminate unpleasant smells or tastes.

The oral bioavailability of cyclodextrins is very low in adult animals and humans (0.1–3%), except for RM-β-CD, which has a bioavailability of 12% in rats. Because of their bulky and hydrophilic nature only insignificant amounts of cyclodextrins are absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract by passive diffusion [33, 27].




This pharmacology has been used to potentiate these freebase drugs ORALLY as well -- in my experience, this results in an Ayahuasca experience that is strong in potency. Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.

HPBCD makes the DMT freebase water & increases drug penetration x 4 factors or 400% into oral intestinal tissues or the sublingual mucosa. HPBCD also does a fine job of helping to mask the taste of the DMT when used orally.

I've used HPBCD complexed DMT orally three times stirred into a 1oz hot water tea (it dissolves instantly) with 150 to 300mg THH + 160 to 200mg harmine with a bit of citric acid to help the harmalas dissolve, and it's also way more potent than normal DMT freebase or salts used orally, very reminiscent of my over 70 Hawaiian psychotria brewed leaf teas, very strong & all encompassing. Trip report below:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD oral Ayahuasca report, +5 Shulgin scale
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The experiment was a success...I took the 80mg freebase DMT complexed to (x7) or 560mg of HPBCD (use x8 or 640mg if using the more common 2-HPBCD to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio) all kneaded/crushed using end of another spoon, use your muscles, scrape & crush it back and forth well...all mixed on a spoon for 2 minutes with 0.5 milliliter (10 drops) of VERY HOT near boiling water from a nearby coffee mug.

1300 g/mol HPBCD to 188 g/mol DMT freebase = 1:1 molar ratio
1500 g/mol 2-HPBCD to 188 g/mol DMT freebase = 1:1 molar ratio

Both work exactly the same.

What I do is heat up a bit of water in a coffee cup in microwave & draw up drops of it using pipette. I read using hot water speeds & aids the mixing of the HPBCD to host drug. Then heat bottom of spoon up for around 20 seconds with a bic lighter, just until the edges of the liquid on the spoon begin to bubble, then pull flame away, mix solution a few more seconds, this ensures complete dissolution.

I added the 0.5ml spoon full HPBCD DMT solution to 1oz of 120 degree hot water...this then immediately turned into 100% transparent water when it hit the hot liquid in the pyrex cup...This was stored in fridge until use...then when I was ready, the 1oz clear transparent liquid HPBCD DMT water solution, once re-heated up in pyrex pot on stove, to this was then added 200mg harmine + 250mg THH and also 150mg of pure ascorbic acid (vit C) to help dissolve the freebase harmine + thh.

Or you can just take pre-made capsules of your harmalas at the exact same time you drink the 1oz HPBCD DMT hot water tea to avoid the taste of the harmine and THH.

I gulped it down in one shot...there was virtually no taste! I think the HPBCD completely masked the taste of the nasty DMT...I was shocked...took it all together at same time at 3:30, I'm writing this 3 hours later.

It came on exactly like 30 grams of hawaiian psychotria! there was no difference between this and the leaf brew, again I was shocked...it gripped me powerfully, heavy tryptamine buzz and high frequency. The THH already imparts a body frequency buzz + DMT tryptamine buzz = amazing amplified body frequency.

A vibrating neon colored fortress like a magnetic field surrounded me in the room, it shined off of every object similar to a UV blacklight glow...this neon visual vibration appeared all around me, given off by everything around me. The vibrational frequency field reminded me of the tractor beam in Star Trek when they would transport. I've experienced this same phenomena with past journeys involving 30 to 35 grams of potent Hawaiian psychotria...but never with plain freebase DMT or DMT salts before, only again with this HPBCD DMT.

I had to remain in one spot sitting as it was so strong for 1 hour straight, the walls in the room filled with 3-D ish like honeycomb orange & brown geometrics that appeared to bulge slightly off the surface, like the inside of a bee hive, neon colors were abundant, heavy tracers...the beauty all around me was infinite, beautiful CEV's (spinning and dancing or constantly morphing geometrics) and OEV...I was amazed to say the least.

In conclusion, I am impressed with this route of administration via sublingual or oral.

During the oral Ayahuasca journey (200mg harmine + 250mg THH + 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD) for the first hour, all objects glowed or shined as if in caught in a neon colored magnetic transporter beam.

----------------------------------------
12 reasons pure THH or tetrahydroharmine rocks
-----------------------------------------

1. Post #12 of this paper: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. TIHKAL THH entry also achieved 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted.

1. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115:
Quote:

Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.



In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.

2. She is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine. She is the 2nd highest alkaloid in Caapi. She has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, she is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline, few people have used her over 100mg. I have seen the receptorome chart for THH vs. mescaline. She not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors A1-A3 associated with beauty and aesthetic enhancement, just like mescaline. Beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included, she is diamondlike shimmering in her beauty.

Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.

8. This pure THH at 300mg all by herself is extremely visual, she's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally.

9. The entry in TIHKAL for 300mg THH is completely wrong, where the unexperienced person compares it to the effects of 100mg harmaline. She is nothing at all like harmaline, and like 69ron once said about the person's comment in TIHKAL, he or she would not be able to tell their ass from their elbow. I agree, what complete nonsense. Dr. Shulgin wrote that he never got the chance to try THH, but wrote that more studies on it are "badly needed."

10. professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Quote:

Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.




11. Trips (from here on 12/2/2011):
Quote:

As to how the THH altered the experience -> I find rue extract+DMT to be very similar to mushrooms. I found the THH added to the rue+DMT to shift the experience to a state much closer to that provided by LSD. It was more clear, more energetic, more focused, and when confusion struck it was definitely more "acid-like".




The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence, a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain.

At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of teaching closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged way-beyond 4k visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine:

12. Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher):
Quote:

The vine carries the content of the message, the teaching, and the insight. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts.




Tetrahydroharmine or THH ranks very high on the "periodic psychedelic table" among all the known entheogens for inducing realistic way beyond 4k monochrome teaching visions for hours...adding even small amounts of DMT brightens and colorizes the visions, example: reptiles, birds & animals such as serpents/snakes/toucans/parrots/jaguars with patterning show their respective associated colors. Many times I have viewed multi-colored serpents, birds & jaguars several times over hour long CEV periods, serpents are the manifest spirit of Ayahuasca.

Daniel Pinchbeck "Breaking Open the Head" (Daniel also states in his book, that Ayahuasca is his favorite entheogen):
Quote:

For many people, Ayahuasca-a slowed-down low-res interface of the DMT flash-seems to convey strong messages from the natural world, of nature as sentient energy and spirit matter, of the need to protect the planet we have been given.

Yage whispers that human beings are meant to be gardeners of this reality, journeyers, storytellers and singers, weavers of the sacred. DMT, on the other hand, conveys no overt human or humane message.




Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 428:
Quote:

My experience with smoked DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings Ayahuasca introduced me to. For whereas the Ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or to some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.




Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher):
Quote:

In the western world, Ayahuasca acquired a new definition: It was now, by definition, the combination of Banisteriopsis caapi and a DMT-containing plant. Ayahuasca became, by definition “orally active DMT.” The first anthropologist to adopt the new definition seems to have been Luis Eduardo Luna in 1984. Luna spent time with Terence McKenna, absorbing his perspective, before beginning his fieldwork. Since then, anthropologists have increasingly adopted this definition and filtered their observations through it. The preeminence of the Ayahuasca vine in the indigenous Amazonian world became the elephant in the living room of Ayahuasca studies, with a tacit agreement to pretend it doesn’t exist.

The leaves were Ayahuasca’s “helpers,” I was told, and their purpose was to “brighten and clarify” the visions. The vine is like a cave, and the leaf is like a torch you use to see what is inside the cave. The vine is like a book, and the leaf is like the candle you use to read the book.

The vine is like a snowy television set, and the leaf helps to tune in the picture. There was a subtle attitude that the need for strong leaf was the sign of a beginner: An experienced ayahuasquero could see the visions even in low light.

Ayahuasca vine is not visionary in the same way as DMT. Visions from vine-only brewsare shadowy, monochromatic, like silhouettes, or curling smoke, or clouds moving across the night sky. It is because their visions are usually monochromatic that vines are classified by the color of vision they produce: white, black, blue, red (in my experience, dark maroon).

Snakes, the most common vision on Ayahuasca, are considered the manifest spirit of the vine. Vine visions can be hard to see; in fact, the “visions” may not be visual at all, but auditory or somatic or intuitive. But the vine carries the content of the message, the teaching, and the insight.

The leaf helps illuminate the content, but the teachings are credited to the vine. Vine visions are “frequently associated with writing, to a code that is present in visions…or in the ‘books’ where the spirits keep the secrets of the forest.” (Calavia Saez 2011:135).

The vine is The Teacher, The Healer, The Guide. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts. This is why it is the vine, not the leaf, that is classified by the type of vision it gives. “For them the vine is, in truth, a living guide, a friend, a paternal authority” (Weiskopf 2005:104).

Listening to the Vine:
While I was living in the village, someone began the process of shamanic apprenticeship. There was a series of ceremonies with brews of special strength for that purpose; brews with enormous quantities of vine. About two to three pounds of fresh vine per person was used (about 25 to 35 times the amount needed for MAOI inhibition). Those were powerful experiences indeed.

Although the apprenticeship began with crushingly vine-heavy brews, the more the apprentice progressed, the weaker the brew he would need. He would learn to see the dimmest of visions. If he spent a full two years “fasting,” then eventually even smelling or tasting the brew, even touching an Ayahuasca plant, would be enough to visit her realms. On the other hand, he would learn to navigate the strongest of brews with clear focus, and be undistracted by any amount of DMT fireworks.




Psychedelia, page 61:
Quote:

A traditional saying among Ayahuasqueros is that the jungle vine brings powerful realistic visions, but that the chacruna brings light to these visions. According to the view of Western research, this is not the case; essentially the entire psycho-activity resides with the chacruna leaves DMT content.

Ayahuasca researcher Luis Eduardo Luna recently observed that when surveying tribal lore praising the jungle vine, he could find no traces of similar mythology around the two most common plant admixtures; psychotria viridis or diplpterys cabrerana, even though these DMT plants to a Westerner would appear much more important than the harmala alkaloids of the B. caapi liana.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
References:

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D:
Quote:

Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.



I have years of experience with pure tetrahydroharmine, and it does indeed do this very well.

Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:
Quote:

You can't compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual harmine is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.


I use 35mg freebase harmine sublingually along with the sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT, 35mg sublingual has the power of x6 or 210mg oral harmine, but without the dizziness and un-easy feelings some sensitive individuals like myself may feel with an oral dose.

Dr. Narang:
Quote:

The absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection. Sublingual mucosa under tongue is only 100 to 200 microns thick.


In over 44 total sublingual experiences over a year's time, this sublingual route is many times more potent than oral DMT.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017:, under "Kinetics":
Quote:

Cyclodextrins at high doses can increase drug permeability by direct action on mucosal membranes and enhance drug absorption and/or bioavailability. These effects are possibly caused by solubilisation of membrane lipids through inclusion complexation with cyclodextrins and the ability of cyclodextrins to cause perturbation of membrane integrity. However, unlike detergents, cyclodextrins solubilize membrane components without entering into the membrane, therefore the perturbing effects of cyclodextrins are mild and reversible [7].Cyclodextrins are absorbed poorly via mucosal membranes.


HPBCD enhances the drug permeability of guest complexed drug, but the cyclodextrins themselves are poorly absorbed via the sublingual mucosa.

Pic 1: use a 1:1 molar ratio HPBCD to DMT

Pic 2: How to mix the DMT, HPBCD, and drops of very hot water on a spoon & chart of DMT strength.

Pic 3 left: 300mg pure THH for oral use in weigher, 35mg harmine fb for sublingual use next to it, 60mg dmt fb in spoon, 420mg HPBCD white powder above it, coffee mug of near boiling hot water, medicine dropper pipette, Bic lighter.

Pic 3 right: 60mg DMT was covered with x 7 or 420mg HPBCD powder and 10 drops of near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug was added, and all mashed and stirred well for 2 minutes, then Bic lighter held under spoon until the solution just started to boil (20 seconds or so), then pull flame away, notice how well the DMT complexed inside the HPBCD. Mix a few more seconds before using.

pic 4: 300mg of pure THH for oral use taken 45 minutes before, not shown: 35mg of freebase harmine for sublingual use taken at exact same time under tongue as the 0.5ml (10 drop) 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg HPBCD stored in a 3ml syringe if desired. Locking syringe caps prevent spillage.

Two re-dose syringes at the 1.5 hour point can be "back-filled" by removing plunger & pouring spoon's HPBCD complexed DMT solution down the syringe. Schematic showing sublingual mucosa only 100 to 200 microns thick.

Pic 5: Pure tetrahydroharmine glows pale blue under blacklight like LSD or psilocin, harmaline reduces to tetrahydroharmine by gaining a hydrogen atom. Tetrahydroharmine is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine, remarkable way beyond 4k monochrome (blue or green for me) closed eye teaching visions at 300mg for hours. No sedation, pleasant stimulation like mescaline. Adding even small amounts of sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT adds color to the visions.











Edited by tregar (01/16/22 08:58 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27621947 - 01/17/22 06:12 AM (2 years, 10 days ago)

Just a quick note: in the 44 times I've used 60 to 90mg HPBCD DMT sublingually under tongue, my tongue felt 100% fine the next day, no burn, completely normal, as if nothing was used the night before. 60mg HPBCD dmt = + 3 Shulgin level strength, and 90mg HPBCD dmt = + 5 Shulgin level strength.

All I can think of is make sure there is no sodium hydroxide contamination in your dmt before you complex it, as any remnants of it will surely burn, it helps to use a long glass pipette with rubber bulb and 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask (heat resistant & tapers at top for easy pull) when extracting, this will ensure no accidental grabbing of any lye water, ie contamination...and make sure the dmt is complexed to the HPBCD as well as you can, as freebase dmt without being complexed can burn as well.

My only other suggestion, is to just stir the HPBCD complexed DMT from off the spoon into 1oz of microwaved hot water (120 degree F) for oral Ayahuasca use, it dissolves instantly, and you will notice the water remains transparent due to the remarkable dissolution. Then just take a capsule full of 160 to 200mg harmine + 100 to 300mg THH at exact same time you drink the 1oz HPBCD DMT water tea. The harmalas can be in freebase form, work just fine. Take all at exact same time as the Shaman's do for strongest effects.

The HPBCD masks the taste of the nasty DMT freebase very well when used orally in a tea, and even helps to reduce gastrointestinal irritation by the freebase DMT. I was shocked in my oral use as there was virtually no taste, and zero nausea.

Using it orally works very well, used it this way x 3 times. It's many factors stronger than normal dmt freebase or salts used orally, as the HPBCD increases drug penetration x 4 factors or 400% into not only sublingual mucosa but intestinal tissues as well. 80mg HPBCD DMT Oral trip report in summary above in middle. Good luck, and thanks again for your report Physics envy.

One last note: make sure you have not used dmt in any form within the past 2 weeks, as this will ensure 90 minutes of very strong activity, and each dose thereafter for the evening will be just as strong as the first dose and last just as long.

Harmine and THH together are both important, just as Dr. Mckenna mentions for preventing the inactivation of DMT by MAO localized in mitrochondria within the cells of the brain, these both prevent zapping of the DMT, and greatly extend the half-life of the DMT several times over, just like with real oral Ayahuasca, as Benny Shanon mentions in "Antipodes of the Mind"..."there is always 90 minutes of very strong activity", this has been my experience as well when your tolerance is low.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27624133 - 01/19/22 03:31 AM (2 years, 9 days ago)

In closing, the 300mg oral pure tetrahydroharmine once (10.5 hour half life with peak at 5.25 hours) + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT + sublingual 35mg harmine fb taken at exact same time under tongue with 2 re-doses at the 1.5 hour mark gave five hours of brightly colored very meaningful & teaching Ayahuasca visions (+5 Shulgin level life-changing strength) that inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys. Serpents are also said by Ayahuasca researcher Gayle Highpine to be the manifest spirit of Ayahuasca.

