Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6  [ show all ]
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: EntheogenicJourney]
    #20139344 -

Quote:
To an alien looking down on humans we could be seen as simply reacting to stimuli.  Only a mind reading alien could have solid proof of the level of consciousness we possess.  So from a human perspective looking at mammals in particular, no one can know what its like to be a cow but we can observe very social behavior and severe reactions to painful experiences that make it appear logical that there is a high level of capacity for suffering compared to a plant an insect or a fish. 

Besides this is the complexity of the brains in mammals compared to less evolved animals.



I get this point of view. I do comprehend that yes.... you can tell when an animal is in pain.... and you can prove it is experiencing it. I dunno.... I just think that pain... shouldn't be the determining factor of life.

I get that humans have put everything they have into lowering pain. We've made medicine that numbs an area.... we've discovered the difference between stimuli reacting in pain and our mind creating worse pain than there is...

I dunno.... how we react to something seems to be a basis of figuring things out..... by starting with a bias view.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan]
    #20139363 -

I dunno..... I think we should eat all life without bias lol. We should allow farm animals to live well... and we should allow plants to live well.


I dunno.... I have 0 problems with vegetarians.... its completely understandable.... I instantly feel the same feelings an ethical vegetarian would feel about either the suffering or the death of an animal for your food.

I think anyone who gives you crap about it.... is ignoring their own instinct to feel bad for a dead animal. You may not care as much about the dead animal.... but you can at least understand where the OP is coming from. So the only jackasses are the ones who give you crap about it.


--------------------
"Mein Fuhrer!!!! I can WALK!!!!"



For every trolls head you sever... 10 more will spawn in its place.
For every 10 trolls you give advice to... 1 will listen.


Special thanks to shroompuncher for making the cool pic <3

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MuffinShroomMan] * 1
    #20140675 -

There's so many reasons to go vegetarian besides just ethical reasons. That's just a small part, talk about the pollution it causes and how much better your health is.

https://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article24.aspx

http://facts.randomhistory.com/facts-about-vegetarianism-and-veganism.html

Anyone with a brain would look at these facts and understand why people go vegan/vegetarian and even consider making the switch.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: LittileSkierDude]
    #20142861 -

I'll admit to anyone who asks that I was raised eating meat, and have at times eaten meat as an adult. But, ever since my first psychedelic trip on Heavenly Blue Morning Glory seeds, when my mom prepared a burger for me, and I watched it breathe (an obvious projection), that started the compassion rolling. I was almost 18 then, and I've struggled to remain an ethical vegetarian now for 42 years. I simply tell people who even bother to ask, "I'm not eating meat/mammals/animals these days," depending on whether I've eliminated fish or fowl in addition to mammals (which are my priority to avoid).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #20160206 -

It is not possible for a severed limb of flesh to continue living. Often severing a limb will cause its owner to pass as well.

It is possible to sever a limb from a tree or plant, and have a completely new plant thrive. This should give question as to what is the actual life form that is believed to "feel" or "die".

A person ingesting a plant is not killing that plant unless cooking it first. As live cells the cells continue with the consciousness absorbing into the consciousness of the human, effectively piggybacking on the human. This brings an added range of experience to the "Oversoul" of the plant species, as it gains experience "through" the being of flesh.

This is not possible for beings of flesh, (at least not without rigorous ritual).


--------------------
Axiatonal Grid Repair (reconstruction of the energy bodies)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: GridWorker]
    #20160325 -

When you ingest a plant don't your stomach acids effectively cook it?  Not to mention the heat in your gut.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: Icelander]
    #20164610 -

The cells of the plant continue to signal and communicate with the body. (The reason it is called live food) No such thing happens with flesh.


--------------------
Axiatonal Grid Repair (reconstruction of the energy bodies)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: GridWorker]
    #20164652 -

???

The entire point of digesting food is breaking down cells. The cellular components are then used by the body. This happens with any type of food.


--------------------
Movie Thread - Reviews! Discussion! Fun!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: GridWorker]
    #20164694 -

GridWorker said:
The cells of the plant continue to signal and communicate with the body. (The reason it is called live food) No such thing happens with flesh.


I'm going to call bs on that until you provide some credible evidence.

Btw I eat mostly raw food these days.  But without some flesh food I seem to falter after a while.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: Icelander]
    #20168928 -

Quote:
Notably, EPDENs were found to be resistant to gastric and intestinal enzymatic digestion, further indicating they are capable of exerting significant biological effects by escaping digestive degradation, which has also been found with lectins and microRNA’s within edible foods.

http://consciouslifenews.com/edible-plants-talk-animal-cells-promote-healing/1173691/#

Cell walls are also a source of biologically active signalling molecules.

Today we invest in expensive blenders in order to break the cell walls for digestion.

Quote:
When we eat plants, we take in a large amount of plant cells surrounded by a fibrous complex called a cell wall. A major component of this cell wall is cellulose. Humans do not manufacture the cellulase enzyme needed to digest this type of fiber and must rely on fermentation by the flora in the large intestine.

This process allows us to break down a small portion of these plant fibers, but the rest act as bulking agents that are eliminated in the stool.

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/cellulase/

Not really sure how you can come to the conclusion that a plant is "dead" when we eat it. If anything the larger portion of the plant becomes "dead" after excretion.

In fact eating a plant that is "dead" is considered eating "ROT" which can be very dangerous. It would also be dangerous if it become rot in the intestines.

Also of interest......
Quote:
Soluble fiber
This form of fiber dissolves during digestion and creates a gel-like substance that protects the entire digestive tract from absorbing various substances such as cholesterol and reduces the risk of blood sugar fluctuations. This type of fiber is found in fruits and vegetables such as as prunes, brussels sprouts, brown rice, oats and rice bran.

