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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22491549 - 11/07/15 03:55 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Qman, astral pain, and starfire are at least of sound coherent mind... usually. Why bother with :carlinorgasm:'s?



I agree.  Zappa is reasonable as well, but haven't seen much from him lately.




If all the libs on here were fucking retards I probably wouldn't hang around very much either.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22491916 - 11/07/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Like I said, it is a beautiful notion from a philosophical stance. Locke was a great philosopher.

If Jews and Black people can so easily be robbed of their status as human beings, then those rights don't really mean much anyways, now do they?

Rights are given and taken by government. It is up to the people whether or not they maintain control of their government, and therefore their rights.




I agree with you in practice.  But I think starfire was referring to the language of the constitution which would have been heavily influenced by Locke and Christian theology.

I also think it's worth pointing out that Locke's philosophy has a lot of self-contradictions and that any document should be viewed within the context of the time and place it was written.  I believe the framers understood this and meant for the constitution to be a living, breathing thing, rather than holy scripture.

As you pointed out, does the second amendment give us the right to bare nuclear warheads?  Where does our 'Natural Right' to defend our self and our property end?

I imagine the language was intentionally left for future generations to interpret for exactly these reasons.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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InvisibleShroom Detective
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #22491984 - 11/07/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:





I have made it to page 4 of the thread, and this was pretty darn funny!  :lol:


--------------------
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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22492037 - 11/07/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Like I said, it is a beautiful notion from a philosophical stance. Locke was a great philosopher.

If Jews and Black people can so easily be robbed of their status as human beings, then those rights don't really mean much anyways, now do they?

Rights are given and taken by government. It is up to the people whether or not they maintain control of their government, and therefore their rights.




I agree with you in practice.  But I think starfire was referring to the language of the constitution which would have been heavily influenced by Locke and Christian theology.

I also think it's worth pointing out that Locke's philosophy has a lot of self-contradictions and that any document should be viewed within the context of the time and place it was written.  I believe the framers understood this and meant for the constitution to be a living, breathing thing, rather than holy scripture.

As you pointed out, does the second amendment give us the right to bare nuclear warheads?  Where does our 'Natural Right' to defend our self and our property end?

I imagine the language was intentionally left for future generations to interpret for exactly these reasons.




Good points. Given that the founding fathers weren't particularly religious, and I am not either, I wouldn't have really thought about Christian theology playing a role. When I think about it though, that was the culture of that era, and I'm sure religion oozed it's way into their language and worldview. Surely this has an impact on how we should interpret the Constitution, but I wouldn't want to get too carried away with that notion either.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleShroom Detective
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22492412 - 11/07/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Got it.  When a discussion is being lost, revert the discussion back to the O.P.  :smirk:




Topic appears to have still been in play at page 11; so, I have yet to determine when/how you ladies got off track (still reading it).


--------------------
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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Shroom Detective]
    #22492443 - 11/07/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Did you really just use ladies as some thinly veiled insult?  You realize it's 2015 right?


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22492533 - 11/07/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

But this ain't Canada


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: sweeper54]
    #22492675 - 11/07/15 07:47 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:
But this ain't Canada




It ain't fuckin Canada, sir! :toast:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleShroom Detective
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22492979 - 11/07/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Crazy Canucks would fail to exist, if not for our military...

Hi Sweeper.  Congrats to you for keeping your old GMO thread on topic (amazing it is still going, after all this time).

But this thread, it has over 20 pages of nothing to do with the topic...

It would seem that all were thrown off topic over a bikini within a signature line, around page 17 or so!  :lol:  Even more humorous, it was that poster whom contributed the most on-topic information (until he dropped out of the thread for a while), and the very same poster whom Wooof had confused with me... ! :rofl:

Anyway:



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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Shroom Detective]
    #22493036 - 11/07/15 09:06 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shroom Detective said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:





I have made it to page 4 of the thread, and this was pretty darn funny!  :lol:




well fuckin a its funny! 

and well pointed as all the liberals who claim to hate her will still vote for her!


