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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This?
    #11236605 -

People ask me why I rile against superstition and belief in nonsensical things for which there is no evidence. They tell me that those beliefs are harmless even if they're unwarranted. They're wrong.

Here are some of the fruits of these kinds of beliefs. Things like god, telepathy, telekinesis, remote viewing, psychics, astrology, and all the rest: five people accused of witchcraft burned alive in Kenya.

Warning: it's graphic.



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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Diploid]
    #11236720 -

Superstition does this to people People. Its a damn shame


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Genesis 1:29 - Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you"

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Diploid]
    #11236744 -

I notice that in asking about a benevolent God, you also assume an omnipotent one.  The God I believe in works through persuasion, not coercion.  Someone else must heed God's call of a higher purpose in order for God to work in the world.  Thus God alone cannot stop evil.  He needs us to work with him to do so.

Now, you are quick jump on belief in witchcraft as the terrible factor which is responsible for these brutal deaths.  It is true that they would not be murdering these people for witchcraft if they did not believe in it, but notice that by the legal system they are using, they could just as easily convict someone of poisoning someone else, and the accusation would be enough to kill them.  Is this sufficient reason not to believe in the existence of poison?  You don't know for a fact that witchcraft isn't real.  You just assume it isn't because you have yet to see sufficient evidence to convince you.  But if you rule it out entirely by appeal to the consequences, you're not being very scientific.

As I see it, the real culprit here is an unfair justice system.  Let them go ahead and believe in witchcraft, but let the accused have a fair trial in which they face their accusers, have a right to an attorney, and the burden of proof is on the prosecution.  How many convictions do you think they could get if they applied these standards here?  If they have due process, they can believe whatever the hell they want.

Furthermore, so-called "rationalism" has been behind witch-hunts before too.  Ever heard of the Reign of Terror?


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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Silversoul]
    #11236886 -

you also assume an omnipotent one

If he's not omnipotent, then what's god-like about him? A non-omnipotent god is an ordinary being like us.

What makes this fallible, non-omnipotent guy who needs our help to accomplish his goals worthy of the title "god" or worthy of our worship?


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Diploid]
    #11236923 -

Diploid said:
you also assume an omnipotent one

If he's not omnipotent, then what's god-like about him? A non-omnipotent god is an ordinary being like us.

What makes this fallible, non-omnipotent guy who needs our help to accomplish his goals worthy of the title "god" or worthy of our worship?


Transcending and including the entire universe in his being would be a start.  Also being the source of novelty would be another part.  If you take out omnipotence, you've still got omnipresence and omniscience left.  Is that not worthy of the title "God"?  And I never said God is fallible.  I just believe that God's perfect needn't require omnipotence.

Here's a little video on the mistake of omnipotence:



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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? *DELETED* [Re: Silversoul]
    #11237621 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11237808 -

Look at yourself, you believe in terrorists and torture and kill them and even kill the entire country where only a few of them come from.

Terrorists are superstition but you believe in it with all your heart. This is the exact same situation as believing in witches and burning them. The exact same thing, except you take the whole fucking country down, including chideren and women. How people can be so blind is beyond me.

But this blindless of you people this belief in terrorists, is the exact same thing as the belief in witches... you are so much crueler than those people in the video... so infintely more gullible and stupid to believe such a thing as terrorism exists.

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Diploid]
    #11237999 -

Astrology is the evilest of them all.

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Diploid]
    #11238247 -

well that was a beautiful way to start my day......:mad2:


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Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? *DELETED* [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11238287 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: "

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Diploid]
    #11238404 -

Here are some of the fruits of these kinds of beliefs. Things like god, telepathy, telekinesis, remote viewing, psychics, astrology, and all the rest: five people accused of witchcraft burned alive in Kenya.

...Excluded Middle...??:confused:

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Diploid]
    #11238555 -

Diploid said:
People ask me why I rile against superstition and belief in nonsensical things for which there is no evidence. They tell me that those beliefs are harmless even if they're unwarranted. They're wrong.

Here are some of the fruits of these kinds of beliefs. Things like god, telepathy, telekinesis, remote viewing, psychics, astrology, and all the rest: five people accused of witchcraft burned alive in Kenya.

Warning: it's graphic.




Now now Dip my good man. They were going to die anyway. Nature herself kills in very unpleasant ways at time.

Best to just get on with it and try and stay out of trouble. Nature is red in tooth and claw. Human primates are part of that violence. Has always been that way.

