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Thanatos10
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Is life worth living?
#23851106 - 11/20/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's something that I struggle with every day of my life so far. Waking up and wishing for none existence. No dreams, no life. Just nullity.
I know that life exists without reason. It has done so for thousands of years. Yet here we are as humans and wonder why stay alive? The answer of survival doesn't quite catch because then it's also opens the door to "why surivive"?
People tell me al the time that it's worth it, that things get better. But to me hope is a cruel thing to give. Waiting for better days and hoping things turn around when there isn't proof that they will. My future is pretty much nonexistent and I don't see why people bother to keep going on. Why struggle to stay breathing when death is easier? I just can't seem to accurately solve that issue.
I want death, but paradoxically I don't want to die. But I just can't seem to see what others see that makes life worth living. Why they bother to struggle through great difficulty rather than just die.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23851135 - 11/20/16 11:04 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The adage "It's greener on the other side of the fence" and it's corollary that we don't know for sure, applies. with experience, and some experimentation, I think otherwise=it isn't greener on the otherside of the fence except for the privileged. If you're feeling down chances are your ego is wounded, that's all.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23851137 - 11/20/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, one answer is death anxiety. I mean, the question of why species, including humans, don't just give up and keel over rather than pushing the stone up the mountain over and over, is answered in the fact that it is imperative for DNA to enable itself to survive, so that it can reproduce. Every animal, from man to marmots to dinosaurs to sea urchins to bacteria, has a genetic drive to stay alive. This ties into the concept of death anxiety, which I will not go into here other than to say that most of what you see in the world is driven by it. The primary motivation for civilization to continue comes out of the drives to have as much sex as possible and avoid death at all costs. It might seem irrational to someone with your unique perspective, Thanatos, but it's quite necessary.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Thanatos10
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It seems odd then that if life wants to propagate itself that it would lead to creating humans who wonder why they should continue living. Life exists without reason yet humans end up being made wondering what the reason is and why they should go on.
Suicide just seems more attractive every day. People tell me it is. But if I am going to be honest, if I were given a choice between never existing and living knowing that my life would end up here I would choose oblivion. How can I find worth in life when everything humans say is worth living for are just arbitrary constructs. A good job, peace, helping others, spirituality, these seem to be the standard answers. But no one says why we should do any of that, why it's important. It's like we cast an illusion to believe life is worth the majority of the pain it brings.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23851260 - 11/20/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanatos;
Projecting a suicidal inclination is a drole but effective way of getting attention. It riles up your audience.
Languishing in the kinds of thought that drive in this direction provides a complete sense of dark independence. It truly does not matter what other people think.
So you get both an opportunity to torment an audience, and a way to have complete self satisfaction with self determination that you could just kill yourself. All the related logic supports your Gordian knot of a suicidal solution to counter a meaningless life and sense of powerlessness - why not just implement a self determined action that nullifies everything?
I don't find the idea interesting, and I do not participate in the games of people dangling suicide for the purpose of attention and tormenting others.
The angel of death or any personification of death is metaphorical life's endings. I am here for the middle of life, then when it ends I am not. Same with you, now with what do you want to fill your life? Seek help if you need it to change your direction.
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Thanatos10
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It seems like the natural course when one can't find worth in life.
It's not really attention, but this question has led to being somewhat suicidal. It's hard to ask this without people calling 911 and thinking you are sick and need help. But that just dodges having to answer the question.
You last statement also fails to answer why we should fill our lives with anything. It's doesn't answer why we should stay alive. In the weeks I have pondered this I cannnot find and answer as to why one should go on. From that it seems natural to want to die as living a life aware that it is simply out of biological need doesn't seem right.
I mean, we don't choose to exist. It is forced upon us. Our parents made the decision to throw us out here for themselves and we pick up the pieces trying to make sense of it all.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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DisoRDeR
motional



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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 2
#23851362 - 11/20/16 12:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: why?
Compulsion, curiosity, compassion... sometimes these arise naturally and uncontrollably, at other times they must be cultivated.
What are you growing in your garden with these incessant questions?
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Penelope_Tree
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: DisoRDeR] 1
#23851447 - 11/20/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DisoRDeR said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: why?
Compulsion, curiosity, compassion... sometimes these arise naturally and uncontrollably, at other times they must be cultivated.
What are you growing in your garden with these incessant questions?
repost for truth.
Reminds of the Two Wolves parable.
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full blown human
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23851451 - 11/20/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: It seems like the natural course when one can't find worth in life.
It's not really attention, but this question has led to being somewhat suicidal. It's hard to ask this without people calling 911 and thinking you are sick and need help. But that just dodges having to answer the question.
You last statement also fails to answer why we should fill our lives with anything. It's doesn't answer why we should stay alive. In the weeks I have pondered this I cannnot find and answer as to why one should go on. From that it seems natural to want to die as living a life aware that it is simply out of biological need doesn't seem right.
I mean, we don't choose to exist. It is forced upon us. Our parents made the decision to throw us out here for themselves and we pick up the pieces trying to make sense of it all.
there is no need to answer the question by anecdote or reference, because this is not a valid question, it is a challenge to get attention, you just think it is a valid question.
How about this one: "what is the meaning of life?"
or this one: "how many angels can stand on the head of a pin?"
any string of words can be linked to form what looks like a valid question but the meaning of the question is out of the frame of converssation, out of the frame of relationships, and out of the frame of what it is that we can do while conscious.
briefly, "life is an energetic self perpetuating process that has evolved from natural chemicals in our physical universe; meaning is associative resonance, the more associations you have with a thought form, the more meaning it has: i.e. if you have many memories with a blue bicycle then a blue bicycle is more meaningful to you."
otherwise words have dictionary meanings, and the potential of being translated, but the phrase "meaning of life" is absurd logically: each person has their own associations with the word and the idea, and the associations are endless, so life is the overall grab bag of all memories and of paramount meaning, infinite meaning. but the question is illogical.
similarly "what should I live for?" is an absurd question, no one can answer you "what" as if there is a consumerist list of things that you have to experience before dying.
Pursuing answers to absurd questions or being deeply involved with them may seem clever but it is a bigger time waster than crossword puzzles and will ultimately have no benefit against alzheimer's either. (too repetitive)
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beforethedawn
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-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: It seems like the natural course when one can't find worth in life.
It's not really attention, but this question has led to being somewhat suicidal. It's hard to ask this without people calling 911 and thinking you are sick and need help. But that just dodges having to answer the question.
You last statement also fails to answer why we should fill our lives with anything. It's doesn't answer why we should stay alive. In the weeks I have pondered this I cannnot find and answer as to why one should go on. From that it seems natural to want to die as living a life aware that it is simply out of biological need doesn't seem right.
I mean, we don't choose to exist. It is forced upon us. Our parents made the decision to throw us out here for themselves and we pick up the pieces trying to make sense of it all.
there is no need to answer the question by anecdote or reference, because this is not a valid question, it is a challenge to get attention, you just think it is a valid question.
How about this one: "what is the meaning of life?"
or this one: "how many angels can stand on the head of a pin?"
any string of words can be linked to form what looks like a valid question but the meaning of the question is out of the frame of converssation, out of the frame of relationships, and out of the frame of what it is that we can do while conscious.
briefly, "life is an energetic self perpetuating process that has evolved from natural chemicals in our physical universe; meaning is associative resonance, the more associations you have with a thought form, the more meaning it has: i.e. if you have many memories with a blue bicycle then a blue bicycle is more meaningful to you."
otherwise words have dictionary meanings, and the potential of being translated, but the phrase "meaning of life" is absurd logically: each person has their own associations with the word and the idea, and the associations are endless, so life is the overall grab bag of all memories and of paramount meaning, infinite meaning. but the question is illogical.
similarly "what should I live for?" is an absurd question, no one can answer you "what" as if there is a consumerist list of things that you have to experience before dying.
Pursuing answers to absurd questions or being deeply involved with them may seem clever but it is a bigger time waster than crossword puzzles and will ultimately have no benefit against alzheimer's either. (too repetitive)
But that doesn't answer the question as to why is life worth living. It's not absurd, it's what belies everything that we do. All we have is a bunch of subjective accounts that amount to little more than nothing in the end.
You might think it's not a valid question but I think you are wrong. We try so hard to stay alive and make up reasons we believe to be the reason for it. But upon closer examination we see those reasons are little more than air, or nothingness. It doesn't answer the question as to why we stay alive. Obviously we don't have to if you find people committing suicide. We say life is precious but don't say why it is that way.
Are you simply calling it absurd because it's just an easy dismissal without having to grapple with what it implies? That's what it seems like to me. No one I ask wants to tackle it.
People just give me the patsy answer that it's worth it and everything but when I press them they have nothing to back it up.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
Edited by Thanatos10 (11/20/16 02:41 PM)
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Thanatos10
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: DisoRDeR]
#23851699 - 11/20/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DisoRDeR said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: why?
Compulsion, curiosity, compassion... sometimes these arise naturally and uncontrollably, at other times they must be cultivated.
What are you growing in your garden with these incessant questions?
What does that have to do with wondering if life is worth living?
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 3
#23851730 - 11/20/16 02:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ah, another Thanatos thread.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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pachoo
Witchakookoo


