Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinetregar
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes
One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste & increases absorption many factors * 4
    #27278392 - 04/22/21 05:51 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

Sublingual Ayahuasca, my psychedelic of choice: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371

hxxps://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371 (change hxxp to http to link)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Compilation of panaeolus cyanescens experiences & combo with THH or tetrahydroharmine, like organic psilocin LSD:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28108398

Pic 1: After the substrate is fully colonized, it will look almost completely white, uncover and add your casing layer.

Pic 2: Had success just growing on a table top with humidifier sitting on same table, directing the mist toward the cake pans.

Pic 3: Final fruiting pic

Pic 4: 300mg of pure tetrahydroharmine or THH at very top of pic in weigher to take with the pan cyan.

Pic 5: One of my favorite woman house DJ's: Music sounds infinitely beautiful with the combo of pan cyan + THH



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

4-24-2022

Thread summarized in 4 pages and continued here:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27749383
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update 7.21.2022 You may also like:

LSH tek: 500 Heavenly blue morning glory extract in 1oz everclear + 1 oz wine, imagine your best 2 hit LSD experience x 2, with 10 pics:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/fpart/1/vc/1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

2 minute formed HPBCD DMT liquid very bioavailable sublingually under tongue & outperforms DMT salts orally by many factors in personal trials, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca.

Skip to page 8 post #27701706 and #27703382 near bottom of page for one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca, masks taste & increases absorption many factors, with 6 pics:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27278392/fpart/8

Here is the full journey report (150mg HPBCD DMT + 170mg harmine fb + 250mg THH or tetrahydroharmine freebase) all dissolved into 30ml (one-shot) hot water, added 150mg pure vitamin C powder so the freebase harmalas could dissolve, although only 100mg is needed:

Update 4pm 3/21/2022: I am writing this 1.5 hour later: took the 1-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca (150mg HPBCD DMT, 250mg THH, 170mg harmine all dissolved into 30ml hot water) and it worked incredibly well! Phenomenal strength, for the 1st 10 minutes I held on tight as it felt like I was handling a high speed sports car, ego disintegrating & boundaries shattered.

For the first 10 minutes, open or closed eyes, didn't matter, saw same thing: colored neon geometrics on the surface of everything. Felt whole body high tryptamine frequency combined with the THH frequency vibration = amazing amplified whole body frequency, like being tuned into another spirit manifested alien world. It felt like a colored shining tractor beam was going to surround me and take me away, very 3-dimensional.

It was so powerful for 10 minutes, I had to close my eyes to find a happy place. Felt like the most powerful of my past Hawaiian psychotria experiences (40 grams leaf) with Caapi which I only ventured at this dose around 5 times (and all by accident, never meant to, as it is so strong) out of my 70 total Hawaiian psychotria journeys (most 30-35 grams), this was no different, exactly the same as the potent leaf, at the very high end for advanced Ayahuasca use.

Dennis Mckenna once said about one of his Ayahuasca journeys, that for the first 10 minutes it felt like he was riding an elevator to the top floor at high speed, this is how it felt for me, or like handling a high speed sports car.

...then it became at 10 minutes extremely enjoyable, infinite open eyed beauty, incredible closed eye morphing & dancing geometrics in wild neon purple, pink & green that lasted for another 35 minutes with closed eyes. With open eyes, saturated neon colors and neon colored rainbow reflections surrounded everything which glowed intensely with an inner divine light, music playing was just heavenly, incredible music enhancement, +5 Shulgin level experience, most powerful experience I've had in years....very strong for 1.5 hour, when it decreased in strength several notches.

I could not believe the open eyed beauty--phenomenal...this is my preferred method. WOW, unbelievable experience, high euphoria, deep headspace, profound spiritual insights, extremely visual, had the power of 40g Hawaiian psychotria to the highest degree. I experienced zero nausea, zero dizziness (so long as I keep my harmine dose below 200mg). Love, Love, Love.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 0: 12 reasons pure THH or tetrahydroharmine rocks (this post #1 in middle)
Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration, over 44 sublingual DMT experiences over a year's time (this post #1 at bottom with pics). Many times stronger than oral DMT. Updated 1-1-2022.

--> See the 5 hour brightly colored CEV trip report using 300mg oral THH once + 60mg sublingual HPBCD DMT + 35mg sublingual harmine fb x 2 re-doses every 1.5 hour at the very bottom of this post #1. HPBCD DMT kicks ass period. Most meaningful & intense CEV visionary experience of my life, and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times and high dose cactus tea over 200 times. Incredible music enhancement the whole time as well. <--

Part 2: L-dreamer's 2/4/2022 experience: "Sublingual DMT + oral THH - surprising and underrated" + Closing tips + Receptorome chart & explanation (2nd post down)
Part 3: 300mg Tetrahydroharmine (THH) teaching visions all by itself
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: Chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD complexed prohormones for sublingual use (millions of dollars in sales) & bloodwork studies (post #5)
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal, absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection.
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
part 10: One way to make pure tetrahydroharmine
part 11: From the archives of DMT world: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask. (page 2, post #27283417)
part 12: Out of print writings on the Divine Plant of the Incas, coca leaf visions...and writings on strong euphoria from coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, forming orally active cocaethylene in the liver, discovered in 1994. Explains the popularity of Vin Mariani (coca leaf soaked wine) with both popes, Thomas Edison and countless celebrities. (page 2, post #27289484)
part 13: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) + 1-acetaldehyde LSD (identical to ALD-52) trip reports, like high dose mescaline. (page 2, post #27291303)
part 14: THH + mushrooms report from JKW. (page 2, post #27292261)
part 15: Multiple encounters with death and depression & 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD oral Ayahuasca report. (page 2, post #27295023)
part 16: Late March 2022 experience: Oral Ayahuasca: 250mg oral THH fb + 160mg oral harmine fb + 140mg HPBCD DMT, THH and harmine in gelatin capsules, 140mg HPBCD DMT dissolves from off spoon instantly into 1 shot glass of 125 degree F water, transparent color. Many times more potent than freebase or DMT salts used orally. HPBCD not only helps to mask the taste of the nasty freebase DMT as it goes down but improves absorption into intestinal tissues many factors over. (page 8)

Subject also discussed here: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
---------------------------------------------------------------
10.18.2021 update:

Tetrahydroharmine + 1-acetaldehyde LSD (similar to ALD-52) combo, like high dose mescaline, see details on part 13, see page 2, post #27291303.

In closing, I'm going to post what I believe to be a revolutionary psychedelic combination, and it's dirt cheap compared to the rare and very expensive cactus...but it's just as long-lasting, profound, highly euphoric, visual, neon-colorful, music-enhancing & super deep head space, with zero-anxiety as two feet of fat bridgesii.

300mg THH + 250ug 1-acetaldehyde LSD report (2oz fresh cold sherry wine morning glory extract can substitute as well)

1) The combo of 300mg THH + 1-acetaldehyde LSD makes the beauty & aesthetic enhancement way stronger than LSD alone. Same "over the top" beauty enhancement as high dose cactus tea.

2) The music sounds much better than LSD alone, it feels very much like when you combine mescaline with LSD, as THH is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline.

3) The combo is highly visual & neon-colorful with open eyes, with each of the 12 trips spaced two weeks apart experienced so far have seen neon-red-greens, neon-orange-blues, and even neon-purple-yellows, supercolorful just like high-dose cactus tea.

3) Very beautiful combination.

4) This 300mg THH + 250ug 1-acetaldehyde LSD combo is one of my absolute favorites, have since used it every 2 weeks x 12 times now. No re-doses necessary as the THH has a 10.5 hour half life with peak at 5.25 hours. Very powerful: Lasts all evening, infinitely beautiful. I've consistently reached +5 Shulgin level strength every time, very life changing experience every time. Super deep head space, Divine to the extreme, heavenly mescaline-like spiritual euphoria for hours on end, no words to describe.

Note: THH is NOT an MAOI, she (feminine spirit) is a psychedelic SRI or serotonin reuptake inhibitor just like the following psychedelic serotonin reuptake inhibitors: mescaline, LSD, shrooms, ibogaine.

Make sure your THH is pure and not contaminated with unconverted harmaline (which is a RIMA/maoi). Dab some THH on a wet cue tip, rub on paper plate, hold under blacklight, if it glows blue you have THH, if any green glow, you have harmaline in it, keep in mind harmine also glows blue too though.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
(0) Part 0: 12 reasons pure THH or tetrahydroharmine rocks
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1. Part 10 of this paper: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. TIHKAL THH entry also achieved 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted.

1. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115:
Quote:

Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.




In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.

2. She is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine. She is the 2nd highest alkaloid in Caapi. She has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, she is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline, few people have used her over 100mg. I have seen the receptorome chart for THH vs. mescaline. She not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors A1-A3 associated with beauty and aesthetic enhancement, just like mescaline. Beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included, she is diamondlike shimmering in her beauty.

Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.

8. This pure THH at 300mg all by herself is extremely visual, she's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally.

9. The entry in TIHKAL for 300mg THH is completely wrong, where the unexperienced person compares it to the effects of 100mg harmaline. She is nothing at all like harmaline, and like 69ron once said about the person's comment in TIHKAL, he or she would not be able to tell their ass from their elbow. I agree, what complete nonsense. Dr. Shulgin wrote that he never got the chance to try THH, but wrote that more studies on it are "badly needed."

10. professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Quote:

Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.




11. Trips (from here on 12/2/2011):
Quote:

As to how the THH altered the experience -> I find rue extract+DMT to be very similar to mushrooms. I found the THH added to the rue+DMT to shift the experience to a state much closer to that provided by LSD. It was more clear, more energetic, more focused, and when confusion struck it was definitely more "acid-like".




Espiridion:
Quote:

tetrahydroharmine is much more like mescaline.




The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this component of caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge.

At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of teaching closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged way-beyond 4k visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine, just as Gayle Highpine writes in linked paper:

12. Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher):
Quote:

The vine carries the content of the message, the teaching, and the insight. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts.




Tetrahydroharmine or THH ranks very high on the "periodic psychedelic table" among all the known entheogens for inducing realistic way beyond 4k monochrome teaching visions for hours...adding even small amounts of DMT brightens and colorizes the visions, example: reptiles, birds & animals such as serpents/snakes/toucans/parrots/jaguars with patterning show their respective associated colors. Many times I have viewed multi-colored serpents, birds & jaguars several times over hour long CEV periods, serpents are the manifest spirit of Ayahuasca.

Daniel Pinchbeck "Breaking Open the Head" (Daniel also states in his book, that Ayahuasca is his favorite entheogen):
Quote:

For many people, Ayahuasca-a slowed-down low-res interface of the DMT flash-seems to convey strong messages from the natural world, of nature as sentient energy and spirit matter, of the need to protect the planet we have been given.

Yage whispers that human beings are meant to be gardeners of this reality, journeyers, storytellers and singers, weavers of the sacred. DMT, on the other hand, conveys no overt human or humane message.




Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 428:
Quote:

My experience with smoked DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings Ayahuasca introduced me to. For whereas the Ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or to some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.




Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher):
Quote:

In the western world, Ayahuasca acquired a new definition: It was now, by definition, the combination of Banisteriopsis caapi and a DMT-containing plant. Ayahuasca became, by definition “orally active DMT.” The first anthropologist to adopt the new definition seems to have been Luis Eduardo Luna in 1984. Luna spent time with Terence McKenna, absorbing his perspective, before beginning his fieldwork. Since then, anthropologists have increasingly adopted this definition and filtered their observations through it. The preeminence of the Ayahuasca vine in the indigenous Amazonian world became the elephant in the living room of Ayahuasca studies, with a tacit agreement to pretend it doesn’t exist.

The leaves were Ayahuasca’s “helpers,” I was told, and their purpose was to “brighten and clarify” the visions. The vine is like a cave, and the leaf is like a torch you use to see what is inside the cave. The vine is like a book, and the leaf is like the candle you use to read the book.

The vine is like a snowy television set, and the leaf helps to tune in the picture. There was a subtle attitude that the need for strong leaf was the sign of a beginner: An experienced ayahuasquero could see the visions even in low light.

Ayahuasca vine is not visionary in the same way as DMT. Visions from vine-only brewsare shadowy, monochromatic, like silhouettes, or curling smoke, or clouds moving across the night sky. It is because their visions are usually monochromatic that vines are classified by the color of vision they produce: white, black, blue, red (in my experience, dark maroon).

Snakes, the most common vision on Ayahuasca, are considered the manifest spirit of the vine. Vine visions can be hard to see; in fact, the “visions” may not be visual at all, but auditory or somatic or intuitive. But the vine carries the content of the message, the teaching, and the insight.

The leaf helps illuminate the content, but the teachings are credited to the vine. Vine visions are “frequently associated with writing, to a code that is present in visions…or in the ‘books’ where the spirits keep the secrets of the forest.” (Calavia Saez 2011:135).

The vine is The Teacher, The Healer, The Guide. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts. This is why it is the vine, not the leaf, that is classified by the type of vision it gives. “For them the vine is, in truth, a living guide, a friend, a paternal authority” (Weiskopf 2005:104).

Listening to the Vine:
While I was living in the village, someone began the process of shamanic apprenticeship. There was a series of ceremonies with brews of special strength for that purpose; brews with enormous quantities of vine. About two to three pounds of fresh vine per person was used (about 25 to 35 times the amount needed for MAOI inhibition). Those were powerful experiences indeed.

Although the apprenticeship began with crushingly vine-heavy brews, the more the apprentice progressed, the weaker the brew he would need. He would learn to see the dimmest of visions. If he spent a full two years “fasting,” then eventually even smelling or tasting the brew, even touching an Ayahuasca plant, would be enough to visit her realms. On the other hand, he would learn to navigate the strongest of brews with clear focus, and be undistracted by any amount of DMT fireworks.




Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration

How this works: the Hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin molecule (HPBCD) has an inner hydrophobic cavity (repels water) which attracts & traps freebase molecules like DMT freebase inside it's tornado shaped cone. The outer cavity is hydrophilic (likes water) and thus makes the DMT molecule water-soluble. HPBCD, being a polysaccharide derived from the enzymatic degradation of starch, improves the penetration of the DMT freebase many factors over (studies show x 4 factors or 400%) into the sublingual mucosa under the tongue.

HPBCD, being a potent polysaccharide derived from the enzymatic degradation of starch, improves the penetration of the DMT freebase many factors over (studies show x 4 factors or 400%) into the sublingual mucosa under the tongue. HPBCD then releases the DMT as the potent freebase into the bloodstream once it crosses the sublingual mucosa, these reasons explain it's potency.

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work, and there is no penetration enhancement unless HPBCD is used to complex DMT in the freebase form only. The cyclodextrins have toroidal shapes, with the larger and the smaller openings of the toroid exposing to the solvent secondary and primary hydroxyl groups respectively.

You can order HPBCD from China no matter where you live as it is legal, and if you google "Europe + HPBCD" there are a couple places that sell it as well. It is very common in the USA from *mazon or auction sites.
----------------------------------------
Complete instructions and pictures all updated for 1-1-2022 on sublingual HPBCD DMT & summary of over 44 sublingual experiences in a year's time, these experiences all much stronger than oral DMT by many factors. Zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety or un-easy feelings, deep head space, highly visual, strong open eyed and CEV's of spinning & dancing geometrics & real Ayahuasca visions, incredible music enhancement, way over the top open eyed beauty, neon colorful & highly euphoric, see trip reports at bottom...will continue to use for the rest of my life, highly recommend: Complete instructions and pictures all updated for 1-1-2022 on sublingual HPBCD DMT & summary of over 44 sublingual experiences in a year's time, these experiences all much stronger than oral DMT by many factors. Zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero anxiety or un-easy feelings, deep head space, highly visual, strong open eyed and CEV's of spinning & dancing geometrics & real Ayahuasca visions, incredible music enhancement, way over the top open eyed beauty, neon colorful & highly euphoric, see trip reports at bottom...will continue to use for the rest of my life, highly recommend.

My procedure:
1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for DMT doses of 90mg or below, use 12 drops of boiling hot water to mix DMT doses over 90mg (such as 100 to 120mg). 60mg DMT = +3 Shulgin level strength, 90 to 120mg = +5 Shulgin level life changing strength.
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of a spoon for 2 minutes, scrape & mix everything back and forth hard using your muscles. This is how scientist pre-pare these complexes by kneading.
6) Optional (you do not have to do this): Hold a lighter far away from under the spoon to heat up spoon for around 20 seconds or so, then pull flame away, this seems to aid dissolution or dissolving after heating up a slight bit, mix the contents a little bit more before using.
7) Take 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 45 minutes before...and take 200mg harmine orally around 45 minutes to 1 hour before...if you don't take harmine orally, then place 25 to 35mg of freebase harmine under your tongue. Then place bottom of your tongue onto HPBCD complexed DMT spoon, the HPBCD DMT glob will all adhere as HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes. Be sure to take the 35mg harmine and HPBCD DMT under tongue all at the exact same time in order to activate the DMT strongly.

Hold under tongue for 10 to 12 or 15 minutes depending on dosage, hold under tongue the whole time to trap sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa. Be sure to use bottom end of tongue to lick any off spoon that is left behind, you want to get it all.

At end of 15 minutes, spit out any saliva into a cup instead of swallowing. Gently relieve any saliva during the 15 minute period as comfort dictates by leaning your head forward and spitting into a cup, but keep your tongue pressed down any time you relieve saliva. There is a mild to moderate sting felt but it's so worth enduring for the effects which begin in 22 minutes or 1/2 the time of an oral dose (44 minutes). The sting does not bother me at all. The tongue is completely fine afterwards (no burn), and it's as if nothing happened the next day.

So long as the HPBCD DMT is used sublingually, there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, no delirium, crystal clear clarity like mescaline...there is something about DMT going thru the stomach that tends to induce nausea and weird uncomfortable strange feelings, just as L-dreamer mentions in post #2 of this thread at the very beginning. Same thing with me. It's also no where near as potent as sublingually used HPBCD DMT. Sublingual HPBCD DMT is at least x 5 times stronger than oral DMT.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The combination of THH + DMT simulates true Ayahuasca, but there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero queasiness since there is no harmine or DMT going thru stomach and intestines. 22 minutes in there are heavy CEV's of spinning colored geometrics, visions of ancient architecture, animals, aliens, you name it, She seems to tap into the Akashic record of the ether in the Universe, where all past, present, and future is known. Open eyed profound beauty, music sounds incredible.

This all lasts for 90 minutes. You can re-dose more HPBCD DMT by two more times, around every 1.5 hours if you want. It remains just as effective as the first dose. The sublingual application is several factors stronger than oral DMT, and I've used oral DMT dozens of times.

Oral 300mg THH taken 1 hour earlier + sublingual 60 to 140mg HPBCD DMT journeys (over 44 of them over a year's time). This counts the two subsequent re-doses every 1.5 hour for the evening, for a 4.5 hour total strong journey with super-long afterglow.

With oral 150 to 300mg THH + sublingual 60-120mg HPBCD DMT + sublingual 35mg harmine fb, there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero un-easy feelings or anxiety, I tolerate this very well compared to oral DMT, extremely pleasurable experience, high spiritual euphoria.

First of all there was a deep head space, profound spiritual insights and revelations. I was seeing curtains of visuals in the doorway, closed eye neon spinning & dancing geometrics, music enhancement incredible, out of this world impossible neon colors (like neon yellow-purple) flashing on the walls, some times these colors on the walls would break up into fine lines like lazer beams, and paste themselves like hundreds of beams broadcast on the walls, concentric circle rings in the air, powerful lightening like tracers.

Open eyed beauty so over the top & infinite, actresses in movies looked like glowing, dazzling, super-colorful, cartoon versions of themselves, just like with high dose cactus tea, also zero anxiety just like mescaline. Euphoria was powerful, just like with high dose cactus tea.

Again with the sublingual: pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible.

On my very first 300mg oral THH + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT combined with 35mg sublingual harmine fb trip with 2 sublingual re-doses at each 1.5 hour mark (had not used DMT in several months)....all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the sublingual DMT/harmine and oral THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw that first night.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_at_Large

300mg of tetrahydroharmine (THH) is equated to the (CEV) power of 100mg harmaline, but without all the nausea and dizziness. It glows blue under blacklight, like LSD or psilocin & has a metallic-like lingering taste with a 10.5 hour half-life.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: page 5 of 16 under "Oral products, Kinetics":
Quote:

The oral bioavailability of cyclodextrins is very low in adult animals and humans (0.1–3%), except for RM-β-CD, which has a bioavailability of 12% in rats. Because of their bulky and hydrophilic nature only insignificant amounts of cyclodextrins are absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract by passive diffusion [33, 27].



This pharmacology has been used to potentiate these freebase drugs ORALLY as well -- in my experience, this results in an Ayahuasca experience that is strong in potency. Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.

I've used HPBCD complexed DMT orally three times stirred into a 1oz hot water tea (it dissolves instantly) with 150 to 300mg THH + 160 to 200mg harmine with a bit of citric acid to help the harmalas dissolve, and it's also way more potent than normal DMT freebase or salts used orally, very reminiscent of my over 70 Hawaiian psychotria brewed leaf teas, very strong & all encompassing. Trip report on page 2, post #25 of dmt nexus thread "HPBCD DMT" in Pharmahuasca section. 

But I vastly prefer the oral 150 to 300mg THH + sublingual Ayahuasca (35mg sublingual harmine fb + 60 to 100mg sublingual HPBCD DMT all taken at exact same time under tongue), many times stronger than oral DMT, and zero dizziness or un-easy feelings for me due to only 35mg harmine being used. Highly recommend for sensitive individuals like myself. Very strong & feels great all evening like mescaline, heavenly.

"Sublingual mucosa as a route for systemic drug delivery" by Narang & Sharma 2010:
https://innovareacademics.in/journal/ijpps/Vol3Suppl2/1092.pdf

As you can see from this sublingual viagra study, even 50 to 100mg doses can be administered under the tongue, the authors noting that less of the drug was required, and that it began working in only one half the normal time of an oral dose:

"The start of pharmacological activity after sublingual administration of sildenafil citrate in 30 patients affected by erectile dysfunction." by Siati & Franzolin 2003:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12741340/

Tetrahydroharmine on it's own will also yield the same type visions as harmaline, it just takes more of it. For example, around 300mg of THH will yield the same visions as about 100mg harmaline...even if the THH dose is split in two over several hours, the visions will still be apparent some time after the 2nd dose takes effect, the doses are additive.

THH in the caapi also seems to strongly activate the right hand hemisphere of the brain-- the side that performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts, feelings, visualizations, imagination, holistic thinking & intuition, empathy, spirituality & connectedness. Researchers found that the right side of the brain lit up in brain scans of people who took LSD, mescaline, or mushrooms. This includes tetrahydroharmine. The world is largely moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development.

Quote from TIHKAL by Dr. Shulgin "More studies on tetrahydroharmine are absolutely imperative."

References:

Dennis Mckenna Ph.D:
Quote:

Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron.



I have years of experience with pure tetrahydroharmine, and it does indeed do this very well.

Jamie, posted : 11/23/2012 8:29:28 PM:
Quote:

You can't compare sublingual or oral either..20-30mg sublingual harmine is enough to activate sublingual DMT and cause effects on it's own. 20mg sublingual is probably comparable to 200mg oral.



I use 35mg freebase harmine sublingually along with the sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT, 35mg sublingual has the power of x6 or 210mg oral harmine, but without the dizziness and un-easy feelings you often feel with an oral dose.

Dr. Narang:
Quote:

The absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection. Sublingual mucosa under tongue is only 100 to 200 microns thick.



In over 44 total sublingual experiences over a year's time, this sublingual route is many times more potent than oral DMT. The only way I use it.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: under "Kinetics":
Quote:

Cyclodextrins at high doses can increase drug permeability by direct action on mucosal membranes and enhance drug absorption and/or bioavailability. These effects are possibly caused by solubilisation of membrane lipids through inclusion complexation with cyclodextrins and the ability of cyclodextrins to cause perturbation of membrane integrity. However, unlike detergents, cyclodextrins solubilize membrane components without entering into the membrane, therefore the perturbing effects of cyclodextrins are mild and reversible [7].Cyclodextrins are absorbed poorly via mucosal membranes.



HPBCD enhances the drug permeability of guest complexed drug, but the cyclodextrins themselves are poorly absorbed via the sublingual mucosa.

Pic 1: How to mix the DMT, HPBCD, and drops of very hot water on a spoon.

Pic 2: 1kg container of HPBCD from China for cheap. 2-hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin is the more common form available, works the exact same.

Pic 3: Sublingual mucosa under tongue only 100 to 200 microns thick.

Pic 4: 300mg pure THH for oral use in weigher, 35mg harmine fb for sublingual use next to it, 60mg dmt fb in spoon, 420mg HPBCD white powder above it, coffee mug of near boiling hot water, medicine dropper pipette, Bic lighter.

Pic 5: 60mg DMT was covered with x 7 or 420mg HPBCD powder and 10 drops of near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug was added, and all mashed and stirred well for 2 minutes, then Bic lighter held under spoon until the solution just started to boil (20 seconds or so), then pull flame away, notice how well the DMT complexed inside the HPBCD.

Take 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine 45 minutes earlier orally, place 35mg harmine under tongue, then place tongue on to HPBCD complexed DMT spoon, it will all adhere for sublingual use. Journey starts in 22 minutes after application and lasts x 90 minutes, at which time you can re-dose x 2 more times, each dose just as strong as 1st dose for a 4.5 hour long strong journey with super-long afterglow. Instructions, 5 hour CEV trip report and 9 pics here on post #1.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay true to yourself, Love, Peace and Music
http://www.friskyradio.com











Edited by tregar (02/17/23 06:06 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetregar
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278400 - 04/22/21 05:59 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

Igorcarajo said:
Quote:

Instead of the harmine sublingual, have you tried orally ingested harmine, maybe at the same time as THH, 45 minutes before the sublingual HPBCD-complexed DMT?




Thanks for joining in the discussion igorcarajo, seen you reading for some time. Great question igorcarajo, in fact, out of the 44 times I've used the sublingual HPBCD DMT over a year's time, the time I took 300mg pure tetrahydroharmine (THH) + 200mg harmine fb at the same time orally in capsules, then around an hour later took 90mg of sublingual HPBCD DMT (held under tongue for 15 minutes) was the most powerful experience visually with open eyes, and the deepest headspace yet encountered.

For some reason, the sublingual HPBCD DMT was many factors more powerful than any dosage of oral HPBCD DMT. It was many factors stronger, around x5 times. It was so powerful that I saw curtains of neon-colored visuals in the open doorway when I looked to my right. Everything in all directions was surrounded by brilliant neon-colored rainbows, the euphoria and music enhancement was very powerful.

Open-eyed beauty was beyond belief, divine and infinite. The tracers were so powerful, that they went on forever like a hall of mirrors into the distance, and instead of there just being muliples of my hands when I waved them, there were beautiful colored fractals inside the tracer smears.

In my trip diary that night, I documented this as the most powerful sublingual experience of my life. There was zero nausea, dizziness or anxiety as well, very impressed. The 200mg of harmine was so powerful, that I continued by taking a 2nd dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT again 2 hour laters after the 1st dose, and it again worked just as strong as the first dose. With closed eyes were seen brightly colored Ayahuasca visions, in my diary I noted that I saw close to a hundred rapidly changing visions from Egpytian scenery to elaborate art carvings in stone, way beyond 4k in detail. This resulted in a +5 strength Shulgin level journey with life changing consequences.

