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Offlinetregar
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: s240779] * 1
    #27746676 - 04/22/22 11:48 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

4-24-2022
Thread summarized in 4 pages and continued here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383
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Professor8 said in 2012 here:
Quote:

A while back I read a very good explanation of the different effects of Harmalas that has stuck with me. I believe it was 69ron that said: ‘Harmine is the Coffee of the harmalas & Harmaline is the Weed and when it comes to THH (tetrahydroharmine) you have The Light.'

Whilst very similar in molecular structure, THH has a completely different personality to Harmine & Harmaline. Calling it The Light of the harmalas is very appropriate. IMHO, it is the Holy Grail of The Harmalas. I have found Harmine very, very helpful in Meditation & Yoga. It energises your Light Body and allows you to see your Chakras & Auric fields; very helpful in a biofeedback sorta way.

Personally, Harmaline is too heavy & stony for me but I do respect its power and personality, kinda like a big shaggy & lovable dog.



I'm more in the camp with professor8, unfortunately I have a low nausea threshold, and those who know me know I always avoid anything with even the slightest hint of nausea producing potential personally.

4-22-2002 sublingual Ayahuasca journey tonight:

300mg pure THH taken orally 45 minutes before
30mg HPBCD harmine
150mg HPBCD dmt

Today, I'm taking 300mg THH or tetrahydrohamine 45 minutes before, then 30mg of harmine freebase complexed to x6 or 180mg HPBCD in 3 drops boiling hot water from a nearby microwaved coffee mug, along with 150mg dmt freebase complexed to x7 or 1050mg HPBCD in 12 drops boiling hot water from the mug.

I stirred, mashed and mixed the 30mg harmine along with the 180mg HPBCD for 2 minutes on a spoon using the end of another spoon in the 3 drops hot water, it complexes very fast, it appears to work in only 30 seconds.

Then I stirred, mashed and mixed the 150mg dmt along with the 1050mg HPBCD in 12 drops hot water on a spoon using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, then held lighter 1" away for 20 seconds, then mixed contents 10 more seconds...this really aids the complete dissolution or dissolving of the 2 ingredients. Like a tornado, the dmt is trapped inside the HPBCD cone. This makes it not only very water soluble, but studies show this enhances penetration into the sublingual mucosa under the tongue by up to 400%.

Dr. Narang:
Quote:

"with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal, absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection.



Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:
Quote:

You can't compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual harmine is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.


I use 30mg HPBCD complexed harmine fb sublingually along with the sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT, 30mg sublingual has the power of x6 or 180mg oral harmine.

Then I added the 30mg HPBCD harmine to the spoon of 150mg HPBCD DMT, and mixed it all together, made sure I took 300mg pure THH 45 minutes before, then put the spoon of HPBCD harmine/dmt under tongue, it all adheres as HPBCD forms sticky complexes (like sugar) and held for 15 minutes. 30mg sublingual harmine has the power of x6 or 180mg oral harmine, works really great for activating the DMT.

Update 3pm: I took 300mg THH 45 minutes before, then the harmine/dmt complex held under tongue for 15 minutes...mind blowing experience...with eyes closed for an entire hour I witnessed the most incredible evolving dancing kaleidoscopic geometrics I've ever seen, way beyond anything I've ever seen before, and all incredible neon yellow, pink, green, blue, violet...at some points the geometries evolved into Egyptian cat women and Indian goddesses. I was blow away, I had music playing, mind blowing music enhancement...so heavenly...

with open eyes, incomprehensible beauty everywhere, the movie playing had actresses who looked like glowing, dazzling super colorful cartoon versions of themselves.

This felt like 600mg of mescaline, +5 Shulgin level experience, incredible deep head space and profound spiritual insights.

Best part: zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety. Pure euphoria and bliss. I will continue to use this weekly for the rest of my life.

Pic1: top to bottom: 300mg pure THH to take orally 45 minutes before, 30mg harmine, 180mg HPBCD to complex to the harmine, 150mg dmt, 1050mg HPBCD to complex the dmt.

Pic2: a spoon holding the sublingual 30mg HPBCD complexed harmine along with a spoon holding the 150mg HPBCD dmt. I add the harmine to the dmt spoon, mix it all together, then hold both under tongue at exact same time, just as the Shaman's do for the most powerful experience.