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23851739 - 11/20/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Life is worth living if you find yourself a purpose in life itself. Without purpose what are you doing here? If you bother yourself and sit around asking other people for something you yourself have to figure out for yourself for your own life, then it will be meaningless to you. Everyone's answers are their own and it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with themselves. Even my answer here is my own dogma in living.
If life to you is cruel and punishing and you cannot find anything other meaning, then perhaps that is the meaning for you? Embrace it or find another answer. You don't have to embrace death but you can be happy acknowledging the pain that life offers you that you yourself allow upon you. There actually is happiness in pain and suffering. And I believe all people should accept it when it presents itself. If you choose to live in pain then that is your choice. If you feel at home with pain then that is your choice. If you disagree with the pain that is surrounding you then you must change it, and that is your choice.
Everything is energy, everything can be changed. It is never taken or given but it is morphed into your life and it can be transferred out.
I believe nothing has been thrust upon us without our own consent, including birth. The suffering we feel and the love we feel are our own choices from our own circumstances. We choose to sit in things or we choose to leave them.
Do you need advice in changing your circumstances? Are you happy with what you have been given? Do you find that you are stalling in your life or have you learned everything you need to know?
To answer your question, I find life to be worth living and the way I live and the answers I have found are perfect for me and useless to you.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23851760 - 11/20/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: ....We try so hard to stay alive and make up reasons we believe to be the reason for it. But upon closer examination we see those reasons are little more than air, or nothingness. It doesn't answer the question as to why we stay alive. Obviously we don't have to if you find people committing suicide. We say life is precious but don't say why it is that way...
we stay alive anyway, we fight to improve the quality of our lives and the lives of others.
if you don't make an effort to improve the quality of your life you can still stay alive without any fight at all, but it will become increasingly uncomfortable.
you can ask: "how do we stay alive even when we are totally perplexed and unhappy?"
but "why?" this is not a valid question, any attempt to answer it will be wrong headed and any answer will be easy to find full of artifice.
separately, speaking of precious, life is precious, because it only comes from other life, non-life does not easily make life. there is more non-life in the universe than life. and life is the opposite of entropy, it concentrates energy and recirculates it. This is very rare, and should be more obvious to you.
if people do not say why life is precious, it is because they don't understand this, but I have just told you, it is rare, it is not a commodity, but it is precious because it is rare and it holds back entropy like no other thing does, it embodies organization and participates in it.
some people think it is precious because of how they feel when looking at their children, but this is idiosyncratic to their own values and personal meaning... but life is special, more special than our brains are usually able to assimilate.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23851818 - 11/20/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Life exists with the purpose of DNA translation but reason and meaning are constructed from what an individual values.
It's good to survive because you only have one chance to try it.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: ....We try so hard to stay alive and make up reasons we believe to be the reason for it. But upon closer examination we see those reasons are little more than air, or nothingness. It doesn't answer the question as to why we stay alive. Obviously we don't have to if you find people committing suicide. We say life is precious but don't say why it is that way...
we stay alive anyway, we fight to improve the quality of our lives and the lives of others.
if you don't make an effort to improve the quality of your life you can still stay alive without any fight at all, but it will become increasingly uncomfortable.
you can ask: "how do we stay alive even when we are totally perplexed and unhappy?"
but "why?" this is not a valid question, any attempt to answer it will be wrong headed and any answer will be easy to find full of artifice.
separately, speaking of precious, life is precious, because it only comes from other life, non-life does not easily make life. there is more non-life in the universe than life. and life is the opposite of entropy, it concentrates energy and recirculates it. This is very rare, and should be more obvious to you.
if people do not say why life is precious, it is because they don't understand this, but I have just told you, it is rare, it is not a commodity, but it is precious because it is rare and it holds back entropy like no other thing does, it embodies organization and participates in it.
some people think it is precious because of how they feel when looking at their children, but this is idiosyncratic to their own values and personal meaning... but life is special, more special than our brains are usually able to assimilate.
And despite how rare it is it seems that organisms live only to be consumed by others. There's much death to match life and I would say that it's not holding back entropy but slowly losing. Death wins out ultimately. Also it being precious isn't an objective fact, it's more of an opinion. Sure that's what life does but that doesn't make it precious. That's just human subjectivity.
But why improve our lives and others as well? Why struggle for something that eventually goes to dust? Why not just die? Why struggle for others?
You say such questions aren't valid and answering them is wrongheaded but you don't say why that is.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sudly]
#23851899 - 11/20/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Life exists with the purpose of DNA translation but reason and meaning are constructed from what an individual values.
It's good to survive because you only have one chance to try it.
That doesn't answer why one should even try it to begin with.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23851929 - 11/20/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Kill yourself if your life is that shit but I don't take the chance to live for granted like you seem to do.
Maybe you just need to appreciate something in nature like a glowworm cave. Life is precious because it exists.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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deff
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 3
#23851932 - 11/20/16 04:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I remember years ago when I first discovered Buddhism, I was attending talks by a Buddhist monk at a centre close to where I lived. At the time, I was waking up every morning feeling pretty low and not enjoying the job I was working at. This monk teacher would often mention things in his talks that seemed to directly address issues and questions I had, he seemed very intuitive with his talks. He said during one something like, if we wake up every morning feeling low and not wanting to go to work then it's a sign of not having enough merit (positive karma). And that if we work to cultivate positive qualities and help others, we would transform our experience of life. And sure enough, that happened for me, and is the best advice that comes to mind given your OP. Simply find a way to love others, be generous, help, celebrate the success of others, check your motivation frequently to ensure you act from a motivation of love. Over time, things can shift significantly. What you put out into the universe seems to come back - if you aren't sending love and assistance out then you likely won't get much back in the form of positive mood, inspiration, passion for life, etc. Something to ponder perhaps.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: deff]
#23851943 - 11/20/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Life is 100% worth living. Dying is inevitable, so suicide is pointless. Enjoi this mystery and chance to be. Think about it, if you knew you would die for sure in 2 days, wouldnt you go out and life like you really wanted to? without regrets and fears or anyting to hold you back? because , hey!, im gone in 2 days anyways! So its of no consequence to stay around and do anything I can dream up! haha its so lovely when you think about it that way , and thats basically what will happen but in an unkown but gaurenteed amount of time! So go run butt naked across the globe and freeze to death , or anything but suicide. Suicide is done only by very sick unfortunately.
Edited by The Blind Ass (11/20/16 04:11 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23851977 - 11/20/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Why struggle for something that eventually goes to dust? Why not just die? Why struggle for others?
well either YOU VALUE entropy, or YOU VALUE this little thing we have while thumbing our noses at entropy.
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:You say such questions aren't valid and answering them is wrongheaded but you don't say why that is.
I think asking these questions shows an obsession with your cognitive illusion that life should have a purpose other than being life, and that life without such purpose has no inherent value. Tools have purpose, we are not tools.
A magician's trick will direct your attention away from the actual matter, and then voila, your deceived eyes perceive magic.
These questions consume you but you can choose if you want to be consumed. This is what you are filling your life with. Is it beneficial to yourself or others? Is it breaking new philosophical landscapes? Do you love cognitive illusion? Do you have to be a tool?
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wicca mixer
Marmalade, I like marmalade :)



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Magic mushrooms and cannabis alone are something that makes life living. I think life continues after death but I doubt it is anything like a story that unfolds, as human lives seem to. To me the modern life (pax romana/roman peace, western society, corporate bullshit etc) is not worth living but at the same time there is the natural world here which has always been here, and is something very special and sometimes magical if you have the eye for it. Myself, I try to focus more on the natural world and the internal world. I find my own path while putting up with the fake overlay modern western world like it's fleas on my back.
As the old saying goes 'life is what you make it', and if someone else is making it for you (society and it's fashions and ways) then you're never going to feel fulfilled. I try to live each day in defiance of the satan like parasitical system them is increasingly trying to control our thoughts and dreams (and every aspect of our lives).
Life is worth living if you can find things to live for. Love is a big reason to live, and I don't particularly mean the romance type of love. I mean the universal type of love that sometimes people feel overwhelmed with on magic mushrooms. Some may call it Gods love.
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beforethedawn
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What you're expressing, Thanatos, is a state of mind. You are not expressing your thoughts on reality. Reality could be anything, and it changes with your state of mind.
Try to get in a better frame of mind. Then see if your worries, doubts, complications, are anything other than depressed cognition...
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852057 - 11/20/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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If it's totally static, same shit different day, and you have no desire to recreate....... I'd consider you to be wasting your life.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
wicca mixer said: Magic mushrooms and cannabis alone are something that makes life living. I think life continues after death but I doubt it is anything like a story that unfolds, as human lives seem to. To me the modern life (pax romana/roman peace, western society, corporate bullshit etc) is not worth living but at the same time there is the natural world here which has always been here, and is something very special and sometimes magical if you have the eye for it. Myself, I try to focus more on the natural world and the internal world. I find my own path while putting up with the fake overlay modern western world like it's fleas on my back.
As the old saying goes 'life is what you make it', and if someone else is making it for you (society and it's fashions and ways) then you're never going to feel fulfilled. I try to live each day in defiance of the satan like parasitical system them is increasingly trying to control our thoughts and dreams (and every aspect of our lives).
Life is worth living if you can find things to live for. Love is a big reason to live, and I don't particularly mean the romance type of love. I mean the universal type of love that sometimes people feel overwhelmed with on magic mushrooms. Some may call it Gods love.
Nice thoughts. Right now I'm chowing hard on an early Thanksgiving dinner so am feeling quite "fulfilled". Taking the effort to cook a turkey on the grill and mashed potatoes and cranberry sauce and asparagus which was on sale yet wonderful looking, I find it worthwhile. Now I have meals for a few days, yum.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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nk122
Grower


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you will find something in your life you enjoy worth living for.........
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: nk122]
#23852131 - 11/20/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know, it seems somebody can value their own view point over countless positive impressions they could be having...... That could last a life time if not dealt with....
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#23852160 - 11/20/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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you mean like eyore?
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_ 🧠 _
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#23852301 - 11/20/16 06:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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eeyore is my spirit animal
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: quinn]
#23852320 - 11/20/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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OP:Only the selfish sense of entitlement allows one to throw a way a gift so many would die for.
You live so you can ask why you shouldn't.....I don't get it.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: pineninja]
#23852464 - 11/20/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: OP:Only the selfish sense of entitlement allows one to throw a way a gift so many would die for.
You live so you can ask why you shouldn't.....I don't get it.
I ask why we should stay alive. Life isn't a gift or a curse but a situation that we are forced into by our parents. Life after that is just a struggle once you're an adult. A struggle to eat and live, because why? We fear death? What if we didn't? Why bother staying alive at all?
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Life is 100% worth living. Dying is inevitable, so suicide is pointless. Enjoi this mystery and chance to be. Think about it, if you knew you would die for sure in 2 days, wouldnt you go out and life like you really wanted to? without regrets and fears or anyting to hold you back? because , hey!, im gone in 2 days anyways! So its of no consequence to stay around and do anything I can dream up! haha its so lovely when you think about it that way , and thats basically what will happen but in an unkown but gaurenteed amount of time! So go run butt naked across the globe and freeze to death , or anything but suicide. Suicide is done only by very sick unfortunately.
If I was going to die in two days I would be counting the hours until oblivion.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: deff]
#23852482 - 11/20/16 07:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: I remember years ago when I first discovered Buddhism, I was attending talks by a Buddhist monk at a centre close to where I lived. At the time, I was waking up every morning feeling pretty low and not enjoying the job I was working at. This monk teacher would often mention things in his talks that seemed to directly address issues and questions I had, he seemed very intuitive with his talks. He said during one something like, if we wake up every morning feeling low and not wanting to go to work then it's a sign of not having enough merit (positive karma). And that if we work to cultivate positive qualities and help others, we would transform our experience of life. And sure enough, that happened for me, and is the best advice that comes to mind given your OP. Simply find a way to love others, be generous, help, celebrate the success of others, check your motivation frequently to ensure you act from a motivation of love. Over time, things can shift significantly. What you put out into the universe seems to come back - if you aren't sending love and assistance out then you likely won't get much back in the form of positive mood, inspiration, passion for life, etc. Something to ponder perhaps.
Funny you should say that because I don't find people very tolerable. Or they bore me. By the way that doesn't answer why we should stay alive or do any of that really.
I also learned that what you put out doesn't get put back to you. The universe is just a great void that doesn't care for what happens within. People who do good don't get the same and deceivers prosper. You don't always get your dues and that's life. Outside the insulated lives we live the natural world is a fierce bloodbath. Where death is common and the creatures don't blink at the fact.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Why struggle for something that eventually goes to dust? Why not just die? Why struggle for others?
well either YOU VALUE entropy, or YOU VALUE this little thing we have while thumbing our noses at entropy.
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:You say such questions aren't valid and answering them is wrongheaded but you don't say why that is.
I think asking these questions shows an obsession with your cognitive illusion that life should have a purpose other than being life, and that life without such purpose has no inherent value. Tools have purpose, we are not tools.
A magician's trick will direct your attention away from the actual matter, and then voila, your deceived eyes perceive magic.
These questions consume you but you can choose if you want to be consumed. This is what you are filling your life with. Is it beneficial to yourself or others? Is it breaking new philosophical landscapes? Do you love cognitive illusion? Do you have to be a tool?
If it has no purpose they why does it exist or have to continue to exist?
What happens to others doesn't matter to me, and who cares about breaking philosophical ground (and exercise in futility I personally think)? What good is any of that if one can't answer why one should keep living? Why one should stay alive? All other questions are meaningless to those.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852492 - 11/20/16 07:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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God damn dude I am getting some sad vibes from you.