The harmine having a half-life of from 1 to 3 hours, did not die off until around 5 hours later, so each time I took a re-dose of sublingual HPBCD DMT for the evening, it continued to work very strongly. I highly recommend this approach as you brought up in your question, and plan to use the oral harmine again with the oral THH again soon (next week again), but only using the HPBCD DMT sublingually as noted above.
-------------------------------------------------------
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1137474#post1137474
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1137474#post1137474
"Sublingual DMT + oral THH - surprising and underrated"

L-dreamer said:
Quote:

Making this thread so that I can post my thoughts on the dosing method described in this thread
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861
My few experiences have consisted of about 60 mg of freebase DMT dissolved in 500 mg of HPBCD, with 250-300 mg of THH, and about 35 mg of sublingual harmala/harmaline

From the start I want to say that sublingual DMT with oral THH is everything I wanted ayahuasca/pharmahuasca to be. And I think it is also the best way for someone to be introduced to DMT
Where do I start with the pros
- no nausea at all, even if you take sublingual harmine/harmaline with it. It is such an odd and pleasant feeling to not have to fight constant nausea and vomit inducing dizziness. I literally don't have to worry about having a handy throwup bucket like I did with typical oral DMT.
- just the right kind of duration, it never overstays it's welcome, in about an hour you will get whatever you had to receive. No need for a bedridden 2+ h long comedown
- crisp, clear headspace. Previous oral DMT experiences have always given me this pinch of delirium and sleepiness to my mental state. But with this combo and I am fully present in it
- no come-up anxiety, the transition is gradual and smooth
- the DMT visuals are there, and in one experience they seemed even more glowing, or with actual real-life landscapes or persons assembling before my vision instead of the usual DMT geometry
- your body will love to move to the music you are listening
- let's say you accidental swallow the DMT solution or the saliva build-up becomes unbearable - you will still have a pharmahuasca experience with less if not any nausea. And also this form of oral DMT seems to absorb way better than a typical pharmahuasca
- you need less DMT than the typical pharmahuasca
- if you aborted the experience (saliva build-up that you spit out) you will now in about 25-30 minutes for sure, and then you can try again with the same DMT dosage, it won't stack like in pharmahuasca where it can sometimes take even 2 hours to enter fully

Now the cons:
- the saliva build-up can abort your start or break it's knees. Now if you swallow the solution you will still get a top-tier pharmahuasca trip, I repeat again, with barely any nausea. I tried with some cotton rolls in my mouth to stop the saliva pooling around the DMT solution but it was useless. Next thing I want to try are some saliva pads dentists use: either I trap the solution between the pad and the mouth floor, or I infuse the pads with the DMT solution, put the pad to the cheek mucosa or sublingual mucosa, and enjoy the slow release of DMT (even your lips can absorb this stuff pretty well, one of these days I will use the solution as ointment only for the lips to test it)
- and that is pretty much it, I can't think of any other cons of this way of taking DMT

With that in mind here are some questions that could be explored in the future
- how to get consistently the neon-glowing visions, they feel like such an eye-candy that your eyes feel compelled to see in all their beauty; is it a certain THH treshhold? less harmine/harmaline or more sublingual harmine/harmaline?
- do we really need the mouth floor? can I just smear this on my lips, inner cheek, upper gums or mouth top since with these there is not saliva problem?

I still can't believe people aren't all over this method, especially beginners. It is so versatile and maybe even "comfortable". It is worth experimenting only on it for me, goodbye throw bucket and tissues next to my bed, goodbye retching and holding in the taste of earthy vomit, goodbye 5 hour long sedation and diziness that takes up your entire day.
I predict in a short time sublingual DMT will have it's separate section on the Nexus.



L-dreamer said:
Quote:

- how to get consistently the neon-glowing visions, they feel like such an eye-candy that your eyes feel compelled to see in all their beauty; is it a certain THH treshhold? less harmine/harmaline or more sublingual harmine/harmaline?



Once again, thanks for your amazing post L-dreamer, and keep up the great work. In answer to this important question, I always use 300mg of very pure home-made tetrahydroharmine (made easily from harmaline in 1.5 hour). You can sometimes find harmaline on-line if you don't want to start from rue seed scratch. 35mg sublingual harmine has power of around x6 or 210mg oral harmine. 60mg HPBCD dmt = + 3 Shulgin level strength, and 90mg HPBCD dmt = + 5 Shulgin level strength.

The fact that one of your experiences involved seeing actual real-life landscapes and persons assembling before your vision instead of the usual DMT geometry only indicates you are in the realm of actual Ayahuasca visions. You will find that many of the Ayahuasca visions begin with dancing & morphing geometry but these then progress to actual colored beautiful teaching visions, each time you see a new phase of geometrics many times indicates a transition to more phenomenal Ayahuasca visions, just as Benny Shanon remarks in "Antipodes of the Mind". I have found this to be true.

Always test any THH you may acquire elsewhere. For example, there is a THH many are using that is made in China, with several reports of it not glowing blue when a bit is rubbed on a wet q-tip and smeared on a paper palate, and the plate held under blacklight. Pure tetrahydroharmine glows light blue like LSD under UV light, any green in the glow indicates unconverted harmaline. Five reports so far from nexus people saying it glows green instead of blue like pure THH even though the paperwork indicates over 98% pure. THH never converts back to harmaline once made and remains stable indefintely, so this tells me the initial synthesis on those particular batches was incomplete.

As a long time chemist, I take purity seriously, and so should everyone. What would happen if THH with contaminated un-converted harmaline in it was mixed with LSD at same time like I often do for an incredible journey (feels like a combo of LSD + mescaline as THH is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline in many ways). It would not be a fun journey like it normally is when using pure THH. Always be careful. Test your THH, even home-made to make sure it is pure.

Pure THH at 300mg results in neon-glowing visions with open or closed eyes in every one of my 44 total oral 300mg THH + 35mg sublingual harmine + 90mg HPBCD DMT held at exact same time under tongue journeys. These 44 times count the 2 subsequent re-doses every 1.5 hour for a strong 4.5 hour experience with super long afterglow beyond that.

Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the pure THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral pure THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. The combo of THH + DMT is like listening to music on high-dose cactus tea, heavenly.

Again with the sublingual: pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible.

Here is an example of the glowing CEV visions you see when using pure THH:

On my very first 300mg oral THH + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT combined with 35mg sublingual harmine fb trip with 2 sublingual re-doses at each 1.5 hour mark (had not used DMT in several months)....all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the sublingual DMT/harmine and oral THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw that first night.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ava69 wrote:
Quote:

Always test any THH you may acquire elsewhere. For example, there is a THH many are using that is made in China, with several reports of it not glowing blue when a bit is rubbed on a wet q-tip and smeared on a paper palate, and the plate held under blacklight. Pure tetrahydroharmine glows light blue like LSD under UV light, any green in the glow indicates unconverted harmaline. Five reports so far from nexus people saying it glows green instead of blue like pure THH even though the paperwork indicates over 98% pure. THH never converts back to harmaline once made and remains stable indefintely, so this tells me the initial synthesis on those particular batches was incomplete.



L-dreamer said:
Quote:

The THH I have does not glow blue (it did not come with a purity certificate), but it definitely is not harmine or harmaline since it does not give nausea at all. Taking more than 300 mg of it makes me a bit dizzy and that's it. And post experience I do feel the typical calmness or composure I got from previous aya drinks.




Thanks for the update. In answer to your question, using pure 300mg THH (which glows light blue) will most assuredly give you the glowing Ayahuasca visions consistently. Bottom of post #2 shows THH glow under blacklight:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1103282&#post1103282
I would recommend making your own, take care, all the best.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Closing tips:

In the 44 times I've used 60 to 90mg HPBCD DMT sublingually under tongue, my tongue felt 100% fine the next day, no burn, completely normal, as if nothing was used the night before. 60mg HPBCD dmt = + 3 Shulgin level strength, and 90mg HPBCD dmt = + 5 Shulgin level strength.

Make sure there is no sodium hydroxide contamination in your dmt before you complex it, as any remnants of it will surely burn, it helps to use a long glass pipette with rubber bulb and 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask (heat resistant & tapers at top for easy pull) when extracting, this will ensure no accidental grabbing of any lye water, ie contamination...and make sure the dmt is complexed to the HPBCD as well as you can, as freebase dmt without being complexed might possibly burn as well.

My only other suggestion, is to just stir the HPBCD complexed DMT from off the spoon into 1oz of microwaved hot water (120 degree F) for oral Ayahuasca use, it dissolves instantly, and you will notice the water remains transparent due to the remarkable dissolution. Then just take a capsule full of 160 to 200mg harmine + 100 to 300mg THH at exact same time you drink the 1oz HPBCD DMT water tea. The harmalas can be in freebase form, work just fine. Take all at exact same time as the Shaman's do for strongest effects.

The HPBCD masks the taste of the nasty DMT freebase very well when used orally in a tea, and even helps to reduce gastrointestinal irritation by the freebase DMT. I was shocked in my oral use as there was virtually no taste, and zero nausea.

Using it orally works very well, used it this way x 3 times. It's many factors stronger than normal dmt freebase or salts used orally, as the HPBCD increases drug penetration x 4 factors or 400% into not only sublingual mucosa but intestinal tissues as well. 80mg HPBCD DMT Oral trip report on page 2, post #25.

One last note: make sure you have not used dmt in any form within the past 2 weeks, as this will ensure 90 minutes of very strong activity, and each dose thereafter for the evening will be just as strong as the first dose and last just as long.

Harmine and THH together are both important, just as Dr. Mckenna mentions for preventing the inactivation of DMT by MAO localized in mitrochondria within the cells of the brain, these both prevent zapping of the DMT, and greatly extend the half-life of the DMT several times over, just like with real oral Ayahuasca, as Benny Shanon mentions in "Antipodes of the Mind"..."there is always 90 minutes of very strong activity", this has been my experience as well when your tolerance is low.

"Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: Page 11 of 16:
Quote:

According to the data in section 2 one can conclude that below 20 mg/kg/day no serious adverse effects are to be expected for all routes of administration and no statement is deemed necessary.

Above 20 mg/kg/day, cyclodextrins may show some activity, and because there are insufficient safety data in children below two years old, it is advisable to inform about the quantity of cyclodextrin in the product and that for use in children below two years old, a doctor’s recommendation is needed.

Above 200 mg/kg/day cyclodextrins may theoretically cause problems in the digestive system when given orally, and cause mild renal toxicity when given parenteral, which information can be given. Depending on the amount, cyclodextrins may influence the Cyclodextrins used as excipients permeability of tissues and therefore the bioavailability of active substances given topically (nasal, rectal, dermal, sublingual, ocular).




This is exactly the way I use the HPBCD sublingually, when I complex 90mg DMT to (x7) or 630mg of HPBCD, and I re-dose two more times every 1.5 hour, I am using 1890mg of HPBCD for the evening. I weigh 95kg, so I am using less than 20mg/kg/day or less than 1900mg per day. This always gives me a 4.5 hour long +5 Shulgin level strength experience with super-long afterglow. Very similar to 600mg of mescaline.

Pic 1: use a 1:1 molar ratio HPBCD to DMT

pic 2: 300mg of pure THH for oral use taken 45 minutes before, not shown: 35mg of freebase harmine for sublingual use taken at exact same time under tongue as the 0.5ml (10 drop) 90mg DMT complexed to 630mg HPBCD stored in a 3ml syringe if desired. Locking syringe caps prevent spillage.

Two re-dose syringes at the 1.5 hour point can be "back-filled" by removing plunger & pouring spoon's HPBCD complexed DMT solution down the syringe. Schematic showing sublingual mucosa only 100 to 200 microns thick.

Pic 3: Pure tetrahydroharmine glows pale blue under blacklight like LSD or psilocin, harmaline reduces to tetrahydroharmine by gaining a hydrogen atom. THH never converts back to harmaline but remains stable indefinitely. Tetrahydroharmine is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine, remarkable way beyond 4k monochrome (blue or green for me) closed eye teaching visions at 300mg for hours. No sedation, pleasant stimulation like mescaline. Adding even small amounts of sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT adds color to the visions.

Pic 4: Serpents are the manifest spirit of Ayahuasca

A few additional pics & from article "Return of the Serpent & of Eden" link given near bottom of post #1:

Top left: Egyptian Goddesses Isis (Cobra) & Serapis: depicted as Sacred Serpents

Top middle: Shipibo Ayahuasca Tapestry: The Vase representing the Amazonian Medicine, The Serpents that of the Grandmother Spirit of Ayahuasca

Top middle: Cosmic Serpent: Book by Jeremy Narby

Top right: Mayan ruins

Bottom left: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl

Bottom middle: Aztec Serpent Moon Goddess (Coyolxauhqui). Other Aztec Serpent Symbols include: Quetzalcoatl (Feathered Serpent), Xiuhcoatl (Fire Serpent), Mixcoatl (Cloud Serpent), and Coatlicue (She with Serpent Skirt)

Bottom right: Kundalini Serpent Pathway

Bottom right: Shiva & Shakti: Siddhi Level of Divine Masculine & Feminine Balance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Receptorome study: how traditional Ayahuasca & snuffs differ from dmt:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83164
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83164

This is why I suggest taking the DMT with tetrahydroharmine (as found in true Ayahuasca):

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
hxxp://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max or "off the charts", 0.00=min

Quote:

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (make up >80% of brain 5-ht)
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69 (sensual & entactogenic)
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69 (novelty & new ideas)
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2a)
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2b)
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2c)




2011 Thomas S. Ray study: Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min
Quote:

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00


(these serotonin filters/gates/barriers/doors make up >80% of brain 5-ht & are broken down when 5-ht1a is agonized)

This study from Mol Pharmacol. 1988 Feb;33(2):178-86. backs up the above study from Thomas S. Ray:

Pharmacology of 5-hydroxytryptamine-1A receptors which inhibit cAMP production in hippocampal and cortical neurons in primary culture. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2828913
Quote:

5-HT1A agonist: All the tryptamine derivatives substituted in position 5 of the indol were potent agonists [5-HT, 5-CT, 5-MeO-N,N-DMT, 5-methoxytryptamine, and bufotenine (5-ho-DMT)],

whereas tryptamine, N-methyltryptamine, and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) were poor agonists.




