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 Zulu_Shaman
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 3
Last seen: 22 years, 4 months
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 The Aliens Are Here 
#753569 - 07/17/02 12:27 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hello, this is my first post but I have been watching this forum for awhile now.. The past few months have brought me the realization that there are extra-dimensional beings among us. The two types I have experienced so far are the "Greys" and a reptilian race. I will go over what I've learned about the Greys first.
They are closer in frequency/dimension to us than the Reptilians. Because of this they are the ones to carry out alot of the assignments the reptiles cannot currently do. They are cold, calculating, almost robot-like and show no emotion humans are accustomed to. They are very scientific and seem to worship technology... But for some reason they are interested in humans. I think it's because we have emotions they can't feel, and somehow they use our emotions for their own purposes. I don't think they are evil.. They perform operations on our bodies that seem to benefit both races. They are interested in evolving us, because in doing so it somehow helps themselves.
The reptiles I know much less about, as they like to keep their agendas hidden. They are also cold, but they are not all malevolent. Just like humans have a wide variety of personalities, so do they. Some feed off our emotions, some give wisdom, and some help in evolution. They have been with us since the beginning. They are involved in every major leap in evolution that we have taken. I suspect they reside in the 4th dimension, subtley controlling and manipulating us for their wide variety of purposes (both good and bad). They took us with them in the dimensional fall, but now it is time for us to ascend back. They cannot go back without us, because we are somehow their responsibility.
Soon they will make themselves known. I believe the Greys will be the first, because the Reptilians tend to stay hidden... as the dimensional overlap increases there will be mass sightings and in some cases contact. The government wants to keep this under wraps as much as possible, but they are here among us right now, and as we shift dimensions the truth must become known.
I don't ask anyone to believe me. Just keep your eyes, ears, and brain open and you should be able to discover these things on your own. By 2003 the next step in the plan will be in place.
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EvilGir
Im the on coming storm
Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Zulu_Shaman]
#753649 - 07/17/02 01:04 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I take it this co-insides with the switching of the earth magnetic poles and not forgetting the 12th planet entering our solar system.
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Fighting the man the best way I can.
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Zulu_Shaman
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 3
Last seen: 22 years, 4 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: EvilGir]
#753788 - 07/17/02 01:55 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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The Anunnaki or "Nefilim" are at least partly reptilian. The Anunnaki god Enlil was called the Splendid Serpent of the shining eyes. The god Enki was also known as a serpent. They are also referred to as the Watchers... There have been various dragon or serpent gods in every major cultural myth throughout human history. A large portion of these myths originate from the Anunnaki.
I have no specific information concerning the return of Nibiru, but I am aware of the coming changes the Earth will experience due to both inner and outer forces. These will take place largely between 2003-2012, but what exactly happens is still up in the air because we still have choices to make that will directly affect the outcome.
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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Zulu_Shaman]
#753932 - 07/17/02 02:42 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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These will take place largely between 2003-2012, but what exactly happens is still up in the air...
Something(s) will occur somewhere on Earth during this 9 year period. We don't know what they are, but we can specifically pinpoint these changes after they happen.
The precognitive prowess of the alien-human mindmeld is simply staggering.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Zulu_Shaman]
#753946 - 07/17/02 02:45 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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...you should be able to discover these things on your own.
Uh-huh. Please describe your methodology for contact in detail for the slow ones among us.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Eightball
whore consumer
 
Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 3,013
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#753971 - 07/17/02 02:54 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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i'm thinking these changes are going to be a bit more obvious and they'll make us all think "well damn, this is a serious change". don't be so quick to put your almost mocking 2 cents into something you cannot possibly disprove. if we start shifting dimensions in a year or two, you'll feel pretty stupid for putting forth effort to counter theories in which you had no business commenting on.
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Zulu_Shaman]
#754036 - 07/17/02 03:55 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Zulu how exactly did you get this info? have you spoke with them?
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Zulu_Shaman]
#754100 - 07/17/02 04:21 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do any of the aliens look like this,
or perhaps like this,
or maybe they resemble these,
Edited by Evolving (07/17/02 04:21 PM)
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TheShroomHermit
Divine Hermit of the Everything
Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 7,575
Loc: border of Canada and Mexi...
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#754112 - 07/17/02 04:25 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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What is the last one supposed to resemble?
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Anonymous
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That's a sign you'll see driving the 5 freeway (San Diego area) near the Mexican border, it means to be careful because it's an illegal alien crossing area.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Eightball]
#754280 - 07/17/02 05:31 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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if we start shifting dimensions in a year or two,
A theory has to be based on SOMETHING; otherwise it is just fantasy. This hardly qualifies as a theory.
And when no dimensional shift happens, the believers will do their famous dance that I have seen hundreds of times:
"We just weren't yet ready for it."
"It happened, but your vibrational level was too dense to perceive."
and on and on it goes...
you'll feel pretty stupid for putting forth effort to counter theories in which you had no business commenting on.
And you will feel like a genius when it doesn't? WHy is is I have no business commenting on nonsensical bullshit?
I have mentioned this before: I was an acquaintence of one of the suicide victims of the Heaven's Gate Cult. This is not always just fun and games. People can and do get carried away with their fantasies.
I saw similar craziness in Rajneeshpurham (Antelope, OR) with the Bhagwan and his automatic weapons. Then of course there was Waco and the Branch Davidians and Jonestown - other famous "end-of-world" cults.
The messenger bringing the warning is not the bad guy. Taste before you swallow.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (07/17/02 07:01 PM)
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Zulu_Shaman
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 3
Last seen: 22 years, 4 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#754489 - 07/17/02 07:02 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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The Greys have contacted me on several occasions... Communicating with the Reptilians is much harder because again, they like to stay hidden. (Although I have had a full-blown experience with a higher level reptile in the upper 3rd dimension / lower 4th dimension). I advise against attempting to call these beings until you can master your emotions, as the reptiles in particular like to feed off of basic feelings like aggression and fear.
>>The messenger bringing the warning is not the bad guy. Taste before you swallow<<
I whole-heartedly agree with you Swami.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#754544 - 07/17/02 07:14 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Seems like somebody needs to re-adjust their meds.
Whatever happened to the harmonic convergence in 1987? Hmmm?
"Beginning at Dawn everywhere on the Earth on Sunday, August 16, 1987, 144,000 humans are being called upon to create a complete field of trust by surrendering themselves to the planet and to the higher galactic intelligences which guide and monitor the planet. At that time and continuing through Monday, August 17, the higher galactic intelligences will be transmitting a collective planetary vision as well as messages of personal destiny to and through these people, the rainbow humans."
Um, yeah, I was focusing all my energies during that time near Boulder Co. I didn't feel anything shift. Maybe I should try harder.
Yeah, right.
We all have a brain. Maybe we should try using it.
Cynically,
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Zulu_Shaman]
#754560 - 07/17/02 07:20 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have had many such meetings with the greys in the past. Though their complete lack of emotions initially turned me away from them. I meet with some other beings on a regular basis, pleiadians and sirians and who knows who else comes along... arcturus beings?
I have several experiences with the reptiles I can recall.. they have a very "dominating" presence when you do come in contact with them.. for lack of a better word.. perhaps a very male-like presence is what I mean. They are rather sharp and quick to the point and I do think that contrary to popular belief the reptiles are not all malevolent. Even some that may appear malevolent can still play a similar role in helping you activate kundalini and getting those rusty chakras spinning properly.
I'm glad that another person on this board has the courage to make public their experiences with aliens. Perhaps if there were more of us that spoke out about our experiences, some wouldn't be so quick to call us delusional nutcases. 
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Eightball]
#754567 - 07/17/02 07:22 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I find your assertions...
highly illogical.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Zulu_Shaman]
#754600 - 07/17/02 07:32 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Zulu: I whole-heartedly agree with you Swami.
*Gulp*
Zulu: Man, this tastes like shit!
Sclorch: Your words... strong as oak, eh?
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#754607 - 07/17/02 07:33 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Same thing, but the alleged Harmonic Convergence was not dangerous.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#754643 - 07/17/02 07:45 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sometimes I have a difficult time telling the difference between barking mad and bug-shit crazy.
Does that ever happen to you?
(no disrespect intended)
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EvilGir
Im the on coming storm
Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#755206 - 07/18/02 03:56 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok well there Is some type of gravatational force just outside our
own solar system. The proof of this is simple the planet Pluto is the only planet in our solar system that is not in an olipticle orbit. There is also a noticable slight wobble to some of the other outermost planets. What this means is there is something out there and possible on its way towards earth.
All this has been proven through maths, thats how the last two planets where found and not through powerfull telescopes. So the new dimentional crossing could mean loesing the human form which would have to mean death the ultimate trip, or just a total crazy fu*ked up new existence. Kinda like the series V.
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Fighting the man the best way I can.
Edited by jezu (07/18/02 03:59 AM)
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: EvilGir]
#755317 - 07/18/02 04:54 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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May the Farce be with you.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#755321 - 07/18/02 04:54 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Then of course there was Waco and the Branch Davidians"
Yet more ignorance..
Until the ATF went in blasting their homes with automatic weapons followed a few months later by Bradley tanks shooting fire into the compound the Branch davidians were doing just fine. Don't believe everything Janet Reno says.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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EvilGir
Im the on coming storm
Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#755367 - 07/18/02 05:15 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Actualy I dont buy the aliens are comeing and dimensional stuff. But there could be a brown dwaw or red comming ourt way next year. This may stop the earth rotating for 3 days which will mean either constant light or constan dark depending where you are. The argument about gravity stopping would be simple,
its not the rotating of the earth that keeps us here its the density.
Also the object passing through our system is supossed to coinside with the earths magnetic poles changing and there is proof that this HAS happened in the past.
So all this will mean more earht quakes, volcanic eruptions and just the usualy stuff that happens today anyway. If aliens did exist they will just look at us and think do we realy want to visit thoes crazy bastard and share our technology and stuff. Just so they can destroy them selfs alot faster and take us with them.
