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curious Registered: 08/03/07 Posts: 13,864 |
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Quote: I haven't read through the thread yet, lots & lots to read through. But just wondering... So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH? If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT? Interesting .-OM .
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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openmind said:
Quote:Yes, no maoi is involved. Yes, the DMT is active this way, and it is active for 90 full strong minutes so long as you take THH 45 minutes before orally, as it doubles the half-life of the DMT, THH is an SRI, not an MAOI. See what Dennis Mckenna saids about this below. Final summary below: I have used this stuff sublingually (if you count the number of times I re-dosed in an evening) around 18 times in 3 month period, each time it is just as strong as an oral dose, in other words 80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength. Use 100mg of crushed vit C to make the harmalas absorb into the hot water tea if they are in freebase form. Drink all mixed together into the hot water tea at the exact same time, just as Shaman's do for the highest strength. Use a 1:1 molar ratio of DMT to HPBCD to trap all the DMT inside the tornado HPBCD cone. This means 1:7mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the plain HPBCD. (60mg DMT to 420mg HPBCD) This means 1:8mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin. (60mg DMT to 480mg 2-hydroxy PBCD) I tolerate the sting very well, no issues. But yes fog, just use it orally if you want. It is several factors stronger than DMT salts used orally. I should know I ran a dozen experiments with 70 to 120mg DMT salts long ago, and the HPBCD DMT blows it away in strength & all encompassing just like the Hawaiian psychotria leaf. The DMT salts were all only +3 mild on Shulgin scale, while 70mg of HPBCD DMT is a +5 on Shulgin scale whether used orally with harmine or by itself sublingually. But always include from 150mg to 300mg THH no matter what. Procedure: 300mg tetrahydroharmine (use from 150mg to 300mg) taken 45 minutes before orally + 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD, use 640mg if using the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin using 12 drops very hot water from a nearby coffee mug all mashed together for 2 minutes on a spoon, using the end of another spoon to mash & knead it all together. Then taken sublingually by placing bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue...hold for 15 minutes under tongue in the sublingual mucosa, then spit out any saliva (but not what's under your tongue), continue to hold any residue under tongue for 10 more minutes, never release your tongue the whole 25 minutes...press down hard with tongue the whole time to trap complex in the sublingual mucosa. 22 minutes after you begin all of this, you will go from sober to full throttle, a level 5 experience for 90 minutes, then you can re-dose by two more times every 1.5 hour in order to trip heavy all night. The sports supplement place I got the plain HPBCD went out of business once pro-hormones became illegal, just like alot of other places, they carried the 1kg containers for price of two movie tickets right next to all the pro-hormones for sale, so that you could complex them at home for sublingual use, all this was explained "how to do" by chemist & weight lifter Patrick Arnold on part 5 of this paper at beginning. This is who I learned it from. The importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH): 1. Post #12 shows how to convert harmaline to THH in 1.5 hour with 75% yield. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca. 2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine prolongs the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow. See attached paper. 3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows. 4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. 5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. 6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank for evening at the vegetals, people are consuming around 300mg of THH. 7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. 8. See post #42 (top of page 3) for 5 hour visionary journey using 300mg oral THH taken 45 minutes before, then sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT taken every 1.5 hour, mind-blowing CEV's for hours on end, music super-incredible all night long. The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys. They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind. I recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world, very interesting video, highly recommend. Here is a pic of the REAL san pedro I use everytime I go to waterpark, I make a tea out of 2 of these bad boys (2.5" thick x 12" long) and boil the tea down to 6oz, no foam, and filter thru a cotton ball in a funnel after boil down....tea made from two feels like 500mg mescaline, extremely beautiful at the waterpark...great for outdoors...trip my ass off. I use 300mg THH taken orally 45 minutes before the sublingual 80mg HPBCD DMT x redosed every 1.5 to 2 hours at home, it feels JUST LIKE 600mg plus of mescaline...beautiful beyond belief. Substitutes for the cactus for "at home use" VERY trippy, my 2 loves, oral THH + sublingual HPBCD DMT x 3 time re-dose all evening, or cactus tea for outdoors....both infinitely & profoundly beautiful. Pic1: Cacti woman with four REAL san pedro each 2.5" thick x 12" long, each one equivalent of around 250mg mescaline. pic2: teamwork of everyone here was important pic3: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl pic4: easy 2 step process & strength chart Edited by tregar (06/15/21 04:45 PM)
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still masked Registered: 08/12/99 Posts: 6,681 Loc: C A N A D A Last seen: 2 days, 8 hours |
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he is taking it with THH which has now been found to be MAOI.. so yes its just pharma aya. and as far as teh complex goes its more for fat based molecules ie hormones etc. (may be helpful for thc?) and from what i have seen and know about how it works its unlikely adds any absorbtion to water soluble dmt salts. freebase perhaps, but probably less then water soluble already is abosrbed..
