KauaiOrca said:

amp244 said:

His book has 2.7 stars on Amazon. 51% are 1 star votes, lol.

http://www.amazon.com/Courage-Act-Memoir-Crisis-Aftermath/dp/039324721X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446000847&sr=8-1&keywords=Ben+Bernanke

---

I'm definitely not a Bernanke fan at all ... Globalist.

---

starfire_xes said:

And the first thing that anyone can do that will convince me that the government is in good faith trying to fix things, is when they take a fucking chainsaw to the budget and actually cut spending.

---

First off, I want to say that KauaiOrca really knows his shit, and I agree with all of his recent posts. 

amp244 said:

Are you familiar with the concept of timely reporting? What good is information to congress if they don't get it until years after it would have been useful?

---

amp244 said:

If you are content with private bankers who are supposed to be under the watchful eye of congress being able to implement these kinds of massive and market swinging strategies without having to disclose information in a timely manner, then again you are a lost cause.

---

amp244 said:

And you are all placing the blame on congress, but they are mere pawns in the scheme. The heart of the problem is the Fed. They are the policy setters, they are the ones pulling the strings.

---

amp244 said:

Congress has less than an hour to read the bailout bill of 1000  pages and then vote on it. They don't have a say in anything that goes on regarding the economy. That's why a few of the ones who aren't completely compromised are so damn pissed.

---

amp244 said:

So lets draw the connection. Federal Reserve is owned and operated by its private member banks ie: mega institutions on Wall Street. Wall Street controls the Federal Government. The Government delegated its constitutionally granted powers to coin money, over to the Federal Reserve who carries out what the government would have done, in complete secret. The Fed is responsible for setting policies which affect interest rates and the actions of the mega wall street institutions which just so happen to own and operate it. Congress has absolutely no say under this system. They are the ones to blame on the surface of things, but the Fed, and more specifically the multinational bankers who control it, are the actual source of the problems. These people run our country from the shadows and have no affiliation to it whatsoever.

---

Stonehenge said:

when fal knows he is wrong he never admits it he tries to change the subject and bring in irrelevant junk. He is slipperier than a bag of greased up eels but will not debate honestly. He probably thinks he is honest but constantly goes off on tangents and brings in red herrings.

---

Stonehenge said:

Amp and qman, you guys have nailed it, you did not let fal squirm out of anything or change the subject, bring in false narratives, etc even though he tried hard.

---

If I didn't squirm, change the subject, or bring in false narratives, etc, I did so by my own choice.  Thank you for acknowledging this though. 

qman said:

Banks can fail, it's NOT the end of the world. What are you going to support when the next financial crisis hits the financial sector? I assume more of the same since the ends justify the means in your mind.

---

We know from the first great depression that it's EXTREMELY difficult to recover from a great depression without a massive Government stimulus.  That's not something I care to support.

I've previously mentioned I support reform that would prevent banks from getting too big to fail, and reimplementing laws to help avert financial crises so that we don't have a "next financial crisis". 

qman said:

"so many derivatives tied to those assets"

And the justifying of bad behavior continues, my answer is so what?  If I bought car insurance from a company that was heavily leveraged and they couldn't make good on my accident insurance, I learned my lesson.

---

qman said:

"I don't think the bailouts are at fault for the inequality"

Really, the $4 trillion on the Fed's balance sheet helped Joe Six-Pack and his issues?  I don't think so.

It helped the boys on Wall Street, guess who owns the majority of the stocks, bonds, and real estate that got  pumped up?  Not Joe Six-Pack and friends.

---

qman said:

"The bailouts prevented an economic depression"

For the people at the top, how come the rich haven't suffered one bit from this real economic downturn?  Who's still worse off since before the crisis?  Main Street. During the Great Depression both the rich and middle class took the economic pain, this time around it's NOT the case.

---

qman said:

You guys want to break them up after the fact, how are you going to break up something you made even more powerful?  Not gonna happen.

---

qman said:

KauaiOrca said:

You guys do realize that a big contraction of the money supply literally guarantees a steep recession and probably, given how weak things are, a depression, right? 

The gold standard and tighter lending policy would be a shock that would bring America to its knees ... and interest rates would go higher as well.

---

Does racking up $20 trillion in Federal debt sound like a better long term alternative?  Both monetary systems have lots of flaws.

---

starfire_xes said:

This is a rhetorical question as much as anything else, but I wonder why so many people are hot and bothered about an unproven hypothesis--man made global warming,and panicked about what might happen in 20 or thirty years, but are not at all concerned about leaving a massive credit card bill for future generations to repay?

---

hostileuniverse said:

starfire_xes said:

This is a rhetorical question as much as anything else, but I wonder why so many people are hot and bothered about an unproven hypothesis--man made global warming,and panicked about what might happen in 20 or thirty years, but are not at all concerned about leaving a massive credit card bill for future generations to repay?

---

I gotta you're spot on, no taxation without representation, so how can they leave a tax bill for future generations who have no say in how any of this money is being spent? How fucking evil is that?