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com





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InvisibleShroom Detective
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22493062 - 11/07/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

Shroom Detective said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:





I have made it to page 4 of the thread, and this was pretty darn funny!  :lol:




well fuckin a its funny! 

and well pointed as all the liberals who claim to hate her will still vote for her!




yes, low info voters...


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Offlineqman
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22493187 - 11/07/15 09:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Got it.  When a discussion is being lost, revert the discussion back to the O.P.  :smirk:




Meh, I don't even care. There are only a few of these conservative guys I can even carry a reasonable conversation with.

Qman, astral pain, and starfire are at least of sound coherent mind... usually. Why bother with :carlinorgasm:'s?




I don't think it's very constructive to label all members into a group (liberal or conservative). Yes, there are a few that definitely fit the mold, but that's just some of them.

This is a drug site, so the bias is definitely from a more free spirit or liberal perspective.

I'm pro-choice, pro-legal drugs, anti-war (since WW2), anti-global trade, pro-higher minimum wage, anti-Federal Reserve, an atheist, anti R and D, and I still get tossed into the "conservative" side of the equation, that's pretty funny. :lol:


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22493376 - 11/07/15 10:34 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Got it.  When a discussion is being lost, revert the discussion back to the O.P.  :smirk:




Meh, I don't even care. There are only a few of these conservative guys I can even carry a reasonable conversation with.

Qman, astral pain, and starfire are at least of sound coherent mind... usually. Why bother with :carlinorgasm:'s?




I don't think it's very constructive to label all members into a group (liberal or conservative). Yes, there are a few that definitely fit the mold, but that's just some of them.

This is a drug site, so the bias is definitely from a more free spirit or liberal perspective.

I'm pro-choice, pro-legal drugs, anti-war (since WW2), anti-global trade, pro-higher minimum wage, anti-Federal Reserve, an atheist, anti R and D, and I still get tossed into the "conservative" side of the equation, that's pretty funny. :lol:




I actually don't think you really fit in that mold at all. I thought that was how you identified.

Whether it's constructive or not, the number of times the word 'libtard' is cast about daily on this website really serves to cultivate that atmosphere.

I don't think being a drug site creates any sort of liberal bias. Libertarians are probably more pro-drug than liberals, and they are the wackiest, most extreme of conservatives.

I used to be of the mind that anyone could be persuaded to reason by a sound argument. That is not longer the case in my mind. You have to be capable of following an argument for any possibility of change.

Enlil has changed my perspective on corporate personhood, and the challenges of reversing citizens united. Boldaslove made me look at GMO's and the labeling issue completely different. I find myself arguing on behalf of GMO products nowadays. This batch of ignorant assholes that has only recently shown up really don't offer anything constructive, and I am just calling it like it is.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22493673 - 11/08/15 12:16 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I choose not to call myself anything: Democrat, Libertarian, Republican, etc. I don't agree with every aspect of their platforms. Calling yourself a "Democrat" or a "Republican" would mean that you agree with everything they stand for. Its so funny when you challenge a DEM/REP on an issue and disagree, they automatically assume you are a REP/DEM. Some people are capable of thinking for themselves and don't need a collective to follow around and tell them how to feel about things. Its human nature to want to fit in with a group, but this form of collective bias can lead to a pretty outlandish "GO TEAM" mentality.

And as far as the 2nd amendment is concerned, read the federalist papers or the debates leading up to the adoption of the constitution if you want to know what they meant.

Quote:


"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
-- Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
-- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950]




Now as far as Nuclear bombs are concerned, I'm not sure how many hundreds of millions of dollars one of those costs on the open market, but I'm pretty sure there isn't much demand in the private sector. But they do exist, and UN countries have a monopoly on them. There is a serious amount of political leverage that comes with owning just one. This is why there is such a hullabaloo over Iran owning one. Its not because they would go psychopathic and start a nuclear war whilst wiping themselves out in the process, its because it would level the diplomatic playing field.

This argument is relative when you speak of things like high capacity "assault" rifles. Why do we need to own these? Quite simple, various criminal organizations own them and I want a level playing field. If criminals have them, so too should peaceable citizens.