here is what pops up for thh being maoi..i mean its pretty obvious if actually has been found to increase halflife of dmt "THH, like other harmala alkaloids, appears to be suitable primarily for oral use. Doses of 100 mg have already perceptive effect, the full dose is considered to be 300 mg, which is also the dose for sufficient inhibition of MAO (for use in psychedelic therapies). Sublingual use is also popular and effective, where the full dose is already 50 mg." point being "complexed" dmt is no more active then subligual dmt salts from what i can see.. if get full blown effects with complex vs same dose of pure dmt then would be of interest and why likely as he stated"dont get why reddit isnt getting excited". the whole purpose of HPBCD is to get non water soluble drugs to move through lipid water membranes.. ie nicotine caffien is water soluble goes through the buccal tissue very easy, while thc is alot harder to go through your mouth tissue(ie snorted cocaine vs thc). it has been used for getting micro milligram amounts of hormones through skin not large many mg doses.. so is it better to have a freebase dmt complexed for absorbtion vs watr soluble form? i would say water soluble would be better absorbed through buccal tissue. in otherwords a step back effects are only from weak maoi action then taking dmt for a form of pharma aya so duration is shorter and effects come a bit quicker as holding in your mouth. not taking anything away from you enjoying ur mix, just that its more a pharmaya not a smoked dmt replacement. sometimes I wish murple was still around to straighten us all out here is an article saying potetial for THH to be a neurotoxin https://link.springer.com/chapt Edited by the man (06/16/21 12:02 AM)
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still masked Registered: 08/12/99 Posts: 6,681 Loc: C A N A D A Last seen: 2 days, 8 hours |
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Quote: yes THH is teh MAOI involved making it orally active, infact he even quoted it from mckenna saying exactly that "inhibition of the MAO... makes half life 2x).. and he even uses it exactly how would want to use an MAOI taken before the doses. SRI tend to make trips weaker not stronger aswell if need more PROOF other then tragers quote of mckenna saying its an MAOI. so could be dangerous for folks who dont think they are taking an MAOI... sorry trager not to keep dumping on your parade but have to remember wiki doesnt always have things correct ![]() This is pharma aya with extra steps, nothing more. try adding acid to your dmt making it water soluble and compare with your THH maoi mix and see if it works better then the complex
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Bloomer Registered: 05/15/14 Posts: 2,866 Last seen: 4 hours, 48 seconds |
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Quote: I think you're missing some of the points. 1. He did do the same test with salted DMT and the only difference was the salt burns the mouth, hence the reason to use the complex for sublingual. 2. He did tests with THH preceding the DMT dose and also at the same time as the DMT dose, both worked. Weak argument anyway since traditional brews don't time out their caapi and DMT, it's all in one cup. 3. The article you linked about THH = neurotoxic seems unsure. In the last line of the abstract it leaves the possibility that it has a completely opposite, neuroprotective effect. 4. THH was believed to be an MAOI but more recently was demonstrated to be a weak SSRI. If they more recently switched back to believing its an MAOI, can you link to that? Here's a quote from that article that is a little eery tho: "Among βC cations, the most potent neurotoxins are N,N-dimethylated βC cations (2,9-diMe-βC+s) that are produced from sequential N-methylation of βCs at the N-2 (pyrido) and N-9 (indole) nitrogens." Interesting how N,N-Dimethyl pops up there. Maybe Aya is just DMT contributing its N,N-Dimethyl to beta carbolines to make a potent neurotoxin? Edited by Icon (06/16/21 09:53 AM)
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curious Registered: 08/03/07 Posts: 13,864 |
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Now I am just confused...I feel people are saying totally different things here
Quote: Quote: Tregar is saying this is being done with out any MAOI involved, just DMT and HPBCD held underneath the tongue. Tregar is saying that DMT is active sublingually when mixed with HPBCD, with out ever taking any MAOI at all. But then "The man" is saying that this method IS in fact being done/taken with an MAOI/THH....he says that this is basically just pharma-aya that is being taken in a sublingual manner. So what is going on here? Can someone explain what this is all about simply in just a few sentences or with just a few basic "points". What I am wondering about. -Is this a way that DMT can be taken with out any MAOI involved, or is this basically just sublingual pharma-aya? -If this is a way for DMT to be taken with out an MAOI...Then how does HPBCD allow DMT to become active in the body with out any MAOI involved? -How is MAO not metabolizing the DMT when it is taken sublingually with HPBCD? Sublingual administration skips first pass metabolism, but if I understand things correctly there is a lot of MAO in the brain and the DMT in the blood stream will eventually pass through the liver where there is a lot of MAO. I just don't see how DMT can be active with out any inhibition of MAO, even if it is taken under the tongue. Either way...interesting stuff for sure! I have always been curious about "sublingual" DMT. Just want some clarification on what is going on here, if this is being done with or with out the inhibition of MAO. -OM .
