naykid said:

The only problem I see is, where are some examples of the mind by itself, without the body having any effect at all on the physical world? except maybe facial communication but that doesn't really count does it?

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rxb said:

i dont think there is any proof that cant be refuded by saying "that is just hearsay" or "that person is lying"

but thats no reason to not look, and explore.

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glimpee said:

naykid said:

The only problem I see is, where are some examples of the mind by itself, without the body having any effect at all on the physical world? except maybe facial communication but that doesn't really count does it?

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There isn't anything credible. But that doesn't have to mean it's impossible.

There are people to attest hand and foot to being able to do this

but at the very least - conscious can at least have impact on reality from ones own perspective - but it is harder to get others to experience the same perception. I believe maybe that will be possible once connecting to the "universal conscious" if possible.

but in my world - with my mind - I can make things (mostly patterns) expand/contract, spin, etc very slightly (i'm new to this) and I think perhaps in I actually practice and believe I can do it (since telekinesis is the power of WILL, one NEEDS to fullheardedly believe, until he gets ruthlessly beaten by the truth.

But whats the point in assuming we know everything that is possible and that isn't? Why not just explore the limits of your own physical and mental being? Master yourself!

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naykid said:

I agree, but if you're gonna climb the mountain of discovery you first have to find a foot hold, and if you don't find one then you shouldn't be trying to get others to join you on your climb because you might be wasting there time, trying to find something that may not exist, it's better left to a solitary study until you have something meaningful to share that others may be able to further, rather then raising hope that there is no grounds for.

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mmmmmbro.

1. Im not trying to get anyone to join me
2. this post is to ask for help to get that foothold, reaching out to the most spiritually in-tune community I know. I figured if anyone had any idea where to start, they might be here.


Sorry for sounding like a douche - I just really wanted to write a douchey post. No offense intended

naykid said:

Maybe there is a telekinetic effect but its like getting chimps to run NASAs programming centers or something highly sophisticated like that which we're not developed enough to control yet.

On DMT I felt like I was interacting with very fine frequencies of my existence/mind so maybe theres is something there. But it may have just been a glance into the subconscious that deals with the constant input of biological activity that is happening. 

Who knows though right, it's currently beyond us.

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rxb said:

i read somewhere a long time ago, that computer randomizers did something odd around major events.

i need to go back and look at that. with one computer it wasnt noticeable they needed lots and lots.

but the details are escaping me at the moment.

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tedias said:

A large problem with the Psychokinesis research in America (I say America because it was Americans at the forefront of the research), is that it simply did not meet scientific criteria for explanation. Unfortunately I studied this a long time ago and do not have sources on hand, but you can understand this to be a logical conclusion without the need for external stipulations in media sources.

The major problem essentially, was that Psycho/Telekinesis cannot be proven fallible. One could come up with an array of excuses as to why it did not work, for instance that psycho/telekinesis will not work when it is studied, due to some metaphysical circumstance.

There is no empirical way to disprove psycho/telekinesis, much as there is no empirical method of disproving god that cannot be countered by claiming "that is simply the way of God, to go undetected.

This is not to say psycho/telekinesis (or god, for that matter) does not exist, but rather that it makes it much more difficult to prove/disprove, and therefore much more difficult accept or believe in a modern scientific society.

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Balousch said:

Instinct tells me I have something to contribute So here I go.

A decade ago with a newly opened mind, undergoing tutoring by my father (one hell of a hippy with doctorate something set theory-ish that is beyond me (math) / masters in philosophy, quantum mechanics, and topology (math)), I came to the realization our universe is vastly larger than what we perceive. Thus, started personal study in magick/spell casting and spirituality.

(On a side note I think spell casting is the same thing as religious prayer - praying for protection = casting a spell for protection.)

I had two experiences two years after this that goes in line with this thread:

1. I was hiking with a girl I truly love, and at the start she had to urinate. So she walked away to do her business and she made a big fuss about Me not looking. Out of my boyish (early-mid twenties) tendencies I decided to try to remote view the deed with my mind instead of my eyes. (No this is not a fetish of mine, was more playful in a flirtatious way.)

Results of attempt#1:
Image promptly formed of her squatting pants down with my viewpoint looking upwards at her privates, within a couple seconds I was overcome with guilt as I do respect and love her and dissolved image. I am not convinced this is real remote viewing, could of been my overactive imagination of a horny young adult mind.


2. A couple weeks later I was lying in bed fortifying my intentions for the day ahead, and decided to try to send my emotions of love for this girl (same one). It took what felt like 5minutes then I was floating above an entity which I knew was her so I tried to "broadcast" my emotions. Within a second or two I felt rejection and could not make a connection again that night.