Its also interesting to note how the anti-gun proponents say "assault" rifle. Most use theirs for defense, but they aren't called "defense" rifles. These people are using psychological tactics to imply intent on an inanimate object, as if the only purpose of the firearm is assault. They also say semi-automatic over and over again so they can let the "automatic" part ring in your ear. People who are scared shitless of firearms likely know nothing about them and "semi-automatic" sounds scary. Many people believe that semi-automatic guns are machine guns. They almost never mention the fact that actual automatic firearms are highly regulated and require a special license and many rights to be relinquished in exchange for owning them.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


Edited by amp244 (11/08/15 12:33 AM)


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InvisibleShroom Detective
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22513355 - 11/12/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FBI expands probe of Clinton emails, launches independent classification review

The FBI has expanded its probe of Hillary Clinton's emails, with agents exploring whether multiple statements violate a federal false statements statute, according to intelligence sources familiar with the ongoing case.

Fox News is told agents are looking at U.S. Code 18, Section 1001, which pertains to "materially false" statements given either in writing, orally or through a third party. Violations also include pressuring a third party to conspire in a cover-up. Each felony violation is subject to five years in prison.

This phase represents an expansion of the FBI probe, which is also exploring potential violations of an Espionage Act provision relating to "gross negligence" in the handling of national defense information.

"The agents involved are under a lot of pressure and are busting a--," an intelligence source, who was not authorized to speak on the record, told Fox News.

The section of the criminal code being explored is known as "statements or entries generally," and can be applied when an individual makes misleading or false statements causing federal agents to expend additional resources and time. In this case, legal experts as well as a former FBI agent said, Section 1001 could apply if Clinton, her aides or attorney were not forthcoming with FBI agents about her emails, classification and whether only non-government records were destroyed.

Fox News judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano said the same section got Martha Stewart in trouble with the FBI. To be a violation, the statements do not need to be given under oath.

"This is a broad, brush statute that punishes individuals who are not direct and fulsome in their answers," former FBI agent Timothy Gill told Fox News. Gill is not connected to the email investigation, but spent 16 years as part of the bureau's national security branch, and worked the post 9/11 anthrax case where considerable time was spent resolving discrepancies in Bruce Ivins' statements and his unusual work activities at Fort Detrick, Md. 

"It is a cover-all. The problem for a defendant is when their statements cause the bureau to expend more time, energy, resources to de-conflict their statements with the evidence," he said.

Separately, two U.S. government officials told Fox News that the FBI is doing its own classification review of the Clinton emails, effectively cutting out what has become a grinding process at the State Department. Under Secretary for Management Patrick Kennedy has argued to both Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and Congress that the "Top Secret" emails on Clinton's server could have been pulled from unclassified sources including news reports.

"You want to go right to the source," Gill said. "Go to the originating, not the collateral, authority. Investigative protocol would demand that."

On Friday, Clapper spokesman Brian Hale confirmed that no change has been made to the two "Top Secrets" emails after a Politico report said the intelligence community was retreating from the finding. 

"ODNI has made no such determination and the review is ongoing," Hale said. Andrea G. Williams, spokeswoman for the intelligence community inspector general, said she had the same information. Kennedy is seeking an appeal, but no one can explain what statute or executive order would give Clapper that authority.

A U.S. government official who was not authorized to speak on the record said the FBI is identifying suspect emails, and then going directly to the agencies who originated them and therefore own the intelligence -- and who, under the regulations, have final say on the classification.

As Fox News previously reported, at least four classified Clinton emails had their markings changed to a category that shields the content from Congress and the public, in what State Department whistleblowers believed to be an effort to hide the true extent of classified information on the former secretary of state's server.

One State Department lawyer involved in the alleged re-categorization was Kate Duval. Duval once worked in the same law firm as Clinton's current and long-time lawyer David Kendall and at the IRS during the Lois Lerner email controversy. Duval left government service for private practice in mid-September.