If you don't fear death then eat 20g of dried magic mushrooms before you go because if you want to succeed in life you have to put in effort equal to looking for diamonds in a pool of shit.
I live because I want to.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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deff
just love everyone



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Posts: 9,406
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852498 - 11/20/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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how do you know death = oblivion? to me, that there is life (and consciousness) at all is strange enough for me to think that there might be more beyond death. I think it is easy to become tricked by what we think we know - in a sense, incomplete (or inaccurate) knowledge can become a more extreme form of ignorance than simply acknowledging we don't know. 
Quote:
Funny you should say that because I don't find people very tolerable. Or they bore me.
You can always find other things to serve - animals and nature for instance. I think the more we remain isolated to our own small bubble of self-concern, the more miserable we are. When we expand our concern to beings outside our little bubbles, our energy expands - and that spaciousness can be filled with much joy.
Quote:
By the way that doesn't answer why we should stay alive or do any of that really.
If life is joyful and personally meaningful to you (which is different than knowing some objective meaning outside yourself), then the thought of 'why live?' doesn't come up, instead 'why die?' might I think Also, don't expect the conceptual mind to know reasons for life, the conceptual mind is very blind to truth - it just knows remembered facts and takes calculated guesses. Instead we have other aspects of our being too - like what is called the heart (not the physical organ so much as the center of inner sensitivity and love). When we become overly fixated on only what the conceptual mind can know, then we are very limited and the problems you present will come up. The mind is blind, it can only reflect the awareness of the heart - much like how the moon doesn't create light, it only reflects the sun's light But to the mind alone, this will seem ridiculous I imagine...
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
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Quote:
beforethedawn said: What you're expressing, Thanatos, is a state of mind. You are not expressing your thoughts on reality. Reality could be anything, and it changes with your state of mind.
Although you are correct here, Thanatos considers himself to be a decaying physical body living in a material world. His grip on this delusion is exceptional; he will not listen to any argument against it, no matter (ha) how logical.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: viktor]
#23852501 - 11/20/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Become the fertiliser you were meant to be Thanatos.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sudly]
#23852507 - 11/20/16 07:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: God damn dude I am getting some sad vibes from you.

If you don't fear death then eat 20g of dried magic mushrooms before you go because if you want to succeed in life you have to put in effort equal to looking for diamonds in a pool of shit.
I live because I want to.
That doesn't answer why we should bother to do that. In fact that's actually a case against living. Too much bad and far too little good to justify it all.
Also there is a difference between not fearing death and seeking it out.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: viktor]
#23852512 - 11/20/16 07:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
beforethedawn said: What you're expressing, Thanatos, is a state of mind. You are not expressing your thoughts on reality. Reality could be anything, and it changes with your state of mind.
Although you are correct here, Thanatos considers himself to be a decaying physical body living in a material world. His grip on this delusion is exceptional; he will not listen to any argument against it, no matter (ha) how logical.
That's statement alone is reason enough to discount your words.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852514 - 11/20/16 07:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
pineninja said: OP:Only the selfish sense of entitlement allows one to throw a way a gift so many would die for.
You live so you can ask why you shouldn't.....I don't get it.
I ask why we should stay alive. Life isn't a gift or a curse but a situation that we are forced into by our parents. Life after that is just a struggle once you're an adult. A struggle to eat and live, because why? We fear death? What if we didn't? Why bother staying alive at all?
Stand in a terminal ward for a day then get back to me.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852519 - 11/20/16 07:26 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
sudly said: God damn dude I am getting some sad vibes from you.

If you don't fear death then eat 20g of dried magic mushrooms before you go because if you want to succeed in life you have to put in effort equal to looking for diamonds in a pool of shit.
I live because I want to.
That doesn't answer why we should bother to do that. In fact that's actually a case against living. Too much bad and far too little good to justify it all.
Also there is a difference between not fearing death and seeking it out.
Then accept there's good and bad in life.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: deff]
#23852522 - 11/20/16 07:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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deff said: how do you know death = oblivion? to me, that there is life (and consciousness) at all is strange enough for me to think that there might be more beyond death. I think it is easy to become tricked by what we think we know - in a sense, incomplete (or inaccurate) knowledge can become a more extreme form of ignorance than simply acknowledging we don't know. 
Quote:
Funny you should say that because I don't find people very tolerable. Or they bore me.
You can always find other things to serve - animals and nature for instance. I think the more we remain isolated to our own small bubble of self-concern, the more miserable we are. When we expand our concern to beings outside our little bubbles, our energy expands - and that spaciousness can be filled with much joy.
Quote:
By the way that doesn't answer why we should stay alive or do any of that really.
If life is joyful and personally meaningful to you (which is different than knowing some objective meaning outside yourself), then the thought of 'why live?' doesn't come up, instead 'why die?' might I think Also, don't expect the conceptual mind to know reasons for life, the conceptual mind is very blind to truth - it just knows remembered facts and takes calculated guesses. Instead we have other aspects of our being too - like what is called the heart (not the physical organ so much as the center of inner sensitivity and love). When we become overly fixated on only what the conceptual mind can know, then we are very limited and the problems you present will come up. The mind is blind, it can only reflect the awareness of the heart - much like how the moon doesn't create light, it only reflects the sun's light But to the mind alone, this will seem ridiculous I imagine...
Once again you fail to answer why one should do any of that. Why should we care about anything else really? And mysticism seems like something for people who want the easy out. Conceptual mind, psh.
You are also incorrect about saying why die if life is enjoyable. I think people can enjoy it because they don't question why they should keep it up. The more they question it the more they find the joy eroding away as they fail to answer it.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sudly]
#23852528 - 11/20/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
sudly said: God damn dude I am getting some sad vibes from you.

If you don't fear death then eat 20g of dried magic mushrooms before you go because if you want to succeed in life you have to put in effort equal to looking for diamonds in a pool of shit.
I live because I want to.
That doesn't answer why we should bother to do that. In fact that's actually a case against living. Too much bad and far too little good to justify it all.
Also there is a difference between not fearing death and seeking it out.
Then accept there's good and bad in life.

There's too much bad and not enough good. We foolishly believe those moments of 10% make the rest bearable but that sounds like fooling yourself
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Posts: 2,770
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: pineninja]
#23852530 - 11/20/16 07:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
pineninja said: OP:Only the selfish sense of entitlement allows one to throw a way a gift so many would die for.
You live so you can ask why you shouldn't.....I don't get it.
I ask why we should stay alive. Life isn't a gift or a curse but a situation that we are forced into by our parents. Life after that is just a struggle once you're an adult. A struggle to eat and live, because why? We fear death? What if we didn't? Why bother staying alive at all?
Stand in a terminal ward for a day then get back to me.
I wish I could take their place honestly.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852537 - 11/20/16 07:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Once again you fail to answer why one should do any of that. Why should we care about anything else really?
there are other motivations besides just conceptual meaning in the head - there is also motivation through feeling, through inner guidance - which doesn't always translate into some meaningful concept explaining the casual relationship it represents. why does a flower bloom? does it first think up a good reason of why it should, or is it just an inner inclination? I think human life can be the same way. That said, I don't think it's wrong to question like you are, but I hope that such questioning eventually reveals to you the limitations of the mind, and impels you to find a new solution rather than depressed nihilism 
Quote:
And mysticism seems like something for people who want the easy out.
I would say killing yourself is more of an escapist approach than mysticism. to me, mysticism gets to the heart of what is happening to you right now, rather than escaping it. and if it's easy, all the better why value difficult things?
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23852544 - 11/20/16 07:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Then what the fuck do you want? A diamond dildo?
Jesus dude, are you not satisfied by anything?
Try to put things in perspective, we truly do live in a heaven on Earth in a hell that is the Universe.
Life can't survive outside our atmosphere.(except in spaceships and tardigrades)
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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pachoo
Witchakookoo


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 7,135
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23852551 - 11/20/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you think there is too much bad, why not project the good yourself? Why do you want others to do the work for you? Do it yourself.
If you think you are doing good and then come here and I read all these negative threads and responses from you, you are not living that way but acting.
Be the good. Find something you feel a purpose with and be the good with that.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23852553 - 11/20/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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forget about purpose unless you are talking about a tool people do not have purpose, we have what we make of life, sometimes using tools during our making...
whoever told you that you need purpose is making you a slave or a tool. and stop blaming your parents, they are as clueless as you are.
find something of interest other than the dreary meaninglessness performance
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: deff]
#23852556 - 11/20/16 07:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
Quote:
Once again you fail to answer why one should do any of that. Why should we care about anything else really?
there are other motivations besides just conceptual meaning in the head - there is also motivation through feeling, through inner guidance - which doesn't always translate into some meaningful concept explaining the casual relationship it represents. why does a flower bloom? does it first think up a good reason of why it should, or is it just an inner inclination? I think human life can be the same way. That said, I don't think it's wrong to question like you are, but I hope that such questioning eventually reveals to you the limitations of the mind, and impels you to find a new solution rather than depressed nihilism 
Quote:
And mysticism seems like something for people who want the easy out.
I would say killing yourself is more of an escapist approach than mysticism. to me, mysticism gets to the heart of what is happening to you right now, rather than escaping it. and if it's easy, all the better why value difficult things? 
Because mysticism doesn't answer questions. It's just belief without proof and that doesn't fly. Feelings are the basest level of interpreting reality and it's why we have a mind to override them.
Plus it fails when tested. But people like mysticism because it doesn't require effort.
There is nothing else but the mind. What my question has shown so far is that everything people have made up to justify living further is just and illusion or a lie. It doesn't hold up. Spiritually tries to coast by on not being mental only because when examined it doesn't hold up.
But spirituality still doesn't answer why one should stay alive. Just because a flower blooms doesn't mean it should. It doesn't mean it should exist either.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: pachoo]
#23852560 - 11/20/16 07:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pachoo said: If you think there is too much bad, why not project the good yourself? Why do you want others to do the work for you? Do it yourself.
If you think you are doing good and then come here and I read all these negative threads and responses from you, you are not living that way but acting.
Be the good. Find something you feel a purpose with and be the good with that.
Again that fails to address the question of why should one do that. Why bother?
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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pachoo
Witchakookoo


