tregar said:

....80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength.

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I haven't read through the thread yet, lots & lots to read through.

But just wondering...

So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH?

If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT?

Interesting .




-OM

.

Quote:

So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH?

If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT?

---

Yes, no maoi is involved. Yes, the DMT is active this way, and it is active for 90 full strong minutes so long as you take THH 45 minutes before orally, as it doubles the half-life of the DMT, THH is an SRI, not an MAOI. See what Dennis Mckenna saids about this below.

Final summary below:

I have used this stuff sublingually (if you count the number of times I re-dosed in an evening) around 18 times in 3 month period, each time it is just as strong as an oral dose, in other words 80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength. Use 100mg of crushed vit C to make the harmalas absorb into the hot water tea if they are in freebase form. Drink all mixed together into the hot water tea at the exact same time, just as Shaman's do for the highest strength.

Use a 1:1 molar ratio of DMT to HPBCD to trap all the DMT inside the tornado HPBCD cone.
This means 1:7mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the plain HPBCD. (60mg DMT to 420mg HPBCD)
This means 1:8mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin. (60mg DMT to 480mg 2-hydroxy PBCD)

I tolerate the sting very well, no issues. But yes fog, just use it orally if you want. It is several factors stronger than DMT salts used orally. I should know I ran a dozen experiments with 70 to 120mg DMT salts long ago, and the HPBCD DMT blows it away in strength & all encompassing just like the Hawaiian psychotria leaf. The DMT salts were all only +3 mild on Shulgin scale, while 70mg of HPBCD DMT is a +5 on Shulgin scale whether used orally with harmine or by itself sublingually. But always include from 150mg to 300mg THH no matter what.

Procedure: 300mg tetrahydroharmine (use from 150mg to 300mg) taken 45 minutes before orally + 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD, use 640mg if using the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin using 12 drops very hot water from a nearby coffee mug all mashed together for 2 minutes on a spoon, using the end of another spoon to mash & knead it all together.

Then taken sublingually by placing bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue...hold for 15 minutes under tongue in the sublingual mucosa, then spit out any saliva (but not what's under your tongue), continue to hold any residue under tongue for 10 more minutes, never release your tongue the whole 25 minutes...press down hard with tongue the whole time to trap complex in the sublingual mucosa. 22 minutes after you begin all of this, you will go from sober to full throttle, a level 5 experience for 90 minutes, then you can re-dose by two more times every 1.5 hour in order to trip heavy all night.

The sports supplement place I got the plain HPBCD went out of business once pro-hormones became illegal, just like alot of other places, they carried the 1kg containers for price of two movie tickets right next to all the pro-hormones for sale, so that you could complex them at home for sublingual use, all this was explained "how to do" by chemist & weight lifter Patrick Arnold on part 5 of this paper at beginning. This is who I learned it from.

The importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH):

1. Post #12 shows how to convert harmaline to THH in 1.5 hour with 75% yield. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca.

2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine prolongs the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow. See attached paper.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank for evening at the vegetals, people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.

8. See post #42 (top of page 3) for 5 hour visionary journey using 300mg oral THH taken 45 minutes before, then sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT taken every 1.5 hour, mind-blowing CEV's for hours on end, music super-incredible all night long.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.

They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind.

I recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world, very interesting video, highly recommend.

Here is a pic of the REAL san pedro I use everytime I go to waterpark, I make a tea out of 2 of these bad boys (2.5" thick x 12" long) and boil the tea down to 6oz, no foam, and filter thru a cotton ball in a funnel after boil down....tea made from two feels like 500mg mescaline, extremely beautiful at the waterpark...great for outdoors...trip my ass off. I use 300mg THH taken orally 45 minutes before the sublingual 80mg HPBCD DMT x redosed every 1.5 to 2 hours at home, it feels JUST LIKE 600mg plus of mescaline...beautiful beyond belief. Substitutes for the cactus for "at home use" VERY trippy, my 2 loves, oral THH + sublingual HPBCD DMT x 3 time re-dose all evening, or cactus tea for outdoors....both infinitely & profoundly beautiful.

Pic1: Cacti woman with four REAL san pedro each 2.5" thick x 12" long, each one equivalent of around 250mg mescaline.

pic2: teamwork of everyone here was important

pic3: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl

pic4: easy 2 step process & strength chart

openmind said:

tregar said:

....80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength.

---

I haven't read through the thread yet, lots & lots to read through.

