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Invisibletak
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Killing.
    #1989607 - 10/08/03 11:47 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard people say its not a sin to kill at wartime, to defend your country.

I just wanted a quick laugh at this. Okay, okay. Maybe its not completely your fault because you were brainwashed, and commanded to murder by someone else. They may take most of the karma, but people were still killed.

Gangs kill all the time over territory, I dont see what seperates them from the government. They are just smaller scale. Must you be an established member of the UN to be on gods "killing is ok" list?

Just incase no one knew, we live in a world where we are breeded to be killers. I know so many kids who want to be in the military when they grow up. They want to be the good guys, and that is what we are making it out to be.

I dont care what you are fighting for, aslong as you are fighting, you are not a good guy. Whoever can blow the shit out of the most innocent people is not the winner, the only way to win is when both sides win.

That usually means coming to terms with eachother and finding some sort of median. Unfortunately, the path we are choosing seems like it may just get us there, in the fact that all sides will end up with no life.

:x


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Killing. [Re: tak]
    #1989621 - 10/08/03 11:51 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Well said!

Here's to peace  :bong:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineJameZTheNewbie
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Re: Killing. [Re: trendal]
    #1989636 - 10/08/03 12:00 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

:stoned: i agree killing is killing no matter the reason


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Killing. [Re: tak]
    #1989642 - 10/08/03 12:02 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

root-ninja-tak said:
Must you be an established member of the UN to be on gods "killing is ok" list?




The UN is usually the one promoting peace and trying to work things out civily... heh, I know that wasn't what you were talking about, but I just had to throw this in here. :grin: Fuck George Bush!
Peace.


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Killing. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1989947 - 10/08/03 02:02 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Like George "Vic" Bush would say: "Killing is my business and business is good"
Anyway, apart of the UN helping people worldwide, the UN is also another wheel of the system, it imposes social and economical systems, the international drug law is an example of such attitude.

MAIA



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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Killing. [Re: MAIA]
    #1990081 - 10/08/03 03:00 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MAIA said:
Like George "Vic" Bush would say: "Killing is my business and business is good"
Anyway, apart of the UN helping people worldwide, the UN is also another wheel of the system, it imposes social and economical systems, the international drug law is an example of such attitude.
 




Yeah, but all I am saying is that it is a lot farther along than the United States or like the Middle East and all of these fucking nut countries.. Europe is feeling pretty fucking good right now. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Killing. [Re: tak]
    #1990298 - 10/08/03 04:06 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i agree with both sides winning being a necessity to a real victory. So long as one side was defeated, there remains the anger, and the will to overthrow the oppressive and war-waging empire. Eventually, this will turn into a war again. The only way to even hope for lengthened periods of peace, is to win with peace.

Of course, it doesn't look to me as though all Iraqis want peace, and neither do all Americans. However, we can apply our influence on a smaller scale, that will eventually be a huge avalanche. I don't think you can really propogate peace by preaching it though, only by practicing it, and letting others know you aren't afraid to step away from your ego (ego in this case being that which makes you feel the need to fight).

However, when somebody is going to hurt me, or those I love, I don't believe I should sit back. That would be fighting my urge to help and protect, an urge I consider important to listen to.


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/opinion
.sean


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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: tak]
    #1990532 - 10/08/03 05:44 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

commanded to murder by someone else.

killing enemy soldiers in time of war is not murder.

Just incase no one knew, we live in a world where we are breeded to be killers.

thanks for clarifying that. the word is "bred" by the way. how are we "bred" to be killers exactly?

I dont care what you are fighting for, aslong as you are fighting, you are not a good guy.

there is nothing wrong with fighting in self-defense or in defense of an innocent third party.

Whoever can blow the shit out of the most innocent people is not the winner

incorrect. you win by killing the people who want to kill you. killing people who would have done no harm to you helps you not one bit.

the only way to win is when both sides win.

if someone wants to kill you, and you want to live, how can both sides win???

That usually means coming to terms with eachother and finding some sort of median.

and when this proves to be impossible?


