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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 4 hours, 15 minutes
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22466717 - 11/02/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's quite the exaggeration.  I can tell you my own company is borrowing through the roof right now for cap ex.




We are talking about the overall picture, not your specific experience.  Why do you think the 5 year trades at 1.5% and the 10 year trades at 2.1% today?  Because there's no inflation or velocity of money taking place, it's still dropping.

That's not the sign of a growing economy, that's the sign of a economy that's barely moving.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22466722 - 11/02/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
It absolutely crushed savers that rely on interest rate based dividend income, that's for sure.  Double edged sword with interest rates.




Exactly this^^^
For a party that always yaps about helping the middle class, they sure have been fucking us over with these interest rates. I would suggest that's part of the plan though, it's common knowledge the democrat party needs a permanent underclass to stay in power...



"Absolutely crushed" may be an exaggeration, as interest rates never went negative, and these people didn't take losses like so many others.

Also, is 5% interest when there's 5% inflation better than 0% interest with 0% inflation?  I think they're pretty much the same.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22466773 - 11/02/15 02:03 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
So do you think that the Federal Reserve act was a way to break away from banker control of the government exercised through the issuance of credit? Yes or no question.



Absolutely!

If Government wanted to borrow money before the Fed, say to help a weak economy, or to wage a war, it had to borrow at market rates.  If it needed a lot of money, it had to sell a lot of bonds, and interest rates had to be high enough to sell it all to the market, hurting the taxpayer.

By creating its own bank that serves the US Government, Government effectively gave itself the ability to fund itself as needed, and to set its own interest rates.  It has far more freedom to borrow when times are tough (or when times aren't so tough, as we've seen since Reagan).  The Fed can even create money out of thin air to buy Government bonds when Government really needs money (this also creates a lot of demand for such bonds, reducing interest rates to the taxpayer).  Obviously, to prevent hyperinflation, the Fed will sell the bonds and retire that money from the system, or it can increase inflation to slow inflation.

So again, "yes"!

And that's just the benefit of obtaining credit.  It also helped stabilize the boom bust cycles that were so damaging to the US economy, and stabilized interest rates so people could better plan for their future.




But congress has always had the right to create and circulate its own currency! All of this money that they are borrowing from the Fed at interest could have all been created Debt free. The exact same benefits you say the Fed allows, were easily obtainable in house, debt free! Yes the Fed gives its profits back to the Treasury, but lets not forget about those 6% dividends (typical sp 500 dividends are from 2-4%). All of this stabilization you speak of could have been done in house and would have been had that clumsy Lincoln not have foolishly gotten the back of his head blown off.

The Federal Reserve is just another way for private bankers to control the government through the issuance of credit, and even worse, the monopoly of its currency. By masquerading as a "quasi-government entity" and calling it the "Federal" Reserve, it gives you the impression that it is part of the government, when in fact it receives no funding appropriated by congress and its decisions do not have to be approved by anyone in the Executive or Legislative branches. All they have to do is attempt to satisfy their subjective mission statement.

Lets look at their duties as described in said mission statement and assess how good of a job they have been doing:

1.) Conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
Hmm. Employment not at all in good shape, prices stable alright - stably rising, interest-rates lower than ever.


I can see how someone could make the argument that prices have been more stable from year to year since the Fed, although that certainly wasn't the case for the first 40 years or so. You may find it interesting that $1 in 1800 was worth roughly the same as $1 in 1945. How did we manage the back end of the industrial revolution and WWI without our beloved inflation? Also note that ever since we went off the gold standard in 1933 the value of the dollar has been destroyed. As we have all seen in the most recent increases to the money supply, the new dollars disproportionately go to the rich, meaning the working class's purchasing power has greatly diminished. According to the U.S. Census Bureau there are now more people on some form of government relief (TANF, Food Stamps, Medicaid) than there are full-time year round workers. I'm by no means a Republican, but I can't ignore that fact. But hey, if you like big government, ballooning welfare, income inequality, destruction of currency, and diminishing purchasing power, than I suppose the Fed is doing a great job!


2.) Supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
Sure could have used some of that supervision 8 years ago. Im glad they are there to "ensure the safety and soundness" of our capital.

3.) Maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
Sure could have used that risk assessment 8 years ago when banks were leveraged to the gills with risky derivatives. Remember, you've got to play on the outside, and double down when you lose. As long as there is no limit, you'll always win!

4.) Providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system
I guess 1 out of 4 ain't bad.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22466812 - 11/02/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
So do you think that the Federal Reserve act was a way to break away from banker control of the government exercised through the issuance of credit? Yes or no question.



Absolutely!

