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Offlinetregar
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HPBCD DMT very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca * 3
    #27278392 - 04/22/21 07:51 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)
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HPBCD complexed DMT made very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca, 2 minute formed alternative to fumarate salt.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96861&p=3

Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) effects
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman

Latest findings:

part 10: update 5-12-21 see post #25, ORAL AYAHUASCA REPORT: 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD in 10 drops very hot water formed clear 0.500ml solution after 2 minutes of kneading/mashing on a spoon: clear solution mixed into 2oz hot water solution of 200mg harmine + 250mg THH resulted in +5 Shulgin scale Shocked experience IDENTICAL to 30 grams potent Hawaiian psychotria brew (Having taken 30 to 40 grams of Hawaiian psychotria with Caapi over 70 times over a period of many years).

70mg HPBCD DMT absorbed several factors better than oral freebase DMT or DMT salts (all were mild +3 Sad experiences in a dozen trials, due to poor oral body absorption). The HPBCD DMT out performed and absorbed better than the dozen DMT salt experiments (70 to 120mg) I performed years ago. The results are similar to several papers I have read in which HPBCD was used to enhance the absorption of oral pharmaceuticals over their normal oral absorption by many factors.

Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.Thumbs up

part 11: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD with 10 drops very hot water on a spoon with 2 minutes of mashing & stirring:

PHENOMENAL strength, active for 90 minutes, profound open eyed beauty, heavy CEV imagery, music incredible, very euphoric. See very last post of this thread.
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration

I found a thread here from 2012 entitled "Complexing DMT freebase for sublingual administration" After reading all 3 pages, I learned that no user in the thread attempted HPBCD complex to DMT, so I did an experiment to find out if it works.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=30071

I used a 7:1 gram weight ratio of HPBCD (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, molar weight between 1200 to 1500 g/mol) on auction sites and elsewhere, to DMT (molar weight = 188g/mol) in order to keep the molar ratio of cyclodextrin to host drug at a 1:1 molar ratio.

What I did was place 30mg freebase dmt on a spoon, add 210mg of HPBCD powder on top the DMT, add 5 drops (less than 0.250ml) of VERY HOT near boiling water from a pipette, this was water that was pre-heated up in microwave in coffee cup. I knead/mash & mix it all together using end of a spoon for 2 minutes, it turns into a clear sticky solution, then draw up liquid with pipette, place drops under tongue and hold for 15 minutes. The DMT will all dissolve into the bloodstream.

210mg of HPBCD may look like alot when laid out, but when even just a few drops of hot water is added to it, it shrinks into a small sticky clear mass as it is derived from a sugar molecule, perfect for "under the tongue" use.

Strong effects at 5 minutes after the end of the 15 minute HPBCD DMT sublingual drug delivery under tongue: tryptamine rush/buzz & greatly elevated heart rate & pulse, dilated pupils...neon colorful visuals/visions...peak at 30 to 45 minutes, duration 60 to 90 minutes. 250mg tetrahydroharmine taken orally 3 hours earlier, transcendent combination, music sounded heavenly, the spiritual power of music.

I would imagine this might allow those who normally get nausea from oral preps to avoid the nausea. There is no burn under tongue, taste yes. I used this 3 times in one night over the course of several hours with THH, and my tongue was just fine, no burn or scarring. Felt just fine next day too. I experienced profound beauty and had visuals, very transcendent. Zero nausea.

Narang and Sharma mention in their 2010 sublingual paper that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral. HPBCD makes the non-water soluble DMT water soluble. It traps and delivers small molecules such as DMT extremely effectively across the mucosa membrane under the tongue, with it's high permeability (only 100 to 200 micrometers thick) and rich blood supply--shuttling the DMT directly to bloodstream.

Most studies recommend a 1:1 equimolar ratio of HPBCD to host drug for complexing.

This was using DMT cleaned up using a sodium carbonate wash. PKA of DMT is 8.75 or so, so please do not use a sodium bicarbonate wash -- it will eat up most of your DMT, as ph of bicarb is not high enough, it needs to be 1 to 2 points higher than PKA of DMT, at 11 or 11.5 or so is perfect, where 100% sodium carbonate PH is at, found in pool isle of home box store.

HPBCD is a new technology that allows freebase nonpolar drugs like DMT to be trapped by the cyclodextrin inner cavity which is composed of an inner "non-polar trap", and "outer polar cavity or cone" which allows the normally water insoluble DMT to be made 100% water soluble.

HPBCD is composed from a sugar molecule, it has been used to make scores of other non-water soluble drugs 100% water soluble and reach peak activity as measurements of the drug in the bloodstream indicated that all of the freebase drug was absorbed effectively.

Other examples of non water soluble freebase non-polar drugs complexed with HPBCD made water soluble: hormones, pregnisolone, etc.

Apparently, this also makes the DMT absorb very well if taken orally as well, possibly improving even the oral bio-availability substantially when taken with RIMA's to activate it, etc.

THH or tetrahydroharmine can be taken orally (100, 150 to 200mg), my favorite in combo, while the DMT can be used sublingually, allowing the best of both worlds. No nausea felt. Have tried this in dreams several times in one night, and it works extremely well, tryptamine rush felt around 5 or more minutes after sublingual application, peak at 30 to 45 minutes, like an extended sub-breakthrough, excellent for long lasting transcendental contemplation and work. Best to limit to once a week or so, so no tolerance.

professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Quote:
Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.

I agree with his statement. Should add that music sounds quite incredible on a combo of 150mg or more of THH + DMT as tetrahydroharmine imho breaks down the filters or barriers in the mind, so that "mind at large" can be let loose, very similar to listening to music on cactus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_at_Large

In TIHKAL, 300mg of tetrahydroharmine (THH) is equated by one psychonaut to the closed eye visionary (CEV) power of 100mg harmaline, but without all the nausea and dizziness. I totally agree. It glows blue under blacklight, like LSD or psilocin & has a metallic-like lingering taste with a 10.5 hour half-life.

Don't forget that this should improve the ORAL BIOAVAILABILITY of dmt when combined with a RIMA as well -- this technology has been used to potentiate these freebase drugs ORALLY as well -- this could potentially mean an Ayahuasca experience that is strong in potency.

"Sublingual mucosa as a route for systemic drug delivery" by Narang & Sharma 2010:
https://innovareacademic...pps/Vol3Suppl2/1092.pdf

As you can see from this sublingual viagra study, even 50 to 100mg doses can be administered under the tongue, the authors noting that less of the drug was required, and that it began working in only one half the normal time of an oral dose:

"The start of pharmacological activity after sublingual administration of sildenafil citrate in 30 patients affected by erectile dysfunction." by Siati & Franzolin 2003:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12741340/

Tetrahydroharmine on it's own will also yield the same type visions as harmaline, it just takes more of it. For example, around 300mg of THH will yield the same visions as about 100mg harmaline...even if the THH dose is split in two over several hours, the visions will still be apparent some time after the 2nd dose takes effect, the doses are additive.

THH in the caapi also seems to strongly activate the right hand hemisphere of the brain-- the side that performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts, feelings, visualizations, imagination, holistic thinking & intuition, empathy, spirituality & connectedness. Researchers found that the right side of the brain lit up in brain scans of people who took LSD, mescaline, or mushrooms. This includes tetrahydroharmine. The world is largely moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development.

Quote from TIHKAL by Dr. Shulgin "More studies on tetrahydroharmine are absolutely imperative."
Note: I spent much time pulling up many threads on "sublingual or nasal fumarate salt DMT", and they were all dissapointing reads, whereas the several HPBCD complexed 30mg DMT experiments I performed were strong indeed--held under tongue for 15 minutes, 5 minutes later: rapid heartbeat, rapid pulse, dilated pupils, felt distinct tryptamine rush & buzz take over my body, neon colored CEV visuals. Felt elation, euphoria especially in combo with the THH which I had taken many hours earlier.