Insoluble fiber
Unlike soluble, insoluble fiber goes through very little change as it enters the body and is eliminated. It prevents constipation and promotes healthy regular elimination preventing the amount of time potentially harmful substances, such as bile, remain in contact with the colon. This type of fiber can found in foods such as wheat, beans, bran, figs and artichokes.

http://www.livewellnaturally.com/Health-and-Nutrition-Articles/Health-Conditions/Internal-Cleansing/Support-Articles/Examples-of-Toxic-Waste-2.html


--------------------
Axiatonal Grid Repair (reconstruction of the energy bodies)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: GridWorker]
    #20168962 -

Well that's interesting stuff.  I've been into raw for years but still feel better overall if some animal food is included.

Makes you wonder about folk like the early Eskimos who did not have access to plant foods in general.  I don't remember reading they suffered from much degenerative disease .

Anyway. I love sprouting and eating sprouts. I also make a lot of raw fermented foods.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: GridWorker]
    #20168963 -

Well that's interesting stuff.  I've been into raw for years but still feel better overall if some animal food is included.

Makes you wonder about folk like the early Eskimos who did not have access to plant foods in general.  I don't remember reading they suffered from much degenerative disease .

Anyway. I love sprouting and eating sprouts. I also make a lot of raw fermented foods.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: GridWorker]
    #20169092 -

That first link is interesting. However, rats have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria that allows them to digest cellulose. This leads me to believe they would be able to release these EPDENs in numbers much higher than humans. Also, this information doesn't imply the the cells are still alive. I would assume that the plants already contain these EPDENs and that they are not formed in response to interaction with animal cells. This would be supported by the fact that the EPDEMs were extracted from the plant cells and then put into the mice (i'm kind of deducing this, I can't access the full article.)

Also, I don't really think that plant cells can be said to still be alive after they have been ingested. They are no longer part of the organism. They can't replicate to contribute to the growth of the organism. Plant cells are not single celled organisms. They cannot make energy on their own. They cannot support themselves.


--------------------
Movie Thread - Reviews! Discussion! Fun!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: clock_of_omens] * 1
    #20170108 -

An interesting point many vegetarians/Vegans often overlook is the impact of agriculture. They feel that they are not harming animals because they don't see them end up on their plate, but it is not true.  First off, clearing land for agriculture has taken the habitat of many animals.  Next lots of small rodents and birds are killed by harvesting machinery or pesticides.  Then if they eat organic they are using natural fertilizers which has animal waste and even dead animals in it.  I guess if you are practicing 100% vegan permaculture or only harvesting wild fruit you might claim not to have any negative impact.  But this is not possible for the majority of humans.

Then there are the vegans I know who live in places with winter for 6 months of the year.  Everyday they need to eat produce flown in from other countries, those planes kill birds and pollute the environment.  What is ethically right and best for humans to eat can vary widely based on geographical location.  Personally I would say eating locally and in season, from small biodiverse farms has the least environmental impact.  If you are eating conventional produce thinking it is better than meat, well that industrial agriculture is contributing to the destruction of many ecosystems, causing dead zones in the ocean, etc etc.  just because the animals don't end up on your plate doesn't mean they aren't dying.  Going into the forest and shooting a deer or moose cleanly will probably cause less suffering to animals than most vegetarian diets, it's just the dead animal you have to see rather than being hidden.

As for plants, they do many of the same things animals do.  Recognize kin, call out (using chemicals) when being eaten, and make complex growth plans (up to year ahead) based on the information they receive about nutrients and light.  They don't have a animal nervous system, but they integrate information from roots and leaves to make growth decisions, showing some levels of intelligence.  They have every right to grow and trive in a proper environment as animals do.

Now the most efficient farms use a mix of animals and plants together.  Animals can eat the plant wastes that humans can't, along with insects and pests. Plants use the fertilizer from the animals.  It's been happening like that for millions of years, and to remove animals from the mix makes things a lot harder.

Last point, the most ethical food to eat is in fact an animal.  The oyster.

Oysters don't feel pain, and also have less environmental impact than any land farming.  Oyster farms cannot pollute (actually can clean the water) and don't deprive anything of a habitat.  In fact oyster farms often become new habitats for sea ducks.  And a tidbit for any veggies or vegans, oysters are the most concentrated source of vitamin B12 and zinc, also have lots of iron.  So slurp on!


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: ethical vegetarians [Re: Cannashroom]
    #20170558 -

yup:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Can anyone argue that omnivorous diets are actually more ethical than vegetarian?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )		 Epigallo 7,928 126 01/09/09 02:37 PM
by DoseMeHomie
* Individual ethics Lion 2,148 17 03/25/08 05:06 PM
by publicenemy1
* Animal Empathy? RebelSteve33 890 2 02/12/03 11:37 AM
by adrug
* On the ethically-minded meat eater's "appeal to sentient plants" daytripper23 594 1 05/16/08 04:14 AM
by Sleepwalker
* Vegetarianism etc
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )		 demiu5 8,373 131 09/29/06 09:24 PM
by The_Hobbit
* Ethics of Hunting
( 1 2 all )		 Dfekt 1,756 20 11/16/05 12:57 PM
by redgreenvines
* Becoming a vegetarian
( 1 2 all )		 lysergicide 3,165 26 02/03/06 08:11 PM
by Ekstaza
* Morals vs. Ethics Sunny 510 4 08/14/10 12:07 PM
by Icelander

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,232 topic views. 1 members, 5 guests and 12 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 15 queries.