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Killing. [Re: tak]
    #1990782 - 10/08/03 07:16 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I dont care what you are fighting for, aslong as you are fighting, you are not a good guy. 




Last night at the Billy Idol show a pervert pulled out his dick and was trying to ruboff on MY wife.I grabbed him by the throat and threw him down and pinned him.Am I a bad guy? What if it were your wife or daughter?
Security then put ME in a choke hold and I spun and elbowed the guy in the ear canal as a second grabbed my arm I then spun and pulled to extend his arm and kicked him inthe armpit.
Am I a bad person for defending my wife and myself from others? Do you make the distinction between fighting to protect oneself or family from perversion and violence and animal predation?
Being a victim is a position I do not care to revisit.
Even the security guys I broke realized that I was in a self protective mode and admitted they should have NOT taken an attack stance with me.
Could I have killed someone? Indeed and without remorse.I live an isolated peaceful lifestyle.I only kill animals for food or to protect my own.I would do no less for my family against a human animal.Am I a thug? or am I an alpha male protecting my family? Fighting is an integral part of human emotion denying it creates stresses which manifest as social illnesses and irrational violence.That said I also think that devolving into physical violence is a tool only for self preservation.
This society is devoid of ritual violence other than voyueristic "sports" hence the squeamish reactions to real fighting.We only feel comfortable with ritualized controled violence done by professional "warriors/gladiators",while most wallow in their own frustrations.I have chosen to embrace my MALE dominant traits as valid.
I would also add I have not HAD to use force in almost 20 yrs( till last night :frown: ) usually I can reason through a situation.But reality is there are many unreasonable people who revel in physical violence,they MUST be answered in kind.It is the lack of peer consequence which fosters most of societies troublemakers.
Chivalry, Honor ,Respect ,self preservation these ARE things worth fighting for but only as a last resort against unreasonable situations.
WR:rasta:
 


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Invisiblebert
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Re: Killing. [Re: tak]
    #1990836 - 10/08/03 07:31 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

First of all, I don't think there's such thing as objective sin. Every imaginable act is justifiable given the situation. Killing, in my mind was perfectly acceptable during WWII in order to end the Holocaust. Pretty much any self defense situation is justified as whiterasta said.


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Offlinephynai
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Re: Killing. [Re: tak]
    #1990930 - 10/08/03 08:03 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Peace.

I pray on a near constant basis that we may come to some sort of conclusion about our violent conflict in the immediate future. Until this occurs I can only hope we may all have a safe place of residence. It is difficult for me to image the thoughts from a person of the middle east, who could be merely trying to live a life on this earth, possible sitting in sand at a camp or such in his/her homeland when upon walks an armored entourage of alien nationality bearing automatic weaponry. I would shit my pants, and I would run like hell possibly being shot in the process. It seems too much like spaceballs when they were combing the desert, sadly.

root-ninja-tak: I've heard people say its not a sin to kill at wartime, to defend your country.

With all judgments of sin aside, I belive defense of one's own country is crucial; in addition to, respect and adherence to boundary lines. Let the countrymen stay in his county while allowing aid through other means. A handful of people may be needed to travel abroad in respect to negotiation, but the numbers of people we send are staggering to my mind.


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Offlinemoogle
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Re: Killing. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1990955 - 10/08/03 08:16 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Ideally, killing another is only lawful/good/acceptable under act of necessity, when no other option remains to protect the life of yourself or those you guard -- you don't have to let some scumbag dispatch you from this world. However, practically, when the shit hits the fan, you don't have all the information at your disposal, and when the chaos erupts all you have to rely on are your instincts.

I believe the Dalai Lama is quoted to the following effect, "If someone is shooting at you and you have a gun, it is ok to shoot back." People who are conscripted (by deception or force) and thrown/lead into battle aren't evil murderers -- they are fighting for dear life. Those who abuse their power and influence to cause such massive tragedy carry the greatest amount of fault.