The Human race is nowhere near ready to involved with any type of alien race.
We can not even get on with our own diffrent races. In relative terms the human race has only just been concevied. We have only just made it in to the egg.
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Fighting the man the best way I can.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: EvilGir]
#755480 - 07/18/02 06:05 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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We have only just made it in to the egg.
I disagree... I think we have been in the egg all this time, or the womb of the Earth. But our birth into fully divine beings is getting closer; the egg is cracking. The Dragon of Chaos has once again entered our world to aid in this process, and it will appear to rule all, but order will emerge as we ascend out of the 3rd dimension.
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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dumlovesyou
retired shroomer
Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 688
Loc: One dimension
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Zulu_Shaman]
#755651 - 07/18/02 07:26 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Let's suppose I am a normal person with everyday duties. And I say :" Dude, aliens are my best budies, I play cards (sometime monopoly) with them. These aliens like to trip like hell man!! We eat mushrooms toghether and have tons of fun! This is not all. Once at an exam, my best alien friend (he has a very strange name that cannot be written, it goes something like Koluah (pronunced without tongue, directly from the throat(they have no tongue)). As I was saying, my best alien friend entered my head dimension and just let my hand write all of the subjects in notime. I can tell tons of other interesting stories, but I don't think it metters now. Do you belive me?
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I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world
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EvilGir
Im the on coming storm
Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 1,301
Loc: Planet Irk
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: dumlovesyou]
#757691 - 07/18/02 08:24 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok then lets look for proof of aliens, Why dont one of the moderators join SETI and set up a Team Shroomery for the seti project. I would be willing to join.
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Fighting the man the best way I can.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: EvilGir]
#757710 - 07/18/02 08:29 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Seti has good intentions, but it is bullshit.
What are the chances of finding aliens using radio waves?
A better question would be: Would a group of highly evolved beings that can travel through space and time with ease even use radio waves? That seems like a pretty primitive form of communication.
It's like trying to send smoke signals to NASA for help.
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Smack31
Stranger
Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#757785 - 07/18/02 09:16 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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maddness is the quickest path to enlightenment 
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#757911 - 07/18/02 11:22 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Uh-huh. Please describe your methodology for contact in detail for the slow ones among us.
Well, first an open mind is essential. Aliens don't really like to meet up with people that don't believe they exist.
Once you have that taken care of. I would recommend meditating.
"Call" upon your higher-self to be with you and help guide you.
Send a "call" to the beings. The call is done telepathically. Send a call to the beings like you are calling someone on the phone and asking them to come over. All it requires is a thought. If your conscious mind is doing it, then you can be assured the subconscious is doing it too on a deeper level.
You can send a call to any beings that may be listening, or to a particular group.
The type of call you send will determine the type of beings that respond.
If you make the "call" in anger, frustration, fear, or a self-serving attitude, then the beings that will visit will be beings that are also self-serving, beings that feed on fear and negative emotions.
If you make the "call" with good intentions.. i.e. spiritual wisdom for assistance in helping others and yourself to evolve, love, acceptance, and other sefless attitudes, then the beings that will respond will be loving, accepting, helpful beings.
They always respond to the call.
Whether you remember it or not is up to you. You can block it from your memory if you wish, and that is usually standard procedure for people who are not accustomed to the extraterrestrial presence...until their consciousness becomes a little more flexible, then you will be able to percieve them in the conscious, waking state. Unless you are ready to meet with an extraterrestrial face-to-face, they will visit you during the dream state to get you accustomed to their presence.
Please do not respond with cynicism or some other nasty reply. I am trying ot be helpful, and you did ask.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#758096 - 07/19/02 03:40 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Aliens don't really like to meet up with people that don't believe they exist.
Uh huh. The first humans ever contacted would most certainly NOT have believed in their existence (you cannot believe in something for which there was no precedent), thus precluding first contact. So this argument goes completely out the window.
That is NO different than saying, "The Easter Bunny will not come to houses that don't believe in his existence."
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#758203 - 07/19/02 04:38 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, primitive man's mind would have been open on the subject of deities and entities. Your mind is closed to the possibility. There is a difference.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Mycelium
THC Junkie
Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 463
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Zulu_Shaman]
#758246 - 07/19/02 05:08 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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The question is.. Whos side are YOU on?
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Mycelium
THC Junkie
Registered: 06/14/02
Posts: 463
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Mycelium]
#758251 - 07/19/02 05:11 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was told this same story by one of "you". I almost believed him when he told me.. Then I realized his story was drug induced. Not by the drugs he was doing currently but by the combined number of drugs he did his whole life. he's a wackjob and full of shit. if you are communicating with a being not of this world, you shouldn't be. you will meet them when you die... why risk damnation.
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Anonymous
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#758252 - 07/19/02 05:12 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Uh huh. The first humans ever contacted would most certainly NOT have believed in their existence (you cannot believe in something for which there was no precedent), thus precluding first contact. So this argument goes completely out the window.
Would Gods or other 'higher beings' be considered having an opened mind to other life forms? Early civilzations were definitly open-minded to such beliefs so what would stop aliens from visiting them? And I'm sure the aliens would know whether or not they've even been contacted and have had the chance to not believe in them. And how would you know the first contacted human didn't believe in them? A caveman looking up in the sky could believe beings lived up there. You never know....well *you* never know..
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#758526 - 07/19/02 07:05 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah...I think you made a mistake with that post swami.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#758567 - 07/19/02 07:27 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you for your open honesty. It takes courage to speak up like that. Courage is rarer than intelligence nowadays.
Would you believe what one of these beings told you if you knew it wasn't true or couldn't be proven true by empirical methods?
If so, then how do you explain the inconsistency in your mind?
Are you saying that an experience with these beings requires faith?
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#758605 - 07/19/02 07:38 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Would you believe what one of these beings told you if you knew it wasn't true or couldn't be proven true by empirical methods?
I would consider the possibility. You don't have to believe what they tell you, just be open to the information. If alot of people at this board were contacted by aliens, they would fight them every step of the way.
I understand everyones fear of blind or dogmatic beliefs, but c'mon, I do mushrooms. I can't blindly believe anything on mushrooms. I doubt any and EVERY thing, whether it's the existence of aliens or the existence of myself. 
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#758624 - 07/19/02 07:43 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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The first humans ever contacted would most certainly NOT have believed in their existence (you cannot believe in something for which there was no precedent), thus precluding first contact. So this argument goes completely out the window.
You missed my point entirely. They wouldn't already be closed to the idea of extradimensional beings, therefore they would be open to any contact. You however, have already closed yourself off to any such belief, making it disbelief. It's convenient that you left out the first part of that sentence, where I said an open mind is essential.
There is a difference between disbelief, no belief whatsoever, and belief.
Anyway, if I was a primitive man looking at the stars, I would most certainly be pondering higher beings than myself.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#758645 - 07/19/02 07:55 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Would you believe what one of these beings told you if you knew it wasn't true or couldn't be proven true by empirical methods?
Well which one is it? If I knew it wasn't true, no I would not believe them. But then, I don't know everything. When I am told something in great detail, that rings true inside myself, for a matter which is normally clouded in debate and theories that plague Earth scientists, I tend to view it as holding more water than any of the theories that exist for it. I don't blindly accept everything, but when the facts line up, and the explanations are solid, I accept it as truth more so than the maybe 10 different theories for that same thing.
Many things can't be proven true using empirical methods. Hell, most of what we think we know about our world is based on a theory which people accept as fact.
Are you saying that an experience with these beings requires faith?
I'm saying an experience with these beings require an open mind
Sorry, can't write a full response now. Shall return later.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#758730 - 07/19/02 08:40 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, primitive man's mind would have been open on the subject of deities and entities. Your mind is closed to the possibility. There is a difference.
You don't know diddle about my mind. Why not speak of that which you know? Are you open-minded to the possibility that you are delusional when it comes to aliens?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#758890 - 07/19/02 09:59 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Are you open-minded to the possibility that you are delusional when it comes to aliens?
Of course not Swami... we CAN'T be delusional, because we KNOW aliens exist.
Well, we've already seen a plethora of ad hominem attacks on Swami. I wonder why it comes from those with dogmatic beliefs in aliens. Maybe we'll see some critical thinking soon (hey, the ad hom's been ruled fair).
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#758899 - 07/19/02 10:04 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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You don't know diddle about my mind. Why not speak of that which you know? Are you open-minded to the possibility that you are delusional when it comes to aliens?
You act as though most of us here think what we believe is a normal thing for everyone to believe. We know what we believe and experience is uncommon and makes us sound delusional but were the ones going through it all so we have more say on whether it is bullshit or not. Sure you can sit there and criticize and rip our beliefs a part but we all know inside everyone theres a part of you that knows theres more to life than just the everyday scientific explanations. You know why science hasn't come up with a reason for shroom trips? because there isn't one. Sure theres may be *chemical* reasons why you trip but that doesn't even come close to explaining why you experience the things you experience. If things were as simple as chemical reactions...lol what would provoke a thought itself? I find it 'highly illogical' chemicals can create thought. Though we all know chemicals can create feelings and *provoke* thoughts, but that doesn't come close to explaining what creates the thought itself...and feelings are nothing but senses our BODY has, therefore it is possible to feel something from chemicals. I believe in the soul itself being the only thing that can create thought, thats why we will never be able to make a truely artificial intelligence. Though we can come close by programming and making it mimic to a very high extent.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#758901 - 07/19/02 10:06 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Though we all know chemicals can create feelings and *provoke* thoughts, but that doesn't come close to explaining what creates the thought itself
What's the difference between creating a thought and provoking a thought?
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#758911 - 07/19/02 10:12 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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provoking a thought being influencing it. I should have clarified that
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dumlovesyou
retired shroomer
Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 688
Loc: One dimension
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#759030 - 07/19/02 11:00 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Uh huh. The first humans ever contacted would most certainly NOT have believed in their existence (you cannot believe in something for which there was no precedent), thus precluding first contact
You say first people wouldn't thought of it. BUT WHY ARE WE THINKING OF ALIENS NOW? Because somone has thought before?
