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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22455397 - 10/30/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

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Exactly.  Those are the rights given to it by Congress, and Congress DOES have the right to change the rules governing the transfer of stock if they wish.



They would have to pass a law. It would take an act of congress. It is not within their authority as it currently stands.
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amp244 said:
You can quote where the Federal Reserve made a statement which is intentionally designed to mislead gullible people like yourself into believing that the bank is "not "Owned" by anyone" all you want. On the same page they explained everything I just said about stock ownership and voting rights.



I guess you missed the part where I told you "whether they state that they are not owned by anyone, or they are, it really  doesn't even matter... Congress makes the rules... Is that really ownership???"  I'M the one who told you the wording doesn't matter, and you're calling me gullible for believing the wording?



Congress makes what rules? Yea, they passed a law, delegating all of their powers to someone else. That's it, they haven't made any "rules" since then. Would you care to elaborate on these "rules" you say congress is making?

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only Congress gets to make/change the rules, which for all practical purposes makes them the 'owners'



I guess they just made this law for no fucking reason at all then huh? You are really making yourself look silly now. I'll pull a falcon and ask you to "please provide support for this claim".  :laugh2:



You want me to support my claim that only Congress gets to make/change the rules for the Federal Reserve?  The Federal Reserve Act was an act of Congress, and Congress has the power to change its own laws.  See the US Constitution, Article I, Section 8, Clause 18: 
Quote:

The Congress shall have Power To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.






You said that ONLY congress may set rules. That ONLY is a pretty big qualifier there. You ignore that congress delegated these powers to the Federal Reserve Board in the Act. I think it is taken for granted that congress can pass laws, you don't have to tell me that. I agree, congress would have to pass a law in order to change any rules regarding the Fed. As it stands congress has no authority to effect any change whatsoever. Good point about congress's law making ability though, thanks for making that clear.


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amp244 said:
all I can say is that your comprehension of the law is simply wrong. Fed stock owners, (except for individuals, copartnerships, and corporations) have voting rights. In other words, the national bank associations within the federal reserve districts have exclusive voting rights. The government has none. Its all plainly written in the law. Its ok man, I understand the language is a bit obfuscating, so I wont ridicule you too much for allowing something that is designed to be black and white, to mislead you so completely.

I'm embarrassed for you at this point. You really don't understand what you read, nor are you capable of reading between the lines when it comes to assessing the environment this bill creates. Private banks have voting power based on their membership. This voting power is in regards to setting board members and presidents that in turn set economic policy that affects the quality of life of billions of people world wide. All of this power WAS delegated to congress and IS NOW carried out by representatives of private entities. I've sourced all the information which I used to arrive at that conclusion. 1.) The U.S. Constitution 2.) The Federal Reserve Act
Your abysmal reading comprehension skills do not render any of these points moot.



Now you're straw-manning BIG time.  I never said members don't have voting rights, and I never said they don't have any other responsibilities.  What I've been telling you is that the so called "owners" can't change any of the rules that Congress laid out for them, and that demonstrates they aren't effectively owners.



Oh well then please tell me what these voting rights allow them to do? Its my contention that they vote to appoint board members and presidents who set economic policy. If you are telling me that the members can't change the law then I agree with you, shareholders cannot change the law congress enacted because, well, they aren't congress. I appreciate you making this clear for me falcon, you're doing a really good job.

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amp244 said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's all well and good, except you forgot to quote the part that makes it illegal.

I may be giving you too much credit, but I assume you know that the Constitution gave the Supreme Court the power to judge whether federal, state, and local governments are acting within the law.  If it were illegal, the Supreme Court would have struck it down.



The fact that the supreme court has not struck it down does not make it constitutional. The fact that it was created from powers that the Federal Government never had in the first place is what makes it Unconstitutional. If a power is not explicitly granted to the Federal Government, it does not have that power. So I suppose you would have to read the entire constitution to determine whether or not congress has that power, which is exactly what I sourced. Once again I apologize if these concepts are going over your head, but your needing me to hold your hand through the whole process here, once again, doesn't negate any of the points raised.



Again, this power is provided by Article I, Section 8, Clause 18 of the US Constitution as cited above.  Congress considered a central bank a reasonable use of the constitution's 'necessary and proper' clause.  Although the constitution forbids States from making anything but gold or silver a legal tender, it places no such restriction on Congress.




That power allows congress to create laws to help IT carry out ITS powers. Not to delegate ITS powers to other entities, or to give itself powers that it was never explicitly given in the first place. The founding fathers wrote the constitution to limit the amount of power available to the Federal Government, not give it free reign to do whatever the fuck it wants.

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amp244 said:
you sir, didn't address my point about timely reporting and the need for information while it is still relevant. Its an accounting concept that has heavy weight on GAAP (not gov't standards but they are designed to provide for an adequately informed public). These questions were asked 8 months after the fact and she didn't know why, how, or even THAT the Fed expanded its balance sheet by over a $1 trillion.