I think the deal is to be aware of what is in ourselves and in our species so you can see any negativity coming before it can over take you and take steps to get out of its was so some other sucker gets eaten. That's all one can really do IMO.:shrug: And if you don't like violence then you can take steps in yourself to avoid put it out into the world unnecessarily.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Icelander]
    #11238834 -

The stance taken on this video, is that they people being torched alive were NOT witches or sorcerers. How do we know that to be true. If perspective is truly everyting, and these people were indeed practicing witchcraft then the obviously believed in it. If they did indeed believe, and those that persecuted them believed, then did that not make this whole incident have meaning. When this old man is sitting there with his legs in the fire, probably looking back on his life thinking about all the things he accomplished, and the sorrows he faced, all the while wondering "when will death come, this fire is freaking slow." Do you think he was still believing he was a witch, do you think he still believed in witch craft? Do you think he was chanting while he was being burned alive?

The reason I bring this up, is because we know that witches don't exist. We don't believe in spells, however, This is a reflection of the same things Christians have Willingly died for in history. Renounce your Christ God or you shall be beheaded... One would think, then let the renouncing begin, however, many people met death by the choice of their own hand by refusing to denounce Christ.

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Band of Gypsys]
    #11238933 -

Band of Gypsys said:
Astrology is the evilest of them all.


I fuckin' hate Geminis!  KILL THEM ALL!!!


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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11239169 -

Lakefingers said:
Unlike like acts of voodoo, acts of terrorism are real. Such acts can be dealt with by criminal justice system for on these grounds.



Thats the whole point. We believe acts of terrorism are real, we are being exactly as superstitious as those kenyans.

America needs oil, and suddenly out of nowhere, the country with the most oil flies two planes into our towers. How fucking convenient is that? How is two random people destroying our towers a good reason to punish millions of people living peacefully far away?

I think the average westerner is even more superstitious then the people in the video. Believing in such a thing a s terrorism.. but have we ever given terrorism a thought? We go surpress a country and then they fight back and we go OMG YOU CANT FIGHT BAKC YOU FUCKING TERRORISTS!.... I don't see any difference in the war on terrorism and the prosecution of witches. Both superstition.

I hope you can see how our stupidity is a direct contribution to the suffering in this world. We really need to stop believing in bullshit like terrorism.

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11239878 -

As I have SilverSoul OnIgnore I am going to guess he is going on again about how evil Gemini's are. Am I right?


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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Silversoul]
    #11239881 -

Political beliefs are just that, beliefs. The issue is not with which kind of beliefs but indeed with all beliefs for which there is no evidence. And it is right to be harsh and opposed to those beliefs, especially when they first come about, in order to encourage the believers to support their claims and discourage blind faith.


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"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #11239906 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
As I have SilverSoul OnIgnore I am going to guess he is going on again about how evil Gemini's are. Am I right?


Lol how did you know?

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Silversoul]
    #11239942 -

Quote:
God is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent, according to Christians, right? To be present everywhere... what is present everywhere? Everything is the answer. So God is omnipresent=god is everywhere=god is everything? How about omnipotence? If you are omnipotent then you can do anything, and if God is everything, then God is also every action, meaning god is omnipotent because he is everything and has done any and everything that has ever been done. Third, if God is omniscient, then God is all knowing. If God is everything that ever was, is, or will be, then God knows all that has ever been known.
Everything is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. Everything is God and God is everything.
Read Isaiah 45:5-7



Also that video is loaded with pseudo-philo bullshit and barely even entertains the idea of "making sense".

I mean seriously according to that semblance of logic, god being omniscient and omnipresent, a discussion of power would not matter because he is the very power of which you discuss.

Edited for grammar.


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"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly

Edited by mozhual (10/13/09 06:51 PM)

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Re: How Can Anyone Believe In A Benevolent God Who Allows This? [Re: Icelander]
    #11239971 -

Quote:
Now now Dip my good man. They were going to die anyway. Nature herself kills in very unpleasant ways at time.


Nature doesn't kill herself EVER. She throws her creations some challenges and curves, like for example the 148 mass extinctions that took place on earth before humanity ever arose.

Quote:
I think the deal is to be aware of what is in ourselves and in our species so you can see any negativity coming before it can over take you and take steps to get out of its was so some other sucker gets eaten.

Such is the usefulness of sociology and behavioral psychology and related disciplines.


--------------------
"Nature is like a sculptor constantly improving upon her work, but to do so she chisels away at living flesh." H.K. Bloom

"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent...
Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent...
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god." Epicurus c. 300 BCE

"When I brought up the fact that 'No drug is good or bad, they're all just A drug, what someone does with them determines the postive or negative outcome. Look at medicine, those are drugs' Reponse was that 'well medicine solves problems' well so does LSD." -Learningtofly

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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