---

KauaiOrca said:

hostileuniverse said:

starfire_xes said:

This is a rhetorical question as much as anything else, but I wonder why so many people are hot and bothered about an unproven hypothesis--man made global warming,and panicked about what might happen in 20 or thirty years, but are not at all concerned about leaving a massive credit card bill for future generations to repay?

---

I gotta you're spot on, no taxation without representation, so how can they leave a tax bill for future generations who have no say in how any of this money is being spent? How fucking evil is that?

---

Just out of curiosity, who have you voted for in the last 4 elections, if you're old enough to vote?

---

hostileuniverse said:

Lol, what? Republican or democrat, it doesn't matter, stealing from future generations, many of whom aren't even born yet, is okay with you?

---

KauaiOrca said:

hostileuniverse said:

Lol, what? Republican or democrat, it doesn't matter, stealing from future generations, many of whom aren't even born yet, is okay with you?

---

Of course it isn't.  Show me one post that suggests I'm for increasing debt?

I'm strongly for a balanced budget amendment with prison time for elected officials that ignore it.

---

hostileuniverse said:

Agreed, but if you support programs that increase debt, you support it, just saying

---

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Banks can fail, it's NOT the end of the world. What are you going to support when the next financial crisis hits the financial sector? I assume more of the same since the ends justify the means in your mind.

---

We know from the first great depression that it's EXTREMELY difficult to recover from a great depression without a massive Government stimulus.  That's not something I care to support.

I've previously mentioned I support reform that would prevent banks from getting too big to fail, and reimplementing laws to help avert financial crises so that we don't have a "next financial crisis". 

qman said:

"so many derivatives tied to those assets"

And the justifying of bad behavior continues, my answer is so what?  If I bought car insurance from a company that was heavily leveraged and they couldn't make good on my accident insurance, I learned my lesson.

---

What's the lesson?  Not to buy car insurance???  They're not going to tell you about their financial dealings.

qman said:

"I don't think the bailouts are at fault for the inequality"

Really, the $4 trillion on the Fed's balance sheet helped Joe Six-Pack and his issues?  I don't think so.

It helped the boys on Wall Street, guess who owns the majority of the stocks, bonds, and real estate that got  pumped up?  Not Joe Six-Pack and friends.

---

Of course I agree.  But that's the fault of how Congress allocated the money they had.  They could have given a lot more to Main Street.

qman said:

"The bailouts prevented an economic depression"

For the people at the top, how come the rich haven't suffered one bit from this real economic downturn?  Who's still worse off since before the crisis?  Main Street. During the Great Depression both the rich and middle class took the economic pain, this time around it's NOT the case.

---

Agreed.  And again, Congress is to blame for how the money was allocated.

qman said:

You guys want to break them up after the fact, how are you going to break up something you made even more powerful?  Not gonna happen.

---

It wouldn't be easy, but we should elect people who campaign on breaking up too big to fail, like Elizabeth Warren for one.

qman said:

KauaiOrca said:

You guys do realize that a big contraction of the money supply literally guarantees a steep recession and probably, given how weak things are, a depression, right? 

The gold standard and tighter lending policy would be a shock that would bring America to its knees ... and interest rates would go higher as well.

---

Does racking up $20 trillion in Federal debt sound like a better long term alternative?  Both monetary systems have lots of flaws.

---

The debt has nothing to do with the monetary system we use; it has to do with the Government spending more than it collects in taxes.

---

qman said:

"The debt has nothing to do with the monetary system we use"

Yes it does, a gold standard automatically creates fiscal discipline, why do you think we left it in the first place?  We started running large fiscal deficits and didn't want the remainder of the gold to leave the US.

---

KauaiOrca said:

qman said:

"The debt has nothing to do with the monetary system we use"

Yes it does, a gold standard automatically creates fiscal discipline, why do you think we left it in the first place?  We started running large fiscal deficits and didn't want the remainder of the gold to leave the US.

---

It's amazing what dumb wars (Vietnam) and huge unfunded increases in social spending will do.  The Bretton Woods changes under Nixon were a direct reaction to the desire to break away from disciplined spending/debt levels as a result of fiscal problems created by LBJ.

Is it your position the Federal Reserve was behind our move away from the Gold Standard?

---

qman said:

KauaiOrca said:

qman said:

"The debt has nothing to do with the monetary system we use"

Yes it does, a gold standard automatically creates fiscal discipline, why do you think we left it in the first place?  We started running large fiscal deficits and didn't want the remainder of the gold to leave the US.

---

It's amazing what dumb wars (Vietnam) and huge unfunded increases in social spending will do.  The Bretton Woods changes under Nixon were a direct reaction to the desire to break away from disciplined spending/debt levels as a result of fiscal problems created by LBJ.

Is it your position the Federal Reserve was behind our move away from the Gold Standard?

---

I think the US wanted the status of the worlds reserve currency without the handcuffs of a gold standard, kind of having your cake and eating it as well.

The politicians didn't mind it, run up deficits without any ramifications in the short term.

Will a global debt reset bring back some sort of fiscal discipline that involves gold?  Could be.

---

KauaiOrca said:

.

---