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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22461307 - 11/01/15 09:52 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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>>>>>> I already noted that most of your quotes "are about the power of money, which we all agree with." Your updated quote appears to be about the power of money to influence Congress. And I agree.
I guess your brain turned off during the part where he says, "We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men." He is talking about the Federal Reserve, but you seem to be having trouble connecting the dots.
>>>>So if an instantaneous answer to a question isn't provided, getting it next day isn't sufficient? I realize the question was about something that started 8 months before the question was asked, but the answer didn't take 8 months to provide after it was asked.
Perhaps you don't know that the inspector general's job is to report to congress on the things that happen at the fed. She should have known the answer if she was doing her job. Remember that the video was posted to highlight the fact that the oversight board is completely inept, and amounts to ZERO government influence. But for some reason your brain is incapable of drawing this conclusion. LETS GO FED! LETS GO FED! LETS GO FED!
Either way, I'm done with you. The above quotes were just such ridiculous points that I had to say something. I will no longer address any more of your points, no matter how egregious a violation of rationality.
Edited by amp244 (11/01/15 10:14 AM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
#22461459 - 11/01/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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That wasn't meant as a reply to me, was it? I was just letting KO that he underestimates my supreme influence.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22461710 - 11/01/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: That wasn't meant as a reply to me, was it? I was just letting KO that he underestimates my supreme influence.
Lol, no this is a response to Falcon. I would never talk to you or KO with such disrespect. I had refrained from speaking to Falcon in this fashion until I could no longer handle his balderdash.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
#22461799 - 11/01/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
amp244 said: I guess your brain turned off during the part where he says, "We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men." Senate Doc. 23, 76th Congress, 1st Session. You'll find it on page 100.
He is talking about the Federal Reserve, but you seem to be having trouble connecting the dots.
We'd need to see the full text if the speech to understand the context. In looking for it, it turns out that you provided yet ANOTHER fake quote (by the way, the 76th Congress was in 1939; Woodrow Wilson died in 1924). You're now 0 for 3 on the truthfulness of your supporting quotes. Care to share your 4th favorite quote for analysis?
Quote:
amp244 said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: So if an instantaneous answer to a question isn't provided, getting it next day isn't sufficient?
Perhaps you don't know that the inspector general's job is to report to congress on the things that happen at the fed. She should have known the answer if she was doing her job.
You claimed "she didn't even know that it (the Fed balance sheet) expanded." I pointed out "Her answer was they were reviewing' it (the expansion)." You were clearly being dishonest.
Quote:
amp244 said: for some reason your brain is incapable of drawing this conclusion. LETS GO FED! LETS GO FED! LETS GO FED!
Another straw man. I'm simply pointing out the inaccuracies in your posts.
Quote:
amp244 said: Either way, I'm done with you. The above quotes were just such ridiculous points that I had to say something. I will no longer address any more of your points, no matter how egregious a violation of rationality.
Three of the three quotes you chose to review in further detail were fake. And you're butthurt about my interpretation of quotes that don't even exist?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22461846 - 11/01/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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By the way, I'm not here to "win" debates. I'm here to understand why conservatives think the way they do.
I'd really appreciate feedback from others about the above discussion. Are my posts balderdash, or am finding fallacies with amp's posts? (or is no one paying attention )
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22462044 - 11/01/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Three of the three quotes you chose to review in further detail were fake. And you're butthurt about my interpretation of quotes that don't even exist? 
What!!!??? I don't remember choosing three quotes for you to "review in further detail". I remember referencing a Kennedy quote, but you said three!?? And I've sourced the Wilson quote. You are fucking delusional dude. Not only can you not read, but you also can't count.
You are the lowest form of Shroomerite there is. You are below all of the others. If Elax420 is the ballsack, you are the smegma. If Webster10 is the pile of shit, you are the E. Coli.
On behalf of myself, as well as the many venerable ambassadors of the fabled Shroomery forums, I hereby declare that at this time, and on every hour henceforth, I shall take the time to conjur up from the depths of my bowels a most foul and vengeful cloud of filth and cast it off in your general direction. I shall do this whilst making you aware that though the putridness may cometh from my lone back passage, it doth represent and fulfill a purpose on behalf of an agglomeration of Shroomerite anuses. May the malignant poo poo particulate befoul your olfactories until you are rendered incognizant! Or perhaps I could afford you the privilege of being my groom of the stool, giving you sufficient opportunity to come to appreciate in time the fragarant aromas of my 'brand'. The flatulence shall not relent until such an arrangement is made. Until then, I suggest you pluggith thine nostrils. Good day sir. I SAID GOOD DAY!!