Whiterasta, what happened after you nailed those 3 security guys/perverts? My hopes for this world would warm slightly, if you weren't arrested over the incident. I am also bothered by the trend of people with the physical ability, but without the mettle, to defend theirselves or their own families.

Quote:

First of all, I don't think there's such thing as objective sin.




You may change your mind after someone rapes/murders a member of your family. I'm impressed if you can honestly tell me that such an act isn't an objective sin. Also, you can't say that there can be no objective sin because it's impossible to perceive objectively, because if you can't perceive objectively, how do you know that there are or are not objective sins?

Quote:

Every imaginable act is justifiable given the situation.



(?) Foreseeably you can create a possible scenario to justify the most heinous and depraved act, but this would not disqualify such an act from being an objective sin in those other scenarios, where no justification lies.


--------------------
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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Killing. [Re: phynai]
    #1990961 - 10/08/03 08:18 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

:lol: IN THE U.S. WE"RE TOUGHT HOW TO KILL MIDLLE-EASTERN MEN EVER SINCE WE WERE CHILDREN GOING TO SCHEEWWWL :lol: so... its a part of nature life cannot coinside with eachother 100% of the time. We should be honest with ourselfs and be aware that we are born in a country and are raised to be able too kill our enemy at any given time. Thats why Marijuana is illegal and why todays foods make 12 year old girls look desireable to middle aged R&B singers. Besides the point the goverments complain about guns and gangs on the street but they are out there with the same purpose that we are in the middle east. The gangbanger is defending is colors and Bush is defending Christianity, no diffrence. Its part of nature and if you dont wanna kill or be killed then move to Canada..... or something.

Technacly killing in the battlefield is not murder because its legal, murder is the lawful term, but its still killin'


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OfflineGeeno
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Re: Killing. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1991042 - 10/08/03 08:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Killin people sucks but you have to do what you have to do.

Edit: When it comes to fighting I think its just kinda fun. I dont start fights with people but I like to fight my friends.


Edited by Geeno (10/08/03 08:51 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: moogle]
    #1991056 - 10/08/03 08:54 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

nothing is really right or wrong. we're just self-replicating, intelligent bundles of chemicals on the surface of some rock hurtling through space- what we do, or don't do, really doesn't matter in the end. right and wrong are not rules of the universe; they are just something we as humans invent. "right" and "wrong" are social expedients we develop as humans for our group existance. if there were no people, there would be no such thing as "wrong". nor would there be if there were one person on the planet, or two hopelessly seperatad by distance. the idea of things that are "wrong" is something we invent to govern human interactions in groups (2 or more)...

why are groups significant? what is something special about groups of people that does not apply to lone individuals?

one major issue is that of free will. we are all intelligent creatures and we make decisions we believe to be in our best interests. if there were only one human being in the world, or more but no group interaction, this free will, this process by which we decide what's good for us and act on it, would be completely unhindered. because humans have the ability to impose their own will upon eachother, human interaction brings a threat to free will. this can only occur in groups, and it can only be accomplished through force or by fraud.

without force or fraud, an individual is left with complete freedom of will, as he should be, and as he would be if human interaction did not occur.

force however, does exist. there are individuals in the world that will break the peace and seek to impose their will upon others. there are those that would make their interactions with other human beings forcefully destructive of free will.

once force is in motion, the only way to halt it may be through opposing force. if you are to preserve your own free will, or that of others, in the face of force, you sometimes must use force. when force is used in this way, there is nothing improper about it, even if it necessarily entails killing the initiator of the coercion.

