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Registered: 12/07/10 Posts: 12,880 Last seen: 2 months, 8 days |
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In another thread, you complimented me on one of my posts, saying 'beautiful post' (#27698541), so I wanted to again ask you if you could spare some crude rue extract or some harmine.
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Yes, S240779, your posts are top notch, keep up the great work, excellent work. How is it that you cannot find harmine or THH on-line using google, in what country are you located if you don't mind my asking ? PM me.
-------------------------------- Go to bottom of page 8 for full trip report with 6 pics for ONE-SHOT HPBCD AYAHUACA, MASKS TASTE and increases absorption many factors. -------------------------------- I found I can use the oral HPBCD DMT any time, as there is zero tolerance to it orally. No more waste of DMT, works incredibly well each and every time. The beautiful closed eye colored purple, pink and green morphing & dancing geometrics lasted a full 45 minutes using this oral 150mg HPBCD DMT dosage (which progress into full blown realistic Ayahuasca visions). From Thirdwave.co: Quote: I would recommend you even try 120mg of harmine if you do not want to go with 160mg which works very well for activating the DMT orally. I will always continue to use 160mg of harmine orally in the future, same way Jonathan Ott arrived at using in his 30 experiments in his book. No nausea or dizziness at this 160mg oral dosage for me, just as Jonathan Ott remarked for himself as well. I always avoid any amount of harmaline, as I am guaranteed nausea and dizziness if there is even a tiny amount of it in my Ayahuasca. Jonathat Ott: Quote: I absolutely love the one-shot oral Ayahuasca using 150mg HPBCD DMT, 160 to 170mg harmine, and around 250 to 300mg of THH dissolved into 30ml hot water and drank all at once, just as the Shaman's do, and will continue to use her at various DMT doses for the rest of my life, absolute favorite. Zero tolerance, nausea, or dizziness for me, plus I can use any time I want, even 7 days later I noticed zero tolerance. This 150mg HPBCD DMT has the exact same power and all-encompassing as 40g Hawaiian psychotria, which is at the very high end for advanced Ayahuasca use, which I only ventured at this leaf dose around 5 times in my 70 total Hawaiian psychoria brews over a 10 year period. Note: I have used as little as 150mg of harmine orally, and it is still extremely effective. I would recommend experimenting with very low harmine doses like 120mg, or 150mg for guaranteed strong activation with the least bodily side effects, see chart bottom of page 8 of harmine strength from Ott, which I have found to be very accurate in my own journeys. Jonathan Ott mentioned later on-line that he increased his doses to as high as 160mg DMT in later journeys, so he did not stop at the 70mg level like his chart. He also mentioned that he gave himself just 7 days between all of his three dozen journeys, also experiencing zero tolerance. Full instructions for one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca: -------------------------------- 1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon (60mg for beginners) 2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin. 3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin. 4) add 10 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for DMT doses of 90mg or below, use 12 drops of boiling hot water to mix DMT doses of 90mg or more (such as 90 to 100mg). Use 14 drops of hot water for 150mg DMT. 60mg DMT = +3 Shulgin level strength, 90mg DMT = +4 Shulgin level life strength. 150mg DMT = +5 Shulgin level life changing experience. 5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, scrape & mix everything back and forth hard using your muscles. This is how scientist pre-pare these complexes by kneading. 6) Optional (you do not have to do this): Hold a lighter one inch away from under the spoon to heat up spoon for 20 seconds, then pull flame away, this seems to aid dissolution or dissolving after heating up a slight bit, mix the contents 10 seconds more before using, see pics at bottom of page 8. 7) Refer to bottom of page 8 with 6 pics, simply dunk spoon of HPBCD DMT into 30ml (one-shot) of 125 degree F water from microwave when ready to drink for the evening, stir a few seconds...it dissolves instantly, and leaves a transparent color it dissolves so well, then stir in around 160mg harmine fb and 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine freebase, add around 100mg of 100% pure vitamin C powder so the freebase harmalas can dissolve, stir a bit, then drink all at once as the Shaman's do for the most powerful journey. 8] 12 reasons why you should always include pure THH or tetrahydroharmine in your Ayahuasca: Personal note: I may be a long term chemist, but I developed a method (page 1) many years ago so that anyone can make tetrahydroharmine at home. I went into a trance state after a death and received the information from a divine source on how to do this, as I was stuck at one point for weeks on end with no solution. No fancy chemicals or equipment needed like TIHKAL THH Synthesis. Due to the hundreds of Spiritual centers in South America needing these plants, Caapi is increasingly being harder to find. You can do this with normal coffee filters and cotton ball stuffed in a funnel. Tetrahydroharmine (THH): she is as valuable as mescaline, can't do without her. Diamondlike shimmering in her beauty. In brews analyzed by the UDV, Santo Daime and Shuar Indian, THH levels were at the same high levels of harmine in the plant. Somehow, over their day's long cooking process perhaps using vitamin C (hydrogen doner) in the cooking, the THH would attain levels found as harmine in the plants. Harmaline levels often found zero but always very low (0 to 30mg levels) in a typical brew. Just google tetrahydroharmine wikipedia and read the studies attached at bottom. 1. Post #12 of this paper: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. TIHKAL THH entry also achieved 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted. Be-ware cheap China made THH as a handful of people have reported it does not glow blue under blacklight, but green, indicating the process was not carried out to completion, harmaline contamination, incomplete synthesis. I recommend making your own or quality sources. 1. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: Quote: In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow. 2. She is in the same beta-carboline family as ibogaine. She is the 2nd highest alkaloid in Caapi. She has a 10.5 hour half-life with peak at 5.25 hours. 3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows. 4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin. 5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, she is like the beta-carboline version of mescaline, few people have used her over 100mg. I have seen the receptorome chart for THH vs. mescaline. She not only blocks serotonin like mescaline, but agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors A1-A3 associated with beauty and aesthetic enhancement, just like mescaline. Beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included, she is diamondlike shimmering in her beauty. Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so. 6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank by some of the more advanced members for evening at the vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) people are consuming around 300mg of THH. 7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. The combo of THH + DMT is like listening to music on high-dose cactus tea, heavenly. 8. This pure THH at 300mg all by herself is extremely visual, she's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally. 9. The entry in TIHKAL for 300mg THH is completely wrong, where the unexperienced person compares it to the effects of 100mg harmaline. She is nothing at all like harmaline, and like 69ron once said about the person's comment in TIHKAL, he or she would not be able to tell their ass from their elbow. I agree, what complete nonsense. 10. professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression): Quote: 11. Trips (from here on 12/2/2011): Quote: Espiridion: Quote: The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence, a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain. At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of teaching closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged way-beyond 4k visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine: 12. Gayle Highpine (Ayahuasca researcher): Quote: Tetrahydroharmine or THH ranks very high on the "periodic psychedelic table" among all the known entheogens for inducing realistic way beyond 4k monochrome teaching visions for hours...adding even small amounts of DMT brightens and colorizes the visions, example: reptiles, birds & animals such as serpents/snakes/toucans/parrots/ Read study reference 1 below, and you will see that Vegetal Ayahuasca (made by the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) contains zero to extremely low amounts of harmaline (less than 15mg), but contains as much tetrahydroharmine as it does harmine. All of the Santo Daime Ayahuasca contained zero mg of harmaline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T Page 154 of "Various Alkaloid Profiles in Decoctions of Banisteriopsis Caapi, 2005": Quote: Callaway wrote in "The Entheogen Review": Quote: Full subject with 50,000 views: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/ hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d Edited by tregar (04/21/22 09:27 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Go to mycotopia to view all 6 studies, post #45:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111 hxxps://mycotopia.net/topic/1116 https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/ hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d Note: Full instructions for one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca on post #381 and #382 with 6 pics at dmt nexus (50,000 views). [150mg HPBCD DMT + 250mg THH + 170mg harmine in 30ml hot water] +5 shulgin level trip report, most powerful experience I've had in years. Love Love Love Shroombee...Thirdwave.co seems to be correct in their tolerance assessment, you are not going to believe this, but 4 hours after I had the phenomenal experience using the one-shot HPBCD DMT (150mg HPBCD DMT, 250mg THH, 170mg harmine) all dissolved into 30ml hot water and drank at once (described in post #381 and #382 with 6 pics)....I wanted to test the thirdwave.co tolerance model, so took 3 hits of LSD and it worked as expected--super strong LSD experience the rest of the night, the Ayahuasca took absolutely nothing away from the later LSD experience that night, same potency as I've always expected from 3 hits, so I do believe the assessment by thirdwave is correct. I myself was shocked there was zero tolerance to the LSD later at night. Shocked -------------------------------- Pharmacology explanation: how HPBCD complexed to DMT increases absorption many factors into intestinal tissues: Shroombee, this is how HPBCD when complexed to DMT (only takes 2 minutes) dramatically increases the absorption of the DMT into the intestinal tissues in my experiences: HPBCD is a polysaccharide with six glucose units derived from the enzymatic degradation of cornstarch, when complexed to freebase dmt, it makes the DMT water soluble as well as increasing it's bioavailability similar to the way psychotria does this, increasing absorption by many factors into the intestinal tissues. Hawaiian psychotria is so potent because it contains polysaccharides in the leaf which bind to the DMT and enhance absorption severalfold into the intestinal tissues. Downwardsfromzero was instrumental in helping to discover this, and I cannot thank him enough. I myself have observed these long winding stringy, sticky polysaccharides in the brewed down and heavily filtered psychotria tea by letting it sit in fridge several days, they can be seen all throughout the 8oz tea. They cannot be removed by any amount of filtering but travel with the psychotria dissolved DMT, these polysaccharides are then very visible. 