They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind.

Recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world & "BAM, Builders of the Ancient Mysteries".

Return of the Serpent & of Eden:

https://earthmedicine2015.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/return-of-the-serpent-of-eden/
hxxps://earthmedicine2015.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/return-of-the-serpent-of-eden/

https://en.wikipedia...i/Mind_at_Large

Pic: Serpents are the manifest spirit of Ayahuasca

A few additional pics & from article "Return of the Serpent & of Eden" link given above:

Top left: Egyptian Goddesses Isis (Cobra) & Serapis: depicted as Sacred Serpents

Top middle: Shipibo Ayahuasca Tapestry: The Vase representing the Amazonian Medicine, The Serpents that of the Grandmother Spirit of Ayahuasca

Top middle: Cosmic Serpent: Book by Jeremy Narby

Top right: Mayan ruins

Bottom left: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl

Bottom middle: Aztec Serpent Moon Goddess (Coyolxauhqui). Other Aztec Serpent Symbols include: Quetzalcoatl (Feathered Serpent), Xiuhcoatl (Fire Serpent), Mixcoatl (Cloud Serpent), and Coatlicue (She with Serpent Skirt)

Bottom right: Kundalini Serpent Pathway

Bottom right: Shiva & Shakti: Siddhi Level of Divine Masculine & Feminine Balance



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27629543 - 01/23/22 12:06 PM (2 years, 4 days ago)

All posts on pages 1 and 2 of this thread have been updated for 1-23-2022 with subjects, instructions, trip reports & pics. Thanks everyone for your hard work and comments.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27634744 - 01/27/22 05:59 AM (2 years, 23 hours ago)

Igorcarajo said:
Quote:

Instead of the harmine sublingual, have you tried orally ingested harmine, maybe at the same time as THH, 45 minutes before the sublingual HPBCD-complexed DMT?


Thanks for joining in the discussion igorcarajo, seen you reading for some time. Great question igorcarajo, in fact, out of the 44 times I've used the sublingual HPBCD DMT over a year's time, the time I took 300mg pure tetrahydroharmine (THH) + 200mg harmine fb at the same time orally in capsules, then around an hour later took 90mg of sublingual HPBCD DMT (held under tongue for 15 minutes) was the most powerful experience visually with open eyes, and the deepest headspace yet encountered.

For some reason, the sublingual HPBCD DMT was many factors more powerful than any dosage of oral HPBCD DMT. It was many factors stronger, around x5 times. It was so powerful that I saw curtains of neon-colored visuals in the open doorway when I looked to my right. Everything in all directions was surrounded by brilliant neon-colored rainbows, the euphoria and music enhancement was very powerful.

Open-eyed beauty was beyond belief, divine and infinite. The tracers were so powerful, that they went on forever like a hall of mirrors into the distance, and instead of there just being multiples of my hands when I waved them, there were beautiful colored fractals inside the tracer smears. One hour after the sublingual HPBCD DMT started to work, it was still as strong visually & transcendence wise as when it started.

In my trip diary that night, I documented this as the most powerful sublingual experience of my life. There was zero nausea, dizziness or anxiety as well, very impressed. The 200mg of harmine was so powerful, that I continued by taking a 2nd dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT again 2 hour laters after the 1st dose, and it again worked just as strong as the first dose. With closed eyes were seen brightly colored Ayahuasca visions, in my diary I noted that I saw close to a hundred rapidly changing visions from Egpytian scenery to elaborate art carvings in stone, way beyond 4k in detail. This resulted in a +5 strength Shulgin level journey with life changing consequences.

The harmine having a half-life of from 1 to 3 hours, did not die off until around 5 hours later, so each time I took a re-dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT for the evening, it continued to work very strongly. I highly recommend this approach as you brought up in your question, and plan to use the oral harmine again with the oral THH again soon (next week again), but only using the HPBCD DMT sublingually as noted above.


Edited by tregar (01/27/22 12:15 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27646655 - 02/05/22 07:20 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1137474#post1137474
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1137474#post1137474

L-dreamer said:
Quote:

Making this thread so that I can post my thoughts on the dosing method described in this thread
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
My few experiences have consisted of about 60 mg of freebase DMT dissolved in 500 mg of HPBCD, with 250-300 mg of THH, and about 35 mg of sublingual harmala/harmaline

From the start I want to say that sublingual DMT with oral THH is everything I wanted ayahuasca/pharmahuasca to be. And I think it is also the best way for someone to be introduced to DMT
Where do I start with the pros
- no nausea at all, even if you take sublingual harmine/harmaline with it. It is such an odd and pleasant feeling to not have to fight constant nausea and vomit inducing dizziness. I literally don't have to worry about having a handy throwup bucket like I did with typical oral DMT.
- just the right kind of duration, it never overstays it's welcome, in about an hour you will get whatever you had to receive. No need for a bedridden 2+ h long comedown
- crisp, clear headspace. Previous oral DMT experiences have always given me this pinch of delirium and sleepiness to my mental state. But with this combo and I am fully present in it
- no come-up anxiety, the transition is gradual and smooth
- the DMT visuals are there, and in one experience they seemed even more glowing, or with actual real-life landscapes or persons assembling before my vision instead of the usual DMT geometry
- your body will love to move to the music you are listening
- let's say you accidental swallow the DMT solution or the saliva build-up becomes unbearable - you will still have a pharmahuasca experience with less if not any nausea. And also this form of oral DMT seems to absorb way better than a typical pharmahuasca
- you need less DMT than the typical pharmahuasca
- if you aborted the experience (saliva build-up that you spit out) you will now in about 25-30 minutes for sure, and then you can try again with the same DMT dosage, it won't stack like in pharmahuasca where it can sometimes take even 2 hours to enter fully

Now the cons:
- the saliva build-up can abort your start or break it's knees. Now if you swallow the solution you will still get a top-tier pharmahuasca trip, I repeat again, with barely any nausea. I tried with some cotton rolls in my mouth to stop the saliva pooling around the DMT solution but it was useless. Next thing I want to try are some saliva pads dentists use: either I trap the solution between the pad and the mouth floor, or I infuse the pads with the DMT solution, put the pad to the cheek mucosa or sublingual mucosa, and enjoy the slow release of DMT (even your lips can absorb this stuff pretty well, one of these days I will use the solution as ointment only for the lips to test it)
- and that is pretty much it, I can't think of any other cons of this way of taking DMT

With that in mind here are some questions that could be explored in the future
- how to get consistently the neon-glowing visions, they feel like such an eye-candy that your eyes feel compelled to see in all their beauty; is it a certain THH treshhold? less harmine/harmaline or more sublingual harmine/harmaline?
- do we really need the mouth floor? can I just smear this on my lips, inner cheek, upper gums or mouth top since with these there is not saliva problem?

I still can't believe people aren't all over this method, especially beginners. It is so versatile and maybe even "comfortable". It is worth experimenting only on it for me, goodbye throw bucket and tissues next to my bed, goodbye retching and holding in the taste of earthy vomit, goodbye 5 hour long sedation and diziness that takes up your entire day.
I predict in a short time sublingual DMT will have it's separate section on the Nexus.




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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27646741 - 02/05/22 09:07 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Hey tregar, have you tried alcohol in a sublingual DMT preparation? Perhaps a tincture can help with faster absorption and overcome some of the issues caused by the fast metabolism of DMT.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27647974 - 02/06/22 07:45 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1137474#post1137474
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1137474#post1137474

L-dreamer said:
Quote:
Quote:

Making this thread so that I can post my thoughts on the dosing method described in this thread
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
My few experiences have consisted of about 60 mg of freebase DMT dissolved in 500 mg of HPBCD, with 250-300 mg of THH, and about 35 mg of sublingual harmala/harmaline

From the start I want to say that sublingual DMT with oral THH is everything I wanted ayahuasca/pharmahuasca to be. And I think it is also the best way for someone to be introduced to DMT
Where do I start with the pros
- no nausea at all, even if you take sublingual harmine/harmaline with it. It is such an odd and pleasant feeling to not have to fight constant nausea and vomit inducing dizziness. I literally don't have to worry about having a handy throwup bucket like I did with typical oral DMT.
- just the right kind of duration, it never overstays it's welcome, in about an hour you will get whatever you had to receive. No need for a bedridden 2+ h long comedown
- crisp, clear headspace. Previous oral DMT experiences have always given me this pinch of delirium and sleepiness to my mental state. But with this combo and I am fully present in it
- no come-up anxiety, the transition is gradual and smooth
- the DMT visuals are there, and in one experience they seemed even more glowing, or with actual real-life landscapes or persons assembling before my vision instead of the usual DMT geometry
- your body will love to move to the music you are listening
- let's say you accidental swallow the DMT solution or the saliva build-up becomes unbearable - you will still have a pharmahuasca experience with less if not any nausea. And also this form of oral DMT seems to absorb way better than a typical pharmahuasca
- you need less DMT than the typical pharmahuasca
- if you aborted the experience (saliva build-up that you spit out) you will now in about 25-30 minutes for sure, and then you can try again with the same DMT dosage, it won't stack like in pharmahuasca where it can sometimes take even 2 hours to enter fully

Now the cons:
- the saliva build-up can abort your start or break it's knees. Now if you swallow the solution you will still get a top-tier pharmahuasca trip, I repeat again, with barely any nausea. I tried with some cotton rolls in my mouth to stop the saliva pooling around the DMT solution but it was useless. Next thing I want to try are some saliva pads dentists use: either I trap the solution between the pad and the mouth floor, or I infuse the pads with the DMT solution, put the pad to the cheek mucosa or sublingual mucosa, and enjoy the slow release of DMT (even your lips can absorb this stuff pretty well, one of these days I will use the solution as ointment only for the lips to test it)
- and that is pretty much it, I can't think of any other cons of this way of taking DMT

With that in mind here are some questions that could be explored in the future
- how to get consistently the neon-glowing visions, they feel like such an eye-candy that your eyes feel compelled to see in all their beauty; is it a certain THH treshhold? less harmine/harmaline or more sublingual harmine/harmaline?
- do we really need the mouth floor? can I just smear this on my lips, inner cheek, upper gums or mouth top since with these there is not saliva problem?

I still can't believe people aren't all over this method, especially beginners. It is so versatile and maybe even "comfortable". It is worth experimenting only on it for me, goodbye throw bucket and tissues next to my bed, goodbye retching and holding in the taste of earthy vomit, goodbye 5 hour long sedation and diziness that takes up your entire day.
I predict in a short time sublingual DMT will have it's separate section on the Nexus.




CreonAntigone
Quote:

Hey tregar, have you tried alcohol in a sublingual DMT preparation? Perhaps a tincture can help with faster absorption and overcome some of the issues caused by the fast metabolism of DMT.


Hi CreonAntigone, thanks for question. Yes, I've experimented with first dissolving the dmt into drops of everclear, then dissolving the everclear into HPBCD. This causes clumping and does not dissolve well, plus the everclear competes for entry into the HPBCD cone. Several HPBCD papers warn of the use of alcohol as it does indeed compete for entry into the cone. The method as stated using a spoon and drops of hot water on post #1 works fabulous as is, no fast metabolism of dmt when used sublingually, hits in 22 minutes (1/2 time of an oral dose) and lasts for 1.5 hour, works great as is, same way chemist Patrick Arnold taught to complex pro-hormones to HPBCD for sublinugual use while they were legal for 10 years. He had millions of dollars in sales of cyclo-diol, worked incredibly well and blood tests confirmed results.

From post #1:
Quote:

My procedure:
1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for DMT doses of 90mg or below, use 12 drops of boiling hot water to mix DMT doses over 90mg (such as 100 to 120mg). 60mg DMT = +3 Shulgin level strength, 90 to 120mg = +5 Shulgin level life changing strength.
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of a spoon for 2 minutes, scrape & mix everything back and forth hard using your muscles. This is how scientist pre-pare these complexes by kneading.
6) Hold a lighter under the spoon to heat up spoon for around 20 seconds or so, until the solution just starts to boil, then pull flame away, so that complete dissolution or dissolving takes place, after heating up, mix the contents a little bit more before using, see pics.
7) Take 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 45 minutes before. Place 35mg of freebase harmine under your tongue. Then place bottom of your tongue onto HPBCD complexed DMT spoon, the HPBCD DMT glob will all adhere as HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes. Be sure to take the 35mg harmine and HPBCD DMT under tongue all at the exact same time in order to activate the DMT strongly.

Hold under tongue for 10 to 12 or 15 minutes depending on dosage, press down with bottom of tongue the whole time to trap sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa. Be sure to use bottom end of tongue to lick any off spoon that is left behind, you want to get it all.

At end of 15 minutes, spit out any saliva into a cup instead of swallowing. Gently relieve any saliva during the 15 minute period as comfort dictates by leaning your head forward and spitting into a cup, but keep your tongue pressed down any time you relieve saliva. There is a mild to moderate sting felt but it's so worth enduring for the effects in 22 minutes. The sting does not bother me at all. The tongue is completely fine afterwards (no burn), and it's as if nothing happened the next day.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The combination of THH + DMT simulates true Ayahuasca, but there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero queasiness since there is no harmine or DMT going thru stomach and intestines. 22 minutes in there are heavy CEV's of spinning colored geometrics, visions of ancient architecture, animals, aliens, you name it, She seems to tap into the Akashic record of the ether in the Universe, where all past, present, and future is known. Open eyed profound beauty, music sounds incredible.

This all lasts for 90 minutes. You can re-dose more HPBCD DMT by two more times, around every 1.5 hours if you want. It remains just as effective as the first dose. The sublingual application is several factors stronger than oral DMT, and I've used oral DMT dozens of times.

Oral 300mg THH taken 1 hour earlier + sublingual 60 to 140mg HPBCD DMT journeys (over 44 of them over a year's time). This counts the two subsequent re-doses every 1.5 hour for the evening, for a 4.5 hour total strong journey with super-long afterglow.

With oral 150 to 300mg THH + sublingual 60-120mg HPBCD DMT + sublingual 35mg harmine fb, there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero un-easy feelings or anxiety, I tolerate this very well compared to oral DMT, extremely pleasurable experience, high spiritual euphoria.

First of all there was a deep head space, profound spiritual insights and revelations. I was seeing curtains of visuals in the doorway, closed eye neon spinning & dancing geometrics, music enhancement incredible, out of this world impossible neon colors (like neon yellow-purple) flashing on the walls, some times these colors on the walls would break up into fine lines like lazer beams, and paste themselves like hundreds of beams broadcast on the walls, concentric circle rings in the air, powerful lightening like tracers.

Open eyed beauty so over the top & infinite, actresses in movies looked like glowing, dazzling, super-colorful, cartoon versions of themselves, just like with high dose cactus tea, also zero anxiety just like mescaline. Euphoria was powerful, just like with high dose cactus tea.

Again with the sublingual: pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible.





Igorcarajo said:
Quote:

Instead of the harmine sublingual, have you tried orally ingested harmine, maybe at the same time as THH, 45 minutes before the sublingual HPBCD-complexed DMT?


Great question igorcarajo, in fact, out of the 44 times I've used the sublingual HPBCD DMT over a year's time, the time I took 300mg pure tetrahydroharmine (THH) + 200mg harmine fb at the same time orally in capsules, then around an hour later took 90mg of sublingual HPBCD DMT (held under tongue for 15 minutes) was the most powerful experience visually with open eyes, and the deepest headspace yet encountered.

For some reason, the sublingual HPBCD DMT was many factors more powerful than any dosage of oral HPBCD DMT. It was many factors stronger, around x5 times. It was so powerful that I saw curtains of neon-colored visuals in the open doorway when I looked to my right. Everything in all directions was surrounded by brilliant neon-colored rainbows, the euphoria and music enhancement was very powerful.

Open-eyed beauty was beyond belief, divine and infinite. The tracers were so powerful, that they went on forever like a hall of mirrors into the distance, and instead of there just being muliples of my hands when I waved them, there were beautiful colored fractals inside the tracer smears.