Music sounded very good, experienced profound beauty with open eyes & CEV's with closed eyes. The duration was long. I re-dosed more 30mg HPBCD complexed DMT every hour for the next 3 hours, it was a sublime experience. I should have gone even higher in dosage to gauge. The afterglow even after the 3 hour period was fantastic. I watched a movie and had a fantastic time.

Have no explanation for how well this worked, there must be something special going on with the complexed HPBCD DMT, I can feel that it all absorbs in less than 15 minutes, and it wastes no time in reaching the brain unhindered, very impressed with this route of administration.

Look forward to hearing from other experimenters, HPBCD is dirt cheap. I bought my 1kg tub for less than the price of two movie tickets over 12 years ago, had been sitting in my closet all that time, used it in the past for complexing pro-hormones for sublingual use, very effective I might add, been a weight lifter since my early 20's. I read other weight lifters were doing the same, so I copied what they were doing before pro-hormones were banned.

Keep in mind that only a portion or "tail end" of the host molecule is needed to attach or fit into the cyclodextrin cone, and that's all that is needed to be "trapped". I attached a picture of this below. The cyclodextrins have toroidal shapes, with the larger and the smaller openings of the toroid exposing to the solvent secondary and primary hydroxyl groups respectively.

Post #8 is all about the 2016 Polish morning glory study and the new 2020 receptorome data which compares LSH in the morning glory seeds to LSD, important new data never seen before.

Stay true to yourself, Love, Peace and Music
http://www.friskyradio.com





Edited by tregar (05/23/21 07:15 PM)


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Offlinetregar
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278400 - 04/22/21 07:59 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Question asked:
"Will it also increase the bio activity of psilocybin or block it?"
Quote:

Great question. Psilocybin is an alkaloid that is already soluble in water, so its absorption into the bloodstream is not improved or enhanced by HPBCD's. HPBCD's is a technology used to greatly enhance the absorption of freebase or non-polar molecules, like freebase DMT. It makes it 100% water soluble.



I strongly suggest taking 100, 150 or 200mg of THH or tetrahydroharmine first, then take the HPBCD complexed DMT under tongue around 30 minutes later. You can continue to take more HPBCD complexed DMT doses sublingually for several more hours. This results in a mind-expanding experience very similar to cactus -- music sounds incredible, infinite beauty is seen all around you, powerful spiritual insights and divine transcendence. THH has a half life of 10.5 hours, so for 5 hours you can enter this remarkable state of expanded divine consciousness.

You can alternately also combine the drops of HPBCD complexed DMT liquid with a warm to hot water solution of harmine and THH dissolved all together and ALL taken at the exact same time for a powerful pharmahuasca experience identical to true Ayahuasca. Freebase DMT complexed this way with HPBCD will dissolve into the bloodstream of the stomach very effectively when taken with harmine & THH, for a strong journey nearly identical to if you were to use strong water soluble psychotria leaf DMT actives, which is hard to find now days, with Hawaiian leaf nearly extinct.

Caapi contains tetrahydroharmine as it's second largest alkaloid, and contributes greatly to the experience in many postitive ways, besides it's visionary, brightening and coloring abilities, it goes way beyond that....it strongly inactivates barriers or filters in the brain (like LSD and cactus does) so that "mind at large" as coined by Aldous Huxley can be let loose a bit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_at_Large

Tetrahydroharmine on it's own will also yield the same type visions as harmaline, it just takes more of it. For example, around 300mg of THH will yield the same visions as about 100mg harmaline...even if the THH dose is split in two over several hours, the visions will still be apparent some time after the 2nd dose takes effect, the doses are additive.

THH in the caapi also seems to strongly activate the right hand hemisphere of the brain-- the side that performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts, feelings, visualizations, imagination, holistic thinking & intuition, empathy, spirituality & connectedness. Researchers found that the right side of the brain lit up in brain scans of people who took LSD, mescaline, or mushrooms. This includes tetrahydroharmine. The world is largely moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development.

Quote from TIHKAL by Dr. Shulgin "More studies on tetrahydroharmine are absolutely imperative."

--------------------------------------------
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
--------------------------------------------

This is why I suggest taking the DMT with tetrahydroharmine (as found in true Ayahuasca):

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
hxxp://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max or "off the charts", 0.00=min
Quote:

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (make up >80% of brain 5-ht)
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69 (sensual & entactogenic)
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69 (novelty & new ideas)
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2a)
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2b)
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2c)



2011 Thomas S. Ray study: Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min
Quote:

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (these serotonin filters/gates/barriers/doors make up >80% of brain 5-ht & are broken down when 5-ht1a is agonized)



Dr. Nichols (Heffter.org LSD paper):
Quote:

LSD has very strong potency in blocking the action of serotonin. LSD is strongly "anti-serotonin". The morpholide lysergamide cousin had only about 1/10th the potency in blocking serotonin. Of the 5 diferent dialkylamides we studied LSD was the most potent and specific serotonin antagonist. 5-ht1a makes up >80% of brain 5-ht receptors.



As we go thru day to day life, the 5-ht1a brain serotonin filters (gates, or day to day survival filters as I like to call them) which make up over 80% of brain 5-ht are in place so that we will not be overwhelmed by the perception of the way things would appear to an un-filtered mind, or "Mind at Large" as Aldous Huxley describes it in "Doors of Perception" as "infinite or eternal". He also referred to the visions as coming from "the other world" in his book "Moksha". I prefer to think of it in similar terms as well "the spirit world" or "the other world".

5-ht1a inhibition by entheogens (in green above) theoretically cause this filter system to be lifted, and the infinite mind to manifest in combination with oral dmt with the tetrahydroharmine providing the 5-ht1a inhibition & additional adrenal system agonization (A2A thru A2C), just as bufotenine in snuff's provide the 5-ht1a inhibition combined with the dmt in the snuff's, resulting in a 3 hour experience ie both examples of Teamwork on how these entheogens are used traditionally in the Amazon.

Thomas S. Ray's study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate. Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Tetrahydroharmine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is an SRI found in caapi. In other words, both are strong serotonin reuptake inhibitors which inhibit over 80% of brain 5-ht at 5-ht1a.

In contrast, as an example, Cocaethylene (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, the orally active & potent ingredient formed in the liver from cocaine + ethanol in the 1860's "Vin Mariani" wine popular with both Popes, Thomas Edison and scores of other famous people) increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor [SNDRI; also known as a "triple reuptake inhibitor"].

Cocaethylene has a higher affinity for the dopamine transporter than does cocaine, but has a lower affinity for the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters. In McCance-Katz et alia's 1993 study cocaethylene "produced greater subjective ratings of 'High' in comparison with administration of cocaine or alcohol alone."


Edited by tregar (04/27/21 07:48 PM)


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Offlinetregar
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278401 - 04/22/21 08:01 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

--------------------------------------------
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine effects
--------------------------------------------

The Ayahuasca closed eye visions using 100, 150 to 200mg tetrahydroharmine or THH and HPBCD complexed DMT (30mg on up) together surpass in magnificence anything I have ever seen in reality or in works of art.

With open eyes, all spiritual things such as nature, art, female form, beauty, joy, take on significant meaning with infinite beauty, just like with cactus or LSD. Extraordinary beauty is manifested with open eyes and with the visions one sees with closed eyes. Impossible neon-like colors are seen that don't exist on this Earth.

The existence of a higher spiritual plane is recognized to which insight can and must be gained, yet it does not reject the mundane reality as inferior or empty. This joyous embracement of the world of form leads to words like infinite pleasure, beauty and joy. This loving reappraisal of the worldly forms leads the way to higher divine planes.