Artwork courtesy of Jillian Evelyn, "Beyond the mold"...she is one of my favorite artists. My grandmother was a lifetime oil painter and taught me to oil paint at an early age, thus my love for art. She had rooms full of art, and even painted dragons on the bedroom wall, and cowboys in the bathroom. Some of her paintings can be seen on page 3, post Professor8 said in 2012 here:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=3






4-24-2022
Thread summarized in 4 pages and continued here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383


Edited by tregar (04/24/22 10:43 AM)


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OfflineJacubey
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27747312 - 04/22/22 07:58 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Did my first experiments with 2hpbcd and harmine tonight.

Wow! It takes so much less water than you expect. Over doing it will make the complex far too liquidy, and will begin to feel like snot/mucus build up in the mouth after a few minutes.

Traegar is not joking when they say "use 1 drop per 10mg of freebase". It may not seem like enough but after some mashing you come out with a sticky/slimy/waxy complex. I got it right on my 4th try. Still have not added any dmt or thh yet.

I struggle with sublingual anything. I seem to salivate far too much

EDIT:

I guess I was wrong. I did not get it right the 4th time. I've adjusted the method a bit, and I am losing a lot less material while making the complexes now. What I am getting now is a sticky coagulated powder it would seem.  It is less liquid than the pictures from traegar above, but it seems easier to administer for me.


Current process:

  • Measure out 1:7 harmine:2hpbcd
  • Place contents in small glass vessel
  • Tilt the glass 45 degrees
  • Gently agitate so the materials gather in a pile where the base and side of the glass meet
  • Set the glass down gently, so the pile stays together
  • Fill 10cc syringe with 1-2ml of boiling water from an electric kettle (I do not have any pipettes handy)
  • Fill the remaining 8-9ml with air. This will serve as a cusion to help get individual drops out
  • Add one drop boiling water per 10mg of freebase material (harmine only in my case), directly on the pile
  • Using a small lab spoon (perhaps even a dab pick), mash the materials for several minutes
  • once the mixture seems homogenous and is appropriately sticky, assume complete and administer sublingually


My hpbcd Complexed harmine:

Edit 2:

Me and my wife (who both tried the complexes) woke up the next morning with strep-throat like symptoms. Very doubtful its related to these experiments; we have a child (he is never present when we try these things), and children are pretty nasty. We probably got it from him. It will put a halt to my experiments temporarily. On the bright side my zinc dust comes in today and I ought to be able to go through with the thh conversion.


Edited by Jacubey (04/23/22 02:34 PM)


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OfflineJacubey
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Jacubey] * 1
    #27749362 - 04/24/22 10:06 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

After going over the Thh conversion process, I'm now concerned my zinc powder is not pure enough. I got "lab grade" zinc, which I recently learned is likely to have cadmium and lead contamination (not food safe). And the lead/cadmium form salts with the freebase alkaloids which make it impossible to separate in a home lab set up. I'll postpone the Thh experiment for now; waiting for reassurance or a more pure source. I may also switch to magnesium since it's easier to get a hold of iirc


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Edited by Jacubey (04/24/22 10:07 AM)


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OfflineTrancedOutBrah
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Jacubey] * 1
    #27749454 - 04/24/22 11:21 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Is the complex really safe though? I still have a lot of doubts about the safety profile of it, I'll definitely have to research further. Wasn't it banned for hormone purposes or something? Or was it just stopped being used because oral hormones/steroids got banned?

I'm also interested in trying Moclobemide+Oral DMT instead, seems like it's the better route to go but I haven't seen anyone mix Moclobemide+THH+Harmalas, I'm sure if you got the dosing just right that would be a very interesting experience. I just can't find enough information mixing them. Looks like I'll have to look up the pharmacology myself and see if I can figure it out, even if it's only a tiny little bit....


--------------------
Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say.

Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one.

Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin.

MIND OVER MATTER

:mushroom2::lsd:


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Offlinetregar
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: TrancedOutBrah]
    #27749493 - 04/24/22 12:10 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Jacubey, your method on post above looks terrible, like a bunch of non wetted HPBCD. Please follow the instructions I posted to the T or it will not work. You also must include from 30 to 35mg harmine with the sublingual HPBCD DMT or it will not work.