Dr. Nichols (Heffter.org LSD paper):
Quote:

LSD has very strong potency in blocking the action of serotonin. LSD is strongly "anti-serotonin". The morpholide lysergamide cousin had only about 1/10th the potency in blocking serotonin. Of the 5 diferent dialkylamides we studied LSD was the most potent and specific serotonin antagonist. 5-ht1a makes up >80% of brain 5-ht receptors



An example of the importance of adding the serotonin reuptake inhibition properties of 5-meo-dmt for example to dmt (which has poor 5-ht1 reuptake properites on it's own) is shown below. This is the same way the snuff's are used in the amazon, as they naturally combine dmt with additives which cause the reuptake of 5-ht like bufotenin for example.

Oroc's experiment of combining 5-meo-dmt with DMT sounds imho very much like a short beautiful transcendental Ayahuasca experience, from his book "Tryptamine Palace":

DMT + tiny amounts of 5-meo-dmt [perhaps similar theoretically to Amazonian snuffs which have a makeup of 7.4% bufotenin (potent 5-ht1a agonist), 0.04% 5-MeO-DMT (potent 5-ht1a agonist) & 0.16% DMT (poor potency as 5-ht1a agonist):
Quote:

As an experiment (and in a foreign land) I smoked the last of the Bufo alvarius venom (the story of whose collection is described within the pages of Tryptamine Palace) with some ‘regular’ DMT (extracted from Jurema Preta.). In the vast majority of my early nigerine (DMT) experiences, I encountered visual fields of ‘dots’ that would come together to form images, much like the pointillism style of painting developed by Georges Seurat or the Australian Aboriginal song-line paintings.

** With the addition of the 5-MeO-DMT containing toad-venom to the DMT however, the visual characteristic was completely different and totally unique to my experiences so far. On this occasion there was a complete lack of ‘dots’ or ‘points’ of any kind, the fine lines of the constantly changing imagery were like those painted with a single-hair brush on Tibetan thangkas and due to the overwhelming artistry of what I was seeing, I could only think of the vaulted ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in comparison.

Sistene Chapel: This was without a doubt the most ‘visionary’ experience I have ever been fortunate enough to encounter and I lay there with my eyes shut watching the most fantastic parade of the Collective Unconsciousness imaginable, wishing that it would never end, and as I sit here now I can not even describe one tiny corner of it, since every image in the multitude of imagery was in such constant motion that they defied all but a glimpse. And then moments later, like a tent collapsing when its ropes are cut, the vision is gone. Leaving only a struggle of words to explain it, since nothing before or after has come close to this experiences visual majesty.



As we go thru day to day life, the 5-ht1a brain serotonin filters (gates, or day to day survival filters as I like to call them) which make up over 80% of brain 5-ht are in place so that we will not be overwhelmed by the perception of the way things would appear to an un-filtered mind, or "Mind at Large" as Aldous Huxley describes it in "Doors of Perception" as "infinite or eternal". He also referred to the visions as coming from "the other world" in his book "Moksha". I prefer to think of it in similar terms as well "the spirit world" or "the other world": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_at_Large

5-ht1a inhibition by entheogens (in green above) theoretically cause this filter system to be lifted, and the infinite mind to manifest in combination with oral dmt with the tetrahydroharmine providing the 5-ht1a inhibition & additional adrenal system agonization (A2A thru A2C), just as bufotenine in snuff's provide the 5-ht1a inhibition combined with the dmt in the snuff's, resulting in a 3 hour experience ie both examples of Teamwork on how these entheogens are used traditionally in the Amazon.

Thomas S. Ray's study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate. Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

Tetrahydroharmine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is an SRI found in caapi. In other words, both are strong serotonin reuptake inhibitors which inhibit over 80% of brain 5-ht at 5-ht1a.

In contrast, as an example, Cocaethylene (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, the orally active & potent ingredient formed in the liver from cocaine + ethanol in the 1860's "Vin Mariani" wine popular with both Popes, Thomas Edison and scores of other famous people) increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor [SNDRI; also known as a "triple reuptake inhibitor"].

Cocaethylene has a higher affinity for the dopamine transporter than does cocaine, but has a lower affinity for the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters. In McCance-Katz et alia's 1993 study cocaethylene "produced greater subjective ratings of 'High' in comparison with administration of cocaine or alcohol alone."

69ron on harmalas:
Quote:

Ayahuasca is Banisteriopsis caapi. It contains mostly harmine and tetrahydroharmine (THH). B. caapi itself contains no DMT and can be used as is to produce visionary states that are like mental day dreams which lack true visual content. Often admixtures are used to increase the visual content of the ayahuasca dreams. Most admixture plants contain DMT.

Harmine & THH used alone, can produce a mild dreamy psychedelic experience in which daydreams or lucid dreams can be experienced if the user chooses to do so. These dreams from the harmalas alone are vague and lack visual content, but usually have story lines and can be quite complex just like a real dream. The harmalas allow one to go in and out of dream consciousness at will. It takes some practice to learn how to enter a lucid dream with the harmalas alone. The harmalas won’t make you enter a lucid dream. You have to do it yourself by allowing your mind to drift off into a lucid dream.

DMT used alone, produces an intense visual experience, often very chaotic and fast moving, and quite amazing to watch. The visions of DMT alone usually lack meaningful content. The DMT visions are often just constantly morphing colors and shapes. Most of it makes absolutely no sense. Rarely will the visuals present to you a full blown dream with people, places, a story line, etc. But this does sometimes happen. But usually you just get a bunch of bazaar visions that are difficult to understand.

When combined, as in Ayahuasca, the harmalas brings a dreamy quality to the DMT experience that makes it more like one is experiencing an actual dream, not just a bunch of fancy colors. With the two together, you have the visuals of DMT, plus the dream content of the harmalas. The harmalas are the boss here in this combination if used in Ayahuasca proportions where the harmalas are not just used as an MAOI but is used specifically to allow dream consciousness to be entered by the user. DMT is just an additive used to increase the visual portion of the harmala induced dreams.

Using harmalas in very low doses, just as an MAOI, is not the same as using properly made Ayahuasca. If the harmalas are used in low doses just for it’s MAOI effects, the trip lacks dream content and is just a bunch of bazaar DMT visual effects. This is not Ayahuasca-like, it’s just orally activated DMT. That’s not the same. Its true that some Ayahuasca is prepared this way, but such Ayahuasca is considered inferior by most natives. With Ayahuasca, the DMT is just an additive, not the main course. This is why Ayahausca made with only caapi is still called Ayahuasca and considered nearly as powerful as Ayahuasca made with additive plants containing DMT.

This is something a lot of people don’t get. Ayahuasca is not simple orally activated DMT. It is the dream consciousness effects of the harmalas that are at play in Ayahuasca. In order to experience lucid dreams from harmine + THH without DMT, you need to practice a lot. But once you know how to do it, you don’t need DMT added to it anymore, unless you want the extra visual depth that DMT adds to the dreams.

So, “Dmt Or Ayahuasca?”, well that question is a personal question. Some people prefer DMT-less ayahuasca. Some people prefer just orally activated DMT. Some people prefer Ayahuasca with a side order of DMT. Some people prefer the truly bazaar effects of smoked DMT alone.

My personal opinion is that DMT alone is FUN and can be quite frightening. It’s like a roller coaster ride and I like roller coasters. But don’t expect a deep meaningful life changing experience from it. Its pure visual FUN and nothing more. If I want a more meaningful experience I’d use an oral Ayahuasca extract, or a smoked Yopo extract (not as effective as ayahuasca because Yopo is low on harmala-like alkaloids)

Authentic Ayahuasca, high in harmine & THH, and low on DMT, is like entering a full blown 3D dream with dream characters, storylines, etc. This can be a life changing experience. It’s more like sitting in a theater for several hours absorbing a story that’s meaningful because its about you. You leave with memories of places, things, people, etc., and possibly a new view on life.




Edited by tregar (02/07/22 06:23 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetregar
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278401 - 04/22/21 06:01 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 3: 300mg Tetrahydroharmine (THH) teaching visions all by itself
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Ayahuasca closed eye visions using 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine or THH and HPBCD complexed DMT (30mg on up) together surpass in magnificence anything I have ever seen in reality or in works of art.

With open eyes, all spiritual things such as nature, art, female form, beauty, joy, take on significant meaning with infinite beauty, just like with cactus or LSD. Extraordinary beauty is manifested with open eyes and with the visions one sees with closed eyes. Impossible neon-like colors are seen that don't exist on this Earth.

The existence of a higher spiritual plane is recognized to which insight can and must be gained, yet it does not reject the mundane reality as inferior or empty. This joyous embracement of the world of form leads to words like infinite pleasure, beauty and joy. This loving reappraisal of the worldly forms leads the way to higher divine planes.

At 9pm one night, took another 100mg of THH, for a total of 350mg of THH for afternoon & night, before I fell asleep, I watched dream-like monochrome imagery (usually always in green or blue for me) as the THH was still working...I viewed mind-blowing vistas--grand architecture and cities, a bookshelf full of ancient books, a view of the gardens in front of what looked like Versailles, France.

I traveled down a street in Midieval period where I saw beautiful women walking along the street, I could make out the houses & markets along the street. Many of these visions are like slow speed movies being played, way beyond 4k, highly detailed...true Ayahuasca visions...this always happens when I take at least 300mg or more of tetrahydroharmine during the late afternoon/early night. This is one of the best parts of the journey imho.

I've taken 300mg of THH on it's own many times and for hours with eyes closed I view endless dream-like visions, like slow and high speed movies being played for several hours...totally unlike normal dreams, she seems to tap into the "Akashic record" of the universe, the ether where all events, past, present, and future are stored...she shows you artwork, architecture, nature, culture, fantasy, history, the future, spiritual, supernatural. The visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest.

Tetrahydroharmine was called by one researcher "the tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" to give an example of her remarkable visionary properties. She is an isomer of a hormonal-like compound found in the brain naturally, she is what gives Ayahuasca her telapathine or telethapy properties and CEV dream-like visionary power.

300mg THH in Caapi is just as visual as 100mg harmaline but without the nausea and dizziness. At 300mg she gives one several hours of incredible closed eye realistic visions, this places her very high on the "psychedelic periodic table" for visions compared to just about any other entheogen.

It's like entering a university, she teaches you for hours with not only sequential visions one after another, but visions seen in continuous slow and high speed movies. She tells you a story for a long period. There is a theme to it all each time, the beautiful visions never repeat session to session. I only rarely go beyond 300mg THH, as a little dizziness sets in above 300mg for sure. No dizziness at 250mg, only a tiny bit at 300mg.

Several weeks ago, after drinking 300mg tetrahydroharmine, I saw the interior decorations of palaces, the checkered floors, the beautiful windows and furniture, the winding stair cases, I was blown away.

I've seen sacred temples for religious worship, beautiful animals and super fine women, birds of all kinds, even the lost city of Atlantis, I was taken in for a bird's eye view, zooming in from way above to all the way down into the city center.

Caapi tells a story when you drink it with eyes closed, she teaches you things, the most beautiful "realistic visions" that no other entheogen comes close to showing you, these realistic visions go on forever with Caapi, I can recline and watch for 2 hours or more the visions, the visions are quite powerful. You can take additional THH hours later to bring back the visions again for another 45 minutes, the doses are additive.

Pic: 300mg of THH showed me closed eye vision of gardens at Versailles, France


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 12:09 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetregar
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278402 - 04/22/21 06:02 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little off topic, but I think tetrahydroharmine is a pretty special compound. I've used 250mg of it to potentiate cactus to very strong levels, it makes a 12" medium san pedro cactus tea which may contain around 250mg mescaline feel like an X-large 12" thick san pedro cactus containing around 400mg mescaline. It makes a 12" thick bridgesii cactus feel closer to a tea made with a 12" bridgesii cactus along with an extra 6" piece.

In the data I've seen for THH, it strongly blocks serotonin just like cactus, but also agonizes the adrenal A2A thru A2C receptors (the receptors associated with aesthetics & beauty), just like mescaline has been shown to do receptorome wise, explaining perhaps why they "overlap" so well. THH being able to make mescaline in cactus feel much stronger than it really is. Anyone who has ever taken cactus or high dose THH knows the appreciation for beauty experienced is "over the top".

But you have to stagger the THH from the cactus by taking the tetrahydroharmine around an hour after the cactus is taken, that way any minor maoi's or rima's in the cactus won't interact with the SRI which is THH, which can result in a faster heartbeat for a few hours which has happened to me before...so long as you take it later, it potentiates the cactus quite incredibly...it feels like I've taken 400mg of mescaline containing cactus tea when it's really only 250mg mescaline containing cactus, and they both lasts around 6 hours with super strong activity, so they wind down at around the same time. I have around 7 months experience combining the two, giving myself around 2 weeks apart from journeys.

It works so well, I won't take cactus any other way from now on. I get much more mileage from cactus this way. Visuals and visions are insane, music is so good sounding, you would think you were an alien experiencing sound and music for the very first time, every instrument stands out on it's own, like hearing a track for the very first time.

Always take the san pedro, bridgesii or torch cactus first (they all contain trace maoi like actives)...then take the THH one hour later, in that order, then the journey is pure bliss and no negative interactions. Beautiful combo beyond belief, just like the combo of THH + LSD or THH + mushrooms. 


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 12:10 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetregar
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27278404 - 04/22/21 06:02 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 5: Chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD complexed prohormones for sublingual use (millions of dollars in sales) & bloodwork studies
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Several years ago, before "prohormones" were banned (they were legal for 10 years), there was a company called "Ergopharm" ran by chemist Patrick Arnold. Ergopharm had sales in the millions due to their hot selling HPBCD complexed 4-androstenediol (Cyclodiol, see attached pic).