That's not true based on the videos you linked to.  She didn't know how much money the Federal Reserve lost, because it didn't lose any money.



So where did I say that they lost money? Why make that point? And you have again failed to address my point about timely reporting. Information must be available while it is still relevant in order for it to be of any use.

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amp244 said:
You keep getting caught up in little semantics and fail to see the larger picture here. Just because the Fed is a non-profit entity doesn't mean it is not used as a vehicle for securing the profits of for-profit entities.



Another straw man.  I never said anything about whether or not it helped for-profit entities.



You repeatedly made the point that it was not a for-profit entity. What good is making that point unless you are trying to paint it as an innocuous institution that has no interest in the for-profit institutions that own it.

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amp244 said:
Just because the stock ownership differs from publically traded stock in regards to its transfer privileges doesn't mean that the people who hold it are not owners.



No it doesn't.  But the fact that the members don't get to keep all the money, nor make any of the rules means they are not owners.



The members vote to appoint representatives (almost always people from the private sector) that carry out economic policy. These representatives answer to and act for the private member banks, who have the power to fire them. This is why I consider them owners. Because not only do they LITERALLY OWN THE BANK, but they have MAJOR INFLUENCE over the ACTIONS THAT THE BANK TAKES. Congress has no authority to influence anything when it comes to setting economic policy. And please don't reiterate your useless point that congress wrote the law to begin with. You're not telling me anything I don't already know.

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amp244 said:
And just because the Supreme court hasn't been challenged on the Fed, doesn't mean that its constitutional. Im sorry you are having so much trouble with all of this man.



I provided the very clause that gives the Congress this power.



You provided the clause that enables congress to pass laws allowing IT to carry out ITS powers. That law doesn't allow congress to pass laws allowing OTHERS to carry out ITS powers, nor does it allow congress to give itself powers it was not explicitly given in the first place.

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amp244 said:
This is yet another example of you choosing to argue with someone despite the fact that you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. You are arguing to me that the government controls the decision making at the Fed, unbelievable.



No, I'm arguing about ownership, and I'm arguing about who makes the rules that the Federal Reserve has to follow.



Nobody is saying that congress didn't write the law. You are just unbelievable. Congress made rules, one time, 102 years ago, that allow the Fed to enact economic policy. I am here concerned with who has influence over the ECONOMIC POLICY, not the rules governing the establishment of the Federal Reserve system. I thought that was quite clear. Once more, the Government has ABSOLUTELY NO SAY in what representatives of the private owners of the bank do. Congress has ABSOLUTELY NO SAY when it comes to setting interest rates and carrying out economic policy at the FED.

No more straw-men, please.


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amp244 said:
And yea the FED gives its profits back to the Treasury. Remember that interest rates are near zero and that the FED doesn't exist to generate profits. It is used as a mechanism for securing the profits of private banks, not itself.



I guess you missed my last post explaining how it prevented a great depression.  :shrug:






It didn't prevent anything, it just pushed it further down the road. I suppose that suffices to people who can't see anything passed whats right in front of their face. That's a commonality between bad economists, they ignore the long term effects and focus solely on the short term.

Falcon, I would like you to:

Show me any instance in which congress set any rule dealing with any facet of the Federal Reserve without passing a law. Since you have given them the status of ownership, I feel like you should be able to produce one instance in which this has happened.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22455462 - 10/30/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

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KauaiOrca said:
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qman said:

I know about the whole series of events that took place, you forget one important detail, the Fed bought $2.5 to $3 trillion of MBS's off the banks, that's giving them .100 cents on the dollar for distressed assets, that's crony capitalism.




I think we'll be debating for decades whether or not the QE programs actually helped or hurt the economy, but there is no doubt whatsoever that at the height of the banking crisis, just before and after TARP was passed, the FED played a crucial role in providing liquidity for a lot domestic and foreign banks that would probably have been insolvent without it. 

I've heard that the number may be as high as 7 Trillion at one point to keep these giant institutions from defaulting ... luckily it "worked out."  The treasury and  MBS buying program, however, is a whole different issue that had a lot less to do with saving the economy from imminent collapse and more to do with a strategy to prevent more homeowner defaults.




I appreciate Orca's qualifiers here. Yes the actions provided liquidity. Yes they prevented the collapse of a major portion of the economies capital markets. Whether or not this will provide any benefit in the long run, is another story. Kudos to you Orca for posing this argument with open eyes and not just being all "GO TEAM" like Falcon.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22456861 - 10/31/15 08:42 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

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amp244 said:

I appreciate Orca's qualifiers here. Yes the actions provided liquidity. Yes they prevented the collapse of a major portion of the economies capital markets. Whether or not this will provide any benefit in the long run, is another story. Kudos to you Orca for posing this argument with open eyes and not just being all "GO TEAM" like Falcon.