In my trip diary that night, I documented this as the most powerful sublingual experience of my life. There was zero nausea, dizziness or anxiety as well, very impressed. The 200mg of harmine was so powerful, that I continued by taking a 2nd dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT again 2 hour laters after the 1st dose, and it again worked just as strong as the first dose. With closed eyes were seen brightly colored Ayahuasca visions, in my diary I noted that I saw close to a hundred rapidly changing visions from Egpytian scenery to elaborate art carvings in stone, way beyond 4k in detail. This resulted in a +5 strength Shulgin level journey with life changing consequences.

The harmine having a half-life of from 1 to 3 hours, did not die off until around 5 hours later, so each time I took a re-dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT for the evening, it continued to work very strongly. I highly recommend this approach as you brought up in your question, and plan to use the oral harmine again with the oral THH again soon (next week again), but only using the HPBCD DMT sublingually as noted above.


Edited by tregar (02/06/22 07:47 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27648002 - 02/06/22 08:20 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

L-dreamer said:
Quote:

- how to get consistently the neon-glowing visions, they feel like such an eye-candy that your eyes feel compelled to see in all their beauty; is it a certain THH treshhold? less harmine/harmaline or more sublingual harmine/harmaline?



Once again, thanks for your amazing post L-dreamer, and keep up the great work. In answer to this important question, I always use 300mg of very pure home-made tetrahydroharmine (made easily from harmaline in 1.5 hour). You can sometimes find harmaline on-line if you don't want to start from rue seed scratch. 35mg sublingual harmine has power of around x6 or 210mg oral harmine. 60mg HPBCD dmt = + 3 Shulgin level strength, and 90mg HPBCD dmt = + 5 Shulgin level strength.

The fact that one of your experiences involved seeing actual real-life landscapes and persons assembling before your vision instead of the usual DMT geometry only indicates you are in the realm of actual Ayahuasca visions. You will find that many of the Ayahuasca visions begin with dancing & morphing geometry but these then progress to actual colored beautiful teaching visions, each time you see a new phase of geometrics many times indicates a transition to more phenomenal Ayahuasca visions, just as Benny Shanon remarks in "Antipodes of the Mind". I have found this to be true.

Always test any THH you may acquire elsewhere. For example, there is a THH many are using that is made in China, with several reports of it not glowing blue when a bit is rubbed on a wet q-tip and smeared on a paper palate, and the plate held under blacklight. Pure tetrahydroharmine glows light blue like LSD under UV light, any green in the glow indicates unconverted harmaline. Five reports so far from nexus people saying it glows green instead of blue like pure THH even though the paperwork indicates over 98% pure. THH never converts back to harmaline once made and remains stable indefintely, so this tells me the initial synthesis on those particular batches was incomplete.

As a long time chemist, I take purity seriously, and so should everyone. What would happen if THH with contaminated un-converted harmaline in it was mixed with LSD at same time like I often do for an incredible journey (feels like a combo of LSD + mescaline as THH is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline in many ways). It would not be a fun journey like it normally is when using pure THH. Always be careful. Test your THH, even home-made to make sure it is pure.

Pure THH at 300mg results in neon-glowing visions with open or closed eyes in every one of my 44 total oral 300mg THH + 35mg sublingual harmine + 90mg HPBCD DMT held at exact same time under tongue journeys. These 44 times count the 2 subsequent re-doses every 1.5 hour for a strong 4.5 hour experience with super long afterglow beyond that.

Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the pure THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral pure THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. The combo of THH + DMT is like listening to music on high-dose cactus tea, heavenly.

Again with the sublingual: pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible.

Here is an example of the glowing CEV visions you see when using pure THH:

On my very first 300mg oral THH + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT combined with 35mg sublingual harmine fb trip with 2 sublingual re-doses at each 1.5 hour mark (had not used DMT in several months)....all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the sublingual DMT/harmine and oral THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw that first night.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.


Edited by tregar (02/06/22 11:58 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27649163 - 02/07/22 06:16 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

ava69 wrote:
Quote:

Always test any THH you may acquire elsewhere. For example, there is a THH many are using that is made in China, with several reports of it not glowing blue when a bit is rubbed on a wet q-tip and smeared on a paper palate, and the plate held under blacklight. Pure tetrahydroharmine glows light blue like LSD under UV light, any green in the glow indicates unconverted harmaline. Five reports so far from nexus people saying it glows green instead of blue like pure THH even though the paperwork indicates over 98% pure. THH never converts back to harmaline once made and remains stable indefintely, so this tells me the initial synthesis on those particular batches was incomplete.




L-dreamer said:
Quote:

The THH I have does not glow blue (it did not come with a purity certificate), but it definitely is not harmine or harmaline since it does not give nausea at all. Taking more than 300 mg of it makes me a bit dizzy and that's it. And post experience I do feel the typical calmness or composure I got from previous aya drinks.




Thanks for the update. In answer to your question, using pure 300mg THH (which glows light blue) will most assuredly give you the glowing Ayahuasca visions consistently. Bottom of post #2 shows THH glow under blacklight:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1103282&#post1103282
I would recommend making your own, take care, all the best.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27655963 - 02/12/22 03:06 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

My preference is the sublingual HPBCD dmt, seems to always be some five times stronger than oral, like L-dreamer states: no delirium, very clear and crisp, zero dizziness, zero nausea, when combined with 35mg sublingual harmine and 300mg oral very pure tetrahydroharmine, perfect experience, intensely beautiful and clear just like mescaline. No words to describe. For music lovers like myself, it is a joy to listen to music for hours on end, sounds heavenly just like high dose cactus tea. Profound music enhancement, open eyed beauty infinite, abundant neon colors, the most beautiful teaching Ayahuasca visions, the divine spiritual insights gained are worth the admission alone.

Dirt cheap experience compared to the rare and expensive cactus which I also love dearly. 90mg HPBCD dmt sublingual + 35mg sublingual harmine + 300mg pure THH is like 600mg of mescaline. Intensely beautiful experience.

Taking 200mg of oral harmine + 300mg of oral THH + the sublingual HPBCD DMT taken 1 hour later is an experience so incredible and strong, still no nausea and dizziness for me:

In my trip diary that June night, I documented this oral harmine + oral THH + 90mg sublingual HPBCD dmt around 1 hour later as the most powerful sublingual experience of my life. Not only was there no dizziness or nausea but no anxiety as well, very impressed. For reasons posted by Dr. Narang on post #1, the sublingual HPBCD DMT was many factors more powerful than any dosage of oral HPBCD DMT. It was many factors stronger, around x5 times. It was so powerful that I saw curtains of neon-colored visuals in the open doorway when I looked to my right. Everything in all directions was surrounded by brilliant neon-colored rainbow reflections, the euphoria and music enhancement was very powerful.

Open-eyed beauty was beyond belief, divine and infinite. The tracers were so powerful, that they went on forever like a hall of mirrors into the distance, and instead of there just being multiples of my hands when I waved them, there were beautiful colored fractals inside the tracer smears. One hour after the sublingual HPBCD DMT started to work, it was still as strong visually & transcendence wise as when it started. Only at the 1.5 hour point did the DMT ween down in strength several levels.

The 200mg of harmine was so powerful, that I continued by taking a 2nd dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT again 2 hours later after the 1st dose, and it again worked just as strong as the first dose. With closed eyes were seen brightly colored Ayahuasca visions, in my diary I noted that I saw close to a hundred rapidly changing visions from Egyptian scenery to elaborate art carvings in stone, way beyond 4k in detail. This resulted in a +5 strength Shulgin level journey with life changing consequences.

The harmine having a half-life of from 1 to 3 hours, did not die off until around 5 hours later, so each time I took a re-dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT for the evening, it continued to work very strongly. I highly recommend this approach, and plan to use the oral harmine again with the oral THH many times again in the future, but only using the HPBCD DMT sublingually as noted above. Take care, all the best...peace, love and music.

Pic: 70 grams of pure tetrahydroharmine, will last me a lifetime, more valuable to me than any gold, never depart with. Refer to page 1 on how to make if interested. Pure THH glows blue under blacklight when a bit dabbed onto wet cue tip and smeared on plate under blacklight, serpents are the manifest Spirit of Ayahuasca.







Edited by tregar (02/12/22 08:18 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27661026 - 02/16/22 08:30 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

In closing, in order to create the 75g very pure THH that will last me a lifetime, here a few pics of the end stage. Just follow the "Tao of rue extraction" here, or something similar to get to the ending stage where you then precipitate pure harmine & pure harmaline following instructions on post #12 here.

pic1: 274 grams rue salt, 200 grams of this rue salt was used to precipitate the below alkaloids, rest put away.
pic2: 23g pure harmine fb precipitated at ph=7.0
pic3: not shown: 5g middle fb precipitation (ph=7.1 to 7.5 is a small precipitation of harmine with some harmaline mix), put away to save for a rainy day when you do another rue extract, to add back in, to further separate.
pic4: 116g pure harmaline fb precipitated above ph=7.5.
pic5: 75g very pure tetrahydroharmine fb made from 100g of the harmaline fb (around 75% yield, similar to yield in TIHKAL, which was also 75%). But the conversion uses all over the counter chemicals (ammonium hydroxide, vinegar, zinc dust) unlike the TIHKAL synthesis.



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27667438 - 02/21/22 06:50 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

L-dreamer said:
Quote:

Had another try today.
Ava was not kidding with the images of beautiful women. Today I had a vision of a naked blonde with the body of a literal Goddess opening my mind's eye like you would a zipper at the beggining. The perfection of the female form in full display with a glistening astral skin. And it wasn't any libido increase, just a sense of witnessing beauty. This effect is so peculiar to me, ava mentioned about certain adrenergic receptors that THH touches like mescaline does, but I could not find a source on how these receptors are actually involved in "Aesthetic perception"



L-dreamer you can find a book that explains receptorome psychedelic theory in James Kent book "Psychedelic information theory." Your visions of naked blonde Goddess beauty is very common in my own sublingual Ayahuasca visions as well, many times I've witnessed naked female forms, a spiritual beauty quality like artwork or music in all her divine perfection.




Edited by tregar (03/02/22 11:26 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27680340 - 03/02/22 11:28 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I had an experience last night that blew my mind, have not used dmt in 2 months, I found even just 25mg of sublingual harmine to be very powerful, yesterday, took 300mg very pure THH orally 45 minutes before, then 90mg HPBCD DMT on a spoon (90mg dmt complexed to x7 or 630mg plain HPBCD in 10 drops very hot water) mixed with only 25mg harmine freebase, held both under tongue at exact same time for 15 minutes, it all dissolved...

...for 2 hours I had the most powerful experience, like 600mg of mescaline, CEV's of morphing and spinning colored geometrics, open eyed beauty so over the top, watched 4k movies, actresses looked like dazzling, glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves the entire 2 hours. Neon color saturation so powerful it spilled over on to every corner of the house and walls, the entire walls then filled with neon colors that flashed and morphed into other colors, these neon colors then broke up into fine lines like laser beams and pasted themselves across the entire front wall, it was mesmerizing...intense open eyed beauty, no words to describe, music enhancement so powerful...

Best of all, super deep head space, very strong mescaline like spiritual euphoria or ecstasy, profound spiritual insights, an infinite source of love, creative energy & wisdom. I found no need to re-dose more of the sublingual dmt, such a powerful journey..intense afterglow all night and next day.

I can't stress enough how important it is to allow at least 2 weeks between journeys.

...I kept saying how is this possible with only 25mg sublingual harmine...but it has the power of at least x6 or 150mg oral harmine, zero nausea, zero dizziness, like high dose mescaline, extremely visual. The geometrics turned into full-fledged Ayahuasca visions when I closed my eyes for long periods of time, saw interlocking artwork made out of stone that solved ancient puzzles, like Puma Punku, breathtaking Egyptian myths laid out before my eyes, I saw thoth (Egyptian man with the head of an ibis) with multicolored beak, Egyptian women in overflowing beauty, elaborate architecture rapidly changing, so incredibly beautiful. So in other words, give only 25mg harmine a chance compared with 35mg harmine freebase.

Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:
Quote

You can't compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual harmine is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.

pic1: 300mg oral very pure THH + 25mg sublingual harmine + 90mg sublingual HPBCD DMT

pic2: closeup 300mg oral very pure THH + 90mg sublingual HPBCD DMT to which was added 25mg sublingual harmine





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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27681407 - 03/03/22 06:49 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

:heart:


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: SurReality]
    #27683542 - 03/05/22 07:55 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Thank you kindly SirReality.

On oral harmine, THH and tolerance...

I'm not sure why this is, but I've noticed that you can take a journey every 7 days if you want, with virtually no tolerance so long as you take 200mg harmine orally along with 150 to 300mg THH orally at same time...take the 60 to 100mg HPBCD DMT sublingually 45 minutes to 1 hour later (once you feel the oral harmine working), as the sublingual HPBCD DMT is some x5 times more powerful than any oral dosage of DMT. I've noticed THH already has a reverse tolerance and harmine seems to have an innate power of reducing psychedelic tolerance somehow.

Since oral harmine has a half life of from 1 to 3 hours, and THH a half life of 10.5 hours with peak at 5.25 hours, I've even re-dosed more sublingual HPBCD DMT after the 1st dose wears off (1.5 to 2 hours later), and the 2nd dose is just as strong as the first dose, since the oral harmine is still quite active, it doesn't really die down fully until 5 hours after you take it.

This way you can have a 4.5 hour long trip (with super-long afterglow) every 7 days if you so desire. Although, I recommend you try and keep it at more like 3 times a month or so, similar to the frequency the Santo Daime use Ayahuasca.

So long as the HPBCD DMT is used sublingually, there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, no delirium, crystal clear clarity like mescaline...there is something about DMT going thru the stomach that tends to induce nausea and weird uncomfortable strange feelings, just as L-dreamer mentions in post #2 of this thread at the very beginning. Same thing with me. It's also no where near as potent as sublingually used HPBCD DMT.

I've attached a tolerance chart for those interested using this method at the bottom.

This coming Friday (9 days after I had a recent experience) I will post a 200mg oral harmine + 300mg oral THH + 100mg sublingual HPBCD DMT experience and re-dose more 100mg sublingual HPBCD DMT around 2 hours later.

My procedure:
1) place 100mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the more common 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 100mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 700mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 800mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for DMT doses of 90mg or below, use 12 drops of boiling hot water to mix DMT doses of 90mg or more (such as 90 to 100mg). 60mg DMT = +3 Shulgin level strength, 90 to 100mg DMT = +5 Shulgin level life changing strength.
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, scrape & mix everything back and forth hard using your muscles. This is how scientist pre-pare these complexes by kneading.
6) Optional (you do not have to do this): Hold a lighter far away from under the spoon to heat up spoon for around 20 seconds or so, then pull flame away, this seems to aid dissolution or dissolving after heating up a slight bit, mix the contents a little bit more before using.
7) Take 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 45 minutes before...and take 200mg harmine orally around 45 minutes to 1 hour before...if you don't take harmine orally, then place 25 to 35mg of freebase harmine under your tongue. Then place bottom of your tongue onto HPBCD complexed DMT spoon, the HPBCD DMT glob will all adhere as HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes. Be sure to take the 35mg harmine and HPBCD DMT under tongue all at the exact same time in order to activate the DMT strongly.

Hold under tongue for 10 to 12 or 15 minutes depending on dosage, hold under tongue the whole time to trap sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa. Be sure to use bottom end of tongue to lick any off spoon that is left behind, you want to get it all.

At end of 15 minutes, spit out any saliva into a cup instead of swallowing. Gently relieve any saliva during the 15 minute period as comfort dictates by leaning your head forward and spitting into a cup, but keep your tongue pressed down any time you relieve saliva. There is a mild to moderate sting felt but it's so worth enduring for the effects which begin in 22 minutes or 1/2 the time of an oral dose (44 minutes). The sting does not bother me at all. The tongue is completely fine afterwards (no burn), and it's as if nothing happened the next day.