4-24-2022
Thread summarized in 4 pages and continued here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383
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Edited by tregar (07/05/22 09:01 AM)


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Offlinetregar
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27850072 - 07/05/22 08:28 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Jacubey, don't bring your crap over here. Isn't it obvious from my screen name that I am tregar, been here since 2004. Mycotopia and Bluelight.org as tregar since 2004 as well. Moderator, please ban his nonsense. He is attacking me at every opportunity to label me as "69ron". Don't let the dmt nexus new turd of a moderator Bill Cipher fool you. He is jealous of anyone that knows how to make tetrahydroharmine and will automatically label that person as 69ron since 69ron was the only one who knew how to make it a decade ago.

I was also known as tregar from theNook.org, way before even Mycotopia or Shroomery, simply go to thenook.org and you will see I go way, way back. Thenook labeled me as a professional chemist, which is what I am.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=22

https://mycotopia.net/topic/111790-journal-50-sublingual-hpbcd-dmt-ayahuasca-journeys-over-a-years-time/

https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/journal-50-sublingual-hpbcd-dmt-ayahuasca-journeys-over-a-years-time.919274/

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383

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I go so far back, this 10 page paper I wrote was posted in the Deep knowledge archives of Mycotopia "Lucid and visual morning glory extracts":
https://mycotopia.net/topic/10352-lucid-and-visual-morning-glory-lsa-extracts/

I did a recent extraction on 500 heavenly blue morning glory seeds using 1 shot of 190% everclear along with added 10mg of DL tartaric acid combined with 1 shot of Sherry wine, both everclear and wine kept cold in fridge to prevent acetaldehyde in the wine from evaporating off, as this occurs at 70 degree F. Incredible experience, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x two, this is what it felt like, more visual than acid, colored rainbows everywhere in mid-air, warping and melting of furniture, euphoria, stimulating like acid and music was just fantastic, and no anxiety or confusion like LSD....I am thinking of always combining this MG extract with my future bridgesii tea which I always take before I go to the waterpark, where I trip all morning and early afternoon long.

There are around 32 to 36 seeds to a gram. So 12 to 14 grams is 400 seeds to 500 seeds.

How this works:
"New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water"
https://mycotopia.net/topic/110273-new-research-morning-glory-contains-5-stimulating-lsd-like-drugs-soluble-only-in-winealcohol-only-sparingly-soluble-in-water/page-1

See the posts by chemist Peter Webster, Dr. D and Stretchman in the post above "Lucid and visual mg extracts" on 2nd page who also extracted into everclear with added DL tartaric acid to convert the freebase alkaloids found in the rubbery embryo of the seeds into their salt form for better extraction and stomach absorption and had phenomenal trips. You will want to include one shot of sherry wine with your everclear, as it is high in acetaldehyde (10mg per shot) and will convert the LSA to LSH via adduct addition once you let the mixture sit in fridge for 3 hours with shaking hard for one minute once per hour. I will post pics and instructions next time I do this here below. You need to use a lot of seeds, 500 is a great dose.

0. Replace light bulb in garage or room lamp where you do this with a "red light bulb" found at grocery store or similar, to create low light conditions to keep fragile alkaloids from decomposing.

1. Crush 500 seeds between a paper plate with ends folded over on cement floor using hammer

2. Put crushed seed powder in a coffee grinder and grind to dust

3. Add this seed dust to 1/2 pint jar containing 1 to 1.5 shot of 190% proof everclear + 10mg DL tartaric acid (*mazon) + 1 to 1.5 shot of sherry wine (2oz total), you can increase to 1.5 shot of both if you desire (3oz total), make sure both are fridge cold, as acetaldehyde boils off at 70 degree F or room temp, you don't want your LSH decomposing the LSA do you?

4. Let this jar sit in fridge for at least 3 hours or longer, can even sit overnight or days, shake jar for one minute hard at least once per hour during the 3 hours.

5. Decant and Filter the cold liquid above the seed debris through a cotton ball stuffed in a funnel, the cotton will remove all the nauseating seed debris, but leave the active liquid to flow through the cotton, change out the cotton when and if it clogs, continue to filter.