If Government wanted to borrow money before the Fed, say to help a weak economy, or to wage a war, it had to borrow at market rates.  If it needed a lot of money, it had to sell a lot of bonds, and interest rates had to be high enough to sell it all to the market, hurting the taxpayer.

By creating its own bank that serves the US Government, Government effectively gave itself the ability to fund itself as needed, and to set its own interest rates.  It has far more freedom to borrow when times are tough (or when times aren't so tough, as we've seen since Reagan).  The Fed can even create money out of thin air to buy Government bonds when Government really needs money (this also creates a lot of demand for such bonds, reducing interest rates to the taxpayer).  Obviously, to prevent hyperinflation, the Fed will sell the bonds and retire that money from the system, or it can increase inflation to slow inflation.

So again, "yes"!

And that's just the benefit of obtaining credit.  It also helped stabilize the boom bust cycles that were so damaging to the US economy, and stabilized interest rates so people could better plan for their future.




But congress has always had the right to create and circulate its own currency! All of this money that they are borrowing from the Fed at interest could have all been created Debt free. The exact same benefits you say the Fed allows, were easily obtainable in house, debt free! Yes the Fed gives its profits back to the Treasury, but lets not forget about those 6% dividends (typical sp 500 dividends are from 2-4%). All of this stabilization you speak of could have been done in house and would have been had that clumsy Lincoln not have foolishly gotten the back of his head blown off.

The Federal Reserve is just another way for private bankers to control the government through the issuance of credit, and even worse, the monopoly of its currency. By masquerading as a "quasi-government entity" and calling it the "Federal" Reserve, it gives you the impression that it is part of the government, when in fact it receives no funding appropriated by congress and its decisions do not have to be approved by anyone in the Executive or Legislative branches. All they have to do is attempt to satisfy their subjective mission statement.

Lets look at their duties as described in said mission statement and assess how good of a job they have been doing:

1.) Conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
Hmm. Employment not at all in good shape, prices stable alright - stably rising, interest-rates lower than ever.


I can see how someone could make the argument that prices have been more stable from year to year since the Fed, although that certainly wasn't the case for the first 40 years or so. You may find it interesting that $1 in 1800 was worth roughly the same as $1 in 1945. How did we manage the back end of the industrial revolution and WWI without our beloved inflation? Also note that ever since we went off the gold standard in 1933 the value of the dollar has been destroyed. As we have all seen in the most recent increases to the money supply, the new dollars disproportionately go to the rich, meaning the working class's purchasing power has greatly diminished. According to the U.S. Census Bureau there are now more people on some form of government relief (TANF, Food Stamps, Medicaid) than there are full-time year round workers. I'm by no means a Republican, but I can't ignore that fact. But hey, if you like big government, ballooning welfare, income inequality, destruction of currency, and diminishing purchasing power, than I suppose the Fed is doing a great job!


2.) Supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
Sure could have used some of that supervision 8 years ago. Im glad they are there to "ensure the safety and soundness" of our capital.

3.) Maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
Sure could have used that risk assessment 8 years ago when banks were leveraged to the gills with risky derivatives. Remember, you've got to play on the outside, and double down when you lose. As long as there is no limit, you'll always win!

4.) Providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments system
I guess 1 out of 4 ain't bad.




Amp - Do you really think our Congress, as screwed up and dysfunctional as it is, so sensitive to the political cycle, would make good decisions and monetary policy on its own?

I'm not saying they can't do it, I just think monetary policy would become  hyper politicized which would be a BIG mistake!


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22466814 - 11/02/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
But, the interest rate lock down did help quite a few people avoid foreclosure.  All in all, though, I think QE has been a pretty solid failure.



You seriously don't think a few extra trillion dollars helped the economy?  You don't think businesses are doing surprisingly well right now?

I'll certainly agree Main St isn't doing as good as Wall St, but that's not because the economy is awful, it's because Congress isn't helping Main St.




Yes the businesses are doing surprisingly well because they are being bolstered by Keynesian pseudo-demand. None of this is a natural market reaction. You can't just keep employing tactics to circumvent correction periods forever. Eventually the world will stop taking your dollar. Otherwise we could all stop working and have the FED just print us money.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22466822 - 11/02/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Why do you think the 5 year trades at 1.5% and the 10 year trades at 2.1% today?  Because there's no inflation or velocity of money taking place, it's still dropping.

That's not the sign of a growing economy, that's the sign of a economy that's barely moving.



GDP growth is the best measure of a growing economy.  United States GDP growth averages about 3.2 percent per year, and now it's in the high 2's, so while not ideal just yet, it's not terrible either.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22466823 - 11/02/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:

Yes the businesses are doing surprisingly well because they are being bolstered by Keynesian pseudo-demand. None of this is a natural market reaction. You can't just keep employing tactics to circumvent correction periods forever. Eventually the world will stop taking your dollar. Otherwise we could all stop working and have the FED just print us money.




