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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22440169 - 10/27/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

qman said:

Not everyone was insolvent by any means, reward the responsible and prudent, instead they got punished. 

We know the deal, the concentrated power by the "too big too fail" banks creates a situation that scares the shit out of everybody when their needs are not met, nothing more than a 2 year old throwing a temper tantrum.

You guys want to break them up after the fact, how are you going to break up something you made even more powerful?  Not gonna happen.




I know a lot of democrats and I don't know a single one that thinks the big banks should be getting bigger.  EVERY ONE thinks they should be broken up and a modern version of the Glass Steagall act passed. EVERY ONE.  And, everyone agrees that Obama has been a huge disappointment, like Clinton and GWB in terms of prosecuting Wall Street.




You know some smart Democrats, like most of the people around here. Lots of Democrats actually do approve of Obama, unfortunately. For no apparent reason, honestly. He's up there with Reagan and Nixon for being the biggest liar to ever take office, in my mind.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22440176 - 10/27/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

>I know a lot of democrats and I don't know a single one that thinks the big banks should be getting bigger.  EVERY ONE thinks they should be broken up and a modern version of the Glass Steagall act passed. EVERY ONE.  And, everyone agrees that Obama has been a huge disappointment, like Clinton and GWB in terms of prosecuting Wall Street.

Then why aren't they doing something about it? A politicians promises, mean almost nothing, their speeches or things they say off the cuff mean even less. I want to see actions, not good intentions.

Amp and qman, you guys have nailed it, you did not let fal squirm out of anything or change the subject, bring in false narratives, etc even though he tried hard.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22440177 - 10/27/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Didn't the gold standard have it's own problems?

Didn't we go to fiat to prevent people from hoarding it and artificially increasing the value?


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Offlineqman
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22440204 - 10/27/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
Didn't the gold standard have it's own problems?

Didn't we go to fiat to prevent people from hoarding it and artificially increasing the value?




The major problem was when our debt holders started to demand our gold in exchange for their US bonds.  Since we had too much debt we had to leave the gold standard or lose whatever gold we had left.

A gold standard is at a fixed price, the only reason to hold gold is if you think the central bank is going to do a devaluation like they did in the 1930's.


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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22440240 - 10/27/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for clarifying.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley


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Invisibleamp244
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Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca] * 1
    #22440291 - 10/27/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
And you are all placing the blame on congress, but they are mere pawns in the scheme. The heart of the problem is the Fed. They are the policy setters, they are the ones pulling the strings. Congress has less than an hour to read the bailout bill of 1000+ pages and then vote on it. They don't have a say in anything that goes on regarding the economy. That's why a few of the ones who aren't completely compromised are so damn pissed.

So lets draw the connection. Federal Reserve is owned and operated by its private member banks ie: mega institutions on Wall Street. Wall Street controls the Federal Government. The Government delegated its constitutionally granted powers to coin money, over to the Federal Reserve who carries out what the government would have done, in complete secret. The Fed is responsible for setting policies which affect interest rates and the actions of the mega wall street institutions which just so happen to own and operate it. Congress has absolutely no say under this system. They are the ones to blame on the surface of things, but the Fed, and more specifically the multinational bankers who control it, are the actual source of the problems. These people run our country from the shadows and have no affiliation to it whatsoever.




What's your alternative to the Federal Reserve?




Step 1: A full and comprehensive audit of the FED.
I'm not saying send Joe Six-Pack an audit report in the mail. But representatives of Joe-Six Pack, who have his best interest in mind, need to know what is going on.

Step 2: Prosecute those who have engaged in illicit and nefarious dealings.
It would be a field day in there. Bankers would be shooting themselves left and right to avoid prison terms.

Step 3: Legalize competing currencies and make it legal to trade gold tax free, and list it as cash on your balance sheet.
The Fed should not have a monopoly on the currency. Plain and simple.

Step 4: Put the Central Bank under the Treasury where it was intended to be.
So long as we can drive Wall Street out of the government and elect genuine representatives of the American Public, there is no reason to think that they would be unable to do a good job as the lender of last resort.

