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Anonymous
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here  [Re: Swami]
#762673 - 07/20/02 04:04 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Universal Law
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#762709 - 07/20/02 04:19 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thank you for that lengthy and clear reply. Unfortunately I do not have the time tonight to answer it with the kind of accuracy that it deserves. I will answer it tomorrow.
Good post! 
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 Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#763373 - 07/20/02 08:19 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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"So let me understand here. When you call me a "fucking asshole, "a retard", and "totally stupid" you are displaying how far above me that you have spiritually advanced? Perhaps you could share some of these techniques that have allowed you to drop your ego and to feel loving and compassionate towards everything and everyone."
I've been as kind to you as I can Swami. I realised early on how ego-driven you were when you were saying such drivel as "No-one can compete with my logic, I am supreme". The only thing you appear to understand is aggression. When i responded with humour you would turn nasty as tho you felt you had "won". I felt the best thing for your spiritual development was to humble you.
Each of us will vary in our ability to access these states. Agreed? We cannot all write songs like John Lennon, we cannot all access the deepest states of consciousness. You have found your deepest moment in seeing a tree melt. Others have reached furthur. There is no shame in this swami, yet it seems to irritate you. Your argument seems to be "Because me and my mates cannot reach this level no-one can". Of course you and your mates cannot write good songs either, this does not mean John Lennon couldn't.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#763505 - 07/20/02 09:42 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Fuck, man, it's THICK in here...
*puts on galoshes*
Okay, now I'm ready!
Shroomism: If you fail to recognize the spiritual world which you live in just as much as the physical, perhaps you should pay closer attention
Swami: To what?
Shroomism: Universal Law
*jot jot jot*
I swear... all the determinists believe in absolutes, often believe in god, and are typically elitists. Fear of the unknown... fear of the unknown.
Swami: So let me understand here. When you call me a "fucking asshole, "a retard", and "totally stupid" you are displaying how far above me that you have spiritually advanced? ...
Alex123: I've been as kind to you as I can Swami.
Ah... apparently masters of enlightenment have terribly low thresholds.
Makes sense, right?
Alex123: I felt the best thing for your spiritual development was to humble you.
I'm so happy there are humble people like yourself out there ready and willing to recognize and kick out the soapbox with such skill and merciful tact. Magnifique!
Alex123: You have found your deepest moment in seeing a tree melt...
Maybe if Swami posted his most profound experiences, your perception of him being an asshole, a skeptic, a naysayer, and a cold-hearted-labcoat-wearin'-scientist would be so blind-sided that you'll lose your grip on reality... you'll begin doubting everything, including your sanity... and you'll wind up running down the street naked shouting "IT WAS ALL A LIE!! A LIE!! A TERRIBLE LIE!! ARRRRGGGGHH!!"... you'll be Baker Acted, strapped down, hauled to the nearest hospital, and injected with a double dose of thorazine. Maybe you like drooling on yourself and wearing diapers, but it would break Swami's fragile heart.
Really it would.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Smack31
Stranger
Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#763527 - 07/20/02 10:00 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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that post was colorful... thank you for enhancing my spiritual world 
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#763626 - 07/20/02 11:24 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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"Ah... apparently masters of enlightenment have terribly low thresholds.
Makes sense, right?"
LOL..thanks, but i don't consider myself a master of enlightenment. However compard to you and swami I certainly am!
We are talking about the ability to access deeper states. Each human being will vary in his ability to access these states. Like we vary in everything else we do. You and swami can only access them to the extent you see a tree melt and go "wow...the tree just melted..like major brainfart dude". Others with a far greater aptitude and character can reach furthur than the superficial.
In essence, the people who can encounter entities are the equivalents of John Lennon in this area and you and swami are the equivalent of Billy Ray Cyrus.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
Edited by Alex123 (07/20/02 11:38 PM)
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#763814 - 07/21/02 04:13 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sclorch... you love defending Swami whenever you can don't you? wipe that shit off your nose buddy.
Sclorch and Swami sittin in a tree..
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#764131 - 07/21/02 08:16 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sclorch and Swami sittin in a tree..
And the tree is melting...
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#764330 - 07/21/02 10:10 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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When the question is asked and the only answers that will be accepted are those that fit the narrow paradigm of empirical science we are unable to answer the question as fully as possible. In other words, philosophy is a better tool to parse questions dealing with the spiritual nature of man than empirical science.
Here is the main problem as I see it with having no empirical knowledge, just a vague feeling of something more:
Lets make 2 opposing assumptions and examine them.
1. There is a God and a spiritual nature to man. We find ourselves facing a mortal illness.
We take comfort believing that a part of us continues after our corporeal body decomposes.
2. There is no God and no spiritual nature to man. We find ourselves facing a mortal illness.
The idea is too frightening to handle, so we make up a story about a God and an afterlife.
We take comfort believing that a part of us continues after our corporeal body decomposes.
Without any way to directly examine the beliefs regarding spirituality, I can determine NO WAY to differentiate which hypothesis is true. As Hypothesis 1. is the more complex model in that it makes large assumption, I lean heavily towards Hypothesis 2 until such evidence comes along to point me elsewhere.
