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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
    #23875283 - 11/28/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AllGreyThumbs said:
Still nobody has answered the original question.  Why should living things even bother to continue the eternal struggle to exist?

The answers are this.  Most animals don't have the intellect to question it.  Most human beings that do have the intellect still believe in something.  There will be something that each person clings to in order to provide value and meaning in life.

It is mostly just a game.  You put something on a pedestal and say, "This is important."  Then you derive value from whatever it is you assigned to be important.  This game is enough for most people.

Every now and then someone is wise, honest, and brave enough to see and admit that it is an arbitrary and self controlled game.  We can assign anything to have value and purpose, and we ourselves control the satisfaction.

In a way being suicidal is the ultimate in satisfaction.  We look at life and say, "Eh, there isn't really anything out there I need to pursue or obtain.  I'm OK just doing or being nothing.  Don't really want or need anything.  No carrot on a stick I have to reach for.  So why should I put in any effort?"

What comes after this realization, when all the human games seem transparent and quite silly?  Often people follow through and leave this type of existence behind.  I can't fault them for that.  I understand completely.

The only other possible motivation I can come up with is try to see if there is more to life, while still keeping a foothold in this world.  Not dumb ass spiritual ideas, but maybe yogic practice to try to make some of it reality.  Not to speculate on what might be, but to try to figure out what really is.

This is what I do.  Instead of playing at life I try to study it and figure it out.  Of course this is mostly just my final rationalization, because if I really wanted to know if there is more to life I could have those answers within minutes.  What happens when you die?  Well, let's just go find out.

Yep, mostly I drag myself through life pretending to studying it, desperate to do anything that will distract me from the realization that I don't really like it here that much, and all I want to know is if there is more to life than just this human stuff.

I don't like life, but I am too afraid to up and die.  That's the cold hard truth right there.  More self honesty and clarity than you might often see.  When there is nothing left to believe in, the motivation to live can distill right down to nothing more than fear of death.





Nice post, AllGrey. :thumbup:

Yeah, I think it comes down to the genetically fostered fear of death and the drive to survive -- a.k.a. death anxiety.  It would be nice to say that we live for other reasons, but in the end those reasons are really rationalized epiphenomena of the (mostly unconscious) drive to survive.  Billions of years of evolution have bred that instinct into us, and to claim there is any real other reason why we push the boulder up the hill every day is really window-dressing.  Without that genetic imperative, every species would go extinct.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #23875325 - 11/28/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
self deception is rampant here
.....
the state of mind from which you ask the question - is not right. imho.





self delusion or delusion is rampant anyway

question is basically dualistic

just like talking to oneself

'my life' what a joke

also attempt to judge life from inside it

also attempt to judge life from purely anthropocentric values

all this without going into nature of so called 'self'

really it's just complaining by a confused sleepwalker


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OfflineAllGreyThumbs
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23875611 - 11/28/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
self deception is rampant here

we are self aware sentient beings and frankly, your limited only by your lack of imagination and follow through.

illumination and action are simultaneous.

I remember thinking such nonsense when I was young.  Who cares anyways?  Life is temporary ~ look at that ~ its temporary, that means you can do anything you can do and after its all said and done it will all be Ok.

Cancer, Addiction, Family, Friends, Heartbreak, being broke, Death of family, death of friends, depression, anxiety, confusion about what the hell were doing perpetuating an insane society, the general necessary evil of the process of just growing up -, paying bills, injustice, unfairness, corruption, the lies, evil, the suffering, the betrayals, the illnesses, the Wars, the trapped feeling, the alienated feeling, the existential angst.

Its all worth it, because on that last breath you take - you remember the truth.

With that said, no need to rush it - because its inevitable, so enjoy the ride and make sure you make real friends to ride with you.  Never give up the search for truth and the greater good and reflecting it in your character, because one day the Dream will end and the sleeper will awaken again.

love is the key to a meaningful life, but it is not the answer, the answer is what you do with your life, and if you give up on your REAL dreams, before you lost faith in your primordial self, you before you bought into the bullshit and forgot who you really are, then your life will feel like an empty shell.  But if you take the reigns and get ALL your shit together and let nothing stop you in your quest to do your best it will change the way you ASK the question, because its all in how you say it.....dont give up.  Because its not forever and this might be your only shot to do this.

if your looking for the perfect sentence to satisfy your question about ultimate meaning - then you need to examine more deeply the real reason the question comes up in the first place.

the state of mind from which you ask the question - is not right. imho.





I'm not young.  I'm middle aged.  When I was young I had hopes and dreams.  Now I have a job I hate, but have to go to because my son needs health insurance.