Here is one of my past experiences:

200mg oral harmine + 300mg oral THH + 90mg sublingual HPBCD DMT 1 hour later:

From Trip Diary, June 2021:
Quote:

In my trip diary this June night, I documented this oral 200mg harmine + oral 300mg THH + 90mg sublingual HPBCD dmt around 1 hour later as the most powerful sublingual experience of my life. Not only was there no dizziness or nausea or delirium, but no anxiety as well, very impressed. For reasons posted by Dr. Narang on post #1, the sublingual HPBCD DMT was many factors more powerful than any dosage of oral HPBCD DMT. It was many factors stronger, around x5 times.

It was so powerful that I saw curtains of neon-colored visuals in the open doorway when I looked to my right. Everything in all directions was surrounded by brilliant neon-colored rainbow reflections, the euphoria and music enhancement was very powerful.

Open-eyed beauty was beyond belief, divine and infinite. The tracers were so powerful, that they went on forever like a hall of mirrors into the distance, and instead of there just being multiples of my hands when I waved them, there were beautiful colored fractals inside the tracer smears. One hour after the sublingual HPBCD DMT started to work, it was still as strong visually & transcendence wise as when it started. Only at the 1.5 hour point did the DMT ween down in strength several levels.

The 200mg of harmine was so powerful, that I continued by taking a 2nd dose of sublingual 90mg HPBCD DMT again 2 hours later after the 1st dose, and it again worked just as strong as the first dose. With closed eyes were seen brightly colored Ayahuasca visions, in my diary I note that I saw close to a hundred rapidly changing visions from incredibly beautiful women, birds, gardens, palaces, temples, inner decorations of these palaces, artwork of an entire culture, ancient pristine & perfect architecture to elaborate art carvings in stone, way beyond 4k in detail. The visions never repeat, of a beauty that defies comprehension. This resulted in a +5 strength Shulgin level journey with life changing consequences.

The harmine having a half-life of from 1 to 3 hours, did not die off until around 5 hours later, so each time I took a re-dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT for the evening, it continued to work very strongly. I highly recommend this approach, and plan to use the oral harmine again with the oral THH many times again in the future, but only using the HPBCD DMT sublingually as noted above.



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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27684823 - 03/06/22 09:22 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

tregar, would you send me some crude Syrian rue extract or some harmine? It would help me out.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27685436 - 03/06/22 06:29 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Hello,
I seem to remember from a previous post that you very much disliked oral harmine due to the dizziness it produced and preferred  sublingual administration.  What made you change your mind?


Edited by idontknow1 (03/06/22 06:30 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: idontknow1]
    #27685973 - 03/07/22 07:37 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

idontknow 1 said:
Quote:

I seem to remember from a previous post that you very much disliked oral harmine due to the dizziness it produced and preferred  sublingual administration.  What made you change your mind?



At the time I was combining the harmine with "oral dmt", the harmine by itself I noticed is not really dizzy producing at 200mg levels and below. Then I noticed when using the THH + harmine orally, then using the HPBCD DMT sublingually, still no dizziness or nausea. Either method is great, using the harmine at 25 to 35mg sublingually or 200mg harmine orally, I go back and forth. But either way always take 150 to 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before. I suggest others experiment with not only sublingual harmine but trying it orally (150 to 200mg). I love both methods.

What this graph says--in short--is that if you trip some day then you would need to take almost 3 times as much (300%) the day after to achieve the same effect. At least 1-2 weeks of clean time/abstinence would be required for a good estimation. Making sense of your experience usually takes even longer than a week or so, you need time to fully integrate your last trip. Tripping hard definitely requires recovery time. Tetrahydroharmine is unusual in the psychedelic world, in that it "reverses the serotonin transporter" similar to ibogaine, instead of acting directly at 5-ht1a substrate (makes up over 80% of serotonin receptors in the brain) like LSD, mescaline, shrooms. I've done an experiment once in my lifetime taking 300mg of THH every 4 days, and it indeed becomes increasingly stronger and stronger for up to 2 weeks, before a point is reached where you have to stop to reset for a week. So in other words, THH has reverse tolerance, but only up to a point. She is a very special compound, best kept secret in the psychedelic world, 12 reasons why she is important on post #1.

Personal note: I may be a long term chemist, but I developed a method many years ago so that anyone can make tetrahydroharmine (THH) at home. See post #12. I actually fell into a trance state after a death and received the information from a divine source on how to do this, as I was stuck at one point for weeks on end with no solution. No fancy chemicals or equipment needed like TIHKAL THH Synthesis. Due to the hundreds of Spiritual centers in South America needing these plants, Caapi is increasingly being harder to find. You can do this with normal coffee filters and cotton ball stuffed in a funnel. Tetrahydroharmine (THH): she is as valuable as mescaline, can't do without her. Diamondlike shimmering in her beauty.

In brews analyzed by the UDV, Santo Daime and Shuar Indian, THH levels were at the same high levels of harmine in the plant. Somehow, over their day's long cooking process perhaps using vitamin C (hydrogen doner) in the cooking, the THH would attain levels found as harmine in the plants. Harmaline levels often found zero but always very low (0 to 30mg levels) in a typical brew. Just google tetrahydroharmine wikipedia and read the studies attached at bottom.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27686216 - 03/07/22 12:49 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Why do you think it is that you are gaining tolerance to these substances? Typically DMT does not induce a tolerance and harmala alkaloids induce sensitivity rather than tolerance with regular use.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Northerner]
    #27687906 - 03/08/22 07:20 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I want to give this a try, the last time I orally took the hcl I barely got any effects with it, even took it with 10g Syrian rue seed tea.

When doing this are you swallowing the tetrahydroharmine or under the tongue?


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Ganja420Boy]
    #27701706 - 03/19/22 06:22 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Northerner said:
Quote:

Why do you think it is that you are gaining tolerance to these substances? Typically DMT does not induce a tolerance and harmala alkaloids induce sensitivity rather than tolerance with regular use.


You are correct, Ayahuasca has next to no tolerance, address this below, other psychedelics are according to graph above however.

Ganja420boy said:
Quote:

I want to give this a try, the last time I orally took the hcl I barely got any effects with it, even took it with 10g Syrian rue seed tea.

When doing this are you swallowing the tetrahydroharmine or under the tongue?


THH is taken orally, you don't want to overtax your sublingual muscosa, the hpbcd dmt is plenty already.

Note: what works for me to reduce nausea to zero is to use way less than 200mg of harmine only, no harmaline (nauseating & sedating), pure THH is not nauseating at all, nor the HPBCD complexed DMT. Jonathan Ott also reported in his 30 pharmahuasca journeys in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues" that he never experienced any nausea, he also kept his harmine at around 160mg. Just some suggestions, of course everyone is different.

I've taken pharmahuasca close to a 100 times in a decade. Most recent 3-21-2022 experience with pics attached at bottom:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update 4pm 3/21/2022: I am writing this 1.5 hour later: took the 1-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca (150mg HPBCD DMT, 250mg THH, 170mg harmine all dissolved into 30ml hot water) and it worked incredibly well! Phenomenal strength, for the 1st 10 minutes I held on tight as it felt like I was handling a high speed sports car, ego disintegrating & boundaries shattered...then it became at 10 minutes extremely enjoyable, infinite open eyed beauty, incredible closed eye morphing geometrics in purple, pink, green, with open eyes, saturated neon colors and neon colored rainbow reflections surrounded everything which glowed intensely with an inner divine light, music playing was just heavenly, incredible music enhancement, +5 Shulgin level experience, most powerful experience I've had in years....I could not believe the open eyed beauty--phenomenal...this is my preferred method. WOW, unbelievable experience, high euphoria, deep headspace, profound spiritual insights, extremely visual, had the power of Hawaiian psychotria to the highest degree. I experienced zero nausea, zero dizziness (so long as I keep my harmine dose below 200mg). Love Love Love
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
150mg is the average amount of THH in an Ayahuasca brew, whereas there is 300mg when 2 cups are drank for evening by more advanced members of the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian, or advanced drinkers like myself.

I've noticed there is zero tolerance when using the HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca orally, remains same potency even 7 days later, zero nausea, zero dizziness...(so long as I keep my harmine dose below 200mg). Peaks around 60 minutes after effects begin. Jonathan Ott noticed 160mg harmine to be extremely effective (strong) for activating DMT in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", same here...I used to always use 200mg harmine, but found 160mg to work great based on his recommendation, and it results in no nausea or dizziness at this dose. Just make sure your stomach is near empty, around 4 hours after a meal for this to work very well.

2 minute formed HPBCD DMT not only makes the DMT freebase water soluble, but it increases the absorption of the DMT by several factors into the intestinal tissues.

This pharmacology has been used to potentiate these poorly absorbed freebase drugs orally as well -- in my experience, this results in an Ayahuasca experience that is strong in potency.

Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.

In my experiences, this is way more potent than normal DMT freebase or salts used orally, very reminiscent of my over 70 Hawaiian psychotria brewed leaf teas, very strong & all encompassing.

From thethirdwave.co:
Quote:

Does ayahuasca produce tolerance?
Ayahuasca tolerance is very mild and you can take another dose within a day without significantly reduced effects. It also does not produce tolerance to other psychedelics.




Jonathan Ott, "The Internationalization of Ayahuasca", page 108:
Quote:

There is an average of 160mg harmine per dose in Caapi potions. In the course of some three dozen psychonautic bioassays (self-experiments) with crystalline samples of DMT and harmine (which I myself had isolated from appropriate plants), we substantiated an verified the theory of the "ayahuasca-effect," that doses as low as 120mg (below the average amount found in analyzed doses of the potions) could render minuscule doses of DMT psychoactive and visionary (between 25 and 30mg).



From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:
Quote:

Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.

Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.

An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.

I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.

--> It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?



This agrees with what I read from clearlight:
Quote:

Clearlight experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.


Hawaiian psychotria is so potent because it contains polysaccharides in the leaf which bind to the DMT and enhance absorption severalfold into the intestinal tissues. HPBCD is a polysaccharide with six glucose units, when complexed to freebase dmt, it makes the DMT water soluble as well as increasing it's bioavailability similar to the way psychotria does this.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: Page 4 of 16:
Quote:

Cyclodextrins can be used to reduce or prevent gastrointestinal and ocular irritation, reduce or eliminate unpleasant smells or tastes.


HPBCD helps mask the taste of the DMT when used orally in a hot tea & reduce or eliminate any intestinal irritation by the DMT.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017:, under "Kinetics":
Quote:

Cyclodextrins at high doses can increase drug permeability by direct action on mucosal or intestinal membranes and enhance drug absorption and/or bioavailability. These effects are possibly caused by solubilisation of membrane lipids through inclusion complexation with cyclodextrins and the ability of cyclodextrins to cause perturbation of membrane integrity. However, unlike detergents, cyclodextrins solubilize membrane components without entering into the membrane, therefore the perturbing effects of cyclodextrins are mild and reversible [7].Cyclodextrins are absorbed poorly via mucosal membranes.




"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: page 5 of 16 under "Oral products, Kinetics":
Quote:

The oral bioavailability of cyclodextrins is very low in adult animals and humans (0.1–3%), except for RM-β-CD, which has a bioavailability of 12% in rats. Because of their bulky and hydrophilic nature only insignificant amounts of cyclodextrins are absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract by passive diffusion [33, 27].



Note: music lovers like myself will love this Ayahuasca formula high in THH, as there is very strong music enhancement (similar to high dose mescaline) in combo with the DMT...and you can re-dose after the DMT effects wear down to continue not only the strong music enhancement, but open eyed profound beauty, neon colors, open eyed visuals, closed eye geometrics which progress into full fledged colored Ayahuasca visions. The THH has a half life of 10.5 hours with peak at 5.25 hours, so you never have to re-dose the THH for the evening, only the harmine and DMT to continue the divine journey. One of my favorite things to do is listen to music for hours on end while I enjoy the profound open eyed beauty and visuals. Watching 4k movies is also a blast, extremely enjoyable.

Ayahuasca is strong medicine and VERY TRIPPY, but like Benny shanon said in his book "Antipodes of the Mind", "many people enjoy Ayahuasca as if going to the theatre and watching a good movie". Even Jonathan Ott remarked on his euphoric Ayahuasca trips being a source of intense enjoyment & pleasure, same here. Sometimes divine spiritual transcendence is just the medicine we need. Ayahuasca is a great way to stay Psychedelic for the rest of your life.

P.S. Don't forget to visit your local waterpark this summer, former beach & waterpark deep water lifeguard, we get a summerpass and go all spring, summer & fall at least twice a week, lots of fun! I sometimes take a bridgesii cactus tea with 200mg THH combo together in the morning before I go (taking the THH 1 hour after the cactus), unbelievable fun, all of nature looks like a fairytale land full of neon colored bikinis & the music sounds great being played over the outdoor speakers.

Pic 1: attached chart of harmine and DMT strength from Jonathan Ott's "Ayahuasca Analogues"

Pic 2: Serpents are the manifest spirit of Ayahuasca, have seen them multiple times on many Ayahuasca journeys.

Top left: Egyptian Goddesses Isis (Cobra) & Serapis: depicted as Sacred Serpents

Top middle: Shipibo Ayahuasca Tapestry: The Vase representing the Amazonian Medicine, The Serpents that of the Grandmother Spirit of Ayahuasca

Top middle: Cosmic Serpent: Book by Jeremy Narby

Top right: Mayan ruins

Bottom left: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl

Bottom middle: Aztec Serpent Moon Goddess (Coyolxauhqui). Other Aztec Serpent Symbols include: Quetzalcoatl (Feathered Serpent), Xiuhcoatl (Fire Serpent), Mixcoatl (Cloud Serpent), and Coatlicue (She with Serpent Skirt)

Bottom right: Kundalini Serpent Pathway

Bottom right: Shiva & Shakti: Siddhi Level of Divine Masculine & Feminine Balance





Edited by tregar (03/23/22 09:07 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27703382 - 03/21/22 11:15 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste & increases absorption many factors

3-21-2022 journey report:

170mg harmine fb
250mg very pure tetrahydroharmine fb
150mg HPBCD DMT dissolved (from off the spoon) into 1 shot glass of 125 degree F hot water, it dissolves instantly in the hot water, transparent color, hardly any taste at all, as the HPBCD masks the taste of the nasty DMT freebase as it goes down.

What I do is gulp down the hot one-shot HPBCD DMT liquid with harmine & THH dissolved into it...as my harmalas are in freebase form, I add 150mg of 100% pure vitamin C powder to the shot glass so the harmalas will dissolve into the solution, same way the Shaman's take Ayahuasca, all ingredients at once.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update 4pm: I am writing this 1.5 hour later: took the 1-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca (150mg HPBCD DMT, 250mg THH, 170mg harmine all dissolved into 30ml hot water) and it worked incredibly well! Phenomenal strength, for the 1st 10 minutes I held on tight as it felt like I was handling a high speed sports car, ego disintegrating & boundaries shattered...then it became at 10 minutes extremely enjoyable, infinite open eyed beauty, incredible closed eye morphing geometrics in purple, pink, green, with open eyes, saturated neon colors and neon colored rainbow reflections surrounded everything which glowed intensely with an inner divine light, music playing was just heavenly, incredible music enhancement, +5 Shulgin level experience, most powerful experience I've had in years....I could not believe the open eyed beauty--phenomenal...this is my preferred method. WOW, unbelievable experience, high euphoria, deep headspace, profound spiritual insights, extremely visual, had the power of Hawaiian psychotria to the highest degree. I experienced zero nausea, zero dizziness (so long as I keep my harmine dose below 200mg). Love Love Love
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pic 1: Top to bottom, raw ingredients: 250mg very pure tetrahydroharmine, 170mg harmine fb, 150mg dmt fb, 1050mg HPBCD (150mg dmt x 7 = use 1050mg HPBCD to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio).

Pic 2: 150mg dmt was covered with 1050mg HPBCD, 14 drops boiling hot water from a nearby microwaved coffee mug was added, stirred all ingredients together and crushed on the spoon using the end of another spoon, scraping it back and forth using muscles to mix it all together for 2 minutes, lighter then held 1 inch away from bottom of spoon for 20 seconds while spoon heated up a slight bit, then mixed contents 10 seconds more, notice the homogeneous mixture. Also shown: 170mg harmine in a gelatin capsule, 250mg THH in a gelatin capsule, which I broke open later to add to the one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca.