I think the BIS is where the real action is now and the FED is a compartmentalized group of financial technocrats that have no direct communication at all with a global banking cabal if one even exists, which I tend to doubt.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22456940 - 10/31/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

I tend to think that they have business meetings from time to time. And may even enjoy a round of golf, or some tea here and there. You have to remember that the top .1% is worth roughly the same as the bottom 90%. Although the institutions are vastly diverse, the money controlling them is likely not as diverse. I have no reason to believe that the BIS and FED are not corroborating in some fashion.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22456967 - 10/31/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
I tend to think that they have business meetings from time to time. And may even enjoy a round of golf, or some tea here and there. You have to remember that the top .1% is worth roughly the same as the bottom 90%. Although the institutions are vastly diverse, the money controlling them is likely not as diverse. I have no reason to believe that the BIS and FED are not corroborating in some fashion.




WHO at the FED pulls the strings?  If there is indeed a power structure that operates above and controls the FOMC, who are the 1-5 people that are at the top?  I've asked this question of people hundreds of times and NEVER gotten an answer.  Maybe you have that answer. 

For this kind of secretive power to exist, it MUST have a person or 2 or 3 at the apex that pull the strings otherwise it won't work.  When Yellen gets "the call" about what to do, who is making that call or directing the person that does make that call?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 5 hours, 4 minutes
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22457061 - 10/31/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

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KauaiOrca said:
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amp244 said:
I tend to think that they have business meetings from time to time. And may even enjoy a round of golf, or some tea here and there. You have to remember that the top .1% is worth roughly the same as the bottom 90%. Although the institutions are vastly diverse, the money controlling them is likely not as diverse. I have no reason to believe that the BIS and FED are not corroborating in some fashion.




WHO at the FED pulls the strings?  If there is indeed a power structure that operates above and controls the FOMC, who are the 1-5 people that are at the top?  I've asked this question of people hundreds of times and NEVER gotten an answer.  Maybe you have that answer. 

For this kind of secretive power to exist, it MUST have a person or 2 or 3 at the apex that pull the strings otherwise it won't work.  When Yellen gets "the call" about what to do, who is making that call or directing the person that does make that call?




Who really knows, who makes the calls for a US airstrike? It's not Obama. :lol:


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22457084 - 10/31/15 10:14 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

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qman said:
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KauaiOrca said:
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amp244 said:
I tend to think that they have business meetings from time to time. And may even enjoy a round of golf, or some tea here and there. You have to remember that the top .1% is worth roughly the same as the bottom 90%. Although the institutions are vastly diverse, the money controlling them is likely not as diverse. I have no reason to believe that the BIS and FED are not corroborating in some fashion.




WHO at the FED pulls the strings?  If there is indeed a power structure that operates above and controls the FOMC, who are the 1-5 people that are at the top?  I've asked this question of people hundreds of times and NEVER gotten an answer.  Maybe you have that answer. 

For this kind of secretive power to exist, it MUST have a person or 2 or 3 at the apex that pull the strings otherwise it won't work.  When Yellen gets "the call" about what to do, who is making that call or directing the person that does make that call?




Who really knows, who makes the calls for a US airstrike? It's not Obama. :lol:




If these super duper uber financial cabal kingpins truly exist, it should be fairly easy to identify them.  Shareholder and board member records are all public information.  Unless there's some kind of alien/satanic control system that operates inter-dimensionally, then the humans that are controlling the game should be easy to find.  I think this Swiss University project did the best and most exhaustive SCIENTIFIC research on this topic I've ever seen ...

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1107/1107.5728v2.pdf

The conclusions I draw from this is that there is no "control" per se, but lots of different de-centralized influencers that compete with one another. 


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (10/31/15 10:19 AM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22459396 - 10/31/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

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qman said:
I know about the whole series of events that took place, you forget one important detail, the Fed bought $2.5 to $3 trillion of MBS's off the banks, that's giving them .100 cents on the dollar for distressed assets, that's crony capitalism.



No, I didn't forget it.  In fact, I we already discussed it earlier in this thread here:
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said:
those distressed assets should have hit the open market at a major discount, it would have worked out just fine. That doesn't produce a economic depression.



I disagree with you, because there were so many derivatives tied to those assets.



"so many derivatives tied to those assets"

And the justifying of bad behavior continues, my answer is so what?



The "so what" is that the derivatives tied to those securities would have be paid up, which would have amounted to $trillions, causing a global meltdown.  The Fed's objective was to prevent that from happening.
Forget About Housing, The The Real Cause Of The Crisis Was OTC Derivatives
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The suspension of the US Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) mark-to-market rule in 2009 preserved the value of bank balance sheets, but what was of far greater importance was that it prevented triggering the conditions of thousands of OTC derivatives contracts, such as credit default swaps (CDS), that would have wiped out virtually all of the largest banking institutions in the world.



I probably hate the banks more than you do, but you can't allow all the major banks to fail without triggering a Great Depression.  I'm all for the Government disallowing 'too big to fail'.  :shrug:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/31/15 10:27 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22459655 - 10/31/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

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amp244 said:
I think it is taken for granted that congress can pass laws, you don't have to tell me that. I agree, congress would have to pass a law in order to change any rules regarding the Fed.