Pretty much the whole world is doing this, though so it's a level playing field.  IF the US was the only country inflating it's markets, that would be a different story but Japan and Europe are at least as aggressive as we are.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 4 hours, 15 minutes
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22466856 - 11/02/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Why do you think the 5 year trades at 1.5% and the 10 year trades at 2.1% today?  Because there's no inflation or velocity of money taking place, it's still dropping.

That's not the sign of a growing economy, that's the sign of a economy that's barely moving.



GDP growth is the best measure of a growing economy.  United States GDP growth averages about 3.2 percent per year, and now it's in the high 2's, so while not ideal just yet, it's not terrible either.




Really, GDP is the best measurement?  If a company like Apple manufactures Iphones in Indonesia and then sells that phone all over the globe, should that be considered good for the US economy?

Main Street does not feel this great 2% GDP growth at all.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22466878 - 11/02/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Why do you think the 5 year trades at 1.5% and the 10 year trades at 2.1% today?  Because there's no inflation or velocity of money taking place, it's still dropping.

That's not the sign of a growing economy, that's the sign of a economy that's barely moving.



GDP growth is the best measure of a growing economy.  United States GDP growth averages about 3.2 percent per year, and now it's in the high 2's, so while not ideal just yet, it's not terrible either.




Really, GDP is the best measurement?  If a company like Apple manufactures Iphones in Indonesia and then sells that phone all over the globe, should that be considered good for the US economy?

Main Street does not feel this great 2% GDP growth at all.




I tend to agree with you that GDP has become a much less effective measure of economic growth over the last couple of decades.  It's not something to ignore completely but wage statistics, consumer spending and the real employment numbers tell a much better picture.  The headline employment number, however, is a complete joke.  Gotta look at all of it.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22466883 - 11/02/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Amp - Do you really think our Congress, as screwed up and dysfunctional as it is, so sensitive to the political cycle, would make good decisions and monetary policy on its own?

I'm not saying they can't do it, I just think monetary policy would become  hyper politicized which would be a BIG mistake!




If Wall Street was driven out of politics and the Democratic Republic was restored to Constitutional adherence, then yes. If politicians represented the common man and not Wall Street, yes. If people were educated and politicians made an effort to inform the public of not only what they were doing, but why they were doing it, I don't see why monetary policy should not be a political issue.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22466895 - 11/02/15 02:34 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Amp - Do you really think our Congress, as screwed up and dysfunctional as it is, so sensitive to the political cycle, would make good decisions and monetary policy on its own?

I'm not saying they can't do it, I just think monetary policy would become  hyper politicized which would be a BIG mistake!




If Wall Street was driven out of politics and the Democratic Republic was restored to Constitutional adherence, then yes. If politicians represented the common man and not Wall Street, yes. If people were educated and politicians made an effort to inform the public of not only what they were doing, but why they were doing it, I don't see why monetary policy should not be a political issue.




I think you'd agree that's one WHOPPER of an "IF" ... to put it mildly.

Wall Street owns our political process now, If Wall Street means all of Corporate America ... People are getting  more dumbed down and politics is a game of deception.

Things are going in the opposite direction of what you're describing.  I guess that's the problem with a lot of the "Fed's the Problem" speak.  We are so far away, as a nation, from where we need to be to have honest government that the FED, right now, is the best thing going about our monetary system.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22466922 - 11/02/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Amp - Do you really think our Congress, as screwed up and dysfunctional as it is, so sensitive to the political cycle, would make good decisions and monetary policy on its own?

I'm not saying they can't do it, I just think monetary policy would become  hyper politicized which would be a BIG mistake!




If Wall Street was driven out of politics and the Democratic Republic was restored to Constitutional adherence, then yes. If politicians represented the common man and not Wall Street, yes. If people were educated and politicians made an effort to inform the public of not only what they were doing, but why they were doing it, I don't see why monetary policy should not be a political issue.




If all of those things were true, the Fed wouldn't be a problem at all. Everything would be solved if the public was educated and informed, and mkney didnt influence politics.

I really think we need to step back from worshipping the constitution. It certainly is a legislative masterpiece, but nothing is beyond critique, and when we shove it up in a pedestal we collectively ban dissent. Just throwing that out there.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22466929 - 11/02/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:

I really think we need to step back from worshipping the constitution. It certainly is a legislative masterpiece, but nothing is beyond critique, and when we shove it up in a pedestal we collectively ban dissent. Just throwing that out there.




Couldn't agree more, Woof ... I'd like to see a really serious constitutional convention to take a look at some important updates for the 21st Century ...