*what i think right now*


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Killing. [Re: moogle]
    #1991178 - 10/08/03 09:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Whiterasta, what happened after you nailed those 3 security guys/perverts 



I nailed the pervert and had him pinned when the first guard tried a sleeper hold on me.I did not have a clue who had me so I launched from a one knee crouch while spinning back my elbow into his ear canal that arm was imediatly grabbed by another guard so I had NO time to decipher who was on me so I leaned with the pull then jeked back hard to extend the arm and launched a toe kick to the armpit.
This bought me space to look for my wife and see who was around me.It was about then a couple other dudes from across the building showed up seaching for perv boy and the growing group of guards coming to kick my ass good saw perv boys half hard dick hanging out,while my wife is screaming PERVERT! at full volume.They had us all shuffled off in a minute and once witnesses and the wife said what happened I was not charged( it wouldn't have stood up)but am on probationary status at the venue(BFD!)
You know what capped it off? My wife was standing next to a young teen(13-14?) and the perv was kinda rubbing between them both.And this bitch(the mom) had the gall to yell at my wife for pushing,protectivly, the young girl away from what she turned and saw this creep doing,EVEN AFTER SHE SAW HIM WITH HIS DICK HANGING OUT AND KNEW HE WAS GETTING HIS ROCKS OF RUBBINGOFF ON MY WIFE AND HER DAUGHTER,She was SOOO upset by the "violence".This idiot bitch would rather wash Mr. cream jeans stains off her little girl?.
I am sorry about hurting the security people but putting a sleeper hold on someone is a fight or flight response from me and I hope he gets his balance and hearing back,the other guy should be OK but may need some surgery on his shoulder it looks like I did not crush any blood vessels or nerves in his pit just dislocated it.Perv boy has a concussion,a severely bruised larynx and two broken ribs where I pinned him in the diaphram with my knee.
If I sound somewhat proud,I am I am a 45 yr old man who has had a triple bypass(myocarditis and a fucked up angiogram= heart attack)and have worked the 48% of a heart I was left with till I can acheive 108% cap on a treadmill test and have discovered Psilocybin controls the atrial fibrillation I was left with.After what I have been through,the months of weakness and fear as I recovered,It is gratifying to hold my own in a tight spot,to NOT feel helpless and afraid(and not seize up or weaken and fail).To stand up for my wife and this young teen girl(in spite of her unbelievable "mother") is what MEN were created for,otherwise the weakest would fall prey to the stronger less compassionate "manimals" who share the earth with us
WR:rasta: 


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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: whiterasta]
    #1991210 - 10/08/03 09:47 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

there is a BIG difference between ego confrontations on the street that leave someone with some broken teeth and the mechanized war machine which hurls thousands of bodies into a battlefield for twisted ideals of PEACE and country.


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InvisibleTheMimeKing
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Re: Killing. [Re: tak]
    #1991820 - 10/09/03 01:52 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Killing is part of what humans are. War can't be stopped as long as more than one human exists on this earth. We can talk about the justification of it all day long, but the fact is, its going to happen all the same. There's no right or wrong in war.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Killing. [Re: TheMimeKing]
    #1991945 - 10/09/03 02:32 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, a drug deal gone wrong down the corner is a tragedy, a wepons deal gone wrong in the White House is something to wave your flag with pride for!!! :smile: 


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Killing. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1992411 - 10/09/03 07:29 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Survival is the first thing that we concern ourselves with. If our survival is threatened, we need to do whatever is necessary to protect our survival, and not one step further than that.
Peace.


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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: TheMimeKing]
    #1992445 - 10/09/03 08:00 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Killing is part of what humans are.

its not part of me... is it part of you? how many people have you killed?

i'll say that violence is an inherit trait that we posses based on our basic needs for survival, but equated this with the need for war is ridiculous.

We can talk about the justification of it all day long, but the fact is, its going to happen all the same.

pitiful. why try to change ANYTHING.. then? just accept the most horrible aspect of humanity and be done with it? what a cop out.

There's no right or wrong in war.

after already establishing that its not worth thinking about, how did you come to such a profound moral decision?





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Invisibletak
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #1992647 - 10/09/03 10:00 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

:sigh:



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #1992848 - 10/09/03 11:40 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LoOnEr said:
pitiful. why try to change  ANYTHING.. then? just accept the most horrible aspect of humanity and be done with it? what a cop out.

...after already establishing that its not worth thinking about, how did you come to such a profound moral decision?
 