Its my contention that they vote to appoint board members and presidents who set economic policy. If you are telling me that the members can't change the law then I agree with you, shareholders cannot change the law congress enacted because, well, they aren't congress. I appreciate you making this clear for me falcon.  Nobody is saying that congress didn't write the law.



So we're in agreement then.  The Fed doesn't have authority to keep whatever profit it makes, or to change its charter as given by Congress.  The Board of Directors acts as 'managers' and not 'owners' of the Fed - a HUGE difference.  But since we seem to agree on both their responsibilities and limitations, it's just semantics now; we simply have very different interpretations of what ownership actually means.

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amp244 said:
So where did I say that they lost money? Why make that point? And you have again failed to address my point about timely reporting. Information must be available while it is still relevant in order for it to be of any use.



In the video you posted, Grayson asked if they knew how much money they were losing.  They were confused by the question because they weren't losing money, and said they'd have to find out.  I don't think an expectation for an instantaneous response is reasonable in all cases.  If Congress asks the Fed a question, I agree that they need to respond in a reasonable amount of time with an answer.  And that's why I asked how long it took to answer the question - to see if you thought it was reasonable or not.

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amp244 said:
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Falcon91Wolvnr03 said:
I never said anything about whether or not it helped for-profit entities.



You repeatedly made the point that it was not a for-profit entity. What good is making that point unless you are trying to paint it as an innocuous institution that has no interest in the for-profit institutions that own it.



I agreed the Fed helps for profit entities; I didn't say that was limited to member banks.

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amp244 said:
Congress has ABSOLUTELY NO SAY when it comes to setting interest rates and carrying out economic policy at the FED.



Except the Fed is required to perform the mission Congress assigned.  Keeping interest rates and the economy stable.  And that's what they've been doing as outlined above.

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amp244 said:
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Falcon91Wolvnr03 said:
I guess you missed my last post explaining how it prevented a great depression.  :shrug:



It didn't prevent anything, it just pushed it further down the road.



Now here's where YOU display an ignorance of economics.  It as FAR easier for a fair economy to continue improving than one that is in a depression.  We avoided a great depression, and as a result we're less likely have one in the future than we are to get out of one if we were there today.  Just look at how long the first great depression lasted, and what it finally took to get us out (a massive WWII stimulus funded by the Fed).

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amp244 said:
Falcon, I would like you to:

Show me any instance in which congress set any rule dealing with any facet of the Federal Reserve without passing a law. Since you have given them the status of ownership, I feel like you should be able to produce one instance in which this has happened.



Gladly.  Congress passed the "Federal Reserve Reform Act of 1977" with a goal of moderate, stable interest rates.  Since then, the Fed has kept rates a lot more stable than they used to be:


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22459846 - 10/31/15 11:06 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
I tend to think that they have business meetings from time to time. And may even enjoy a round of golf, or some tea here and there. You have to remember that the top .1% is worth roughly the same as the bottom 90%. Although the institutions are vastly diverse, the money controlling them is likely not as diverse. I have no reason to believe that the BIS and FED are not corroborating in some fashion.




WHO at the FED pulls the strings?  If there is indeed a power structure that operates above and controls the FOMC, who are the 1-5 people that are at the top?  I've asked this question of people hundreds of times and NEVER gotten an answer.  Maybe you have that answer. 

For this kind of secretive power to exist, it MUST have a person or 2 or 3 at the apex that pull the strings otherwise it won't work.  When Yellen gets "the call" about what to do, who is making that call or directing the person that does make that call?




Yellen isn't the dictator of the fed. There are meetings where debates and votes take place. The people in these meetings are representatives of the private member banks, these are the people that they aim to please. On the lower levels, it is simply culture. When it comes to those at the TOP with the true control, I don't think you need to look passed the aforementioned Rothschilds, Warburgs, Rockafellers, etc. These families had extreme control over the banking industry of yesteryear, nobody questions that. And as I said before, there is no where on the timeline where they suddenly relinquished this power. I don't subscribe to your claim that power is lost with each successive generation. These families have just moved further into the shadows of corporate entities. If Donald Trump can set up LLC's and declare bankruptcy in their name, the Rothschilds can do the same and exercise power by proxy.  There only need be one genius, which was daddy Rothschild. The rest just need to learn to work the system that was laid before them. They just follow the plan. Money = Power. Power = Influence. "Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws" - Amschel Rothschild

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller, Memoirs, pg. 405, 2002 

That's straight from the horses mouth, and while I do detect a loose mocking of those who describe it as a "secret cabal", he freely admits to conspiring to bring about an international order, pretty arrogantly I might add.