Pic 3: This is a closeup of the HPBCD DMT complex on the spoon before it was added to the shot glass

Pic 4: (bottom left) The spoon full of HPBCD DMT was then stirred for a few seconds into a shot glass (30ml) full of 125 degree F water from the microwave, it dissolves instantly, notice the transparent clear color , this is how well it dissolves.

This last pic shows a closeup of the shot glass full of HPBCD DMT. The HPBCD masks the taste of the DMT as it goes down orally, Hawaiian psychotria is so potent because it contains polysaccharides in the leaf which bind to the DMT and enhance absorption several fold into the intestinal tissues.

HPBCD is a polysaccharide with six glucose units derived from the enzymatic degradation of cornstarch, when complexed to freebase dmt, it makes the DMT water soluble as well as increasing it's bioavailability similar to the way psychotria does this, increasing absorption by many factors into the intestinal tissues.

Pic 4: (bottom right) I reheated the 30ml of HPBCD DMT clear solution in a tiny pyrex pot back up to 125 degree F when I was ready to use for the afternoon...then added the freebase harmine and THH along with 150mg of 100% pure vitamin C powder so the freebase harmalas could dissolve, stirred it all together and drank all at once just as the Shaman's do. Notice the very light caramel color of one-shot Ayahuasca.

Art courtesy of Miles Johnston, "the hollows" & Hannah Faith Yata, "the convulsively beautiful paintings of Hannah Yata".









Edited by tregar (03/23/22 09:02 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27705419 - 03/23/22 05:34 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

More detailed info here:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=20
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=20

Update 4pm 3/21/2022: I am writing this 1.5 hour later: took the 1-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca (150mg HPBCD DMT, 250mg THH, 170mg harmine all dissolved into 30ml hot water) and it worked incredibly well! Phenomenal strength, for the 1st 10 minutes I held on tight as it felt like I was handling a high speed sports car, ego disintegrating & boundaries shattered...then it became at 10 minutes extremely enjoyable, infinite open eyed beauty, incredible closed eye morphing geometrics in purple, pink, green, with open eyes, saturated neon colors and neon colored rainbow reflections surrounded everything which glowed intensely with an inner divine light, music playing was just heavenly, incredible music enhancement, +5 Shulgin level experience, most powerful experience I've had in years....I could not believe the open eyed beauty--phenomenal...this is my preferred method. WOW, unbelievable experience, high euphoria, deep headspace, profound spiritual insights, extremely visual, had the power of Hawaiian psychotria to the highest degree. I experienced zero nausea, zero dizziness (so long as I keep my harmine dose below 200mg). Love Love Love


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27706310 - 03/23/22 10:20 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Icon just posted the following comment in another thread and I'm curious what your opinion of it is:

Quote:

Icon said:
You could probably isolate it, though I don't think you'd want to. THH is technically an SSRI. Still a very special harmala, but you also want some harmine for mao inhibition.



#27704144


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: s240779]
    #27706492 - 03/24/22 05:42 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Yes S240779, THH is extremely important....see posts on why this is so, on page 9



Edited by tregar (03/27/22 10:12 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27706656 - 03/24/22 09:25 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

In another thread, you complimented me on one of my posts, saying 'beautiful post' (#27698541), so I wanted to again ask you if you could spare some crude rue extract or some harmine.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: s240779] * 1
    #27707918 - 03/25/22 09:33 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)
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Yes, S240779, your posts are top notch, keep up the great work, excellent work. How is it that you cannot find harmine or THH on-line using google, in what country are you located if you don't mind my asking ? PM me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Go to bottom of page 8 for full trip report with 6 pics for ONE-SHOT HPBCD AYAHUACA, MASKS TASTE and increases absorption many factors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found I can use the oral HPBCD DMT any time, as there is zero tolerance to it orally. No more waste of DMT, works incredibly well each and every time.

The beautiful closed eye colored purple, pink and green morphing & dancing geometrics lasted a full 45 minutes using this oral 150mg HPBCD DMT dosage (which progress into full blown realistic Ayahuasca visions).

From Thirdwave.co:
Quote:

Does ayahuasca produce tolerance?
Ayahuasca tolerance is very mild and you can take another dose within a day without significantly reduced effects. It also does not produce tolerance to other psychedelics.




I would recommend you even try 120mg of harmine if you do not want to go with 160mg which works very well for activating the DMT orally. I will always continue to use 160mg of harmine orally in the future, same way Jonathan Ott arrived at using in his 30 experiments in his book. No nausea or dizziness at this 160mg oral dosage for me, just as Jonathan Ott remarked for himself as well. I always avoid any amount of harmaline, as I am guaranteed nausea and dizziness if there is even a tiny amount of it in my Ayahuasca.

Jonathat Ott:
Quote:

doses as low as 120mg (below the average amount found in analyzed doses of the potions) could render minuscule doses of DMT psychoactive and visionary (between 25 and 30mg).




I absolutely love the one-shot oral Ayahuasca using 150mg HPBCD DMT, 160 to 170mg harmine, and around 250 to 300mg of THH dissolved into 30ml hot water and drank all at once, just as the Shaman's do, and will continue to use her at various DMT doses for the rest of my life, absolute favorite.

Zero tolerance, nausea, or dizziness for me, plus I can use any time I want, even 7 days later I noticed zero tolerance. This 150mg HPBCD DMT has the exact same power and all-encompassing as 40g Hawaiian psychotria, which is at the very high end for advanced Ayahuasca use, which I only ventured at this leaf dose around 5 times in my 70 total Hawaiian psychoria brews over a 10 year period.

Note: I have used as little as 150mg of harmine orally, and it is still extremely effective. I would recommend experimenting with very low harmine doses like 120mg, or 150mg for guaranteed strong activation with the least bodily side effects, see chart bottom of page 8 of harmine strength from Ott, which I have found to be very accurate in my own journeys. Jonathan Ott mentioned later on-line that he increased his doses to as high as 160mg DMT in later journeys, so he did not stop at the 70mg level like his chart. He also mentioned that he gave himself just 7 days between all of his three dozen journeys, also experiencing zero tolerance.

Full instructions for one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon (60mg for beginners)
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for DMT doses of 90mg or below, use 12 drops of boiling hot water to mix DMT doses of 90mg or more (such as 90 to 100mg). Use 14 drops of hot water for 150mg DMT. 60mg DMT = +3 Shulgin level strength, 90mg DMT = +4 Shulgin level life strength. 150mg DMT = +5 Shulgin level life changing experience.
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, scrape & mix everything back and forth hard using your muscles. This is how scientist pre-pare these complexes by kneading.
6) Optional (you do not have to do this): Hold a lighter one inch away from under the spoon to heat up spoon for 20 seconds, then pull flame away, this seems to aid dissolution or dissolving after heating up a slight bit, mix the contents 10 seconds more before using, see pics at bottom of page 8.
7) Refer to bottom of page 8 with 6 pics, simply dunk spoon of HPBCD DMT into 30ml (one-shot) of 125 degree F water from microwave when ready to drink for the evening, stir a few seconds...it dissolves instantly, and leaves a transparent color it dissolves so well, then stir in around 160mg harmine fb and 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine freebase, add around 100mg of 100% pure vitamin C powder so the freebase harmalas can dissolve, stir a bit, then drink all at once as the Shaman's do for the most powerful journey.

8] 12 reasons why you should always include pure THH or tetrahydroharmine in your Ayahuasca:

Personal note: I may be a long term chemist, but I developed a method (page 1) many years ago so that anyone can make tetrahydroharmine at home. I went into a trance state after a death and received the information from a divine source on how to do this, as I was stuck at one point for weeks on end with no solution. No fancy chemicals or equipment needed like TIHKAL THH Synthesis. Due to the hundreds of Spiritual centers in South America needing these plants, Caapi is increasingly being harder to find. You can do this with normal coffee filters and cotton ball stuffed in a funnel. Tetrahydroharmine (THH): she is as valuable as mescaline, can't do without her. Diamondlike shimmering in her beauty.

In brews analyzed by the UDV, Santo Daime and Shuar Indian, THH levels were at the same high levels of harmine in the plant. Somehow, over their day's long cooking process perhaps using vitamin C (hydrogen doner) in the cooking, the THH would attain levels found as harmine in the plants. Harmaline levels often found zero but always very low (0 to 30mg levels) in a typical brew. Just google tetrahydroharmine wikipedia and read the studies attached at bottom.

1. Post #12 of this paper: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. TIHKAL THH entry also achieved 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted. Be-ware cheap China made THH as a handful of people have reported it does not glow blue under blacklight, but green, indicating the process was not carried out to completion, harmaline contamination, incomplete synthesis. I recommend making your own or quality sources.

1. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D:
Quote:

Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.



In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.

2. She is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine. She is the 2nd highest alkaloid in Caapi. She has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, she is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline, few people have used her over 100mg. I have seen the receptorome chart for THH vs. mescaline. She not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors A1-A3 associated with beauty and aesthetic enhancement, just like mescaline. Beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included, she is diamondlike shimmering in her beauty.

Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. The combo of THH + DMT is like listening to music on high-dose cactus tea, heavenly.

8. This pure THH at 300mg all by herself is extremely visual, she's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally.

9. The entry in TIHKAL for 300mg THH is completely wrong, where the unexperienced person compares it to the effects of 100mg harmaline. She is nothing at all like harmaline, and like 69ron once said about the person's comment in TIHKAL, he or she would not be able to tell their ass from their elbow. I agree, what complete nonsense.

10. professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Quote:

Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.




11. Trips (from here on 12/2/2011):
Quote:

As to how the THH altered the experience -> I find rue extract+DMT to be very similar to mushrooms. I found the THH added to the rue+DMT to shift the experience to a state much closer to that provided by LSD. It was more clear, more energetic, more focused, and when confusion struck it was definitely more "acid-like".




Espiridion:
Quote:

Tetrahydroharmine is much more like mescaline.




The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence, a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain.

At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of teaching closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged way-beyond 4k visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine:

12. Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher):
Quote:

The vine carries the content of the message, the teaching, and the insight. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts.




Tetrahydroharmine or THH ranks very high on the "periodic psychedelic table" among all the known entheogens for inducing realistic way beyond 4k monochrome teaching visions for hours...adding even small amounts of DMT brightens and colorizes the visions, example: reptiles, birds & animals such as serpents/snakes/toucans/parrots/jaguars with patterning show their respective associated colors. Many times I have viewed multi-colored serpents, birds & jaguars several times over hour long CEV periods, serpents are the manifest spirit of Ayahuasca.

Read study reference 1 below, and you will see that Vegetal Ayahuasca (made by the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) contains zero to extremely low amounts of harmaline (less than 15mg), but contains as much tetrahydroharmine as it does harmine. All of the Santo Daime Ayahuasca contained zero mg of harmaline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydroharmine

Page 154 of "Various Alkaloid Profiles in Decoctions of Banisteriopsis Caapi, 2005":
Quote:

The average ratio of THH to harmine in the vegetals (traditional brews) was consistently near 1:1, from all sources (table 2), while this ratio was closer to 1:5 in a large survey of source plant material. It is presently unclear whether harmaline is being chemically reduced to THH during the acidic process of decoction.




Callaway wrote in "The Entheogen Review":
Quote:

However, in a broad (as yet unpublished) survey of Banisteriopsis caapi, Psychotria viridis and subsequent teas, which included phytochemical analyses of all, plus subjective ratings of the teas, a strong correlation was found with teas that contained high amounts of THH and not DMT! This rating was from a large body of experienced users (regular União do Vegetal members who had consumed ayahuasca for 10+ years). In short, yes, there seems to be important activity from THH.




Full subject with 50,000 views:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1144348&#post1144348
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1144348&#post1144348


Edited by tregar (04/21/22 09:27 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27710365 - 03/27/22 10:02 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Go to mycotopia to view all 6 studies, post #45:

https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/page-3#entry1499984
hxxps://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/page-3#entry1499984

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1144573&#post1144573
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1144573&#post1144573

Note: Full instructions for one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca on post #381 and #382 with 6 pics at dmt nexus (50,000 views). [150mg HPBCD DMT + 250mg THH + 170mg harmine in 30ml hot water] +5 shulgin level trip report, most powerful experience I've had in years. Love Love Love

Shroombee...Thirdwave.co seems to be correct in their tolerance assessment, you are not going to believe this, but 4 hours after I had the phenomenal experience using the one-shot HPBCD DMT (150mg HPBCD DMT, 250mg THH, 170mg harmine) all dissolved into 30ml hot water and drank at once (described in post #381 and #382 with 6 pics)....I wanted to test the thirdwave.co tolerance model, so took 3 hits of LSD and it worked as expected--super strong LSD experience the rest of the night, the Ayahuasca took absolutely nothing away from the later LSD experience that night, same potency as I've always expected from 3 hits, so I do believe the assessment by thirdwave is correct. I myself was shocked there was zero tolerance to the LSD later at night. Shocked
---------------------------------------------------------------
Pharmacology explanation: how HPBCD complexed to DMT increases absorption many factors into intestinal tissues:

Shroombee, this is how HPBCD when complexed to DMT (only takes 2 minutes) dramatically increases the absorption of the DMT into the intestinal tissues in my experiences:

HPBCD is a polysaccharide with six glucose units derived from the enzymatic degradation of cornstarch, when complexed to freebase dmt, it makes the DMT water soluble as well as increasing it's bioavailability similar to the way psychotria does this, increasing absorption by many factors into the intestinal tissues. Hawaiian psychotria is so potent because it contains polysaccharides in the leaf which bind to the DMT and enhance absorption severalfold into the intestinal tissues.

Downwardsfromzero was instrumental in helping to discover this, and I cannot thank him enough. I myself have observed these long winding stringy, sticky polysaccharides in the brewed down and heavily filtered psychotria tea by letting it sit in fridge several days, they can be seen all throughout the 8oz tea. They cannot be removed by any amount of filtering but travel with the psychotria dissolved DMT, these polysaccharides are then very visible.

5 examples from the scientific literature on how polysaccharides increase drug absorption:

--> Example 1: Aloe vera gel contains Acemannan, a major polysaccharide component of aloe vera.

Page 17 of 46, from attached 1st study "Pharmaceutics drug bioavailability enhancing agents, 2019":
Quote:

AVG (aloe vera gel) due to containing polysaccharides caused a 3.7 fold and avwl (aloe vera whole leaf) a 2-fold increase in the bioavailability of vitamin C in comparison to the control (ie, vitamin C administered in water). Both aloe products caused a statistically significant increase in the baseline levels of vitamin E at 6 and 8 hours post administration.




All of the Aloe materials decreased the TEER of the Caco-2 cell monolayers indicating opening of tight junctions.

--> Example 2: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent, see pic with study below. Complex prepared by kneading method in a 1:1 molar ratio, same way I prepare my HPBCD DMT in only 2 minutes, see full instructions on post #382.

--> Example 3: see 2nd paragraph, HPBCD increase drug permeability into intestinal tissues by solubilization of membrane lipids through inclusion complexation with cyclodextrins and the ability of cyclodextrins to cause perturbation of membrane integrity. However, unlike detergents, cyclodextrins solubilize membrane components without entering into the membrane, therefore the perturbing effects of cyclodextrins are mild and reversible.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: Page 4 of 16:
Quote:

Cyclodextrins can be used to reduce or prevent gastrointestinal and ocular irritation, reduce or eliminate unpleasant smells or tastes.



HPBCD helps mask the taste of the DMT when used orally in a hot tea & reduce or eliminate any intestinal irritation by the DMT.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017:, under "Kinetics":
Quote:

Cyclodextrins at high doses can increase drug permeability by direct action on mucosal or intestinal membranes and enhance drug absorption and/or bioavailability. These effects are possibly caused by solubilization of membrane lipids through inclusion complexation with cyclodextrins and the ability of cyclodextrins to cause perturbation of membrane integrity. However, unlike detergents, cyclodextrins solubilize membrane components without entering into the membrane, therefore the perturbing effects of cyclodextrins are mild and reversible [7].Cyclodextrins are absorbed poorly via mucosal membranes.