But just wondering...

So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH?

If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT?

Interesting .




-OM

.

---

yes THH is teh MAOI involved making it orally active, infact he even quoted it from mckenna saying exactly that "inhibition of the MAO... makes half life 2x).. and he even uses it exactly how would want to use an MAOI taken before the doses. SRI tend to make trips weaker not stronger aswell if need more PROOF other then tragers quote of mckenna saying its an MAOI.

so could be dangerous for folks who dont think they are taking an MAOI... sorry trager not to keep dumping on your parade but have to remember wiki doesnt always have things correct

This is pharma aya with extra steps, nothing more. try adding acid to your dmt making it water soluble and compare with your THH maoi mix and see if it works better then the complex

the man said:

openmind said:

tregar said:

....80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength.

---

I haven't read through the thread yet, lots & lots to read through.

But just wondering...

So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH?

If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT?

Interesting .




-OM

.

---

yes THH is teh MAOI involved making it orally active, infact he even quoted it from mckenna saying exactly that "inhibition of the MAO... makes half life 2x).. and he even uses it exactly how would want to use an MAOI taken before the doses. SRI tend to make trips weaker not stronger aswell if need more PROOF other then tragers quote of mckenna saying its an MAOI.

so could be dangerous for folks who dont think they are taking an MAOI... sorry trager not to keep dumping on your parade but have to remember wiki doesnt always have things correct

This is pharma aya with extra steps, nothing more. try adding acid to your dmt making it water soluble and compare with your THH maoi mix and see if it works better then the complex

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tregar said:

openmind said:So you are taking DMT mixed with the HPBCD sublingually and with out any MAOI involved at all, and the DMT is active that way? And it is just as active that way as it is when taken with harmine & THH?

If so, what is going on that is preventing MAO from metabolizing the DMT?

---

Yes, no maoi is involved. Yes, the DMT is active this way

---

Icon said:

It's my understanding that the complexed freebase is passing straight into the blood stream, which allows it to work similarly to boofing or injecting it.

I can't find any Tregar posts about just sublingual complexed freebase though, seems all these trials are about that + THH. So now we're debating whether THH is affecting the experience because it's actually an MAOI that is extending the half life of DMT after it's cycling the blood stream, or if it's an SSRI and having a synergizing effect in some other way.

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In conclusion, complete summary:

HPBCD is itself very soluble in water (greater than 1000 mg/ml at room temperature). This increases with VERY HOT near boiling water. So now you see how I used in earlier trip 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD in 10 to 12 drops for sublingual or oral use. 1ml = 20 drops, 0.5ml = 10 drops, therefore each drop of water can hold 50mg HPBCD at room temp, or twice that 100mg HPBCD in each drop of very hot water from a nearby coffee mug.

The 2-hydroxy PBCD will work just fine, try it exactly like this:

1. put 60mg DMT freebase on a spoon
2. cover with 480mg of the 2-hydroxy PBCD powder (1:1 molar ratio), use 420mg if using plain HPBCD.
3. add 10 drops of near boiling hot water from a coffee mug
4. stir, scrape, and mash it all together for 2 minutes...knead/mash/scrape using end of another spoon...it will look similar to 10 to 12 drop liquid complex below.
5. dry bottom of tongue and top of sublingual mucosa with a tissue
6. put bottom side of tongue onto spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue.
7. Hold in sublingual mucosa under tongue for 15 minutes, it will all dissolve, I've done this enough times to notice it all dissolve in 15 minutes, even 110mg complexed DMT dissolves in 15 minutes sublingually.
8. 22 minutes after you begin all this, (1/2 the time of an oral dose) you will go from baseline to full throttle, 60mg DMT will take you to a level 3.5 on Shulgin strength scale.
9. So long as you took 150mg to 300mg of tetrahydroharmine 45 minutes earlier, it will double the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it.

Colors will only be neon-colorful, music will only sound bad-ass incredible, beauty enhancement will be "over the top" and actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Important teamwork takes place with THH + DMT.
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From 5-19-21: 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD sublingual report dosed x 3 times every 2 hours
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Full Journey trip report:

Keep in mind using DMT salts sublingually does not work. The HPBCD complexed DMT works extremely well, the outer water soluble sugary like tasting HPBCD keeps the freebase DMT trapped inside it's non-polar cone, so as the complex sits under the tongue for 15 minutes...