Duh, because George Bush told me to think all of that. By the way, what the hell is a "moral" decision? Is that one of those fancy new words? :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Killing. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1992935 - 10/09/03 12:40 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

What would happen if we voted 'Michael Moore' into office?.....Hmmm.....


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Killing. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1992951 - 10/09/03 12:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
What would happen if we voted 'Michael Moore' into office?.....Hmmm..... 




Who the HELL is that? :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Killing. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1992960 - 10/09/03 12:51 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Killing. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1993000 - 10/09/03 01:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Ahh... he's my man!! I have always thought that perhaps Bin Ladin was employed by Bush to carry out the terrorist attacks, and then was offered exile and seclusion wherever the hell he is.. same with Saddam.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1993398 - 10/09/03 03:09 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

michael moore is a fucking idiot. he is a scumbag and liar.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #1993442 - 10/09/03 03:16 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
michael moore is a fucking idiot. he is a scumbag and liar. 




George Bush is a fucking idiot. he is a scumbag and liar.

Hey, as long as we are starting to get short and sweet.....
:grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibletak
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Re: Killing. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1993551 - 10/09/03 03:43 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Go back to bed america, your government is under control.


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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Offlinedomite
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Re: Killing. [Re: tak]
    #1993646 - 10/09/03 04:08 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

"how many people have you killed"

none. How many animals have been killed that you ate part of? how many plants were killed to feed the animal, and to feed you? Death is part of life. Accept it. Morality based on pity is rediculous.


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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: domite]
    #1994062 - 10/09/03 05:50 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

none. How many animals have been killed that you ate part of? how many plants were killed to feed the animal, and to feed you? Death is part of life. Accept it.

so killing animals for food is the same as killing my neighbor because i hate him?

CHECK- death is part of life

Morality based on pity is rediculous

how about basing morality on the value of human life?



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Offlinecatalyst777
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #1994123 - 10/09/03 06:11 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

mushmaster said: "nothing is really right or wrong. we're just self-replicating, intelligent bundles of chemicals on the surface of some rock hurtling through space- what we do, or don't do, really doesn't matter in the end. right and wrong are not rules of the universe; they are just something we as humans invent. "right" and "wrong" are social expedients we develop as humans for our group existance. if there were no people, there would be no such thing as "wrong". nor would there be if there were one person on the planet, or two hopelessly seperatad by distance. the idea of things that are "wrong" is something we invent to govern human interactions in groups (2 or more)..."

Are you absolutely sure about that? Are you omniscient? What else told you this except for your own reason?

This premise is almost laughable.

If a little baby is mangled by another person, is this wrong?

Many seem to think religious zealots are dangerous. But how about people who postulate inane drivel such as this?

Dangerous minds...


--------------------
Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored.

Aldous Huxley


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #1994130 - 10/09/03 06:14 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Violence is a part of what humans are. So is laziness. So this probably means we have to sit on our asses all day, getting up only for food, drink and the occasional manslaughter? Please, even I won't claim that to be true.

War is morally wrong because and it takes away the one thing each human being has, regardless of race, gender, mutations, and/or talents: life itself. It's the most precious gift any of us will ever receive in our corporeal form, and no one has the right to take away anyone else's existance in any circumstance other than you being left on a this planet with only other humans to eat. And still, in that situation I'd personally prefer dying to eating a fellow man.

Pity, a component of empathy, is what is missing in this world. If society stressed empathy more than repression and labelism, the world would greatly improve.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinedawn of a new day
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Registered: 01/16/03
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #1994164 - 10/09/03 06:24 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

just a thought here. would it be worse to kill a neighbor for food or an animal because you hate it?

what makes a human life more valuable than an animal's life? aren't humans animals too?



--------------------
"Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit . . . unnatural?"
- Bill Hicks


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Offlinecatalyst777
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Re: Killing. [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1994176 - 10/09/03 06:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

amen, Alan!

I believe murder and rape is wrong, because you are taking something away that cannot be fixed or replaced. People who do such things are infringing on the sacred right of another person.