Step 5: Institute a gold standard on the national currency.
Fractional Reserve banking would still apply, but if a gold standard were applied, the bankers would be forced to limit their credit extension based on gold reserves. They couldn't just implement QExInfinity. Typical market consequences would therefore apply and banks would be forced to make prudent decisions with their (our) money. No big brother to bail you out if your gambling doesn't pay off, you're out of business. There's another man waiting to fill the void. Our economy would be much more efficient.

Step 6: Sit back and watch the prosperity blossom before our eyes.
Welfare recipients lessen. Chronic deficit spending a thing of the past. Enjoy the stable and balanced growth in the economy. Watch income inequality lessen as the middle and working class citizens can avoid the confiscation of their savings. More disposable income. More private sector jobs. More genuine demand, and no Keynesian pseudo-demand bull shit.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22440350 - 10/27/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:


Step 1: A full and comprehensive audit of the FED.
I'm not saying send Joe Six-Pack an audit report in the mail. But representatives of Joe-Six Pack, who have his best interest in mind, need to know what is going on.

Step 2: Prosecute those who have engaged in illicit and nefarious dealings.
It would be a field day in there. Bankers would be shooting themselves left and right to avoid prison terms.

Step 3: Legalize competing currencies and make it legal to trade gold tax free, and list it as cash on your balance sheet.
The Fed should not have a monopoly on the currency. Plain and simple.

Step 4: Put the Central Bank under the Treasury where it was intended to be.
So long as we can drive Wall Street out of the government and elect genuine representatives of the American Public, there is no reason to think that they would be unable to do a good job as the lender of last resort.

Step 5: Institute a gold standard on the national currency.
Fractional Reserve banking would still apply, but if a gold standard were applied, the bankers would be forced to limit their credit extension based on gold reserves. They couldn't just implement QExInfinity. Typical market consequences would therefore apply and banks would be forced to make prudent decisions with their (our) money. No big brother to bail you out if your gambling doesn't pay off, you're out of business. There's another man waiting to fill the void. Our economy would be much more efficient.

Step 6: Sit back and watch the prosperity blossom before our eyes.
Welfare recipients lessen. Chronic deficit spending a thing of the past. Enjoy the stable and balanced growth in the economy. Watch income inequality lessen as the middle and working class citizens can avoid the confiscation of their savings. More disposable income. More private sector jobs. More genuine demand, and no Keynesian pseudo-demand bull shit.




At least you've got a clear and coherent plan, I'll give you that!  I think it would cause an enormous contraction of the money supply leading to a depression, but who knows?

The cause of the US economic doldrums, IMHO are globalization, technology replacing jobs, the ease of accessing the cheapest labor markets and the fact that the rest of the planet's manufacturing capabilities have caught up and surpassed us in some areas as we had a huge advantage for decades after WW2.  Add to that our demographic changes (aging of boomers) and increasing expenses of taking care of the elderly and we're in a real mess.

I think the answer has to do with better trade agreements, a massive re-education program for displaced workers and a re-thinking of what retirement means ... A much stronger move toward regional monetary, manufacturing, energy and job security.  I think a gold standard would strengthen the dollar, contract the money supply and crush the economy.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22440412 - 10/27/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
And you are all placing the blame on congress, but they are mere pawns in the scheme. The heart of the problem is the Fed. They are the policy setters, they are the ones pulling the strings. Congress has less than an hour to read the bailout bill of 1000+ pages and then vote on it. They don't have a say in anything that goes on regarding the economy. That's why a few of the ones who aren't completely compromised are so damn pissed.

So lets draw the connection. Federal Reserve is owned and operated by its private member banks ie: mega institutions on Wall Street. Wall Street controls the Federal Government. The Government delegated its constitutionally granted powers to coin money, over to the Federal Reserve who carries out what the government would have done, in complete secret. The Fed is responsible for setting policies which affect interest rates and the actions of the mega wall street institutions which just so happen to own and operate it. Congress has absolutely no say under this system. They are the ones to blame on the surface of things, but the Fed, and more specifically the multinational bankers who control it, are the actual source of the problems. These people run our country from the shadows and have no affiliation to it whatsoever.




