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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22487977 - 11/06/15 07:49 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
BOTH liberals and conservatives piss on "constitutional values" when it suits their ideology, what else is new?




There's only one issue that Liberals have with some people's interpretation of the Constitution. Gun rights. The Constitution is somewhat ambiguous on this subject though. The 'Right to bear arms' could mean that you are allowed kitchen knives, all the way up to nuclear warheads. Liberals don't even want to take away guns, they want to restrict them from violent criminals and severely mentally impaired people.

Citizen's United is a bipartisan complaint.

What else is there?




Restriction of freedom of speech, restriction of freedom to hire who you want, quotas, affirmative action.

That's all liberal ideology that uses the "ends justifies the means" to justify their restriction of freedom.




Affirmative action pretty much encompasses the last 3 of those. Unless you're saying Liberals don't want you to be able to turn someone down for a job because they're black. That's part of the 14th Amendment.

I think both parties have a desire to restrict free speech.


--------------------
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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22488662 - 11/06/15 10:29 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
If it were to happen, then I suppose we would be in a pretty dire position. Hopefully by then, we will have discovered how to harness the ambient energy of the magnetic fields and have free energy. Then maybe we could just let robots do all of our work and focus on space exploration.

I think we are in agreeance in that its not happening anytime soon.




There is some evidence to suggest that AI may exist as early as 2045. Google is already devoting significant resources toward AI development.

Who knows what that means for society. Robot slaves? I don't know, but I feel that if we continue to let the wealthy separate themselves further and further from the rest of us, they may just do away with us when they don't need us anymore, and the technology (that only they have access to) exists to do so.



This kind of reminds me of that movie with matt damon where only rich people could get off the planet and everyone else was just stuck in a shit hole. Its a very feasible situation if you think about it.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22488806 - 11/06/15 11:17 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Astral Pain said:
Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Conservatives have no fucking respect for personal Liberty, OR the Constitution.



Prove it.



He can't, his new ploy is to accuse conservatives of what libs have been doing for years, trying to undermine the constitution...

It's actually an old liberal tactic, they're playbook is pretty old actually, but woofy is a noob and up and comer, thinks he has an original idea, lol



He's projecting.




Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Conservatives are against gay rights, they are the chief proponents of the war on drugs, they support theocratic law, and many of them believe taxation should be illegal. They don't want children born on American soil to be legal citizens, which they are under the constitution.

Rick Perry literally wants to abolish 2 amendments.

The Arizona law was unconstitutional. Some of the anti 'Sharia Law' law's that have been proposed by conservatives have been unconstitutional, because their wording bans Sharia organizations, thereby infringing on religious freedom.

They are also against abortion rights, which have been deemed a Constitutional right by the Supreme court. The Supreme court is the court that the Constitution gives the power to make that decision.

Also, they want to abolish anti-discrimination laws, outlined by the 14th Amendment.




Quote:

Shroom Detective said:
Anywho...



That is fucking hilarious!  Wooof just handed three people their ass, and Shroom Detective, realizing this, quickly tries to change the topic...
:bathtub40lol:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22488829 - 11/06/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
There's only one issue that Liberals have with some people's interpretation of the Constitution. Gun rights.



I disagree with you Wooof.  Conservatives shit on the prefatory clause of the 2nd Amendment all the time.
Quote:

The 2nd Amendment says:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.




--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22488842 - 11/06/15 11:32 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
There's only one issue that Liberals have with some people's interpretation of the Constitution. Gun rights.



I disagree with you Wooof.  Conservatives shit on the prefatory clause of the 2nd Amendment all the time.
Quote:

The 2nd Amendment says:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.







You'll have to elaborate further on that.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22488866 - 11/06/15 11:37 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Do you think conservatives believe in the right to bear arms because we need a "well regulated militia"?  Or do you think they believe in the right to bear arms, period?  Because I'm not aware of too many gun owners being part of any "well regulated" militia.  I'm certainly not in any well regulated militia, though I own a gun.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22488897 - 11/06/15 11:49 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Do you think conservatives believe in the right to bear arms because we need a "well regulated militia"?  Or do you think they believe in the right to bear arms, period?  Because I'm not aware of too many gun owners being part of any "well regulated" militia.  I'm certainly not in any well regulated militia, though I own a gun.