5 examples from the scientific literature on how polysaccharides increase drug absorption: --> Example 1: Aloe vera gel contains Acemannan, a major polysaccharide component of aloe vera. Page 17 of 46, from attached 1st study "Pharmaceutics drug bioavailability enhancing agents, 2019": Quote: All of the Aloe materials decreased the TEER of the Caco-2 cell monolayers indicating opening of tight junctions. --> Example 2: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent, see pic with study below. Complex prepared by kneading method in a 1:1 molar ratio, same way I prepare my HPBCD DMT in only 2 minutes, see full instructions on post #382. --> Example 3: see 2nd paragraph, HPBCD increase drug permeability into intestinal tissues by solubilization of membrane lipids through inclusion complexation with cyclodextrins and the ability of cyclodextrins to cause perturbation of membrane integrity. However, unlike detergents, cyclodextrins solubilize membrane components without entering into the membrane, therefore the perturbing effects of cyclodextrins are mild and reversible. "Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: Page 4 of 16: Quote: HPBCD helps mask the taste of the DMT when used orally in a hot tea & reduce or eliminate any intestinal irritation by the DMT. "Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017:, under "Kinetics": Quote: "Cyclodextrins used as excipients" pdf, European Medicines Agency, Oct 9, 2017: page 5 of 16 under "Oral products, Kinetics": Quote: --> Example 4: Real world experiences: Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 120mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least two dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength. After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! All of the experiences were +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt, or dmt salts. However, at this point, I have noticed that ALL the dried Hawaiian psychotria is extinct, and is no longer available. But no worries, HPBCD complexed DMT feels the void very well, and is way more potent than plain DMT which is absorbed poorly via the oral or sublingual route. Studies show HPBCD when complexed to poorly absorbed drugs like DMT improve drug penetration many factors when used sublingually or orally. --> Example 5: see attached document from Sigma Aldrich which shows how HPBCD increases drug penetration for 68 drugs. pic 1: use a 1:1 molar ratio of HPBCD to host drug, see complete 2 minute instructions for one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca on post #381 and #382 with pics. pic 2: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. attachment 1: Pharmaceutics drug bioavailability enhancing agents, 2019. Aloe vera gel polysaccharides caused a 3.7 fold and avwl (aloe vera whole leaf) a 2-fold increase in the bioavailability of vitamin C in comparison to the control, 2019. attachment 2: Aloe vera gel and whole leaf extract functional and versatile excipients for drug delivery (5) attachment 3: Sigma Aldrich drug penetration enhancement table using HPBCD complexation for 68 drugs. attachment 4: questions-answers-cyclodextrins- attachment 5: Thermodynamic properties of hydroxypropyl Beta cyclodextrin and guest interaction, a survey of recent studies, 2021. Edited by tregar (04/21/22 09:47 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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In closing, here is the full journey report (150mg HPBCD DMT + 170mg harmine fb + 250mg THH or tetrahydroharmine freebase) all dissolved into 30ml (one-shot) hot water, added 150mg pure vitamin C powder so the freebase harmalas could dissolve, although only 100mg is needed:
Update 4pm 3/21/2022: I am writing this 1.5 hour later: took the 1-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca (150mg HPBCD DMT, 250mg THH, 170mg harmine all dissolved into 30ml hot water) and it worked incredibly well! Phenomenal strength, for the 1st 10 minutes I held on tight as it felt like I was handling a high speed sports car, ego disintegrating & boundaries shattered. For the first 10 minutes, open or closed eyes, didn't matter, saw same thing: colored neon geometrics on the surface of everything. Felt whole body high tryptamine frequency combined with the THH frequency vibration = amazing amplified whole body frequency, like being tuned into another spirit manifested alien world. It felt like a colored shining tractor beam was going to surround me and take me away, very 3-dimensional. It was so powerful for 10 minutes, I had to close my eyes to find a happy place. Felt like the most powerful of my past Hawaiian psychotria experiences (40 grams leaf) with Caapi which I only ventured at this dose around 5 times (and all by accident, never meant to, as it is so strong) out of my 70 total Hawaiian psychotria journeys (most 30-35 grams), this was no different, exactly the same as the potent leaf, at the very high end for advanced Ayahuasca use. Dennis Mckenna once said about one of his Ayahuasca journeys, that for the first 10 minutes it felt like he was riding an elevator to the top floor at high speed, this is how it felt for me, or like handling a high speed sports car. ...then it became at 10 minutes extremely enjoyable, infinite open eyed beauty, incredible closed eye morphing & dancing geometrics in wild neon purple, pink & green that lasted for another 35 minutes with closed eyes. With open eyes, saturated neon colors and neon colored rainbow reflections surrounded everything which glowed intensely with an inner divine light, music playing was just heavenly, incredible music enhancement, +5 Shulgin level experience, most powerful experience I've had in years....very strong for 1.5 hour, when it decreased in strength several notches. I could not believe the open eyed beauty--phenomenal...this is my preferred method. WOW, unbelievable experience, high euphoria, deep headspace, profound spiritual insights, extremely visual, had the power of 40g Hawaiian psychotria to the highest degree. I experienced zero nausea, zero dizziness (so long as I keep my harmine dose below 200mg). Love, Love, Love.
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Heroic Doser Registered: 11/15/06 Posts: 1,207 Loc: CoSmoS |
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I tried the sublingual HPBCD dmt with thh and harmine finally and it worked ok, just wasn't quite strong enough so I ended up smoking a bowl of changa about an hour in. Not sure how long the trip lasted because once I smoked the changa I zoned off into my trip and the next thing I know it was morning time and waking up wondering why I feel asleep lol.