Edited by tregar (05/14/21 08:09 PM)


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Offlinetregar
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278402 - 04/22/21 08:02 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

--------------------------------------------
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
--------------------------------------------

A little off topic, but I think tetrahydroharmine is a pretty special compound. I've used 250mg of it to potentiate cactus to very strong levels, it makes a 12" medium san pedro cactus tea which may contain around 250mg mescaline feel like an X-large 12" thick san pedro cactus containing around 400mg mescaline. It makes a 12" thick bridgesii cactus feel closer to a tea made with a 12" bridgesii cactus along with an extra 6" piece.

In the data I've seen for THH, it strongly blocks serotonin just like cactus, but also agonizes the adrenal A2A thru A2C receptors (the receptors associated with aesthetics & beauty), just like mescaline has been shown to do receptorome wise, explaining perhaps why they "overlap" so well. THH being able to make mescaline in cactus feel much stronger than it really is. Anyone who has ever taken cactus or high dose THH knows the appreciation for beauty experienced is "over the top".

But you have to stagger the THH from the cactus by taking the tetrahydroharmine around an hour after the cactus is taken, that way any minor maoi's or rima's in the cactus won't interact with the SRI which is THH, which can result in a faster heartbeat for a few hours which has happened to me before...so long as you take it later, it potentiates the cactus quite incredibly...it feels like I've taken 400mg of mescaline containing cactus tea when it's really only 250mg mescaline containing cactus, and they both lasts around 6 hours with super strong activity, so they wind down at around the same time. I have around 7 months experience combining the two, giving myself around 2 weeks apart from journeys.

It works so well, I won't take cactus any other way from now on. I get much more mileage from cactus this way. Visuals and visions are insane, music is so good sounding, you would think you were an alien experiencing sound and music for the very first time, every instrument stands out on it's own, like hearing a track for the very first time. It's a game changer.


Edited by tregar (04/27/21 08:00 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27278404 - 04/22/21 08:02 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

--------------------------------------------
Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
--------------------------------------------

A litte bit more on sublingual & nasal HPBCD complexed pharmaceuticals:

Several years ago, before "prohormones" were banned, there was a company called "Ergopharm" ran by chemist Patrick Arnold that made HPBCD complexed solutions of prohormones in a nasal spray & in a HPBCD complexed powder that was administered under tongue.

In 2001 Arnold's company introduced the prohormone 4-Androstenediol, under the marketing name 4-AD. 4-AD is a prohormone that is easily converted by the body into testosterone, and it sold well. He is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM).

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/ask-patrick-arnold-11/

I bought and used the nasal spray and it was very effective, had my testosterone level checked with a blood test at the local labcore one hour after administering the spray and it was 3,500 ng/dl ! when my normal level was 600ng/dl. Highest measured normal levels in men are around 1200 ng/dl. The blood test cost me $70.00. It had strong mental effects as well. The spray would cause the 4-ad to enter the bloodstream nasally, and convert to testosterone via enzyme activity.

Patrick Arnold also made a sublingual powder of HPBCD complexed 1-AD that could be grabbed from the bottle with a pre-measured scooper, and the powder held under tongue for around 10 minutes or so, sold just as well as the nasal spray, I tried the sublingual product he sold, and that again was effective.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The oral route using HPBCD complexed DMT in combination with a pharmahuasca RIMA/SRI combo (taken all at the same time in a hot water tea) holds much promise as well, for greatly increased absorption & strength.


Edited by tregar (04/27/21 07:50 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27278405 - 04/22/21 08:05 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

--------------------------------------------
Part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
--------------------------------------------

With Insufflation, sublingual or rectal, DMT is not broken down by monoamine oxidase.

See above paper from Narang et al, Intl J Pharm Sci, Vol 3, Suupl 2, 2011, 18-22:
"With sublingual or "under the tongue", the mucosea thickness is only 100-200, high permeability with rich blood supply, much better than buccal or gingival & palatal, 200, 250, 500 micrometer respectively, shuttling the drug directly to bloodstream." The DMT is not broken down via monamine oxidase whatsoever this way. It avoids the liver and first pass metabolism. The drug is rapidly absorbed via the rich blood supply vessels under the tongue rather than being broken down in the digestive track via the enzyme monamine oxidase. According to paper: "Sublingually administered drugs reach directly in to the blood stream through the ventral surface of the tongue and floor of the mouth. The drug solutes are rapidly absorbed into the reticulated vein which lies underneath the oral mucosa, and transported through the facial veins, internal jugular vein, and braciocephalic vein and then drained in to systemic circulation."

According to paper, "the absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection. Peak blood levels of most products administered sublingually are achieved within 10 to 15 minutes, which is generally much faster than when those same drugs are ingested orally." This has been my experience as well, after 10 minutes of sublingual under tongue application, 5 minutes after the 10 minute sublingual absorption, the DMT rush is felt, followed by 60 to 90 minutes of entheogenic activity. According to paper, "sublingual absorption of drugs is efficient. The percent of each dose absorbed is generally higher than that achieved by means of oral ingestion."

Smoked: If DMT is smoked, the maximal effects last for a short period of time (5 to 30 minutes, dose-dependent). The onset after inhalation is very fast (less than 45 seconds) and maximal effects are reached within about a minute.

Insufflation & Sublingual absorption via Oral Mucosa (under tongue): When DMT is insufflated (snorted through the nostrils) or absorbed sublingually via the complexing of the drug with HPBCD to make it water soluble, the duration is markedly increased.

Injection: Injected DMT produces an experience similar to inhalation in duration, intensity, and characteristics.

Oral ingestion: DMT, which is broken down by the digestive enzyme monoamine oxidase, is practically inactive if taken orally, unless combined with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI).

See post above on nasally and sublingually (under the tongue) delivered HPBCD complexed pro-hormones & testosterone, all very poorly water soluble like DMT, made water soluble with HPBCD.

As far as I know, I am the only one so far to have done this successfully. It is extremely easy. Back then when the nexus had that thread, most commercial HPBCD was not even available on auction sites or anywhere else. I had bought mine from a single bulk supplier on a whim over 12 years ago, and stored the whole tub in my closet, and just pulled it out the other day to use it for the 1st time on DMT, and I'm so glad I did! It does indeed work very well.


Edited by tregar (04/27/21 07:54 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27278406 - 04/22/21 08:06 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

--------------------------------------------
Part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
--------------------------------------------

FYI: The THH is an SRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor with significant adrenal activity at A2A thru A2C receptors, similar to mescaline in that regard), it has super weak MAOI activity (see Wikipedia on tetrahydroharmine).

I looked up the data comparing RIMA activity of THH to harmine from a lab supplier who gave the data, and they referenced THH as only having around 1/100th the RIMA strength of harmine, practically non-existent strength as a RIMA. That would mean it would take 20,000mg of THH to equal 200mg of harmine in RIMA strength. Harmine & harmaline however have significant RIMA/MAOI activity.

P.S. I have not actually tried the sublingual DMT by itself, I always prefer it with THH taken orally about 1/2 hour before applying the sublingual HPBCD DMT under my tongue. THH will not activate the DMT at all, but the combo of the two (oral THH + sublingual complexed DMT) is my absolute favorite after trying this several times.

How to best describe THH or tetrahydroharmine:

THH alone (200 to 300mg) with open eyes = everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day, just like professor8 describes it. A study done once on the UDV found that brews with high levels of tetrahydroharmine were preferred over all other brews, they found the "dmt was not the main attraction" but actually brews high in THH, fascinating study.