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 7,135
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: find something of interest other than the dreary meaninglessness performance
I see that as a kind of purpose... It's your own purpose. And it can change all the time or stay the same. I do not think it makes people a slave or a tool if it is fulfilling to them. If it becomes unfulfilling you change it. Change is the only constant. Growth is the goal. Sometimes we make it sometimes we don't.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sudly]
#23852565 - 11/20/16 07:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Then what the fuck do you want? A diamond dildo?
Jesus dude, are you not satisfied by anything?
Try to put things in perspective, we truly do live in a heaven on Earth in a hell that is the Universe.
Life can't survive outside our atmosphere.(except in spaceships and tardigrades)

We have minds developed enough to wonder why we are even alive and why we should keep going anyway. That's a curse not a gift. Earth isn't heaven either. Nature is a vicious struggle to survive.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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pachoo
Witchakookoo


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 7,135
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852567 - 11/20/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Again that fails to address the question of why should one do that. Why bother?
Then why complain or mention it? I can't help you with your own riddles. You find your own answer.
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 3 hours, 32 minutes
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852569 - 11/20/16 07:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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perhaps there is a solution that would satisfy your mind that you haven't encountered. but so long as you stay trapped in only relying on the mind, then you will miss the bigger picture. who is looking out through your eyes right now? send love to that one 
as for these threads... I think you should examine to yourself if it is at all possible for you to change your point of view. if you don't see yourself opening to a new perspective - if you think it is impossible - then what are you doing posting here? what is your motivation? because I don't see much practical value coming from posting these threads for you, other than you cementing your beliefs that life is meaningless. remain skeptical to yourself, remain open. perhaps you aren't seeing the big picture
--------------------
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Things with out a purpose have no reason to exist. It's that simple. People who live without purpose become sucidcal, life becomes dull. People need a purpose to strive for. But they don't realize that no matter what they decide it all turns to ash in the end. It's the same as dying.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: deff]
#23852577 - 11/20/16 07:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: perhaps there is a solution that would satisfy your mind that you haven't encountered. but so long as you stay trapped in only relying on the mind, then you will miss the bigger picture. who is looking out through your eyes right now? send love to that one 
as for these threads... I think you should examine to yourself if it is at all possible for you to change your point of view. if you don't see yourself opening to a new perspective - if you think it is impossible - then what are you doing posting here? what is your motivation? because I don't see much practical value coming from posting these threads for you, other than you cementing your beliefs that life is meaningless. remain skeptical to yourself, remain open. perhaps you aren't seeing the big picture 
The big picture is that life is meaningless. It exists without reason and will continue to long after we are gone. Humans, being fragile, assign importance to aspects of their lives to weave some kind of veil that makes life tolerable. Given how psychologically frail we are it makes sense. We weave an entire world to make it feel like we matter but looking outside the human perspective you see it's all for naught.
I'm looking for answers as to why people believe live is worth living and why one should continue to live. Because when I look at nature I see the absurd. It exists without reason and continues to do so even despite past extinction events
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23852579 - 11/20/16 07:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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you know nothing
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
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Loc: The Primordial Mind
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In Dzogchen, the metaphor most commonly used to describe our situation is that of a mirror and its reflections. The reflections in a mirror are like the thoughts in our mind, which if we don't recognize as being an illusory, impermanent, unmediated, manifestation of our true nature, we will react to, identify with, become conditioned by, absorbed in and embody. Our true nature state, on the other hand, is likened to the mirror itself, which underlies and embraces all of the reflections, all the while remaining pure and changeless, never being tainted or stained by any of the reflections. It is important to realize that each thought in our mind is like a dream; once we become absorbed in a thought, we have literally entered a complete dream universe and have evoked and stepped into an illusory, limited and arbitrary identity which we experience as being who we truly are. In Dzogchen, if we get immersed in our dream-like thoughts and don't recognize the pure, mirror-like nature of our mind, we are literally considered to be nonlucidly dreaming.
The problem is that as long as we are identified with and absorbed in the imagination or thought of being a separate self we are going to resist part of our experience, as resistance and contraction are themselves the very expression of the separate self. Once we, as a separate self, see that we are resisting our experience, we will undoubtedly try and not resist, which is just another, more subtle form of resistance, and we will find ourselves in a self-created double bind, a prisoner of our own mind once again.
Dzogchen truly offers us the key to liberation; from the Dzogchen point of view, these contractions and resistances are themselves seen to be the unmediated expression of the enlightened mind itself. If we don't recognize this, we will react to our resistance like it is something real and separate from ourselves, seeing it as a true obstruction to our enlightenment. If our resistance is seen in this way, it will, in no time whatsoever, spontaneously shape-shift and manifest as a seemingly genuine obscuration, as it is nothing other than our own reflection, and we will once again be caught in the infinite regression known as samsara or cyclic existence.
On the other hand, if we recognize our resistance as the unmediated expression of our enlightened nature itself, which is none other than to become lucid in the dream, not only does the resistance not last very long, but it ceases to be problematic, as we are no longer resisting our resistance, and have thus snapped out of our infinite regression. The resistance then reveals itself to be the very vehicle through which we have deepened our realization, as we have embraced even the part of ourselves that is non-embracing.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852587 - 11/20/16 07:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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meaningless only exists in relation to meaning. if there is no meaning, there is also no meaninglessness, there just is what is. and why is that a problem exactly?
i would say if looking outwards to life is bleak or whatever, then balance that by focusing inwards. learn to love yourself, fall in love with your inner dimensions. there is much to explore, so long as your mind doesn't put the breaks on it with a "but what is the point of that" question.
just to add - i do think life has a meaningful "purpose" in a sense, and that is why we decided to experience it. but within the experience, we are left in the dark - much like plato's cave, where we stare at the light on the wall unaware that there is a source of light, a whole expansive reality, 'behind us'. if we keep looking outwards it can seem bleak. so turn around and look where the light is coming from... go exploring
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PlantManBee
undifferentiated



Registered: 11/17/16
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852588 - 11/20/16 07:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I remember calling a suicide hotline many years ago. The operator was so apathetic about my plight that it angered me into wanting life. Thanks a lot A-hole.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852590 - 11/20/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
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sudly said: Then what the fuck do you want? A diamond dildo?
Jesus dude, are you not satisfied by anything?
Try to put things in perspective, we truly do live in a heaven on Earth in a hell that is the Universe.
Life can't survive outside our atmosphere.(except in spaceships and tardigrades)

We have minds developed enough to wonder why we are even alive and why we should keep going anyway. That's a curse not a gift. Earth isn't heaven either. Nature is a vicious struggle to survive.
Quote:
a heaven on Earth in a hell that is the Universe.
We also have minds developed enough to make do with what we have.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852598 - 11/20/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 2
#23852604 - 11/20/16 08:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Y'all can keep posting, and trying to get through his thick skin until you're blue in the face, but he won't listen to any of you. You're wasting your time, and the attention you're giving him is detrimental to all of us. He has his mind made up, and is not going to consider ANY other perspective. He just wants attention. Just stop.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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yeah. he's just a young boy with alot more living and learning to do. In his own time.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 3 hours, 32 minutes
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I tend to agree, but I also see engaging with him as a worthwhile exercise, it's like dialoguing with a part of myself that doesn't believe in the rest and it can be good to converse with that aspect of mind-centric doubt and nihilism, as I think that's a propensity we can all have at times.
I don't think it will change Thanatos' mind right now, but perhaps it might plant some idea-seeds that will sprout later. I don't feel that he is debating in good faith necessarily, but still... who knows. I do think it's possible to fall into his way of thinking, and if any of our responses help a bit that's good
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23852626 - 11/20/16 08:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sudly]
#23852631 - 11/20/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Thanatos10
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: deff]
#23853048 - 11/21/16 12:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: also thanatos, there is a book I feel might benefit you. I haven't read it, but from what I've gathered about it, I think it might be a good bridge from your current perspective to something new (and more enjoyable).
the book: https://www.amazon.com/Biocentrism-Consciousness-Understanding-Nature-Universe/dp/1935251740/ref=sr_1_1/155-2042837-7890928?ie=UTF8&qid=1479697161&sr=8-1&keywords=biocentrism
and the sequel: https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Biocentrism-Rethinking-Consciousness-Illusion/dp/194295221X/ref=sr_1_2/155-2042837-7890928?ie=UTF8&qid=1479697161&sr=8-2&keywords=biocentrism
your life is in your hands, as always best wishes and good luck 
That's the type of nonsense I try to stay away from. All it shows is a poor understanding of quantum physics.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: yeah. he's just a young boy with alot more living and learning to do. In his own time.
I've learned that spirituality is a dead end that pretends it has answers.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Y'all can keep posting, and trying to get through his thick skin until you're blue in the face, but he won't listen to any of you. You're wasting your time, and the attention you're giving him is detrimental to all of us. He has his mind made up, and is not going to consider ANY other perspective. He just wants attention. Just stop.
Because so far nothing has been able to answer the question as to why one should continue to live, why continue to struggle? No one has been able to answer the question about why one should stay alive. I have asked that question all over the Internet and no one has an answer for it.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23853127 - 11/21/16 01:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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So now the suicidal is in a position to experiment...just what is Matthew 16:25 on about anyway?
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23853129 - 11/21/16 01:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hurry up and feed nature already.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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DisoRDeR
motional



Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 2
#23853148 - 11/21/16 01:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Because so far nothing has been able to answer the question as to why one should continue to live, why continue to struggle? No one has been able to answer the question about why one should stay alive. I have asked that question all over the Internet and no one has an answer for it.
It's always in the last place you look.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: DisoRDeR] 1
#23853775 - 11/21/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DisoRDeR said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Because so far nothing has been able to answer the question as to why one should continue to live, why continue to struggle? No one has been able to answer the question about why one should stay alive. I have asked that question all over the Internet and no one has an answer for it.
Because it's a stupid question
there are some tricky words
one is "try" you don't try to get out of a chair and stand up you just stand up trying to relax, guarntees you won’t relax
another tricky word is "should" there is no reason the snow should fall it just does there is no reason for the universe to be a universe it just is
you don't ry to live you just wake up in the morning until you don't
we don't wake up in the morning because we've considered it in our dreams and decided it's a good idea we just wake up
the notion that life is a struggle is just an idea which builds, into opinion, belief, and emotion some say it is a challenge, or a gift, or whatever all just opinion
a fox caught in a trap chews it's leg off no opinions no trying no shoulds no complaining no hoping just pure action
Perhaps you aka Thanatos10 think the question is clever or you enjoy stumping folks or you want excuses to avoid certain things who knows
but in the end it is simply misguided
as deff said “meaningless only exists in relation to meaning. if there is no meaning, there is also no meaninglessness, there just is what is. and why is that a problem exactly?”
no meaning no meaninglessness no shoulds no complaining no opinions no trying
all unnecessary
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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really, there is still time for you to wake up. preaching isn't going to cut it. doing an honest evaluation of the condition of the earth might, but in this case likely not. theres always hope, however.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: really, there is still time for you to wake up. preaching isn't going to cut it. doing an honest evaluation of the condition of the earth might, but in this case likely not. theres always hope, however.
apparently you feel / assume
1) I am not as 'awake' as you are 2) I should 'wake up' 3) and that I am more preachy than you !!!
4) you assume I don't know earth is messed up 5) you assume if I did know this it would be the same as 'enlightenment'
6) you state you are an optimist, but about what is unspecified, although possibly it could be an attempt at indicating superiority by the use of sarcasm, but is too vague, to really make a case for anything.
Your post seems an an odd mix of partly formed ideas and assumptions that fails to find focus, other than to express feelings of distain in a supposedly disguised rational format. Last time before you got banned (for posting numerous rants) you just came right out and called me all the 'nasty' names you could think of at that moment. You are entirely welcome to do so again, for all I care.
Edited by laughingdog (11/21/16 10:47 AM)
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 2
#23854219 - 11/21/16 12:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Y'all can keep posting, and trying to get through his thick skin until you're blue in the face, but he won't listen to any of you. You're wasting your time, and the attention you're giving him is detrimental to all of us. He has his mind made up, and is not going to consider ANY other perspective. He just wants attention. Just stop.
Because so far nothing has been able to answer the question as to why one should continue to live, why continue to struggle? No one has been able to answer the question about why one should stay alive. I have asked that question all over the Internet and no one has an answer for it.
You must have an answer to this question, because you chose to keep living since the last time you asked it.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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LRG
Supernaut