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Bloomer Registered: 05/15/14 Posts: 2,866 Last seen: 4 hours, 48 seconds |
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It's my understanding that the complexed freebase is passing straight into the blood stream, which allows it to work similarly to boofing or injecting it.
I can't find any Tregar posts about just sublingual complexed freebase though, seems all these trials are about that + THH. So now we're debating whether THH is affecting the experience because it's actually an MAOI that is extending the half life of DMT after it's cycling the blood stream, or if it's an SSRI and having a synergizing effect in some other way.
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curious Registered: 08/03/07 Posts: 13,864 |
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Quote: I see. I'm caught up and understand now lol. -OM .
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still masked Registered: 08/12/99 Posts: 6,681 Loc: C A N A D A Last seen: 2 days, 8 hours |
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"2. He did tests with THH preceding the DMT dose and also at the same time as the DMT dose, both worked. Weak argument anyway since traditional brews don't time out their caapi and DMT, it's all in one cup.
" Thats fine, but doesnt mean it isnt MAOI.. pharma aya folks take MAOI first then shrooms or dmt is what i was saying.. did he make a salt or just freebase dmt that burnt tho ![]() anyway, long and short of it is doesn't really work without the THH.. if worked as an SRI it would dampin trips would it not? long and short of it its an aya like mix... likes the effects so who am i to argue with that but should be aware your taking a weak maoi.
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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I did an experiment yesterday, taking 300mg THH 45 minutes before orally, then 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD in 12 drops near boiling hot water, mashed and kneaded for 2 minutes really well on spoon using end of another spoon to scrape, mix and mash it all together with muscles, then placed bottom of tongue on spoon, it all adhered to bottom of tongue as usual...I find if you knead it really well, in other words get all the DMT to complex inside the HPBCD cone, that the sting is not bad, don't leave any of the DMT un-complexed.
I always dry the bottom side of my tongue and top of mucosa membrane with a tissue before I do this. I kept it under tongue trapped in the sublingual mucosa by pressing down with tongue really hard, I spit out any saliva around 10 minutes later, but kept any residual amount still trapped under tongue, once any saliva builds up to where it is uncomfortable, just spit out but continue to keep tongue pressed down while you do this, try to keep any residual amount trapped under tongue for a good 20 minutes total, I find it all dissolves...I was flying so high level 5 strength for a good 1 and 1/2 hour, having the time of my life, and re-dosed every 1.5 hour, doing the same...it was an incredible experience, enjoyed movies and music all night, again this all felt like 600mg of mescaline, beautiful beyond belief. Wonderful strong open eyed and closed eye visuals for 4.5 hours, splashes of neon color again washed across the walls, movies and music so infinitely beautiful. Anytime I do this, I always take antioxidants: 300mg +R-ALA, 1000mg vitamin C, vitamin E, and drink extra water. I also take 6 to 8 caps of fish oil daily and 1 cup of 3 berry blend in my protein shake, super antioxidant power and the fish oil keeps depression far, far away...fabulous good mood with fish oil and sunlight daily.