--------------------
Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored.

Aldous Huxley


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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: catalyst777]
    #1998021 - 10/10/03 06:27 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Are you absolutely sure about that? Are you omniscient? What else told you this except for your own reason?

as far as i'm aware, the statement is consistant with currect scientific observations... if i'm incorrect about that, or i'm using faulty reasoning, tell me about it...

This premise is almost laughable.

instead of just saying that ^.

If a little baby is mangled by another person, is this wrong?

what does it mean for something to be "wrong"? where does "wrong" come from?


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Killing. [Re: tak]
    #1998660 - 10/10/03 10:46 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Evolution bread us to be killers. Millions of years of it. Just go look at nature to see this. Territorial battles ending in death are common and no the exeption.

I'm not justifying what governments do or don't do. I just talking about killing in general. Peopl;e who are not willing to give their life or take another to protect the people that they love are just selfish IMO. Would you not kill or be killed to save the life of your daughter or wife.



--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1999160 - 10/11/03 03:02 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not justifying what governments do or don't do. I just talking about killing in general. Peopl;e who are not willing to give their life or take another to protect the people that they love are just selfish IMO. Would you not kill or be killed to save the life of your daughter or wife.

what does love have to do with the right to kill? an irrational emotion used to justify the need to kill. i love the logic of humanity!


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #1999180 - 10/11/03 03:09 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

there is nothing wrong with killing. the problem is murder. most people dont understand the difference. for instance, the bible doesnt say "thou shalt not kill." in fact, killing has been advocated throughout history for certain things.


Ps- the bible says "thou shalt not do murder." kill was a misinterpretation in the first bibles of the 1500's


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #2016370 - 10/16/03 11:10 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LoOnEr said:
what does love have to do with the right to kill? an irrational emotion used to justify the need to kill. i love the logic of humanity!




Just because you are speaking from an pacifist position does not mean you are more enlightened than anyone else. The circle of life passes through all of lifes experiences. You may be on a part of the circle that embodies utopia but you are only understanding that part of the human experience. To truly appreciate life you need to detach yourself from any one part of the circle and understand it as a whole. The good, the bad, and the ugly are all part of the experience as a whole. The loss of any of its parts lessens the whole. without pain, pleasure has little meaning and without death, life is meaningless as well.
I use a circle here because I believe that the path of enlightenment leads to where you stared but from a different "enlightened" perspective. When I think about the experience of life I usually use a mosaic for the analogy. Sorted colors of extremes arranged of the outside (to exist in any one field would be monotony) and a chaotic mix in the center where the full experience exists. But we are interested in understanding so once again detach and see or more accurately "feel" the entirety of the mosaic.
Where ever you go, there you are, and that is that.

Anyway I just wanted to say that some things are worth fighting for.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2016427 - 10/16/03 11:38 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)



you boys talkin' 'bout killin'? whatchall know about killin'

i'd like to hear it potheads....



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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2016514 - 10/16/03 11:59 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Just because you are speaking from an pacifist position does not mean you are more enlightened than anyone else.

i wasn't talking about enlightenment... i fail to see where this comes into play with the taking of human life.

you made a correlation between pain and happiness and the need for both, are you saying that pain in the form of killing is needed?

The loss of any of its parts lessens the whole. without pain, pleasure has little meaning and without death, life is meaningless as well.

do you need to think of a dead soldier holding his guts before you can enjoy a bowl of ice cream?

do you need to remember the dead hooker in the back alley before you can make love to your girlfriend?

pain/pleasure is part of the human experience and should be explored without the need to kill another human being.


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Offlinemntlfngrs
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #2019413 - 10/18/03 01:16 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

might need to see the pain and horror of death and war before you can appreciate peace and prosperity.


