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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22446224 - 10/28/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
I don't think it serves any purpose showing a chart in which the US won the largest war in world history and trying to compare it to today.  There's a reason why the debt got retired, we had massive economic activity after the war, it wasn't the tax rates.

Do you see the US entering and winning WW3 on the horizon?



The war happened in the early 1940's.  Debt/GDP went down in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.

It was Reagan that reversed the trend with the tax cut you see in the early 80's.

War is actually one of the least efficient ways Government can spend our money.  Yes, the spending stimulates the economy, but there's no secondary benefit.  If we spent that same money on infrastructure projects, education, or other public projects, it would both stimulate the economy AND provide an additional benefit to society at the same time.





Yup, I agree, we should have let the Germans win WW1 and 2, then we'd be solvent, lol


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22446238 - 10/28/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Well, forget about any fiscal responsibility. D's and R's are lining up behind Boehner/Obama spend like drunken sailors in a whorehouse spending bill.  And defense gets a big shitload of money again, including funding to start the Flying Fort Knox version2, AKA the B3 bomber.  theres enough pork in this one to get most all of congress lining up at the troughs.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22446249 - 10/28/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Well, forget about any fiscal responsibility. D's and R's are lining up behind Boehner/Obama spend like drunken sailors in a whorehouse spending bill.  And defense gets a big shitload of money again, including funding to start the Flying Fort Knox version2, AKA the B3 bomber.  theres enough pork in this one to get most all of congress lining up at the troughs.





I agree, but the partisans want to ONLY blame the GOP, what's a sane person to do?


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22446270 - 10/28/15 07:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Well, forget about any fiscal responsibility. D's and R's are lining up behind Boehner/Obama spend like drunken sailors in a whorehouse spending bill.  And defense gets a big shitload of money again, including funding to start the Flying Fort Knox version2, AKA the B3 bomber.  theres enough pork in this one to get most all of congress lining up at the troughs.





I agree, but the partisans want to ONLY blame the GOP, what's a sane person to do?




You blamed the increase of Reagan's deficit on a democrat congress.  Are you blaming the deficit increases of Obama's term on 6 years of a GOP controlled congress?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22446280 - 10/28/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Well, forget about any fiscal responsibility. D's and R's are lining up behind Boehner/Obama spend like drunken sailors in a whorehouse spending bill.  And defense gets a big shitload of money again, including funding to start the Flying Fort Knox version2, AKA the B3 bomber.  theres enough pork in this one to get most all of congress lining up at the troughs.





I agree, but the partisans want to ONLY blame the GOP, what's a sane person to do?




You blamed the increase of Reagan's deficit on a democrat congress.  Are you blaming the deficit increases of Obama's term on 6 years of a GOP controlled congress?




Of course! Do you credit clintons supposedly surplus to the GOP?


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Offlineqman
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22446282 - 10/28/15 07:29 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
I don't think it serves any purpose showing a chart in which the US won the largest war in world history and trying to compare it to today.  There's a reason why the debt got retired, we had massive economic activity after the war, it wasn't the tax rates.

Do you see the US entering and winning WW3 on the horizon?



The war happened in the early 1940's.  Debt/GDP went down in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.

It was Reagan that reversed the trend with the tax cut you see in the early 80's.

War is actually one of the least efficient ways Government can spend our money.  Yes, the spending stimulates the economy, but there's no secondary benefit.  If we spent that same money on infrastructure projects, education, or other public projects, it would both stimulate the economy AND provide an additional benefit to society at the same time.



:whathesaid:




Was anyone advocating going to war?  No, we are discussing the aftermath of WW 2 and the economic implications.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22446296 - 10/28/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Well, forget about any fiscal responsibility. D's and R's are lining up behind Boehner/Obama spend like drunken sailors in a whorehouse spending bill.  And defense gets a big shitload of money again, including funding to start the Flying Fort Knox version2, AKA the B3 bomber.  theres enough pork in this one to get most all of congress lining up at the troughs.





I agree, but the partisans want to ONLY blame the GOP, what's a sane person to do?




You blamed the increase of Reagan's deficit on a democrat congress.  Are you blaming the deficit increases of Obama's term on 6 years of a GOP controlled congress?




Actually you are partially correct.  Boehner and Bitch sucking Obama's cock big time.  Obama is getting more done with those two assclowns than he ever did with Pelosi/Reid.

And that's why  Boehner got fired.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22446778 - 10/28/15 09:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The war happened in the early 1940's.  Debt/GDP went down in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.





The US WON the war, Europe and Asia needed to be rebuilt as the US was untouched, the US had the competitive advantage, that's why we erased the debt during the 50's and 60's.



If it's true we had a competitive advantage over other countries, can you explain how would that would reduce our debt?  I assume you think that a competitive advantage means we were able to have a better balance of trade, and therefore have more revenue for taxes, right?  But our balance of trade surplus only lasted for about 5 years after WWII:



So how do you think it helped?  :shrug:
(notice how the balance of trade became negative around 1980.  Everything in the US went downhill in 1980.  What the fuck happened in 1980???)

Quote:

qman said:
The US dollar became the world's reserve currency from WINNING the war, that was a key element.



And it wasn't anymore in 1980?  :shrug:


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/28/15 11:52 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22446862 - 10/28/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
War is actually one of the least efficient ways Government can spend our money.  Yes, the spending stimulates the economy, but there's no secondary benefit.  If we spent that same money on infrastructure projects, education, or other public projects, it would both stimulate the economy AND provide an additional benefit to society at the same time.