And please report me for flaming. I want a mod to read this.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
Edited by amp244 (11/01/15 12:35 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
#22462178 - 11/01/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
amp244 said: What!!!??? I don't remember choosing three quotes for you to "review in further detail". I remember referencing a Kennedy quote, but you said three!??
Fair enough - the Wilson quote was the one I thought was your strongest, but it turned out to be fake. You acknowledged that, and provided a reference to a 1939 document (Wilson died in 1924), which the internet says was another fake quote. You were unable to determine where Wilson said it, or to whom (if he did it, which is very doubtful). Your Kennedy quote also turned out to be fake.
Quote:
amp244 said: You are the lowest form of Shroomerite there is. You are below all of the others. If Elax420 is the ballsack, you are the smegma. If Webster10 is the pile of shit, you are the E. Coli.
On behalf of myself, as well as the many venerable ambassadors of the fabled Shroomery forums, I hereby declare that at this time, and on every hour henceforth, I shall take the time to conjur up from the depths of my bowels a most foul and vengeful cloud of filth and cast it off in your general direction. I shall do this whilst making you aware that though the putridness may cometh from my lone back passage, it doth represent and fulfill a purpose on behalf of an agglomeration of Shroomerite anuses. May the malignant poo poo particulate befoul your olfactories until you are rendered incognizant! Or perhaps I could afford you the privilege of being my groom of the stool, giving you sufficient opportunity to come to appreciate in time the fragarant aromas of my 'brand'. The flatulence shall not relent until such an arrangement is made. Until then, I suggest you pluggith thine nostrils. Good day sir. I SAID GOOD DAY!!
And please report me for flaming. I want a mod to read this.
Seriously - has anyone else followed this discussion at all that can comment on which side is making the stronger argument (preferably with a specific case in point)?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22462400 - 11/01/15 01:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Shit I must have copied the wrong link. I don't know how the hell I did that. Excuse me, while I provide the correct source.
Woodrow Wilson's The New Freedom: A Call for the Emancipation of the Generous Energies of a People (New York and Garden City: Doubleday, Page & Company, 1913
The quote is not fake. It is real. Once again I will edit the original post to reflect the true source.
Here is the entire paragraph from that section of the book...
"However it has come about, it is more important still that the control of credit also has become dangerously centralized. It is the mere truth to say that the financial resources of the country are not at the command of those who do not submit to the direction and domination of small groups of capitalists who wish to keep the economic development of the country under their own eye and guidance. The great monopoly in this country is the monopoly of big credits. So long as that exists, our old variety and freedom and individual energy of development are out of the question. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men who, even if their action be honest and intended for the public interest, are necessarily concentrated upon the great undertakings in which their own money is involved and who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom. This is the greatest question of all, and to this statesmen must address themselves with an earnest determination to serve the long future and the true liberties of men."
The rest of the quote comes from a different section of the book. Here it is in its entirety:
"We are at the parting of the ways. We have, not one or two or three, but many, established and formidable monopolies in the United States. We have, not one or two, but many, fields of endeavor into which it is difficult, if not impossible, for the independent man to enter. We have restricted credit, we have restricted opportunity, we have controlled development, and we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world--no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men."
Here is the full text of the book: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14811/14811.txt Press ctl + f and type in "industrial nation" or "no longer a" if you would like to be brought directly to either of the "fake" quotes.
And, I SAID GOOD DAY!
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
Edited by amp244 (11/01/15 01:59 PM)
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
#22462468 - 11/01/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Orca, this is basically what you have been saying the whole time. This is the paragraph directly preceding the first paragraph above.
"I am one of those who have been so fortunately circumstanced that I have had the opportunity to study the way in which these things come about in complete disconnection from them, and I do not suspect that any man has deliberately planned the system. I am not so uninstructed and misinformed as to suppose that there is a deliberate and malevolent combination somewhere to dominate the government of the United States. I merely say that, by certain processes, now well known, and perhaps natural in themselves, there has come about an extraordinary and very sinister concentration in the control of business in the country."