My next trip I'm going to try the One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca and see if it's any better for me. DMT is kind of strange. I was reading your post over on the nexus about the tolerance issue you had taking it sublingual. I've also noticed that I got one too but so far its only been with smoking changa. In the past I could smoke it and get close to blasting off from a hit or 2, now it seems the trips are getting weaker even if I wait several weeks and this is why I wanted to try the sublingual way. Hopefully it works better trying the One shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca method. I'm looking for that ++5 trip as I've only had one so far out of my 20 years psychedelic experiences. -------------------- ![]()
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Heroic Doser Registered: 11/15/06 Posts: 1,207 Loc: CoSmoS |
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Now this is why I say DMT is a weird chemical.
Last night I did the shot with 150mg HPBCD dmt 250mg thh and a bunch of harmaline, cant quite remember how much but it was plenty and I actually got less effect than when I took 90mg HPBCD dmt sublingual ![]() This is also actually the 2nd time trying oral dmt and both time was a fail. It was last year I took around 100mg dmt acetate and about 10g Syrian tea with minimal effects. I think next time I'm going to try brewing 100g of acacia bark and some banisteriopsis caapi and see how that works out. -------------------- ![]()
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Stranger Registered: 03/11/15 Posts: 39 Last seen: 2 months, 17 days |
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What if you took the harmaline before the DMT complex? Perhaps 15 minutes earlier would allow the maoi properties of the harmala to protect the DMT in the gut? Just an idea.
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Registered: 12/07/10 Posts: 12,880 Last seen: 2 months, 8 days |
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Some people prefer doing that.
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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idontknow1 said:
Quote:Trust me, I've taken it that way before (15 minutes before), and it is no where near as potent as when you take it all at the same time, just as the Shaman's do for the most powerful experience. I've tested that before, it's actually weaker. 69ron was the one who posted to take it all at once as real Ayahausca, he was so right. The most powerful inhibition takes place immediately when all is being absorbed at same time, super strong. I had an experience last night 4-4-2022 that was extremely powerful and zero nausea or dizziness again, made sure my stomach was empty again by waiting 4 hours after lite keto meal, it was a bit easier to handle in the beginning, as I used 300mg THH freebase + 110mg HPBCD DMT + 160mg harmine freebase all dissolved at once in 30ml hot water with 100mg pure vitamin C powder added so that the freebase harmalas would dissolve. The 110mg DMT freebase was complexed to x7 or 770mg plain HPBCD in 12 drops boiling hot water from a coffee mug, mixed and mashed it all hard for 2 minutes using muscles...then held a lighter one inch away from under the spoon to heat up spoon for 20 seconds, then pulled flame away, this seems to aid dissolution or dissolving after heating up a slight bit, mixed the contents 10 seconds more before using, then dunked spoon into the one shot 125 F degree microwaved water when I was ready to use, it dissolved instantly leaving a transparent color...then added harmalas and 100mg vitamin C powder to dissolve harmalas of course. For 110mg dmt, be sure to use x8 or 880mg if using the more common 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio of guest freebase drug to HPBCD, trapping it inside like a tornado. Pure euphoria & bliss for 1.5 hour, amazing visuals closed and open eye, at 300mg I get more of the neon colored geometrics which then progressed into real Ayahuasca visions, and the DMT colorized the THH visions, saw colored Ayahuasca visions of Mayan pyramids and jungle to the max, deep inside the jungle, where I was walking inside it. Beautiful multi-colored feathered serpents seen, appearing like stained glass art rendering, then intertwined like DNA a second time appearing like flying dragons. Open eye neon colored rainbow reflections colored everything again which glowed brightly with an inner spiritual light. Actresses on TV looked like dazzling, glowing super colorful cartoon versions of themselves, just like with high dose cactus tea, very deep head space, music enhancement so very powerful, deeply spiritual experience. If you want to re-dose a second one-shot Ayahuasca 2 hours later: since the tetrahydroharmine has a half life of 10.5 hours with peak at 5.25 hours, you never have to re-dose more THH for the evening, only more harmine (120mg-170mg) + more dmt (60mg-150mg) into another hot one-shot. Since the harmine has a half-life of 1 to 3 hours, you can often just use 120mg harmine for the 2nd dose, as the 1st harmine dose is still somewhat (around 1/3rd) active 2 hours later. -------------------------------- Go to bottom of page 8 of this thread for full instructions and 6 pics -------------------------------- Pic: Top left and right: the 2 visions looked similar to the Aztec and Mayan plumed serpent Quetzalcoatl, bottom left: the cosmic serpent: DNA and the origins of knowledge Ayahuasca vision painting by Pablo Amaringo. Edited by tregar (04/07/22 12:56 PM)
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Wanna-be-cultivar Registered: 08/19/20 Posts: 258 Last seen: 4 hours, 15 minutes |
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This may be a bit of a tangent, as it's not really related to the HPBCD Complexed DMT, but I'm curious if anybody has had any similar observations with harmalas
When I take harmalas, I generally take 150mg full spectrum hcl (harmine and harmaline) orally. Within about an hour and a half I begin having rather distinct visuals. Looking at any un-textured surface causes a dance of radiating green squiggles in the shape of whatever I'm thinking about. I can make the squiggles turn in to people and dance, I can pretty much completely control the OEVs that I get on oral harmalas. Additionally, I begin to experience auditory "hallucinations" where I can hear things I normally wouldn't. I'm not sure if they're hallucinations or not, because the sounds I'm hearing are definitely real, they just manifest differently. For example, I can hear a kind of "grumbling hum" from every running motor in ear shot of me. Fans, toy cars, anything with an electric motor. It's very weird and sometimes causes anxiety. The above is a consistent experience for me, I always get it with oral harmalas. However, if I take harmalas sublingually I don't seem to get any of this. I've done 30mg of sublingual hcl full spectrum and got no psychedelic effects (though perhaps still Mao inhibition) I'm wondering if anybody else has had this experience, where the effects are different sublingually. Edited by Jacubey (04/05/22 05:47 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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I agree with L-dreamer in that the sublingual method has definite advantages over the oral.