6. Freeze this liquid if you plan to use weeks later or keep in fridge at all times if you plan to use it soon (within days). Always keep cold or the acetaldehyde will boil out and the LSH will decompose to LSA.

7. Drink the liquid while it is cold only, enjoy a lucid and visual trip, imagine your best 2 hit acid trip x two.

Note: DO NOT ADD MORE THAN 10mg DL tartaric acid to the 1 to 1.5 shot sherry wine + 1 to 1.5 shot everclear...too much DL tartaric acid can upset ph balance of the body and you will feel really bad...10mg will keep ph no lower than 3.5. The wine will go from natural ph=4 down to ph=3.5, but no lower. You will need a 1mg (0.001g) electronic scale to do this, like the AWS GPR-20 20g x 0.001g scale for example. It needs to be DL tartaric acid and not just plain L tartaric acid, The d-form salt is the form LSD is active as for example, not the L-form.

Note, very important: Cold sherry cooking wine is recommended as an extraction solution since it is already at ph=4 and is 18% alcohol, and is also very cheap ($5 per bottle). It can be found in the wine isle of any grocery store, and is often on sale. It also contains 10mg acetaldehyde per each shot (30ml). A $9 wine preserver canister can be bought at Amazon which contains a gas mixture of argon, carbon dioxide & other inert gases which can be sprayed into an open bottle of sherry wine before sealing cork to preserve the wine indefinitely in the fridge, otherwise the acetaldehyde in the wine converts to acetic acid over time, giving the wine a vinegar taste. Without the acetaldehyde kept intact, the LSA will NOT convert to LSH, so keep your wine fresh by sealing it with wine preserver gas from canister. The wine preserver contains enough gas to last for years of sealing many bottles.

Vecktor (advanced chemist like myself):
Quote:

tregar, you have probably rediscovered something that has long been a curiosity, for example on the now defunct blacklight site there was TLC posted of morning glory seed extract treated with methanol, acetaldehyde-methanol or with acetaldehyde-methanol-water, the extract treated with acetaldehyde-methanol showed a clear difference in the alkaloid profile, with a shift to several new non polar spots which couldn't be identified. Very likely the LSA converted to LSH (LSA + acetaldehyde = LSH). IIRC Erhlichs was used to develop the plates so these were indole compounds.




fastandbulbous (chem wizard from bluelight):
Quote:

Apparently N-(1-hydroxyethyl)lysergamide (LSH) is an adduct compound formed from lysergamide (lysergic acid amide, LSA/LAA, LA-111) and acetaldehyde. This hints towards the idea that isn't the most stable of compounds, but would be pretty easily formed by the combination of lysergamide (LSA) & acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (ie a way to get much more & better psychedelic activity from any lysergamide extracted from seed sources).




Chemist Peter Webster who spoke at the LSD symposium:
Quote:

LSH is a labile adduct of ergine (LSA) and acetaldehyde.




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Update 7.21.2022 You may also like:

LSH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2, with 10 pics:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/fpart/1/vc/1
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Sublingual Ayahuasca, my psychedelic of choice: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371

hxxps://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371 (change hxxp to http to link)


Edited by tregar (02/17/23 06:06 AM)


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OfflineJacubey
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Registered: 08/19/20
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27850217 - 07/05/22 10:19 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I see you have edited your previous post to point out that my complexing method didn't work so well.  It would have been nice to have that input several months ago when I was still actively pursuing this.  I still believe HPBCD has its value, and maybe I'll try again with more water next time.  The method you describe was very difficult and messy for me, so I made an alternative. 

I notice that you waited until I cross-referenced my method from dmt-nexus to update your reply and then make a post attacking me here, so it seems you are still lurking there, at the very least.

I am not taking every opportunity to put you down.  I made 2 replies on a single thread here, and then made follow-up replies for things I thought were important to a couple of my posts on dmt-nexus.

To mods, I would recommend cross-checking with the mods from dmt-nexus, since that is where the claims originate.  Maybe this is all a misunderstanding, but I am still suspect.


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Edited by Jacubey (07/05/22 10:52 AM)


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