I also have no real friends, because everyone I know is middle aged, middle class, and heavily invested in the bullshit of life.  If people really knew me and the fact that I don't always follow drug laws, I'd be out of work and on my way to prison in an instant.  So I live a secret life.  It's either that or sell out and forfeit what little freedom and dignity I managed to hold on to.

I wish I could believe life was fair and full of opportunities.  I would love to think that all it takes is the right state of mind.  However after watching an 11 year old be told he will need medicine for the rest of his life, and realizing that this pretty much shut down any illusions of my own freedom I've become a bit more of a realist.  If I had to suck dick for a steady paycheck and health insurance, I probably would.

Of course my life isn't all that bad.  In fact I'm doing pretty good for a human being.  Look outside our society today.  Visit another time or place.  What you'll find is people doing whatever they have to do in order to get by.  The notion that life is fair and full of opportunities would be laughable.

I mean go to North Korea and tell someone to take life by the horns and make something happen.  Go to the dark ages and tell someone that even with the plague the just need to think positive.  Peasants, slaves, victims of violence, this is what it means to be a human being.  I have it fucking great compared to most people who have every lived.

If you ask me, human life is pretty harsh.  I don't think that's a biased statement.  I think that perspective is reality, or at least closer to reality than most people would want to realize and admit to themselves.  I mean at any moment we are but one genetic twist, one mircorganism, or one mistake away from watching our lives unravel into a world of pain and suffering.

Of course, believe it or not I think I found a way to still feel alright about life.  I can have a realistic look at what it really means to be a human being and maybe still manage to keep my brains inside my skull.


--------------------
I only use drugs medicinally.  If I don't my knees hurt from kneeling down.


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OfflineAllGreyThumbs
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: AllGreyThumbs] * 1
    #23875640 - 11/28/16 04:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I thought that life was hopeless.  That the only thing keeping me here was fear of death.  However on second thought maybe there is a way forward.  Not backwards into the illusion that life if great, but forward through the existential hell and out the other side.

I guess when you stop wanting and needing things from human existence, you can always instead ask yourself, "What can I add to life?"

We can participate in the creative processes by adding something interesting to life, instead of only taking for ourselves.  Hmm, that might actually work.  I don't want anything, but giving a little bit sounds ok.  Maybe instead of getting what I want from life I can use my energy to do something to make life more interesting, diverse, forgiving, or free for everyone.

Except... in the case of our human world it often seems like I've been handed a turd and asked to paint something nice with it.  What I mean is that we can't really address the stubborn ignorance that pervades humanity and causes so many problems.  It's like everyone is shitting all over the world we live in, and we are just supposed to run around cleaning it up.  At what point do we say, "Fuck it.  If this is the world people create, then let them walk around in filth."

Even everybody still out there trying to get something from life is really only delaying the fundamental shift that would truly change our world.  If more folks went through the hell of realizing it is pointless trying to take from life, maybe we could get to the point where more people want to add something to our world.

So I am torn between wanting to let this world be a shithole, and needing an outlet that would allow me to create something nice.  Perhaps if I look carefully I can find some way to interact where it result in a net improvement in human experience.

I suppose that is a part of my problem.  Not only am I not adding something to life, I feel  by being a tax paying corporate servant I'm supporting greed driven systems that make life worse.  I expend my life's energy in service to corporations that would exploit anyone and everyone if it helped keep the stock price up.  Go to work = support greed.  Buy something I need = support greed.  Don't go to jail and continue to participate in society = support greed and oppression.

Basically I don't want anything from life.  Instead I want to add to life.  Yet just by participating in our often fucked up culture I feel like I am
having a net negative impact on our planet and human lives.  If I add to life it has to be a real addition.  Something unique that leaves human experience just a little bit nicer than it would have been without me.

Hmm, maybe, just maybe, if I look for the right opportunities maybe this lifetime can be used to.add something worthwhile to life.

Maybe I'll even start with the idea that it is ok not want anything from life.  That instead of dying, or going backwards to the way we used to be, we can instead push forward and explore new ways to think about our role in this human experience.


--------------------
I only use drugs medicinally.  If I don't my knees hurt from kneeling down.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
    #23875945 - 11/28/16 06:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Dude, this world is a shit hole, with or without you.  Honestly I can't read posts like yours self indulgent fantasies about whether you matter or not.  You don't!  I mean sure I skimmed over it, kind of like watching this guy "perform".

Imagine paying big money to watch this UN fuck play with his sad ass band and thinking you made it cause you were close to the front of the stage.  Fuckhead can't sing, his band is shit.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23877191 - 11/29/16 03:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

LMAO THAT MUSIC VIDEO HAHAHA

how great is that!


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23880482 - 11/30/16 01:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

worth it? ... compared to what?



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: laughingdog]
    #23880500 - 11/30/16 02:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yes!  you got it man.  Yes!