"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: page 5 of 16 under "Oral products, Kinetics":
Quote:

The oral bioavailability of cyclodextrins is very low in adult animals and humans (0.1–3%), except for RM-β-CD, which has a bioavailability of 12% in rats. Because of their bulky and hydrophilic nature only insignificant amounts of cyclodextrins are absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract by passive diffusion [33, 27].




--> Example 4: Real world experiences: Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 120mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least two dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.

After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! All of the experiences were +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt, or dmt salts.

However, at this point, I have noticed that ALL the dried Hawaiian psychotria is extinct, and is no longer available. But no worries, HPBCD complexed DMT feels the void very well, and is way more potent than plain DMT which is absorbed poorly via the oral or sublingual route. Studies show HPBCD when complexed to poorly absorbed drugs like DMT improve drug penetration many factors when used sublingually or orally.

--> Example 5: see attached document from Sigma Aldrich which shows how HPBCD increases drug penetration for 68 drugs.

pic 1: use a 1:1 molar ratio of HPBCD to host drug, see complete 2 minute instructions for one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca on post #381 and #382 with pics.
pic 2: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.

attachment 1: Pharmaceutics drug bioavailability enhancing agents, 2019. Aloe vera gel polysaccharides caused a 3.7 fold and avwl (aloe vera whole leaf) a 2-fold increase in the bioavailability of vitamin C in comparison to the control, 2019.
attachment 2: Aloe vera gel and whole leaf extract functional and versatile excipients for drug delivery (5)
attachment 3: Sigma Aldrich drug penetration enhancement table using HPBCD complexation for 68 drugs.
attachment 4: questions-answers-cyclodextrins-used-excipients-medicinal-products-human-use_en.pdf
attachment 5: Thermodynamic properties of hydroxypropyl Beta cyclodextrin and guest interaction, a survey of recent studies, 2021.


Edited by tregar (04/21/22 09:47 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27712977 - 03/29/22 02:07 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

In closing, here is the full journey report (150mg HPBCD DMT + 170mg harmine fb + 250mg THH or tetrahydroharmine freebase) all dissolved into 30ml (one-shot) hot water, added 150mg pure vitamin C powder so the freebase harmalas could dissolve, although only 100mg is needed:

Update 4pm 3/21/2022: I am writing this 1.5 hour later: took the 1-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca (150mg HPBCD DMT, 250mg THH, 170mg harmine all dissolved into 30ml hot water) and it worked incredibly well! Phenomenal strength, for the 1st 10 minutes I held on tight as it felt like I was handling a high speed sports car, ego disintegrating & boundaries shattered.

For the first 10 minutes, open or closed eyes, didn't matter, saw same thing: colored neon geometrics on the surface of everything. Felt whole body high tryptamine frequency combined with the THH frequency vibration = amazing amplified whole body frequency, like being tuned into another spirit manifested alien world. It felt like a colored shining tractor beam was going to surround me and take me away, very 3-dimensional.

It was so powerful for 10 minutes, I had to close my eyes to find a happy place. Felt like the most powerful of my past Hawaiian psychotria experiences (40 grams leaf) with Caapi which I only ventured at this dose around 5 times (and all by accident, never meant to, as it is so strong) out of my 70 total Hawaiian psychotria journeys (most 30-35 grams), this was no different, exactly the same as the potent leaf, at the very high end for advanced Ayahuasca use.

Dennis Mckenna once said about one of his Ayahuasca journeys, that for the first 10 minutes it felt like he was riding an elevator to the top floor at high speed, this is how it felt for me, or like handling a high speed sports car.

...then it became at 10 minutes extremely enjoyable, infinite open eyed beauty, incredible closed eye morphing & dancing geometrics in wild neon purple, pink & green that lasted for another 35 minutes with closed eyes. With open eyes, saturated neon colors and neon colored rainbow reflections surrounded everything which glowed intensely with an inner divine light, music playing was just heavenly, incredible music enhancement, +5 Shulgin level experience, most powerful experience I've had in years....very strong for 1.5 hour, when it decreased in strength several notches.

I could not believe the open eyed beauty--phenomenal...this is my preferred method. WOW, unbelievable experience, high euphoria, deep headspace, profound spiritual insights, extremely visual, had the power of 40g Hawaiian psychotria to the highest degree. I experienced zero nausea, zero dizziness (so long as I keep my harmine dose below 200mg). Love, Love, Love.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27715870 - 03/31/22 09:15 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I tried the sublingual HPBCD dmt with thh and harmine finally and it worked ok, just wasn't  quite strong enough so I ended up smoking a bowl of changa about an hour in. Not sure how long the trip lasted because once I smoked the changa I zoned off into my trip and the next thing I know it was morning time and waking up wondering why I feel asleep lol.

My next trip I'm going to try the One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca and see if it's any better for me.

DMT is kind of strange. I was reading your post over on the nexus about the tolerance issue you had taking it sublingual. I've also noticed that I got one too but so far its only been with smoking changa. In the past I could smoke it and get close to blasting off from a hit or 2, now it seems the trips are getting weaker even if I wait several weeks and this is why I wanted to try the sublingual way. Hopefully it works better trying the One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca method.

I'm looking for that ++5 trip as I've only had one so far out of my 20 years psychedelic  experiences.


--------------------


....Synthesized love story or is it just a crazy dream....


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Ganja420Boy]
    #27719970 - 04/03/22 07:50 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Now this is why I say DMT is a weird chemical.

Last night I did the shot with 150mg HPBCD dmt 250mg thh and a bunch of harmaline, cant quite remember how much but it was plenty and I actually got less effect than when I took 90mg HPBCD  dmt sublingual :shrug:

This is also actually the 2nd time trying oral dmt and both time was a fail. It was last year I took around 100mg dmt acetate and  about 10g Syrian tea with minimal effects.

I think next time I'm going  to try brewing 100g of acacia bark and some banisteriopsis caapi and see how that works out.


--------------------


....Synthesized love story or is it just a crazy dream....


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Ganja420Boy]
    #27721224 - 04/04/22 06:03 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

What if you took the harmaline before the DMT complex? Perhaps 15 minutes earlier would allow the maoi properties of the harmala to protect the DMT in the gut? Just an idea.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27721289 - 04/04/22 07:05 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Some people prefer doing that.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: s240779] * 1
    #27721769 - 04/05/22 06:35 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

idontknow1 said:
Quote:

What if you took the harmaline before the DMT complex? Perhaps 15 minutes earlier would allow the maoi properties of the harmala to protect the DMT in the gut? Just an idea.


Trust me, I've taken it that way before (15 minutes before), and it is no where near as potent as when you take it all at the same time, just as the Shaman's do for the most powerful experience. I've tested that before, it's actually weaker. 69ron was the one who posted to take it all at once as real Ayahausca, he was so right. The most powerful inhibition takes place immediately when all is being absorbed at same time, super strong.

I had an experience last night 4-4-2022 that was extremely powerful and zero nausea or dizziness again, made sure my stomach was empty again by waiting 4 hours after lite keto meal, it was a bit easier to handle in the beginning, as I used 300mg THH freebase + 110mg HPBCD DMT + 160mg harmine freebase all dissolved at once in 30ml hot water with 100mg pure vitamin C powder added so that the freebase harmalas would dissolve.

The 110mg DMT freebase was complexed to x7 or 770mg plain HPBCD in 12 drops boiling hot water from a coffee mug, mixed and mashed it all hard for 2 minutes using muscles...then held a lighter one inch away from under the spoon to heat up spoon for 20 seconds, then pulled flame away, this seems to aid dissolution or dissolving after heating up a slight bit, mixed the contents 10 seconds more before using, then dunked spoon into the one shot 125 F degree microwaved water when I was ready to use, it dissolved instantly leaving a transparent color...then added harmalas and 100mg vitamin C powder to dissolve harmalas of course. For 110mg dmt, be sure to use x8 or 880mg if using the more common 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio of guest freebase drug to HPBCD, trapping it inside like a tornado. 

Pure euphoria & bliss for 1.5 hour, amazing visuals closed and open eye, at 300mg I get more of the neon colored geometrics which then progressed into real Ayahuasca visions, and the DMT colorized the THH visions, saw colored Ayahuasca visions of Mayan pyramids and jungle to the max, deep inside the jungle, where I was walking inside it. Beautiful multi-colored feathered serpents seen, appearing like stained glass art rendering, then intertwined like DNA a second time appearing like flying dragons. Open eye neon colored rainbow reflections colored everything again which glowed brightly with an inner spiritual light. Actresses on TV looked like dazzling, glowing super colorful cartoon versions of themselves, just like with high dose cactus tea, very deep head space, music enhancement so very powerful, deeply spiritual experience.

If you want to re-dose a second one-shot Ayahuasca 2 hours later: since the tetrahydroharmine has a half life of 10.5 hours with peak at 5.25 hours, you never have to re-dose more THH for the evening, only more harmine (120mg-170mg) + more dmt (60mg-150mg) into another hot one-shot. Since the harmine has a half-life of 1 to 3 hours, you can often just use 120mg harmine for the 2nd dose, as the 1st harmine dose is still somewhat (around 1/3rd) active 2 hours later. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Go to bottom of page 8 of this thread for full instructions and 6 pics
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Pic: Top left and right: the 2 visions looked similar to the Aztec and Mayan plumed serpent Quetzalcoatl, bottom left: the cosmic serpent: DNA and the origins of knowledge Ayahuasca vision painting by Pablo Amaringo.



Edited by tregar (04/07/22 12:56 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27722346 - 04/05/22 05:42 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

This may be a bit of a tangent, as it's not really related to the HPBCD Complexed DMT, but I'm curious if anybody has had any similar observations with harmalas

When I take harmalas, I generally take 150mg full spectrum hcl (harmine and harmaline) orally.

Within about an hour and a half I begin having rather distinct visuals. Looking at any un-textured surface causes a dance of radiating green squiggles in the shape of whatever I'm thinking about. I can make the squiggles turn in to people and dance, I can pretty much completely control the OEVs that I get on oral harmalas.

Additionally, I begin to experience auditory "hallucinations" where I can hear things I normally wouldn't. I'm not sure if they're hallucinations or not, because the sounds I'm hearing are definitely real, they just manifest differently. For example, I can hear a kind of "grumbling hum" from every running motor in ear shot of me. Fans, toy cars, anything with an electric motor. It's very weird and sometimes causes anxiety.

The above is a consistent experience for me, I always get it with oral harmalas. However, if I take harmalas sublingually I don't seem to get any of this. I've done 30mg of sublingual hcl full spectrum and got no psychedelic effects (though perhaps still Mao inhibition)

I'm wondering if anybody else has had this experience, where the effects are different sublingually.


--------------------


Edited by Jacubey (04/05/22 05:47 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Jacubey]
    #27733057 - 04/13/22 03:29 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I agree with L-dreamer in that the sublingual method has definite advantages over the oral.

Today, took 300mg THH 45 minutes before, then 120mg sublingual HPBCD DMT or 120mg dmt complexed to x7 or 840mg HPBCD in 12 drops boiling hot water from a coffee mug, all mashed and mixed for 2 minutes hard using muscles on spoon using the end of another spoon...this is how scientist prepare these complexes by kneading...then held lighter 1 inch away for 20 seconds, this aids dissolution by heating up a slight bit, just as bodybuilder chemist Patrick Arnold recommended for sublingual pro-hormone mixing, then mixed for 10 more seconds...

placed under tongue along with 30mg harmine freebase, it all absorbed in 15 minutes...only some remnants of the harmine could be seen in the saliva at this point...phenomenal sublingual experience....it's been a month since I've used it this way.

This always seems to avoid all the terrifying aspects of oral Ayahuasca, 100% no nausea, no triggering of brain nausea alarms, reaches the brain directly from the sublingual mucosa, very potent....a psychonaut's favorite.

music just incredibly heavenly for 2 hours...blown away, phenomenal open eyed beauty....and zero nausea or dizziness or anxiety, no terrifying oral Ayahuasca vibes. Amazing experience. Light colored geometrics with closed eyes, dancing and morphing, incredible open eyed beauty, magnificent experience, I will surely continue to use it sublingually much more often, very beautiful...overwhelming spiritual joy.

So blown away by the music enhancement..WOW..and zero anxiety.


Edited by tregar (04/13/22 07:43 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27733790 - 04/14/22 02:32 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Next experiment for next week, will try one shot Ayahuasca again: 140mg harmine fb + 300mg THH fb + 110mg HPBCD DMT. I want to see how low I can go on the harmine for activating the DMT....I have a feeling this will give me more of what I am looking for...extremely minimal on the harmine = barely able to perceive any bodily side effects, I've done this way in the past, and it was a powerful experience, crystal clear clarity like mescaline but no perceived body side effects. Will post results next week.

1.5mg/kg harmine freebase = threshold to effect sufficient MAO-inhibition, as to render DMT active orally. As I weigh 90kg, this is approximately 140mg for myself.

Top Pic: Jonathan Ott's Ayahuasca analogues strength table



Edited by tregar (04/15/22 07:13 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27739795 - 04/18/22 07:19 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)
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Personal kind recommendation: can't stress enough how important it is to separate the harmine out from the harmaline. Harmaline can make up as much as 70% of a crude rue extract in my experience. Harmaline is nauseating and sedating, and when harmaline is combined with harmine, the harmaline side effects are amplified. Not only that, but it causes "re-bound insomnia" days later as it imparts the opposite effect once the drug wears off, making it difficult to fall asleep around a day after the experience. I avoid harmaline like the plague, even tiny amounts of it around 20mg cause strong nauseating feelings coupled with sedation, I make sure there is zero amount of it in my Ayahuasca.

I once went on a field trip with a friend, and took 150mg harmine + 30mg harmaline just to experience it, and my friend had to pull over twice as I was so dizzy and had to puke on the side of the road from the strong nausea. The nausea lasted many hours, and made for a rough afternoon. Harmaline has a long half-life of around 3 hours.

Just as Jonathan Ott remarks in all of his 30 experiences, no nausea when using only pure harmine. I also experience no nausea or dizziness using only harmine at doses around 170mg or less. I will be using only 140mg pure harmine for my next experience.

I recommend you take just 120mg of harmine freebase on it's own and notice how differently you may react as a control experiment, just as Ott did:

Take just 140mg of pure harmine on it's own if you weigh 90kg like me, or 120mg if you weigh 80kg like Ott, and just as Jonathan Ott saids on page 60 of Ayahuasca Analogues:
Quote:

I conducted a control experiment 14 with 120mg of harmine freebase with no DMT. This provoked no entheogenic effects or stimulation, just a slightly preceptible harmel-type sedation which was still evident several hours later, but sufficiently mild as to make me forget I had ingested anything. This, then, was convincing proof that a barely-perceptible sedative dose of harmine was indeed capable of effecting sufficient MAO-inhibition to render DMT, in the quantities present in Ayahuasca potions, entheogenic by the oral route of administration.

Experiment 6: 120mg harmine freebase was taken along with 30mg of DMT freebase. This time, there were distinct but threshold-level, entheogenic effects of DMT commencing 1:10 after ingestion, building rapidly to a peak at 1:15; holding a plateau until 2:00; descending to baseling level by 3:00. There were vivid colored patterns with eyes opened or closed, euphoric exhilaration and general stimulation. I could thus say that the threshold level for oral DMT in Ayahuasca was around 0.38mg/kg.




Jonathan Ott, "The Internationalization of Ayahuasca", page 108:
Quote:

There is an average of 160mg harmine per dose in Caapi potions. In the course of some three dozen psychonautic bioassays (self-experiments) with crystalline samples of DMT and harmine (which I myself had isolated from appropriate plants), we substantiated an verified the theory of the "ayahuasca-effect," that doses as low as 120mg (below the average amount found in analyzed doses of the potions) could render minuscule doses of DMT psychoactive and visionary (between 25 and 30mg).




