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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment'
    #16450051 -

when D.T. Suzuki was asked what is it like to be enlightened, he said it's just like ordinary everyday experience except about two inches off the ground.

because what is altered is not the way your senses perceive,
what is altered is what you think about.
your definitions of what you see.
your evaluation of it.


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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: keeponrockin]
    #16450074 -

Strange with the Internet these enlightened people don,t receive the recognition they would attract if they had something to offer.

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: Jaegar]
    #16450270 -

i see a lot of people that believe that 'enlightenment' is an extraordinary thing that happens after you wasted enough time acting like some kind of an ascetic jesus

i see it as a much simpler and down-to-earth thing, that's what the OP is about.

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: keeponrockin]
    #16450631 -

keeponrockin said:
when D.T. Suzuki was asked what is it like to be enlightened, he said it's just like ordinary everyday experience except about two inches off the ground.

because what is altered is not the way your senses perceive,
what is altered is what you think about.
your definitions of what you see.
your evaluation of it.



Now this I can relate to as a realistic goal. :thumbup:  Not that it is that much easier.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: Icelander] * 2
    #16450783 -

The greatest of efforts for the smallest of prizes: absolutely nothing. :lol:

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: keeponrockin] * 2
    #16452028 -

“Enlightenment is a destructive process. It
has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier. Enlightenment is the
crumbling away of untruth. It's seeing
through the facade of pretence. It's the
complete eradication of everything we
imagined to be true.”

― Adyashanti

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: Middleman]
    #16452180 -

that's a cool quote.

i like to think of it as destructive only in the beginning of the process


"before we study Zen, the mountains are mountains and the rivers are rivers.
while we are studying Zen, the mountains are no longer mountains and the rivers are no longer rivers.
but then, when our study of Zen is completed, the mountains are once again mountains and the rivers once again rivers."


--------------------

Edited by keeponrockin (06/28/12 04:48 PM)

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: keeponrockin]
    #16452290 -

keeponrockin said:
when D.T. Suzuki was asked what is it like to be enlightened, he said it's just like ordinary everyday experience except about two inches off the ground.

because what is altered is not the way your senses perceive,
what is altered is what you think about.
your definitions of what you see.
your evaluation of it.


I like it, but I don't like how he is being cryptic about it. Yeah, it's supposed to alter the way you perceive information from your sense, but how does it change? What is the main difference? Well, in my opinion the main difference between an enlightened person and a non- enlightened person is that perception is an accurate mental representation of the world we are sensing. Also, what someone thinks about the cause and future of the impression must also fit what happened or will happen, but for that he would need proof or somehow be able to directly sense the cause and effect, instead of making inferences from the impression. In a way enlightenment is limited to the here and now of consciousness (however accurate that may be). Science attempts to enlighten people about cause and effect, but is in the majority only able to teach correlation. Philosophy, spirituality and mysticism goes even further away from my definition of enlightenment, since it is based entirely on speculation, otherwise it is science (although science has a lot of speculation too).


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: Middleman]
    #16452398 -

Mr. Middle said:
“Enlightenment is a destructive process. It
has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier. Enlightenment is the
crumbling away of untruth. It's seeing
through the facade of pretence. It's the
complete eradication of everything we
imagined to be true.”

― Adyashanti



Then I am closer than I thought.  Almost my beliefs have crumbled in these last years.  My biggest problem (or maybe disguised blessing) is that I can't seem to find good shields to my impermanence anxiety anymore.

I'm in an interesting place.  I could say I have more death anxiety freak out than ever due to the fact that I can't seem to ever get it out of mind anymore and yet I'm the most casual and accepting I've ever been with it.  Some process is in the works and I'll just have to see how it plays out.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: keeponrockin]
    #16452430 -

keeponrockin said:
i see a lot of people that believe that 'enlightenment' is an extraordinary thing that happens after you wasted enough time acting like some kind of an ascetic jesus

i see it as a much simpler and down-to-earth thing, that's what the OP is about.


Explain how you can 'see' something beyond the scope of your experience.


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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16452463 -

You imagine it.  Isn't that how we have gotten every new invention and idea throughout our history?


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16452472 -

i have this weird thing that i actually talk to people and ask about them

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: keeponrockin]
    #16452651 -

keeponrockin said:
i have this weird thing that i actually talk to people and ask about them


Yet the allegedly enlightened say it cannot be described with words. :rolleyes:


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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #16452658 -

HagbardCeline said:
You imagine it.  Isn't that how we have gotten every new invention and idea throughout our history?


One cannot imagine a new mind state. It is impossible. All the reading on psychedelics and still every newbie who takes a significant dose is totally surprised.


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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16452669 -

keeponrockin said:
i see a lot of people that believe that 'enlightenment' is an extraordinary thing that happens after you wasted enough time acting like some kind of an ascetic jesus


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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: keeponrockin]
    #16452689 -

As there is not a single metric for enlightenment, it is not possible to say if it is real or imaginary; although I would tend towards imaginary as every ohter mystic claim that can be tested falls flat.


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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16452713 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
HagbardCeline said:
You imagine it.  Isn't that how we have gotten every new invention and idea throughout our history?


One cannot imagine a new mind state. It is impossible. All the reading on psychedelics and still every newbie who takes a significant dose is totally surprised.


I'm imagining one right now... oh wait... here comes a new one and a new one and a new one and a new one... i'm imaging you're getting pretty tired of my repetition by now...


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16452719 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
As there is not a single metric for enlightenment, it is not possible to say if it is real or imaginary; although I would tend towards imaginary as every ohter mystic claim that can be tested falls flat.


right but that's what the OP says. that the so called 'enlightenment' is nothing but a shift in the way you evaluate or think about things.

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: keeponrockin]
    #16458109 -

I heard something about enlightenment being like thick clouds in front of the sun, its already there we just have to uncover it. Maybe being enlightened is like being high off psychedelics all the time.

It would be easier if an enlightened person writes in this forum


--------------------

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Re: A non-mystic perspective of 'enlightenment' [Re: HungryHipp07]
    #16458225 -

I do all the time, but it goes right over your head.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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