Today, took 300mg THH 45 minutes before, then 120mg sublingual HPBCD DMT or 120mg dmt complexed to x7 or 840mg HPBCD in 12 drops boiling hot water from a coffee mug, all mashed and mixed for 2 minutes hard using muscles on spoon using the end of another spoon...this is how scientist prepare these complexes by kneading...then held lighter 1 inch away for 20 seconds, this aids dissolution by heating up a slight bit, just as bodybuilder chemist Patrick Arnold recommended for sublingual pro-hormone mixing, then mixed for 10 more seconds... placed under tongue along with 30mg harmine freebase, it all absorbed in 15 minutes...only some remnants of the harmine could be seen in the saliva at this point...phenomenal sublingual experience....it's been a month since I've used it this way. This always seems to avoid all the terrifying aspects of oral Ayahuasca, 100% no nausea, no triggering of brain nausea alarms, reaches the brain directly from the sublingual mucosa, very potent....a psychonaut's favorite. music just incredibly heavenly for 2 hours...blown away, phenomenal open eyed beauty....and zero nausea or dizziness or anxiety, no terrifying oral Ayahuasca vibes. Amazing experience. Light colored geometrics with closed eyes, dancing and morphing, incredible open eyed beauty, magnificent experience, I will surely continue to use it sublingually much more often, very beautiful...overwhelming spiritual joy. So blown away by the music enhancement..WOW..and zero anxiety. Edited by tregar (04/13/22 07:43 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Next experiment for next week, will try one shot Ayahuasca again: 140mg harmine fb + 300mg THH fb + 110mg HPBCD DMT. I want to see how low I can go on the harmine for activating the DMT....I have a feeling this will give me more of what I am looking for...extremely minimal on the harmine = barely able to perceive any bodily side effects, I've done this way in the past, and it was a powerful experience, crystal clear clarity like mescaline but no perceived body side effects. Will post results next week.
1.5mg/kg harmine freebase = threshold to effect sufficient MAO-inhibition, as to render DMT active orally. As I weigh 90kg, this is approximately 140mg for myself. Top Pic: Jonathan Ott's Ayahuasca analogues strength table Edited by tregar (04/15/22 07:13 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Personal kind recommendation: can't stress enough how important it is to separate the harmine out from the harmaline. Harmaline can make up as much as 70% of a crude rue extract in my experience. Harmaline is nauseating and sedating, and when harmaline is combined with harmine, the harmaline side effects are amplified. Not only that, but it causes "re-bound insomnia" days later as it imparts the opposite effect once the drug wears off, making it difficult to fall asleep around a day after the experience. I avoid harmaline like the plague, even tiny amounts of it around 20mg cause strong nauseating feelings coupled with sedation, I make sure there is zero amount of it in my Ayahuasca.