I don't ignore the importance of Builderberg meetings. I also don't rule out international organizations like the Trilateral Commission in coordinating actions, nor do I rule out the influence of secret societies like the Free Masons when dealing with collusion. Harry Truman once wrote “The greatest honor that has ever come to me, and that can ever come to me in my life, is to be Grand Master of Masons in Missouri”. These people hold their status in these societies above anything else in life. Truman was more proud of becoming a Masonic Grand Master than he was of becoming the fucking president of the united states (often regarded as the most powerful position on earth). Its hard for me to believe that these societies, meetings, and organizations are just for fun and completely innocuous.


A few more quotes from people much more close to the matter than I:

"We shall have world government, whether or not we like it. The question is only whether world government will be achieved by consent or by conquest." James Warburg, 1950

"The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, so what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. They pull the strings and we dance." - John Swinton, New York Times Chief of Staff

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government, all under their control. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." - Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976

"The one aim of these financiers is world control by the creation of inextinguishable debts." - Henry Ford

"Every effort has been made by the Federal Reserve Board to conceal its powers, but the truth is that the Federal Reserve System has usurped the government. It controls everything in congress and it controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks governments at will." - Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Committee on Banking and Currency

"A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men...We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men." - Woodrow Wilson's The New Freedom: A Call for the Emancipation of the Generous Energies of a People (New York and Garden City: Doubleday, Page & Company, 1913


Senate Doc. 23, 76th Congress, 1st Session.

"This Federal Reserve Act establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President Wilson signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized. The worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." - Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. , 1913

"We have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. They are not government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government, and it has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it." - Senator Louis T. McFadden, Chairman US Banking & Currency Commission

"I am afraid that ordinary citizens will not like to be told that the banks can, and do, create and destroy money; and they who control the credit of the nation direct the policy of governments and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people." - R. McKenna, Chairman, Midland Bank London

"The Federal Reserve is answerable to no one." - Ronald Reagan

"For a long time I felt that FDR had developed many thoughts and ideas that were his own to benefit this country, the United States. But he didn't. Most of his thoughts were carefully manufactured for him in advance by the Council on Foreign Relations One World Money Group. The United Nations is but a long range, international banking apparatus clearly set up for financial and economic profit by a small group of powerful One-World revolutionaries, hungry for profit and power. The One-World government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank." - Curtis Dall, Son-in-Law of F.D.R., 1936

"The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the International bankers." - Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)

"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government, which, like a giant octopus, sprawls its slimy length over city, state, and nation. Like the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen. At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties." - John F. Hylan, New York City Mayor, 1922.

"There is no more direct way to capture control of a nation than through its credit and money system." - Phillip A. Benson, President of American Bankers' Association, 1939

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin. Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with the flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. But, if you want to continue to be the slave of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the bankers continue to create money and control credit." - Sir Josiah Stamp, President, Bank of England (2nd richest man in England)

"The Trilateral Commission is international and is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power: Political, Monetary, Intellectual, and Ecclesiastical." - Barry Goldwater , U.S. Senator

"We are on the verge of a Global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." - David Rockefeller to the United Nations Business Council on September 23, 1994

"The eyes of our citizens are not sufficiently open to the true cause of our distress. They ascribe them to everything but their true cause, the banking system; a system which if it could do good in any form is yet so certain of leading to abuse as to be utterly incompatible with the public safety and prosperity. The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution." - Thomas Jefferson

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - James Madison

"All the perplexities, confusions, and distresses in America arise, not from defects in the Constitution or confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, as much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation." - John Quincy Adams

"The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity." - Abraham Lincoln



Once again, I don't think anything has changed in regards to who wields the power and who our government answers to. Your asking me to identify a handful of specific individuals who wield supreme power is quite the tall order. Those who have this power, are so far removed from the public's eye and buried within a gallimaufry of corporate identities, that an answer to this question from a person of my standing would be mere speculation. But if I may, I speculate that those wielding the power 60 years ago, are still wielding the power today.


Edited by amp244 (11/01/15 01:36 PM)


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22459868 - 10/31/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

And those quotes above suffice to end these 'Who owns the Fed' and 'Does the Constitution permit congress to create a Central Bank' debates I have been having with Falcon. You are not just arguing with me, you are arguing with Presidents, Congressmen, Bankers, Media leaders, and the people who wrote the Constitution.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22459987 - 10/31/15 11:45 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvnr03 said:
I guess you missed my last post explaining how it prevented a great depression.  :shrug:



It didn't prevent anything, it just pushed it further down the road.



Now here's where YOU display an ignorance of economics.  It as FAR easier for a fair economy to continue improving than one that is in a depression.  We avoided a great depression, and as a result we're less likely have one in the future than we are to get out of one if we were there today.  Just look at how long the first great depression lasted, and what it finally took to get us out (a massive WWII stimulus funded by the Fed).




A healthy economy will experience recessions and downturns. These are called correction periods. When the economy gets pumped up with cash in an effort to bring it out of depression or to force growth, you create bubbles which will eventually pop at a much more devastating magnitude than what was to have happened had this pseudo-demand not been brought into existence. As I said, the next collapse will be much worse, the assets are way overinflated. The can has been kicked further down the road. Runaway debt is a problem, regardless of whether you choose to turn a blind eye to the future or not.