Patent granted to Patrick Arnold:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Arnold

In 2001 Arnold's company introduced the prohormone 4-Androstenediol, under the marketing name 4-AD. 4-AD is a prohormone that is easily converted by the body into testosterone at a rate of 95%, and it sold well. He is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM).

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/ask-patrick-arnold-11/
hxxps://thinksteroids.com/articles/ask-patrick-arnold-11/

I bought and used the sublingual HPBCD cyclodiol when it became available and it was very effective, had my testosterone level checked with a blood test at the local labcore one hour after administering the sublingual powder under my tongue (dissolved in less than 10 minutes) and it was 3,500 ng/dl ! when my normal level was 600ng/dl. Highest measured normal levels in men are around 1200 ng/dl. The blood test cost me $70.00. The sublingual HPBCD complexed pro-hormone would cause the 4-ad to enter the bloodstream via sublingual mucosa under tongue, and convert to testosterone via enzyme activity once in the bloodstream. Patrick invented the pro-hormone 4-ad or 4-androstenediol, which converts to testosterone at a rate of 95%.

Patrick Arnold's sublingual powder of HPBCD complexed 4-AD could be grabbed from the bottle with a pre-measured scooper, and the powder need only be held under tongue for less than 10 minutes. The HPBCD complexed DMT on the other hand dissolves in 15 minutes or less under tongue, as it is a slightly higher dosage.

Before Patrick started his company, he used to post on "deja-news" bodybuilding news group (defunct now but bought out and owned currently by Google) and would explain to bodybuilders how to complex HPBCD powder to 4-androstenediol at home using a spoon, drops of hot water, end of another spoon to mix and crush all ingredients together, lighter to heat up, etc. I learned his technique back then, and created my own HPBCD complexed 4-ad for sublingual use just like hundreds of other bodybuilders who read his postings and asked questions daily, there are logs of this that would fill up a book.

Later, the pharmaceutical industry picked up on his idea and started marketing sublingual HPBCD testosterone base (read the 3 studies in the link above from Patrick's column at MesoRx midway thru), which worked remarkably well to raise the testosterone of hypogonadal men to the high-normal level when absorbed under the tongue.

Pic: Ergopharm's hot selling cyclodiol powder, HPBCD complexed 4-androstenediol, when used sublingually, converted into testosterone at a rate of 95% via enzyme activity once it quickly entered the bloodstream from the sublingual mucosa.


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:28 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetregar
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27278405 - 04/22/21 06:05 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With Insufflation, sublingual or rectal, DMT is not broken down by monoamine oxidase.

However, tetrahydroharmine and harmine both work to block the inactivation of DMT by MAO localized within the mitochondria of the cells of the brain, this also greatly extends the half-life of the DMT.

See above paper from Narang et al, Intl J Pharm Sci, Vol 3, Suupl 2, 2011, 18-22:
"With sublingual or "under the tongue", the mucosea thickness is only 100-200, high permeability with rich blood supply, much better than buccal or gingival & palatal, 200, 250, 500 micrometer respectively, shuttling the drug directly to bloodstream." The DMT is not broken down via monamine oxidase whatsoever this way. It avoids the liver and first pass metabolism. The drug is rapidly absorbed via the rich blood supply vessels under the tongue rather than being broken down in the digestive track via the enzyme monamine oxidase. According to paper: "Sublingually administered drugs reach directly in to the blood stream through the ventral surface of the tongue and floor of the mouth. The drug solutes are rapidly absorbed into the reticulated vein which lies underneath the oral mucosa, and transported through the facial veins, internal jugular vein, and braciocephalic vein and then drained in to systemic circulation."

According to paper, "the absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection. Peak blood levels of most products administered sublingually are achieved within 10 to 15 minutes, which is generally much faster than when those same drugs are ingested orally." This has been my experience as well, after 10 minutes of sublingual under tongue application, 5 minutes after the 10 minute sublingual absorption, the DMT rush is felt, followed by 60 to 90 minutes of entheogenic activity. According to paper, "sublingual absorption of drugs is efficient. The percent of each dose absorbed is generally higher than that achieved by means of oral ingestion."

Smoked: If DMT is smoked, the maximal effects last for a short period of time (5 to 30 minutes, dose-dependent). The onset after inhalation is very fast (less than 45 seconds) and maximal effects are reached within about a minute.

Insufflation & Sublingual absorption via Oral Mucosa (under tongue): When DMT is insufflated (snorted through the nostrils) or absorbed sublingually the duration is markedly increased.

Injection: Injected DMT produces an experience similar to inhalation in duration, intensity, and characteristics.

Oral ingestion: DMT, which is broken down by the digestive enzyme monoamine oxidase, is practically inactive if taken orally, unless combined with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI).


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:29 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetregar
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27278406 - 04/22/21 06:06 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FYI: The THH is an SRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor with significant adrenal activity at A2A thru A2C receptors, similar to mescaline in that regard), it has super weak MAOI activity (see Wikipedia on tetrahydroharmine).

I looked up the data comparing RIMA activity of THH to harmine from a lab supplier who gave the data, and they referenced THH as only having around 1/100th the RIMA strength of harmine, practically non-existent strength as a RIMA. That would mean it would take 20,000mg of THH to equal 200mg of harmine in RIMA strength. Harmine & harmaline however have significant RIMA/MAOI activity.

How to best describe THH or tetrahydroharmine:

THH alone (200 to 300mg) with open eyes = everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day, just like professor8 describes it. A study done once on the UDV found that brews with high levels of tetrahydroharmine were preferred over all other brews, they found the "dmt was not the main attraction" but actually brews high in THH, fascinating study.

With 300mg THH, closed eye dream-like Ayahuasca visions actually form with closed eyes that begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours, These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT seems to add color and brightness to the visions. The DMT also of course adds strong psychedelic alterations & activity to the journey and enhances the quality of music in combo with THH, music sounds incredible as mentioned before for several hours, especially if you keep taking the sublingual DMT around once every 1.5 hour for the next 4.5 hours.

Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 90mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least a dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.

After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! All of the experiences were +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt.

This agrees with what I read from clearlight:
Quote:

Clearlight experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.



Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:
Quote:

Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.

Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.

An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.

I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.

It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?

With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.

When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.


However, at this point, I have noticed that ALL the dried Hawaiian psychotria is extinct, and is no longer available. But no worries, HPBCD complexed DMT feels the void very well, and is much more potent than plain DMT which is absorbed poorly via the oral or sublingual route. Studies show HPBCD when complexed to drugs like DMT improve drug penetration x 4 factors or 400% when used sublingually or orally.

In one past journey with 30g Hawaiian psychotria, saw three beautiful naked woman dancers twirling in front of stone pillars that rotated slowly. Jungle scenes lit up by the moonlight, full of snakes and palm trees by the beach and lots of people I had known in my life in floating bubbles that were to the left and right of the scene, drifting up into the sky. Elephants from India embellished with vibrantly colored jhools (saddle cloth) and heavy jewellery and sparkling anklets. Detached female faces of breath-taking beauty with freckles. Waterfalls in the middle of the jungle.

With another session, saw barely dressed women wearing futuristic clothing and bikinis of some sort, dazzling in it's design. A spinning vortex made of blue color with closed eyes that opened up in front of me that looked like a wormhole of some sort, I travelled inside of it, and was dropped off on an island in the pacific with wooden Tikis all around the perimeter of a small culture. I saw a chalkboard full of mathematical equations and scientific discoveries drawn out. I flew like a bird for nearly a minute over what looked like Los Angeles, as I could see the homes with swimming pools and parks below me.

I've seen pyramids adorned with gold sheen, architecture of the past and future, Egyptian scenery, vast landscapes, medieval scenery, it goes on and on. Everything is brand new as if newly created. Very similar to the Ayahuasca visions encountered by Benny Shanon in "Antipodes of the Mind".


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:31 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetregar
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278410 - 04/22/21 06:08 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has the Mystery of the Eleusinian Mysteries been solved? by Ivan Valencic
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/valencic.htm

For a visual high dose claviceps paspali (same fresh alkaloid profile as the fresh Mesoamerican Aztec/Mayan morning glory) ergot wine trip report prepared by LSD chemist Todd Skinner, reported in the literature: read Krystle Cole's 3 page report on page 2 post #32 of morning glory link above.

She saw "constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It just so happens that the ancient Aztec and Mayan also added the fresh or dried pulverized morning glory seeds to a drink containing alcohol, they learned this would extract all the stimulating actives from the seeds:

Page 515 "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" Christian Ratsch:
Quote:

The fresh or dried morning glory seeds normally were added by the Aztec and Mayan to alcoholic drinks (sugarcane liquor; c. alcohol), tepache (maize beer, chicha), and balche' (Schultes 1941, 37).




The merck index shows that (1) elymoclavine, (2) agroclavine, (3) chanoclavine & (4) penniclavine in the seeds are best soluble in alcohol (sparingly soluble in water).

(5) Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) in the seeds only survives outside the seeds in an acidic environment (example: such as cold sherry wine which is already at ph=4). LSH decomposes in ionic conditions, neutral water (plain water), when heated, or in alkaline environments. See very bottom attached illustration of how LSH decomposes to LSA unless extracted into acidic water, wine, etc.

Important new 2020 receptorome binding data just came out this year that is available for LSH or Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide found in morning glory seeds. See below:

http://www.t3db.ca/toxins/T3D3687
hxxp://www.t3db.ca/toxins/T3D3687

5-ht2a, 5-ht2b, 5-ht2c, adrenal A1A, adrenal A1B, adrenal A1D, adrenal A2A, adrenal A2B & adrenal A2C

This is important as it shows LSH binds to just about all the adrenal receptors, while LSD only binds to one of the adrenal receptors: A2A in comparison (as far as adrenal receptors are concerned). See chart below: DMT, mescaline & psilocin all bind to many of the adrenal receptors. The adrenal receptors are implicated in the perception of aesthetics, beauty.

This may explain why the semi-synthetic man-made LSD has been perceived by many to have less aesthetic appreciation than the natural entheogens: LSH, mescaline, Ayahuasca (harmine + tetrahydroharmine + harmaline) with Caapi, dmt, psilocin. It's man-made quality may be more perceptable due to it's lack of significant adrenal agonism, which is prominent with the natural entheogens.

Example: Mescaline has a rating of 4.00 at adrenal A2C (see below), 4.00 = max = off the charts, and anyone who has ever consumed cactus knows the appreciation for beauty is "thru the roof" or "over the top".

Important teamwork is going on between LSH and penniclavine in the seeds, the 2 highest alkaloids. Agroclavine and penniclavine in the seeds (metabolite of agroclavine) bind to 5-ht1a, 5-ht2a, 5-ht6, 5-ht7, adrenal A2A, A2C, A2D, and most of the dopamine receptors in comparison. See "Agroclavine & Penniclavine radioligand (receptorome) data, Planta Med. 1996 Oct; 62(5): 387-92."

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
https://journals.plos.or...71/journal.pone.0009019
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max (off the charts), 0.00=min, X.XX=receptor is hit but we don't have strength data.
Quote:

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57
LSD: -A-2D = 0.00, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1A = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1B = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1D = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00




I don't know if you remember morninglory seed from long ago? He was on another forum. Here is one of his old classic posts that makes alot of sense:

morningloryseed:
Quote:

Unlike most alkaloids, LSA is water soluble when it is in its natural, freebase state...the way it is found in the seeds. it is a rare, exception to a rule because by simple definition, alkaloids are very alkaline or basic when in their freebase form as they normally occur in plants. Thus, they do not dissolve well into water. Most likely, many of the other ergoline akaloids probably are not water-soluble in their freebase form and thus are not extracted from the ground seed matter when a "tea" is made. or they get dissolved into the non-polar solvent used when an A/B extract is performed and they are thrown away.

Thus, extracts have a different mix of alkaloids and that is why the trip from A/B extracts or a "tea" of m. g. seeds feels so different than that of the whole seeds. In my vast experience with eating the seeds, and taking extracts, the trip that results is not as good. And I've taken the seeds more than any other psychedelic, except LSD and marijuana. I find them much more narcotic/sedative-like in nature and the effects are really nothing like that which I get from EATING the seeds.

The fact that teas or other extracts feel very different from the trip of the whole seed has also been noted by everyone I've shared m.g. seed tea with, and is a comoon thing reported in trip reports. So this is definitely not a phenomena that I am alone in feeling. Many, many, many people IM or email me with morning glory seed questions and most of them who have tried both have also noted that extracts are not as psychedelic and nowhere near as potent as eating the whole seeds.

The seeds do cause nausea and vomiting (as many other psychedelics like ayahuasca, mescaline, ibogaine, etc.) but a purge, I feel great. Like I said, I think the seeds are one of the best psychedelics, and I have tried quite a number of different ones.

Extractions such as a simple morning glory "tea", or the more complicated A/B extraction, will give you a mixture of different LSA's than those found in the whole seeds. It is the combination of all the ergoline alkaloids in the seeds that make you trip.

The main alkaloid is the mostly sedating LA-111, but many others (up to a dozen or so) including d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (closest molecule to LSD found in nature), are known to occur in the seeds. Together, they have a synergestic efffect and produce a very different kind of experience from pure LA-111. It is (in my opinion) a great trip. One of my favorites. Of course the trip from seeds is very different from LSD. But because it is different than LSD does not mean it is not as good. I think they are both very useful. Some of my most meaningful trips have been with natural lysergic acid amides.




Example page from Merck on agroclavine (found in morning glory seeds):
Quote:

agroclavine is soluble in ethanol, chloroform, pyridine, soluble in benzene and ether, very little water soluble.




From "The Alkaloids: Chemistry and Physiology", page 32:
Quote:

Agroclavine is readily soluble in organic acids, agroclavine is stable to acids", wine stands as one of the sources of organic acids. Page 33 "Elymoclavine is only somewhat soluble in water".


Peter Webster states in "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, the Secrets of Eleusis" in the morning glory chapter that Chanoclavine is soluble in alcohol.

