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InvisibleJared
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Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 8,783
Good. Bad. Perspective.
    #440581 - 10/29/01 01:39 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Really, there is no such thing as "good" or "evil" everything is a matter of perspective. For instance, the gophers that eat the famers crop and cause him to lose his land and house. From our majorital view as humans this is bad, however, to the gophers it is good because they are able to survive by eating that food. Or in a war, both sides belives the other to be the absolute evil, when that cannot be. So evil is totally a matter of perspective, like two teams.. red and blue. One is not better then the other, if you think something is evil then you are not on it's "team" if you think it's good then you are on it's "team".. like the war on drugs.. anyways, don't reply if you don't want to. I just felt like rambling a little here.. Thank you for your time.


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OfflineNextGenHippie
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Registered: 03/30/01
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Jared]
    #440683 - 10/29/01 02:58 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

hehe... StarWars agrees with you.

'Many of the truths that we hold self evident depend greatly on our own point of view'
-Obi Wan Kenobi


--------------------
[pot]Think left and think right[pot]
[pot]and think low and think high[pot]
[pot]Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try[pot]
-Dr. Seuss


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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Jared]
    #440956 - 10/29/01 07:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

My sentiments exactly. Its all one in the same.


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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Jared]
    #441139 - 10/29/01 09:53 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

What interests me is what is there if you go beyound the dualism of the human point of view? At one end there is the merging of everything. From two to one. But what about the other way?
Is it possible to imagine three "major forces" in the universe on the same scale as good and evil, light and dark?

BTW, have you shaved your head? :)


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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OfflineAshaman
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Jared]
    #441170 - 10/29/01 10:14 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

usually (and as it should be) what is against one's goals is bad and what furthers them is good. no matter what they may be.


Whew thats my first post in awhile...


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InvisibleJared
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Timeleech]
    #441813 - 10/30/01 01:29 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)



Sorry for the crappy drawing.. but is this what you mean..? I've seen this tri-yingyangish symbol before in.. I beleive inuit culture.. I could be wrong though.. I have no idea what it really means either..

Jonny, yea.


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InvisibleIn(di)go
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Posts: 8,150
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: NextGenHippie]
    #441891 - 10/30/01 02:29 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

did you know that in the end of the star wars book, the last jedi lands on earth and founds buddhism?

oh! and jared... did you cut your hair?


--------------------


Edited by Lozt Soul (10/30/01 02:30 PM)


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OfflineHARRY
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Registered: 09/23/01
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Jared]
    #442014 - 10/30/01 04:15 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

most people imagine good & bad to be on the opposite side of a linear scale: good is the direct opposite of bad. In reality the scale isn't linear, it's like an incomplete circle (imagine one of those hoop earings) both good and bad are next to each other but yet opposite to each other. Once you, in your own mind can join this circle you attain a wisdom, where good and bad have no real value but are just statements directed by human society.


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InvisibleJared
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: In(di)go]
    #442379 - 10/30/01 09:37 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Never read any starwars books.. that Lucas guy seems like he must have some pretty smart stuff floating around in his head =)

Lol, yea I cut my own hair and then shaved it all... but I couldn't quite get teh back.. so I had a patch of hair ont eh very back of my head for half a day until a friend shaved teh rest off for me... =P Took 4 razor blades to do it! Anyways, Hair is growing back now.... its like 1mm long =)

Harry, I know what you mean... it kind of hits you.. everything you've ever beleived in doesn't really matter so much as you thought it did.. you can look at everything like a grain of sand and from any which way youd like.. its weird.. real weird. (but not that weird, just this weird.)


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OfflineNextGenHippie
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Registered: 03/30/01
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: In(di)go]
    #442436 - 10/30/01 10:35 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Really? gotta read that...


--------------------
[pot]Think left and think right[pot]
[pot]and think low and think high[pot]
[pot]Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try[pot]
-Dr. Seuss


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Jared]
    #442760 - 10/31/01 04:13 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

That could be a representation of what I mean, yes. Iv'e seen it before too, but as a company logo I think, and various other places.
But what do the different sections mean? Perhaps something along the line of a holy trinity, or body, mind & soul. But what about a quadruple- or octa- or hundred-ying yang? Any idea what kind of values such a system could have instead of good and evil?
I think such a system would be able to help us get away from dualism, and maybe rid us of the concept of good and evil.


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Jared]
    #442858 - 10/31/01 09:07 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

check out _the two hands of god: myths of polarity_ by alan watts
& www.alanwatts.com


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinewintertime
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Timeleech]
    #444250 - 11/01/01 03:27 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think it doesn't really matter how many yin-yang sections there are, it's just meant to symbolise balance.. i don't know but recently the idea of balance and circularity has been making much more sense to me, especially in nature.

on the good and bad topic, my understanding there are three basic belief systems: moral cultural relativism (meaning that even though cultures can believe in opposite things they can both me right), absolute morality (belief in a god or any external beliefs that govern all things) and nihilism/existialism/idon'tknowwhatelsetocallit where you live by your own rules (smaller scale of moral cultural relativism).

any comments?