And in regards to the post WWII boom, you fail to take into account the liquidation of the debt. What you attribute to a massive stimulus, I attribute to a balanced budget. There are two sides to a balance sheet buddy. But like the quintessential bad economist, you keep your eye fixated on a single aspect of the equation.

Quote:

Quote:

amp244 said:
Falcon, I would like you to:

Show me any instance in which congress set any rule dealing with any facet of the Federal Reserve without passing a law. Since you have given them the status of ownership, I feel like you should be able to produce one instance in which this has happened.



Gladly.  Congress passed the "Federal Reserve Reform Act of 1977" with a goal of moderate, stable interest rates.  Since then, the Fed has kept rates a lot more stable than they used to be:





Maybe you should have read my question more thoroughly Falcon. Your response serves once again to solidify my sentiment that your reading comprehension skills are reprehensible.

I asked you to provide an instance where Congress effected a change without passing a law. You cited a law that congress passed. Do you see why arguing with you is such a mindfuck? I suppose the request still stands.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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Offlineeehoo
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22460095 - 11/01/15 12:31 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvnr03 said:
I guess you missed my last post explaining how it prevented a great depression.  :shrug:



It didn't prevent anything, it just pushed it further down the road.



Now here's where YOU display an ignorance of economics.  It as FAR easier for a fair economy to continue improving than one that is in a depression.  We avoided a great depression, and as a result we're less likely have one in the future than we are to get out of one if we were there today.  Just look at how long the first great depression lasted, and what it finally took to get us out (a massive WWII stimulus funded by the Fed).




A healthy economy will experience recessions and downturns. These are called correction periods. When the economy gets pumped up with cash in an effort to bring it out of depression or to force growth, you create bubbles which will eventually pop at a much more devastating magnitude than what was to have happened had this pseudo-demand not been brought into existence. As I said, the next collapse will be much worse, the assets are way overinflated. The can has been kicked further down the road. Runaway debt is a problem, regardless of whether you choose to turn a blind eye to the future or not.

And in regards to the post WWII boom, you fail to take into account the liquidation of the debt. What you attribute to a massive stimulus, I attribute to a balanced budget. There are two sides to a balance sheet buddy. But like the quintessential bad economist, you keep your eye fixated on a single aspect of the equation.

Quote:

Quote:

amp244 said:
Falcon, I would like you to:

Show me any instance in which congress set any rule dealing with any facet of the Federal Reserve without passing a law. Since you have given them the status of ownership, I feel like you should be able to produce one instance in which this has happened.



Gladly.  Congress passed the "Federal Reserve Reform Act of 1977" with a goal of moderate, stable interest rates.  Since then, the Fed has kept rates a lot more stable than they used to be:





Maybe you should have read my question more thoroughly Falcon. Your response serves once again to solidify my sentiment that your reading comprehension skills are reprehensible.

I asked you to provide an instance where Congress effected a change without passing a law. You cited a law that congress passed. Do you see why arguing with you is such a mindfuck? I suppose the request still stands.




Let the economy collapse, and then rebuild. Nobody will listen until they are short on water and other resources


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: eehoo]
    #22460168 - 11/01/15 01:04 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

^^^Exactly^^^^

Circumvent a correction period here, circumvent one there. Continue printing money, continue racking up debt. Continue circumventing correction periods. Continue confiscation of savings. Continue diminishing purchasing power. Continue expanding welfare. Continue until we're all penniless with our hands out begging mother Russia for our daily bread.

Its ironic that those decrying income inequality often times support policies that catalyze it.

This country needs to endure great pain in order to turn this ship in the right direction. And if the correction is allowed to happen and things come crashing down from their perch that has been bolstered by monumental deficit spending in the name of "saving the economy", then policy must be changed to allow the economy we rebuild to restore power to the working class. This means a commodity backed currency (I like the basket of commodities idea proposed by many members on these forums), and the power to circulate that currency restored to the government, debt free. Until these core elements are put into place, nothing will save us from drastic income disparity.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


Edited by amp244 (11/01/15 01:13 AM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22460218 - 11/01/15 01:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
those quotes above suffice to end these 'Who owns the Fed' and 'Does the Constitution permit congress to create a Central Bank' debates I have been having with Falcon.



Very few of the quotes you presented have anything to do with the Federal Reserve; they are about the power of money, which we all agree with.  Many other quotes are from conspiracy theorists who aren't directly affiliated with the Federal Reserve and say things like we hear Ron Paul say.  The only quote I saw about the Fed from someone who might be in the know is the quote from Woodrow Wilson.  Turns out that quote is not verifiable.  The claim is he said it on his death bed, but no one seems to know who heard him say it.

You probably think I'm just being difficult with you, so please pick your favorite quote from the ones you provided and let's analyze it to see how strongly it supports your argument.