I will not quote the entire chapter but he goes into much greater detail. Here is the link to the full text again: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14811/14811.txt ("ctl + f" and type "industrial nation" to bring you to the spot)
Wilson definitely doesn't believe in the reptilian elite haha. He identifies a sinister concentration in control, but attributes it to the way things have shaken out. Like big bad wolf said earlier, all the players are moving and shaking in the same direction. That is certainly a less cynical view on the situation than the secret cabal, ivory tower, power broker position. But in any event, the threat to liberty is all the same.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
Edited by amp244 (11/01/15 02:02 PM)
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
#22462531 - 11/01/15 02:03 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seriously - has anyone else followed this discussion at all that can comment on which side is making the stronger argument (preferably with a specific case in point)?
did you just seriously ask for your bros to come in and "back you up"?
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22462580 - 11/01/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seriously - has anyone else followed this discussion at all that can comment on which side is making the stronger argument (preferably with a specific case in point)?
I know that nobody is reading this shit but me and you Falcon because everytime I encounter one of the arguments you've been having with others where you quote every third sentence from their post and completely misinterpret what they say, I don't read it.
Nobody gives a shit about this stupid argument.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
Edited by amp244 (11/01/15 02:15 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
#22462630 - 11/01/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just don't have the time to get involved in deep discussions like this one these days. I can only pop in and comment with information that is readily at hand. That's why it's so easy to respond to HU's posts, because they are all so clearly and the counter arguments are readily available to anyone with half a brain.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
#22462746 - 11/01/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
amp244 said: Shit I must have copied the wrong link. I don't know how the hell I did that. Excuse me, while I provide the correct source.
Woodrow Wilson's The New Freedom: A Call for the Emancipation of the Generous Energies of a People (New York and Garden City: Doubleday, Page & Company, 1913
The quote is not fake. It is real. Once again I will edit the original post to reflect the true source.
Here is the entire paragraph from that section of the book...
"However it has come about, it is more important still that the control of credit also has become dangerously centralized. It is the mere truth to say that the financial resources of the country are not at the command of those who do not submit to the direction and domination of small groups of capitalists who wish to keep the economic development of the country under their own eye and guidance. The great monopoly in this country is the monopoly of big credits. So long as that exists, our old variety and freedom and individual energy of development are out of the question. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men who, even if their action be honest and intended for the public interest, are necessarily concentrated upon the great undertakings in which their own money is involved and who necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations, chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom. This is the greatest question of all, and to this statesmen must address themselves with an earnest determination to serve the long future and the true liberties of men."
The rest of the quote comes from a different section of the book. Here it is in its entirety:
"We are at the parting of the ways. We have, not one or two or three, but many, established and formidable monopolies in the United States. We have, not one or two, but many, fields of endeavor into which it is difficult, if not impossible, for the independent man to enter. We have restricted credit, we have restricted opportunity, we have controlled development, and we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world--no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men."
Here is the full text of the book: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14811/14811.txt Press ctl + f and type in "industrial nation" or "no longer a" if you would like to be brought directly to either of the "fake" quotes.
THANK YOU! That IS a real quote, and it was published in 1913 BEFORE THE FEDERAL RESERVE EVEN EXISTED! It was argument against the big banks control of the nation's credit, in FAVOR of a system where Government could break away from that reliance on big banks for credit. Shortly after he wrote that, he passed the Federal Reserve Act.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
#22462766 - 11/01/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: did you just seriously ask for your bros to come in and "back you up"?

NO. I'd appreciate your input as well. But remember that I did request "a specific case in point".
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 3 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22462799 - 11/01/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: did you just seriously ask for your bros to come in and "back you up"?

NO. I'd appreciate your input as well. But remember that I did request "a specific case in point".
I think you're asking too much of him lmao
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
#22463210 - 11/01/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is a big tradeoff that is made when gigantic banking and industrial corporations grow and grow to take on bigger and bigger challenges ... railroads, harvesting oil, building infrastructure, building military weaponry, the computer/information age ... It requires a shitload of capital, credit, organization, resources ... And that's the opportunity for wealth to grow at rates that the planet has never really seen before. Have there been a lot of history banking families that did cross way over the line and exploit their unique advantages? ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY!!!!
We get, as a tradeoff, airplanes, cars, computers, jobs, retirement packages, drugs, you name it. It takes huge sums of money to organize that kind of progress ... Think of all the projects, buildings being built, products being made, infrastructure, billions of gallons of fuel ... It's all happening simultaneously around the planet serving 7 billion people. And that creates a huge opportunity for cunning financial titans.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22463361 - 11/01/15 05:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: There is a big tradeoff that is made when gigantic banking and industrial corporations grow and grow to take on bigger and bigger challenges ... railroads, harvesting oil, building infrastructure, building military weaponry, the computer/information age ... It requires a shitload of capital, credit, organization, resources ... And that's the opportunity for wealth to grow at rates that the planet has never really seen before. Have there been a lot of history banking families that did cross way over the line and exploit their unique advantages? ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY!!!!
