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OfflineThanatos10
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Is life worth living?
    #23851106 - 11/20/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's something that I struggle with every day of my life so far. Waking up and wishing for none existence. No dreams, no life. Just nullity.

I know that life exists without reason. It has done so for thousands of years. Yet here we are as humans and wonder why stay alive? The answer of survival doesn't quite catch because then it's also opens the door to "why surivive"?

People tell me al the time that it's worth it, that things get better. But to me hope is a cruel thing to give. Waiting for better days and hoping things turn around when there isn't proof that they will. My future is pretty much nonexistent and I don't see why people bother to keep going on. Why struggle to stay breathing when death is easier? I just can't seem to accurately solve that issue.

I want death, but paradoxically I don't want to die. But I just can't seem to see what others see that makes life worth living. Why they bother to struggle through great difficulty rather than just die.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23851135 - 11/20/16 11:04 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The adage "It's greener on the other side of the fence" and it's corollary that we don't know for sure, applies. with experience, and some experimentation, I think otherwise=it isn't greener on the otherside of the fence except for the privileged.
If you're feeling down chances are your ego is wounded, that's all.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23851137 - 11/20/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Well, one answer is death anxiety.  I mean, the question of why species, including humans, don't just give up and keel over rather than pushing the stone up the mountain over and over, is answered in the fact that it is imperative for DNA to enable itself to survive, so that it can reproduce.  Every animal, from man to marmots to dinosaurs to sea urchins to bacteria, has a genetic drive to stay alive.  This ties into the concept of death anxiety, which I will not go into here other than to say that most of what you see in the world is driven by it.  The primary motivation for civilization to continue comes out of the drives to have as much sex as possible and avoid death at all costs.  It might seem irrational to someone with your unique perspective, Thanatos, but it's quite necessary.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23851259 - 11/20/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It seems odd then that if life wants to propagate itself that it would lead to creating humans who wonder why they should continue living. Life exists without reason yet humans end up being made wondering what the reason is and why they should go on.

Suicide just seems more attractive every day. People tell me it is. But if I am going to be honest, if I were given a choice between never existing and living knowing that my life would end up here I would choose oblivion. How can I find worth in life when everything humans say is worth living for are just arbitrary constructs. A good job, peace, helping others, spirituality, these seem to be the standard answers. But no one says why we should do any of that, why it's important. It's like we cast an illusion to believe life is worth the majority of the pain it brings.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #23851260 - 11/20/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanatos;

Projecting a suicidal inclination is a drole but effective way of getting attention. It riles up your audience.

Languishing in the kinds of thought that drive in this direction provides a complete sense of dark independence. It truly does not matter what other people think.

So you get both an opportunity to torment an audience, and a way to have complete self satisfaction with self determination that you could just kill yourself. All the related logic supports your Gordian knot of a suicidal solution to counter a meaningless life and sense of powerlessness - why not just implement a self determined action that nullifies everything?

I don't find the idea interesting, and I do not participate in the games of people dangling suicide for the purpose of attention and tormenting others.

The angel of death or any personification of death is metaphorical life's  endings. I am here for the middle of life, then when it ends I am not. Same with you, now with what do you want to fill your life? Seek help if you need it to change your direction.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23851278 - 11/20/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It seems like the natural course when one can't find worth in life.

It's not really attention, but this question has led to being somewhat suicidal. It's hard to ask this without people calling 911 and thinking you are sick and need help. But that just dodges having to answer the question.

You last statement also fails to answer why we should fill our lives with anything. It's doesn't answer why we should stay alive. In the weeks I have pondered this I cannnot find and answer as to why one should go on. From that it seems natural to want to die as living a life aware that it is simply out of biological need doesn't seem right.

I mean, we don't choose to exist. It is forced upon us. Our parents made the decision to throw us out here for themselves and we pick up the pieces trying to make sense of it all.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] * 2
    #23851362 - 11/20/16 12:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
why?




Compulsion, curiosity, compassion... sometimes these arise naturally and uncontrollably, at other times they must be cultivated.

What are you growing in your garden with these incessant questions?


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: DisoRDeR] * 1
    #23851447 - 11/20/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DisoRDeR said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
why?




Compulsion, curiosity, compassion... sometimes these arise naturally and uncontrollably, at other times they must be cultivated.

What are you growing in your garden with these incessant questions?





repost for truth.



Reminds of the Two Wolves parable.


--------------------
full blown human


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #23851451 - 11/20/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
It seems like the natural course when one can't find worth in life.

It's not really attention, but this question has led to being somewhat suicidal. It's hard to ask this without people calling 911 and thinking you are sick and need help. But that just dodges having to answer the question.

You last statement also fails to answer why we should fill our lives with anything. It's doesn't answer why we should stay alive. In the weeks I have pondered this I cannnot find and answer as to why one should go on. From that it seems natural to want to die as living a life aware that it is simply out of biological need doesn't seem right.

I mean, we don't choose to exist. It is forced upon us. Our parents made the decision to throw us out here for themselves and we pick up the pieces trying to make sense of it all.




there is no need to answer the question by anecdote or reference, because this is not a valid question, it is a challenge to get attention, you just think it is a valid question.

