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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level?
    #26029799 -

Imo opinion mushrooms are no more spiritual or supernatural than alcohol or crack cocaine. My friend is a total crystal muncher though and ruins my trips by going off the fucking rails. I have to spend so long calming him down or rationalising his fucked thoughts and it makes tripping with him effort.  I'm sick of joe rogan watching, quartz shelving weirdos that make people think psilocybin users are crazy. He's going down that rabbit hole and wants to take a heroic dose. Imo this will make him confirm all his crazy thoughts. Let it happen or try intervene? I have no problem with people thinking whatever they want but it hurts to see someone close to me cry about greylians reading his mind

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: Haleakala] * 1
    #26029839 -

Haleakala said:
Imo opinion mushrooms are no more spiritual or supernatural than alcohol or crack cocaine. My friend is a total crystal muncher though and ruins my trips by going off the fucking rails. I have to spend so long calming him down or rationalising his fucked thoughts ...


do not rationalize, just abide in your friendship as a rare and elusive thing. rationalizing is a waste of good dope, but friends, even freaky ones are a treasure.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26029885 -

Im a very skeptical person, and I have experienced very spiritual moments with what I felt was an entity.

Mushrooms can get very visionary.

But I don't trip with people.


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"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26029971 -

This is sort of a strange post lol. Sounds to me you and your friend share different philosophy's. You cant tell your friend mushrooms aren't spiritual any more than they can say otherwise because neither of you can prove or disprove anything. Best thing you can do is make sure your friend has a good sober trip sitter that knows how to handle people tripping balls :P

Judging by your Joe Rogan comment i'l assume you guys are in your 20s-early 30s based on his main demographic and that would make you adults. Just because you don't think mushrooms are spiritual doesn't make you correct. It also doesn't make you incorrect. I'l give you an example. I have deeply religious friends however I'm completely non religious. We just realize we really don't know and agree to disagree.

If your real concern is you don't think your friend is responsible enough to make this decision that's another story. If your both adults you really cant say shit though :P Your no more qualified to say mushrooms aren't spiritual than anyone who says they are. Spirituality is deeply personal and is different for everyone. If its a real good friend you'll be that sober trip sitter and if not, find someone else to trip with who also doesn't think mushrooms are spiritual. Its that simple.


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Anxiety is when your stuck in the future.
Depression is when your stuck in the past.
Happiness is when your stuck in the present.

Edited by Aeser (06/03/19 07:36 AM)

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: Aeser] * 1
    #26029986 -

I think OP should take a heroic dose, and your friend would probably be fine taking a heroic dose too.

You don't have to find out who is right, but you can definitely both learn something from the experience of taking that large of a dose.


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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: Sellith]
    #26030691 -

some possibly relevant questions:

1) presuming it was a good idea to intervene -- is it actually possible to do so gracefully?

2) just because someone is a "friend" does it mean you can influence them, as you want to? .... Doesn't seem to have worked so far, does it?

3) why do you need to influence others? Especially when they apparently don't wish to be influenced. What are your expectations as to what a 'friendship' should be?

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: Sellith]
    #26030846 -

I don't rationalise to try make him more skeptical or less "spiritual" in the way y'all took my question. He literally believes aliens come and do horrible stuff to him while tripping. He believes these aliens are God and they are punishing him. This would be OK as a learning experience or something if it was a one off experience  but he continues to take shrooms or acid and continues to believe this. It ends with horrible trips and insane paranoia. I try rationalise more in the way that "no the wind isn't a giant grey alien trying to blow the roof off the house to come get you" than "God/Aliens are real stop being crazy". Has anyone had to have an intervention or something to stop someone taking psychedelics? It feels so wrong to try control him likes he's a addict. He is someone who has been taking psychedelics for over a decade with no issues but crazy paranoid shit has only started in the last year. Is it a sign of some mental health issues that I could help or will he eventually figure out how to deal with it in his own way?

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: Haleakala] * 1
    #26030849 -

Easy, just tell him that he should stop being scared of things like that, in the same way that most paranormal things -don't hurt people.-

That's like being scared of pidgeons, pidgeons never hurt people.
It's therefore a better strategy to be nice to pidgeons than to fear them.
Yet many people have an irrational fear of these birds.


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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26031086 -

You mean this thread?

Awakened Fate said:
The little mushroom is EARTH MEDICINE
It cures Spiritual Blindness if ya let go and listen



I think it a start of higher awareness. We all have our own fears and weakness that we should learn to face and overcome.

redgreenvines said:
do not rationalize, just abide in your friendship as a rare and elusive thing. rationalizing is a waste of good dope, but friends, even freaky ones are a treasure.


:whathesaid::thumbup: with patience you may both come at midpoint when time comes and share ideas.

Youve mentioned he was a crystal mucher? I hope he can overcome this.

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: Haleakala]
    #26037014 -

Haleakala said:
.... He literally believes aliens come and do horrible stuff to him while tripping. He believes these aliens are God and they are punishing him. ....
....He is someone who has been taking psychedelics for over a decade with no issues but crazy paranoid shit has only started in the last year.
Is it a sign of some mental health issues that I could help or will he eventually figure out how to deal with it in his own way?


1) Yes he could be going nuts, or working thru some psychological problem.

2) Yes shrooms may be making it worse.

3) Yes there may be nothing you can do.