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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In conclusion, complete summary:
HPBCD is itself very soluble in water (greater than 1000 mg/ml at room temperature). This increases with VERY HOT near boiling water. So now you see how I used in earlier trip 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD in 10 to 12 drops for sublingual or oral use. 1ml = 20 drops, 0.5ml = 10 drops, therefore each drop of water can hold 50mg HPBCD at room temp, or twice that 100mg HPBCD in each drop of very hot water from a nearby coffee mug. The 2-hydroxy PBCD will work just fine, try it exactly like this: 1. put 60mg DMT freebase on a spoon 2. cover with 480mg of the 2-hydroxy PBCD powder (1:1 molar ratio), use 420mg if using plain HPBCD. 3. add 10 drops of near boiling hot water from a coffee mug 4. stir, scrape, and mash it all together for 2 minutes...knead/mash/scrape using end of another spoon...it will look similar to 10 to 12 drop liquid complex below. 5. dry bottom of tongue and top of sublingual mucosa with a tissue 6. put bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue. 7. Hold in sublingual mucosa under tongue for 15 minutes, it will all dissolve, I've done this enough times to notice it all dissolve in 15 minutes, even 110mg complexed DMT dissolves in 15 minutes sublingually. 8. 22 minutes after you begin all this, (1/2 the time of an oral dose) you will go from baseline to full throttle, 60mg DMT will take you to a level 3.5 on Shulgin strength scale. 9. So long as you took 150mg to 300mg of tetrahydroharmine 45 minutes earlier, it will double the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it. Colors will only be neon-colorful, music will only sound bad-ass incredible, beauty enhancement will be "over the top" and actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Important teamwork takes place with THH + DMT. -------------------------------- From 5-19-21: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD sublingual report dosed x 3 times every 2 hours -------------------------------- Full Journey trip report: Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary like tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes... ...you feel a mild to moderate sting for around 15 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal. Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa. Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD (use 480mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) with 2 minutes stirring, mashing & kneading all of it hard (to force the DMT into the tornado like HPBCD cone) using your muscles on a spoon with 10 to 12 drops very hot water, put bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere...and hold for 15 minutes in the sublingual mucosa, begins to work in 22 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva. As I gently spit out the saliva, I will keep any tiny residual amount still trapped or pressed down under tongue for another 5 minutes usually, but I have noticed most of the time, it all dissolves within 15 minutes. ...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally any time I do this using the sublingual DMT. I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg. The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 1.5 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven. ![]() ...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours. I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from. All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers." ...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away. I love the "oral 250 to 300mg THH + sublingual 420mg HPBCD complexed to 60mg DMT administration" as there is a complete lack of "queasiness feeling during the journey", perhaps because there is no harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines...I don't know the answer for sure, but I like it. Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 1.5 hour I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life. ![]() -------------------------------- I have found a way to make this stuff portable & even storable in a freezer or elsewhere, simply sucking up the 0.5ml off the spoon into a 3ml plastic syringe. The syringe's liquid complex becomes re-flowable again after sitting at room temp for a short while, in case it has been pulled from freezer storage. Pic1: 3ml syringe and puppy dog sunglasses storage case for syringes Pic2: Woman sitting on the Eleusis ruins of ancient Greece where the sacred Kykeon entheogenic beverage was drank in ritual for nearly 2,000 years. In its heyday, up to 3,000 initiates could be received at a time. pic3: Spirit animals watch on & guide the process as 2-step HPBCD DMT for sublingual use with oral THH Ayahuasca is prepared with meditation, prayer & intentions. Table showing subjective DMT strength from 20 to 80mg. See page 4 post #27330099, how this was discovered with the help of Ayahuasca, Queen of the forest. Asante said: Quote: Edited by tregar (06/27/21 08:19 AM)
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Bloomer Registered: 05/15/14 Posts: 2,866 Last seen: 4 hours, 48 seconds |
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Quote: So sublingual complexed DMT works on its own then right? The THH just makes it last longer and more Aya feeling? Do you only recommend THH and not a combination of harmine and THH?