How about this one:
"what is the meaning of life?"

or this one:
"how many angels can stand on the head of a pin?"

any string of words can be linked to form what looks like a valid question but the meaning of the question is out of the frame of converssation, out of the frame of relationships, and out of the frame of what it is that we can do while conscious.


briefly, "life is an energetic self perpetuating process that has evolved from natural chemicals in our physical universe; meaning is associative resonance, the more associations you have with a thought form, the more meaning it has: i.e. if you have many memories with a blue bicycle then a blue bicycle is more meaningful to you."

otherwise words have dictionary meanings, and the potential of being translated, but the phrase "meaning of life" is absurd logically: each person has their own associations with the word and the idea, and the associations are endless, so life is the overall grab bag of all memories and of paramount meaning, infinite meaning. but the question is illogical.

similarly "what should I live for?" is an absurd question, no one can answer you "what" as if there is a consumerist list of things that you have to experience before dying.

Pursuing answers to absurd questions or  being deeply involved with them may seem clever but it is a bigger time waster than crossword puzzles and will ultimately have no benefit against alzheimer's either. (too repetitive)


--------------------
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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23851620 - 11/20/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
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Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23851694 - 11/20/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
It seems like the natural course when one can't find worth in life.

It's not really attention, but this question has led to being somewhat suicidal. It's hard to ask this without people calling 911 and thinking you are sick and need help. But that just dodges having to answer the question.

You last statement also fails to answer why we should fill our lives with anything. It's doesn't answer why we should stay alive. In the weeks I have pondered this I cannnot find and answer as to why one should go on. From that it seems natural to want to die as living a life aware that it is simply out of biological need doesn't seem right.

I mean, we don't choose to exist. It is forced upon us. Our parents made the decision to throw us out here for themselves and we pick up the pieces trying to make sense of it all.




there is no need to answer the question by anecdote or reference, because this is not a valid question, it is a challenge to get attention, you just think it is a valid question.

How about this one:
"what is the meaning of life?"

or this one:
"how many angels can stand on the head of a pin?"

any string of words can be linked to form what looks like a valid question but the meaning of the question is out of the frame of converssation, out of the frame of relationships, and out of the frame of what it is that we can do while conscious.


briefly, "life is an energetic self perpetuating process that has evolved from natural chemicals in our physical universe; meaning is associative resonance, the more associations you have with a thought form, the more meaning it has: i.e. if you have many memories with a blue bicycle then a blue bicycle is more meaningful to you."

otherwise words have dictionary meanings, and the potential of being translated, but the phrase "meaning of life" is absurd logically: each person has their own associations with the word and the idea, and the associations are endless, so life is the overall grab bag of all memories and of paramount meaning, infinite meaning. but the question is illogical.

similarly "what should I live for?" is an absurd question, no one can answer you "what" as if there is a consumerist list of things that you have to experience before dying.

Pursuing answers to absurd questions or  being deeply involved with them may seem clever but it is a bigger time waster than crossword puzzles and will ultimately have no benefit against alzheimer's either. (too repetitive)




But that doesn't answer the question as to why is life worth living. It's not absurd, it's what belies everything that we do. All we have is a bunch of subjective accounts that amount to little more than nothing in the end.

You might think it's not a valid question but I think you are wrong. We try so hard to stay alive and make up reasons we believe to be the reason for it. But upon closer examination we see those reasons are little more than air, or nothingness. It doesn't answer the question as to why we stay alive. Obviously we don't have to if you find people committing suicide. We say life is precious but don't say why it is that way.

Are you simply calling it absurd because it's just an easy dismissal without having to grapple with what it implies? That's what it seems like to me. No one I ask wants to tackle it.

People just give me the patsy answer that it's worth it and everything but when I press them they have nothing to back it up.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


Edited by Thanatos10 (11/20/16 02:41 PM)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #23851699 - 11/20/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DisoRDeR said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
why?




Compulsion, curiosity, compassion... sometimes these arise naturally and uncontrollably, at other times they must be cultivated.

What are you growing in your garden with these incessant questions?




What does that have to do with wondering if life is worth living?


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] * 3
    #23851730 - 11/20/16 02:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ah, another Thanatos thread.  :cookiemonster:


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisiblepachooDiscord
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #23851739 - 11/20/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Life is worth living if you find yourself a purpose in life itself. Without purpose what are you doing here? If you bother yourself and sit around asking other people for something you yourself have to figure out for yourself for your own life, then it will be meaningless to you. Everyone's answers are their own and it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with themselves. Even my answer here is my own dogma in living.

If life to you is cruel and punishing and you cannot find anything other meaning, then perhaps that is the meaning for you? Embrace it or find another answer. You don't have to embrace death but you can be happy acknowledging the pain that life offers you that you yourself allow upon you. There actually is happiness in pain and suffering. And I believe all people should accept it when it presents itself. If you choose to live in pain then that is your choice. If you feel at home with pain then that is your choice. If you disagree with the pain that is surrounding you then you must change it, and that is your choice.