With 250mg to 300mg THH, closed eye dream-like Ayahuasca visions actually form with closed eyes that begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours, These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT seems to add color and brightness to the visions. The DMT also of course adds strong psychedelic alterations & activity to the journey and enhances the quality of music in combo with THH, music sounds incredible as mentioned before for several hours, especially if you keep taking the sublingual DMT around once an hour for the next 3 hours.

Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 90mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least a dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.

The sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT tried the other day was all encompassing and strong at only 30mg, very impressed, I can only imagine where stronger doses will carry this psychonaut.

After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! Most of the experiences were +4 to +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt.

This agrees with what I read from clearlight:
Quote:

Clearlight experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.




Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:
Quote:

Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.

Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.

An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.

I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.

It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?

With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.

When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.




However, at this point, I have noticed that ALL the dried Hawaiian psychotria is extinct, and is no longer available. So I am looking forward in dreams to oral HPBCD complexed DMT at around 60mg on up, and hoping this will do the trick, I'm sure it will after having experienced what I really love with the 30mg sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT.

I have read HPBCD complexing these non-water soluble freebase drugs to make them orally 100% water soluble should make it absorb very effectively in the body, so I do believe it will be possible to once again achieve very strong journeys, similar to the ones I used to have using strong water soluble psychotria leaf.

I often found the oral DMT too short as it would wind down after 90 minutes of taking the pharmahuasca, and I am very glad I found this new complexing method so that I can take a "sublingual dose" if I choose at 90 minutes, to extend the journey at least another 90 minutes, to get a full 3 hours of strong activity out of it, that is my goal, and I feel I am one step closer after having experienced the 30mg HPBCD complexed DMT experiment that was successful.

1) This could also be used to make HPBCD complexed DMT drops which can be added to a hot water tea that already has (around 180 to 220mg) harmine and (150 to 250mg) tetrahydroharmine dissolved in it (using added crushed vitamin C or similar to dissolve) for a SUPER POTENT ORAL pharmahuasca exeperience. Mix it all together and take at the exact same time, just as the Shaman's do. This is how I used to take the Ayahuasca over 65 times I made using same ingredients mixed into 2oz of hot psychotria leaf tea filtered and boiled down to 2oz.

2) Don't forget the importance of tetrahydroharmine or THH, which is 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi made Ayahuasca...you will want to experience real TRUE Ayahuasca, which is a brew high in it (from 150 to 250mg, 250 to 300mg for intense visions):

My last time taking 300mg of THH alone, I saw the interior decorations of palaces, the checkered floors, the beautiful windows and furniture, the winding stair cases, I was blown away, I've seen sacred temples for religious worship, beautiful animals and super fine women, birds of all kinds. I even saw a world war two fighter plane in the same session, it looked like the famous supermarine spitfire in full detail. Caapi tells a story when you drink it with eyes closed, she teaches you things, the most beautiful "realistic visions" that no other entheogen comes close to showing you, these realistic visions go on for long periods.

THH with open eyes: everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day.

All of the closed eye visions for me begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours. These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT adds brightness and color to the visions, for example, animals seen will have colored patterning. It also adds strong psychedelic alterations to the journey. Music will sound very alien & incredibly good.

In one past journey, saw three beautiful naked woman dancers twirling in front of stone pillars that rotated slowly. Jungle scenes lit up by the moonlight, full of snakes and palm trees by the beach and lots of people I had known in my life in floating bubbles that were to the left and right of the scene, drifting up into the sky. Elephants from India embellished with vibrantly colored jhools (saddle cloth) and heavy jewellery and sparkling anklets. Detached female faces of breath-taking beauty with freckles. Waterfalls in the middle of the jungle.

With another session, saw barely dressed women wearing futuristic clothing and bikinis of some sort, dazzling in it's design. A spinning vortex made of blue color with closed eyes that opened up in front of me that looked like a wormhole of some sort, I travelled inside of it, and was dropped off on an island in the pacific with wooden Tikis all around the perimeter of a small culture. I saw a chalkboard full of mathematical equations and scientific discoveries drawn out. I flew like a bird for nearly a minute over what looked like Los Angeles, as I could see the homes with swimming pools and parks below me.

I've seen pyramids adorned with gold sheen, architecture of the past and future, Egyptian scenery, vast landscapes, medieval scenery, it goes on and on. Everything is brand new as if newly created. Very similar to the Ayahuasca visions encountered by Benny Shanon in "Antipodes of the Mind".

Stay true to yourself. Love, Peace & music
http://www.friskyradio.com/


Edited by tregar (05/14/21 08:08 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar] * 1
    #27278410 - 04/22/21 08:08 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)
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----------------------------
Part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
----------------------------

Here are a few of my other topics in case you are interested:

13,000 views:
Positronic Ayahuasca brewing
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82030

12,000 views:
Receptorome study: how traditional Ayahuasca & snuffs differ from dmt
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83164

6,000 views:
New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water
https://mycotopia.net/topic/110273-new-research-morning-glory-contains-5-stimulating-lsd-like-drugs-soluble-only-in-winealcohol-only-sparingly-soluble-in-water/

Has the Mystery of the Eleusinian Mysteries been solved? by Ivan Valencic
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/valencic.htm

For a visual high dose claviceps paspali (same fresh alkaloid profile as the fresh Mesoamerican Aztec/Mayan morning glory) ergot wine trip report prepared by LSD chemist Todd Skinner, reported in the literature: read Krystle Cole's 3 page report on page 2 post #32 of morning glory link above.

She saw "constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head."

It just so happens that the ancient Aztec and Mayan also added the fresh or dried pulverized morning glory seeds to a drink containing alcohol, they learned this would extract all the stimulating actives from the seeds:

Page 515 "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" Christian Ratsch:
Quote:

The fresh or dried morning glory seeds normally were added by the Aztec and Mayan to alcoholic drinks (sugarcane liquor; c. alcohol), tepache (maize beer, chicha), and balche' (Schultes 1941, 37).




The merck index shows that (1) elymoclavine, (2) agroclavine, (3) chanoclavine & (4) penniclavine in the seeds are best soluble in alcohol (sparingly soluble in water).

(5) Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) in the seeds only survives outside the seeds in an acidic environment (example: such as cold sherry wine which is already at ph=4). LSH decomposes in ionic conditions, neutral water (plain water), when heated, or in alkaline environments. See very bottom attached illustration of how LSH decomposes to LSA unless extracted into acidic water, wine, etc.

Important new 2020 receptorome binding data just came out this year that is available for LSH or Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide found in morning glory seeds. See below:

http://www.t3db.ca/toxins/T3D3687
hxxp://www.t3db.ca/toxins/T3D3687

5-ht2a, 5-ht2b, 5-ht2c, adrenal A1A, adrenal A1B, adrenal A1D, adrenal A2A, adrenal A2B & adrenal A2C

This is important as it shows LSH binds to just about all the adrenal receptors, while LSD only binds to one of the adrenal receptors: A2A in comparison (as far as adrenal receptors are concerned). See chart below: DMT, mescaline & psilocin all bind to many of the adrenal receptors. The adrenal receptors are implicated in the perception of aesthetics, beauty.

This may explain why the semi-synthetic man-made LSD has been perceived by many to have less aesthetic appreciation than the natural entheogens: LSH, mescaline, Ayahuasca (harmine + tetrahydroharmine + harmaline) with Caapi, dmt, psilocin. It's man-made quality may be more perceptable due to it's lack of significant adrenal agonism, which is prominent with the natural entheogens.

Example: Mescaline has a rating of 4.00 at adrenal A2C (see below), 4.00 = max = off the charts, and anyone who has ever consumed cactus knows the appreciation for beauty is "thru the roof" or "over the top".