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I see trees of green, psylocibe mushrooms too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#759039 - 07/19/02 11:02 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Clear as mud now...
You'll have to do better than that.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#759236 - 07/19/02 12:11 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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When you disagree with another's belief system, you call it explaining the truth to the delusional.
When a "believer" disagrees with your point of view. You call it making an attack.
Doesn't really make sense does it...
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#759263 - 07/19/02 12:23 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Clear as mud now...You'll have to do better than that.
Aww..is little sclorchy having trouble understanding what's going on around him again? They're so cute at that age..
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#759579 - 07/19/02 03:45 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Aww..is little sclorchy having trouble understanding what's going on around him again? They're so cute at that age..
Nice ad hominem. No, really.
Seeing as how I was being civil to you, I guess you didn't understand that YOUR statement was unclear. I just wanted to know the details (read biochemistry) of what it means for a chemical to "provoke" or "influence" a thought. I guess it's beyond your explanatory abilities. Sorry I exposed your limits... I was just curious.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#759639 - 07/19/02 04:21 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh really now that is what you wanted to know? strange because all I read was..
"What's the difference between creating a thought and provoking a thought? "
I explained and you were still confused. And yes, I did use some sarcasm in my post as you do so often but now that you've been gotten you cry, funny how my sarcasm still holds its point.
But to answer your next question I just wanted to know the details (read biochemistry) of what it means for a chemical to "provoke" or "influence" a thought.
I'm not a genius nor a biochemist but I do know that when under chemicals such as alcohol, MDMA, LSD, etc. you think VERY differently, therefore it's clear to see they 'influence' thought processing, which is the creation of thought. But what creates thought processing exactly? What kind of explanation can your oh-so-smart-in-biochemistry self tell me about this?
Edited by dustin (07/19/02 04:23 PM)
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llib
journeyman
Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 129
Loc: florida
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: EvilGir]
#759645 - 07/19/02 04:25 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would respectfully disagree with the statement that only pluto has an abnormal orbit. Are you aware thatthere is an asteroid belt that has an elliptical orbit which puts its path are perpendiuclar lines with the orbiting planets.
astronomers propose this "debris" through which the earth passes every 13,000 years or so as one of teh explanations for smaller "cataclysmic" events that happen every 13,000 years or thereabouts.
the earth itself has a wobble, that is also why the sun rises in a differnet constellation every 10,000- 13,000 years also at the summer equinox when viewed directly east
this idea of increasingvibrational energies, spiritual awareness, often cited as being predicted by the mayans is interesting to think about. I do believe that teh moon can affect mood and awareness, it certainly can affect the tides. We are made up of quite a bit of water. The only explanation that I have read for this change are the following.
1) cataclysmic events occur periodically every 13k years because of our earth crossing the path of this "debris"
2) cataclysmic events are thought to occur, the big ones, every 30 million years, from larger "debris" because our solar system also rotates around the galactic center and every 30 million years our solar system apparently passes through a debris laden part of the galaxy
so thi smight explain chnage sthat occur because of being struck by comets or atseroids ect, in conjunction with this, volcanic eruptions, tidal waves, atmospheric changes ect, possible earth criust displacemnt ect, possible polarity changes
however the other events that are occuring that I believe may somehow be linked, are related to sunspots. Apparently, there is an increasing number of sunspots that have begun occuring and are predicted to occur and increase through 2012 or thereabouts.
if sunspots, which are though to be solar flares, and give off magnetic energies, are increasing, I can fathom how this increase or chnage in magnetic fields may cause a chnage.
i am still searching to find out how these phyiscal events are related to a spiritual awakening, enlightenment, quickening that so many of the "new age spiritualist" expound.
I do believe it is occuring but havent figure out just how and/or why. The mayans do speak of the c5 cycles of teh sun. apparently, we are in the end of the 5th cycle. according to the mayans, at the end of each sun cycle, there is an apocalyptic event. The end of teh 5th cycle of teh sun coincides with their year of 2012.
i agree with many here who say, well what happens if nothing occurs in 2012. i am not stuck on that year so much as believeing that in general and from a probability standpoint, being stuck by a earth-threatening object is higher than at other tiems because of teh previously stated occurences. It could be that it happens 100 years later. For soem astronomers they feel, that this 'at-risk" period actually started 3,000 years ago.
Some who study geodectics believe that some or all of the megolithic structures built, i.e., pyramids, machu pichu, stonehenge, easter island, structure in cambodia, sunken structure off japan, the central american pyramids, the nazca lines, were built with teh intention of plotting or predicting this events that do so much damage to the present civilizations.
The pyramids are particularly interesting. Apparently, the sphinx points within one radian of due east. Quite remarkable. Apparnetly, when they were built the star chmabers with thir respecticve hsafts were aligned with certain stars. some feel that they are a representation of the three stars in orien's belt and the milky way being the nile.
I would like some more direction into understanding sunspots and teh magnetic fields caused by these events and how they may affect human emotion and awareness. If anyone has any references or links this would be appreciated.
the pyramids
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#759720 - 07/19/02 04:58 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Would you believe what one of these beings told you if you knew it wasn't true or couldn't be proven true by empirical methods?
"Well which one is it?"
Either one.
" If I knew it wasn't true, no I would not believe them. But then, I don't know everything. When I am told something in great detail, that rings true inside myself, for a matter which is normally clouded in debate and theories that plague Earth scientists, I tend to view it as holding more water than any of the theories that exist for it. I don't blindly accept everything, but when the facts line up, and the explanations are solid, I accept it as truth more so than the maybe 10 different theories for that same thing."
So what exactly are you using to determine if something is true? When you say something "rings true inside myself" it appears as if you are using intuition but when you say "when the facts line up and the explanations are solid" it appears you are using ordinary reason, ie deductive and inductive logic.
Well which one is it?
If it is an admixture of intuition and logic how to you differentiate where one begins and where the other leaves off?
"Many things can't be proven true using empirical methods. Hell, most of what we think we know about our world is based on a theory which people accept as fact."
I am not sure what you are saying here. What kind of things cannot be proven true using empiricsal methods? And what 'theory' are you referring to?
Are you saying that an experience with these beings requires faith?
"I'm saying an experience with these beings require an open mind"
What is the difference?
As an aside I have met and talked to aliens, at least that's what I thought at the time. My interpretation of the event(s) is different now. After all, the crux is the interpretation, isn't it?
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#759764 - 07/19/02 05:23 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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If it is an admixture of intuition and logic how to you differentiate where one begins and where the other leaves off?
It's called Lateralized Thinking, and the balancing force is called Unconditional Love.
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Adamist]
#759773 - 07/19/02 05:28 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's nice but without any specific definitions your statement is useless.
Would you care to enlighten us?
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llib
journeyman
Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 129
Loc: florida
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#759784 - 07/19/02 05:32 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would like to propose that someone explain empirical evidence
as a scientist, empirical evidence is only based upon other human conclsuions , possibly based upon other empirical evidence.
i can tell you as someone who has done quite a bot of scientific research, that what you may believe to be the truth, can often chnage in science
The governments and nobility, sought after the dark ages to send out their great minds, scientist to com eup with answers based upon the scientific method
the scientific method is structured , but believe me can easily be biased, conclusions unfounded and in the end it is only a probability that something occured by chance in a minimal way
from a statistical standpoint, scientis try to propose a null hypotheis, they state that adding x substance does not affect the outcome "y" compared not to adding 'x" substance for a ceratin test.
statisticinas have decided that if something happens within a 95% confidence interval that then it is statistical significnat, meaning tha the chnage found would only happen 5% of teh time by chance.
i have always asked myself when i write papers why is 5% by chnace accpted, why not 10% or 1 %. Does something that is found to be statistically non-significant p<.05 have no meaning. What if the p value was .06. Statistician and robot-like investoigators would outright reject teh studt saying teh there was no casual effect. Simply on the difference of one percentage point.
Additionally, whne you get to the highe levels of scientifc endeavor, for instance i am on an editorial board of a well know scientific journal, th epolitics at that level ar eno different than snad-box politics ....albeit not the rule.
After achieving this level and reading quantum mechanics, i can betetr understand how we as scientist are evolving back to a more spirtual aproach to understanding ourselves and the universe.
quantum mechnaics is meshing with eastern philosphical thought very quickly
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#759800 - 07/19/02 05:37 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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A reliance on just one hemisphere of the brain creates an imbalance that will eventually become destructive. Just look at the past two thousand years of male-dominated insanity, for example.
Finally it seems that we as a race are becoming integrated, lateralized, and unified in our thinking. How did this happen? What is the universally unifying force of Creation?
Love.
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#759802 - 07/19/02 05:38 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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So what exactly are you using to determine if something is true? When you say something "rings true inside myself" it appears as if you are using intuition but when you say "when the facts line up and the explanations are solid" it appears you are using ordinary reason, ie deductive and inductive logic.
Well which one is it?
If it is an admixture of intuition and logic how to you differentiate where one begins and where the other leaves off?
Indeed it is a mixture of intuition and logic, and when both are leaning towards the truth, it holds more water in my mind. Intuition is usually the first to come through, followed by the statement of facts which can be researched. I can tell the difference between the two, because intuition is felt, and logic is processed by the rational mind. They undergo two very different processes in the mind.
To put it another way, I first rely on my instinct, or intuition when processing such information. If my right brain approves, it then moves to the left brain for the information and facts to be analyzed and researched. Ideally, I would like to be able to process the information simultaneously in both sides of the brain, ala integration style, but alas, I am still working on that.
I am not sure what you are saying here. What kind of things cannot be proven true using empiricsal methods? And what 'theory' are you referring to?
Well that depends completely on what specifically you are talking about. I gave such a broad answer becuase I was not sure what things you were reffering to that can be proven true using empirical methods.