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22466966 - 11/02/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

amp244 said:

Yes the businesses are doing surprisingly well because they are being bolstered by Keynesian pseudo-demand. None of this is a natural market reaction. You can't just keep employing tactics to circumvent correction periods forever. Eventually the world will stop taking your dollar. Otherwise we could all stop working and have the FED just print us money.




Pretty much the whole world is doing this, though so it's a level playing field.  IF the US was the only country inflating it's markets, that would be a different story but Japan and Europe are at least as aggressive as we are.




Its a terrible thing. A clear and present crisis. Without a debt reset, this money will have to be paid back at some point by our future generations. They won't have the privilege of spending more than they produce, they will have to spend far less than they produce. Its unbelievable that the world is altogether in the same position in its credit cycles. We're ALL spending more than we produce.
http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22467015 - 11/02/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Amp - Do you really think our Congress, as screwed up and dysfunctional as it is, so sensitive to the political cycle, would make good decisions and monetary policy on its own?

I'm not saying they can't do it, I just think monetary policy would become  hyper politicized which would be a BIG mistake!




If Wall Street was driven out of politics and the Democratic Republic was restored to Constitutional adherence, then yes. If politicians represented the common man and not Wall Street, yes. If people were educated and politicians made an effort to inform the public of not only what they were doing, but why they were doing it, I don't see why monetary policy should not be a political issue.




I think you'd agree that's one WHOPPER of an "IF" ... to put it mildly.

Wall Street owns our political process now, If Wall Street means all of Corporate America ... People are getting  more dumbed down and politics is a game of deception.

Things are going in the opposite direction of what you're describing.  I guess that's the problem with a lot of the "Fed's the Problem" speak.  We are so far away, as a nation, from where we need to be to have honest government that the FED, right now, is the best thing going about our monetary system.




You have to understand that the money controlling the government cannot be separated from the Fed. We are no better off with the Fed than we would be if congress did the same job with money influencing what they do. The Fed simply cuts out the middleman.

I understand that politicians and the government are corrupt. I want that to change. I think its a huge copout to just accept that as fact and go about how to work within those confines. The constitution was designed specifically to limit the power of the Federal Government for this very reason. Yes we should tailor the constitution to function within our modern economies, but the principles that lay within that constitution are still fundamentally sound and need to be adhered to. Its entire creation was centered around liberty and prosperity. The constitution was conceived to protect you. We don't have problems because of a deficient constitution, we have problems because of a Federal Government that has over stepped its boundaries and been taken over by wall street. Step 1, get wall street out. That's what we need to be focusing on. Its ridiculous to say that it will never happen and that we must simply learn to live with it. We must take the power back.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22467028 - 11/02/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
If all of those things were true, the Fed wouldn't be a problem at all. Everything would be solved if the public was educated and informed, and mkney didnt influence politics.




What goes on at the Fed is entirely out of the public eye. The Fed is owned by private bankers. The Fed is the vehicle for which they control this country and they do so shrouded in secrecy.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


Edited by amp244 (11/02/15 03:21 PM)


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22467032 - 11/02/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I really think we need to step back from worshipping the constitution. It certainly is a legislative masterpiece, but nothing is beyond critique, and when we shove it up in a pedestal we collectively ban dissent. Just throwing that out there.





I don't think we've seriously followed it in at least a hundred years, we been chipping away at the limits of govt for a loooooong time


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22467082 - 11/02/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I really think we need to step back from worshipping the constitution. It certainly is a legislative masterpiece, but nothing is beyond critique, and when we shove it up in a pedestal we collectively ban dissent. Just throwing that out there.




The constitution does not ban dissent in anyway shape or form. The constitution gives us the power to completely destroy and rewrite it in any way we see fit. The constitution can be amended. It is not a static piece of legislation by any means.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22467107 - 11/02/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:

I don't think we've seriously followed it in at least a hundred years, we been chipping away at the limits of govt for a loooooong time




Of course we "follow" it.  We have three branches of government that do their best to "follow it."  The fact is, it's so out of date and so vague on so many areas that it has caused thousands and thousands of pages of laws ... just look at the Tax Code for starters.

We need a re-write.  Way more clear on key issues we've been  fighting on for hundreds of years.  Put it to a vote and move on.

More than anything, I say break this beast up.  Trying to get the rural America and the South to Agree with urban based states is simply not working.  We don't need nearly as many laws as we have and, more than anything else, we need SEPARATION of CORPORATION and STATE.


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"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22467127 - 11/02/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Well if we followed the constitution there would be no Federal Reserve and NATO wouldn't be able to just drag us into war, so you can't exactly say that we follow it.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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