Important teamwork is going on between LSH and penniclavine in the seeds, the 2 highest alkaloids. Agroclavine and penniclavine in the seeds (metabolite of agroclavine) bind to 5-ht1a, 5-ht2a, 5-ht6, 5-ht7, adrenal A2A, A2C, A2D, and most of the dopamine receptors in comparison. See "Agroclavine & Penniclavine radioligand (receptorome) data, Planta Med. 1996 Oct; 62(5): 387-92."

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
https://journals.plos.or...71/journal.pone.0009019
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max (off the charts), 0.00=min, X.XX=receptor is hit but we don't have strength data.
Quote:

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57
LSD: -A-2D = 0.00, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1A = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1B = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1D = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00



I don't know if you remember morninglory seed from long ago? He was on another forum. Here is one of his old classic posts that makes alot of sense:

morningloryseed:
Quote:

Unlike most alkaloids, LSA is water soluble when it is in its natural, freebase state...the way it is found in the seeds. it is a rare, exception to a rule because by simple definition, alkaloids are very alkaline or basic when in their freebase form as they normally occur in plants. Thus, they do not dissolve well into water. Most likely, many of the other ergoline akaloids probably are not water-soluble in their freebase form and thus are not extracted from the ground seed matter when a "tea" is made. or they get dissolved into the non-polar solvent used when an A/B extract is performed and they are thrown away.

Thus, extracts have a different mix of alkaloids and that is why the trip from A/B extracts or a "tea" of m. g. seeds feels so different than that of the whole seeds. In my vast experience with eating the seeds, and taking extracts, the trip that results is not as good. And I've taken the seeds more than any other psychedelic, except LSD and marijuana. I find them much more narcotic/sedative-like in nature and the effects are really nothing like that which I get from EATING the seeds.

The fact that teas or other extracts feel very different from the trip of the whole seed has also been noted by everyone I've shared m.g. seed tea with, and is a comoon thing reported in trip reports. So this is definitely not a phenomena that I am alone in feeling. Many, many, many people IM or email me with morning glory seed questions and most of them who have tried both have also noted that extracts are not as psychedelic and nowhere near as potent as eating the whole seeds.

The seeds do cause nausea and vomiting (as many other psychedelics like ayahuasca, mescaline, ibogaine, etc.) but a purge, I feel great. Like I said, I think the seeds are one of the best psychedelics, and I have tried quite a number of different ones.

Extractions such as a simple morning glory "tea", or the more complicated A/B extraction, will give you a mixture of different LSA's than those found in the whole seeds. It is the combination of all the ergoline alkaloids in the seeds that make you trip.

The main alkaloid is the mostly sedating LA-111, but many others (up to a dozen or so) including d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (closest molecule to LSD found in nature), are known to occur in the seeds. Together, they have a synergestic efffect and produce a very different kind of experience from pure LA-111. It is (in my opinion) a great trip. One of my favorites. Of course the trip from seeds is very different from LSD. But because it is different than LSD does not mean it is not as good. I think they are both very useful. Some of my most meaningful trips have been with natural lysergic acid amides.




Example page from Merck on agroclavine (found in morning glory seeds):
Quote:

agroclavine is soluble in ethanol, chloroform, pyridine, soluble in benzene and ether, very little water soluble.




From "The Alkaloids: Chemistry and Physiology", page 32:
Quote:

Agroclavine is readily soluble in organic acids, agroclavine is stable to acids", wine stands as one of the sources of organic acids. Page 33 "Elymoclavine is only somewhat soluble in water". Peter Webster states in "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, the Secrets of Eleusis" in the morning glory chapter that Chanoclavine is soluble in alcohol.




The hard data is lacking on whether the alkaloids in the seeds are in the freebase (like morninglory seed above describes) or in the salt form. Alkaloids such as mescaline and dmt are found in the salt form in the plant, and are readily water soluble. However, these half dozen alkaloids from morning glory are found within the tiny rubbery like embryo found within the seed.

To be on the safe side, extract into wine, as this will extract the alkaloids should they be in freebase form. This will give you an extract that is no different from "eating the seeds". Morninglory above is right in that the plain water extract is no where near similar to "eating the seeds" or an acidic wine extract (editor preferred).

(1) Hermes (the Lycaeum) "Saw strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are around 32 to 36 seeds to a gram. So 12 to 14 grams is 400 seeds to 500 seeds. I extract into water pre-acidified with a squirt of lemon juice. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything. I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing, all of this with nothing more than 500 seeds."

(2) Nogal (the Nook) "Yes I know of someone who tried the CWE method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffee grinder in place of a stone metate (I think that's what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form (again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin)."

(4) Piper methysticum: "Morning Glory seeds are definitely the most euphoric psychedelic I've ever taken during the onset and the first part of the peak. Not even a strong dose of MDA could compete with the euphoria I felt from 12g of Morning Glory seeds. However, the comparison of LSA alkaloids to MDA is ridiculous. The visuals from Morning Glory seeds are quite inconsistent for me. The first time I tried them, at 9g, the visuals were very dull, but the mental and physical aspects were awesome. My second time at 12g, the visuals were beyond amazing. I got the feeling of being completely in a warp through time and visuals were flying past me and unimaginable speeds. A couple of my unexperienced friends were talking about the tracers they were seeing at the same time this was happening to me. I had to laugh. With just 6g my third time, I also had some pretty amazing visuals, though they weren't nearly as mind blowing."

(5) Myself, 400 black hard fresh seeds right off vine, grown in 75% miracle grow & 25% cow manure compost: extracted with 2 shots (60ml) of fresh just opened cold sherry wine with added 10mg of DL tartaric acid powder added (auction sites or *ma*on), and stirred together in the wine really well.

DO NOT ADD MORE THAN 10mg DL tartaric acid to the 2 shots (60ml) of sherry wine...too much DL tartaric acid can upset ph balance of the body and you will feel really bad...10mg will keep ph no lower than 3.5. The wine will go from natural ph=4 down to ph=3.5, but no lower. You will need a 1mg (0.001g) electronic scale to do this, like the AWS GPR-20 20g x 0.001g scale for example. It needs to be DL tartaric acid and not just plain L tartaric acid, The d-form salt is the form LSD is active as for example, not the L-form.

You crush the seeds inbetween a paper plate with ends folded in, you hammer the plate on a concrete surface, then you add the crushed seed powder to a coffee grinder, and grind it till it is nearly a dust...then you add the dust like seed powder to the 60ml of cold sherry wine in a tall 1/2 pint jar, then you let it sit in fridge for 3 hours, with shaking & stirring once per hour.

Then at the end of 3 hour period, you decant off the top liquid from the seed debris at the bottom....filter the sherry wine liquid thru a cotton ball in a funnel which sits in a jar, change out the cotton ball when or if it clogs, I usually have to change the cotton ball out once or twice, the top of the cotton will turn black or dark brown. The cotton ball will remove ALL the nauseating debris from the sherry wine/seed mixture. You will be left with a golden clear to light brown golden liquid, this is what you drink--no nausea as all the debris has been removed!

Before you consume, always remember to keep the 2 shot sherry wine extract of the morning glory seeds cold at all times (in the fridge) as acetaldehyde boils off at room temp or 69 degree F. You don't want your LSH decomposing to LSA do you? You can freeze it too if you plan to use it at a later time.

I saw geometric patterns on the surface of everything, with closed eyes, colored vectors spun 360 degrees while traveling from left to right across visual plane. Sounds were not only amplified & music heavenly but audio hallucinations were produced, heavy euphoria component & very strong appreciation for beauty. Remember watching Scarlett Johansson interview on a small television and melting into the seat from her beauty amidst all the breath taking geometrics. Tripped hard as hell.