Generally, I don't recieve information like mathematical formulas that humans have not yet decoded.. at least not to my knowledge. I do, however, recieve a plethora of information regarding spiritual orientation, the process of reincarnation and evolution, the expansion of consciousness and subsequent ascension process the Earth is undergoing, how these beings travel through hyperspace, the true history of Earth and origin of life, how the Universe was created, how to help other beings find the inner god within themselves, what life and society is like on some of these other planets, general knowledge of densities and frequencies, understanding some of the mysteries of Earth and their function, how the spirit evolves, meditation and visualization techniques for greasing the old chakras, and other related information.
Now, I could give you an in depth analysis of any of these bits of information, but since they have not yet been proven to science by using empirical methods, what good will it do until they are proven? I've tried sharing some of these things on this board specifically, only to be shot down by the skeptics claiming these things have not been proven by mainstream science therefore it is a delusion. I can tell you where to find the sunken city of Atlantis, I can tell you how ships travel through hyperspace and light years in a split second, I can tell you what is underneath the Sphinx... does any of this matter? Until they are discovered, I am just another crazy person who talks to imaginary aliens.
I don't say these things to make myself feel big, or to cause controversy. I say them because I believe they are true based on my experience, inuition and research into the matter. I say them because I am trying to get others to awaken to that innate ability that exists within all of us. I am not special. Anyone with the desire can tap into the same channel of information that I do. I say these things because we live in a world of illusions, and it is time to wake the hell up. The world isn't based on material things and logic. That is only one side of the coin. We live in the spiritual world as much as we do the physical, we are just so focused on the physical, we forget about the spiritual sometimes.
When you are asleep and dreaming, you aren't very focused on waking reality are you? Dreams do seem pretty real when you are in them don't they? Well it's time to stop dreaming and wake up, the sun is rising.
As an aside I have met and talked to aliens, at least that's what I thought at the time. My interpretation of the event(s) is different now. After all, the crux is the interpretation, isn't it?
Indeed
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Adamist]
#759820 - 07/19/02 05:48 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you for clearing the matter up.
I understand what you are saying now. However, I have a different take on it. I agree that the force which may bring unification might be love but I am not sure that unification is such a good thing. Somethings cannot be unified. Oil and water alone do not mix. I see us slipping sadly to a non-rational feminist mode. A place where there is no reason but mere feeling. The evidences of this is all around us. However, that is only what my filter allows me to see.
Still, this does not answer my analytical question. How does one discern where intuition should be used and when to use reason.
Am I clear?
BTW, your observation about the different hemispheres is interpreted differently by others. There are many scientists who do not give much credence to the hemisphere paradigm.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: llib]
#759852 - 07/19/02 06:05 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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i am still searching to find out how these phyiscal events are related to a spiritual awakening, enlightenment, quickening that so many of the "new age spiritualist" expound.
From my perspective, the increase in solar flares, natural disasters, pertubutions of the Earth's magnetic field, etc.. are all related to the approach of the 12th planet, aka Nibiru. The passage of this rogue planet also coincides with our solar system entering into what is known as the "Photon Band" of space, in which our solar system will be in direct view of the Galactic Center, sometimes reffered to as God. To me anyway... "God" is just the center of the Universe. The Great Central Sun.
The Sun plays an important role in our evolution as a species, and it's light contains solar codings which configure and evolves our dna. 3rd density beings would not survive the very intense light emitted from the Great Central Sun. We are being evolved into a higher vibrational frequency in order to not only be able to handle this light physically, but to understand it and use it for our evolution. The Sun is a conscious being, and is aware of all of the happenings in our Galaxy. The Sun also recieves information from other stars, and is effected by them. This foreign mass entering our solar system (Nibiru) was a trigger that tells it that our time is near. The increase in solar flares are directly related to the rate at which we are evolving. They have been getting bigger and more frequent lately, and I can only say that they will get even bigger. The moon also plays a role in this, as it reflects the light from our sun to us and also has a consciousness of its own.
Earth plays the biggest role in this, as it is she that is evolving. It is doing all that it can do to help accelerate our evolution so that we may ascend into 4th density with it. It is a great cosmic party, and we are a few of the dancers.
So if you want a scientific explanation for all of these abnormalities in the weather and the sun, it is because the magnetic pull of the 12th planet is effecting our solar system with its sudden entrance into our very balanced system. Even from long range, it is effecting us.
If you want a spiritual explanation, we have entered the age of Aquarius. We have reached the end of 3rd density on this plane and it is time for us to evolve to a higher level. Our solar system will soon be in direct view of the original creation, so we need to begin taking responsibility for our actions as a species, or we will not evolve. After all, that is one of the main lessons of the 3rd density.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#759861 - 07/19/02 06:07 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Still, this does not answer my analytical question. How does one discern where intuition should be used and when to use reason.
Use your intuition to figure that one out
No seriously, I think you should use them both.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#759908 - 07/19/02 06:27 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I see us slipping sadly to a non-rational feminist mode. A place where there is no reason but mere feeling. The evidences of this is all around us.
I will not dogmatically attempt to change your opinion.. But my opinion is that we are not slipping into this "non-rational" mode, but rather ascending.
'Mere feeling'? Feeling is a huge part of my life, my friend, and I feel sad for anyone who misses out on the wide varieties of it that are possible. No I don't think we should operate on pure feeling but I also don't think we should operate on pure reason and logic. They balance each other out. It is an exciting and wonderful time to be alive! And that is my opinion.
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#759924 - 07/19/02 06:31 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good post. Now I have a clearer grasp of what you are trying to say.
I would love to talk about each point with you but unfortunately I do not have the time for that.
I do wish to make a couple of points though.
Today science and it's empirical method, ie methodological naturalism, reigns supreme in the minds of many. That is very unfortunate because philosophy rules over science and most people, lay persons and scientists alike, do not realize this. Only philosophy can define what science is because that is it's job and by that right it has a superior place in the hierarchy of knowledge.
One cannot say science is never wrong because it is wrong all the time. Many theories are discarded for new and improved ones. Science in its infancy had a certain hubris that it has never been able to completely shed. How many times has science been stood on its head because some new information came in? Newton? Einstein? Planck? Darwin? Behe?
Now, we are asked by science to unconditionally accept whatever 'truth' it throws at us while recognizing that it may be completely wrong. Are you with me?
That is not to say that science has no merit because it does. Technological advances should not be discounted but they should be ranked in the order of real importance when one is experiencing the world in which we live.
We cannot have that meaning through science. We all strive for meaning in our lives in many ways. We need love, companionship, and other things that science simply cannot give.
According to hard cold science love is simply electro-chemical impulses just as everything is. As if by reductionism we can strut about boasting what we know when we know very little that won't be interpreted differently by the next generation of scientists.
However, with all that said I still have more faith in reason and data than I do the intuition that you start with when you began an investigation. Why? Because reason has never let me down. It has a better track record, so to speak.
I think, and this is subject to my own revision as facts come in, that intuition may well be unconscious cues that are not evident overtly. Our senses process many things without our being consciously aware of them. Why does intuition fail at times? Because there are many different outcomes available in the equation. Intuition tells us (instinctively) which one is most probable.
One last thing. If a person is truly skeptical shouldn't they be skeptical about the emipircal method as well?
Who here can tell me where naturalism began and why?
I hope you enjoyed my little contribution.
Cheers,
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Adamist]
#759931 - 07/19/02 06:34 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well put! I couldn't agree with you more.
See my answer to Shroomism in the alien thread for more.
Cheers,
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: llib]
#759954 - 07/19/02 06:44 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I consider quantum mechanics a load of hooey.
See this link for another interpretation of the facts.
Good post!
What is the null set for evolution?
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#760007 - 07/19/02 07:02 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Great post Mr Mushrooms.. 
I especially like this line..
One cannot say science is never wrong because it is wrong all the time. Many theories are discarded for new and improved ones. Science in its infancy had a certain hubris that it has never been able to completely shed. How many times has science been stood on its head because some new information came in? Newton? Einstein? Planck? Darwin? Behe?
Science and logic do indeed have their place in deducing the truth, but they are not absolute. We must find the middle ground between spiritual/creative/right brained believer, and scientific/logical/left brained thinker. Together, both sides will find the truth together. In opposition however, there will only be endless debate and controversy. When scientist and philospher unite as one, with respect of each individual's beliefs and thought patterns, that is where true progress will be made. We must work together.
Mr Mushrooms, I believe you are the type of scientific thinker that is willing to work with the spiritualists while maintaining a common respect of each individual's ideas and beliefs. Sclorch, you should be taking notes.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#760074 - 07/19/02 07:28 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you very much. I am flattered.
I only want the truth and don't allow foolishness to get in my way of finding it, be it scientific foolishness or spiritual foolishness. For there is foolishness on both sides.
It is obvious that man has a spiritual side. But what does that mean? I do not allow science to dictate that answer to me any more than I allow religion to dictate my science.
I have a great little paragraph that Einstein wrote that sums it up. I'll post it tomorrow.
Cheers,
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#760151 - 07/19/02 07:52 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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"You don't know diddle about my mind."
I know enough of it to know that you're following me around the shroomery boards making pathetic posts in order to "get your own back" for me blowing all your arguments apart.
Check out the san pedro thread on the other drugs forum for swami's sense of humour bypass...
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#760441 - 07/19/02 09:27 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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As an aside I have met and talked to aliens, at least that's what I thought at the time. My interpretation of the event(s) is different now.
I would be very interested in hearing about your experiences...
If you don't wish to post them a PM would be most helpful.
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#760540 - 07/19/02 09:59 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is obvious that man has a spiritual side.
It is not at all obvious, else everyone would believe that. Perhaps you may state your case why you find this to be self-evident.
As to your previous comments on science and flaws, please note that there is nothing wrong with the scientific method, but with the human tendency to glom on to popular ideas, even when contradicted by new evidence.
