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Anonymous

Re: Question on one of J.C.'s teachings... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1156029 - 12/19/02 06:03 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, I don't have time for a long dialogue with you on this but I disagree with some of your presuppositions here. In fact, my tenets run completely contrary.

Beliefs, on the other hand can be contradicted. It may actually be only apparent contradictions based on formulation.

There are not apparent contradictions according to 'beliefs' but actual contradictions as well as contraries. The 'belief' that 'beliefs' cannot contradict each other is a false 'belief'.

I have been blessed with a number of experiences that may correspond to those spoken of in Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist religions. The doctrines helped create the experiences and the experiences were best described by specific religious doctrines.

I am not sure that the doctrines 'created' the experiences as I am that they helped you interpret the experiences from within their paradigm.

"....the empirical results of my prayer life, time and time again, that supports my continued faith in God."

For me as well. I kept a prayer 'journal' to keep track of answered prayers, unanswered prayers, etc. But that has little to do with my belief in a Supreme Being. It could be entirely possible that other forces were at work, the mind, for instance.

Sorry to disagree. I think you are a great contributor to this forum and it would be a poorer place without you.

Peace,


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
Re: Question on one of J.C.'s teachings... [Re: Swami]
    #1156687 - 12/19/02 11:49 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

You'll have to PM me for the finest example of a specific 'request' being answered. This is a personal experience of a sacred variety, and I will not put it out there in an impersonal way.

In a less serious vein, I'd add that sometimes life is like a whole lot of green lights on an otherwise annoyingly stop-and-go drive. I cannot prove to another empirically, the results of say, intecessory prayer for someone undergoing major surgery, and things don't look too good. One would have to be the 'pray-er,' and begin to develop a strange sense that 'everything will be alright.' This is what is called 'assurance' in theological circles, and has a particularly strange feeling of certitude and doubtlessness (or fearlessness) about it. It is a subtle thing that becomes less subtle and more recognizable with each event. It is similar to the 'ring-like-a-bell-in-the-head' telepathy I used to get on acid. At first I thought that I heard someone say something, but later, I recognized that the sound of their voice 'occurred' in my head, but without the usual sensation (that we never notice otherwise) in our ears.

I believe that prayer of petition may be an 'acausal' reality. I do not bend God's Will, but perhaps my very desire and the subsequent prayer is instilled in the very script of my life. I pray for something that is going to happen anyway, and my desire is for that exact thing that is going to happen anyway. But the desire is connected to who I am, what my interests have been for years, so it seems to be a very personal reponse. Or again, it may be a precognition of what is to occur, with a wish or full desire for that which is to occur. In the latter sense, my will is in exact accordance with God's Will - I am One with God in the sense of being of One Will. This is the 'Not my will, by Thy Will be done,' Oneness that Jesus epitomizes in the Scriptures. Prayer thus becomes a glimpse of 'how it all is' when one lives in the Spirit. This moment is a a taste of the Life of Christ, from a Christian point of view. It would be great to be there full-time, but that is the goal of mysticism - of Union with Ultimate Reality - with God.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Question on one of J.C.'s teachings... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1156887 - 12/20/02 02:42 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

You are a very deep person Markos. I know you mean well and I thank you and respect you for that. However, your take on prayer, while perhaps effective for you, gives me no direction or hope of harnessing this mysterious power / tool for making positive change.

Your specific incident would be interesting, but not utilitarian as a guidepost.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Question on one of J.C.'s teachings... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1157065 - 12/20/02 04:17 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

your reply to Phluck makes me think a careful reading of any of Ken Wilber's full length, intensive books, like _The Eye of Spirit_, would drastically improve conversation. some of the things you say really take a book to understand.

blessings, cj



--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Question on one of J.C.'s teachings... [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1157091 - 12/20/02 04:31 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Wasn't Wilber the owner of Mr. Ed, the talking horse?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Question on one of J.C.'s teachings... [Re: Swami]
    #1157320 - 12/20/02 06:12 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

way to go, daddy-o.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Anonymous

Re: Question on one of J.C.'s teachings... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1157798 - 12/20/02 10:07 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)

Your last post was beautiful.


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Invisiblei am e goldstein
Your Friend

Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 283
Loc: 4 Blocks from Ground Zero
Post deleted by Administrator [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1157996 - 12/20/02 11:28 AM (21 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------
Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.
3DSHROOMS is either clueless or the worlds biggest SCUMBAG
I lie and exagerate constantly... God Bless America!


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Question on one of J.C.'s teachings... [Re: i am e goldstein]
    #1158397 - 12/20/02 02:55 PM (21 years, 2 months ago)

We are all god's children. We all came from god.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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