I once went on a field trip with a friend, and took 150mg harmine + 30mg harmaline just to experience it, and my friend had to pull over twice as I was so dizzy and had to puke on the side of the road from the strong nausea. The nausea lasted many hours, and made for a rough afternoon. Harmaline has a long half-life of around 3 hours. Just as Jonathan Ott remarks in all of his 30 experiences, no nausea when using only pure harmine. I also experience no nausea or dizziness using only harmine at doses around 170mg or less. I will be using only 140mg pure harmine for my next experience. I recommend you take just 120mg of harmine freebase on it's own and notice how differently you may react as a control experiment, just as Ott did: Take just 140mg of pure harmine on it's own if you weigh 90kg like me, or 120mg if you weigh 80kg like Ott, and just as Jonathan Ott saids on page 60 of Ayahuasca Analogues: Quote: Jonathan Ott, "The Internationalization of Ayahuasca", page 108: Quote: Jonathan Ott did not know about the importance of tetrahydroharmine (feminine teaching spirit) in Ayahuasca during his time period, as she is the 2nd largest ingredient, and 12 reasons why she is important on post #382, and why I always include very pure THH with each and every journey. Read study reference 1 below, and you will see that Vegetal Ayahuasca (made by the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) contains zero to extremely low amounts of harmaline (less than 15mg), but contains as much tetrahydroharmine as it does harmine. All of the Santo Daime Ayahuasca contained zero mg of harmaline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T Page 154 of "Various Alkaloid Profiles in Decoctions of Banisteriopsis Caapi, 2005": Quote: Callaway wrote in "The Entheogen Review": Quote: attached: "Various Alkaloid Profiles in Decoctions of Banisteriopsis Caapi" by JC Callaway, Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, June 2005. Edited by tregar (04/21/22 08:23 AM)
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Registered: 12/07/10 Posts: 12,880 Last seen: 2 months, 8 days |
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Quote: I've heard that before. -- Caapi contains Harmine and Tetrahydroharmine and as such feels MUCH smoother + cleaner + less disorienting then Rue which contains high amounts of Harmaline. Harmaline is what you want to avoid. Caapi contains little to know Harmaline while Rue contains large amounts of harmaline. CosmicLion http://www.shroomery.org/forums -- -- ayahuasca with rue feels alot more rough than with caapi. -- Private message sent to me. -- I think there are quite some differences between taking dmt with Syrian Rue and taking dmt with Banisteriopsis Caapi (=Ayahuasca) The only time I had an effective dose of oral dmt was when I combined it with 5g of Syrian Rue and it produced an effect really much apart from what I read about ayahuasca. My visuals were almost all black and white (in some kind of like straight from a vampire movie). I had once before taken mushrooms with Syrian Rue which had brought me into a similar dark realm. I am pretty sure the vine (=ayahuasca, which is the name of the original maoi!) will produce a quite different effect. -- tryptonaut http://www.psychonaut.com/ayahu -- i've used caapi and rue as an MAOI and chaliponga, chacruna and mimosa as DMT sources. caapi is far superior in my opinion. you can keep adding more vine and get a deeper experience (and a stronger purge) whereas rue get really unpleasant if you take too much, with rue its a fine line between full MAOI inhibition and purging to early and having a dud experience. your milage may vary but rue is less loving and guiding than the vine but its more easy going..... -- divinebovine http://www.shroomery.org/forums
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Subject also found here, page 20 (53,000 views):
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/ hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d I agree with L-dreamer in that the subingual route has definite advantages over the oral. Like you said "in and out in an hour" beautiful experience...and it's easy to re-dose in case you want to an hour and a half later. Tonight, I took 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before, then 140mg dmt freebase complexed to x7 or 980mg HPBCD in 12 drops boiling hot water from a coffee mug, mixed and mashed it well using muscles for 2 minutes on a spoon using the end of another spoon, held lighter 1 inch away for 20 seconds to heat up slightly, then mixed 10 more seconds, placed under tongue for 15 minutes along with 30mg complexed HPBCD harmine freebase....there was no brown harmine remnants seen in the saliva spit out after 15 minutes...it all dissolved along with the HPBCD DMT. Don't be afraid to use high doses of DMT, extremely visual and very trippy. --> To complex the harmine freebase, use x6 HPBCD. So for the 30mg harmine fb, added x 6 or 180mg HPBCD on a spoon along with the 30mg harmine, mixed and mashed it well for 2 minutes on a spoon with end of another spoon along with 4 drops boiling hot water from a nearby microwaved coffee mug...this REALLY helps the harmine dissolve super fast under the tongue, makes it very water soluble and improves penetration into the sublingual mucosa immensely...I have noticed complexing the harmine, there is no traces of the harmine left after 15 minutes dissolving under tongue....MUCH BETTER than using the freebase harmine under tongue, which dissolves poorly. It is so worth doing it this way. ...unbelievable experience, this totally 100% always avoids any nausea or dizziness or weirdness...as there is something about dmt moving through the stomach that makes it eerily weird. This was fantastic! super incredible open eyed beauty, WOW! eyes closed for 30 minutes, incredible neon colored geometrics that slowly danced and evolved into other wild kaleidoscopic geometrics...so wild....loved it so much I kept my eyes closed for much of the experience to watch. I haven't seen geometrics this wild in ages. I strongly felt the presence of Mother Ayahausca the whole time, and I felt her guiding the experience in a divine meaningful way. In the corner of all the geometrics, I saw a female guide, heavenly in appearance overlooking the morphing geometries. I was astonished. Very deep head space, profound spiritual insights. I had my headphones on the music was incredible! WOW...best