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InvisibleSclorch
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First Americans (it's PC for Injuns)
    #931837 - 10/04/02 02:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I've read alot of FA folktales/stories/whatever.  From these readings I've sort of picked up on something that I wasn't sure about.  Although, on the surface, it seems that these tales are laced with the concept of polytheism (coyotes, badgers, mole men, beavers, eagles, etc.)... I can't help but think that they weren't polytheistic.

Which brings me to my questions...

1. Did the FA have a different concept of God(s)?
2. Could they have been atheists?

Discuss.  :wink: 


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Sclorch]
    #931881 - 10/04/02 02:42 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

They certainly were not atheists. They believed in the Great Spirit which I take to be a supreme being above the mole men and badgers and such.

Maybe we're generalising here. We shouldn't group all Native Americans in one group. They had a diversity of beliefs. I'm sure some of them were atheists.
But most were not.


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Offlineakyouser_oner
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Sclorch]
    #931898 - 10/04/02 02:47 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

1) different than what?

2) i don't think they believed in the concept of the traditional xtian god, but they recognised the different aspects of the great spirit in all things. for instance, the bear would represent one aspect (say, bravery for instance not fact), and the eagle another. i think that in some respects they were atheist, but not the traditional "there is no god, just us" manner.

now that i've thought more about it, and the more i write, the more i realise i'm not qualified to discuss this. i'm talking out of my ass! (maybe it was the vicodin :crazy:)


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-akyouser.oner
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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: infidelGOD]
    #932177 - 10/04/02 04:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe we're generalising here. We shouldn't group all Native Americans in one group.

This is true. I figured most in here would understand this... you did. There were so many tribes that it would be almost impossible for me to remember them all. However, from my readings, I've noticed that there was a general, homogenous formula to these stories. I get this feeling like these stories are more about teaching a moral or behavioral code rather than a metaphysical belief system. I mean, they definitely had rituals... but it seems like they KNEW these rituals were only a means to pass on knowledge (rather than dogmatic oppression of thought).

This is merely a thought... I was just wondering what others (who I assume have read many FA stories) thought.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Sclorch]
    #932352 - 10/04/02 05:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The only Native American culture I have a thourough knowledge of is the Hopi.
So...

1. Did the FA have a different concept of God(s)?

The Hopi have a myth of Creation, believing that the emergence of Earth and man came from a single source.. Though their view is very different from the Christian view of Creation. As with most cultures they have their story to go along with their belief. They believe there are consequences to every action... that there is a distinct difference between the balance of nature on Earth and human nature on Earth. And that Earth is to be respected at all times or the world may be destroyed by the Creator due to lack of respect. According to their myth this has already happened three times in the past.

2. Could they have been atheists?

No, I don't think so. They believe in a higher power ("God"), a soul, and an afterlife.


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Edited by Shroomism (10/04/02 05:14 PM)


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Shroomism]
    #932577 - 10/04/02 06:34 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

In most native beliefs there is the Great Creator, but he is not necessarily always "good"..he is alo known as a "trickster" and enjoys playing pranks on us. There is also lesser spirits...ie...spirit of the Bear, Wolf, etc...

I actually had this conversation recently with a Native friend of mine..


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Rono]
    #932672 - 10/04/02 07:34 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm... it was just a passing thought... yeah, I forgot about that whole Great Spirit thing (but the Great Spirit thing isn't that pronounced throughout most of the stories I've read).


In most native beliefs there is the Great Creator, but he is not necessarily always "good"..he is alo known as a "trickster" and enjoys playing pranks on us.

This is interesting... a duality within one being. God and Satan are two sides to the same being. I wonder how that affected FA societies/psychologies.


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Offlinechemkid
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Sclorch]
    #933155 - 10/04/02 11:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I have very little knowledge on the American Indians but what I get from talking to some of my Native friends is that they don't necessarily believe in "GOD" but rather one spirit. We and all other living animals and plants, wind, water etc. are all one thing. This is why respecting the earth was so paramount. Disrespecting it was to disrespect yourself in a sense.

While I definitely don't hold the same beliefs as the Indians, I feel they hit the nail on the head as far as how to live life and treat others and the environment.


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Offlinechemkid
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: chemkid]
    #933218 - 10/04/02 11:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

P.S. I nominate Sclorch for a proper banning. The word Injun is totally offensive and this thread should be locked immediately. Sorry Sclorch but you gotta go.

Man that was scary......I thought I was a mod for a second. Sorry, disregard all rhetoric


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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Anonymous

Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Sclorch]
    #933270 - 10/05/02 12:10 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Injuns? :grin:  Sclorch, I luv ya man.  That's too funny!

To answer your question in detail would take more time than I have.

Tunkasila, Grandfather or (Great Mystery), is like the Christian God in the Lakota belief system.

I love to hear white man beat drum of not knowing.  Me make heap big HA HA!

Most Natives are pantheists or more properly, animists.

Hau, Kola!

Mitakuye Oyasin, 


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OfflineLarrythescaryrexS
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Sclorch]
    #933693 - 10/05/02 02:42 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

when I die, I am going up to the spirit in the sky...



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RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #933847 - 10/05/02 05:16 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Spirit in the skyyyyY! (That's where I'm gonna go when I die)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Shroomism]
    #935075 - 10/05/02 08:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

When I die and they lay me to rest,
I'm gonna go to the place where there's breasts.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Swami]
    #935943 - 10/06/02 04:04 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

:grin: 


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Shroomism]
    #936003 - 10/06/02 05:11 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Did I not get the lyrics correct?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Swami]
    #936007 - 10/06/02 05:13 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

No, perfect.


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OfflineMarkZero
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Registered: 09/22/02
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Re: First Americans (it's PC for Injuns) [Re: Shroomism]
    #936247 - 10/06/02 12:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

A couple links you might find interesting.

'Native American' cultures and misc

Cherokee traditions


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