Note: Cold sherry cooking wine is recommended as an extraction solution since it is already at ph=4 and is 18% alcohol, and is also very cheap ($5 per bottle). It can be found in the wine isle of any grocery store, and is often on sale. It also contains 10mg acetaldehyde per each shot (30ml). A $9 wine preserver canister can be bought at Amazon which contains a gas mixture of argon, carbon dioxide & other inert gases which can be sprayed into an open bottle of sherry wine before sealing cork to preserve the wine indefinitely, otherwise the acetaldehyde in the wine converts to acetic acid over time, giving the wine a vinegar taste. The wine preserver contains enough gas to last for years of sealing many bottles.

2016 Polish morning glory study found 3x higher amounts of LSH in MG seeds direct from grower/producer vs retail:
Quote:

seeds direct from growers: 1.71 LSH to 5.08 penniclavine ratio
seeds off retail racks: 0.54 LSH to 4.75 penniclavine ratio



Immediately vacuum pack and freeze freshly picked dark hard black seeds off vine to preserve potency indefinitely.

Erowid report:
Quote:

400 older dried seeds is similar to a little less than one hit LSD. 400 fresh off vine is like about 2 or three hits.




dmthead420:
Quote:

Seems this does do alot more, its alot more refined, clean, less body high all mind high.. i extracted 700 riveas into 100 ml of lemon juice , 50ml water .. that sat 9hrs in the fridge(water stayed the color of lemon juice but smelled like alkaloids) i filtered and added 100ml of sherry wine and that sat 6hours..

A buddy and i sampled 12ml of this and the effect is way different from just eating the seeds or just a simple water extract..

No body feelings AT ALL, not even the normal body buzz.. just a extreme lsd like head and abstract thoughts, better sense of understanding.... Real soon i am def going to try a large dose ..I Feel GreaT...I will no longer do it any other way.....my friend says the same.




Norman said on 16 September 2019:
Quote:

Years ago I stumbled across a simple method for dosing HBWR.
Grind the seeds and cover them with white wine, let sit in the fridge for a day or so, shaking occasionally, decant, filter and drink.
No nausea no aches no vasoconstriction.
I am now off alcohol completely so I’m thinking of an alternative method short of a full on extraction.
I’m convinced that something in the wine besides water and alcohol is what makes the trip so clean. I’ve tried twelve percent water alcohol mixes in the past and still had the nasty side effects and at the same time the trip is not as strong.
I’m thinking acetaldehyde and or tartaric acid may be involved or at least a good place to start.
Any thought on what chemically may be going on?




Vecktor (advanced chemist):
Quote:

You have probably rediscovered something that has long been a curiosity, for example on the now defunct blacklight site there was TLC posted of morning glory seed extract treated with methanol, acetaldehyde-methanol or with acetaldehyde-methanol-water, the extract treated with acetaldehyde-methanol showed a clear difference in the alkaloid profile, with a shift to several new non polar spots which couldn't be identified. IIRC Erhlichs was used to develop the plates so these were indole compounds.




69ron:
Quote:

I know some of you out there are apt to believe the statements above because you've failed at making LSH and those statements above help you feel better about you're failure. Don't fall victim to that kind of crap. Try it again. Find out what you did wrong. When it works, the difference is HUGE, not a tiny difference, the experience is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. SWIM knows the effects of LSA and LSD very well. He’s used them many times. He guarantees that when the reaction works, there is NO NOTICEABLE LSA left at all in the experience. It becomes almost identical to an LSD experience at low doses. Totally different from LSA.

According to Albert Hofmann (the inventor of LSD), LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde. Adducts are very simple to make. You just mix them in solution, that's all.

The effect of adding acetaldehyde is HUGE. SWIM cannot feel any leftover LSA when the process is done right. So, like I said, I think those guys don't know what they're talking about and I believe Hoffman does, and that LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde and nothing more. No complex reaction is needed to make it. You just mix the two together and LSH forms. And I believe all of the LSA forms LSH, not just a small amount of it because you cannot feel any of the effects of LSA after this is done right.

When the conversion from LSA to LSH is complete it feels COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The reason some people can't tell the difference is because their conversion failed. It doesn't always works, but when it does, the difference in effects are night and day. No one would ever think the effects of LSH are anything at all like LSA. It's that different.




fastandbulbous (chem wizard from bluelight):
Quote:

Apparently N-(1-hydroxyethyl)lysergamide (LSH) is an adduct compound formed from lysergamide (lysergic acid amide, LSA/LAA, LA-111) and acetaldehyde. This hints towards the idea that isn't the most stable of compounds, but would be pretty easily formed by the combination of lysergamide (LSA) & acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (ie a way to get much more & better psychedelic activity from any lysergamide extracted from seed sources).




Chemist Peter Webster who spoke at the LSD symposium:
Quote:

LSH is a labile adduct of ergine (LSA) and acetaldehyde.




Mid April: I am growing a small fence line of heavenly blue morning glory, so I will let you all know how my new dream experiences go this October or November when I pick them out of the pods once hard and black, then immediately freeze them. The seeds all sprouted only 1 week after planting the seeds in the 75% miracle grow mixed with 25% cow manure compost, both from big box home store. I dug a small 2 to 3" trench into ground, and filled it with the soil mix, planted one seed every few inches, 95% of them sprouted one week later after watering them daily. I feed them 1 tablespoon of miracle grow powder mixed into 1 gallon of water in watering can x once a month only. This will yield seeds of very high potency.

The application of NPK fertilizer (miracle grow) + composted cattle manure increased crop yield by 48.9% compared to NPK fertilizer alone ---> from 2017 Frontiers in Microbiology, 05 Sept 2017 "Composted Cattle Manure Increases Microbial Activity and Soil Fertility." Some users report that their plants grew three times in size once they added miracle grow soil to their existing potting soil.

As you can see, I used zinc #212 "screw eyes" from hardware section of big box store screwed into fence after drilling a tiny hole for each one, and strung fishing line inbetween the eyelits, this supports the vine, this is how I have grown for years. Train the vine horizontally on the fishing line if you want and once the vine reaches top of 5' fence, it can cross over top of fence and continue to grow or droop downwards on opposite side, for many extra feet of growth.

Steps in the morning glory extraction (see very bottom attached photo):

I would suggest doing this under low light conditions, I personally replace a lamp in room with an LED Red bulb I found at grocery store in hardware section for five dollars when normally doing this.

1. eight grams weighed out on folded over paper plate, then hammered in between plate on concrete with hammer.

2. then the hammered mush was further ground in coffee grinder.

3. mush sitting in one half pint tall jar. (these jars can be found in canning section of stores)

4. 2 oz (60ml) of cold sherry wine added to mush and transferred to fridge for 20 minutes, shook hard every 5 minutes. (Shake hard three times or every 5 minutes during the 20 minute soak)

5. after 20 minutes in fridge observe course debris at bottom.

6. after 20 minutes in fridge, then filtered thru a cotton ball in a funnel, press on cotton ball using straw when dripping stops to get all remaining light colored wine solution out.

7. observe wine solution dripping thru cotton ball, solution is light colored and free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris!

8. closeup of 1st cotton ball in funnel after filtration, it took out ALOT of dark colored debris that is nauseating to stomach and intestines.

9. closeup of first cotton ball used for filtration, super dirty black at top 1/3rd portion.

10. first cotton ball changed out half way thru process, as it clogged, then replaced with a 2nd cotton ball to filter out remaining liquid which was in the funnel.

11. The end! 1.5 oz liquid collected from starting 2.0 oz, put back into fridge until use. Heavy nutty flavor, 100 percent free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris. All the actives remain in solution while the debris has all been eliminated. Prepare for a very euphoric and lucid visual trip with deep insights...combines extremely well with other entheogens as well.