The hard data is lacking on whether the alkaloids in the seeds are in the freebase (like morninglory seed above describes) or in the salt form. Alkaloids such as mescaline and dmt are found in the salt form in the plant, and are readily water soluble. However, these half dozen alkaloids from morning glory are found within the tiny rubbery like embryo found within the seed.

To be on the safe side, extract into wine, as this will extract the alkaloids should they be in freebase form. This will give you an extract that is no different from "eating the seeds". Morninglory above is right in that the plain water extract is no where near similar to "eating the seeds" or an acidic wine extract (editor preferred).

(1) Hermes (the Lycaeum) "Saw strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are around 32 to 36 seeds to a gram. So 12 to 14 grams is 400 seeds to 500 seeds. I extract into water pre-acidified with a squirt of lemon juice. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything. I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing, all of this with nothing more than 500 seeds."

(2) Nogal (the Nook) "Yes I know of someone who tried the CWE method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffee grinder in place of a stone metate (I think that's what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form (again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin)."

(4) Piper methysticum: "Morning Glory seeds are definitely the most euphoric psychedelic I've ever taken during the onset and the first part of the peak. Not even a strong dose of MDA could compete with the euphoria I felt from 12g of Morning Glory seeds. However, the comparison of LSA alkaloids to MDA is ridiculous. The visuals from Morning Glory seeds are quite inconsistent for me. The first time I tried them, at 9g, the visuals were very dull, but the mental and physical aspects were awesome. My second time at 12g, the visuals were beyond amazing. I got the feeling of being completely in a warp through time and visuals were flying past me and unimaginable speeds. A couple of my unexperienced friends were talking about the tracers they were seeing at the same time this was happening to me. I had to laugh. With just 6g my third time, I also had some pretty amazing visuals, though they weren't nearly as mind blowing."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(5) Myself, 400 black hard fresh seeds right off vine, grown in 75% miracle grow & 25% cow manure compost: extracted with 2 shots (60ml) of fresh just opened cold sherry wine with added 10mg of DL tartaric acid powder added (auction sites or *ma*on), and stirred together in the wine really well.

DO NOT ADD MORE THAN 10mg DL tartaric acid to the 2 shots (60ml) of sherry wine...too much DL tartaric acid can upset ph balance of the body and you will feel really bad...10mg will keep ph no lower than 3.5. The wine will go from natural ph=4 down to ph=3.5, but no lower. You will need a 1mg (0.001g) electronic scale to do this, like the AWS GPR-20 20g x 0.001g scale for example. It needs to be DL tartaric acid and not just plain L tartaric acid, The d-form salt is the form LSD is active as for example, not the L-form.

You crush the seeds inbetween a paper plate with ends folded in, you hammer the plate on a concrete surface, then you add the crushed seed powder to a coffee grinder, and grind it till it is nearly a dust...then you add the dust like seed powder to the 60ml of cold sherry wine in a tall 1/2 pint jar, then you let it sit in fridge for 3 hours, with shaking & stirring once per hour.

Then at the end of 3 hour period, you decant off the top liquid from the seed debris at the bottom....filter the sherry wine liquid thru a cotton ball in a funnel which sits in a jar, change out the cotton ball when or if it clogs, I usually have to change the cotton ball out once or twice, the top of the cotton will turn black or dark brown. The cotton ball will remove ALL the nauseating debris from the sherry wine/seed mixture. You will be left with a golden clear to light brown golden liquid, this is what you drink--no nausea as all the debris has been removed!

Before you consume, always remember to keep the 2 shot sherry wine extract of the morning glory seeds cold at all times (in the fridge) as acetaldehyde boils off at room temp or 69 degree F. You don't want your LSH decomposing to LSA do you? You can freeze it too if you plan to use it at a later time.

I saw geometric patterns on the surface of everything, with closed eyes, colored vectors spun 360 degrees while traveling from left to right across visual plane. Sounds were not only amplified & music heavenly but audio hallucinations were produced, heavy euphoria component & very strong appreciation for beauty. Remember watching Scarlett Johansson interview on a small television and melting into the seat from her beauty amidst all the breath taking geometrics. Tripped hard as hell.

Note: Cold sherry cooking wine is recommended as an extraction solution since it is already at ph=4 and is 18% alcohol, and is also very cheap ($5 per bottle). It can be found in the wine isle of any grocery store, and is often on sale. It also contains 10mg acetaldehyde per each shot (30ml). A $9 wine preserver canister can be bought at Amazon which contains a gas mixture of argon, carbon dioxide & other inert gases which can be sprayed into an open bottle of sherry wine before sealing cork to preserve the wine indefinitely, otherwise the acetaldehyde in the wine converts to acetic acid over time, giving the wine a vinegar taste. The wine preserver contains enough gas to last for years of sealing many bottles.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2016 Polish morning glory study found 3x higher amounts of LSH in MG seeds direct from grower/producer vs retail:
Quote:

seeds direct from growers: 1.71 LSH to 5.08 penniclavine ratio
seeds off retail racks: 0.54 LSH to 4.75 penniclavine ratio



Immediately vacuum pack and freeze freshly picked dark hard black seeds off vine to preserve potency indefinitely.

Erowid report:
Quote:

400 older dried seeds is similar to a little less than one hit LSD. 400 fresh off vine is like about 2 or three hits.




dmthead420:
Quote:

Seems this does do alot more, its alot more refined, clean, less body high all mind high.. i extracted 700 riveas into 100 ml of lemon juice , 50ml water .. that sat 9hrs in the fridge(water stayed the color of lemon juice but smelled like alkaloids) i filtered and added 100ml of sherry wine and that sat 6hours..

A buddy and i sampled 12ml of this and the effect is way different from just eating the seeds or just a simple water extract..

No body feelings AT ALL, not even the normal body buzz.. just a extreme lsd like head and abstract thoughts, better sense of understanding.... Real soon i am def going to try a large dose ..I Feel GreaT...I will no longer do it any other way.....my friend says the same.




Norman said on 16 September 2019:
Quote:

Years ago I stumbled across a simple method for dosing HBWR.
Grind the seeds and cover them with white wine, let sit in the fridge for a day or so, shaking occasionally, decant, filter and drink.
No nausea no aches no vasoconstriction.
I am now off alcohol completely so I’m thinking of an alternative method short of a full on extraction.
I’m convinced that something in the wine besides water and alcohol is what makes the trip so clean. I’ve tried twelve percent water alcohol mixes in the past and still had the nasty side effects and at the same time the trip is not as strong.
I’m thinking acetaldehyde and or tartaric acid may be involved or at least a good place to start.
Any thought on what chemically may be going on?




Vecktor (advanced chemist):
Quote:

tregar, you have probably rediscovered something that has long been a curiosity, for example on the now defunct blacklight site there was TLC posted of morning glory seed extract treated with methanol, acetaldehyde-methanol or with acetaldehyde-methanol-water, the extract treated with acetaldehyde-methanol showed a clear difference in the alkaloid profile, with a shift to several new non polar spots which couldn't be identified. IIRC Erhlichs was used to develop the plates so these were indole compounds.




69ron:
Quote:

I know some of you out there are apt to believe the statements above because you've failed at making LSH and those statements above help you feel better about you're failure. Don't fall victim to that kind of crap. Try it again. Find out what you did wrong. When it works, the difference is HUGE, not a tiny difference, the experience is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. SWIM knows the effects of LSA and LSD very well. He’s used them many times. He guarantees that when the reaction works, there is NO NOTICEABLE LSA left at all in the experience. It becomes almost identical to an LSD experience at low doses. Totally different from LSA.

According to Albert Hofmann (the inventor of LSD), LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde. Adducts are very simple to make. You just mix them in solution, that's all.

The effect of adding acetaldehyde is HUGE. SWIM cannot feel any leftover LSA when the process is done right. So, like I said, I think those guys don't know what they're talking about and I believe Hoffman does, and that LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde and nothing more. No complex reaction is needed to make it. You just mix the two together and LSH forms. And I believe all of the LSA forms LSH, not just a small amount of it because you cannot feel any of the effects of LSA after this is done right.

When the conversion from LSA to LSH is complete it feels COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The reason some people can't tell the difference is because their conversion failed. It doesn't always works, but when it does, the difference in effects are night and day. No one would ever think the effects of LSH are anything at all like LSA. It's that different.




fastandbulbous (chem wizard from bluelight):
Quote:

Apparently N-(1-hydroxyethyl)lysergamide (LSH) is an adduct compound formed from lysergamide (lysergic acid amide, LSA/LAA, LA-111) and acetaldehyde. This hints towards the idea that isn't the most stable of compounds, but would be pretty easily formed by the combination of lysergamide (LSA) & acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (ie a way to get much more & better psychedelic activity from any lysergamide extracted from seed sources).




Chemist Peter Webster who spoke at the LSD symposium:
Quote:

LSH is a labile adduct of ergine (LSA) and acetaldehyde.




Mid April: I am growing a small fence line of heavenly blue morning glory, so I will let you all know how my new dream experiences go this October or November when I pick them out of the pods once hard and black, then immediately freeze them. The seeds all sprouted only 1 week after planting the seeds in the 75% miracle grow mixed with 25% cow manure compost, both from big box home store. I dug a small 2 to 3" trench into ground, and filled it with the soil mix, planted one seed every few inches, 95% of them sprouted one week later after watering them daily. I feed them 1 tablespoon of miracle grow powder mixed into 1 gallon of water in watering can x once a month only. This will yield seeds of very high potency.

The application of NPK fertilizer (miracle grow) + composted cattle manure increased crop yield by 48.9% compared to NPK fertilizer alone ---> from 2017 Frontiers in Microbiology, 05 Sept 2017 "Composted Cattle Manure Increases Microbial Activity and Soil Fertility." Some users report that their plants grew three times in size once they added miracle grow soil to their existing potting soil.

As you can see, I used zinc #212 "screw eyes" from hardware section of big box store screwed into fence after drilling a tiny hole for each one, and strung fishing line inbetween the eyelits, this supports the vine, this is how I have grown for years. Train the vine horizontally on the fishing line if you want and once the vine reaches top of 5' fence, it can cross over top of fence and continue to grow or droop downwards on opposite side, for many extra feet of growth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steps in the morning glory extraction (see very bottom attached photo):

I would suggest doing this under low light conditions, I personally replace a lamp in room with an LED Red bulb I found at grocery store in hardware section for five dollars when normally doing this.

1. eight grams weighed out on folded over paper plate, then hammered in between plate on concrete with hammer.

2. then the hammered mush was further ground in coffee grinder.

3. mush sitting in one half pint tall jar. (these jars can be found in canning section of stores)

4. 2 oz (60ml) of cold sherry wine added to mush and transferred to fridge for 20 minutes, shook hard every 5 minutes. (Shake hard three times or every 5 minutes during the 20 minute soak)

5. after 20 minutes in fridge observe course debris at bottom.

6. after 20 minutes in fridge, then filtered thru a cotton ball in a funnel, press on cotton ball using straw when dripping stops to get all remaining light colored wine solution out.

7. observe wine solution dripping thru cotton ball, solution is light colored and free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris!

8. closeup of 1st cotton ball in funnel after filtration, it took out ALOT of dark colored debris that is nauseating to stomach and intestines.

9. closeup of first cotton ball used for filtration, super dirty black at top 1/3rd portion.

10. first cotton ball changed out half way thru process, as it clogged, then replaced with a 2nd cotton ball to filter out remaining liquid which was in the funnel.

11. The end! 1.5 oz liquid collected from starting 2.0 oz, put back into fridge until use. Heavy nutty flavor, 100 percent free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris. All the actives remain in solution while the debris has all been eliminated. Prepare for a very euphoric and lucid visual trip with deep insights...combines extremely well with other entheogens as well.

12) Wine solution when dabbed on cue tip and touched to paper plate, glows bright blue

13) Her, underground house DJ

Pics appear to be posted backwards, no matter how I re-list them, 1st photo at very right, then in sequence from right to left. Very bottom photo of screen = step #2 the coffee grinder.

Stay true to yourself, Love, Peace and Music
http://www.friskyradio.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In closing: morning glory compared with HBWR:

Please keep in mind that HBWR has high levels of ergometrine, causes cramping and vasoconstriction, ergometrine levels in morning glory for comparison is very low. Also, HBWR has no history of Shamanic use, whereas morning glory seed usage goes back several hundreds of years. HBWR only has history of medicinal use. HBWR also has high levels of LSA, very sedating and not really all that psychedelic at all. But yes, all studies published after 2011 indicate that no LSH has been found yet in HBWR.

Interestingly, when a boy was found dead at the bottom of his apartment building (he jumped out, apparently this really does happen), they detected levels of LSH or Lysergic acid Hydroxyethylamide in his blood, he had also been drinking heavily and taking HBWR seeds that night. Here is the actual toxicology study:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20018470/
hxxps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20018470/

Remember, LSH is just a labile (unstable) adduct of LSA + acetaldehyde which can remain stable in acidic solutions, for example: outside the body in ph=4.0 cold fresh just opened sherry wine solution (under 70 degree F so the acetaldehyde does not boil off), and sherry is high in acetaldehyde. And you have to seal off the wine with a ten dollar wine preservation canister of inert argon gas (from *mazon with enough gas to last years of sealing) you shoot into the bottle, before placing back into the fridge, to keep the acetaldehyde from decomposing to vinegar via oxidation. Keep cold at all times. Whether this forms outside the liver as well as within is a whole nother discussion.

This is the paper that shows the alkaloid content of HBWR is vastly different from the alkaloid content of morning glory: Paulke A, Kremer C, Wunder C, Wurglics M, Schubert-Zsilavecz M, Toennes SW. Identification of legal highs—ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products. Forensic Sci Int. 2014;242:62–71.

No high levels of stimulating LSH, agroclavine, elymoclavine, chanoclavine, penniclavine found in HBWR seeds, only in morning glory seeds. A 2014 forensics paper from Paulke found no LSH in HBWR seeds, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest minimal: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine.

Sandgrease: "HBWR has more of a sedative effect compared to MG."