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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23854349 - 11/21/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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You could always hit yourself in the head with a hammer really, really hard. See if that makes death anymore appealing.
Death is easier than living. Based on what I gather from my Friend the afterlife is no joke... not fun at all. It's hard to earn a place in the Kingdom.
"Say goodbye to gravity and say goodbye to death. Hello to eternity and live for every breath" - The Wickerman by Iron Maiden.
"Thought that you'd escape the reaper... You can't escape the Master Keeper." "Then you ask from your cask is there life after birth. What you sow can mean Hell on this earth" - Suicide Solution, Ozzy Osbourne
I've personally had a near death experience as a child... ceiling melted into Jesus in the middle of rainbows. Pretty fucking awesome is the only way to describe it.
There's a lot of dreams to accomplish down here before I meet Him again. I'd like that meeting to be joyous and full of laughter. Not one where I'm getting yelled at.
-------------------- "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes! "Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous "Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
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Thanatos10
Stranger


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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: viktor]
#23854754 - 11/21/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Y'all can keep posting, and trying to get through his thick skin until you're blue in the face, but he won't listen to any of you. You're wasting your time, and the attention you're giving him is detrimental to all of us. He has his mind made up, and is not going to consider ANY other perspective. He just wants attention. Just stop.
Because so far nothing has been able to answer the question as to why one should continue to live, why continue to struggle? No one has been able to answer the question about why one should stay alive. I have asked that question all over the Internet and no one has an answer for it.
You must have an answer to this question, because you chose to keep living since the last time you asked it.
It's not really and answer so much as it is an automaton just moving on is own by some unseen and unknown directive
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23854774 - 11/21/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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no directive none. this is it. you want to do drama, go ahead, you want to be a pilot, go ahead.
there is no directive, no built in migration to be railed against. you are freer than a bird.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23855382 - 11/21/16 07:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Y'all can keep posting, and trying to get through his thick skin until you're blue in the face, but he won't listen to any of you. You're wasting your time, and the attention you're giving him is detrimental to all of us. He has his mind made up, and is not going to consider ANY other perspective. He just wants attention. Just stop.
Because so far nothing has been able to answer the question as to why one should continue to live, why continue to struggle? No one has been able to answer the question about why one should stay alive. I have asked that question all over the Internet and no one has an answer for it.
You must have an answer to this question, because you chose to keep living since the last time you asked it.
It's not really and answer so much as it is an automaton just moving on is own by some unseen and unknown directive
So keeping following the unseen and unknown directive, since that's obviously good enough to have got you through the last 12 months or so since you last asked the exact same question.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23855831 - 11/21/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: It's something that I struggle with every day of my life so far. Waking up and wishing for none existence. No dreams, no life. Just nullity.
I know that life exists without reason. It has done so for thousands of years. Yet here we are as humans and wonder why stay alive? The answer of survival doesn't quite catch because then it's also opens the door to "why surivive"?
People tell me al the time that it's worth it, that things get better. But to me hope is a cruel thing to give. Waiting for better days and hoping things turn around when there isn't proof that they will. My future is pretty much nonexistent and I don't see why people bother to keep going on. Why struggle to stay breathing when death is easier? I just can't seem to accurately solve that issue.
I want death, but paradoxically I don't want to die. But I just can't seem to see what others see that makes life worth living. Why they bother to struggle through great difficulty rather than just die.
Logically it is pointless, but the worth of life is subjective and this is true whether we deem it to be worthless or valuable. This observation indicates that seeing life as inherently meaningless is a subjective position and one that generally precludes curiosity towards life's facets in favor of gnawing away forever at meaningless questions. There is no "stuff" of life but for the experiences themselves and it's our experiences that shape the way we think about life. There's only so much pondering that can be done about it. An empty mind is ripe for new experiences. I'm not suggesting you attempt to ditch the pessimism for optimism, but that you not allow it to kill your curiosity towards life and what experiences you might have. Otherwise you are either doomed or waiting for someone to save you.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Rahz]
#23855918 - 11/21/16 10:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is just baby talk, move along folks.
This boy is asking if life is worth living to a damn online forum, instead of finding out By Living.
I think you need some help in your home life , or you just need to grow up, OR you need to go travel around the world and have an oddyssey. IDK how old you are, but if your not even 30, never had a kid, never traveled the world, never learned another language and lived in another culture or spent more than a year out of mainstream society, you have not one IOTA of what your talking about. Pretending you have the answers, self deception is bad. Stop reading nonsense you youngin and go life a damn life worth living.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Ill talk to you on the phone if your serious. Because your as blind as a bat. You are what plato talked about in his allegory of the cave. PM Me, ill set your ass straight boy with a good phone call.
maybe the life YOUR living is not worth SHIT. But by god life itself wouldnt be here if it wasnt intrinsically worth it.
only bad thing about the internet is know it all's believe their own bullshit, and find things to conform to it creating endless delusion.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Ill talk to you on the phone if your serious. Because your as blind as a bat. You are what plato talked about in his allegory of the cave. PM Me, ill set your ass straight boy with a good phone call.
maybe the life YOUR living is not worth SHIT. But by god life itself wouldnt be here if it wasnt intrinsically worth it.
only bad thing about the internet is know it all's believe their own bullshit, and find things to conform to it creating endless delusion.
You are wrong that life itself wouldn't be here if it wasn't worth it. Life exists without reason. It continues to live on whether or not we think it's worth it.
Also your response is full of the same nonsense that has been shot down before. Traveling, children, outside mainstream. Rather pedestrian answers that just dodge the question instead of answer it
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23857505 - 11/22/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why wouldn't the answer be subjective? For some, life is worth living, and for others, it's not. It depends on the individual, whether they find any value, virtue, appeal out of their subjective experience of living.
"everyone is looking for something and they assume somebody else knows what it is no one can live with the decisions of their own it seems so they look to someone else to tell 'em what to be tell 'em what to wear tell 'em what to say tell 'em how to act and think and compel others compulsively until the world is all like them" Bad religion - No Direction
(more lyrics)
prepare for rejection you'll get no direction from me you'll get no direction from me
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: no directive none. this is it. you want to do drama, go ahead, you want to be a pilot, go ahead.
there is no directive, no built in migration to be railed against. you are freer than a bird.
the titties were bigger in the 70s.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#23857898 - 11/22/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: CosmicJoke]
#23857910 - 11/22/16 04:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CosmicJoke said: Why wouldn't the answer be subjective? For some, life is worth living, and for others, it's not. It depends on the individual, whether they find any value, virtue, appeal out of their subjective experience of living.
"everyone is looking for something and they assume somebody else knows what it is no one can live with the decisions of their own it seems so they look to someone else to tell 'em what to be tell 'em what to wear tell 'em what to say tell 'em how to act and think and compel others compulsively until the world is all like them" Bad religion - No Direction
(more lyrics)
prepare for rejection you'll get no direction from me you'll get no direction from me
With words like that you can endorse anything. Like murder, rape and theft
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23857935 - 11/22/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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you are a special lad so special in fact that your speciality is specialness especially due to your very specifically special nature.
a very special lad indeed.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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LRG
Supernaut

Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Ill talk to you on the phone if your serious. Because your as blind as a bat. You are what plato talked about in his allegory of the cave. PM Me, ill set your ass straight boy with a good phone call.
maybe the life YOUR living is not worth SHIT. But by god life itself wouldnt be here if it wasnt intrinsically worth it.
only bad thing about the internet is know it all's believe their own bullshit, and find things to conform to it creating endless delusion.
This guy.
In the words of Janis Joplin "Have another little piece of my heart."
-------------------- "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes! "Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous "Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23858008 - 11/22/16 04:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
CosmicJoke said: Why wouldn't the answer be subjective? For some, life is worth living, and for others, it's not. It depends on the individual, whether they find any value, virtue, appeal out of their subjective experience of living.
"everyone is looking for something and they assume somebody else knows what it is no one can live with the decisions of their own it seems so they look to someone else to tell 'em what to be tell 'em what to wear tell 'em what to say tell 'em how to act and think and compel others compulsively until the world is all like them" Bad religion - No Direction
(more lyrics)
prepare for rejection you'll get no direction from me you'll get no direction from me
With words like that you can endorse anything. Like murder, rape and theft
Yup, some but not all people are gratified by such motives.... I feel they are universally shitty, maladjusted, and stunted in nature. It still doesn't invalidate that they find their lives worth living.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23858087 - 11/22/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Ill talk to you on the phone if your serious. Because your as blind as a bat. You are what plato talked about in his allegory of the cave. PM Me, ill set your ass straight boy with a good phone call.
maybe the life YOUR living is not worth SHIT. But by god life itself wouldnt be here if it wasnt intrinsically worth it.
only bad thing about the internet is know it all's believe their own bullshit, and find things to conform to it creating endless delusion.
You are wrong that life itself wouldn't be here if it wasn't worth it. Life exists without reason. It continues to live on whether or not we think it's worth it.
Also your response is full of the same nonsense that has been shot down before. Traveling, children, outside mainstream. Rather pedestrian answers that just dodge the question instead of answer it
Flowers have no "reason" to be, but they sure do smell nice.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23858145 - 11/22/16 05:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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from the first post of the thread
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: It's something that I struggle with every day of my life so far. Waking up and wishing for none existence. No dreams, no life. Just nullity.
I know that life exists without reason. It has done so for thousands of years. Yet here we are as humans and wonder why stay alive? The answer of survival doesn't quite catch because then it's also opens the door to "why surivive"?
People tell me al the time that it's worth it, that things get better. But to me hope is a cruel thing to give. Waiting for better days and hoping things turn around when there isn't proof that they will. My future is pretty much nonexistent and I don't see why people bother to keep going on. Why struggle to stay breathing when death is easier? I just can't seem to accurately solve that issue.
I want death, but paradoxically I don't want to die. But I just can't seem to see what others see that makes life worth living. Why they bother to struggle through great difficulty rather than just die.
very funny
you constantly contradict yourself "Why struggle to stay breathing when death is easier? " death aka suicide is not easier - or you would have done it as you say yourself "but ... I don't want to die"
then you say "But to me hope is a cruel thing to give." but obviously you are involved in hoping yourself or you’d be dead and stop posting so you are blaming others for what you do yourself & continue doing to yourself
Anyone that constantly battles themselves and blames others will stay unhappy, it’s simply how minds work. Nothing personal or mysterious about it at all.
and finally you indulge in another emotion guaranteed to create unhappiness: jealousy: “But I just can't seem to see what others see that makes life worth living. “ which is also actually more complaining which is another emotion guaranteed to create unhappiness.
After fucking up your own head and boasting in other posts about how you’ve posted this crap all over the internet for a long time, it is apparent that the one joy you allow yourself, is a little secret feeling of superiority you get from sucking others into your precious little pile of shit. There is no need to reply Thantos - I am not trying to help you - I post to practice what limited writing skills I may have - and to possibly amuse or interact with the other more interesting posters.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: pineninja]
#23858312 - 11/22/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Ill talk to you on the phone if your serious. Because your as blind as a bat. You are what plato talked about in his allegory of the cave. PM Me, ill set your ass straight boy with a good phone call.
maybe the life YOUR living is not worth SHIT. But by god life itself wouldnt be here if it wasnt intrinsically worth it.
only bad thing about the internet is know it all's believe their own bullshit, and find things to conform to it creating endless delusion.
You are wrong that life itself wouldn't be here if it wasn't worth it. Life exists without reason. It continues to live on whether or not we think it's worth it.
Also your response is full of the same nonsense that has been shot down before. Traveling, children, outside mainstream. Rather pedestrian answers that just dodge the question instead of answer it
Flowers have no "reason" to be, but they sure do smell nice.
Watch a flower like there is a gun to your head for a month straight in the spring and summer and you will see they do have a Reason. Many reasons. Much more than just smelling nice. Some smell horrible, and still have many and roles to play and things to do.
I have found flowers interacting with all kinds of life, with fungi, with bee's, with the sun, with the wind, with the soil, with the earth worms, with each other reproducing, with their scent attracting man to enjoy it and in doing so unknowingly spread its seed for more to share. This is only the tip of the ice burg of the flower's "reasons".
The same thing the sun is sunning for.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Whilst all those things happen, I think ultimately and wholly it's a never ending pointless loop. Doesn't make it less beautiful or joyous....just pointless. I'm an optimistic nihlist.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: pineninja]
#23858445 - 11/22/16 07:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nihilism is a trap. A fool's trap.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Life is perfect because it is an all inclusive totality that leads to middle way realization, in avoiding the two extremes of nihilism and eternalism, which are only separated by the cognitive construct of words.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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I'm happy within my delusions are you.?
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 6,067
Loc: Not Wisconsin
Last seen: 4 months, 3 days
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23858523 - 11/22/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Ill talk to you on the phone if your serious. Because your as blind as a bat. You are what plato talked about in his allegory of the cave. PM Me, ill set your ass straight boy with a good phone call.
maybe the life YOUR living is not worth SHIT. But by god life itself wouldn't be here if it wasn't intrinsically worth it.
only bad thing about the internet is know it all's believe their own bullshit, and find things to conform to it creating endless delusion.
You are wrong that life itself wouldn't be here if it wasn't worth it. Life exists without reason. It continues to live on whether or not we think it's worth it.
Also your response is full of the same nonsense that has been shot down before. Traveling, children, outside mainstream. Rather pedestrian answers that just dodge the question instead of answer it
How do you know life exists without reason? In my mind it is hard to have an opinion about these things when we have no factual evidence. So for you to be so sure would mean you know how everything was created and that death is the end of an individual consciousness...If you have proof of these things get off the shroomery and share your knowledge with the world....otherwise what is it in life that does not seem worth doing? And the Blind Ass is not dodging your question he is asking you if you have experienced those things....I have children and sometimes they are frustrating and sometimes they bring such joy into my life...I have traveled some and seen how other people live and it is fulfilling...to me at least. What is it in your life that makes it not worth living? You have been very vague about this...at least from what I have read.
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srphatness
Stranger

Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 54
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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You will die eventually. That is a guarantee. Nothing to gain by being in a hurry.
But life is all that you have, your only chance at anything other than death.
Take that for what it's worth.
That and I love you man.
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Thanatos10
Stranger


Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: srphatness] 1
#23860889 - 11/23/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well I think I'm slowly getting over it now. Realizing things aren't as bad as they seem
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23861031 - 11/23/16 03:26 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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hey, imagine dat! now we don't have to be so cynical. phew!
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: hey, imagine dat! now we don't have to be so cynical. phew!
time to clean my latrine. pick up your hat and say imagine that you working for me!~
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 17 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23862413 - 11/24/16 01:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
Well I think I'm slowly getting over it now. Realizing things aren't as bad as they seem
"All things shall pass" :-)
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 3 years, 17 days
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23862451 - 11/24/16 02:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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i sympathize and i understand where you're coming from.
Life is hard. And for anyone born with a brain earth is a really cumbersome experience. but the simple fact you exist is something. having the ability to experience (even if its shit) many people believe is a gift. It is better to feel depressed than to feel nothing at all, or ever again.
I try hard to have a attitude of gratitude, but obviously I struggle. I will unless someone waves a magic wand and eliminates everything that makes Earth a fkg ruiner. (and what makes earth a ruiner is PPL. because PPL=SHT)
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sprinkles]
#23862913 - 11/24/16 08:19 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Most of us are living in "comfortable" circumstances. A view of people's getting their brains bashed out of their heads or hearing desperate gasps to maintain the bodies respiratory system would probable send you into trauma.
You have no idea of the reality hiding behind your cultural pasifiers. A flimsy screen you will have pulled away in due course. Death in its insatiable, inconsequential appetite will claim your bloated corpse
Death and decay won't give a fuck about your intelligence or twitters popularity. It doesn't care about your humility or lack of it. Your human programs. All of it is meaningless
It's a process like the one many people claim as a soul. Nothing special a process of cause and effect
Edited by Jaegar (11/24/16 08:30 AM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Jaegar]
#23863156 - 11/24/16 10:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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The first person perspective simplifies our organisms ability to navigate and interact with environment. Any clown exposing personal enlightenment is a fart in the wind.
The reality of our eventual demise will not Ben ideas, but visceral raw and rash.
Edited by Jaegar (11/24/16 10:38 AM)
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LRG
Supernaut

Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Jaegar]
#23863284 - 11/24/16 10:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jaegar said: The first person perspective simplifies our organisms ability to navigate and interact with environment. Any clown exposing personal enlightenment is a fart in the wind.
The reality of our eventual demise will not Ben ideas, but visceral raw and rash.
I like you. The fact is if they were enlightened they wouldn't be be here putting themselves on pedestals belittling people.
I tend to err on the side of humor. I enjoy it down here. It's fun, it's depressing, but this dreamy world has it's moments.
-------------------- "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes! "Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous "Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: LRG]
#23863314 - 11/24/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The Blind Ass farts in the wind.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 3 years, 17 days
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Jaegar] 1
#23863329 - 11/24/16 11:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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misery comes from desire and wanting. when you're content with shit and nothing anything else is a bonus.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sprinkles]
#23863810 - 11/24/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thing is I see us all enlightened. Some just wear it better than others. To clarify, I see our normal everyday mind and heart as enlightenment, tis' the vehicle through which we deepen our realization.
Just an opinion. Not some special holier than thou thing. Not super powers.
So with that said... I fart in your general direction.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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lovuasca
Strange


Registered: 09/10/16
Posts: 72
Loc: Level 0
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sprinkles]
#23863843 - 11/24/16 02:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Maybe not the life for what you think of it right now.
I used to think I wanted to stop existing, and I too was afraid of dying. I used to think that I was a coward because I couldn't get myself to do just that. So I stayed alive and tried to live self-destructive. Eventually I did (slowly) realize that deep down, to stop existing, is not what I really want. Yes, of course I wanted to die, it seemed like easy answer to everything. But those were just superficial idea's. My conclusion, years after, is that my subconsciousness had other idea's. The problem was not that I was doomed to live a meaningless life. The problem was that I believed that life was what society had thought me: it being substandard like it was. And I can't live a substandard life like the masses. I eventually started looking 'outside the box' and found my own way of living.
Anyway, I don't think hope is a very good thing as well. And then there is also the thing people say, that it is selfish to kill yourself. Well, I think it is just as selfish to be alive but not really live. Whether you live or you don't is your choice in the end, but don't let your mind trick you. Chances are good that your unconscious thinks otherwise. People nowadays are just not tuned into their deeper self. Also, some people say that things will be better in the future. I'd say that if you refrain from taking the easy road, this definatly will be true, and you'll get to learn why. On the other hand, don't let it be a reason to just wait and do nothing in the hope that things just change. Nothing changes for no reason.
Anyway, hope this may help. Not trying to be harsh though.
-------------------- It doesn't matter whether you are christian, muslim, jew, atheist or ascribe to any other belief-system. It doesn't matter whether you look out to the stars, or under a microscope to the tiniest of particles. It doesn't even matter what kind of practice you perform to reach your goal. Because if you keep looking, everything eventually leads to the same truth, like a fractal that contains itself in every direction you take it. You will find yourself. I love you. Blatant self-advertisement.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: LRG]
#23863966 - 11/24/16 03:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
Jaegar said: The first person perspective simplifies our organisms ability to navigate and interact with environment. Any clown exposing personal enlightenment is a fart in the wind.
The reality of our eventual demise will not Ben ideas, but visceral raw and rash.
I like you. The fact is if they were enlightened they wouldn't be be here putting themselves on pedestals belittling people.
I tend to err on the side of humor. I enjoy it down here. It's fun, it's depressing, but this dreamy world has it's moments.
So two people that like to threaten and puff up their chests, like each other. Maybe share a beer. It's fun.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Some seriously depressed people in this thread.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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LRG
Supernaut

Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: So two people that like to threaten and puff up their chests, like each other. Maybe share a beer. It's fun.
Nothing wrong with beating your chest. I don't threaten, I warn. There's a subtle difference.
Most people like you don't like me. You think of me as trying to intimidate or a know it all. I merely set an example. You may choose to follow or not. Only fools are intimidated by me, and liars scoff at me and look the other way. That being said... I am rather intimidating in a more mysterious way rather than the classical menacing term. Tough to read, unpredictable, and perceptive.
I am a PUNK. Great acronym hidden in there.
-------------------- "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes! "Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous "Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23864532 - 11/24/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Is life worth living?
The short answer is "No!" The long answer is "Yes!"
--------------------
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 3 years, 17 days
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: lovuasca]
#23865003 - 11/25/16 12:03 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lovuasca said: Maybe not the life for what you think of it right now.
I used to think I wanted to stop existing, and I too was afraid of dying. I used to think that I was a coward because I couldn't get myself to do just that. So I stayed alive and tried to live self-destructive. Eventually I did (slowly) realize that deep down, to stop existing, is not what I really want. Yes, of course I wanted to die, it seemed like easy answer to everything. But those were just superficial idea's. My conclusion, years after, is that my subconsciousness had other idea's. The problem was not that I was doomed to live a meaningless life. The problem was that I believed that life was what society had thought me: it being substandard like it was. And I can't live a substandard life like the masses. I eventually started looking 'outside the box' and found my own way of living.
Anyway, I don't think hope is a very good thing as well. And then there is also the thing people say, that it is selfish to kill yourself. Well, I think it is just as selfish to be alive but not really live. Whether you live or you don't is your choice in the end, but don't let your mind trick you. Chances are good that your unconscious thinks otherwise. People nowadays are just not tuned into their deeper self. Also, some people say that things will be better in the future. I'd say that if you refrain from taking the easy road, this definatly will be true, and you'll get to learn why. On the other hand, don't let it be a reason to just wait and do nothing in the hope that things just change. Nothing changes for no reason.
Anyway, hope this may help. Not trying to be harsh though.
i think its selfish for people to say that suicide is selfish. IMO it's more selfish to make someone live when they're fucking miserable. Its like making them stay here just so the other person dont have to feel grief or loss. Anyway Im all for suicide, if someone isnt having a good time here but I would always encourage a person to stay.
sometimes our bodies shut down and we die naturally because some organ fails and stops functioning. Other times our brain doesnt feel like playing anymore. Some deaths are physical some are mental. I would like to have a humane choice when to call it quits, and not have to blow my fucking head off or take a bunch of pills sit in a bathtub. I want to die while I still have some quality of life and dignity left. Not sitting on a toilet naked. everyone dies naked.
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 17 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sprinkles]
#23865011 - 11/25/16 12:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lovuasca said:
I want to die while I still have some quality of life and dignity left.
How in the name of Jesus could you possibly lose your dignity?!
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 3 years, 17 days
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speaking of Jesus, sometimes adversity is put there on purpose for us to develop a closer/stronger relationship with God.
Read the bible op.
speaking of the bible its time for me to read. good night children.
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 17 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sprinkles]
#23865020 - 11/25/16 12:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
sprinkles said:
speaking of Jesus, sometimes adversity is put there on purpose for us to develop a closer/stronger relationship with God.
If this is true, Christ and Satan are one in the same.
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 3 years, 17 days
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um no. I said adversitity, not evil.
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: sprinkles]
#23865696 - 11/25/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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If God is all mighty dip your yard membrane into delinquiency
If your a all mighty would you rather your slaves experience all your glory or listens Om teardrop sermons
Edited by Jaegar (11/25/16 10:46 AM)
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Love_spirit
Circle Of Power



Registered: 07/18/15
Posts: 1,208
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23865818 - 11/25/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sounds like your suffering through a spot of blindness. If you've been suffering for a long time you will get so much higher when you finally get a release.
The root of who you are will not be snuffed out if you kill yourself.
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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Edit: personalism
Edited by DividedQuantum (11/25/16 02:02 PM)
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FishyAl
neighborhood stoner man!



Registered: 09/13/16
Posts: 59
Loc: VA
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Jaegar]
#23865881 - 11/25/16 12:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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If there is anything in life to stick around for, that life is always worth living IMO. Taking your life is a last resort because there are no options after the deed. The uncertainty of the afterlife honestly scares the shit out of me. I don't know for sure if we go to Heaven/ Hell, become at one with a universal consciousness, etc. or if it is simply lights out for an individual. From my perspective, I love my life, even though it is filled with disappointment, and regrets. I have thought of taking my life before, but I decided to choose to be happy with life. I recommend everyone think hard about their life before they give it up. Life is beautiful!
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: FishyAl]
#23865898 - 11/25/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Edit: personalism
Edited by DividedQuantum (11/25/16 02:03 PM)
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sprinkles
otd president


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 21,527
Loc: washington state
Last seen: 3 years, 17 days
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Jaegar]
#23865926 - 11/25/16 12:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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my penis keeps falling off.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Quote:
beforethedawn said: Some seriously depressed people in this thread.
Reality is depressing.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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FishyAl
neighborhood stoner man!



Registered: 09/13/16
Posts: 59
Loc: VA
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
beforethedawn said: Some seriously depressed people in this thread.
Reality is depressing. 
That is why I fucking love psychedelics! It gets you away from reality.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: FishyAl]
#23866284 - 11/25/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nature is mystical though. I was outside early in the morning around 4:45am when everyone was waking up . The deer, the squirrels, the birds, the bugs, the foxes and everyone else was waking up and beginning to eat and move around and shit- the cacophony of noises itself was psychedelic.
Everyone was waking up! And theres that whole side of life happening right in front of us everyday! Whenever I forget about the natural world I can easily get bogged down in our strange society and its misgivings and can become sad, but those guys out there in the wild are resilient, beautiful beings!
The more I live in a way where I am mindful of that part of life I remember something special about life , I dont fall asleep while awake via getting spellbound by my thoughts and in doing so remain sober and alert and appreciative , and that along with uncoupling from clutter makes me happy. Living like this is worth it to me.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (11/25/16 03:09 PM)
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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of course if we take the question , " Is life worth living?" in it's literal sense
we could easily answer it very simply
"What!!!, you expect to be paid for living?"
which although it may appear silly
is perhaps actually spot on
as it reveals that the supposedly profound question as actually only another complaint.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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amen to that laughingdog
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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AllGreyThumbs
Storage Container Aficionado


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 849
Loc: Some savage little planet...
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Still nobody has answered the original question. Why should living things even bother to continue the eternal struggle to exist?
The answers are this. Most animals don't have the intellect to question it. Most human beings that do have the intellect still believe in something. There will be something that each person clings to in order to provide value and meaning in life.
It is mostly just a game. You put something on a pedestal and say, "This is important." Then you derive value from whatever it is you assigned to be important. This game is enough for most people.
Every now and then someone is wise, honest, and brave enough to see and admit that it is an arbitrary and self controlled game. We can assign anything to have value and purpose, and we ourselves control the satisfaction.
In a way being suicidal is the ultimate in satisfaction. We look at life and say, "Eh, there isn't really anything out there I need to pursue or obtain. I'm OK just doing or being nothing. Don't really want or need anything. No carrot on a stick I have to reach for. So why should I put in any effort?"
What comes after this realization, when all the human games seem transparent and quite silly? Often people follow through and leave this type of existence behind. I can't fault them for that. I understand completely.
The only other possible motivation I can come up with is try to see if there is more to life, while still keeping a foothold in this world. Not dumb ass spiritual ideas, but maybe yogic practice to try to make some of it reality. Not to speculate on what might be, but to try to figure out what really is.
This is what I do. Instead of playing at life I try to study it and figure it out. Of course this is mostly just my final rationalization, because if I really wanted to know if there is more to life I could have those answers within minutes. What happens when you die? Well, let's just go find out.
Yep, mostly I drag myself through life pretending to studying it, desperate to do anything that will distract me from the realization that I don't really like it here that much, and all I want to know is if there is more to life than just this human stuff.
I don't like life, but I am too afraid to up and die. That's the cold hard truth right there. More self honesty and clarity than you might often see. When there is nothing left to believe in, the motivation to live can distill right down to nothing more than fear of death.
-------------------- I only use drugs medicinally. If I don't my knees hurt from kneeling down.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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self deception is rampant here
we are self aware sentient beings and frankly, your limited only by your lack of imagination and follow through.
illumination and action are simultaneous.
I remember thinking such nonsense when I was young. Who cares anyways? Life is temporary ~ look at that ~ its temporary, that means you can do anything you can do and after its all said and done it will all be Ok.
Cancer, Addiction, Family, Friends, Heartbreak, being broke, Death of family, death of friends, depression, anxiety, confusion about what the hell were doing perpetuating an insane society, the general necessary evil of the process of just growing up -, paying bills, injustice, unfairness, corruption, the lies, evil, the suffering, the betrayals, the illnesses, the Wars, the trapped feeling, the alienated feeling, the existential angst.
Its all worth it, because on that last breath you take - you remember the truth.
With that said, no need to rush it - because its inevitable, so enjoy the ride and make sure you make real friends to ride with you. Never give up the search for truth and the greater good and reflecting it in your character, because one day the Dream will end and the sleeper will awaken again.
love is the key to a meaningful life, but it is not the answer, the answer is what you do with your life, and if you give up on your REAL dreams, before you lost faith in your primordial self, you before you bought into the bullshit and forgot who you really are, then your life will feel like an empty shell. But if you take the reigns and get ALL your shit together and let nothing stop you in your quest to do your best it will change the way you ASK the question, because its all in how you say it.....dont give up. Because its not forever and this might be your only shot to do this.
if your looking for the perfect sentence to satisfy your question about ultimate meaning - then you need to examine more deeply the real reason the question comes up in the first place.
the state of mind from which you ask the question - is not right. imho.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (11/28/16 01:45 PM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Quote:
AllGreyThumbs said: Still nobody has answered the original question. Why should living things even bother to continue the eternal struggle to exist?
The answers are this. Most animals don't have the intellect to question it. Most human beings that do have the intellect still believe in something. There will be something that each person clings to in order to provide value and meaning in life.
It is mostly just a game. You put something on a pedestal and say, "This is important." Then you derive value from whatever it is you assigned to be important. This game is enough for most people.
Every now and then someone is wise, honest, and brave enough to see and admit that it is an arbitrary and self controlled game. We can assign anything to have value and purpose, and we ourselves control the satisfaction.
In a way being suicidal is the ultimate in satisfaction. We look at life and say, "Eh, there isn't really anything out there I need to pursue or obtain. I'm OK just doing or being nothing. Don't really want or need anything. No carrot on a stick I have to reach for. So why should I put in any effort?"
What comes after this realization, when all the human games seem transparent and quite silly? Often people follow through and leave this type of existence behind. I can't fault them for that. I understand completely.
The only other possible motivation I can come up with is try to see if there is more to life, while still keeping a foothold in this world. Not dumb ass spiritual ideas, but maybe yogic practice to try to make some of it reality. Not to speculate on what might be, but to try to figure out what really is.
This is what I do. Instead of playing at life I try to study it and figure it out. Of course this is mostly just my final rationalization, because if I really wanted to know if there is more to life I could have those answers within minutes. What happens when you die? Well, let's just go find out.
Yep, mostly I drag myself through life pretending to studying it, desperate to do anything that will distract me from the realization that I don't really like it here that much, and all I want to know is if there is more to life than just this human stuff.
I don't like life, but I am too afraid to up and die. That's the cold hard truth right there. More self honesty and clarity than you might often see. When there is nothing left to believe in, the motivation to live can distill right down to nothing more than fear of death.
Nice post, AllGrey. 
Yeah, I think it comes down to the genetically fostered fear of death and the drive to survive -- a.k.a. death anxiety. It would be nice to say that we live for other reasons, but in the end those reasons are really rationalized epiphenomena of the (mostly unconscious) drive to survive. Billions of years of evolution have bred that instinct into us, and to claim there is any real other reason why we push the boulder up the hill every day is really window-dressing. Without that genetic imperative, every species would go extinct.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: self deception is rampant here ..... the state of mind from which you ask the question - is not right. imho.
self delusion or delusion is rampant anyway
question is basically dualistic
just like talking to oneself
'my life' what a joke
also attempt to judge life from inside it
also attempt to judge life from purely anthropocentric values
all this without going into nature of so called 'self'
really it's just complaining by a confused sleepwalker
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AllGreyThumbs
Storage Container Aficionado