Catherine Herridge is an award-winning Chief Intelligence correspondent for FOX News Channel (FNC) based in Washington, D.C. She covers intelligence, the Justice Department and the Department of Homeland Security. Herridge joined FNC in 1996 as a London-based correspondent.




http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/12/fbi-expands-probe-clinton-emails-launches-independent-classification-review/?vgnextrefresh=1&intcmp=hpbt1


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244] * 1
    #22513976 - 11/12/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
I choose not to call myself anything: Democrat, Libertarian, Republican, etc. I don't agree with every aspect of their platforms. Calling yourself a "Democrat" or a "Republican" would mean that you agree with everything they stand for. Its so funny when you challenge a DEM/REP on an issue and disagree, they automatically assume you are a REP/DEM. Some people are capable of thinking for themselves and don't need a collective to follow around and tell them how to feel about things. Its human nature to want to fit in with a group, but this form of collective bias can lead to a pretty outlandish "GO TEAM" mentality.




I don't agree with every aspect of one party either, thought I generally lean toward democratic values. I don't support opening up the floodgates at the boarder, or taking away most people's guns. I'm not anti-GMO food. I'm sure there are other examples. However, I don't think the party necessarily aligns on these things either. There is no checklist to be a democrat/republican. I don't make arguments based on some sort of partisan 'team' perspective either.


The quote from Samuel Adams struck me as quite interesting:

Quote:

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
-- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)




See, I'm not against people owning guns. I am, however, against people who have demonstrated a violent nature, or severe mental illness, owning firearms. Gun rights folks should have the same concerns, because crazy gun owners reflect poorly on all gun owners, whether or not that is a rational response.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlineqman
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22514048 - 11/12/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
I choose not to call myself anything: Democrat, Libertarian, Republican, etc. I don't agree with every aspect of their platforms. Calling yourself a "Democrat" or a "Republican" would mean that you agree with everything they stand for. Its so funny when you challenge a DEM/REP on an issue and disagree, they automatically assume you are a REP/DEM. Some people are capable of thinking for themselves and don't need a collective to follow around and tell them how to feel about things. Its human nature to want to fit in with a group, but this form of collective bias can lead to a pretty outlandish "GO TEAM" mentality.




I don't agree with every aspect of one party either, thought I generally lean toward democratic values. I don't support opening up the floodgates at the boarder, or taking away most people's guns. I'm not anti-GMO food. I'm sure there are other examples. However, I don't think the party necessarily aligns on these things either. There is no checklist to be a democrat/republican. I don't make arguments based on some sort of partisan 'team' perspective either.


The quote from Samuel Adams struck me as quite interesting:

Quote:

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
-- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)




See, I'm not against people owning guns. I am, however, against people who have demonstrated a violent nature, or severe mental illness, owning firearms. Gun rights folks should have the same concerns, because crazy gun owners reflect poorly on all gun owners, whether or not that is a rational response.




"crazy gun owners reflect poorly on all gun owners"

No they don't, what does a legal responsible gun owner have in common with a gang member who bought his illegal gun off the streets and then shoots up a bunch of people?  Nothing.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22514193 - 11/12/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
I choose not to call myself anything: Democrat, Libertarian, Republican, etc. I don't agree with every aspect of their platforms. Calling yourself a "Democrat" or a "Republican" would mean that you agree with everything they stand for. Its so funny when you challenge a DEM/REP on an issue and disagree, they automatically assume you are a REP/DEM. Some people are capable of thinking for themselves and don't need a collective to follow around and tell them how to feel about things. Its human nature to want to fit in with a group, but this form of collective bias can lead to a pretty outlandish "GO TEAM" mentality.




I don't agree with every aspect of one party either, thought I generally lean toward democratic values. I don't support opening up the floodgates at the boarder, or taking away most people's guns. I'm not anti-GMO food. I'm sure there are other examples. However, I don't think the party necessarily aligns on these things either. There is no checklist to be a democrat/republican. I don't make arguments based on some sort of partisan 'team' perspective either.


The quote from Samuel Adams struck me as quite interesting:


See, I'm not against people owning guns. I am, however, against people who have demonstrated a violent nature, or severe mental illness, owning firearms. Gun rights folks should have the same concerns, because crazy gun owners reflect poorly on all gun owners, whether or not that is a rational response.