What's your alternative to the Federal Reserve?




Step 1: A full and comprehensive audit of the FED.
I'm not saying send Joe Six-Pack an audit report in the mail. But representatives of Joe-Six Pack, who have his best interest in mind, need to know what is going on.

Step 2: Prosecute those who have engaged in illicit and nefarious dealings.
It would be a field day in there. Bankers would be shooting themselves left and right to avoid prison terms.

Step 3: Legalize competing currencies and make it legal to trade gold tax free, and list it as cash on your balance sheet.
The Fed should not have a monopoly on the currency. Plain and simple.

Step 4: Put the Central Bank under the Treasury where it was intended to be.
So long as we can drive Wall Street out of the government and elect genuine representatives of the American Public, there is no reason to think that they would be unable to do a good job as the lender of last resort.

Step 5: Institute a gold standard on the national currency.
Fractional Reserve banking would still apply, but if a gold standard were applied, the bankers would be forced to limit their credit extension based on gold reserves. They couldn't just implement QExInfinity. Typical market consequences would therefore apply and banks would be forced to make prudent decisions with their (our) money. No big brother to bail you out if your gambling doesn't pay off, you're out of business. There's another man waiting to fill the void. Our economy would be much more efficient.

Step 6: Sit back and watch the prosperity blossom before our eyes.
Welfare recipients lessen. Chronic deficit spending a thing of the past. Enjoy the stable and balanced growth in the economy. Watch income inequality lessen as the middle and working class citizens can avoid the confiscation of their savings. More disposable income. More private sector jobs. More genuine demand, and no Keynesian pseudo-demand bull shit.




Another good one, amp. I agree totally with all except possibly 5. That one I would have to think about. Maybe have it backed by a basket of commodities so if one shoots up or down it does not cause a big upset. But no more qe, no more crooked dealing. Just like with the tpp they want to keep the fed secret to cover up the wrong doing.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 5 hours, 22 minutes
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22440443 - 10/27/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
And you are all placing the blame on congress, but they are mere pawns in the scheme. The heart of the problem is the Fed. They are the policy setters, they are the ones pulling the strings. Congress has less than an hour to read the bailout bill of 1000+ pages and then vote on it. They don't have a say in anything that goes on regarding the economy. That's why a few of the ones who aren't completely compromised are so damn pissed.

So lets draw the connection. Federal Reserve is owned and operated by its private member banks ie: mega institutions on Wall Street. Wall Street controls the Federal Government. The Government delegated its constitutionally granted powers to coin money, over to the Federal Reserve who carries out what the government would have done, in complete secret. The Fed is responsible for setting policies which affect interest rates and the actions of the mega wall street institutions which just so happen to own and operate it. Congress has absolutely no say under this system. They are the ones to blame on the surface of things, but the Fed, and more specifically the multinational bankers who control it, are the actual source of the problems. These people run our country from the shadows and have no affiliation to it whatsoever.




What's your alternative to the Federal Reserve?




Step 1: A full and comprehensive audit of the FED.
I'm not saying send Joe Six-Pack an audit report in the mail. But representatives of Joe-Six Pack, who have his best interest in mind, need to know what is going on.

Step 2: Prosecute those who have engaged in illicit and nefarious dealings.
It would be a field day in there. Bankers would be shooting themselves left and right to avoid prison terms.

Step 3: Legalize competing currencies and make it legal to trade gold tax free, and list it as cash on your balance sheet.
The Fed should not have a monopoly on the currency. Plain and simple.

Step 4: Put the Central Bank under the Treasury where it was intended to be.
So long as we can drive Wall Street out of the government and elect genuine representatives of the American Public, there is no reason to think that they would be unable to do a good job as the lender of last resort.