...you feel a mild to moderate sting for around 15 minutes as the HPBCD releases the DMT directly into the bloodstream from the mucosa membrane under the tongue (only 100 microns thick) as the freebase, only as the freebase will it reach from the bloodstream to the brain with maximum effects. I don't have all the answers, I only know it works extremely well. The tongue is completely fine after, and it's as if nothing happened the next day, 100% no scarring or burning, totally normal.

Be sure to press down with tongue the whole time to trap the sticky complex in the sublingual mucosa.

Give this a try...follow 2 step instructions, 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD (use 480mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) with 2 minutes stirring, mashing & kneading all of it hard (to force the DMT into the tornado like HPBCD cone) using your muscles on a spoon with 10 to 12 drops very hot water, put bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere...and hold for 15 minutes in the sublingual mucosa, begins to work in 22 minutes...at the end of the 15 minutes, I spit out any saliva that's collected in mouth into a cup instead of swallowing, for me this has been less than 1/4oz or around less than 15ml saliva. As I gently spit out the saliva, I will keep any tiny residual amount still trapped or pressed down under tongue for another 5 minutes usually, but I have noticed most of the time, it all dissolves within 15 minutes.

...and is VERY STRONG...I experienced 90 minutes of very strong effects, pupil dilation maxed out, strong tryptamine body buzz high frequency, heavy CEV imagery, open eyed beauty profound, music sounds incredible...feels identical to if I had taken 60mg DMT complexed to HPBCD orally with 200mg harmine with 300mg THH, of course I always take 300mg THH orally any time I do this using the sublingual DMT.

I recommend not using more than 250mg of THH if it is your first time. 250mg of THH causes zero dizziness and ZERO nausea, but 300mg will cause a tiny bit of dizziness for a short time if you are not used to it. I am used to it, so I get no dizziness at 300mg.

The effects were so INCREDIBLE, I RE-DOSED 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD x two more times the same night, every 1.5 hours...it was the bomb...I was in 7th heaven.

...never before have I had such insane visuals all night long...all the way till 5am in the morning I was seeing closed eye visions of slow and high speed movies...I saw brightly colored serpents, dungeons I traveled thru, many Mesoamerican pyramids, women of incredible beauty, Japanese landscapes, dancing geometrics, many different animals on a rotating globe, walking on the planet-like globe as it spun, hundreds of visions like slow and high-speed movies over the course of many hours.

I saw the interiors of many magnificent homes, exposed like a camera flash went off, then off to the next home interior, bizarre alien looking creatures, I saw ancient ruins but they were seen as they were before they fell apart. All sorts of architectural wonders appeared that I could not make out exactly what time period they were from.

All the visions were enchanting & manifested incredible beauty. The multi-colored beautiful serpents kept appearing several times in different forms, as if they have some prominence to do with it all, two of them had shining skin covered in gold scales and intertwined like DNA, reminds me of the Aztec quetzalcoatl myth, the "serpent of precious feathers."

...all of these visions were brightly colored due to the DMT and THH combo all night long..it was one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences of my life...and I've taken Ayahuasca x 70 times, cactus 200 times, etc...I have never had over 5 hours of non-stop CEV visions anything close to what I saw the other night...I was blown away, and will be thinking about this for a very long time...this sublingual DMT along with 300mg THH taken orally 1 hour before is my absolute favorite...there is no nausea...I wore headphones and listened to music the whole time, as the music sounded just like if I had taken a very strong cactus tea...out of this world good...I had non-stop closed eye visions all night long, insane visions...totally blown away.

I love the "oral 250 to 300mg THH + sublingual 420mg HPBCD complexed to 60mg DMT administration" as there is a complete lack of "queasiness feeling during the journey", perhaps because there is no harmine/DMT going thru the stomach & intestines...I don't know the answer for sure, but I like it.

Remember, I took 300mg of THH once early on, then every 1.5 hour I took 60mg of DMT complexed to 420mg of HPBCD sticky liquid under my tongue for 15 minutes held...so I took it x 3 times...one of the most visionary entheogenic experiences of my life.
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I have found a way to make this stuff portable & even storable in a freezer or elsewhere, simply sucking up the 0.5ml off the spoon into a 3ml plastic syringe. The syringe's liquid complex becomes re-flowable again after sitting at room temp for a short while, in case it has been pulled from freezer storage.