experience ever...100% no nausea, no weirdness or terrifying vibes like oral Ayahausca can have in the beginning... I will be using this method from now on every week! love it. My tolerance to this method has gone away...I simply increased my harmine dose from 20mg to 30mg under tongue at same time, it works to overcome tolerance. I had a similar sublingual HPBCD DMT experience 1 week earlier, and it was also very powerful. I am very happy that I can have these sublingual Ayahuasca experiences weekly now again, working powerfully each and every time. A good complexed HPBCD harmine dose (30mg) is the key to this working effectively, always take at the exact same time under tongue as the HPBCD DMT. 30mg sublingual harmine has the power of x6 or 180mg oral harmine. -------------------------------- My very first April 2021 sublingual trip report that started all this: Note: Be sure to always take from 150 to 300mg very pure THH orally around 45 minutes before. You can put it in an empty capsule. Normal Caapi based Ayahuasca always contains an average of 150mg THH per cup. When 2 cups are drank for the evening by more advanced members of the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian, or advanced members like myself, people are consuming 300mg of THH. Refer to post #382 for 12 reasons why you should always include THH with your Ayahuasca. No need to ever re-dose more of the oral tetrahydroharmine or THH as she (feminine teaching spirit) has a half life of 10.5 hours with peak at 5.25 hours Always complex the 30mg harmine freebase to HPBCD as well, this makes it very water soluble and increases penetration into the sublingual mucosa under the tongue by many factors, and also completely masks the harmine freebase taste. I've tested how fast it can absorb under the tongue by itself, only 5 minutes it works so well. But always take it at the exact same time as the HPBCD DMT under tongue, mix it into the HPBCD DMT spoon and take it all at once under tongue for the most powerful experience, just as the Shaman's do: all at once. Depending on total HPBCD harmine + HPBCD dmt dosage, it can all absorb in as little as 10 minutes, for higher doses I give it 15 minutes under tongue, it all completely absorbs. Spit out all the built up saliva at the end of 15 minutes into a cup, all of the sublingual Ayahuasca ingredients should have easily absorbed by then....but if at any point during the 15 minutes you build up too much saliva, and you feel it become too uncomfortable, simply tilt head forward and gently relieve any built up saliva but always keep tongue pressed down to hold any remaining ingredients in the sublingual mucosa under tongue at all times. There is a mild to moderate sting felt while you do this, and it doesn't bother me at all, as it is so worth enduring for 10 to 15 minutes for the phenomenal spiritually divine experience that begins 22 minutes after you begin all this (the sublingual experience begins in 1/2 the time or 22 minutes instead of 45 minutes like the oral) but still lasts 1.5 hour with super long afterglow. You can re-dose up to two more times, and it continues to work just as strong as the first dose, so long as you continue to use 30mg harmine along with each re-dose of dmt. --> On my very first 300mg oral THH taken 45 minutes earlier + sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT fb (60mg DMT complexed to x7 or 420mg HPBCD in 6 drops boiling hot water) combined with sublingual 30mg HPBCD harmine fb (30mg harmine complxed to x6 or 180mg HPBCD in 4 drops boiling hot water) held under tongue at exact same time journey with 2 sublingual re-doses at each 1.5 hour mark (had not used dmt in several months): ...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours. I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea. I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from. All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers." ...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the sublingual DMT/harmine and oral THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw that first night. The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys. They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind. Recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world & "BAM, Builders of the Ancient Mysteries". Also, see "Alien gods" 2019 on amazon prime, another great video all about this winged serpent, giver of knowledge, culture, music, art, civilization to mankind, first appearing around some 5000 years before Christ. The snake was equated to wisdom & healing, even in the Bible. Return of the Serpent & of Eden: https://earthmedicine2015.wordp hxxps://earthmedicine2015.wordpr Reference: Full instructions for sublingual or the one-shot HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca (your choice): -------------------------------- 1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon (60mg for beginners) 2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin. 3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin. 4) add 10 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for DMT doses of 90mg or below, use 12 drops of boiling hot water to mix DMT doses of 90mg or more (such as 90 to 100mg). Use 14 drops of hot water for 150mg DMT. 60mg DMT = +3 Shulgin level strength, 90mg DMT = +4 Shulgin level life strength. 150mg DMT = +5 Shulgin level life changing experience. 5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of another spoon for 2 minutes, scrape & mix everything back and forth hard using your muscles. This is how scientist pre-pare these complexes by kneading. 6) Hold a lighter one inch away from under the spoon to heat up spoon for 20 seconds, then pull flame away, this seems to aid dissolution or dissolving after heating up a slight bit, mix the contents 10 seconds more before using, just as bodybuilder chemist Patrick Arnold recommended for sublingual pro-hormone mixing. See pics. 7) --> For one-shot Ayahuasca: Refer to post #381 above with 6 pics, simply dunk spoon of HPBCD DMT into 30ml (one-shot) of 125 degree F water from microwave when ready to drink for the evening, stir a few seconds...it dissolves instantly, and leaves a transparent color it dissolves so well, then stir in around 160mg harmine fb and 150 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine freebase, add around 100mg of 100% pure vitamin C powder so the freebase harmalas can dissolve, stir a bit, then drink all at once as the Shaman's do for the most powerful journey. 