Jonathan Ott did not know about the importance of tetrahydroharmine (feminine teaching spirit) in Ayahuasca during his time period, as she is the 2nd largest ingredient, and 12 reasons why she is important on post #382, and why I always include very pure THH with each and every journey.

Read study reference 1 below, and you will see that Vegetal Ayahuasca (made by the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) contains zero to extremely low amounts of harmaline (less than 15mg), but contains as much tetrahydroharmine as it does harmine. All of the Santo Daime Ayahuasca contained zero mg of harmaline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydroharmine

Page 154 of "Various Alkaloid Profiles in Decoctions of Banisteriopsis Caapi, 2005":
Quote:

The average ratio of THH to harmine in the vegetals (traditional brews) was consistently near 1:1, from all sources (table 2), while this ratio was closer to 1:5 in a large survey of source plant material. It is presently unclear whether harmaline is being chemically reduced to THH during the acidic process of decoction.




Callaway wrote in "The Entheogen Review":
Quote:

However, in a broad (as yet unpublished) survey of Banisteriopsis caapi, Psychotria viridis and subsequent teas, which included phytochemical analyses of all, plus subjective ratings of the teas, a strong correlation was found with teas that contained high amounts of THH and not DMT! This rating was from a large body of experienced users (regular União do Vegetal members who had consumed ayahuasca for 10+ years). In short, yes, there seems to be important activity from THH.




attached: "Various Alkaloid Profiles in Decoctions of Banisteriopsis Caapi" by JC Callaway, Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, June 2005.


Edited by tregar (04/21/22 08:23 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27739800 - 04/18/22 07:21 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tregar said:
Personal kind recommendation: can't stress enough how important it is to separate the harmine out from the harmaline. Harmaline can make up as much as 70% of a crude rue extract in my experience. Harmaline is nauseating and sedating, and when harmaline is combined with harmine, the harmaline side effects are amplified. Not only that, ...




I've heard that before.

--
Caapi contains Harmine and Tetrahydroharmine and as such feels MUCH smoother + cleaner + less disorienting then Rue which contains high amounts of Harmaline.

Harmaline is what you want to avoid. Caapi contains little to know Harmaline while Rue contains large amounts of harmaline.

CosmicLion  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12660421#12660421
--

--
ayahuasca with rue feels alot more rough than with caapi.
--
Private message sent to me.

--
I think there are quite some differences between taking dmt with Syrian Rue and taking dmt with Banisteriopsis Caapi (=Ayahuasca)

The only time I had an effective dose of oral dmt was when I combined it with 5g of Syrian Rue and it produced an effect really much apart from what I read about ayahuasca. My visuals were almost all black and white (in some kind of like straight from a vampire movie). I had once before taken mushrooms with Syrian Rue which had brought me into a similar dark realm. I am pretty sure the vine (=ayahuasca, which is the name of the original maoi!) will produce a quite different effect.
--
tryptonaut  http://www.psychonaut.com/ayahuasca-dmt/28295-would-prescription-maois-substitute.html#post412754


--
i've used caapi and rue as an MAOI and chaliponga, chacruna and mimosa as  DMT sources.

caapi is far superior in my opinion. you can keep adding more vine and get a deeper experience (and a stronger purge)  whereas rue get really unpleasant if you take too much, with rue its a fine line between full MAOI inhibition and purging to early and having a dud experience.

your milage may vary but rue is less loving and guiding than the vine but its more easy going.....
--
divinebovine  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20913390#20913390


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: s240779]
    #27740852 - 04/18/22 07:40 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Subject also found here, page 20 (53,000 views):

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1147537&#post1147537
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1147537&#post1147537

I agree with L-dreamer in that the subingual route has definite advantages over the oral. Like you said "in and out in an hour" beautiful experience...and it's easy to re-dose in case you want to an hour and a half later.

Tonight, I took 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before, then 140mg dmt freebase complexed to x7 or 980mg HPBCD in 12 drops boiling hot water from a coffee mug, mixed and mashed it well using muscles for 2 minutes on a spoon using the end of another spoon, held lighter 1 inch away for 20 seconds to heat up slightly, then mixed 10 more seconds, placed under tongue for 15 minutes along with 30mg complexed HPBCD harmine freebase....there was no brown harmine remnants seen in the saliva spit out after 15 minutes...it all dissolved along with the HPBCD DMT. Don't be afraid to use high doses of DMT, extremely visual and very trippy.

--> To complex the harmine freebase, use x6 HPBCD. So for the 30mg harmine fb, added x 6 or 180mg HPBCD on a spoon along with the 30mg harmine, mixed and mashed it well for 2 minutes on a spoon with end of another spoon along with 4 drops boiling hot water from a nearby microwaved coffee mug...this REALLY helps the harmine dissolve super fast under the tongue, makes it very water soluble and improves penetration into the sublingual mucosa immensely...I have noticed complexing the harmine, there is no traces of the harmine left after 15 minutes dissolving under tongue....MUCH BETTER than using the freebase harmine under tongue, which dissolves poorly. It is so worth doing it this way.

...unbelievable experience, this totally 100% always avoids any nausea or dizziness or weirdness...as there is something about dmt moving through the stomach that makes it eerily weird.

This was fantastic! super incredible open eyed beauty, WOW! eyes closed for 30 minutes, incredible neon colored geometrics that slowly danced and evolved into other wild kaleidoscopic geometrics...so wild....loved it so much I kept my eyes closed for much of the experience to watch. I haven't seen geometrics this wild in ages. I strongly felt the presence of Mother Ayahausca the whole time, and I felt her guiding the experience in a divine meaningful way. In the corner of all the geometrics, I saw a female guide, heavenly in appearance overlooking the morphing geometries. I was astonished. Very deep head space, profound spiritual insights.

I had my headphones on the music was incredible! WOW...best experience ever...100% no nausea, no weirdness or terrifying vibes like oral Ayahausca can have in the beginning...

I will be using this method from now on every week! love it. My tolerance to this method has gone away...I simply increased my harmine dose from 20mg to 30mg under tongue at same time, it works to overcome tolerance.

I had a similar sublingual HPBCD DMT experience 1 week earlier, and it was also very powerful. I am very happy that I can have these sublingual Ayahuasca experiences weekly now again, working powerfully each and every time. A good complexed HPBCD harmine dose (30mg) is the key to this working effectively, always take at the exact same time under tongue as the HPBCD DMT. 30mg sublingual harmine has the power of x6 or 180mg oral harmine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My very first April 2021 sublingual trip report that started all this:

Note: Be sure to always take from 150 to 300mg very pure THH orally around 45 minutes before. You can put it in an empty capsule. Normal Caapi based Ayahuasca always contains an average of 150mg THH per cup. When 2 cups are drank for the evening by more advanced members of the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian, or advanced members like myself, people are consuming 300mg of THH. Refer to post #382 for 12 reasons why you should always include THH with your Ayahuasca.

No need to ever re-dose more of the oral tetrahydroharmine or THH as she (feminine teaching spirit) has a half life of 10.5 hours with peak at 5.25 hours

Always complex the 30mg harmine freebase to HPBCD as well, this makes it very water soluble and increases penetration into the sublingual mucosa under the tongue by many factors, and also completely masks the harmine freebase taste. I've tested how fast it can absorb under the tongue by itself, only 5 minutes it works so well. But always take it at the exact same time as the HPBCD DMT under tongue, mix it into the HPBCD DMT spoon and take it all at once under tongue for the most powerful experience, just as the Shaman's do: all at once.

Depending on total HPBCD harmine + HPBCD dmt dosage, it can all absorb in as little as 10 minutes, for higher doses I give it 15 minutes under tongue, it all completely absorbs. Spit out all the built up saliva at the end of 15 minutes into a cup, all of the sublingual Ayahuasca ingredients should have easily absorbed by then....but if at any point during the 15 minutes you build up too much saliva, and you feel it become too uncomfortable, simply tilt head forward and gently relieve any built up saliva but always keep tongue pressed down to hold any remaining ingredients in the sublingual mucosa under tongue at all times.

There is a mild to moderate sting felt while you do this, and it doesn't bother me at all, as it is so worth enduring for 10 to 15 minutes for the phenomenal spiritually divine experience that begins 22 minutes after you begin all this (the sublingual experience begins in 1/2 the time or 22 minutes instead of 45 minutes like the oral) but still lasts 1.5 hour with super long afterglow. You can re-dose up to two more times, and it continues to work just as strong as the first dose, so long as you continue to use 30mg harmine along with each re-dose of dmt.

--> On my very first 300mg oral THH taken 45 minutes earlier + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT fb (60mg DMT complexed to x7 or 420mg HPBCD in 6 drops boiling hot water) combined with sublingual 30mg HPBCD harmine fb (30mg harmine complxed to x6 or 180mg HPBCD in 4 drops boiling hot water) held under tongue at exact same time journey with 2 sublingual re-doses at each 1.5 hour mark (had not used dmt in several months):

...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the sublingual DMT/harmine and oral THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw that first night.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.

They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind.

Recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world & "BAM, Builders of the Ancient Mysteries".

Also, see "Alien gods" 2019 on amazon prime, another great video all about this winged serpent, giver of knowledge, culture, music, art, civilization to mankind, first appearing around some 5000 years before Christ. The snake was equated to wisdom & healing, even in the Bible.

Return of the Serpent & of Eden:

https://earthmedicine2015.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/return-of-the-serpent-of-eden/
hxxps://earthmedicine2015.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/return-of-the-serpent-of-eden/

Reference: Full instructions for sublingual or the one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca (your choice):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon (60mg for beginners)
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for DMT doses of 90mg or below, use 12 drops of boiling hot water to mix DMT doses of 90mg or more (such as 90 to 100mg). Use 14 drops of hot water for 150mg DMT. 60mg DMT = +3 Shulgin level strength, 90mg DMT = +4 Shulgin level life strength. 150mg DMT = +5 Shulgin level life changing experience.
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, scrape & mix everything back and forth hard using your muscles. This is how scientist pre-pare these complexes by kneading.
6) Hold a lighter one inch away from under the spoon to heat up spoon for 20 seconds, then pull flame away, this seems to aid dissolution or dissolving after heating up a slight bit, mix the contents 10 seconds more before using, just as bodybuilder chemist Patrick Arnold recommended for sublingual pro-hormone mixing. See pics.

7) --> For one-shot Ayahuasca: Refer to post #381 above with 6 pics, simply dunk spoon of HPBCD DMT into 30ml (one-shot) of 125 degree F water from microwave when ready to drink for the evening, stir a few seconds...it dissolves instantly, and leaves a transparent color it dissolves so well, then stir in around 160mg harmine fb and 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine freebase, add around 100mg of 100% pure vitamin C powder so the freebase harmalas can dissolve, stir a bit, then drink all at once as the Shaman's do for the most powerful journey.

8] --> For sublingual Ayahuasca: Place 30mg harmine freebase on a spoon, cover it with x6 or 180mg HPBCD to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio of harmine to HPBCD. Use x7 or 210mg HPBCD if using the more common 2-hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin. Add 4 drops of boiling hot water from a nearby microwaved coffee mug, mix and mash it all together hard using muscles for 2 minutes on the spoon using the end of another spoon.

--> General rule for sublingual use: use 1 drop of boiling hot water from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for each 10mg of dmt freebase, or each 10mg of harmine freebase you are mixing and mashing on a spoon using the end of another spoon. Example: Use 6 drops of very hot water from a medicine pipette to mix 60mg of dmt with x7 or 420mg HPBCD on a spoon using the end of another spoon. Use 9 drops of very hot water to mix 90mg of dmt with x7 or 630mg HPBCD. Use 3 drops of very hot water to mix 30mg harmine with x6 or 180mg HPBCD. When preparing for oral one-shot Ayahuasca use, I tend to use slightly more drops as stated in step #4 above.

Then mix this HPBCD complexed harmine into your HPBCD complexed DMT...then place bottom of tongue onto the spoon of harmine and DMT complex, it will all adhere, as HPBCD forms sticky complexes....be sure you took 150mg to 300mg of pure THH orally 45 minutes before....hold this harmine/dmt HPBCD sublingual complex under tongue for 10 to 15 minutes depending on dosage, it will all absorb, experience begins in 22 minutes once you start all this, or 1/2 the time of an oral dosage...but the experience still lasts 1.5 hour or the same time as an oral dosage with super long afterglow. You can re-dose up to two more times and each dose will be as strong as the first for a 4.5 hour total long experience. Remember: sublingual 30mg HPBCD harmine has the power of x6 or 180mg oral harmine, it works very well to activate the DMT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pic1: top to bottom: 300mg pure THH, 30mg harmine freebase, 180mg HPBCD to complex the harmine, 140mg dmt freebase, 980mg HPBCD to complex the dmt.

Pic2: 30mg harmine freebase complexed to 180mg HPBCD in 4 drops boiling hot water and 140mg dmt freebase complexed to 980mg HPBCD in 12 drops boiling hot water.

Artwork courtesy of top: Chuck Sperry, bottom top: F. Scott Hess "art studio drama", bottom left: F. Scott Hess "Allegory of Mud", bottom right: Jamie Adams "Jeannie for Narina"





Edited by tregar (04/21/22 03:22 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27742144 - 04/19/22 02:28 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Got my harmaline and complex and DMT.

I'm definitely considering trying this on my next day off.

Never tried oral DMT/Aya, so this will be really interesting.


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MIND OVER MATTER

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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: TrancedOutBrah] * 1
    #27742862 - 04/19/22 10:17 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I am considering trying this with my friends soon and will report back.

Is it necessary to complex the harmine with hpbcd?  Does it increase absorbtion that significantly over something like a hcl salt or fumarate salt (if that's even possible with harmine)

Also I'm now suspect of my thh supply. I read an earlier comment from you saying it should glow bright blue. Well, mine does but only in speckles (no green to speak of though). Seems that my supplier may have cut it with something. I'll follow your process to make my own

Can I use lye in place of ammonium hydroxide?  I imagine the step there is only to separate the freebase from the salt and it should be ok. 

Speaking of this: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1103841#post1103841

This really ought to be made in to its own tek on the dmt nexus wiki. Very simple and easy to follow. Using elemental zinc scared me for a minute though lol


Edited by Jacubey (04/20/22 09:06 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Jacubey] * 1
    #27746379 - 04/22/22 07:30 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Good luck TrancedoutBrah and Jacubey. No you can not use lye, you can find 10% ammonium hydroxide at old mom and pop hardware stores or on-line. Around three dollars a gallon locally.

Yes, the HPBCD complexed DMT or harmine increases absorption by 400% into sublingual or intestinal tissues, as it is a potent polysaccharide. DMT salts do not work sublingually at all, and the HPBCD DMT is many factors more potent than DMT salts. HPBCD DMT is just like using very potent jungle Hawaiian psychotria leaf which contains loads of potent polysaccharides, that's why the leaf is so strong and all-encompassing, just like the HPBCD DMT..


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27746426 - 04/22/22 08:13 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Gotcha. The zinc dust is on its way and I found the janitorial strength 10% ammonium hydroxide/90% water.

In the mean time I am planning on trying hpbcd Complexed harmine and dmt (no thh) this weekend. I'd like to have a personal direct comparison to thh VS no thh with this roa

As an aside, I only had Harmaline HCl on hand and had to freebase it.  Its a very simple process of course, but I neglected to wear gloves when handling the powder during cleanup.  The residue is extremely difficult to get off through normal means (dish soap, hand soap, vinegar, shower, still some remaining) and I assume has been going through skin absorption.  The residue is mostly gone now (2 days later), but I've spent the last 2 days feeling mildly sedated, averse to doing work, and very chatty. I hadn't had a UV lamp til now, and would have never been able to make this association before, though I've likely had the same experience in the past. I will only ever handle these substances with gloves anymore.  Harmaline especially.