12) Wine solution when dabbed on cue tip and touched to paper plate, glows bright blue

13) Her, underground house DJ

Pics appear to be posted backwards, no matter how I re-list them, 1st photo at very right, then in sequence from right to left. Very bottom photo of screen = step #2 the coffee grinder.

Stay true to yourself, Love, Peace and Music
http://www.friskyradio.com







--------------------------------------------
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
--------------------------------------------

This is how I got into growing morning glory, thought would share as I feel it was more a message from the Aztec Shaman, also goes to show the visual power of high dose LSD made from ergot alkaloids, this really happened.

Over 20 years ago, girlfriend and I both dropped 10 hits each of super old 15 year old decomposed acid given to us by a dear friend, he had stored it in between the pages of a book all that time without using a baggie, when held in front of blacklight, only around 60% of each blotter glowed, rest decomposed. It had a sick feeling for the first 2 hours, but then it worked and skyrocketed us to a higher divine plane, it was very strong.

She and I both saw the exact same vision for 20 minutes straight which had formed out of the shadows cast by the fake Christmas tree lights onto the wall--a 20 minute "schooling" by an ancient powerful & spiritually prominent Shaman from Aztec era --- I have never had an experience like that ever again to this day--it was a once in a lifetime opportunity.

The Shaman sat on a living chair made of spirit animals (birds, jaguars, otters, pumas, macaws, toucans) that morphed into other animals constantly, to the left and right of him were centaurs (half animal below, half naked female above), the great Pyramid of the Aztec capital behind him, and he showed me the rise and fall of several civilizations throughout time--and what is even more amazing--is that we both saw the exact same vision.

The Shaman wore a huge beautiful headdress made of feathers and the detail of the 20 minute animated vision was beyond 4k, and extremely detailed--it was also the vision in which I saw snakevines behind the centaurs, and before the Shaman left us at the end, he motioned to me with his eyes to look to the right of the living room out the window into the patio area where I had an empty garden plot--he was trying to tell me to plant entheogenic plants in the plot--that spring, summer & fall I grew morning glory in that plot on a large wide & tall wooden trellis cemented into the ground.

His point in showing me the rise and fall of the different civilizations was that I believe he was trying to tell me that "if humanity is to survive, the only hope is a Spiritual Solution".


Edited by tregar (05/14/21 08:07 PM)


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OfflineTheMagicConch
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27279253 - 04/23/21 02:37 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

This is a load of awesome info! Thanks!


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: TheMagicConch]
    #27279840 - 04/23/21 11:42 PM (1 month, 24 days ago)

THH is the best harmaline or MAOI for psychedelic journies for me, they called it telepanine for a reason.


--------------------
My Daily Stack: Rhodiola Rosea, True Calm, Ginkgo Biloba, Fresh Bee Pollen, Lions Mane/Reishi/Chaga/Cordyceps Complex, Kanna, Full Spectrum Multivitamin, Full Spectrum Omega Fatty Acids, Zyflamend Full Body Support, Turmeric and Black Pepper Complex, Ashwaghanda, Skullcap, Magnolia Bark, NAC, Beta-Carotene, Potassium and Magnesium.

Go ahead and PM me or ask about it, as well as microdosing LSD.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27280726 - 04/24/21 08:52 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Wow, thanks Tregar! This is the first I'm hearing about HPBCD and I'm already a huge fan of THH. I've been praising it for years and you've very clearly summarized why it is so special. In my experience, oral Caapi extracts containing THH are my favorite way to take DMT. People that have have only tried syrian rue are truly missing out. Mescaline is the only thing that can compete with THH Ayahuasca so my mind is blown to learn that you can combine THH with mescaline too! Have you ever taken Ayahuasca and cactus at the same time? I vaporized DMT on cactus and it is a combination that I can only describe as sacred.

Can you please PM me some advice on where to source HPBCD and THH? I have one caapi/THH vendor but it's sporadic. I'm all in for supporting the development of these experiences in modern society. The 60-90 minute trip duration sounds like a great option when smoking is too short and eating is too long.

I'm looking forward to experimenting with the HPBCD later. I have some questions: 

Can you clarify how complexed DMT freebase is stronger than say, DMT fumarate when taken orally? If the complexing is just to make it water soluble, wouldn't both options be equal when swallowed?
Why don't people sublingually take DMT salts?
Would the ethanol-prepared complexed DMT be dry enough to insufflate?
Could it be made into a nasal spray or inhaler?

"With Insufflation, sublingual or rectal, DMT is not broken down by monoamine oxidase."
Doesn't inhaling also bypass the MAO? I know from experience that harmine also potentiates and extends DMT inhaled through the lungs. So there must be MAO either in the lungs or blood stream. Makes me think MAOI's are a universal potentiator; even if you smoke, snort, sub or boof.


Edited by Icon (04/24/21 09:32 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Icon]
    #27280869 - 04/24/21 11:59 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

HPBCD can be purchased online, or eBay, without arousing any sort of suspicion.


--------------------
My Daily Stack: Rhodiola Rosea, True Calm, Ginkgo Biloba, Fresh Bee Pollen, Lions Mane/Reishi/Chaga/Cordyceps Complex, Kanna, Full Spectrum Multivitamin, Full Spectrum Omega Fatty Acids, Zyflamend Full Body Support, Turmeric and Black Pepper Complex, Ashwaghanda, Skullcap, Magnolia Bark, NAC, Beta-Carotene, Potassium and Magnesium.

Go ahead and PM me or ask about it, as well as microdosing LSD.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Typerwritermonky] * 1
    #27281212 - 04/25/21 09:41 AM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Thanks for comments TheMagicConch, typewritermonkey (I know you, good to see you again!), Icon, RoadAppleSnapple & Jomanda1990. Very nice to meet you all.

Icon said:
Quote:

...so my mind is blown to learn that you can combine THH with mescaline too!..the 60-90 minute trip duration sounds like a great option when smoking is too short and eating is too long.


Yes, I've combined 250mg of tetrahydroharmine (taken 1 hour after san pedro or brigesii tea), remarkable combination, makes a 250mg cactus tea feel like 400mg of cactus tea. I've seen the receptorome data for THH and mescaline in cactus, they overlap each other at all the A2A-A2C adrenal/beauty/aesthetic sites and both block serotonin strongly, perhaps why they work together so well. Do not take both at same time as to avoid any minor RIMA or MAOI alkaloids from the cactus interacting with the SRI which is THH, I've accidentaly done that before, faster heart beat for several hours, so stagger by taking THH one hour later. Yes Icon, agree the longer duration is great.:smile:

Question:
Quote:

Interesting read. This might sound silly but if the goal from the cyclodextrin is to solubilize the freebase DMT then why not just convert the freebase into its salt form and thus it will easily dissolve? Why doesn't DMT salt work for sublingual route?



Great idea, I used HPBCD over salting, only because I have past experience complexing prohormones to HPBCD, it's fast (30 seconds) and works well, as mentioned earlier, no burn or scarring, under tongue felt fine afterwards and next day. I would encourage someone who has access to both to do a study and compare each method: HPBCD complexed DMT to the salt form.

30mg HPBCD DMT under tongue was quite strong, WAY stronger than 30mg DMT I have taken orally with RIMA: harmine & SRI: thh combo, as mentioned in sublingual viagra study above, much less of the drug is needed when used sublingually and it starts working in only 1/2 the time of an oral pharmaceutical.

Icon, if you can't make the THH yourself, just google it I would imagine. Auction sites and elsewhere have the HPBCD.

Here is a pic of my 1kg tub of HPBCD:


Edited by tregar (04/25/21 08:51 PM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27281631 - 04/25/21 04:57 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Whoa!