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Icon said:
Quote:Yes, the HPBCD complexed DMT works all by itself, nothing else needed, but I highly recommend taking 150 to 300mg THH 45 minutes earlier orally before this is all begun...to experience a trip like high dose cactus tea or true Ayahuasca, so bad ass! I've done this over 23 times in 3 months (if you count the times I re-dose every 1.5 hour during the evening, usually twice re-dose the HPBCD DMT.) pic: 3ml syringe with 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD (use 640mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) in 12 drops near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug prepared on a spoon using the end of another spoon to mix, mash and knead/scrape it all together hard using muscles for 2 minutes, then every last bit of it sucked up easily by syringe (none left behind), simply shoot liquid under tongue and hold for 15 minutes in sublingual mucosa when ready to use (it all dissolves in 15 minutes)...blast off 22 minutes after this is all begun (1/2 the time of an oral dose). The syringes are portable, freezable, I prepare three of these syringes for use during the night, so I can take one sublingually every 1.5 hour, to have a long 4.5 hour strong (+5 Shulgin level strength) journey with long afterglow. Of course, I always take 300mg THH 45 minutes earlier. The syringes come in packs of 100 for dirt cheap. I store the pre-loaded syringes in a hard sunglasses case. The syringe's liquid complex becomes re-flowable again after sitting at room temp for a short while, in case it has been pulled from freezer storage. Edited by tregar (06/27/21 08:19 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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In conclusion, the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH):
1. Part 10 of this paper: shows how to convert harmaline to THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca. 2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow. 3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows. 4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. LSD, mescaline, shrooms all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin. 5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so. 6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank for evening at the vegetals, people are consuming around 300mg of THH. 7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT. professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression): Quote: 300mg oral THH + sublingual 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT is like a "super-mescaline experience" in my experience. Or orally all drank together at same time mixed into a hot water tea: 300mg THH + 200mg harmine + 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT. Use 100mg crushed vitamin C to help the harmalas absorb into the hot water tea should they be in freebase form. It all feels identical to around 600mg of mescaline in my experience. She is very trippy....and this is a great thing in my experience, as bridgesii has become quite expensive, and more rare, while this is dirt cheap. I've taken Ayahuasca x 75 times and cactus tea over 200 times, the THH + HPBCD DMT is so bad ass, just like high dose cactus tea, completely replaces it just fine, my two loves. For example, you can re-dose sublingual HPBCD DMT x every 1.5 hour x twice more at night, for 3 times dose for a 4.5 hour experience with long afterglow, gives long strong trip just like with cactus. 300mg oral THH + sublingual 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT = feels like 600mg super mescaline ![]() pic1: 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before + 80mg sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT with the 80mg sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dosed every 1.5 hour for 4.5 hour total experience with super-long aftgerglow: feels identical to me to around 600mg of mescaline or 1.5 of these 12" long fat bridgesii made into a tea. Pic also shows fresh from right off the garden vine frozen morning glory seeds to preserve high activity, DL tartaric acid, high in acetaldehyde sherry wine, miracle grow, mason jars with funnels stuffed with cotton balls for filtration, see part 8 of paper on morning glory seeds for more info. pic2: now my garden only has these smaller bridgesii left for now, not as thick. Very happy to have discovered the oral THH + strong HPBCD DMT experience as not only have I run out of Hawaiian psychotria (which I used to use for all my past 75 Ayahuasca experiences)...as there is no more on the market for past 3 years, it has all been diverted to the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America....but my garden no longer has any long thick bridgesii left either (top pic), only these smaller bridgesii seen in middle. I save my rare catus for outdoor trips to the waterpark only...and use oral 300mg THH + 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT indoors all the time now, replaces the cactus just fine, extremely similar. ![]() Edited by tregar (06/29/21 08:57 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Part 11: How to easily extract 1.5g DMT from 150g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask
For the HPBCD DMT experiments, extracted DMT as described below: 1) A procedure (based on Noman's or Norman's tek) which yields 1.5g DMT from 150 gram powdered bark: all 4 pulls are using 90ml naptha on 150g powdered bark mixed into 1.8 liter lye water (1.5 x 150g bark = use 225g lye dissolved into the 1.8 liter 150 degree hot water.) Just heat up 1.8 liter of water in a big pyrex pot on stove and use thermometer to pull if off when it reads 150 degree F. Slowly sprinkle lye using safety goggles and long chemical resistant gloves that go up each arm, and stand back as far as possible...(the hot water will fizz but not boil up) into your pyrex pot of hot water. After each sprinkle, stir the water a bit with a super long metal spoon. It will "growl" a bit as it fizzes, but this way it dissolves very fast into already hot water. Pour this lye water into your 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask using a large automotive funnel. Add 150 grams of finely powdered bark, and use a long chopstick or similar to mix it all together. Use (.6 x 150g bark = 90ml naptha pull for each of the 4 pulls). An erlenmeyer flask makes it easy to do pulls using a long glass pipette, as the top of flask is tapered, so all the naptha collects at the top for easy pull. Use an electronic thermometer to check the temp of the Lye water bark mix, when the lye water cools down from 150 degree F to around 120 degree F, then it's time to add your 90ml of naptha, make sure your 2L flask is sitting on a mitten or similar...this makes it easy to swirl your flask to mix the contents, make sure you are using the proper rubber stopper number 9.5 to seal the top of your flask once you turn it upside down then right side up to mix the contents as well. Prefer to do a combination of swirling and a couple of upside down then right side up turns of the 2L flask, then once right side up, let the rubber stopper out, and let the stopper just barely sit in the flask (not tight), so gasses can exit. After 1/2 hour, all the 90ml of naptha will migrate & collect at the top of the tapered erlenmeyer flask...use your long glass pipette to collect the naptha, that's it! very easy, no mess, and the tapered erlenmeyer flask and glass pipette with round rubber plunger at the end makes it easy to collect the naptha at the top without collecting any lye water by accident. This is the way a chemist can do it. I highly suggest using these 5.5 x 7.5 inch pyrex dishes w/covers found at *almart, simply pour each of your 90ml naptha pulls into each of 4 dishes, stack them in the freezer, 8 hours later, pour off naptha thru a coffee filter secured to a wide one-half pint jar to collect any xtals floating in the ice cold naptha, and simply scrape up all the xtals from your square pyrex once it is bone dry. Super easy instructions in post #50 for 1.5g DMT from 150g bark all in one day using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask and long glass pipette with rubber stopper on end for the pulls. 1st pull = 1200mg, 2nd pull = 200mg, 3rd pull = 100mg, 4rth pull = 50mg, done this x 3 times, each time yield always at or better than 1.5g. Most of the crystals are all stuck to the bottom of shallow dish each time, very nice!
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Pic of bridgesii cacti tea, will either filter the boiled down tea thru a cotton ball stuffed into a funnel sitting in a mason jar to get out any particles which are irritating to the stomach and intestines and cause nausea, or let it sit in fridge for a few days, and all irritating tiny particles will collect at bottom, then just decant and drink the tea above the tiny bottom layer of particles which stick to bottom of jar.
When taken before heading out to waterpark, the waterpark and outdoor nature look like an outdoor fantasy fairy tale land full of neon-colorful bikinis. Been doing this for over 6 years, water spirit here. 300mg of oral THH taken 45 minutes before then using sublingual 80mg HPBCD DMT feels identical to 600mg of mescaline to me, like a "super-mescaline". This is what I use at home now, and save the precious rare cactus for outdoors only. Combo: Whenever I drink a tea made out of one 12" long x 2.5" to 3.0" wide san pedro around 45 minutes after drinking the bridgesii tea, feels like around 600mg of mescaline, super-potent combo. Never drink bridgesii and san pedro at the same time, always stagger at least 45 minutes apart, or else the trace maoi's in bridgesii intenstify the trace maoi's in san pedro and cause unpleasant symptoms, same with THH , when using it to intensify or make bridgesii tea feel way more potent than it really is, always take the THH around 45 minutes or longer AFTER the tea is drank. You don't want the trace maoi's in bridgesii interacting with the SRI which is THH at the same time. 250mg THH can make 450mg mescaline feel like 600mg as well, but only when staggered as mentioned. Pic1: 1/2 pint jar of bridgesii tea, each jar approximately 450mg mescaline (two of the smaller bridgesii from my garden seen above). If you look closely, you can see the tiny layer of particles stuck to bottom, the tea causes zero nausea when decanting and drinking only the tea above the particles stuck to bottom. Have never purged in over 200 cacti tea doses over period of many, many years, as I always either filter thru a cotton ball or use fridge decantation or combo of both. Pic2: The Late Great DM Turner on mescaline, totally agree when everything he saids...this is why I love the oral 300mg THH + sublingual 80mg HPBCD DMT so much, it's identical. Edited by tregar (07/02/21 07:04 AM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Yield from 170g finely powdered bark, followed instructions on post above #27367631 using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask with 9.5 number stopper.