Step 5: Institute a gold standard on the national currency.
Fractional Reserve banking would still apply, but if a gold standard were applied, the bankers would be forced to limit their credit extension based on gold reserves. They couldn't just implement QExInfinity. Typical market consequences would therefore apply and banks would be forced to make prudent decisions with their (our) money. No big brother to bail you out if your gambling doesn't pay off, you're out of business. There's another man waiting to fill the void. Our economy would be much more efficient.

Step 6: Sit back and watch the prosperity blossom before our eyes.
Welfare recipients lessen. Chronic deficit spending a thing of the past. Enjoy the stable and balanced growth in the economy. Watch income inequality lessen as the middle and working class citizens can avoid the confiscation of their savings. More disposable income. More private sector jobs. More genuine demand, and no Keynesian pseudo-demand bull shit.




I've always said that a gold standard benefits the working class, it's not a perfect model by any means, but I think it's better than the status quo.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: qman]
    #22440459 - 10/27/15 02:13 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

You guys do realize that a big contraction of the money supply literally guarantees a steep recession and probably, given how weak things are, a depression, right? 

The gold standard and tighter lending policy would be a shock that would bring America to its knees ... and interest rates would go higher as well.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 5 hours, 22 minutes
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22440490 - 10/27/15 02:25 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
You guys do realize that a big contraction of the money supply literally guarantees a steep recession and probably, given how weak things are, a depression, right? 

The gold standard and tighter lending policy would be a shock that would bring America to its knees ... and interest rates would go higher as well.




I don't recall anyone suggesting that the US should implement a gold standard today.

We already have a massive contraction in the velocity of money and credit extension into the economy, so how's the current system been working?

Does racking up $20 trillion in Federal debt sound like a better long term alternative?  Both monetary systems have lots of flaws.


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Invisibleamp244
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Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22440496 - 10/27/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Here is a chart outlining the gold reserves in tons of various countries.



As you can see the U.S. 8,133.5 tons of gold are stored. At a value (as measured by U.S. Dollars) of $37,472,608 per ton, the entire U.S. holding would amount to $304,783,457,168 for the U.S. alone. At a reserve ratio of 10%, over $3 trillion of cash would be circulating just off of what is in reserves in the U.S.  As it stands now the M2 money supply (USD) is at $10.5 trillion, throughout the entire world, and not just what is in the U.S.

I don't think there would be any sort of liquidity problem under the system. If anything the USD might trade at a premium and therefore less monetary units would be necessary to satisfy business's cash demands.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


Edited by amp244 (10/27/15 02:29 PM)


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Invisibleamp244
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Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22440512 - 10/27/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

But like qman said this is not something that can be done in one week. The first step is to legalize competing currencies. The final step is to peg the national currency to gold.


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22440570 - 10/27/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
But like qman said this is not something that can be done in one week. The first step is to legalize competing currencies. The final step is to peg the national currency to gold.




At any rate, it's a fringe idea ... not a single serious candidate is suggesting we do this ... it isn't even on the table ... It's a libertarian/Ron Paul kinda idea that has virtually no support at all so it's simply not going to happen.  I think it is much more likely that the US Treasury may consider issuing a competing currency as Lincoln and JFK did as that's a way to seriously reduce the debt over time ... Pegging Federal Reserve Notes to gold is not going to happen.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Invisibleamp244
Sporocarp Stretching


Registered: 08/05/08
Posts: 1,336
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22440588 - 10/27/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
But like qman said this is not something that can be done in one week. The first step is to legalize competing currencies. The final step is to peg the national currency to gold.




At any rate, it's a fringe idea ... not a single serious candidate is suggesting we do this ... it isn't even on the table ... It's a libertarian/Ron Paul kinda idea that has virtually no support at all so it's simply not going to happen.  I think it is much more likely that the US Treasury may consider issuing a competing currency as Lincoln and JFK did as that's a way to seriously reduce the debt over time ... Pegging Federal Reserve Notes to gold is not going to happen.



It could happen, if politicians weren't bought and paid for by the banking cartel that is in power.

Paul is no slouch when it comes to economics. He was the only Presidential candidate willing to debate ANYONE on his economic ideology. No one else believes or knows enough about what they are talking about to go toe to toe with the establishment's talking heads like Krugman, anytime, anywhere.