Nogal: "HBWR is more body related while MG seeds have effects more similar to LSD."

Pic1: The Aztec & Mayan extracted the morning glory seeds into wine and alcoholic solutions, 2016 Polish morning glory pics.

Pic2: Steps in the wine morning glory extraction, pics listed from end to beginning in reverse order.

Pic3: LSA adducts

Pic 4: Left: old 1970's morning glory data, right: new 2016 Polish mg study data

Pic 5: Eleusis ruins where the sacred psychoactive entheogenic Kykeon was drunk by initiates in ancient Greece, Eleusis participants, top: LSH compared to LSD, bottom: morning glory alkaloids, right: paspalum grass infected with claviceps paspali ergot which grows on the famous Rarian plain adjacent to Eleusis contains the same alkaloid profile as the sacred Aztec & Mayan morning glory.

attached: 2016 Polish morning glory study


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 04:51 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTheMagicConch
MC
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/11/20
Posts: 841
Loc: Over here
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27279253 - 04/23/21 12:37 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

This is a load of awesome info! Thanks!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTyperwritermonky
shboop a doop a doop


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 5,375
Loc: Mrs. Brown's Teahouse
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: TheMagicConch]
    #27279840 - 04/23/21 09:42 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

THH is the best harmaline or MAOI for psychedelic journies for me, they called it telepanine for a reason.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineIcon
Bloomer
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 2,866
Last seen: 4 hours, 35 seconds
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27280726 - 04/24/21 06:52 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, thanks Tregar! This is the first I'm hearing about HPBCD and I'm already a huge fan of THH. I've been praising it for years and you've very clearly summarized why it is so special. In my experience, oral Caapi extracts containing THH are my favorite way to take DMT. People that have have only tried syrian rue are truly missing out. Mescaline is the only thing that can compete with THH Ayahuasca so my mind is blown to learn that you can combine THH with mescaline too! Have you ever taken Ayahuasca and cactus at the same time? I vaporized DMT on cactus and it is a combination that I can only describe as sacred.

Can you please PM me some advice on where to source HPBCD and THH? I have one caapi/THH vendor but it's sporadic. I'm all in for supporting the development of these experiences in modern society. The 60-90 minute trip duration sounds like a great option when smoking is too short and eating is too long.

I'm looking forward to experimenting with the HPBCD later. I have some questions: 

Can you clarify how complexed DMT freebase is stronger than say, DMT fumarate when taken orally? If the complexing is just to make it water soluble, wouldn't both options be equal when swallowed?
Why don't people sublingually take DMT salts?
Would the ethanol-prepared complexed DMT be dry enough to insufflate?
Could it be made into a nasal spray or inhaler?

"With Insufflation, sublingual or rectal, DMT is not broken down by monoamine oxidase."
Doesn't inhaling also bypass the MAO? I know from experience that harmine also potentiates and extends DMT inhaled through the lungs. So there must be MAO either in the lungs or blood stream. Makes me think MAOI's are a universal potentiator; even if you smoke, snort, sub or boof.


Edited by Icon (04/24/21 07:32 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTyperwritermonky
shboop a doop a doop


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 5,375
Loc: Mrs. Brown's Teahouse
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Icon]
    #27280869 - 04/24/21 09:59 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

HPBCD can be purchased online, or eBay, without arousing any sort of suspicion.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetregar
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Typerwritermonky] * 1
    #27281212 - 04/25/21 07:41 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for comments TheMagicConch, typewritermonkey (I know you, good to see you again!), Icon, RoadAppleSnapple & Jomanda1990. Very nice to meet you all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is how I got into growing morning glory, thought would share as I feel it was more a message from the Aztec Shaman, also goes to show the visual power of high dose LSD made from ergot alkaloids, this really happened.

Over 12 years ago, girlfriend and I both dropped 10 hits each of super old 15 year old decomposed acid given to us by a dear friend, he had stored it in between the pages of a book all that time without using a baggie, when held in front of blacklight, only around 60% of each blotter glowed, rest decomposed. It had a sick feeling for the first 2 hours, but then it worked and skyrocketed us to a higher divine plane, it was very strong.

She and I both saw the exact same vision for 20 minutes straight which had formed out of the shadows cast by the fake Christmas tree lights onto the wall--a 20 minute "schooling" by an ancient powerful & spiritually prominent Shaman from Aztec era --- I have never had an experience like that ever again to this day--it was a once in a lifetime opportunity.

The Shaman sat on a living chair made of spirit animals (birds, jaguars, otters, pumas, macaws, toucans) that morphed into other animals constantly, to the left and right of him were centaurs (half animal below, half naked female above), the great Pyramid of the Aztec capital behind him, and he showed me the rise and fall of several civilizations throughout time--and what is even more amazing--is that we both saw the exact same vision.

The Shaman wore a huge beautiful headdress made of feathers and the detail of the 20 minute animated vision was beyond 4k, and extremely detailed--it was also the vision in which I saw snakevines behind the centaurs, and before the Shaman left us at the end, he motioned to me with his eyes to look to the right of the living room out the window into the patio area where I had an empty garden plot--he was trying to tell me to plant entheogenic plants in the plot--that spring, summer & fall I grew morning glory in that plot on a large wide & tall wooden trellis cemented into the ground.

His point in showing me the rise and fall of the different civilizations was that I believe he was trying to tell me that "if humanity is to survive, the only hope is a Spiritual Solution".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In conclusion, post #8 continued here, ends here:

Below (1-6) from 1975 paper "Extraction and Identification of Clavine and Lysergic acid alkaloids from morning glory", see end of post #8 at top for latest "2016 attached 12 page paper", valuable morning glory study on LSH & other alkaloid levels found in morning glory from 3 different vendors, all levels very similar, collected from heavenly blue mg from 3 different regions located far apart.

The attached 2016 Polish morning glory study at end of post #8 (is somewhat similar to the 1975 study) except it shows penniclavine and LSH to be the 2 highest alkaloids, with the other alkaloids filling in the lower percentage.

https://kb.osu.edu/bitstream/handle/1811/22310/V075N4_198.pdf?sequence=1
hxxps://kb.osu.edu/bitstream/handle/1811/22310/V075N4_198.pdf?sequence=1

1) elymoclavine = approx 17% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with elymoclavine, that they were stimulated MORE than when they were given LSD.

2) agroclavine = approx 25% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed than when animals were injected with agroclavine, that they were stimulated MORE than when they were given LSD.

3) chanoclavine = approx 7% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with chanoclavine, that they were stimulated just as much as when given LSD.

4) penniclavine = approx 25% plus of the heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with penniclavine, that they were stimulated just as much as when given LSD.

5) D-Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) = approx 25% plus of the heavenly blue mg. If the seeds are not frozen & stored properly, then over time LSH decomposes to LSA (Lysergic acid amide). So the seeds may contain a makeup of 1/2 LSH to 1/2 LSA a long while later, like retail rack seeds as the LSH decomposes over time.

6) Ergometrine = approx 5% of the heavenly blue mg.

From the 1957 paper:
Quote:

All members of the excitor group produced in all test animals a syndrome of central sympathetic excitation and elicited a stimulation of spontaneous activity. In this group, elymoclavine, was the most potent stimulant and next come agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, and LSD which are almost equipotent, as judged by the degree of symptoms exhibited in the same dose. The arousal effect of elymoclavine or agroclavine on reserpine-sedation was superior to that of LSD.




Animal experiments have shown that elymoclavine, lysergol, LSD and several other ergot alkaloids such as agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, lysergine and lysergene have excitory effects on the central nervous system (Note 1: Yui & Takeo, 1957) as well as lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) which also excites the central nervous system in animals (Note 2: Glasser, 1961).

The effects of agroclavine are similar to those of elymoclavine and LSD on rabbits (Yui & Takeo, 1957), indicating that the effect of agroclavine may well be psychoactive in humans as well. It also seems likely that agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, lysergine and lysergene and lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) will be psychoactive in humans.

LSH = D-Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide in the seeds, we know it is similar to LAE-32 in TIHKAL, in which human experiments were done, at 1.5mg it was stimulating & "LSD like".

Glasser in 1961 noticed animals also became stimulated when injected with LSH. Dr. Glasser said some of the mice even stood on their hine legs and pressed on the noses of the mice in front of them, very peculiar.

Animal tests all point to LSH being an active psychedelic and it is indeed the closest thing to LSD found in nature, far closer than d-ergine. Owsley claims Hoffman himself told him that LAOH is very LSD-like.

It was Gröger who first discovered LSH in the seeds, published in his 1963 paper "Über das Vorkommen von Ergolinderivaten in Ipomoea-Arten". Later also Hofmann then extracted it from the seeds. It probably was in 1967, as Heim wrote in his work from August 1967 that Hofmann said he recently extracted it from the seeds (personal communication, as they knew each other very well).

LSD----------------------------------------CH2CH3-----CH2CH3.....chemical formula (C20 H25 N3 0)

LAE-32-----------------------------------------H------CH2CH3.....chemical formula (C18 H21 N3 0)

d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide-----------H---------CHOHCH3....chemical formula (C18 H21 N3 02)

Penniclavine-----------------------------------------------------chemical formula (C16 H18 N2 O2)

Notes:
(1) The above experiments with mice, rabbits, cats and dogs who were injected with elymoclavine, agroclavine, chanoclavine alkaloids from morning glory can be found in "Neuropharmacological studies on a new series of ergot alkaloids" "Elymoclavine as a potent analeptic on reserpine-sedation" by tohoru Yui and Yuji Takeo, Hyg 911/LSD 494, Jap. J. Pharmacol. 7, 157 (1957). Jap. J. Pharmacol 7, 157-161 (1957).

(2) LSH experiments on animals: A. Glasser, Nature 189, 313 (1961)

(3) This is the paper that shows the alkaloid content of HBWR is vastly different from the alkaloid content of morning glory: Paulke A, Kremer C, Wunder C, Wurglics M, Schubert-Zsilavecz M, Toennes SW. Identification of legal highs—ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products. Forensic Sci Int. 2014;242:62–71.

No high levels of stimulating LSH, agroclavine, elymoclavine, chanoclavine, penniclavine found in HBWR seeds, only in morning glory seeds. A 2014 forensics paper from Paulke found no LSH in HBWR seeds, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest minimal: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine.

We know that MG has centuries of Shamanic use, while HBWR has no history of Shamanic use. HBWR only has history of medicinal use.

Sandgrease: "HBWR has more of a sedative effect compared to MG."

Nogal: "HBWR is more body related while MG seeds have effects more similar to LSD."

4) Aum_Shanti, 2019, "In fresher seeds there's mainly LSH (in relation to LSA). Only in old seeds, the LSA is dominant. This is because the fungi on the plant can only biosynthesize LSH (not LSA), and LSA is then a decomposition product of LSH over time. The fungi on the vines biosynthesize:

from tryptophan-->chanoclavine-->agroclavine-->elymoclavine-->lysergic acid-->ergometrine-->LSH, which then decomposes over time into LSA."

(5) Psychotomimetics of the Convolvulaceae pg 93: "This particular plant seems to have been more important to the Aztecs in divinity then Peyotl or Teonanacatl, two of their other classical sacred plants."

(6) Jonathan Ott "Pharmacotheon": "Ololiuhqui was far more prominent as an entheogen here in Mesoamerica than those mushrooms; the mushrooms are mentioned only here and there by a few competent chroniclers; yet almost an entire book was devoted to denouncing mainly the ololiuhqui idolatry. The annals of the Inquisition contain many times more autos de fe for ololiuhqui than for mushrooms."

(7) 2016 Polish morning glory study which finds 3x higher amounts of LSH in fresher MG seeds direct from grower/producer vs retail: hxxps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4830885/ LSA is a decomposition product of LSH over time (see attached pics from study).

2016 Polish MG study:
Quote:

Alkaloids abundance in all 3 HB cultivars is comparable, with most significant difference for LSH (Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide), which varies from 0.54 to 1.71 compound to IS ratio.

As has been demonstrated in this study, LSH is a labile compound, and therefore the variances in its concentration may be due to different age and storage conditions of the seeds rather than difference in plant metabolism. Indeed, seeds IT-HB2, which express highest concentration of LSH, were bought directly from the producer, whereas seeds IP-HB1 were purchased in retail stores.




[8] Researchers showed in 1961 that Claviceps paspali produces high amounts of LSH in culture: "Production of a new lysergic acid derivative (LSH or Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) by a strain of Claviceps paspali, Stevens & Hall".

Possible likely entheogen candidate used to serve hundreds of initiates at Eleusis in ancient Greece: this is where the Eleusian Mysteries were held, at the Eleusis Telesterion (initiation Hall for initiates...all men, women & slaves were invited) in ancient Greece.

Chemist Peter Webster wrote that fresh Greek claviceps paspali infected paspalum grass which grows adjacent to Eleusis in the famous Rarian Plane contains the exact same alkaloids as found in the fresh Aztec & Mayan morning glory. Albert Hofmann wrote that Claviceps paspali due to it's similar makeup to the Mexican morning glory could also have been the likely entheogen used at Eleusis to serve hundreds of people.

(9) Krystle Cole from the book "Lysergic":
Quote:

"Isn't Ergot what Socrates used to take at Eleusis?" I thought it was kind of cool to be taking something that the founders of our democracy used to take, but that our current democracy has made illegal.

LSD chemist Todd Skinner replied "Yes". Todd had prepared 6 jugs of ergot wine and stored them for many years.




Krystle Cole's "ergot wine" experience (several pages long) in the book "Lysergic", reported that she saw constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head.

(10) sample morning glory wine trip report from Erowid: Morning Glory & Alcohol by Psychopsilocybin:
https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95057
hxxps://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95057
I would only note that she or he should have most likely extracted the seeds from the start immediately into the wine instead of extracting into the water first...then adding to wine later, as this will cause the LSH to first decompose to LSA in neutral water or water that is not acidic.


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:39 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRoadAppleSnapple
Learning.