1st pull far left, dish + coffee filter = 1668mg 2nd pull in middle, dish + coffee filter = 517mg 3rd pull to far right = 155mg 4rth pull close to nothing 3 pulls get majority of it all (95%) total = 2340mg 1) For 170g bark, use 1.9 Liter 150 degree water, when water, lye and bark all dissolved, liquid will all come up exactly to the 2,000 ml line on the flask. 2) 170g bark x 1.5 = use 255 grams lye 3) use 3 x 90ml naptha pulls, each 90ml naptha addition will rise 1.5" or so above 2L line on flask for easy collection using a long glass pipette. 4) allow 30 minutes for each naptha pull to rise to top for collection, this will ensure it all rises. Do pulls one after another, around 1.5 hour beginning to end, then you are done with 3 pulls. The pre-heated water with mixed lye keeps liquid/naptha warm...I also keep a 60 watt lamp bulb with reflector close or pointed to back of flask the entire time, so each of my 3 pulls are around 125 degree F when I measured with electronic thermometer. Highly suggest using these 5.5 x 7.5 inch pyrex dishes w/covers found at *almart, simply pour each of your 90ml naptha pulls into each of 4 dishes, stack them in the freezer, 8 hours later, pour off naptha thru a coffee filter secured to a wide one-half pint jar to collect any xtals floating in the ice cold naptha (seen above attached with clothespins to a 1/2 pint wide jar), and simply scrape up all the xtals from your square pyrex once it is bone dry. It's very important to let your dishes sit undisturbed for a long while, these dishes sat in freezer for 12 hours during day (11am till 11pm), then overnight for 8 hours. This is the stuff used in all the HPBCD complexed DMT experiments with 250 to 300mg oral THH taken 45 minutes earlier. The HPBCD DMT can be used sublingually (all dissolves in 15 minutes) with 90 minutes of strong activity, and re-dosed every 1.5 hour x 2 more times at night...or dissolved into a 2oz hot water tea with 200mg harmine and 250 to 300mg THH already dissolved into it, use 100mg or so of crushed vitamin C to help harmalas dissolve should they be in freebase form, either way, sublingually or orally, the HPBCD DMT is exact same strength, the oral HPBCD DMT is several factors stronger than DMT salts in my experience, just like using actual 30 to 40g Hawaiian psychotria. The 250mg to 300mg THH taken orally 45 minutes before with the 80mg HPBCD DMT used sublingually (or orally dissolved with harmine + THH hot water tea all drank at exact same time) simulates 600mg of "super mescaline" in my experience, but dirt cheap compared to the expensive and rare cactus, great for use indoors, saving precious cactus for outdoors only. Remember, colors will only be neon-colorful, music will only sound bad-ass incredible, beauty enhancement will be "over the top" and actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Important teamwork takes place with THH + DMT. THH also doubles the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full 90 minutes out of each HPBCD DMT dose. Edited by tregar (07/04/21 12:30 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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To answer the question about the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin compared to plain HPBCD:
Update: 7/8/2021: Last night, after not having taken anything for 7 days, took oral 300mg THH 45 minutes earlier, then sublingual (held under tongue 15 minutes) 90mg DMT complexed to 720mg of the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin (use 630mg if using plain HPBCD from China), phenomenal strength, felt like 700mg of mescaline, one of the most intense and enjoyable visionary experiences of my life, neon colors super abundant with open eyes, visuals flying past me at amazing speeds, visuals so strong, whether with closed or open eyes, geometrics and colored sparkles filled every inch of space, it looked like neon colors were melting in mid-air and reforming into infinite varities of colors. The trip while being super strong, was entirely relaxing and calm, just like with high dose cactus. I am blown away. Euphoria and beauty enhancement way over the top, music entirely alien sounding and every sound as if heard for the first time...women on the movies playing looked like super-beautiful cartoon caricatures of themselves...so very impressed. So yes, in conclusion, the 2-hydroxy works just as well as the plain HPBCD. I re-dosed every hour and half x 2 more times during night, enjoyed movies to the max...the 90mg HPBCD DMT was incredibly trippy beyond belief! Each dose fully dissolved under tongue at the 15 minute point, at 22 minute point went to full throttle, and stayed there good 1.5 hour each dose. So very glad I took it last night, afterglow so nice.
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Stranger Registered: 08/30/04 Posts: 1,047 Last seen: 22 hours, 33 minutes |
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Answers to questions...