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #23880695 - 11/30/16 05:12 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Each individual experiences life with their own perception. You are the eyes of the world.

Ever heard the saying: " A thief only sees opportunities to steal"...? (Something like that :lol:)

Well, it doesn't surprise me that people who conclude that this life sucks, or is a shithole, aren't having the most fun they could be having.

Seems like a self fulfilling prophecy to me. Wake up believing your stuck in a shitty pointless existence, ouch tough day. Wake up to a new adventure where anything could happen, much cooler.

I know I'm a younger dude, so maybe life hasn't kicked my ass around like some of the vets here. But from the ass kicking I've gotten so far, it's been so worth it compared to the love, friendship, and adventure I've found.

So is it worth it?  For me it totally fucking is!

:cool:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #23880697 - 11/30/16 05:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

getting up after a hard ass kicking life throws at you is one of the must fulfilling things there is.

rite of passage really.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23880708 - 11/30/16 05:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

whenever things get tough I remember my grandfather being drafted to fight in the War (ww2) at 18 years old and poor being sent to new guinea and having to tough out things in the jungle while fighting for his life and taking orders from god knows who.

then coming back and getting married and having 7 kids and starting a successful roofing business from the ground up and raising his children catholic with great morals and strict discipline with a big emphasize on higher education even though he only went through High school.

We have nothing to complain about, unless you insist on it.  As bad as it can seem, things have only gotten easier on mankind in general over time, especially in certain nations.  I am a blessed man, and thanks to my ancestors who give me strength through their own lives I can see with a wider vision all the things that test me, including myself.

Our generation is getting weak, soft, and undisciplined.  But theres still good out there and in here.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (11/30/16 05:21 AM)


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23880909 - 11/30/16 08:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I quite agree with you Blind Ass!

:cheers:

Coincidentally, i also reflect on my grandparents' bad assery when im feeling soft. What a badass generation. They came from Cuba, where castro took everything they owned, in the late 60s. With nothing in their pocket, 3 children, cancer and other health problems, knowing no one here, they educated, and raised 3 lives. Ive witnessed them give their bottom dollar and last ounce of energy to help strangers. To this day i havent heard a single existential complaint from them.

Youre right bro, we have nothing to complain about. Excessive complaining, i believe, is a self poisoning habit kinda like cigarettes. Shooting oneself in the foot :lol:


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Invisiblerogue_pixie
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23884658 - 12/01/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
It's something that I struggle with every day of my life so far. Waking up and wishing for none existence. No dreams, no life. Just nullity.

I know that life exists without reason. It has done so for thousands of years. Yet here we are as humans and wonder why stay alive? The answer of survival doesn't quite catch because then it's also opens the door to "why surivive"?

People tell me al the time that it's worth it, that things get better. But to me hope is a cruel thing to give. Waiting for better days and hoping things turn around when there isn't proof that they will. My future is pretty much nonexistent and I don't see why people bother to keep going on. Why struggle to stay breathing when death is easier? I just can't seem to accurately solve that issue.

I want death, but paradoxically I don't want to die. But I just can't seem to see what others see that makes life worth living. Why they bother to struggle through great difficulty rather than just die.




Not everyone does, sadly. A great many people kill themselves, leaving a trail of devastation behind them. The rest of us struggle through the pain and suffering because we fear death. It's in our instinct to live, which makes us naturally terrified to die.

Since we don't know what happens when we die, who's to say the alternative isn't a lot worse? Life becomes easier when we are grateful for the little things, and stop comparing ourselves to others. I know that is easier said than done though, and something I am personally working on. Life is so fucking hard. You're not wrong.


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
    #23886319 - 12/02/16 12:02 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AllGreyThumbs said:

Why should living things even bother to continue the eternal struggle to exist?




How exactly is existence a "struggle"?  Life's a struggle because we're not in control?

Quote:

AllGreyThumbs said:

Don't really want or need anything.  No carrot on a stick I have to reach for.  So why should I put in any effort?"




Do you really think if you had a desirable carrot to chase you'd be happy? Or motivated? 

Quote:

AllGreyThumbs said:

The only other possible motivation I can come up with is try to see if there is more to life...




Do you actually think you could discover something "more to life" that would change you?

How would it feel to abandon the quest to figure life out?

How would it feel to abandon the need to believe or understand?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23892889 - 12/04/16 04:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

the question is sort of ambiguous

does it simply reflect a mood or feeling?

or

Is there supposed to be a logical answer to a supposedly deep question?

if it's a feeling or mood, it will change

if it's supposed to be a deep question, there is little chance of logics contributing anything, as folks tend to defend whatever beliefs they already have.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Is life worth living? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #23894440 - 12/04/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Your not having much fun obviously. Life is about fun. Start having some and quit pondering this existential bullshit.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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