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Edited by Jacubey (04/22/22 08:49 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: s240779]
    #27746447 - 04/22/22 08:36 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

You guys might also be interested in 9-methyl-beta-carboline: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27741841


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: s240779] * 1
    #27746676 - 04/22/22 11:48 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

4-24-2022
Thread summarized in 4 pages and continued here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Professor8 said in 2012 here:
Quote:

A while back I read a very good explanation of the different effects of Harmalas that has stuck with me. I believe it was 69ron that said: ‘Harmine is the Coffee of the harmalas & Harmaline is the Weed and when it comes to THH (tetrahydroharmine) you have The Light.'

Whilst very similar in molecular structure, THH has a completely different personality to Harmine & Harmaline. Calling it The Light of the harmalas is very appropriate. IMHO, it is the Holy Grail of The Harmalas. I have found Harmine very, very helpful in Meditation & Yoga. It energises your Light Body and allows you to see your Chakras & Auric fields; very helpful in a biofeedback sorta way.

Personally, Harmaline is too heavy & stony for me but I do respect its power and personality, kinda like a big shaggy & lovable dog.



I'm more in the camp with professor8, unfortunately I have a low nausea threshold, and those who know me know I always avoid anything with even the slightest hint of nausea producing potential personally.

4-22-2002 sublingual Ayahuasca journey tonight:

300mg pure THH taken orally 45 minutes before
30mg HPBCD harmine
150mg HPBCD dmt

Today, I'm taking 300mg THH or tetrahydrohamine 45 minutes before, then 30mg of harmine freebase complexed to x6 or 180mg HPBCD in 3 drops boiling hot water from a nearby microwaved coffee mug, along with 150mg dmt freebase complexed to x7 or 1050mg HPBCD in 12 drops boiling hot water from the mug.

I stirred, mashed and mixed the 30mg harmine along with the 180mg HPBCD for 2 minutes on a spoon using the end of another spoon in the 3 drops hot water, it complexes very fast, it appears to work in only 30 seconds.

Then I stirred, mashed and mixed the 150mg dmt along with the 1050mg HPBCD in 12 drops hot water on a spoon using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, then held lighter 1" away for 20 seconds, then mixed contents 10 more seconds...this really aids the complete dissolution or dissolving of the 2 ingredients. Like a tornado, the dmt is trapped inside the HPBCD cone. This makes it not only very water soluble, but studies show this enhances penetration into the sublingual mucosa under the tongue by up to 400%.

Dr. Narang:
Quote:

"with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal, absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection.



Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:
Quote:

You can't compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual harmine is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.


I use 30mg HPBCD complexed harmine fb sublingually along with the sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT, 30mg sublingual has the power of x6 or 180mg oral harmine.

Then I added the 30mg HPBCD harmine to the spoon of 150mg HPBCD DMT, and mixed it all together, made sure I took 300mg pure THH 45 minutes before, then put the spoon of HPBCD harmine/dmt under tongue, it all adheres as HPBCD forms sticky complexes (like sugar) and held for 15 minutes. 30mg sublingual harmine has the power of x6 or 180mg oral harmine, works really great for activating the DMT.

Update 3pm: I took 300mg THH 45 minutes before, then the harmine/dmt complex held under tongue for 15 minutes...mind blowing experience...with eyes closed for an entire hour I witnessed the most incredible evolving dancing kaleidoscopic geometrics I've ever seen, way beyond anything I've ever seen before, and all incredible neon yellow, pink, green, blue, violet...at some points the geometries evolved into Egyptian cat women and Indian goddesses. I was blow away, I had music playing, mind blowing music enhancement...so heavenly...

with open eyes, incomprehensible beauty everywhere, the movie playing had actresses who looked like glowing, dazzling super colorful cartoon versions of themselves.

This felt like 600mg of mescaline, +5 Shulgin level experience, incredible deep head space and profound spiritual insights.

Best part: zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety. Pure euphoria and bliss. I will continue to use this weekly for the rest of my life.

Pic1: top to bottom: 300mg pure THH to take orally 45 minutes before, 30mg harmine, 180mg HPBCD to complex to the harmine, 150mg dmt, 1050mg HPBCD to complex the dmt.

Pic2: a spoon holding the sublingual 30mg HPBCD complexed harmine along with a spoon holding the 150mg HPBCD dmt. I add the harmine to the dmt spoon, mix it all together, then hold both under tongue at exact same time, just as the Shaman's do for the most powerful experience.

Artwork courtesy of Jillian Evelyn, "Beyond the mold"...she is one of my favorite artists. My grandmother was a lifetime oil painter and taught me to oil paint at an early age, thus my love for art. She had rooms full of art, and even painted dragons on the bedroom wall, and cowboys in the bathroom. Some of her paintings can be seen on page 3, post Professor8 said in 2012 here:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=3






4-24-2022
Thread summarized in 4 pages and continued here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383


Edited by tregar (04/24/22 10:43 AM)


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OfflineJacubey
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27747312 - 04/22/22 07:58 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Did my first experiments with 2hpbcd and harmine tonight.

Wow! It takes so much less water than you expect. Over doing it will make the complex far too liquidy, and will begin to feel like snot/mucus build up in the mouth after a few minutes.

Traegar is not joking when they say "use 1 drop per 10mg of freebase". It may not seem like enough but after some mashing you come out with a sticky/slimy/waxy complex. I got it right on my 4th try. Still have not added any dmt or thh yet.

I struggle with sublingual anything. I seem to salivate far too much

EDIT:

I guess I was wrong. I did not get it right the 4th time. I've adjusted the method a bit, and I am losing a lot less material while making the complexes now. What I am getting now is a sticky coagulated powder it would seem.  It is less liquid than the pictures from traegar above, but it seems easier to administer for me.


Current process:

  • Measure out 1:7 harmine:2hpbcd
  • Place contents in small glass vessel
  • Tilt the glass 45 degrees
  • Gently agitate so the materials gather in a pile where the base and side of the glass meet
  • Set the glass down gently, so the pile stays together
  • Fill 10cc syringe with 1-2ml of boiling water from an electric kettle (I do not have any pipettes handy)
  • Fill the remaining 8-9ml with air. This will serve as a cusion to help get individual drops out
  • Add one drop boiling water per 10mg of freebase material (harmine only in my case), directly on the pile
  • Using a small lab spoon (perhaps even a dab pick), mash the materials for several minutes
  • once the mixture seems homogenous and is appropriately sticky, assume complete and administer sublingually


My hpbcd Complexed harmine:

Edit 2:

Me and my wife (who both tried the complexes) woke up the next morning with strep-throat like symptoms. Very doubtful its related to these experiments; we have a child (he is never present when we try these things), and children are pretty nasty. We probably got it from him. It will put a halt to my experiments temporarily. On the bright side my zinc dust comes in today and I ought to be able to go through with the thh conversion.


Edited by Jacubey (04/23/22 02:34 PM)


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OfflineJacubey
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Jacubey] * 1
    #27749362 - 04/24/22 10:06 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

After going over the Thh conversion process, I'm now concerned my zinc powder is not pure enough. I got "lab grade" zinc, which I recently learned is likely to have cadmium and lead contamination (not food safe). And the lead/cadmium form salts with the freebase alkaloids which make it impossible to separate in a home lab set up. I'll postpone the Thh experiment for now; waiting for reassurance or a more pure source. I may also switch to magnesium since it's easier to get a hold of iirc


--------------------


Edited by Jacubey (04/24/22 10:07 AM)


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OfflineTrancedOutBrah
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Jacubey] * 1
    #27749454 - 04/24/22 11:21 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Is the complex really safe though? I still have a lot of doubts about the safety profile of it, I'll definitely have to research further. Wasn't it banned for hormone purposes or something? Or was it just stopped being used because oral hormones/steroids got banned?

I'm also interested in trying Moclobemide+Oral DMT instead, seems like it's the better route to go but I haven't seen anyone mix Moclobemide+THH+Harmalas, I'm sure if you got the dosing just right that would be a very interesting experience. I just can't find enough information mixing them. Looks like I'll have to look up the pharmacology myself and see if I can figure it out, even if it's only a tiny little bit....


--------------------
Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say.

Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one.

Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin.

MIND OVER MATTER

:mushroom2::lsd:


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: TrancedOutBrah]
    #27749493 - 04/24/22 12:10 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Jacubey, your method on post above looks terrible, like a bunch of non wetted HPBCD. Please follow the instructions I posted to the T or it will not work. You also must include from 30 to 35mg harmine with the sublingual HPBCD DMT or it will not work.

4-24-2022
Thread summarized in 4 pages and continued here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Edited by tregar (07/05/22 09:01 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27850072 - 07/05/22 08:28 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Jacubey, don't bring your crap over here. Isn't it obvious from my screen name that I am tregar, been here since 2004. Mycotopia and Bluelight.org as tregar since 2004 as well. Moderator, please ban his nonsense. He is attacking me at every opportunity to label me as "69ron". Don't let the dmt nexus new turd of a moderator Bill Cipher fool you. He is jealous of anyone that knows how to make tetrahydroharmine and will automatically label that person as 69ron since 69ron was the only one who knew how to make it a decade ago.

I was also known as tregar from theNook.org, way before even Mycotopia or Shroomery, simply go to thenook.org and you will see I go way, way back. Thenook labeled me as a professional chemist, which is what I am.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=22

https://mycotopia.net/topic/111790-journal-50-sublingual-hpbcd-dmt-ayahuasca-journeys-over-a-years-time/

https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/journal-50-sublingual-hpbcd-dmt-ayahuasca-journeys-over-a-years-time.919274/

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I go so far back, this 10 page paper I wrote was posted in the Deep knowledge archives of Mycotopia "Lucid and visual morning glory extracts":
https://mycotopia.net/topic/10352-lucid-and-visual-morning-glory-lsa-extracts/

I did a recent extraction on 500 heavenly blue morning glory seeds using 1 shot of 190% everclear along with added 10mg of DL tartaric acid combined with 1 shot of Sherry wine, both everclear and wine kept cold in fridge to prevent acetaldehyde in the wine from evaporating off, as this occurs at 70 degree F. Incredible experience, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x two, this is what it felt like, more visual than acid, colored rainbows everywhere in mid-air, warping and melting of furniture, euphoria, stimulating like acid and music was just fantastic, and no anxiety or confusion like LSD....I am thinking of always combining this MG extract with my future bridgesii tea which I always take before I go to the waterpark, where I trip all morning and early afternoon long.

There are around 32 to 36 seeds to a gram. So 12 to 14 grams is 400 seeds to 500 seeds.

How this works:
"New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water"
https://mycotopia.net/topic/110273-new-research-morning-glory-contains-5-stimulating-lsd-like-drugs-soluble-only-in-winealcohol-only-sparingly-soluble-in-water/page-1

See the posts by chemist Peter Webster, Dr. D and Stretchman in the post above "Lucid and visual mg extracts" on 2nd page who also extracted into everclear with added DL tartaric acid to convert the freebase alkaloids found in the rubbery embryo of the seeds into their salt form for better extraction and stomach absorption and had phenomenal trips. You will want to include one shot of sherry wine with your everclear, as it is high in acetaldehyde (10mg per shot) and will convert the LSA to LSH via adduct addition once you let the mixture sit in fridge for 3 hours with shaking hard for one minute once per hour. I will post pics and instructions next time I do this here below. You need to use a lot of seeds, 500 is a great dose.

0. Replace light bulb in garage or room lamp where you do this with a "red light bulb" found at grocery store or similar, to create low light conditions to keep fragile alkaloids from decomposing.

1. Crush 500 seeds between a paper plate with ends folded over on cement floor using hammer

2. Put crushed seed powder in a coffee grinder and grind to dust

3. Add this seed dust to 1/2 pint jar containing 1 to 1.5 shot of 190% proof everclear + 10mg DL tartaric acid (*mazon) + 1 to 1.5 shot of sherry wine (2oz total), you can increase to 1.5 shot of both if you desire (3oz total), make sure both are fridge cold, as acetaldehyde boils off at 70 degree F or room temp, you don't want your LSH decomposing the LSA do you?

4. Let this jar sit in fridge for at least 3 hours or longer, can even sit overnight or days, shake jar for one minute hard at least once per hour during the 3 hours.

5. Decant and Filter the cold liquid above the seed debris through a cotton ball stuffed in a funnel, the cotton will remove all the nauseating seed debris, but leave the active liquid to flow through the cotton, change out the cotton when and if it clogs, continue to filter.

6. Freeze this liquid if you plan to use weeks later or keep in fridge at all times if you plan to use it soon (within days). Always keep cold or the acetaldehyde will boil out and the LSH will decompose to LSA.

7. Drink the liquid while it is cold only, enjoy a lucid and visual trip, imagine your best 2 hit acid trip x two.

Note: DO NOT ADD MORE THAN 10mg DL tartaric acid to the 1 to 1.5 shot sherry wine + 1 to 1.5 shot everclear...too much DL tartaric acid can upset ph balance of the body and you will feel really bad...10mg will keep ph no lower than 3.5. The wine will go from natural ph=4 down to ph=3.5, but no lower. You will need a 1mg (0.001g) electronic scale to do this, like the AWS GPR-20 20g x 0.001g scale for example. It needs to be DL tartaric acid and not just plain L tartaric acid, The d-form salt is the form LSD is active as for example, not the L-form.

Note, very important: Cold sherry cooking wine is recommended as an extraction solution since it is already at ph=4 and is 18% alcohol, and is also very cheap ($5 per bottle). It can be found in the wine isle of any grocery store, and is often on sale. It also contains 10mg acetaldehyde per each shot (30ml). A $9 wine preserver canister can be bought at Amazon which contains a gas mixture of argon, carbon dioxide & other inert gases which can be sprayed into an open bottle of sherry wine before sealing cork to preserve the wine indefinitely in the fridge, otherwise the acetaldehyde in the wine converts to acetic acid over time, giving the wine a vinegar taste. Without the acetaldehyde kept intact, the LSA will NOT convert to LSH, so keep your wine fresh by sealing it with wine preserver gas from canister. The wine preserver contains enough gas to last for years of sealing many bottles.

Vecktor (advanced chemist like myself):
Quote:

tregar, you have probably rediscovered something that has long been a curiosity, for example on the now defunct blacklight site there was TLC posted of morning glory seed extract treated with methanol, acetaldehyde-methanol or with acetaldehyde-methanol-water, the extract treated with acetaldehyde-methanol showed a clear difference in the alkaloid profile, with a shift to several new non polar spots which couldn't be identified. Very likely the LSA converted to LSH (LSA + acetaldehyde = LSH). IIRC Erhlichs was used to develop the plates so these were indole compounds.




fastandbulbous (chem wizard from bluelight):
Quote:

Apparently N-(1-hydroxyethyl)lysergamide (LSH) is an adduct compound formed from lysergamide (lysergic acid amide, LSA/LAA, LA-111) and acetaldehyde. This hints towards the idea that isn't the most stable of compounds, but would be pretty easily formed by the combination of lysergamide (LSA) & acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (ie a way to get much more & better psychedelic activity from any lysergamide extracted from seed sources).




Chemist Peter Webster who spoke at the LSD symposium:
Quote:

LSH is a labile adduct of ergine (LSA) and acetaldehyde.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Update 7.21.2022 You may also like:

LSH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2, with 10 pics:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/fpart/1/vc/1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sublingual Ayahuasca, my psychedelic of choice: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371

hxxps://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371 (change hxxp to http to link)


Edited by tregar (02/17/23 06:06 AM)


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OfflineJacubey
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27850217 - 07/05/22 10:19 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I see you have edited your previous post to point out that my complexing method didn't work so well.  It would have been nice to have that input several months ago when I was still actively pursuing this.  I still believe HPBCD has its value, and maybe I'll try again with more water next time.  The method you describe was very difficult and messy for me, so I made an alternative. 

I notice that you waited until I cross-referenced my method from dmt-nexus to update your reply and then make a post attacking me here, so it seems you are still lurking there, at the very least.

I am not taking every opportunity to put you down.  I made 2 replies on a single thread here, and then made follow-up replies for things I thought were important to a couple of my posts on dmt-nexus.

To mods, I would recommend cross-checking with the mods from dmt-nexus, since that is where the claims originate.  Maybe this is all a misunderstanding, but I am still suspect.


--------------------


Edited by Jacubey (07/05/22 10:52 AM)


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