That is true. I think that clause, as is the case with much of the constitution, is quite ambiguous. I'm sure we could argue for hours about how to properly interpret it, and I'm sure it has been argued for years. I don't generally give a fuck one way or the other, so I don't really get involved in gun rights arguments.

I was shocked when it was such a huge issue during the democratic debate, and I only thought Bernie and Webb were reasonable on the issue, really.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/06/15 11:50 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22489002 - 11/07/15 12:50 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Ambiguous?  Yes.

Is a well regulated militia relevant?  Not to most gun rights advocates.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22489044 - 11/07/15 01:23 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Conservatives have no fucking respect for personal Liberty, OR the Constitution.



Prove it.




Conservatives are against gay rights, they are the chief proponents of the war on drugs, they support theocratic law, and many of them believe taxation should be illegal. They don't want children born on American soil to be legal citizens, which they are under the constitution.

Rick Perry literally wants to abolish 2 amendments.

The Arizona law was unconstitutional. Some of the anti 'Sharia Law' law's that have been proposed by conservatives have been unconstitutional, because their wording bans Sharia organizations, thereby infringing on religious freedom.

They are also against abortion rights, which have been deemed a Constitutional right by the Supreme court. The Supreme court is the court that the Constitution gives the power to make that decision.

Also, they want to abolish anti-discrimination laws, outlined by the 14th Amendment.




So 'All conservatives want those things?"

Or do some?

By the way, 'rights' are not given by the government. 

So can I say liberals want the Government to give people rights?

Do yo understand why rights are not given by the government?

I use to think you had something to say.  Now I think you are full of poop.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #22489055 - 11/07/15 01:34 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The 2nd Amendment says:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.




Right, and it does state 'A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state' as the logic behind the statement. If there isn't a 'well regulated militia', then the premise is void. However, given that the necessity of a well regulated means of defense is already an incontrovertible reality, and given the language in the rest of the clause, it does sound as though it was written to prevent legal authorities from confiscating armaments.

It doesn't specify what type of armaments they're referring to though. Knives could be considered 'arms', and so could nukes. I don't think the government would permit private citizens to own nuclear weapons.

I think that it was left ambiguous intentionally, and I don't think anyone can claim to know exactly what it means. The Constitution was meant to be malleable throughout the generations. It is reasonable to say that some level of gun restriction is within it's bounds. Especially considering that the spirit of the clause revolves around safety.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/07/15 01:40 AM)


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22489133 - 11/07/15 02:52 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

poor poopy  Your reading comprehension is bad.  Rights are not given

A right is an intrinsic property due to our nature as human beings. as such they aren't granted.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22489616 - 11/07/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
poor poopy  Your reading comprehension is bad.  Rights are not given

A right is an intrinsic property due to our nature as human beings. as such they aren't granted.




A beautiful notion. Also a silly one. As the Constitution states 'the right to bear arms shall not be infringed'. If it is just some innate thing then it couldn't possibly be infringed. I think you're the one with poor comprehension. How about monarchistic governments? Did those people not have innate rights as human beings? What about women in Saudi Arabia?

Rights can be given and taken away by the society you live in.

I'm wondering where the slaves went wrong in obtaining these "natural rights".

I was responding to Falcon, by the way.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/07/15 08:42 AM)


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22489645 - 11/07/15 08:48 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
poor poopy  Your reading comprehension is bad.  Rights are not given

A right is an intrinsic property due to our nature as human beings. as such they aren't granted.




A beautiful notion. Also a silly one. As the Constitution states 'the right to bear arms shall not be infringed'. If it is just some innate thing then it couldn't possibly be infringed. I think you're the one with poor comprehension. How about monarchistic governments? Did those people not have innate rights as human beings? What about women in Saudi Arabia?

Rights can be given and taken away by the society you live in.

I'm wondering where the slaves went wrong in obtaining these "natural rights".

I was responding to Falcon, by the way.




You need to read some of the writings from the founders oncerning what rights are.  They are intrinsic rights not rights given by the government.  Why?  Because a right that is given by the government can be taken away by the government.  Now don't confuse this with losing your rights due to committing a crime.