Yup, I agree, we should have let the Germans win WW1 and 2, then we'd be solvent, lol



Another fucking straw man?  I'm usually pretty mellow, but god damn, can please stop with the straw man arguments?


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22447010 - 10/28/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Yes a one Reagan had mostly a democrat congress, and Clinton had mostly a GOP congress, do you people really not know that CONGRESS spends money, NOT the president? Or is this more willful ignorance from the left?



Bullshit x2
1. Reagan had a republican senate during first six years.  1980, when the republicans finally took control, is when the Government turned from a Government for the people to a Government for the corporation.
2. The President is the one with the real power on the budget.  He proposes the budget, and after Congress gets it, it comes back to the President to either sign or veto.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/28/15 10:31 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22447033 - 10/28/15 10:27 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
I don't think it serves any purpose showing a chart in which the US won the largest war in world history and trying to compare it to today.  There's a reason why the debt got retired, we had massive economic activity after the war, it wasn't the tax rates.

Do you see the US entering and winning WW3 on the horizon?



The war happened in the early 1940's.  Debt/GDP went down in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.

It was Reagan that reversed the trend with the tax cut you see in the early 80's.

War is actually one of the least efficient ways Government can spend our money.  Yes, the spending stimulates the economy, but there's no secondary benefit.  If we spent that same money on infrastructure projects, education, or other public projects, it would both stimulate the economy AND provide an additional benefit to society at the same time.





Yup, I agree, we should have let the Germans win WW1 and 2, then we'd be solvent, lol




Nobody said that. Another strawman.

I do think there is an element that falcon is missing in this particular argument, but he pretty much covered it in his next statement, so I won't go over it.

By the way, presidents DO have a HUGE impact on spending. It's not JUST congress. Don't fucking kid yourself.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22447037 - 10/28/15 10:28 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

qman said:
Was anyone advocating going to war?



There's a reason why the debt got retired, we had massive economic activity after the war, it wasn't the tax rates.

Do you see the US entering and winning WW3 on the horizon?



Perhaps not 'advocating' war, but your solution to getting out of debt is winning a war.  I'm saying we can take even smarter actions than fighting a war.  Unless you come up with figures that back your statement up (I showed the balance of trade didn't improve), I'll disagree.


--------------------
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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22447039 - 10/28/15 10:30 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Yes a one Reagan had mostly a democrat congress, and Clinton had mostly a GOP congress, do you people really not know that CONGRESS spends money, NOT the president? Or is this more willful ignorance from the left?



Bullshit x2
1. Reagan had a republican senate during first six years.
2. The President is the one with the real power on the budget.  He proposes the budget, and after Congress gets it, it comes back to the President to either sign or veto.




Right, and an agreement MUST be made, within a certain timeframe, so if the president is a hardass he can generally get what he wants. It's harder to get the majority of congress to play chicken, though Republicans are getting just crazy enough to do it nowadays. The did shut down the fucking government in the name of grandstanding retardation for a while over the ACA.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22447052 - 10/28/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

qman said:
Was anyone advocating going to war?



There's a reason why the debt got retired, we had massive economic activity after the war, it wasn't the tax rates.

Do you see the US entering and winning WW3 on the horizon?



Perhaps not 'advocating' war, but your solution to getting out of debt is winning a war.  I'm saying we can take even smarter actions than fighting a war.  Unless you come up with figures that back your statement up (I showed the balance of trade didn't improve), I'll disagree.




I think qman has a point here. It wasn't just that we won a war. It was a 'World War', and almost all of Europe had been destroyed. America was virtually untouched, and the rest of the world needed America to help them rebuild. That is quite a unique situation. Worldwide competition had been leveled to the point that America dominated everything, and we even had women joining the workforce to boot.

However, I don't think that can explain 30 booming years of economic prosperity and Federal solvency. That is the point I was referring to earlier.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22447056 - 10/28/15 10:35 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
an agreement MUST be made, within a certain timeframe, so if the president is a hardass he can generally get what he wants. It's harder to get the majority of congress to play chicken, though Republicans are getting just crazy enough to do it nowadays. The did shut down the fucking government in the name of grandstanding retardation for a while over the ACA.



And still, the President got the ACA.  He's the one with more power.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22447083 - 10/28/15 10:41 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I think qman has a point here. It wasn't just that we won a war. It was a 'World War', and almost all of Europe had been destroyed. America was virtually untouched, and the rest of the world needed America to help them rebuild. That is quite a unique situation.



Did they?  Or did they rebuild themselves?  I showed a graph of trade during that time and it doesn't look like we exported anymore than we used to.  :shrug:

qman is definitely one of the smarter guys on here, and I enjoy debating him.  Let's see if he can come up with another explanation for our prosperity, since it doesn't appear to me to be export dominance.

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
However, I don't think that can explain 30 booming years of economic prosperity and Federal solvency. That is the point I was referring to earlier.



Agreed.  Even it were an explanation for a temporary boom, it wouldn't explain 30 years worth (unless there's some evidence I'm not aware of that has yet to be presented).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22447158 - 10/28/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Apparently I missed your graph. I've long held this understanding, but maybe I am wrong afterall.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22447299 - 10/28/15 11:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Apparently I missed your graph. I've long held this understanding, but maybe I am wrong afterall.



I think it's an argument conservatives make so they can ignore the tremendous benefits of the New Deal.



We had a little spike after the war that lasted about 5 years.  That's about it.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/29/15 01:54 AM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #22447355 - 10/29/15 12:03 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, that is a very interesting graph.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22447448 - 10/29/15 12:30 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks.  Always nice to know that someone appreciates real data over straw man arguments.  :wink:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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