Registered: 12/31/20
Posts: 58
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27281631 - 04/25/21 02:57 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Whoa!


This is incredible. Especially for folks who are uncomfortable with an MAOI, or cannot take them.

And for people who cant rip a bong etc without coughing their brain onto the carpet for 10min. (me).


So, basic idea is that one would acquire HPBCD (basically a chemical shell) and mix it with their extracted DMT 7:1. Hold under the tongue for 15min. 90min (ish) experience ensues. No hacking up a lung; no worries about maoi issues.


Thank you for sharing.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTyperwritermonky
shboop a doop a doop


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 5,375
Loc: Mrs. Brown's Teahouse
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: RoadAppleSnapple]
    #27281674 - 04/25/21 03:29 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

@tregar

I saw this and was thinking "there goes tregar with his HPBCD experiments again!" lol.

I'm pretty sure nobody ever gave you credit for the 25inBOME HPBCD complex that exploded the nbome markets.  It may have been used for not good things, but science is for science sake.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetregar
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 1,047
Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27281699 - 04/25/21 03:48 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Yes Typewritermonky, unfortunately, I was the one who introduced HPBCD complexing to 25i-nbome to the bluelight forum back in Jan of 2012, see "the big and dandly 25i-nbome thread, page 28" after that virtually every vendor in the world of the nbome's took my idea and begin marketing them as such.

I hope this thread will make up for that adversity. I flushed mine down the toilet long, long ago. I despise that nasty compound. Most of you have probably noticed I work with natural psychedelics, I avoid all man-made psychedelics.

RoadAppleSnapple said:
Quote:

Whoa!

This is incredible. Especially for folks who are uncomfortable with an MAOI, or cannot take them.

And for people who cant rip a bong etc without coughing their brain onto the carpet for 10min. (me).

So, basic idea is that one would acquire HPBCD (basically a chemical shell) and mix it with their extracted DMT 7:1. Hold under the tongue for 15min. 90min (ish) experience ensues. No hacking up a lung; no worries about maoi issues.

Thank you for sharing.


Yes, you nailed it RoadAppleSnapple, thanks for comments. Don't forget to take from 150 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 30 minutes before the sublingual under the tongue HPBCD DMT + sublingual 35mg harmine fb at exact same time under tongue, music will sound incredible, divine transcendence and visions, very similar to cactus tea.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 10: One way to make tetrahydroharmine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once you get to the end of your rue extraction, where you put your rue hcl in water and precipitate the harmine from the harmaline, you want to slowly bring the ph of the water up to exactly 7.0 with drops of 10% ammonia (from hardware store, the industrial janitorial version)...at 7.0 only the harmine will fall out, collect over vacuum filter...then raise ph to 7.5 or 8.0 (your preference) and collect a small middle fraction, which you will want to set aside as it is a mix of some harmaline with some harmine...keep this fraction to add back in the future when you do another rue extract...now collect the 3rd fraction, which is the harmaline only at ph = 7.5 or 8.0 and above.

Details: I dissolve the rue hcl extract into water on a stir mantel, and as the stir mantel spins....add drops of 10% ammonia to precipitate only the harmine 1st, then a very small middle fraction (harmine + harmaline), then a final fraction which is only harmaline. I prefer using 10% ammonia from hardware store (janitorial). Super good PH meter: Apera Instruments ph20 ph meter.

Now once you have your harmaline freebase...

1) place 10.5 grams of harmaline in a 1 liter pyrex cup style glass
2) add 900ml vinegar
3) add 40g zinc dust (from pyrotechnic places) in the pyrex glass too, use 40g zinc dust per each 10.5 grams of harmaline. You will see tiny hydrogen bubbles rise to the surface.
5) place beaker solution on a magnetic stirrer with stir rod and spin entire solution slowly
6) spin for 1.5 hour, the solution will turn from green to a transparent like color after 1.5 hour, use end of cotton q tip to place in solution and dab on paper plate in front of blacklight, it will now glow blue when transition is done...

7) once done with spin, let the solution sit for 1 hour, most (99%) of the zinc dust will settle to bottom, then filter solution over a #101 9cm filter disc fitted to a vacuum flask with vacuum trap in series with your vacuum pump, this will give you a transparent golden color liquid, use this solution for next step.

Throw away the zinc dust you just collected on filter disc (be careful, don't throw zinc on top aluminum foil in garbage or it will smoke due to hydrogen loaded zinc, best to put used zinc in a baggie with water to keep it moist, keep away from aluminum).

The pump/vacuum filter flask & filter disc will remove 100% of any zinc dust. so in other words, filter pyrex beaker solution (takes out the zinc dust) over a #101 9cm filter disc fitted inside a vacuum filtration flask hooked up to a vacuum pump, with a small vacuum trap in series, in-between the filtration flask and the pump. A good pump is JB platinum DV-142N 5 CFM heavy duty vacuum pump.

Cool you are left with a 100% clear transparent with just a touch of golden very light yellow color with no zinc dust at all...now add (80ml of 10% janitorial ammonia per 2g of harmaline)...so this means add 400ml of the 10% ammonia to your solution...you will immediately see the thh crash out of solution as a white powder, place mason jar in fridge for 3 hours, the crystals will all be seen at bottom of mason jar.

9) you will collect 7.5 grams of pure white THH freebase on the filter disc sitting in your vacuum filtration flask once you pour fridge cold solution over a #101 9cm filter disc in your vacuumm pump, rinse THH with some cold water. put filter disc of thh in a pyrex tray, scrape off and dry under fan...pure white.

10) always this will happen: exactly 75% is the yield, as I don't know why this is so...but it's a great yield still. Even in TIHKAL, the yield was similar, right at 75% as well.

11) The more zinc you use, the faster the reaction progresses, so 35 to 40g zinc means the reaction is finished by 1.5 hour.

I've looked at the #101 filter after filtration, hardly anything at all on it, truly only 1% of the zinc dust remains to be filtered after sitting for 1 hour.

If you don't have a vacuum pump/filtration setup: Personally, I believe the cotton ball in a funnel to be one of the greatest inventions of all time--and think it would work just fine for filtering out the remaining 1% zinc dust, remember 99% of the zinc dust falls to the bottom already after sitting for 1 hour after the spin mantel is turned off. What you are filtering is actually the 1% of zinc dust from the very bottom after sitting that get's kicked up back into the solution as you are decanting it off.

p.s. I also saw an episode of "Ancient Aliens" in which they discovered remnants of zinc dust inside one of the chambers, and they believe the Egyptians were making hydrogen gas using zinc and vinegar, speculating that the great pyramid was some sort of power generating device.

12) This THH at 300mg is extremely visual, she's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally. With eyes closed for several hours are seen endless slow and high speed motion movies of nature, architecture, culture, history, the future, way beyond LSD or mescaline visuals...very realistic, mind-blowing...and with open eyes, beauty is extreme (over the top) and there is spiritual joy....this is the best psychedelic secret kept under wraps...because hardly anyone has used it over 100mg.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combine 250mg THH orally (take 45 minutes before) with sublingual 60mg of DMT complexed to 470mg HPBCD, add 10 drops boiling water, mash on a spoon hard back and forth for 2 minutes using the end of another spoon, mash or knead it all hard together using your muscles, grab off spoon using bottom side of tongue (it will all adhere) and hold for 12 to 15 minutes along with 35mg sublingual harmine freebase at the exact same time under tongue...

...22 minutes in you will experience profound beauty with open eyes, heavy CEV visions of spinning geometrics, actual temples, and ancient architecture, never ending breathtaking immaculate visions...pupils very dilated, music sounds incredible. 90 minutes long. 300mg THH is where the visions really are seen well, if you are not used to it, there is some slight dizziness at this dosage for a short period of time, but none at 250mg. The DMT really adds to the visions as well & brightens/colorizes them, incredible combination, just like in Ayahuasca. You can re-dose more HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hour x two more times.

Pic1: One way to make tetrahydroharmine

Pic2: Dissolve your rue hcl extract into warm 115 degree F water so it all dissolves, drop in two high precision PH meters, start the spin mantel, and add drops of 10% hardware store ammonia until you reach ph=7 when the harmine only will fall out, ph 7.1 to ph 7.9 = small middle fraction of harmaline mixed with harmine, put away and save for a rainy day when doing another extraction to add back in, ph 8.0 and above = all the harmaline only.


Edited by tregar (01/23/22 11:43 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejomanda1990
Ewewazos
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/15/18
Posts: 689
Loc: Argentina Flag
Last seen: 7 days, 21 hours
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27281844 - 04/25/21 06:32 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, we already got amazing info from you previous thread on consuming LSH from Morning glory seeds, and now this way of avoiding MAOI altogether when consuming oral DMT. I can only say: Thank you so much!


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTyperwritermonky
shboop a doop a doop


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 5,375
Loc: Mrs. Brown's Teahouse
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27282657 - 04/26/21 12:23 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

tregar said:
Yes Typewritermonky, unfortunately, I was the one who introduced HPBCD complexing to 25i-nbome to the bluelight forum back in Jan of 2012, see "the big and dandly 25i-nbome thread, page 25" after that virtually every vendor in the world of the nbome's took my idea and begin marketing them as such.

I hope this thread will make up for that adversity. I flushed mine down the toilet long, long ago. I despise that nasty compound. Most of you have probably noticed I work with natural psychedelics, I avoid all man-made psychedelics.

RoadAppleSnapple said:
Quote:

Whoa!

This is incredible. Especially for folks who are uncomfortable with an MAOI, or cannot take them.

And for people who cant rip a bong etc without coughing their brain onto the carpet for 10min. (me).

So, basic idea is that one would acquire HPBCD (basically a chemical shell) and mix it with their extracted DMT 7:1. Hold under the tongue for 15min. 90min (ish) experience ensues. No hacking up a lung; no worries about maoi issues.

Thank you for sharing.


Yes, you nailed it RoadAppleSnapple, thanks for comments. Don't forget to take from 150 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine around 30 minutes before the sublingual under the tongue HPBCD DMT, music will sound incredible, divine transcendence and visions, very similar to cactus tea.




Oh yeah I remember, back in 2011 I had 1g of 25inBOME and you were pretty much the only other person to be working with it on the web.  I ordered some HPBCD maybe early 2012 a day after you made that post, so I musta been like the second person to do it.  Interesting enough, all my experiments with 25i with myself and others turned out wonderful, I really thought there was something special to it.  My friend was going to do a study for it because it was still legal, seriously everybody loved it!

But then, one guy who was taking some from me said he "lost" the 11 hits I gave him.  I would never give anybody too much at once.. so I gave him some more.  The guy ended up taking like 9 at once (they were 150ug each) and he was fine, but I could tell something changed in him after that experiment.  I locked everything down, and then I found Nichols research showing the 5HT2 load that 25inBOME had.  I then ceased experiments, not willing to destroy anybodys receptor sites.  I destroyed the 20k hits I had left, and ended the experiment forever.
We were taking doses of like 300ug, maybe 450ug MAX.  Online, folks were selling it at 1mg a tab!!!!!  WAY too high of a dosage.  Honestly, it had nothing on mescaline/LSD etc. - but it had colorful visuals, interesting patterns, and really impressive CEV and most of the traits of a typical psychedelic without any of the headspace.

I'm very excited to try this to be honest, I love DMT, but don't take it very much - this timeframe without the MAI seems perfect for me!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephysics envy
Stranger
Registered: 01/03/11
Posts: 155
Last seen: 1 year, 28 days
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27283133 - 04/26/21 08:03 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Thank you for this tek, Tregar!

I have a (small) bottle of HPBCD laying around from an experiment a few of us worked on to complex salvinorin-A on the Nexus a few years ago.  I'll give this a shot sometime soon :-)

Perhaps this next part should be a separate post, but maybe you or someone else on here will know this answer quickly...I have a small bag of material that I believe was included as a gift when purchasing some vine/leaves/rue seeds/etc. from an online botanical store a decade ago.  It's labeled 'Banisteriopsis Caapi AYAHUASCA "White" Vine (4) Extract 10:1 (5 gram)'.  It looks kind of like finely ground up rue.  I'm assuming it is mainly harmine and THH with some harmaline, but maybe someone here would have a better idea if this is an accurate assumption?

I tested it recently with my intention being to smoke a small bowl prior to smoking some n,n-dmt to see if it would extend and potentiate the trip.  I assumed it would be like smoking caapi leaves prior to dmt, which tends to affect the trip a bit for me.

However, smoking the caapi vine extract gave me an unexpected trip itself - I was caught completely off-guard.  Your description of a 'diamond-like' quality reminds me of how the visuals felt/looked. It was similar to a low-dose dmt trip.

So if I were to eat this prior to using the complexed dmt, how much would you suggest using?  And/or should I try this by itself w/o the dmt first?  Would you take the 10x into account and take say 30mg of this?


--------------------
Salvia Quid Enthusiast


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: physics envy]
    #27283220 - 04/26/21 09:45 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

:popcorn:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Journal: 50 Sublingual HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time
( 1 2 all )
tregar 5,278 25 07/05/22 10:50 AM
by Jacubey
* DMT
( 1 2 all )
thongster 3,404 28 03/27/07 07:09 PM
by yageman
* just got an idea. question? salvia/DMT protected_son 1,771 7 01/09/06 05:04 PM
by Land_Crab
* For experienced DMT users... ShroomyTunes 2,662 11 01/29/06 05:00 PM
by kindadank
* Is anyone experienced with sublingual absorbtion of HBWR? HealingVisionary 2,325 8 08/19/05 01:22 PM
by leery11
* DMT and Salvia
( 1 2 all )
Aspartame187 7,670 22 05/17/07 04:55 PM
by floridashaman
* Is DMT really in our brains?
( 1 2 all )
ReoSpeedwagon153 4,909 29 04/10/07 10:42 PM
by Koala Koolio
* leave tabs on your tongue for half hour?
( 1 2 all )
chipotlee 12,760 24 05/28/07 06:44 PM
by johnuk

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
15,325 topic views. 1 members, 40 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.04 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 14 queries.