We get, as a tradeoff, airplanes, cars, computers, jobs, retirement packages, drugs, you name it. It takes huge sums of money to organize that kind of progress ... Think of all the projects, buildings being built, products being made, infrastructure, billions of gallons of fuel ... It's all happening simultaneously around the planet serving 7 billion people. And that creates a huge opportunity for cunning financial titans.
I think that I would be happy with the style of Capitalism that we have today, if there was a social understanding that a tight labor market is necessary for the empowerment of labor, and the government picked up the slack of providing jobs to anyone who couldn't get one in the private sector. If there is a labor shortage wages will go up, workplace conditions improve, and the wealth gap shrinks.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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amp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#22463817 - 11/01/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
It was argument against the big banks control of the nation's credit, in FAVOR of a system where Government could break away from that reliance on big banks for credit. Shortly after he wrote that, he passed the Federal Reserve Act.
So do you think that the Federal Reserve act was a way to break away from banker control of the government exercised through the issuance of credit? Yes or no question.
-------------------- How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer "Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22463932 - 11/01/15 07:34 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: There is a big tradeoff that is made when gigantic banking and industrial corporations grow and grow to take on bigger and bigger challenges ... railroads, harvesting oil, building infrastructure, building military weaponry, the computer/information age ... It requires a shitload of capital, credit, organization, resources ... And that's the opportunity for wealth to grow at rates that the planet has never really seen before. Have there been a lot of history banking families that did cross way over the line and exploit their unique advantages? ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY!!!!
We get, as a tradeoff, airplanes, cars, computers, jobs, retirement packages, drugs, you name it. It takes huge sums of money to organize that kind of progress ... Think of all the projects, buildings being built, products being made, infrastructure, billions of gallons of fuel ... It's all happening simultaneously around the planet serving 7 billion people. And that creates a huge opportunity for cunning financial titans.
I think that I would be happy with the style of Capitalism that we have today, if there was a social understanding that a tight labor market is necessary for the empowerment of labor, and the government picked up the slack of providing jobs to anyone who couldn't get one in the private sector. If there is a labor shortage wages will go up, workplace conditions improve, and the wealth gap shrinks.
Which comes back to why I don't think there's nearly as coordinated a one world order kind of financial organization at the top. If there were, they could surely organize it better so there is more financial parity and less social problems for them to deal with. Why in the world would leadership want an increasingly angry population.
what it is is simply lots and lots of competing wealthy groups fighting out, getting as much a s they can with little regard for how much damage they do along the way. A lot like mafia families.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
#22463983 - 11/01/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
amp244 said: Orca, this is basically what you have been saying the whole time. This is the paragraph directly preceding the first paragraph above.
"I am one of those who have been so fortunately circumstanced that I have had the opportunity to study the way in which these things come about in complete disconnection from them, and I do not suspect that any man has deliberately planned the system. I am not so uninstructed and misinformed as to suppose that there is a deliberate and malevolent combination somewhere to dominate the government of the United States. I merely say that, by certain processes, now well known, and perhaps natural in themselves, there has come about an extraordinary and very sinister concentration in the control of business in the country."
I will not quote the entire chapter but he goes into much greater detail. Here is the link to the full text again: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14811/14811.txt ("ctl + f" and type "industrial nation" to bring you to the spot)
Wilson definitely doesn't believe in the reptilian elite haha. He identifies a sinister concentration in control, but attributes it to the way things have shaken out. Like big bad wolf said earlier, all the players are moving and shaking in the same direction. That is certainly a less cynical view on the situation than the secret cabal, ivory tower, power broker position. But in any event, the threat to liberty is all the same.
I think this is it. The one very inconvenient fact with the entire new world order argument that makes it all fall apart is the Presidency of GHWB. If ever there was a one world order president to usher it all in, surely it was GHWB. A Bush, direct ties to Nazis and banks that funded them, head of the CIA at the height of the cold war AND UFO controversy, VP for 8 years and then he has a very ordinary presidency. No real major legislation passed ... no big economic changes. Loses re-election and becomes an average one termer. He was there man, if there was such a plan and nothing happened.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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