This is incredible. Especially for folks who are uncomfortable with an MAOI, or cannot take them.

And for people who cant rip a bong etc without coughing their brain onto the carpet for 10min. (me).


So, basic idea is that one would acquire HPBCD (basically a chemical shell) and mix it with their extracted DMT 7:1. Hold under the tongue for 15min. 90min (ish) experience ensues. No hacking up a lung; no worries about maoi issues.


Thank you for sharing.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: RoadAppleSnapple]
    #27281674 - 04/25/21 05:29 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

@tregar

I saw this and was thinking "there goes tregar with his HPBCD experiments again!" lol.

I'm pretty sure nobody ever gave you credit for the 25inBOME HPBCD complex that exploded the nbome markets.  It may have been used for not good things, but science is for science sake.


--------------------
My Daily Stack: Rhodiola Rosea, True Calm, Ginkgo Biloba, Fresh Bee Pollen, Lions Mane/Reishi/Chaga/Cordyceps Complex, Kanna, Full Spectrum Multivitamin, Full Spectrum Omega Fatty Acids, Zyflamend Full Body Support, Turmeric and Black Pepper Complex, Ashwaghanda, Skullcap, Magnolia Bark, NAC, Beta-Carotene, Potassium and Magnesium.

Go ahead and PM me or ask about it, as well as microdosing LSD.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27281699 - 04/25/21 05:48 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Yes Typewritermonky, unfortunately, I was the one who introduced HPBCD complexing to 25i-nbome to the bluelight forum back in Jan of 2012, see "the big and dandly 25i-nbome thread, page 28" after that virtually every vendor in the world of the nbome's took my idea and begin marketing them as such.

I hope this thread will make up for that adversity. I flushed mine down the toilet long, long ago. I despise that nasty compound. Most of you have probably noticed I work with natural psychedelics, I avoid all man-made psychedelics.

RoadAppleSnapple said:
Quote:

Whoa!

This is incredible. Especially for folks who are uncomfortable with an MAOI, or cannot take them.

And for people who cant rip a bong etc without coughing their brain onto the carpet for 10min. (me).

So, basic idea is that one would acquire HPBCD (basically a chemical shell) and mix it with their extracted DMT 7:1. Hold under the tongue for 15min. 90min (ish) experience ensues. No hacking up a lung; no worries about maoi issues.

Thank you for sharing.


Yes, you nailed it RoadAppleSnapple, thanks for comments. Don't forget to take from 150 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine around 30 minutes before the sublingual under the tongue HPBCD DMT, music will sound incredible, divine transcendence and visions, very similar to cactus tea.


Edited by tregar (05/11/21 06:18 AM)


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27281844 - 04/25/21 08:32 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Wow, we already got amazing info from you previous thread on consuming LSH from Morning glory seeds, and now this way of avoiding MAOI altogether when consuming oral DMT. I can only say: Thank you so much!


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: tregar]
    #27282657 - 04/26/21 02:23 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

tregar said:
Yes Typewritermonky, unfortunately, I was the one who introduced HPBCD complexing to 25i-nbome to the bluelight forum back in Jan of 2012, see "the big and dandly 25i-nbome thread, page 25" after that virtually every vendor in the world of the nbome's took my idea and begin marketing them as such.

I hope this thread will make up for that adversity. I flushed mine down the toilet long, long ago. I despise that nasty compound. Most of you have probably noticed I work with natural psychedelics, I avoid all man-made psychedelics.

RoadAppleSnapple said:
Quote:

Whoa!

This is incredible. Especially for folks who are uncomfortable with an MAOI, or cannot take them.

And for people who cant rip a bong etc without coughing their brain onto the carpet for 10min. (me).

So, basic idea is that one would acquire HPBCD (basically a chemical shell) and mix it with their extracted DMT 7:1. Hold under the tongue for 15min. 90min (ish) experience ensues. No hacking up a lung; no worries about maoi issues.

Thank you for sharing.


Yes, you nailed it RoadAppleSnapple, thanks for comments. Don't forget to take from 150 to 250mg tetrahydroharmine around 30 minutes before the sublingual under the tongue HPBCD DMT, music will sound incredible, divine transcendence and visions, very similar to cactus tea.




Oh yeah I remember, back in 2011 I had 1g of 25inBOME and you were pretty much the only other person to be working with it on the web.  I ordered some HPBCD maybe early 2012 a day after you made that post, so I musta been like the second person to do it.  Interesting enough, all my experiments with 25i with myself and others turned out wonderful, I really thought there was something special to it.  My friend was going to do a study for it because it was still legal, seriously everybody loved it!

But then, one guy who was taking some from me said he "lost" the 11 hits I gave him.  I would never give anybody too much at once.. so I gave him some more.  The guy ended up taking like 9 at once (they were 150ug each) and he was fine, but I could tell something changed in him after that experiment.  I locked everything down, and then I found Nichols research showing the 5HT2 load that 25inBOME had.  I then ceased experiments, not willing to destroy anybodys receptor sites.  I destroyed the 20k hits I had left, and ended the experiment forever.
We were taking doses of like 300ug, maybe 450ug MAX.  Online, folks were selling it at 1mg a tab!!!!!  WAY too high of a dosage.  Honestly, it had nothing on mescaline/LSD etc. - but it had colorful visuals, interesting patterns, and really impressive CEV and most of the traits of a typical psychedelic without any of the headspace.

I'm very excited to try this to be honest, I love DMT, but don't take it very much - this timeframe without the MAI seems perfect for me!


--------------------
My Daily Stack: Rhodiola Rosea, True Calm, Ginkgo Biloba, Fresh Bee Pollen, Lions Mane/Reishi/Chaga/Cordyceps Complex, Kanna, Full Spectrum Multivitamin, Full Spectrum Omega Fatty Acids, Zyflamend Full Body Support, Turmeric and Black Pepper Complex, Ashwaghanda, Skullcap, Magnolia Bark, NAC, Beta-Carotene, Potassium and Magnesium.

Go ahead and PM me or ask about it, as well as microdosing LSD.


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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #27283133 - 04/26/21 10:03 PM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Thank you for this tek, Tregar!

I have a (small) bottle of HPBCD laying around from an experiment a few of us worked on to complex salvinorin-A on the Nexus a few years ago.  I'll give this a shot sometime soon :-)

Perhaps this next part should be a separate post, but maybe you or someone else on here will know this answer quickly...I have a small bag of material that I believe was included as a gift when purchasing some vine/leaves/rue seeds/etc. from an online botanical store a decade ago.  It's labeled 'Banisteriopsis Caapi AYAHUASCA "White" Vine (4) Extract 10:1 (5 gram)'.  It looks kind of like finely ground up rue.  I'm assuming it is mainly harmine and THH with some harmaline, but maybe someone here would have a better idea if this is an accurate assumption?

I tested it recently with my intention being to smoke a small bowl prior to smoking some n,n-dmt to see if it would extend and potentiate the trip.  I assumed it would be like smoking caapi leaves prior to dmt, which tends to affect the trip a bit for me.

However, smoking the caapi vine extract gave me an unexpected trip itself - I was caught completely off-guard.  Your description of a 'diamond-like' quality reminds me of how the visuals felt/looked. It was similar to a low-dose dmt trip.

So if I were to eat this prior to using the complexed dmt, how much would you suggest using?  And/or should I try this by itself w/o the dmt first?  Would you take the 10x into account and take say 30mg of this?


--------------------
Salvia Quid Enthusiast


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: HPBCD complexed DMT made bioavailable sublingually under tongue, also improves oral bioavailability for pharmahuasca & Ay... [Re: physics envy]
    #27283220 - 04/26/21 11:45 PM (1 month, 21 days ago)

:popcorn:


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