As far as black in the 1700's yep, it was bad.  That is a sad thing.  But it is not germane to the discussion of inatrinsic or extrinsic rights.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22490821 - 11/07/15 01:25 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
  ...Shroom Detective, realizing this, quickly tries to change the topic...




Review thread title: 

"Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI"

Review post:

Quote:

Shroom Detective said:
Anywho...The "Sensitive Compartmented Information Nondisclosure Agreement" signed by none other than Hillary Clinton, whom is surely owned by foreign entities, via blackmail, at this point, being that they were in her servers from the very beginning:

https://cei.org/sites/default/files/CEI%20FOIA%20-%20Hillary%20Clinton%20Email%20Security%20NDA%20-%2011062015_0.pdf





Review OP:

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Many on the left are saying 'why did she suddenly turn them over?'

That is a legitimate question, unless you have heard one of the other stories circulating that the FBI raided her per-dawn and took the data by force.  I don't know what happened but I believe you can stick a fork in Hillary...she's done.

Wow, sure is an 'unbeatable candidate' isn't she?  :smirk:




Thread is as off topic as a bunch of women at a useless tupperware party...


--------------------
"I, Falcon91Wolvrn03, am a BIG FAT LIAR; so much so, that my pants are on fire."


Edited by Shroom Detective (11/07/15 01:34 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Shroom Detective]
    #22491277 - 11/07/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Got it.  When a discussion is being lost, revert the discussion back to the O.P.  :smirk:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22491394 - 11/07/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Got it.  When a discussion is being lost, revert the discussion back to the O.P.  :smirk:




Meh, I don't even care. There are only a few of these conservative guys I can even carry a reasonable conversation with.

Qman, astral pain, and starfire are at least of sound coherent mind... usually. Why bother with :carlinorgasm:'s?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: starfire_xes]
    #22491413 - 11/07/15 03:32 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
poor poopy  Your reading comprehension is bad.  Rights are not given

A right is an intrinsic property due to our nature as human beings. as such they aren't granted.




A beautiful notion. Also a silly one. As the Constitution states 'the right to bear arms shall not be infringed'. If it is just some innate thing then it couldn't possibly be infringed. I think you're the one with poor comprehension. How about monarchistic governments? Did those people not have innate rights as human beings? What about women in Saudi Arabia?

Rights can be given and taken away by the society you live in.

I'm wondering where the slaves went wrong in obtaining these "natural rights".

I was responding to Falcon, by the way.




You need to read some of the writings from the founders oncerning what rights are.  They are intrinsic rights not rights given by the government.  Why?  Because a right that is given by the government can be taken away by the government.  Now don't confuse this with losing your rights due to committing a crime.

As far as black in the 1700's yep, it was bad.  That is a sad thing.  But it is not germane to the discussion of inatrinsic or extrinsic rights.




Rights can be taken away from the government. Look at the Jews in Germany. Their basic human rights were taken away by their governments. The constitution gives us our rights, because it is a governing article. If it wasn't the source of those rights, there would be no need to write about them.

I sort of understand what you're saying from a philosophical stance, and that is why I said 'it is a beautiful notion', but not really the case. If it were the case then everyone everywhere would have those innate rights, as human beings.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22491482 - 11/07/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Qman, astral pain, and starfire are at least of sound coherent mind... usually. Why bother with :carlinorgasm:'s?



I agree.  Zappa is reasonable as well, but haven't seen much from him lately.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22491491 - 11/07/15 03:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Locke believed in Natural Rights.  The founders were heavily influenced by him.  I hear what you're saying too bbw but I think Starfire is on point here as far as the founders' views on 'rights'.

Locke also beleived that government's primary purpose was to protect natural rights from unprincipled forces.  One could argue that slavery, nazi Germany, etc.  are places where government had failed in its primary purpose (according to Locke).  On the other hand one could argue that blacks and Jews aren't really people and don't have the same natural rights (I think some variant of this argument was used in both instances).


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22491537 - 11/07/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Like I said, it is a beautiful notion from a philosophical stance. Locke was a great philosopher.

If Jews and Black people can so easily be robbed of their status as human beings, then those rights don't really mean much anyways, now do they?

Rights are given and taken by government. It is up to the people whether or not they maintain control of their government, and therefore their rights.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/07/15 03:52 PM)


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