Pic1: 3ml syringe and puppy dog sunglasses storage case for syringes

Pic2: Woman sitting on the Eleusis ruins of ancient Greece where the sacred Kykeon entheogenic beverage was drank in ritual for nearly 2,000 years. In its heyday, up to 3,000 initiates could be received at a time.

pic3: Spirit animals watch on & guide the process as 2-step HPBCD DMT for sublingual use with oral THH Ayahuasca is prepared with meditation, prayer & intentions. Table showing subjective DMT strength from 20 to 80mg.

See page 4 post #27330099, how this was discovered with the help of Ayahuasca, Queen of the forest.







Asante said:

Quote:

Oh guys, in the Extra Special Stores you pay extra special prices.

The HPBCD is 50 bucks a kilo in China.

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tregar said:

9. So long as you took 150mg to 300mg of tetrahydroharmine 45 minutes earlier, it will double the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it.

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Quote:

So sublingual complexed DMT works on its own then right? The THH just makes it last longer and more Aya feeling?

Do you only recommend THH and not a combination of harmine and THH?

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Yes, the HPBCD complexed DMT works all by itself, nothing else needed, but I highly recommend taking 150 to 300mg THH 45 minutes earlier orally before this is all begun...to experience a trip like high dose cactus tea or true Ayahuasca, so bad ass! I've done this over 23 times in 3 months (if you count the times I re-dose every 1.5 hour during the evening, usually twice re-dose the HPBCD DMT.)

pic: 3ml syringe with 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD (use 640mg if using the 2-hydroxy PBCD) in 12 drops near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug prepared on a spoon using the end of another spoon to mix, mash and knead/scrape it all together hard using muscles for 2 minutes, then every last bit of it sucked up easily by syringe (none left behind), simply shoot liquid under tongue and hold for 15 minutes in sublingual mucosa when ready to use (it all dissolves in 15 minutes)...blast off 22 minutes after this is all begun (1/2 the time of an oral dose).

The syringes are portable, freezable, I prepare three of these syringes for use during the night, so I can take one sublingually every 1.5 hour, to have a long 4.5 hour strong (+5 Shulgin level strength) journey with long afterglow. Of course, I always take 300mg THH 45 minutes earlier. The syringes come in packs of 100 for dirt cheap. I store the pre-loaded syringes in a hard sunglasses case.

The syringe's liquid complex becomes re-flowable again after sitting at room temp for a short while, in case it has been pulled from freezer storage.

Quote:

Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.

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300mg oral THH + sublingual 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT is like a "super-mescaline experience" in my experience. Or orally all drank together at same time mixed into a hot water tea: 300mg THH + 200mg harmine + 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT. Use 100mg crushed vitamin C to help the harmalas absorb into the hot water tea should they be in freebase form.

It all feels identical to around 600mg of mescaline in my experience. She is very trippy....and this is a great thing in my experience, as bridgesii has become quite expensive, and more rare, while this is dirt cheap. I've taken Ayahuasca x 75 times and cactus tea over 200 times, the THH + HPBCD DMT is so bad ass, just like high dose cactus tea, completely replaces it just fine, my two loves. For example, you can re-dose sublingual HPBCD DMT x every 1.5 hour x twice more at night, for 3 times dose for a 4.5 hour experience with long afterglow, gives long strong trip just like with cactus.

300mg oral THH + sublingual 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT = feels like 600mg super mescaline

pic1: 300mg THH orally 45 minutes before + 80mg sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT with the 80mg sublingual HPBCD DMT re-dosed every 1.5 hour for 4.5 hour total experience with super-long aftgerglow: feels identical to me to around 600mg of mescaline or 1.5 of these 12" long fat bridgesii made into a tea. Pic also shows fresh from right off the garden vine frozen morning glory seeds to preserve high activity, DL tartaric acid, high in acetaldehyde sherry wine, miracle grow, mason jars with funnels stuffed with cotton balls for filtration, see part 8 of paper on morning glory seeds for more info.

pic2: now my garden only has these smaller bridgesii left for now, not as thick.

Very happy to have discovered the oral THH + strong HPBCD DMT experience as not only have I run out of Hawaiian psychotria (which I used to use for all my past 75 Ayahuasca experiences)...as there is no more on the market for past 3 years, it has all been diverted to the numerous Ayahuasca centers in South America....but my garden no longer has any long thick bridgesii left either (top pic), only these smaller bridgesii seen in middle. I save my rare catus for outdoor trips to the waterpark only...and use oral 300mg THH + 80mg HPBCD complexed DMT indoors all the time now, replaces the cactus just fine, extremely similar.