We on the internet, don't know you, your friend, or what sort of social support may be available, and even if we did, anyone could be wrong. Simple kindness and your own intuition are probably the best guide.

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: Haleakala]
    #26037539 -

Show him the LD50 of psilocybin to ensure he knows it isn't a risk to his physical health.
Quote:
Psilocybin can kill in extremely high doses. The LD50 of psilocybin is 280 mg/kg for rats. Therefore, nearly 1.7 kilograms of dried mushrooms, or 17 kilograms of fresh mushrooms, would be required for a 60 kg person to reach the 280 mg/kg LD50 rate of rats.


I've been in a similar boat, I knew a guy who believes that planting carrots cures warts, glowing green orbs have talked to him, and that a white tesla spaceship large enough to fit 20 passengers has flown in front of him, slowed down and shone a spotlight on him before flying off again. This was apparently before he hit a billy.

Sometimes straight facts can make them milder, but sometimes those beliefs are so broad it's difficult to cover them all, especially within a short period of time.

If you can expose him to the theory behind the electromagnetic spectrum, the chemistry behind an incense stick burning, how sound travels through a medium, how action potentials lead to movement, how eyes process incoming light, how synchronicity can be a meaningful recognition of a coincidence, how hot and cold reading works, and how telepathy between humans and or animals is unfounded in science, bar improving technology to computationally link neural activity.

If you can teach him the theory behind these concepts he should be able to grasp more clearly how aliens and spirituality in a fundamentalist sense are not so clear to others.

Spirituality can be a fine thing, mindfulness maybe better. All in all, in my views it's education on biological, chemical and the interrelated environmental workings that would solve the issues you've presented here.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: Haleakala] * 2
    #26038463 -

Throat punches.

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: Haleakala] * 2
    #26038705 -

Substances are secondary complications to your friend's mental status. Those people with pre-existing pathologies are the one's who wig out on psychedelics while methamphetamine users can easily become psychotic through the use of the drug without having evidenced paranoia previously. Mushrooms are "Moksha Medicine" (Aldous Huxley) and most certainly DO have the potential to "occasion" (Huston Smith) a mystical experience. I have been a substance abuse counselor since 1982 and worked in Miami during the height of the 1980s cocaine and crack epidemic. Not once did I ever hear/see/read of either forms of cocaine resulting in any form of religious or mystical awakening. Never. Alcohol can be used ritually in Christianity and Judaism, but only in Judaism is inebriation sometimes enjoyed during a Passover seder in the spirit of celebration, if one actually drinks an entire cup of wine between prayers.

But alcohol intoxication does not lend itself to psychospiritual or psychocosmic awakenings either, while psilocybin has the capability of eliciting an experience that may change an individual's life entirely. So I completely disagree with your statement. Mushrooms can and are used for completely banal purposes, novelty being the first and foremost. The Sacred CAN make an unexpected appearance in the profane and pedestrian Philistine, but such an event is rare and unusual. The Aztecs distributed psychedelic Morning Glory seed decoctions to their people to intensify the rituals of multiple human sacrifice, so psychedelics can be used for demonic purposes as well. The Manson Family is a post-modern example.

As for you, you should know that most friendships have a shelf-life. I would not be tripping with or around someone who is self-destructive. Just replace the word tripping with the word being. Tripping is an intensification of being, and by that I mean one's awareness expands to include both unconscious and superconscious aspects of consciousness that lie outside the normal range of ego-consciousness. Why would you subject yourself to predictably bad behaviors on the part of your friend? You will see levels of subtlety that you are ordinarily screened from until your own ego-defenses are reduced on a psychedelic. Just because you are friends up til now does not mean you have an obligation to be made to feel badly. :shrug: In fact, you are behaving co-dependently if you put his crazy needs first. The healthy thing is to treat him with kindness but also to treat yourself equally with kindness and that is not what you're doing by subjecting yourself to his disturbed behaviors. You are being an enabler which does not help him. He apparently needs mental health intervention. :yesnod:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (06/10/19 12:36 AM)

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26038723 -

Fantastic post, Markos. Thank you.

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #26038765 -

Of all that shite you wrote, what are you actually suggesting he do?

Walk away and send his friend to a psychiatrist?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #26038921 -

Your type of negative reactivity is predictable! :lol: It's best I don't respond to your post asking how people regard you.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #26038928 -

In these matters I'd imagine being clear and concise is useful.
And I'm kinda asking for it aren't I  :grin:


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: Me_Roy]
    #26038933 -

:cheers: Me_Roy.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26041061 -

as I said quite likely nothing one can do
and
as Marcos said not being around crazies, or 'negative energy' when tripping is highly advisable
and compassion for oneself is also an aspect of compassion

lastly many have 'crazy' beliefs,
and are not open to having them challenged
for some examples, among many others,
just go to the conspiracy forum on this website.
and
also consider that those who have been in cults
require special treatment
by deprograming experts
to return to more normal functioning,
so changing beliefs is no "walk in the park"

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Re: How to deal with a friend who believes in aliens and mushrooms being "spiritual" to an insane level? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26042715 -

Yes but getting to the moon was never an easy task. Even if this wouldn’t be a walk in the park, it may instead so be, a hike up the mountain, not quite a journey to another planet.

Having ‘positive energy’ environments can make a huge difference too, like no one that could walk in and disturb you, no work or study the next day, food and drink, a toilet nearby, music and a bed.

Y’all just be saying, “send him to the infirmary”.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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