1. This THH is stuff I make myself, been making it since 2010, the days when professor8 started to make it, long time chemist. It is extremely pure, I have no clue about the stuff from liftmode, make mine for around 25 cents per 300mg dose, instructions on post #12. 2. The dmt is yellow/orangish colored xtals, smells strongly like plastic, keep frozen at all times in a small tiny container with screw cap to preserve activity. I even shoot wine preservation gas canister (inert mixture of argon, etc.) from *mazon into the container with my finger over top to replace the oxygen in the container before tightening screw cap top back on, before putting away in freezer. I would only use the dry stuff, if it has any water or grain alcohol in it, it simply does not work well at all. 3. How I do it: add 90mg freebase orange/yellow DMT to a spoon, add (90 x 7 = 630mg of HPBCD powder on top, use 90 x 8 =720 mg if it's the 2-hydroxy PBCD), then add 10 drops of boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug (water pre-microwaved) on top it all. I prefer to use 10 drops whenever possible instead of 12 drops, as it's extremely easy to all keep under tongue, with less saliva production, 12 drops is fine if using 110mg of so of complexed DMT. I stir and scrape it back and forth using muscles on spoon for 2 minutes, using the end of another spoon to scrape/knead/mix it all together with force...it forms a sticky gel looking complex, this is still flowable into a 3ml syringe for storage in freezer if you want to store long term. I prefer to assemble 3 of these 0.5ml full (10 drops of complex) syringes ahead of time, so they are all ready to go for the evening, just shooting a single syringe's complex under tongue every 1.5 hour. These 3ml syringes are dirt cheap for a pack of 100. I then place bottom of tongue onto spoon, or shoot a single syringe's content under tongue...it all will adhere, hold under tongue for 15 minutes, it all dissolves, yes there is a sting...but I actually enjoy it, and it's so worth it for the super strong beautiful results with zero nausea/dizziness...around 22 minutes since starting all this, go to full throttle in terms of strength, which is held for around 1.5 hour, which is point I usually re-dose. Don't forget I always take from 250mg to 300mg THH around 45 minutes earlier..I recommend using at least 150mg minimum. I prefer this method over taking the HPBCD DMT orally with 200mg harmine, as the harmine gives me some slight dizziness and heavyness...with the sublingual route, there is ZERO nausea and dizziness, and it feels more like mescaline as compared to Ayahuasca, which has the harmine in it. For a slight harmine feel, you could always take 20 to 30mg of harmine by itself sublingually (no hpbcd needed) under tongue around 1/2 hour before using the sublingual HPBCD DMT for more of an Ayahuasca feel if that's what you prefer. 4. I've used this stuff sublingually for over 3 months now, around 30 times total if you count the number of times I've re-dosed in an evening (usually re-dose x 2 more times), as I prefer a long 4.5 hour trip with super-long afterglow, similar to a long cactus tea journey. I am completely serious when I say 300mg THH orally + 90mg complexed DMT feels identical to 700mg of mescaline. I've taken up to 850mg purified mescaline in the past (upper limit). It is beautiful beyond belief, and super-dirt cheap. Now a days, you need three 12" long x 2.5" wide PC san pedro just to get a mild 300 to 350mg mescaline trip that barely gets you off the ground, can cost quite a bit just for a mild dose, as bridgesii is super-rare these days. This completely replaces the high dose cactus tea. This feels like 18" long of 2.5" wide thick bridgesii, completely mind-blowing. But I will add for outdoor use, the PC San Pedro (3 of the 12" long x 2.5" wide) brewed into a tea (around 300 to 350mg mescaline) taken 1st, then 1 hour later, take 250mg of THH, will make the San Pedro feel just like 300mg + 200mg mescaline = a feel identical to 500mg of mescaline, I've done this same method countless times before being driven to waterpark, where I trip my ass off all morning and early afternoon long...like an outdoor fantasy fairtale land full of neon colorful bikinis. It's way strong but completely relaxing, even calmer then mushrooms. I can hold normal conversations and have complete control of my faculties while tripping my brains out outdoors.
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Stranger Registered: 03/11/15 Posts: 39 Last seen: 2 months, 17 days |
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Hello and thank you. I tried in another thread but thought I might catch you here. Have you ever vaporized DMT and/or had a breakthrough experience? I'm wondering what the difference in trip experience is. I know harmalas taken prior to vaporized DMT is much different than just smoking DMT. Just wonder how this sublingual complex with the THH compares...from what I gather from the posts, this sublingual complex is more gentle and mescaline like. Perhaps there's benefits to both. Only one way to know for sure!
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