I suppose it has something to do with the level of certitude that a person is comfortable with. There are very few things that are known with certitude. The Greeks used two words to describe different types of knowledge. The first one, episteme, meant knowledge with certitude. The law of non-contradiction in logic is an example. The second one, doxa, meant opinion, as in knowledge that could be revised with the addition of new facts.
I do not see how Hypothesis 1 is more complex or makes a large assumption. I think that the assumption in either hypothesis relies on our willingness to believe one or the other is true.
I would add to this the fact that most of the people in the world at all times present and past have had a dimension to their lives which was spiritual. Now that is not to say that all those billions of people are correct.
I am not setting myself up here as righteous or holy, but I cannot conceive of doing violence to another human being (unless directly threatened), yet many of those spiritual minions that you speak of believe whole-heartedly in war or at least allow it to exist.
Being spiritual does not equate with being moral and the fact that some believers are not moral does not make other believers immoral.
Questioning the existence of God is a relatively new phenomenon...
The history of this question in print may interest you, but the question is far from new, and when it originated is in no way helpful in coming to any conclusion.
Historical evidence is germane to the subject because it counts as much as facts do in inductive reasoning. The beginning of empirical reasoning was the factor that allowed people to more easily brush off the existence of God. People who believe in science make it episteme when it is only doxa.
I dissent from the opinion that there is nothing wrong with the scientific method if it is used to parse all the questions that can be asked.
My statement has been taken somewhat out of context. People pointed to past flaws in science and then blamed the scientific method. The method is not at fault, it is people favoring ideas even when contrarian evidence is shown.
I did not take your statement out of context though others might have. I added the necessary proviso to make my point. Philosophical questions cannot be answered by science.
Evolution nowadays is a religion. The true believers in it cannot even consider the possibility that it is not the whole truth or that there is something that science cannot answer. I pity them. They have half the truth.
I believe partly in the theory of evolution, but there are big, gaping holes that need to be further addressed. However, because they cannot yet (if ever) be answered does NOT mean that the void MUST be filled with mysticism.
That is correct, otherwise argumentum ad ignorantiam.
Lastly, there are philosophical arguments that strongly suggest the existence of an immaterial aspect to the side of man which opens the door to a spiritual side.
Apparently these arguments are not so strong as to sway me, and trust me, I have done tons of reading, meditating, fasting, pondering, introspecting, etc.
It is good that you have investigated the subject as much as you have. That is a lot better than blindly believing what others have told you. Of course, there is the chance that there is a philosophical argument that you haven't read that provides the necessary answer.
Well, this didn't come out as good as I had hoped.
Cheers,
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#764455 - 07/21/02 11:03 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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*checks nose... it's clean*
Alex123, are you trying to break my Achy, Breaky Heart?
You don't know what ad hominem means, do you?
It's okay, I won't hold it against you... I can't blame the ignorant.
(I really don't like doing this... I just feel that the best thing for your spiritual development is to humble you.)
As you know, we all vary in our perceptual apparatus, our ability to recognize patterns, and our knowledge base... I just never thought I'd run into someone so deficient in all three of those categories. I guess I can't really expect much thought from an infantile individual that resorts to childhood rhyming put-downs. I guess I could sink to your level and argue that you have "cooties" or whatever, but I'd feel embarassed... maybe if I hit the sauce real hard and hung out at a daycare center for a day, then there is a greater possibility that I'd take you up on your challenge to playground warfare.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#765118 - 07/21/02 04:01 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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"As you know, we all vary in our perceptual apparatus, our ability to recognize patterns, and our knowledge base... I just never thought I'd run into someone so deficient in all three of those categories. I guess I can't really expect much thought from an infantile individual that resorts to childhood rhyming put-downs. I guess I could sink to your level and argue that you have "cooties" or whatever, but I'd feel embarassed... maybe if I hit the sauce real hard and hung out at a daycare center for a day, then there is a greater possibility that I'd take you up on your challenge to playground warfare."
This is an example of an ad hominem.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#765183 - 07/21/02 04:18 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Mr_Mushrooms: This is an example of an ad hominem.
I know... did you forget what I posted above?
Here it is again, in case you missed it:
Sclorch: Maybe we'll see some critical thinking soon (hey, the ad hom's been ruled fair).
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#765200 - 07/21/02 04:22 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I didn't forget. I was trying to make it as obvious as possible.
Just trying to help.
Cheers,
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#765723 - 07/21/02 06:50 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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You sound upset sclorch. Your deepest spiritual moment is seeing a tree melt. (Just after you came out of the piss trough at the sammy hagar concert)
Don't worry about it. Work on your character and maybe one day you might encounter entities too. Human beings spiritual development is on a bell curve, yours is currently at the spiritually retarded level.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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 erectronik
newbie
Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 34
Loc: zeitung unter den See
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#765895 - 07/21/02 07:42 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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If alot of people at this board were contacted by aliens, they would fight them every step of the way.