"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads."
- Ron Paul


--------------------
How to Convert a Normal 24-hour Light Timer into a Short Cycle Repeating Timer


"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: amp244]
    #22440886 - 10/27/15 04:21 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:

It could happen, if politicians weren't bought and paid for by the banking cartel that is in power.

Paul is no slouch when it comes to economics. He was the only Presidential candidate willing to debate ANYONE on his economic ideology. No one else believes or knows enough about what they are talking about to go toe to toe with the establishment's talking heads like Krugman, anytime, anywhere.

"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads."
- Ron Paul




That's an enormous "if". 

Austrian theory on economics is simply not a movement anywhere that I can think of.  I like Ron Paul and like Rand as well, but they're combined popularity is an indication of the likelihood of success of their economic ideas. 

Ron's disease quote is funny ... even funnier that he was an HOR Representative for 8 terms.  He stayed clean, though, for the most part and deserves credit for it.

Anyway, I think we're headed for some kind of global debt reset anyway ... the exact opposite direction of Ron Paul.  Not that it's right or wrong, just that it's what's likely to happen.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22441158 - 10/27/15 05:32 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

So, KO, why does the US government hoard gold if it's such an insecure poor investment?

All countries hoard gold, actually.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22441210 - 10/27/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
So, KO, why does the US government hoard gold if it's such an insecure poor investment?

All countries hoard gold, actually.




Depending on timing, gold can move pretty quickly and generate some great returns ... losses as well.  Classic portfolio advice is to keep 5-10% of your holdings in gold/silver/platinum as a hedge against inflation and as a just in case kinda currency. 

I don't think the government really looks at it as an investment, more as a reserve.  It's a legacy holdover that goes back a long, long time.  Why is man so fascinated with Gold is a GREAT question ... Probably a much more complex answer than we're ready to hear.  But for sure, gold is a universally accepted currency when all else fails.

The government probably looks at gold as a just in case kinda reserve ... if it all goes to shit we have this gold kinda outlook.  From what I hear, the actual audits on the gold reserves are kinda iffy and in terms of how much is actually there is often disputed, but I don't know for sure. 

Government and currency is based a lot on trust.  Ability to pay debts, solvency, military strength/threat, GDP, etc.  Gold is one of those factors too.  The dollar is also the global reserve currency so that plays a role as well.


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"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22441226 - 10/27/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

I know many people are quite skeptical about how much gold we actually have. As I said though, if you're worried about a financial collapse, gold is a pretty safe bet. Precious metals in general are.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Hillary 'Turns Over' E-mail Server and Thumbnail drive to FBI [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22441256 - 10/27/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I know many people are quite skeptical about how much gold we actually have. As I said though, if you're worried about a financial collapse, gold is a pretty safe bet. Precious metals in general are.




That kind of "worry" can generate a lot of irrational thinking and decisions.  Underground bunkers filled with guns, ammo and military rations, for example.  When people talk about a financial "collapse" I believe it's just the evolution of man's irrational attraction to apocalyptic thinking.  When you ask them WHY a collapse and what would cause it, they never think it through and instead throw out slogans like "we have too much debt" or, "our government is not sustainable" or "China is going to overtake us."

In reality, there's not an economy on the planet anywhere near the US's strength, credibility, size, manufacturing importance and stability.  Or military importance.  Natural resources.  Research universities.  Important innovative companies.  Arts, media ... The US is so far ahead it's not even funny.

And yet, I think, deep down, they WANT the US to fail.  I hate dishonesty in government as much as the next guy and the deception, theft, graft, collusion is as disgusting to me as the next guy ... but I don't secretly hope for failure so some kid of US Phoenix can rise from the ashes.

I think the history of our planet is quite different from the narrative the sheep believe.  This is why our government is not at all what it appears to be ... and it's been going on for a long, long time.  And will continue.  I"ve come to believe our mission on this planet is to grow and transcend the need to even be here ... not to "fix" the way our planet is administrated.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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