Quote:

amp244 said:
A healthy economy will experience recessions and downturns.  These are called correction periods. When the economy gets pumped up with cash in an effort to bring it out of depression or to force growth, you create bubbles which will eventually pop at a much more devastating magnitude than what was to have happened had this pseudo-demand not been brought into existence.



Oh really?  Why don't you look at the graph of inflation I just posted above, and tell me how things are less stable since the Fed, especially after the "Federal Reserve Reform Act of 1977"?  What you stated is libertarian propaganda.

Yes, unregulated markets will experience recessions and depressions, but there's nothing "healthy" about a depression.

Quote:

amp244 said:
The can has been kicked further down the road. Runaway debt is a problem, regardless of whether you choose to turn a blind eye to the future or not.



OF COURSE runaway debt is a huge problem!  But the Fed has NOTHING to do with it, other than allowing Congress to go into debt if it so chooses.  If Congress raised enough taxes to pay their bills, there would be no debt.  And I've supported reducing the Federal debt throughout this thread.

Quote:

amp244 said:
And in regards to the post WWII boom, you fail to take into account the liquidation of the debt. What you attribute to a massive stimulus, I attribute to a balanced budget.



Again, we're both in favor of balancing the budget.  But spending more than you take in IS favorable to the economy in the short term (I DON'T support doing this unless we're in a serious recession).  Reagan used that strategy to get out of the recession of the late 70's, Obama used that to get us out of the recession of 2008.  But once you're out of the recession, you need to start paying down debt again.

Quote:

amp244 said:
There are two sides to a balance sheet buddy. But like the quintessential bad economist, you keep your eye fixated on a single aspect of the equation.



You certainly are the straw man king.  :smirk:

Quote:

amp244 said:
I asked you to provide an instance where Congress effected a change without passing a law. You cited a law that congress passed. Do you see why arguing with you is such a mindfuck? I suppose the request still stands.



My apologies, I misread your question.  Again, I previously noted that we seem to agree on the powers of the Fed and of Congress.  My point was that Congress is effectively the owner of the Fed (if there is such a thing), and the Fed follows Congress' guidelines as managers.  Unless Congress changes the rules, this will always be the case.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22460251 - 11/01/15 01:35 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

eehoo said:
Let the economy collapse, and then rebuild. Nobody will listen until they are short on water and other resources



^^^Exactly^^^^



You guys really WANT water and resource shortages?!?!?

Instead, I think we need to reinstate laws that prevent bubbles from occurring in the first place.  Have a balance budget amendment.  Eliminate too big to fail corporations so we can let them go bankrupt the next time they make stupid decisions.

Quote:

amp244 said:
Circumvent a correction period here, circumvent one there. Continue printing money, continue racking up debt.



No, let's NOT rack up the debt!!!  No straw men, please.  :facepalm3:  :banghead:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22460341 - 11/01/15 01:29 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Just about all of those quotes are from conspiracy theorists. They all contend that a conspiracy exists in regards to various things regarding the banking system. Many of them deal with the Fed, and like I said before, the people making these statements are much closer to the loop than you and I. Like the one from Kennedy. He was a scary conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theorists are big bad scary people. :tinfoil:

Regarding the Wilson quote, I apologize for the misquote. Here is the actual quote on record.

"A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our
system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men."

"We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men."
Senate Doc. 23, 76th Congress, 1st Session. You'll find it on page 100.

So the real quote says the same thing, less the 'I have ruined my country' bit. I'm glad you allowed me to verify that for you. Ill edit the post to reflect this discovery.  :sherlock:

And I bet you love that chart. You've got to just love all that blue since the reform act. Watching those savings just inflate away just makes you so happy, huh? Hell yea! Go Fed!! I think you won the argument Falcon!  :osu:

In any event, I resign myself from this argument with you. You, Strawman Nazi:happyhitler:, are the king of the strawman. No one wants water shortages. The grayson video was posted in regards to the $1 trillion expansion of the balance sheet, not the losses you so strawmanningly harp on. I told you 3 or 4 times that he asked about the $1 trillion expansion of the balance sheet 8 months after the fact and she didn't even know that it expanded. Yes I think that is unreasonable, but who the fuck cares, you don't seem to think I ever made that point. You keep asking how long did it take to get their answer. I'm talking to a wall. You have succeeded in befuddling this argument to such an extent that I have not the stamina to filter through all your ridiculous poppycock in an effort to engage in straight forward debate.  :wow:

Go on thinking whatever it is you think about fiat currency, deficit spending, and Fed ownership. I care not, and frankly I think the members contributing to this thread are growing just as tired as I am over this hullabaloo. Good day sir. :doublefu:


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22460421 - 11/01/15 02:52 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvnr03 said:
please pick your favorite quote from the ones you provided and let's analyze it to see how strongly it supports your argument.



the people making these statements are much closer to the loop than you and I. Like the one from Kennedy. He was a scary conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theorists are big bad scary people. :tinfoil:



Fine, the Kennedy quote.  I found a lot of sites that argue he never said that (here's one), but nowhere could I find that speech.  Maybe you can help???