Like some of the others here, I form beliefs based on experience. I have never had an experience involving aliens, therefore I have no belief in them. This says that my willingness to believe that which I see firsthand is strong. It is the condition of my belief in something. So, apparently you don't understand the nature of the criticism you're witnessing. You are close-minded to it, maybe?
As close-minded as this perhaps,
Don't worry about it. Work on your character and maybe one day you might encounter entities too. Human beings spiritual development is on a bell curve, yours is currently at the spiritually retarded level.
Some close-minded people, like the ones protesting that aliens exist, aren't satisfied with "spirituality" unless it involves actual spirits, with names, and special super powers that we wish we had, or beings with fantastic existences and a role in our destiny, a destiny with all the drama and excitement of a good hollywood flick.
Sorry, my spirituality is more "boring", it involves something within me that I can barely explain to my own satisfaction, but it involves who I am, how I look at happiness and my own destiny, and overall consists in the HERE and NOW, and PEOPLE I KNOW, and PEOPLE I MEET.
It is a boring movie about MY LIFE and things that actually effect me, when I'm sober or tripping. If anything hallucinogens have done for me, it's making my reality and my fantasy worlds harmonize.
The difference between me and you, is that my fantasies have done all the changing in order to make this marriage work.
I've learned to see my relationships with people as very important and perhaps as fantastic as the ones you're imagining with aliens.
People are enough for me to look at in wonder.
The sky and the trees are an amazing combination that I get to contemplate daily.
I don't find earth boring.
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"Hallucinogens can be like talking to a really talented salesman: beware of what you can sell yourself." - J.L.C.
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Blastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 3,323
Loc: The Desert
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#765920 - 07/21/02 07:51 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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it really seems like you keep missing the point and then just end up putting down another's level of spirituality.
point being if your spirituality level is above those who embrace logic in debates rather than insults, shouldn't your replies be filled with such love and compassion, rather than insults?
hope that made enough sense.
interesting putdowns to say the least, heh not something you would hear on a playground or a bar that's for sure.
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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
n. 3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'. Used as both an insult or an expletive.
ex. Blastrid!
Stereopattern <--My music.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: erectronik]
#766014 - 07/21/02 08:19 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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So, apparently you don't understand the nature of the criticism you're witnessing. You are close-minded to it, maybe?
I understand your point of view (I think). I don't think you SHOULD believe in aliens just because a few people on a mushroom message board say they've had experiences with them. But I also don't think you should disregard the idea as "impossible" just because you havn't had similar experiences. I don't care if you critisize my beliefs and opinions, as long as you do it constructively and somewhat respectively.
Some close-minded people, like the ones protesting that aliens exist
This is a pretty closed-minded statement in itself, is it not? Your saying that people who think aliens exist are closed-minded. Correct me if I'm misinterpeting you.
I've learned to see my relationships with people as very important and perhaps as fantastic as the ones you're imagining with aliens.
Again this seems a bit closed-minded by assuming that those who have experiences with aliens are just imagining it.
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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erectronik
newbie
Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 34
Loc: zeitung unter den See
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: erectronik]
#766267 - 07/22/02 12:16 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for the complement under all that heavy criticism, and I think there was substance to that weight.
Yes, I was putting another's spirituality down, but only in effect. I was also giving a detailed opinon. If anyone gets anything from that message, hopefully it will be the same as me saying, "Even if aliens existed, or ESP was possible, or God existed, or whatever else, I would have spirituality WITHOUT THEM."
I never claimed to have reached a height of compassion in my spirituality, just an awe of life. I think an embrace of logic would lead to compassion as a value, and I'm not sure that giving my opinion, honestly, even if it be in a conflict, wasn't totally uncompassionate. I think sharing my opinon was done as much to spread my happiness with life, as it was to criticize.
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"Hallucinogens can be like talking to a really talented salesman: beware of what you can sell yourself." - J.L.C.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Blastrid]
#766533 - 07/22/02 04:55 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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point being if your spirituality level is above those who embrace logic in debates rather than insults, shouldn't your replies be filled with such love and compassion, rather than insults?
Embraces logic? Are you serious? If he embraced logic I'd be happy as a sandboy. He embraces idiocy. When you've got someone ass-raping every thread with ignorance and boasting "Once again I destroy anyone who disputes me" you simply have to put them firmly in their place. It's for their own good.
Have you ever heard Bill Hicks Rant in E-minor? Bill was a very spiritually advanced guy and had an alien contact experience that permanently changed his worldview during a mushroom trip in 1987. He was also very impatient with stupidity and ignorance.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
Edited by Alex123 (07/22/02 07:48 AM)
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Blastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 3,323
Loc: The Desert
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#768889 - 07/22/02 07:37 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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please show me evidence of this info about Bill Hicks.
Here's a great link: http://www.innuendocornecopria.com/BILLHICKS.htm
a pretty lengthly biography on Hicks, but doesn't say anything about that.
i agree that there are a lot who bash what they view as such a radical belief, but if you in turn bash them, how are you any better?
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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
n. 3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'. Used as both an insult or an expletive.
ex. Blastrid!
Stereopattern <--My music.
Edited by Blastrid (07/22/02 07:38 PM)
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