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Killing. [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #2022328 - 10/19/03 10:53 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

For me it's karma. I'm not going to kill anyone else, because I do not wish to be killed. I believe that we as human biengs sometimes desire to do things that we would not wan't done to us, and this is why the "golden rule" comes in handy.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: Killing. [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2022340 - 10/19/03 11:00 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

When you put on a uniform and pick up a gun you are fair game. I dont care if you got drafted or if you are a merc, when you pick up that rifle you are my enemy and i must hunt you down and destroy you.


--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Killing. [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #2023332 - 10/19/03 07:42 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

"Peace" has two commonly accepted meanings. One meaning is when mankind is not currently involved in a war, or other conflicts. The other, however, is the spiritual one where the inner being is in a state of harmony and contentment with self, surroundings, and others. The first meaning is not true peace, only the second one is. I don't give much of a fuck about the first "peace", because the second one makes wars obsolete, while the first "peace" is simply waiting for the next war to happen.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2023437 - 10/19/03 08:29 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

approaching peace through "inner peace" is not solving the problem.

the last thing we need to do is be on a crusade to how one should be "spiritual" in respect to what you say..

state of harmony and contentment with self, surroundings, and others.

sorry, but thats dogma.

we need to realize the fallacy of what we as humans see as just and right.

ridding ourselves of all pre-conceived notions of when it is "right" to kill another human being is the first step.

destroying every accepted thought that was fed to us since infancy.

ok here i am... a human being with a conscious, born an a mysterious planet located somewhere in the universe.

start from there and start rationalizing every step to the point where humans have united in mass armies pitted against eachother. we fight for god, country, pride, and peace (lol)

justify your god to me please.
justify your country to me please.
justify pride for me.
justify peace through WAR for me :smile:

there are a lot more reasons out there i forgot. i say fuck them all.

lets go back to being humans on a mysterious planet, somewhere in the galaxy.




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Offlinedastats
The Truth is Blinding
Registered: 09/07/03
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Re: Killing. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2023460 - 10/19/03 08:40 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I read the furst page of threads. My opinion is, American policy wants to keep itself as the superpower. Their attacks on iraq and afganistan are get a foot hold in Europe, because the EU will be the next superpower and the US dun want dat to happen. This whole war thing is a big croke of shit. Americans(government) killing fer money and oil. Oh, and were Gods Soldiers, God has us here to get rid if the bad guy. the US is the bad guy. All fer a foot hold. And as for killing, who the hell are you killing over there. People who fight with pitch forks, and shovels. FAWK THAT!!!! Gimme a god damn break, any of you who say that. Who is to say who should die. I find it hard to believe anyone would side with them. Bullies, gangsters, thats whut the US gov is.
The US is a very young country, and its about to fall, just like the romans.
Its too bad Canada has to suffer beside them fer their cildish games.

Peace all

Jater


--------------------
Peace all.

Jater


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OfflineLightningfractal
Nutcase

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #2023477 - 10/19/03 08:52 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

approaching peace through "inner peace" is not solving the problem.




If inner peace were achieved in sufficient numbers, perhaps the thing could snowball out of the government's control, and the world could be reshapen.

Quote:

state of harmony and contentment with self, surroundings, and others.

sorry, but thats dogma.




No, that's just my way of describing my own idea of what inner peace is.

I agree with the rest of what you said. We should all stop internalizing every piece of crap we are fed by this "system" thingy(whatever that is), and re-create ourselves. Mankind could do MUCH better, even if we could not create a total paradise, we could make things much, much more sensible than the current "government" has done. (polluted our existance)





--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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Anonymous

Re: Killing. [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2023481 - 10/19/03 08:54 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

SPEAKING OF WAR!!.... do you perhaps play war3?


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OfflineLightningfractal
Nutcase

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
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Re: Killing. [Re: ]
    #2023493 - 10/19/03 08:59 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

oh did you see in my title "blizzard gamer"? absolutely my friend, feel like playing now? I'll PM you.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: Killing. [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #2024520 - 10/20/03 03:41 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jenine Giraffalo said:
i
i have killed
i have killed myself
i...cannot change this
i
i must seek buddah
i must seek christ





hehehehe, i hope that's how it goes.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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