As an aside, I found it very interesting that when I questioned some basic assumptions on evolution on another board (not on the shroomery) I was instantly branded a creationist, though I hold no views at all corresponding to that paradigm.
In fact, I stated no view at all, I merely asked questions on some pieces that don't quite fit the Darwinian model.
Assumptions are rampant everywhere and are a roadblock to clear thinking.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (07/19/02 10:08 PM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#760581 - 07/19/02 10:22 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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We must find the middle ground between spiritual/creative/right brained believer, and scientific/logical/left brained thinker.
This sounds good on paper, however, truth is not a diplomatic compromise. A particular crop circle was either created by a human or it wasn't - there is no middle ground. The earth is not both flat and spherical. Trying to get to the core of something is not about pleasing all sides; it is about tossing aside the chaffe to see what remains.
Creativity is about expression; logic and rationality is about understanding the mechanics of something. These are two different tools for vastly different purposes.
Frequently the term intuition is used to mean something metaphysical, when it may just be a lifetime of knowledge and experience processed at a subconscious level, rather than a mystic message from the ether.
For example: I was playing racquetball the other day and my opponent was amazed at how I was able to "intuit" his shots and be there to retrieve them. That probably had more to do with 30 years of being on the court and able to read the nuances of his body positioning, balance and previous shot selection, than any mysterious knowledge coming to me. Because this level of processing goes on a deep level (doing all of these calculations at a conscious level would take far too long) we may tend to call this intuition.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Zulu_Shaman]
#760618 - 07/19/02 10:36 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here is the problem with aliens as I see it.
1. Only a small percentage of people experience them and there is no sure-fire method for contact.
2. Those that do experience them do not all agree on physical description or motivation. This means that some or ALL of these contactees are in error.
3. Information transmitted cannot be verified nor collaborated. (yes, they are collborated AFTER the fact, but that is human nature.) For example, if I gave two previous contactees a stong dose of mushrooms and put them in separate rooms, I guarantee their reports would not match up.
4. We know that mentally ill people have visions and hear voices that are not "real" so what is different about these experiences to give them more substance?
5. We know that on mushrooms, people see and experience things that are NOT happenening (your friend doesn't really grow a third eye just because that is what you see). So again, what differentiates the alien experience?
6. Those who point to common experiences of aliens around the world are unaware of the power of exposure to story and myth through enculturation.
7. If they were "real" some experiment could be devised to demonstrate this fact, but to date no one has come up with anything.
As these experiences are completely personal and self-contained, I see NO difference between them and pure imagination.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#760655 - 07/19/02 11:07 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are dimensions beyond the physical.
That's the only energy I'm going to waste to try and explain myself, Swami.
Obviously no one here is going to change your beliefs, and you aren't going to change mine. So why waste time and energy on this same old song and dance? Couldn't you be more productive doing some "experiments" or something?
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
Edited by Adamist (07/19/02 11:08 PM)
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Xlea321
Stranger
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#760691 - 07/20/02 12:00 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is not at all obvious, else everyone would believe that
What are you talking about? How many billions of people around the world believe that man has a spiritual side? That man has a spiritual side is obvious to anyone with half a brain. Does every single person on earth have to "believe" it before it becomes obvious?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Xlea321
Stranger
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#760696 - 07/20/02 12:04 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Those who point to common experiences of aliens around the world are unaware of the power of exposure to story and myth through enculturation"
On the contrary, i was an ardent non-believer in any such thing. Then i took mushrooms.
7. If they were "real" some experiment could be devised to demonstrate this fact, but to date no one has come up with anything.
Experiment? Do you really believe that man has worked out the meaning of everything in the universe in 400 years of the scientific method? That if he can't recreate it in a lab then it cannot exist?
"As these experiences are completely personal and self-contained, I see NO difference between them and pure imagination."
I have never imagined contacts with entities. I encounter them regularly when I take mushrooms. This is the crucial flaw in the "it's your imagination, you've watched communion" angle. Incidentally, I've never seen communion...
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#760707 - 07/20/02 12:21 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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On the contrary, i was an ardent non-believer in any such thing. Then i took mushrooms.
Same here... While I did think that other life must exist somewhere, I doubted that it would ever come to Earth and communicate with humans. I didn't think humans were important enough to communicate with by extraterrestrials advanced enough to travel through space.
I underestimated us. Mushrooms showed me the divine potential in each and every human being. Although we have been in what seems like a dark age for who knows how long, things are starting to look up. Maybe it takes the young to realize this, or maybe it's just the disillusioned nature of youthful idealism , but I do believe we are removing the veil that has been placed over our eyes since our 'fall' in consciousness. This new existence will not be without its difficulties, but we will be much less confused as I believe the truth about who we are, where we come from, and what we're doing here is soon to be revealed.
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Swami
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#760711 - 07/20/02 12:25 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have never imagined contacts with entities. I encounter them regularly when I take mushrooms.
Before I first tripped, I never imagined trees melting, yet I fail to believe that means that trees really do melt. Once again (actually the dozenth time!) what differentiates alien contact (believed to be real) with other mushroom side-effects (that we can all agree are not real)?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#760716 - 07/20/02 12:36 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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It amazes me how you can violate three rules of logical argument in such short order:
many billions of people around the world believe that man has a spiritual side?
1. The fallacy of large numbers.
Billions of people believe that billions of others view of spirituality is completely wrong, so some or all of those billions are mistaken.
That man has a spiritual side is obvious
2. The fallacy of self-evident or a priori knowledge.
This statement says NOTHING to advance your position. Restating your position more vehemently is not part a of rational discussion. Is that really the best that you can come up with to point to man's supposedly spiritual nature?
anyone with half a brain
3. The fallacy of the ad-hominem.
Anyone who doesn't agree with you must be a retard. How quaint.
Thanks once again for a zero content post.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (07/20/02 12:45 AM)
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Eightball
whore consumer
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#760718 - 07/20/02 12:40 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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i've experienced 'talking' to other consciouses while on mushrooms once and to this day i'm not 100% sure where the other dialoge came from. sure it could just be shrooms doing their thing and me playing along very well but the fluidity and content of conversations was not (that i'm aware of) my knowledge being regurgitated to me. i listened to a female talk for a while and then i was aware that i was able to pick up more conversations so i was hearing in excess of 10 beings talking at once. i then chose one to listen to and it became the only one i could hear. again this being seemed to be not me and it was rattling off on some maybe philosophical or religous discussion. i don't really remember exactly what was said during these discussions but it definitely stuck out as something well out of the ordinary (even for a mushroom trip) again, i was under the influence of shrooms so this really doesn't bring any credibility towards the existence of anything that could possibly be derived from this experience.
i think its definitely possible that it was ALL in my head but some part of me was left with the impression it wasn't
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.
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Swami
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#760772 - 07/20/02 02:17 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you really believe that man has worked out the meaning of everything in the universe in 400 years of the scientific method? That if he can't recreate it in a lab then it cannot exist?
That is quite an extrapolation there, none of which I said.
My point is that for people to claim an experience as not being purely subjective, i.e. having some reality outside of their own mind; then there should be some way to show that it is not merely an internal state, such as through objective verification. Otherwise there is NO WAY to distinguish these types of experiences from any other dream, fantasy, or hallucination.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Mystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Eightball]
#760837 - 07/20/02 03:00 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know there isn't a whole hell of a lot that I can be sure about when it comes to stuff like this, but one thing I am sure about is that something is definately happening all around us, and it's slowly escilating. At times it seems like little more then a combination of cultural conditioning and self fullfiling prophecies, but more often then nought it seems to be so much more. I may not be able to fully classify what exactly this 'something' is, but I do know that I'm not the only one that senses it. I personally became aware of this global change some time back, but I ignored my instincts for the longest time due to my analytical tendencies. I always felt that if it didn't have a seemingly sound philasophical explination then it couldn't possibly hold any weight in the real world. Over time though I've grown much more acceptent of my 'spiritual' side (or metaphysical if you prefer) and have become aware of a great many energies previously unknown. For a while there I was open to any suggestion/theory/belief/etc and I did little more with my life then absorb information. Lately though I've been sorting through everything I've learned within the past few years and have been deciding for myself what I choose to believe in and what I choose to pass on as mere folklore. ..... I know that in itself isn't much of a contribution to the thread, but I hesitate to share knowledge that I am still currently unsure about. One thing I can say though is that there is most certainly a connection between psychedelics in general and this inevitable chain of events wich has already been set in motion. It's my assumption that mushrooms in particular hold a key role in the realization and acceptance of this up-comming change, and that they serve as a sort of 'guide' or teaching aid of some sort. I am still not quite sure how exactly that works though, but my theory so far is that it's a combination of temporarily altering an individual's innate 'frequency' (as so many others tend to say) thereby making us more susseptible to the workings of the underlying world beneath the material realm...and also by putting our analytical minds to rest for a short time, thereby making us more willing to accept new ideas simply by giving us a logical explination of the incomprehesable (e.g. we can always pass it off as a mere halucination induced by the psychoactive compound of the shrooms if we choose not to accept the things we learn while exposed to the intricate aspects of life which are normally shrouded by disbelief/ignorance/whatever)
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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
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It's my assumption that mushrooms in particular hold a key role in the realization and acceptance of this up-comming change,
If the mushrooms could portend change and future events, then why have almost all of the mushroom cultures been wiped out?
Also saying that significant changes are coming could be said about any time in human history.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#760853 - 07/20/02 03:13 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe the mushroom cultures eventually found it all too grim to bear and self destructed, in a round about way.
And yes, we are on the cusp of something potentially "huge", but please point me to a time when we were not.
I like that.