"crazy gun owners reflect poorly on all gun owners"

No they don't, what does a legal responsible gun owner have in common with a gang member who bought his illegal gun off the streets and then shoots up a bunch of people?  Nothing.




You took that quote out of context. I said 'whether or not that is a rational response'. It may very well be an irrational response, but school shootings and the like have a negative impact on the social perception of gun ownership.

I wasn't referring to gang bangers. I was referring to people who come by their guns legally, and do horrible things with them. If someone has murdered a person with a gun in the past, it's not a far stretch to say they shouldn't have access to legal gun ownership in the future. If someone is severely mentally ill, they probably shouldn't own a gun.

This is why I posted the quote from Samuel Adams, because I feel it is pertinent:

Quote:

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
-- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)




--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 5 hours, 16 minutes
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22514306 - 11/12/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
I choose not to call myself anything: Democrat, Libertarian, Republican, etc. I don't agree with every aspect of their platforms. Calling yourself a "Democrat" or a "Republican" would mean that you agree with everything they stand for. Its so funny when you challenge a DEM/REP on an issue and disagree, they automatically assume you are a REP/DEM. Some people are capable of thinking for themselves and don't need a collective to follow around and tell them how to feel about things. Its human nature to want to fit in with a group, but this form of collective bias can lead to a pretty outlandish "GO TEAM" mentality.




I don't agree with every aspect of one party either, thought I generally lean toward democratic values. I don't support opening up the floodgates at the boarder, or taking away most people's guns. I'm not anti-GMO food. I'm sure there are other examples. However, I don't think the party necessarily aligns on these things either. There is no checklist to be a democrat/republican. I don't make arguments based on some sort of partisan 'team' perspective either.


The quote from Samuel Adams struck me as quite interesting:


See, I'm not against people owning guns. I am, however, against people who have demonstrated a violent nature, or severe mental illness, owning firearms. Gun rights folks should have the same concerns, because crazy gun owners reflect poorly on all gun owners, whether or not that is a rational response.




"crazy gun owners reflect poorly on all gun owners"

No they don't, what does a legal responsible gun owner have in common with a gang member who bought his illegal gun off the streets and then shoots up a bunch of people?  Nothing.




You took that quote out of context. I said 'whether or not that is a rational response'. It may very well be an irrational response, but school shootings and the like have a negative impact on the social perception of gun ownership.

I wasn't referring to gang bangers. I was referring to people who come by their guns legally, and do horrible things with them. If someone has murdered a person with a gun in the past, it's not a far stretch to say they shouldn't have access to legal gun ownership in the future. If someone is severely mentally ill, they probably shouldn't own a gun.

This is why I posted the quote from Samuel Adams, because I feel it is pertinent:

Quote:

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
-- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)







I was recently listening to several minority leaders discussing the escalating gun violence in Chicago, it was truly pathetic, they actually were directing blaming the guns for their culture of violence. 

We already know convicted felons can't legally own firearms, do you think they really care about that law?

If people think gangbangers which makes up the vast majority of gun violence gives lawful and responsible gun ownership a bad reputation, they're no better than the leaders of Chicago.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 3 hours, 5 minutes
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22514574 - 11/12/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I was recently listening to several minority leaders discussing the escalating gun violence in Chicago, it was truly pathetic, they actually were directing blaming the guns for their culture of violence. 

We already know convicted felons can't legally own firearms, do you think they really care about that law?

If people think gangbangers which makes up the vast majority of gun violence gives lawful and responsible gun ownership a bad reputation, they're no better than the leaders of Chicago.




Agreed. So, violent criminals and the severely mentally ill (paranoid schizophrenics for example) should not be allowed to own guns? That's all I want in the way of gun control. I'm not against 'assault weapons', semi-autos, etc. I think the laws on those things are sufficient at this point in time.

As Bernie has said, we need support for people's mental health. As you have said, it's not the guns that are the problem, it's the people using them. We need to make sure that people have access to mental healthcare.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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