8] --> For sublingual Ayahuasca: Place 30mg harmine freebase on a spoon, cover it with x6 or 180mg HPBCD to keep at a 1:1 molar ratio of harmine to HPBCD. Use x7 or 210mg HPBCD if using the more common 2-hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin. Add 4 drops of boiling hot water from a nearby microwaved coffee mug, mix and mash it all together hard using muscles for 2 minutes on the spoon using the end of another spoon. --> General rule for sublingual use: use 1 drop of boiling hot water from a nearby microwaved coffee mug for each 10mg of dmt freebase, or each 10mg of harmine freebase you are mixing and mashing on a spoon using the end of another spoon. Example: Use 6 drops of very hot water from a medicine pipette to mix 60mg of dmt with x7 or 420mg HPBCD on a spoon using the end of another spoon. Use 9 drops of very hot water to mix 90mg of dmt with x7 or 630mg HPBCD. Use 3 drops of very hot water to mix 30mg harmine with x6 or 180mg HPBCD. When preparing for oral one-shot Ayahuasca use, I tend to use slightly more drops as stated in step #4 above. Then mix this HPBCD complexed harmine into your HPBCD complexed DMT...then place bottom of tongue onto the spoon of harmine and DMT complex, it will all adhere, as HPBCD forms sticky complexes....be sure you took 150mg to 300mg of pure THH orally 45 minutes before....hold this harmine/dmt HPBCD sublingual complex under tongue for 10 to 15 minutes depending on dosage, it will all absorb, experience begins in 22 minutes once you start all this, or 1/2 the time of an oral dosage...but the experience still lasts 1.5 hour or the same time as an oral dosage with super long afterglow. You can re-dose up to two more times and each dose will be as strong as the first for a 4.5 hour total long experience. Remember: sublingual 30mg HPBCD harmine has the power of x6 or 180mg oral harmine, it works very well to activate the DMT. -------------------------------- Pic1: top to bottom: 300mg pure THH, 30mg harmine freebase, 180mg HPBCD to complex the harmine, 140mg dmt freebase, 980mg HPBCD to complex the dmt. Pic2: 30mg harmine freebase complexed to 180mg HPBCD in 4 drops boiling hot water and 140mg dmt freebase complexed to 980mg HPBCD in 12 drops boiling hot water. Artwork courtesy of top: Chuck Sperry, bottom top: F. Scott Hess "art studio drama", bottom left: F. Scott Hess "Allegory of Mud", bottom right: Jamie Adams "Jeannie for Narina" Edited by tregar (04/21/22 03:22 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/17/21 Posts: 1,303 Last seen: 12 hours, 23 minutes |
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Got my harmaline and complex and DMT.
I'm definitely considering trying this on my next day off. Never tried oral DMT/Aya, so this will be really interesting. -------------------- Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say. Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion. Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one. Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin. MIND OVER MATTER ![]()
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Wanna-be-cultivar Registered: 08/19/20 Posts: 258 Last seen: 4 hours, 15 minutes |
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I am considering trying this with my friends soon and will report back.
Is it necessary to complex the harmine with hpbcd? Does it increase absorbtion that significantly over something like a hcl salt or fumarate salt (if that's even possible with harmine) Also I'm now suspect of my thh supply. I read an earlier comment from you saying it should glow bright blue. Well, mine does but only in speckles (no green to speak of though). Seems that my supplier may have cut it with something. I'll follow your process to make my own Can I use lye in place of ammonium hydroxide? I imagine the step there is only to separate the freebase from the salt and it should be ok. Speaking of this: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/ This really ought to be made in to its own tek on the dmt nexus wiki. Very simple and easy to follow. Using elemental zinc scared me for a minute though lol Edited by Jacubey (04/20/22 09:06 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Good luck TrancedoutBrah and Jacubey. No you can not use lye, you can find 10% ammonium hydroxide at old mom and pop hardware stores or on-line. Around three dollars a gallon locally.
Yes, the HPBCD complexed DMT or harmine increases absorption by 400% into sublingual or intestinal tissues, as it is a potent polysaccharide. DMT salts do not work sublingually at all, and the HPBCD DMT is many factors more potent than DMT salts. HPBCD DMT is just like using very potent jungle Hawaiian psychotria leaf which contains loads of potent polysaccharides, that's why the leaf is so strong and all-encompassing, just like the HPBCD DMT..
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Wanna-be-cultivar Registered: 08/19/20 Posts: 258 Last seen: 4 hours, 15 minutes |
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Gotcha. The zinc dust is on its way and I found the janitorial strength 10% ammonium hydroxide/90% water.
In the mean time I am planning on trying hpbcd Complexed harmine and dmt (no thh) this weekend. I'd like to have a personal direct comparison to thh VS no thh with this roa As an aside, I only had Harmaline HCl on hand and had to freebase it. Its a very simple process of course, but I neglected to wear gloves when handling the powder during cleanup. The residue is extremely difficult to get off through normal means (dish soap, hand soap, vinegar, shower, still some remaining) and I assume has been going through skin absorption. The residue is mostly gone now (2 days later), but I've spent the last 2 days feeling mildly sedated, averse to doing work, and very chatty. I hadn't had a UV lamp til now, and would have never been able to make this association before, though I've likely had the same experience in the past. I will only ever handle these substances with gloves anymore. Harmaline especially. Edited by Jacubey (04/22/22 08:49 AM)
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Registered: 12/07/10 Posts: 12,880 Last seen: 2 months, 8 days |
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You guys might also be interested in 9-methyl-beta-carboline: https://www.shroomery.org/forum
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