Next day, we went hiking again. During car ride up she told me as she was lying in bed falling asleep when she felt an entity creep up her leg and invade and this happened to her in the time frame I happened to be trying to communicate. So she got up and cast her mental protection spells (she is a practicing wiccan).


After the second event I felt I was not using my spirituality properly and stopped trying with intentions to revisit the phenomena when I have matured more and am more experienced spiritually. Have never revisited it since.


Reactions:
I am inclined to disregard first attempt (the peepee incident) as my overactive mind. Second attempt could be real but could be coincidence, but second attempt felt so real to me though. I like to think second attempt is real but have no defined answer without more experience.

As a quick bit: the girl and I shared one hell of a connection like I have never experienced anywhere else. It felt like we were soul mates though we were never romantically involved or sexually intimate.

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rxb said:

im very interested in magick.

not wicca. and not illusion. the term means science before science. in such i have studied some of MANY religions. and i think they are all largely the same thing.

1) asking others.
2) doing it yourself
3) something in between.

i'll break down my thoughts really quickly, but there is a lot more depth

1) prayer / goetic magick / medium magic...etc. (asking others)

thoughts have a lot of power. creative thought has a lot of power. kids see mcdonalds signs and get hungry. etc. sure this is conditioning but its also the idea of a concept or a thought having power.

i had an experience about 8 years ago, that left me feeling absolutely sure that we continue after death in some form. i think i have that form sort of figured out, but this is a forum post not a book.

if we continue after death so do our thoughts and thoughts ... seem to have power.

if you pray to a god. or use the goetia ... you are calling on the personality of a thought... to help you get something done in exchange for something.

just like different people have different personalities, such is the case with disembodied energy. altruistic energy is interested in gratitude, praise, and being put on a pedestal. selfish energy is interested in striking a deal.

when i want a banana i dont want to wait for an altruistic person to provide one, i typically want to find a selfish person, who has one they are willing to strike a deal for, it saves time and its more effective.

same is true of energy.

2) doing it yourself, telepathy, telekenesis, remote veiwing etc.
many times doing something yourself is just the best way to go, i have seen almost no evidence of this being something people can actually do, except with regards to things that have happened specifically with me and around me. here is an example, i make no claims as to what really happened. it was 1996 and i was at a party, in college, in charleston sc. i had no car at the time, and i was dragged by my roomates. the party was at a friends house named phill (i actually cant remember the guys real name)...so i get there and i drink waaaaaaaaaaaay too much. i got talked into an upside down keg stand after i had already had a few... so i went in his house. it was kind of open floor plan. and i sat on the couch and looked over at the clock in the kitchen. and it said 1:10 (i dont actually remember what time it was, just the circumstances of the story so i'm using 1:10). and i thought to my self, i'm way to drunk i really wish i was home. and i closed my eyes.... at somepoint i opened them again and i was in my apartment... our dorms were in this apartment complex 4 people to an apartment, 2 beds 2 baths.... i hadnt taken my keys we had locked up the apartment... i looked at the clock it was 1:18.

my roomate got home... FLIPPED OUT... how did you get here? i told him the last i remembered i was sitting on the couch. phills house was about 10 miles from the apartment complex the dorms were in. not too far to walk so i supposed either i had walked, or someone had driven me. it was about a 20 minute drive.

and went back to sleep...

the next day phill called. kind of freaked out when i answered kind of like jay had done the night before. yelled at me because they had apparently spent some time looking for me... some bullshit about thinking a gator had eaten me... so i asked him what time the clock in the kitchen said. and it turns out... i must have made the trip in 1 minute.

now i guess his clock could have gotten screwed with, and i could have gotten a ride home etc etc etc. it was just odd.

i know of stories like this in my life and from others. but nothing repeatable and varifiable.

3) a mixture.
just that... a mixture of prayer/asking and personal force to make something happen.
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crowley said the way to do this is to practice ... to want things you know are achievable... and then slowly push the boundaries until you are doing stuff thats unbelievable thus learning how to focus your will.

one of the reason i think these things are hard to repeat for proof. is that in some ways we DONT WANT there to be proof.

and perhaps the others witnessing do not want there to be proof.

which is kind of type 3. they will it... and ask you for help. which makes it impossible.

but typically speaking i think that whatever may be there, would take a lot of practice to get it so you could repeat it anyhow. i have no idea how i got home that night, it SEEMS paranormal. but it very well could have had good explanations. however i cant do that at will.

so i think james randi's million dollar prize is safe from me

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