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 849
Loc: Some savage little planet...
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: self deception is rampant here
we are self aware sentient beings and frankly, your limited only by your lack of imagination and follow through.
illumination and action are simultaneous.
I remember thinking such nonsense when I was young. Who cares anyways? Life is temporary ~ look at that ~ its temporary, that means you can do anything you can do and after its all said and done it will all be Ok.
Cancer, Addiction, Family, Friends, Heartbreak, being broke, Death of family, death of friends, depression, anxiety, confusion about what the hell were doing perpetuating an insane society, the general necessary evil of the process of just growing up -, paying bills, injustice, unfairness, corruption, the lies, evil, the suffering, the betrayals, the illnesses, the Wars, the trapped feeling, the alienated feeling, the existential angst.
Its all worth it, because on that last breath you take - you remember the truth.
With that said, no need to rush it - because its inevitable, so enjoy the ride and make sure you make real friends to ride with you. Never give up the search for truth and the greater good and reflecting it in your character, because one day the Dream will end and the sleeper will awaken again.
love is the key to a meaningful life, but it is not the answer, the answer is what you do with your life, and if you give up on your REAL dreams, before you lost faith in your primordial self, you before you bought into the bullshit and forgot who you really are, then your life will feel like an empty shell. But if you take the reigns and get ALL your shit together and let nothing stop you in your quest to do your best it will change the way you ASK the question, because its all in how you say it.....dont give up. Because its not forever and this might be your only shot to do this.
if your looking for the perfect sentence to satisfy your question about ultimate meaning - then you need to examine more deeply the real reason the question comes up in the first place.
the state of mind from which you ask the question - is not right. imho.
I'm not young. I'm middle aged. When I was young I had hopes and dreams. Now I have a job I hate, but have to go to because my son needs health insurance.
I also have no real friends, because everyone I know is middle aged, middle class, and heavily invested in the bullshit of life. If people really knew me and the fact that I don't always follow drug laws, I'd be out of work and on my way to prison in an instant. So I live a secret life. It's either that or sell out and forfeit what little freedom and dignity I managed to hold on to.
I wish I could believe life was fair and full of opportunities. I would love to think that all it takes is the right state of mind. However after watching an 11 year old be told he will need medicine for the rest of his life, and realizing that this pretty much shut down any illusions of my own freedom I've become a bit more of a realist. If I had to suck dick for a steady paycheck and health insurance, I probably would.
Of course my life isn't all that bad. In fact I'm doing pretty good for a human being. Look outside our society today. Visit another time or place. What you'll find is people doing whatever they have to do in order to get by. The notion that life is fair and full of opportunities would be laughable.
I mean go to North Korea and tell someone to take life by the horns and make something happen. Go to the dark ages and tell someone that even with the plague the just need to think positive. Peasants, slaves, victims of violence, this is what it means to be a human being. I have it fucking great compared to most people who have every lived.
If you ask me, human life is pretty harsh. I don't think that's a biased statement. I think that perspective is reality, or at least closer to reality than most people would want to realize and admit to themselves. I mean at any moment we are but one genetic twist, one mircorganism, or one mistake away from watching our lives unravel into a world of pain and suffering.
Of course, believe it or not I think I found a way to still feel alright about life. I can have a realistic look at what it really means to be a human being and maybe still manage to keep my brains inside my skull.
-------------------- I only use drugs medicinally. If I don't my knees hurt from kneeling down.
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AllGreyThumbs
Storage Container Aficionado


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 849
Loc: Some savage little planet...
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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I thought that life was hopeless. That the only thing keeping me here was fear of death. However on second thought maybe there is a way forward. Not backwards into the illusion that life if great, but forward through the existential hell and out the other side.
I guess when you stop wanting and needing things from human existence, you can always instead ask yourself, "What can I add to life?"
We can participate in the creative processes by adding something interesting to life, instead of only taking for ourselves. Hmm, that might actually work. I don't want anything, but giving a little bit sounds ok. Maybe instead of getting what I want from life I can use my energy to do something to make life more interesting, diverse, forgiving, or free for everyone.
Except... in the case of our human world it often seems like I've been handed a turd and asked to paint something nice with it. What I mean is that we can't really address the stubborn ignorance that pervades humanity and causes so many problems. It's like everyone is shitting all over the world we live in, and we are just supposed to run around cleaning it up. At what point do we say, "Fuck it. If this is the world people create, then let them walk around in filth."
Even everybody still out there trying to get something from life is really only delaying the fundamental shift that would truly change our world. If more folks went through the hell of realizing it is pointless trying to take from life, maybe we could get to the point where more people want to add something to our world.
So I am torn between wanting to let this world be a shithole, and needing an outlet that would allow me to create something nice. Perhaps if I look carefully I can find some way to interact where it result in a net improvement in human experience.
I suppose that is a part of my problem. Not only am I not adding something to life, I feel by being a tax paying corporate servant I'm supporting greed driven systems that make life worse. I expend my life's energy in service to corporations that would exploit anyone and everyone if it helped keep the stock price up. Go to work = support greed. Buy something I need = support greed. Don't go to jail and continue to participate in society = support greed and oppression.
Basically I don't want anything from life. Instead I want to add to life. Yet just by participating in our often fucked up culture I feel like I am having a net negative impact on our planet and human lives. If I add to life it has to be a real addition. Something unique that leaves human experience just a little bit nicer than it would have been without me.
Hmm, maybe, just maybe, if I look for the right opportunities maybe this lifetime can be used to.add something worthwhile to life.
Maybe I'll even start with the idea that it is ok not want anything from life. That instead of dying, or going backwards to the way we used to be, we can instead push forward and explore new ways to think about our role in this human experience.
-------------------- I only use drugs medicinally. If I don't my knees hurt from kneeling down.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Dude, this world is a shit hole, with or without you. Honestly I can't read posts like yours self indulgent fantasies about whether you matter or not. You don't! I mean sure I skimmed over it, kind of like watching this guy "perform".
Imagine paying big money to watch this UN fuck play with his sad ass band and thinking you made it cause you were close to the front of the stage. Fuckhead can't sing, his band is shit.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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LMAO THAT MUSIC VIDEO HAHAHA
how great is that!
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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worth it? ... compared to what?
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Yes! you got it man. Yes!
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Universaleyeni
Friend



Registered: 04/18/13
Posts: 528
Loc: Fl
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#23880695 - 11/30/16 05:12 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Each individual experiences life with their own perception. You are the eyes of the world.
Ever heard the saying: " A thief only sees opportunities to steal"...? (Something like that )
Well, it doesn't surprise me that people who conclude that this life sucks, or is a shithole, aren't having the most fun they could be having.
Seems like a self fulfilling prophecy to me. Wake up believing your stuck in a shitty pointless existence, ouch tough day. Wake up to a new adventure where anything could happen, much cooler.
I know I'm a younger dude, so maybe life hasn't kicked my ass around like some of the vets here. But from the ass kicking I've gotten so far, it's been so worth it compared to the love, friendship, and adventure I've found.
So is it worth it? For me it totally fucking is!
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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getting up after a hard ass kicking life throws at you is one of the must fulfilling things there is.
rite of passage really.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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whenever things get tough I remember my grandfather being drafted to fight in the War (ww2) at 18 years old and poor being sent to new guinea and having to tough out things in the jungle while fighting for his life and taking orders from god knows who.
then coming back and getting married and having 7 kids and starting a successful roofing business from the ground up and raising his children catholic with great morals and strict discipline with a big emphasize on higher education even though he only went through High school.
We have nothing to complain about, unless you insist on it. As bad as it can seem, things have only gotten easier on mankind in general over time, especially in certain nations. I am a blessed man, and thanks to my ancestors who give me strength through their own lives I can see with a wider vision all the things that test me, including myself.
Our generation is getting weak, soft, and undisciplined. But theres still good out there and in here.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (11/30/16 05:21 AM)
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Universaleyeni
Friend



Registered: 04/18/13
Posts: 528
Loc: Fl
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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I quite agree with you Blind Ass!
Coincidentally, i also reflect on my grandparents' bad assery when im feeling soft. What a badass generation. They came from Cuba, where castro took everything they owned, in the late 60s. With nothing in their pocket, 3 children, cancer and other health problems, knowing no one here, they educated, and raised 3 lives. Ive witnessed them give their bottom dollar and last ounce of energy to help strangers. To this day i havent heard a single existential complaint from them.
Youre right bro, we have nothing to complain about. Excessive complaining, i believe, is a self poisoning habit kinda like cigarettes. Shooting oneself in the foot
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rogue_pixie
faerydae



Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23884658 - 12/01/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: It's something that I struggle with every day of my life so far. Waking up and wishing for none existence. No dreams, no life. Just nullity.
I know that life exists without reason. It has done so for thousands of years. Yet here we are as humans and wonder why stay alive? The answer of survival doesn't quite catch because then it's also opens the door to "why surivive"?
People tell me al the time that it's worth it, that things get better. But to me hope is a cruel thing to give. Waiting for better days and hoping things turn around when there isn't proof that they will. My future is pretty much nonexistent and I don't see why people bother to keep going on. Why struggle to stay breathing when death is easier? I just can't seem to accurately solve that issue.
I want death, but paradoxically I don't want to die. But I just can't seem to see what others see that makes life worth living. Why they bother to struggle through great difficulty rather than just die.
Not everyone does, sadly. A great many people kill themselves, leaving a trail of devastation behind them. The rest of us struggle through the pain and suffering because we fear death. It's in our instinct to live, which makes us naturally terrified to die.
Since we don't know what happens when we die, who's to say the alternative isn't a lot worse? Life becomes easier when we are grateful for the little things, and stop comparing ourselves to others. I know that is easier said than done though, and something I am personally working on. Life is so fucking hard. You're not wrong.
-------------------- "Whatever you do, you need to keep moving. Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally). Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 17 hours, 41 minutes
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Quote:
AllGreyThumbs said:
Why should living things even bother to continue the eternal struggle to exist?
How exactly is existence a "struggle"? Life's a struggle because we're not in control?
Quote:
AllGreyThumbs said:
Don't really want or need anything. No carrot on a stick I have to reach for. So why should I put in any effort?"
Do you really think if you had a desirable carrot to chase you'd be happy? Or motivated?
Quote:
AllGreyThumbs said:
The only other possible motivation I can come up with is try to see if there is more to life...
Do you actually think you could discover something "more to life" that would change you?
How would it feel to abandon the quest to figure life out?
How would it feel to abandon the need to believe or understand?
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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the question is sort of ambiguous
does it simply reflect a mood or feeling?
or
Is there supposed to be a logical answer to a supposedly deep question?
if it's a feeling or mood, it will change
if it's supposed to be a deep question, there is little chance of logics contributing anything, as folks tend to defend whatever beliefs they already have.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
#23894440 - 12/04/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your not having much fun obviously. Life is about fun. Start having some and quit pondering this existential bullshit.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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