This cusp is, though, a little different. At the rate things are accelerating, we might fling ourselves over the brink, for better or worse, soon enough.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Adamist]
#761161 - 07/20/02 05:50 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I will PM you.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#761231 - 07/20/02 06:22 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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When I say that it is obvious that man has a spiritual side I am not suggesting that there isn't a single person that does not see it that way. Of course there are atheists and agnostics who view the spiritual side of man as counterintuitive. Now, I cannot give empirical evidence for my assumption because doing so is to delimit the search for knowledge and restrict it to methodological naturalism alone. When the question is asked and the only answers that will be accepted are those that fit the narrow paradigm of empirical science we are unable to answer the question as fully as possible. In other words, philosophy is a better tool to parse questions dealing with the spiritual nature of man than empirical science.
On an intuitive level I have a feeling that there is something more to life than the answers that empirical science can offer. But I am not sure how important "feelings" are to getting a clear answer to your question. I would add to this the fact that most of the people in the world at all times present and past have had a dimension to their lives which was spiritual. Now that is not to say that all those billions of people are correct. They may all be wrong, but I doubt it. Man as a creature has felt that there is something beyond himself. Questioning the existence of God is a relatively new phenomenon predicated on the popularity of the empirical method. Naturalism was started by Thomas Hobbes as a direct attack on the Church of England. The battle lines were drawn and we have had no peace since.
I dissent from the opinion that there is nothing wrong with the scientific method if it is used to parse all the questions that can be asked. Some questions are purely philosophical and as such remain outside the purview of science.
Methodological naturalism cannot admit the addition of teleology and so any questions that have a teleological aspect to them need the addition of philosophy to answer them to their fullest.
Evolution nowadays is a religion. The true believers in it cannot even consider the possibility that it is not the whole truth or that there is something that science cannot answer. I pity them. They have half the truth.
The anomalies in the history of life here cannot be answered by evolution as it is currently understood. I think that is a real shame because science only progresses as it should when it includes the anomalies, not ignore them. Newton and Einstein are a good evidence of that.
Lastly, there are philosophical arguments that strongly suggest the existence of an immaterial aspect to the side of man which opens the door to a spiritual side.
I hope this was clear enough for you. If you have any further questions I would be happy to answer them. If you see any flaws in my thinking be sure to point them out. I am always open to refining what I think.
Cheers,
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Droz
Love of Life
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#761698 - 07/20/02 09:06 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Now i have a question for all of you who have spoke with aliens. Did you read about these aliens before you contacted them? Or did all of this information like the name Grey and Reptilians telepathically enter your head?
What i think is that you of course read or heard about this stuff before, let it enter into ur thoughts and now you are constantly thinking about aliens and letting ur imagination run with it. Kinda like self brainwashing. It happened to me in a similiar case but that would be another post. Some of you may suffer from chemical imbalances like i did.
So what is it?
Peace,
Droz
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Evolution of Time.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Droz]
#761761 - 07/20/02 09:28 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I had never heard of any "Reptilian" race before... I've never watched any sci-fi shows or read any alien books, etc. In fact, after I had my initial experience with the serpent that seemed not of this earth, I searched in vain for information about any kind of reptilian or serpent race of beings. After searching for a long time for books in libraries and stores, eventually I started to scour the internet. I picked up some less-than-reliable sources like David Icke and others claiming to channel them, but mainly it's all came from my head in the initial experience.
I started having experiences with the Greys awhile after that... I can't say I hadn't heard of them, most people in America have heard of them.
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Xlea321
Stranger
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#761833 - 07/20/02 09:47 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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"That man has a spiritual side is obvious
2. The fallacy of self-evident or a priori knowledge"
Dear lord how dim are you? When billions of people believe there is a spiritual side to their nature then it is obvious there is a spiritual side to human beings. Billions of people believe in love by your "logic" this would mean love is fallacy too. You may "argue" about what exactly "spiritual" and "love" means but to deny they exist is profoundly stupid.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Xlea321
Stranger
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#761871 - 07/20/02 10:00 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Before I first tripped, I never imagined trees melting, yet I fail to believe that means that trees really do melt. Once again (actually the dozenth time!) what differentiates alien contact (believed to be real) with other mushroom side-effects (that we can all agree are not real)?
For the tenth time, when you see trees melt are you aware they are not really melting? Most people can easily differentiate between these superficial effects and the far deeper and more powerful experience of communication with aliens.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Droz]
#761888 - 07/20/02 10:07 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Did you read about these aliens before you contacted them? Or did all of this information like the name Grey and Reptilians telepathically enter your head?"
I was four years old when I was first contacted. I could not read. My parents did not talk about them nor did anyone else in my tiny social circle. This was in the late 50's.
That is more information than I am comfortable in posting about my contact(s). I do not have them anymore. I stopped them.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Droz]
#761998 - 07/20/02 10:53 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I had never read any books about aliens, and probably the only thing I ever heard about aliens was watching ET fifteen years ago. After my first experience with them, however.. I began to search for information, and found a lot. I found that a lot of the information coincided with what I had experienced. Other people experienced things very similar to my experiences.
But to answer your question...no, I never had any interest or read anything about aliens until after my first experience with them.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Adamist]
#762018 - 07/20/02 10:59 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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In reply to:
but I do believe we are removing the veil that has been placed over our eyes since our 'fall' in consciousness. This new existence will not be without its difficulties, but we will be much less confused as I believe the truth about who we are, where we come from, and what we're doing here is soon to be revealed.
Amen.
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#762079 - 07/20/02 11:18 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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All humans are spirits first and foremost, residing within physical bodies.
This much is obvious to me at least.
If you fail to recognize the spiritual world which you live in just as much as the physical, perhaps you should pay closer attention.
Edited by Shroomism (07/20/02 11:24 AM)
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Xlea321
Stranger
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#762170 - 07/20/02 11:56 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Another thing Swami forgets is that human beings will differ in their ability to reach these states. As in all other areas of human activity there will be a bell curve of ability. John Lennon had a larger ability to write songs. Some of us will be able to access furthur into these realms than others.
Swami's most mystical experience is seeing trees melt. If that was as much as I had got out of the psychedelic experience I would have stopped many years ago.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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KeepAskingTime
addict
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#762182 - 07/20/02 12:04 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#762189 - 07/20/02 12:09 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey man, when the trees are all un-melted all the time, a good melted tree can be a God-send.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Adamist]
#762531 - 07/20/02 03:00 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I had never heard of any "Reptilian" race before... I've never watched any sci-fi shows or read any alien books
Maybe, maybe not. However Star Trek and its imagery are fairly ubiquitous in our culture. Captain Kirk fought a reptilian alien back in 1969 and this episode has been rerun 10,000 times. On the original Outer Limits in the '60s, a group of people at an amusement park were kidnapped by a reptilian creature.
There were also Sci Fi movies in the '50s and '60s featuring small bodied large-headed aliens.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#762593 - 07/20/02 03:24 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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When the question is asked and the only answers that will be accepted are those that fit the narrow paradigm of empirical science we are unable to answer the question as fully as possible. In other words, philosophy is a better tool to parse questions dealing with the spiritual nature of man than empirical science.
Here is the main problem as I see it with having no empirical knowledge, just a vague feeling of something more:
Lets make 2 opposing assumptions and examine them.
1. There is a God and a spiritual nature to man. We find ourselves facing a mortal illness.
We take comfort believing that a part of us continues after our corporeal body decomposes.
2. There is no God and no spiritual nature to man. We find ourselves facing a mortal illness.
The idea is too frightening to handle, so we make up a story about a God and an afterlife.
We take comfort believing that a part of us continues after our corporeal body decomposes.
Without any way to directly examine the beliefs regarding spirituality, I can determine NO WAY to differentiate which hypothesis is true. As Hypothesis 1. is the more complex model in that it makes large assumption, I lean heavily towards Hypothesis 2 until such evidence comes along to point me elsewhere.
I would add to this the fact that most of the people in the world at all times present and past have had a dimension to their lives which was spiritual. Now that is not to say that all those billions of people are correct.
I am not setting myself up here as righteous or holy, but I cannot conceive of doing violence to another human being (unless directly threatened), yet many of those spiritual minions that you speak of believe whole-heartedly in war or at least allow it to exist.
Questioning the existence of God is a relatively new phenomenon...
The history of this question in print may interest you, but the question is far from new, and when it originated is in no way helpful in coming to any conclusion.
I dissent from the opinion that there is nothing wrong with the scientific method if it is used to parse all the questions that can be asked.
My statement has been taken somewhat out of context. People pointed to past flaws in science and then blamed the scientific method. The method is not at fault, it is people favoring ideas even when contrarian evidence is shown.
Evolution nowadays is a religion. The true believers in it cannot even consider the possibility that it is not the whole truth or that there is something that science cannot answer. I pity them. They have half the truth.
I believe partly in the theory of evolution, but there are big, gaping holes that need to be further addressed. However, because they cannot yet (if ever) be answered does NOT mean that the void MUST be filled with mysticism.
Lastly, there are philosophical arguments that strongly suggest the existence of an immaterial aspect to the side of man which opens the door to a spiritual side.
Apparently these arguments are not so strong as to sway me, and trust me, I have done tons of reading, meditating, fasting, pondering, introspecting, etc.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Posts: 15,413
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#762602 - 07/20/02 03:29 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Most people can easily differentiate between these superficial effects and the far deeper and more powerful experience of communication with aliens.
Most people? And we know who these people are? So then if some people are mistaken, then the possibility exists that all could be mistaken.
A handful of people on mushrooms have had the powerful experience of wanting to kill another or to take their own lives. So much for those authentic feelings...
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (07/20/02 03:42 PM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#762612 - 07/20/02 03:36 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Some of us will be able to access furthur into these realms than others.
So let me understand here. When you call me a "fucking asshole, "a retard", and "totally stupid" you are displaying how far above me that you have spiritually advanced? Perhaps you could share some of these techniques that have allowed you to drop your ego and to feel loving and compassionate towards everything and everyone.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (07/20/02 03:36 PM)
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#762617 - 07/20/02 03:37 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you fail to recognize the spiritual world which you live in just as much as the physical, perhaps you should pay closer attention
To what?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#762623 - 07/20/02 03:40 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#762673 - 07/20/02 04:04 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Universal Law
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#762709 - 07/20/02 04:19 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you for that lengthy and clear reply. Unfortunately I do not have the time tonight to answer it with the kind of accuracy that it deserves. I will answer it tomorrow.
