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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26259482 -

Which heritage?  Confederate traitor heritage?  Slave owning heritage?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26259504 -

ballsalsa said:
Which heritage?  Confederate traitor heritage?  Slave owning heritage?



I already described the people I am referring to:

Quote:
Metoo said:I mean normal people who work, pay taxes and would prefer to keep the Robert Lee statue as a reminder of the painful past or just an architectural ornament? People you would otherwise have a beer with but who happen to have a different opinion on the balance between past events and current sensitivities?



Do you think that there were no people fitting this bio among those present at the march organised to protest the removal of the Confederate statues? If so, what gives you confidence in your judgement, absent full background checks on all those present?

You must have thought about it before forming your opinion on the evnets so should not be too hard to answer?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26259510 -

:wonka: how do you know which “fine people” he’s talking about? Did he preface that statement?


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Rate me here

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26259526 -

Nope.  I can be quite confident that fine people didn't show up to participate in the nazi march.  The two are mutually exclusive

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26259582 -

ballsalsa said:
Nope.  I can be quite confident that fine people didn't show up to participate in the nazi march.  The two are mutually exclusive


So, if I understand correctly:

1. Before forming your opinion on the events you knew that Trump specifically excluded neo-nazis and white supremacists from his "fine people" comment by adding "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the White nationalists, because they should be condemned totally — but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and White nationalists"

2. You were confident that, at the march organised to protest the removal of Confederate statues, there were no people who supported the protest without being neo-nazis and/or white supremacists.

3. In view of that you decided that despite claiming that "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the White nationalists, because they should be condemned totally" Trump in fact was talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists when he had mentioned "fine people" and also, contrary to what he expressly stated, he did not believe that they should be condemned.

4. Since then you have been happy with the above representation of Trump's speech in the media i.e. interpreting him saying "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the White nationalists, because they should be condemned totally" as meaning something along the lines of "I was talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists and don't think they should be condemned".

Is this an accurate description of your views? I am not trying to be pedantic but since there are a few steps of logic here I want to make sure I understand your position correctly?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26259594 -

ballsalsa said:
Nope.  I can be quite confident that fine people didn't show up to participate in the nazi march.  The two are mutually exclusive


So, if I understand correctly:

1. Before forming your opinion on what happened you knew that Trump specifically excluded neo-nazis and white supremac
Citizen X said:
:wonka: how do you know which “fine people” he’s talking about? Did he preface that statement?


He did:

"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee."

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26259600 -

He also said he believes Putin didn’t hack our election and then says he does believe he did so it’s hard for us to know which Trump to believe. You can understand that right?

So here we have Trump disavow white Nationalists and then says there’s fine people on both sides. He’s a known liar why do you feel the need to defend a liar? I’m intrigued

If I was there for statues I wouldn’t be marching with white supremacists but that’s just me


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 2
    #26259612 -

I’m not a nazi I just march with them from time to time doesn’t sit well with me and no word salad will change my mind. A girl lost her life because of it. I’m not there with you


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Rate me here

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26259637 -

Citizen X said:
He also said he believes Putin didn’t hack our election and then says he does believe he did so it’s hard for us to know which Trump to believe. You can understand that right?

So here we have Trump disavow white Nationalists and then says there’s fine people on both sides. He’s a known liar why do you feel the need to defend a liar? I’m intrigued

If I was there for statues I wouldn’t be marching with white supremacists but that’s just me


Based on my research I disagree with him on the Russian meddling. I completely understand that it is impossible to take everything he says literally - I don't.

In saying that to represent someone saying "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the White nationalists, because they should be condemned totally" as meaning the exact opposite is much worse than exaggerating the size of crowd at a rally. In that sense I am defending the public record, not Trump as such.

I would have no problem with the media clowns phrasing it as "despite Trump contemporaneously denying the fine people comment applied to neo-Nazis and white nationalists we believe otherwise" but just to say that he praised Nazis as "fine people" is misrepresentation of the highest order.

You may not agree that he was genuine in what said but can you at least see what I am objecting to?

EDIT: When you say he disavowed white nationalists and then said there were fine people on both sides you have it back to front. He first said there were fine people on both sides and then clarified (during the same conference and unprompted) that he was not talking about neo-Nazis and white nationalists - who should be condemned completely - but other people who were in that group. .

Edited by Metoo (10/17/19 09:04 PM)

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Citizen X] * 2
    #26259668 -

Citizen X said:
I’m not a nazi I just march with them from time to time doesn’t sit well with me and no word salad will change my mind. A girl lost her life because of it. I’m not there with you


The march ads did not warn anyone that driving cars into people would be on the program. There were people who came to the march against the removal of the statues to, well, protest the removal of the statues - out of whatever concerns they had. Scott Adams had a Jewish guy on his podcast who was there with his family because he felt strongly about this and had no idea neo-Nazis would turn up. Also, I remember how a day later CNN talked to someone else who was in the same position - showed up out of concern for the statues and got caught up in the mess. I am finding it stunning how anyone can assume that, in a free society like yours which is obsessed about diversity, all people who showed up at a permitted and publicly advertised event subscribed the same ideology.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26259735 -

I'm not arguing against your central point. I'm just saying that in the U.S. Nazi rallies are permitted and advertised.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26259781 -

Was the event in question one of those permitted and advertised Nazi rallies?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26259911 -

Lol, yes.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26260052 -

IDK, but I think it's only a matter of getting permits.

Our system of freedom allows NAMBLA conventions. I would much rather have a couple beers with American Nazis.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26260263 -

Quote:
There were people who came to the march against the removal of the statues to


It was a rally for white supremacists. One side were all bad people. It’s not that difficult.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26260314 -

koods said:
Quote:
There were people who came to the march against the removal of the statues to


It was a rally for white supremacists. One side were all bad people. It’s not that difficult.


No, Trump was correct. There were bad people on BOTH sides. The "anti protesters" went there looking to start violent confrontations. I saw it all on video, the MSM lied about the whole thing.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: qman]
    #26260387 -

qman said:
koods said:
Quote:
There were people who came to the march against the removal of the statues to


It was a rally for white supremacists. One side were all bad people. It’s not that difficult.


No, Trump was correct. There were bad people on BOTH sides. The "anti protesters" went there looking to start violent confrontations. I saw it all on video, the MSM lied about the whole thing.


That is true.

The statue protestors would have did their thing and left had BLM and ANTIFA not showed up.

Indeed, the MSM lied.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: XUL] * 5
    #26260402 -

Lol that’s a pathetic point of view. “It wasn’t their fault, they wouldn’t have killed a woman if women hadn’t shown up.”


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: christopera]
    #26260417 -

That's not the argument at all.

Try reading.

BLM and ANTIFA showed up.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: christopera]
    #26260425 -

christopera said:
Lol that’s a pathetic point of view. “It wasn’t their fault, they wouldn’t have killed a woman if women hadn’t shown up.”


Nice strawman, nobody is making that claim. The point is that bad people were on both sides and were looking for violent confrontations. The "anti-protesters" initiated most of the violent confrontations, the MSM would never report that fact.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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