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvnr03 said:
The only quote I saw about the Fed from someone who might be in the know is the quote from Woodrow Wilson.  Turns out that quote is not verifiable.  The claim is he said it on his death bed, but no one seems to know who heard him say it.



Regarding the Wilson quote, I apologize for the misquote. Here is the actual quote on record.

"A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our
system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men."

"We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men."
Senate Doc. 23, 76th Congress, 1st Session. You'll find it on page 100.

So the real quote says the same thing, less the 'I have ruined my country' bit. I'm glad you allowed me to verify that for you. Ill edit the post to reflect this discovery.  :sherlock:



I already noted that most of your quotes "are about the power of money, which we all agree with."  Your updated quote appears to be about the power of money to influence Congress.  And I agree.

Quote:

amp244 said:
And I bet you love that chart. You've got to just love all that blue since the reform act. Watching those savings just inflate away just makes you so happy, huh? Hell yea! Go Fed!! I think you won the argument Falcon!  :osu:



Inflation is a well known phenomenon, and if you're dumb enough to put your money under your mattress, then no you won't be happy.  But if you understand inflation, and that we've had VERY stable inflation since the Federal Reserve Reform Act of 1977, you can invest your money accordingly.  And wages have almost kept up with inflation (they've gone down a little because Congress is less Main St friendly than it used to be), so it's not really the problem you claim, is it?

Quote:

amp244 said:
In any event, I resign myself from this argument with you. You, Strawman Nazi:happyhitler:, are the king of the strawman.
No one wants water shortages.



My apologies, I had no idea you were joking when you said "^^^Exactly^^^^...This country needs to endure great pain in order to turn this ship in the right direction."

A straw man is making up what the other person says.  It appeared to me that you supported boom and bust cycles.  :shrug:

Quote:

amp244 said:
The grayson video was posted in regards to the $1 trillion expansion of the balance sheet, not the losses you so strawmanningly harp on. I told you 3 or 4 times that he asked about the $1 trillion expansion of the balance sheet 8 months after the fact and she didn't even know that it expanded. Yes I think that is unreasonable, but who the fuck cares, you don't seem to think I ever made that point.



You didn't make that point, and regardless, no where did the Inspector General say she was unaware that the Fed's balance sheet expanded by $1 trillion.  Grayson's question was whether the Fed was "investigating" the $1 trillion expansion.  Her answer was they were "reviewing" it.

Quote:

amp244 said:
You keep asking how long did it take to get their answer. I'm talking to a wall. You have succeeded in befuddling this argument to such an extent that I have not the stamina to filter through all your ridiculous poppycock in an effort to engage in straight forward debate.  :wow:



So if an instantaneous answer to a question isn't provided, getting it next day isn't sufficient?  I realize the question was about something that started 8 months before the question was asked, but the answer didn't take 8 months to provide after it was asked.

Quote:

amp244 said:
Go on thinking whatever it is you think about fiat currency, deficit spending, and Fed ownership. I care not, and frankly I think the members contributing to this thread are growing just as tired as I am over this hullabaloo. Good day sir. :doublefu:



I do care what others have to say (yourself included), and I'd interested to hear what other people think about the discussion.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #22461127 - 11/01/15 09:07 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller, Memoirs, pg. 405, 2002 






I do think it's fair to say that wealthy/powerful people do get together, often secretly, to make plans on all sorts of things ... just as not so wealthy people do.  I have no doubt whatsoever that groups like the Trilateral Commission, CFR, Bilderbergers, Davos, etc are making all kinds of deals and transactions we'll never know about.

However, that's different than claiming there's a highly organized system of control that reports up to one central character that calls all the shots.  That's where I think it falls apart.

I believe leadership at that level is a lot more like warring mafia families than  an "Egypt-Like Pharaoh" that sits at the top in total command.  The only possible way I can see that scenario is if there is a very controlling Alien presence on our planet using wealthy/powerful humans as management.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (11/01/15 09:10 AM)


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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22461194 - 11/01/15 09:25 AM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

amp244 said:

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller, Memoirs, pg. 405, 2002 






I do think it's fair to say that wealthy/powerful people do get together, often secretly, to make plans on all sorts of things ... just as not so wealthy people do.  I have no doubt whatsoever that groups like the Trilateral Commission, CFR, Bilderbergers, Davos, etc are making all kinds of deals and transactions we'll never know about.

However, that's different than claiming there's a highly organized system of control that reports up to one central character that calls all the shots.  That's where I think it falls apart.

I believe leadership at that level is a lot more like warring mafia families than  an "Egypt-Like Pharaoh" that sits at the top in total command.  The only possible way I can see that scenario is if there is a very controlling Alien presence on our planet using wealthy/powerful humans as management.




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--------------------
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