Good post!
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#763373 - 07/20/02 08:19 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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"So let me understand here. When you call me a "fucking asshole, "a retard", and "totally stupid" you are displaying how far above me that you have spiritually advanced? Perhaps you could share some of these techniques that have allowed you to drop your ego and to feel loving and compassionate towards everything and everyone."
I've been as kind to you as I can Swami. I realised early on how ego-driven you were when you were saying such drivel as "No-one can compete with my logic, I am supreme". The only thing you appear to understand is aggression. When i responded with humour you would turn nasty as tho you felt you had "won". I felt the best thing for your spiritual development was to humble you.
Each of us will vary in our ability to access these states. Agreed? We cannot all write songs like John Lennon, we cannot all access the deepest states of consciousness. You have found your deepest moment in seeing a tree melt. Others have reached furthur. There is no shame in this swami, yet it seems to irritate you. Your argument seems to be "Because me and my mates cannot reach this level no-one can". Of course you and your mates cannot write good songs either, this does not mean John Lennon couldn't.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#763505 - 07/20/02 09:42 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Fuck, man, it's THICK in here...
*puts on galoshes*
Okay, now I'm ready!
Shroomism: If you fail to recognize the spiritual world which you live in just as much as the physical, perhaps you should pay closer attention
Swami: To what?
Shroomism: Universal Law
*jot jot jot*
I swear... all the determinists believe in absolutes, often believe in god, and are typically elitists. Fear of the unknown... fear of the unknown.
Swami: So let me understand here. When you call me a "fucking asshole, "a retard", and "totally stupid" you are displaying how far above me that you have spiritually advanced? ...
Alex123: I've been as kind to you as I can Swami.
Ah... apparently masters of enlightenment have terribly low thresholds.
Makes sense, right?
Alex123: I felt the best thing for your spiritual development was to humble you.
I'm so happy there are humble people like yourself out there ready and willing to recognize and kick out the soapbox with such skill and merciful tact. Magnifique!
Alex123: You have found your deepest moment in seeing a tree melt...
Maybe if Swami posted his most profound experiences, your perception of him being an asshole, a skeptic, a naysayer, and a cold-hearted-labcoat-wearin'-scientist would be so blind-sided that you'll lose your grip on reality... you'll begin doubting everything, including your sanity... and you'll wind up running down the street naked shouting "IT WAS ALL A LIE!! A LIE!! A TERRIBLE LIE!! ARRRRGGGGHH!!"... you'll be Baker Acted, strapped down, hauled to the nearest hospital, and injected with a double dose of thorazine. Maybe you like drooling on yourself and wearing diapers, but it would break Swami's fragile heart.
Really it would.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Smack31
Stranger
Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#763527 - 07/20/02 10:00 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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that post was colorful... thank you for enhancing my spiritual world
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#763626 - 07/20/02 11:24 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Ah... apparently masters of enlightenment have terribly low thresholds.
Makes sense, right?"
LOL..thanks, but i don't consider myself a master of enlightenment. However compard to you and swami I certainly am!
We are talking about the ability to access deeper states. Each human being will vary in his ability to access these states. Like we vary in everything else we do. You and swami can only access them to the extent you see a tree melt and go "wow...the tree just melted..like major brainfart dude". Others with a far greater aptitude and character can reach furthur than the superficial.
In essence, the people who can encounter entities are the equivalents of John Lennon in this area and you and swami are the equivalent of Billy Ray Cyrus.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
Edited by Alex123 (07/20/02 11:38 PM)
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#763814 - 07/21/02 04:13 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sclorch... you love defending Swami whenever you can don't you? wipe that shit off your nose buddy.
Sclorch and Swami sittin in a tree..
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#764131 - 07/21/02 08:16 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sclorch and Swami sittin in a tree..
And the tree is melting...
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#764330 - 07/21/02 10:10 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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When the question is asked and the only answers that will be accepted are those that fit the narrow paradigm of empirical science we are unable to answer the question as fully as possible. In other words, philosophy is a better tool to parse questions dealing with the spiritual nature of man than empirical science.
Here is the main problem as I see it with having no empirical knowledge, just a vague feeling of something more:
Lets make 2 opposing assumptions and examine them.
1. There is a God and a spiritual nature to man. We find ourselves facing a mortal illness.
We take comfort believing that a part of us continues after our corporeal body decomposes.
2. There is no God and no spiritual nature to man. We find ourselves facing a mortal illness.
The idea is too frightening to handle, so we make up a story about a God and an afterlife.
We take comfort believing that a part of us continues after our corporeal body decomposes.
Without any way to directly examine the beliefs regarding spirituality, I can determine NO WAY to differentiate which hypothesis is true. As Hypothesis 1. is the more complex model in that it makes large assumption, I lean heavily towards Hypothesis 2 until such evidence comes along to point me elsewhere.
I suppose it has something to do with the level of certitude that a person is comfortable with. There are very few things that are known with certitude. The Greeks used two words to describe different types of knowledge. The first one, episteme, meant knowledge with certitude. The law of non-contradiction in logic is an example. The second one, doxa, meant opinion, as in knowledge that could be revised with the addition of new facts.
I do not see how Hypothesis 1 is more complex or makes a large assumption. I think that the assumption in either hypothesis relies on our willingness to believe one or the other is true.
I would add to this the fact that most of the people in the world at all times present and past have had a dimension to their lives which was spiritual. Now that is not to say that all those billions of people are correct.
I am not setting myself up here as righteous or holy, but I cannot conceive of doing violence to another human being (unless directly threatened), yet many of those spiritual minions that you speak of believe whole-heartedly in war or at least allow it to exist.
Being spiritual does not equate with being moral and the fact that some believers are not moral does not make other believers immoral.
Questioning the existence of God is a relatively new phenomenon...
The history of this question in print may interest you, but the question is far from new, and when it originated is in no way helpful in coming to any conclusion.
Historical evidence is germane to the subject because it counts as much as facts do in inductive reasoning. The beginning of empirical reasoning was the factor that allowed people to more easily brush off the existence of God. People who believe in science make it episteme when it is only doxa.
I dissent from the opinion that there is nothing wrong with the scientific method if it is used to parse all the questions that can be asked.
My statement has been taken somewhat out of context. People pointed to past flaws in science and then blamed the scientific method. The method is not at fault, it is people favoring ideas even when contrarian evidence is shown.
I did not take your statement out of context though others might have. I added the necessary proviso to make my point. Philosophical questions cannot be answered by science.
Evolution nowadays is a religion. The true believers in it cannot even consider the possibility that it is not the whole truth or that there is something that science cannot answer. I pity them. They have half the truth.
I believe partly in the theory of evolution, but there are big, gaping holes that need to be further addressed. However, because they cannot yet (if ever) be answered does NOT mean that the void MUST be filled with mysticism.
That is correct, otherwise argumentum ad ignorantiam.
Lastly, there are philosophical arguments that strongly suggest the existence of an immaterial aspect to the side of man which opens the door to a spiritual side.
Apparently these arguments are not so strong as to sway me, and trust me, I have done tons of reading, meditating, fasting, pondering, introspecting, etc.
It is good that you have investigated the subject as much as you have. That is a lot better than blindly believing what others have told you. Of course, there is the chance that there is a philosophical argument that you haven't read that provides the necessary answer.
Well, this didn't come out as good as I had hoped.
Cheers,
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#764455 - 07/21/02 11:03 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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*checks nose... it's clean*
Alex123, are you trying to break my Achy, Breaky Heart?
You don't know what ad hominem means, do you?
It's okay, I won't hold it against you... I can't blame the ignorant.
(I really don't like doing this... I just feel that the best thing for your spiritual development is to humble you.)
As you know, we all vary in our perceptual apparatus, our ability to recognize patterns, and our knowledge base... I just never thought I'd run into someone so deficient in all three of those categories. I guess I can't really expect much thought from an infantile individual that resorts to childhood rhyming put-downs. I guess I could sink to your level and argue that you have "cooties" or whatever, but I'd feel embarassed... maybe if I hit the sauce real hard and hung out at a daycare center for a day, then there is a greater possibility that I'd take you up on your challenge to playground warfare.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#765118 - 07/21/02 04:01 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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"As you know, we all vary in our perceptual apparatus, our ability to recognize patterns, and our knowledge base... I just never thought I'd run into someone so deficient in all three of those categories. I guess I can't really expect much thought from an infantile individual that resorts to childhood rhyming put-downs. I guess I could sink to your level and argue that you have "cooties" or whatever, but I'd feel embarassed... maybe if I hit the sauce real hard and hung out at a daycare center for a day, then there is a greater possibility that I'd take you up on your challenge to playground warfare."
This is an example of an ad hominem.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: ]
#765183 - 07/21/02 04:18 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mr_Mushrooms: This is an example of an ad hominem.
I know... did you forget what I posted above?
Here it is again, in case you missed it:
Sclorch: Maybe we'll see some critical thinking soon (hey, the ad hom's been ruled fair).
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Anonymous
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#765200 - 07/21/02 04:22 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I didn't forget. I was trying to make it as obvious as possible.
Just trying to help.
Cheers,
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Sclorch]
#765723 - 07/21/02 06:50 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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You sound upset sclorch. Your deepest spiritual moment is seeing a tree melt. (Just after you came out of the piss trough at the sammy hagar concert)
Don't worry about it. Work on your character and maybe one day you might encounter entities too. Human beings spiritual development is on a bell curve, yours is currently at the spiritually retarded level.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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erectronik
newbie
Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 34
Loc: zeitung unter den See
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#765895 - 07/21/02 07:42 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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If alot of people at this board were contacted by aliens, they would fight them every step of the way.