Everything is energy, everything can be changed. It is never taken or given but it is morphed into your life and it can be transferred out.

I believe nothing has been thrust upon us without our own consent, including birth. The suffering we feel and the love we feel are our own choices from our own circumstances. We choose to sit in things or we choose to leave them.

Do you need advice in changing your circumstances? Are you happy with what you have been given? Do you find that you are stalling in your life or have you learned everything you need to know?

To answer your question, I find life to be worth living and the way I live and the answers I have found are perfect for me and useless to you.


--------------------


:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23851760 - 11/20/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
....We try so hard to stay alive and make up reasons we believe to be the reason for it. But upon closer examination we see those reasons are little more than air, or nothingness. It doesn't answer the question as to why we stay alive. Obviously we don't have to if you find people committing suicide. We say life is precious but don't say why it is that way...





we stay alive anyway, we fight to improve the quality of our lives and the lives of others.

if you don't make an effort to improve the quality of your life you can still stay alive without any fight at all, but it will become increasingly uncomfortable.

you can ask: "how do we stay alive even when we are totally perplexed and unhappy?"

but "why?" this is not a valid question, any attempt to answer it will be wrong headed and any answer will be easy to find full of artifice.

separately, speaking of precious, life is precious, because it only comes from other life, non-life does not easily make life. there is more non-life in the universe than life. and life is the opposite of entropy, it concentrates energy and recirculates it. This is very rare, and should be more obvious to you.

if people do not say why life is precious, it is because they don't understand this, but I have just told you, it is rare, it is not a commodity, but it is precious because it is rare and it holds back entropy like no other thing does, it embodies organization and participates in it.

some people think it is precious because of how they feel when looking at their children, but this is idiosyncratic to their own values and personal meaning... but life is special, more special than our brains are usually able to assimilate.


--------------------
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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23851818 - 11/20/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Life exists with the purpose of DNA translation but reason and meaning are constructed from what an individual values.

It's good to survive because you only have one chance to try it.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23851895 - 11/20/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
....We try so hard to stay alive and make up reasons we believe to be the reason for it. But upon closer examination we see those reasons are little more than air, or nothingness. It doesn't answer the question as to why we stay alive. Obviously we don't have to if you find people committing suicide. We say life is precious but don't say why it is that way...





we stay alive anyway, we fight to improve the quality of our lives and the lives of others.

if you don't make an effort to improve the quality of your life you can still stay alive without any fight at all, but it will become increasingly uncomfortable.

you can ask: "how do we stay alive even when we are totally perplexed and unhappy?"

but "why?" this is not a valid question, any attempt to answer it will be wrong headed and any answer will be easy to find full of artifice.

separately, speaking of precious, life is precious, because it only comes from other life, non-life does not easily make life. there is more non-life in the universe than life. and life is the opposite of entropy, it concentrates energy and recirculates it. This is very rare, and should be more obvious to you.

if people do not say why life is precious, it is because they don't understand this, but I have just told you, it is rare, it is not a commodity, but it is precious because it is rare and it holds back entropy like no other thing does, it embodies organization and participates in it.

some people think it is precious because of how they feel when looking at their children, but this is idiosyncratic to their own values and personal meaning... but life is special, more special than our brains are usually able to assimilate.




And despite how rare it is it seems that organisms live only to be consumed by others. There's much death to match life and I would say that it's not holding back entropy but slowly losing. Death wins out ultimately. Also it being precious isn't an objective fact, it's more of an opinion. Sure that's what life does but that doesn't make it precious. That's just human subjectivity.

But why improve our lives and others as well? Why struggle for something that eventually goes to dust? Why not just die? Why struggle for others?

You say such questions aren't valid and answering them is wrongheaded but you don't say why that is.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sudly]
    #23851899 - 11/20/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Life exists with the purpose of DNA translation but reason and meaning are constructed from what an individual values.

It's good to survive because you only have one chance to try it.




That doesn't answer why one should even try it to begin with.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23851929 - 11/20/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Kill yourself if your life is that shit but I don't take the chance to live for granted like you seem to do.

Maybe you just need to appreciate something in nature like a glowworm cave.
Life is precious because it exists.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinedeff
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] * 3
    #23851932 - 11/20/16 04:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I remember years ago when I first discovered Buddhism, I was attending talks by a Buddhist monk at a centre close to where I lived. At the time, I was waking up every morning feeling pretty low and not enjoying the job I was working at. This monk teacher would often mention things in his talks that seemed to directly address issues and questions I had, he seemed very intuitive with his talks. He said during one something like, if we wake up every morning feeling low and not wanting to go to work then it's a sign of not having enough merit (positive karma). And that if we work to cultivate positive qualities and help others, we would transform our experience of life. And sure enough, that happened for me, and is the best advice that comes to mind given your OP. Simply find a way to love others, be generous, help, celebrate the success of others, check your motivation frequently to ensure you act from a motivation of love. Over time, things can shift significantly. What you put out into the universe seems to come back - if you aren't sending love and assistance out then you likely won't get much back in the form of positive mood, inspiration, passion for life, etc. :smile: Something to ponder perhaps.


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