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InvisibleIshmael
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Registered: 10/29/99
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: wintertime]
    #444282 - 11/01/01 03:55 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Actually, native traditions of all sorts have multiple-circle forms like the tri-yin-yang illustrated above. The most common perspective/variation that I've come across (perhaps because it is most easily understood) is that of a balanced four point circle. It's a very common symbol which is not limited to Native American tribes (the so-called, Medicine Wheel) but also on the other side of the Atlantic and beyond (Druidism claims the four-pointed balanced circle as a holy symbol for example). In each case, each 'point' on the circle represents a different perspective on life and a different quality of experience. In the medicine wheel, this is also color coded and associated with directional headings. South is red, West is Black, North is White and East is Yellow. South is associated with the quality of innocence. North with the quality of Wisdom. West with the quality of insight. East with the quality of enlightenment. [Oddly enough (or perhaps not) this seperation is also the method and wording used to describe the four main schools of yoga discipline.] In the mythology associated with the Medicine Wheel, a person starts out life at a given point on the wheel (though some can have multiple points to start with). The goal is to incorporate all of the points into yourself through the abstraction of 'seeking' truth...and thus understand the foundations by which all people see - to understand all perspective. Tribes on the American Continent built their entire societies around these concepts. In the teachings, the longer you walk the circle, the more perspectives you will eventually gain. Not just a dualistic mentality of black and white, but beyond into further realms which inherently require greater levels of self-reflection.

Perhaps this sounds familiar to some of you: 'Black then white are all I see, in my infancy...red and yellow then came to be...reaching out to me...lets me see'.

Not suprisingly, the native American Medicine wheel is also associated with the concept of the mystic spiral (constant movement around the circle producing an interative process that if taken abstractly creates a rather pretty spiral - eternal growth).

There is no right and wrong, only popular opinion. And as for the concept of blue and red teams...Alan Watts put a clearer definition into place...In-groups and Out-Groups. In-groups are collective bands of people unified under ideal. Out-groups are everyone else in relation to the In-group. From the perspective of any given In-group, the ways of the Out-Group are inherently queer and distasteful. Good is the established order of the In-Group. Bad is any idea, concept or behavior that threatens the stability of the In-Group. Of course, new ideas do sometimes arise spontaneously from /within/ an In-Group, though the New Ideas are always very quickly identified and demonized by those attempting to maintain stability (or the illusion of it).

Ish



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OfflineTraveller
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Registered: 04/13/01
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Ishmael]
    #444294 - 11/01/01 04:16 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

where have you heard the different schools of yoga described in this way?


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InvisibleIshmael
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Registered: 10/29/99
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Traveller]
    #446050 - 11/03/01 10:02 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Go to Erowid.org and look for Spiritual Practices...underneath Yoga you'll find a heading. This is not where I heard it described originally, it was from a friend who taught Yoga...but this will probably be more accessable for everyone.

Ish


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OfflineD_Tox
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Registered: 10/31/01
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Ishmael]
    #446971 - 11/04/01 08:32 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

there are as many beliefs as there are people


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-----------------------
D_Tox

to understand other people….to be aware
to understand animals….to be a decent person
to understand plants….. to be a refined individual
to understand the mushroom…to be enlightened


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OfflineHARRY
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Registered: 09/23/01
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: Timeleech]
    #466587 - 11/22/01 01:58 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I think that seperating things into good/bad, black/white masculine/feminine undermines human's ability to think 'multidimentionally' for example when you think in terms of good and bad, you think in two dimentions. Some people can think in many dimensions for example if you put neutral in between good and bad. that would be thinking in three dimensions, most people think in at least three dimensions also people can easily add dimensions to this formula: Good, Ok, Not Bad, Neutral, Not So Good, Bad, Terrible. I call this grey logic, i.e. you dont think in balck and white logic but can create shades of grey in between Black and White.

Although thinking in gray logic is an improvement on black and white logic (or two dimensional logic), there is still the need for the opposites: good and bad, but the most difficult, abstract way to think is in one dimension. Because you only have lets say neutral, you can be more objective, you can think of things in a non-linear manner, greatly improving your capacity for thought and comunication.

The only time i manage to think in one dimension is either while tripping, meditating or dreaming. I definately think that the next step for human evolution is to learn how to think and comunicate in one dimension. If you think about it, the lack of good and bad would create a world without disagreement, wars and suffering, but also no excitement, enjoyment or hapiness.


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Good. Bad. Perspective. [Re: HARRY]
    #624659 - 05/02/02 07:28 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I heard of a myth in which man was given the gift of knowledge, of right and wrong, and good and evil.

Joshua


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Amazon Shop for: Scales

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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