Like some of the others here, I form beliefs based on experience. I have never had an experience involving aliens, therefore I have no belief in them. This says that my willingness to believe that which I see firsthand is strong. It is the condition of my belief in something. So, apparently you don't understand the nature of the criticism you're witnessing. You are close-minded to it, maybe?
As close-minded as this perhaps,
Don't worry about it. Work on your character and maybe one day you might encounter entities too. Human beings spiritual development is on a bell curve, yours is currently at the spiritually retarded level.
Some close-minded people, like the ones protesting that aliens exist, aren't satisfied with "spirituality" unless it involves actual spirits, with names, and special super powers that we wish we had, or beings with fantastic existences and a role in our destiny, a destiny with all the drama and excitement of a good hollywood flick.
Sorry, my spirituality is more "boring", it involves something within me that I can barely explain to my own satisfaction, but it involves who I am, how I look at happiness and my own destiny, and overall consists in the HERE and NOW, and PEOPLE I KNOW, and PEOPLE I MEET.
It is a boring movie about MY LIFE and things that actually effect me, when I'm sober or tripping. If anything hallucinogens have done for me, it's making my reality and my fantasy worlds harmonize.
The difference between me and you, is that my fantasies have done all the changing in order to make this marriage work.
I've learned to see my relationships with people as very important and perhaps as fantastic as the ones you're imagining with aliens.
People are enough for me to look at in wonder.
The sky and the trees are an amazing combination that I get to contemplate daily.
I don't find earth boring.
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"Hallucinogens can be like talking to a really talented salesman: beware of what you can sell yourself." - J.L.C.
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Blastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
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Posts: 3,323
Loc: The Desert
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#765920 - 07/21/02 07:51 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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it really seems like you keep missing the point and then just end up putting down another's level of spirituality.
point being if your spirituality level is above those who embrace logic in debates rather than insults, shouldn't your replies be filled with such love and compassion, rather than insults?
hope that made enough sense.
interesting putdowns to say the least, heh not something you would hear on a playground or a bar that's for sure.
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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
n. 3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'. Used as both an insult or an expletive.
ex. Blastrid!
Stereopattern <--My music.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: erectronik]
#766014 - 07/21/02 08:19 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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So, apparently you don't understand the nature of the criticism you're witnessing. You are close-minded to it, maybe?
I understand your point of view (I think). I don't think you SHOULD believe in aliens just because a few people on a mushroom message board say they've had experiences with them. But I also don't think you should disregard the idea as "impossible" just because you havn't had similar experiences. I don't care if you critisize my beliefs and opinions, as long as you do it constructively and somewhat respectively.
Some close-minded people, like the ones protesting that aliens exist
This is a pretty closed-minded statement in itself, is it not? Your saying that people who think aliens exist are closed-minded. Correct me if I'm misinterpeting you.
I've learned to see my relationships with people as very important and perhaps as fantastic as the ones you're imagining with aliens.
Again this seems a bit closed-minded by assuming that those who have experiences with aliens are just imagining it.
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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erectronik
newbie
Registered: 03/13/02
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Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: erectronik]
#766267 - 07/22/02 12:16 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the complement under all that heavy criticism, and I think there was substance to that weight.
Yes, I was putting another's spirituality down, but only in effect. I was also giving a detailed opinon. If anyone gets anything from that message, hopefully it will be the same as me saying, "Even if aliens existed, or ESP was possible, or God existed, or whatever else, I would have spirituality WITHOUT THEM."
I never claimed to have reached a height of compassion in my spirituality, just an awe of life. I think an embrace of logic would lead to compassion as a value, and I'm not sure that giving my opinion, honestly, even if it be in a conflict, wasn't totally uncompassionate. I think sharing my opinon was done as much to spread my happiness with life, as it was to criticize.
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"Hallucinogens can be like talking to a really talented salesman: beware of what you can sell yourself." - J.L.C.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Blastrid]
#766533 - 07/22/02 04:55 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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point being if your spirituality level is above those who embrace logic in debates rather than insults, shouldn't your replies be filled with such love and compassion, rather than insults?
Embraces logic? Are you serious? If he embraced logic I'd be happy as a sandboy. He embraces idiocy. When you've got someone ass-raping every thread with ignorance and boasting "Once again I destroy anyone who disputes me" you simply have to put them firmly in their place. It's for their own good.
Have you ever heard Bill Hicks Rant in E-minor? Bill was a very spiritually advanced guy and had an alien contact experience that permanently changed his worldview during a mushroom trip in 1987. He was also very impatient with stupidity and ignorance.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
Edited by Alex123 (07/22/02 07:48 AM)
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Blastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#768889 - 07/22/02 07:37 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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please show me evidence of this info about Bill Hicks.
Here's a great link: http://www.innuendocornecopria.com/BILLHICKS.htm
a pretty lengthly biography on Hicks, but doesn't say anything about that.
i agree that there are a lot who bash what they view as such a radical belief, but if you in turn bash them, how are you any better?
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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
n. 3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'. Used as both an insult or an expletive.
ex. Blastrid!
Stereopattern <--My music.
Edited by Blastrid (07/22/02 07:38 PM)
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Ganja_Farmer
Stranger
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Loc: Maryland
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Blastrid]
#768898 - 07/22/02 07:39 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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The act of overflowing cold mellons through the crevace of both letters will take a vitamin more useless clevage to seperate.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Blastrid]
#769574 - 07/23/02 04:34 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's in the book "American Scream" by Cynthia True available at amazon now...Bill also talks about it in an interview - he considered the alien experience utterly real and didn't like to say he was tripping at the time because people (like swami) wouldn't have taken it seriously. Bill explains how him and his friend both had the same alien experience and then the interviewer asks "Were you on anything?" and Bill goes "No".
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#769861 - 07/23/02 07:47 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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So we are supposed to know when old Bill is lying and when he is telling the truth?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#770124 - 07/23/02 09:31 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Steady on swami, don't be starting on Bill now...
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Blastrid
e l e m e n t al i t y
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 3,323
Loc: The Desert
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#770608 - 07/23/02 12:28 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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hey swami, does it ever seem like too many people in here don't know the difference between an insult and a counterargument?
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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
n. 3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'. Used as both an insult or an expletive.
ex. Blastrid!
Stereopattern <--My music.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Blastrid]
#771056 - 07/23/02 03:45 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Exactly.
1. Bill sez he saw aliens. (and claims he was telling the truth)
2. Bill sez he was not on any mind-altering substance (and claims that he was lying).
So he could just as easily be lying about statement 1. His profession is to SELL his writings, and alien stuff sells.
Take Whitley Streiber for example. He hadn't had a sci-fi or horror book sell in over a dozen years until he comes out with Communion & Transformation that popularize alien contact and become best sellers.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#771059 - 07/23/02 03:47 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think it very cool that Bill mentioned me in an interview.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#771543 - 07/23/02 06:42 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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So he could just as easily be lying about statement 1. His profession is to SELL his writings, and alien stuff sells.
WTF? Bill Hicks was a comedian. He didn't sell any writings.
Yet more ignorance. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you are so utterly clueless?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#771630 - 07/23/02 07:04 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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He didn't sell any writings.
Who can believe an admitted liar?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Xlea321]
#771655 - 07/23/02 07:15 PM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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The power of the seed of doubt is strong...
It turns counterpoints into insults... questions into blasphemy... the questioner into a heretic.
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#772302 - 07/24/02 04:38 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Swami, logic is only any use when you have knowledge to base it on. You tend to tie yourself up in logic with no knowledge. It's bizarre and faintly disturbing to see you do it.
However many psychedelics you took it clearly wasn't enough.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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LilMerlin
Life magicapprentice
Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 151
Loc: Europe.
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#772364 - 07/24/02 05:17 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Shamans say there are spirits. They say spirits help them cure people. And in some cases, they cure people that modern medicine cannot cure...
Since there are effects to their medicine, there must be some truth in what they say.
I never heard about greyish spirits in all my readings, but one can read the introduction of Harner's book: Shamanism and Hallucinogens; he writes about the reptilian kind.
Maria sabina says she drinks beer (bemushroomed, of course) with some entities (she sees them as the first statesmen of Mexico) who help her heal people.
Terence McKenna speaks with what he calls LOGOS. "The mushroom speaks to you if you speak to it." in Archaic Revival
Alan Shoemaker even defines the kind of spirits that can come to you while doing an ayahuasca session in the following article:
Beware! it's long.
It seems that people from different cultures visually (and intellectually) interpret the phenomenon differently, but still, it seems that the phenomenon exists and that shamans/curanderos know how to profit from it and obtain palpable results.
Even though everything said above might be doubted as scientifically *real*, one must make one's mind. And what if all of us tried to contact those (or any) entities in our next trip with the method given?
LilMerlin.
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"Five grams in silent darkness." T. McKenna
Why take more? Take different!
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: LilMerlin]
#772395 - 07/24/02 05:38 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Shamans say there are spirits. They say spirits help them cure people. And in some cases, they cure people that modern medicine cannot cure...
Perhaps, but in general, the health of third world shamanistic cultures is pretty poor and alcoholism is rampant in many. I am sure that you can come up with some unique anecdotes, however; the empirical evidence seems to provide a fairly strong case against your POV.
In most cases, western medicine (sans spirits) cures people that a drum and rattle fail to help.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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LilMerlin
Life magicapprentice
Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 151
Loc: Europe.
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#772428 - 07/24/02 05:54 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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In reply to:
In most cases, western medicine (sans spirits) cures people that a drum and rattle fail to help.
...perhaps.
Still friends?
LilMerlin.
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"Five grams in silent darkness." T. McKenna
Why take more? Take different!
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: The Aliens Are Here [Re: Swami]
#772529 - 07/24/02 06:53 AM (22 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh dear Swami, I see you quickly ignored the bulk of the post regarding entities.
Not surprising as it comprehensivly routs your ludicrous "It's only because they've seen Communion"
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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