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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am rant...
    #1650173 - 06/21/03 03:13 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

WARNING...rant...
While driving through town yesterday I saw a homeless
guy crouched down on the ground in the most disheaveled
state eating what seemed to be something absolutely
grotesque, while people did their usual catwalk routine
strutting around in luxury on the main drag. I felt just
awful for the guy, partially because I can really imagine
being in his position. There was a time when I felt really
bad for homeless people but I never truely believed it could
happen to me (u know how, often, one never quite believes that
something truely awful could happen to u - "it" always
happens to other people... I've read that a lot of people
who get cancer/other fatal conditions initially react this way).
Life has taught me that anything can happen, and
I could just picture myself being in the bums position, it
was the most frightning and terrible feeling.

To be honest
I've been very suicidal lately and I can't imagine why this
person goes on living... I mean what exactly does he have
other than constant pain and misery in his life ?

It's past 3 am right now and a bunch of guys/girls are
doin their thing round the block screamin, shoutin, flirtin
and seemingly havin a great time. I couldn't sleep so I
poured a drink (gotta stop doing this :frown:) and couldn't help
think about the poor bum, probably huddled up on some
street corner...

I just don't know how religious people reconcile such stark
unfairness in life. I mean we're talkin about an Omnipotent
Infinitely Compassionate and Benevolent God. So much suffering,
just sad. 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am rant... [Re: lucid]
    #1650192 - 06/21/03 03:31 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

and here I am feeling sorry for myself, wonderin what
happened to my life and how I've become so miserable
and suicidal myself. I frickin hate myself
(I know, I know, guilt doesn't help, but it's how I feel right now,
must accept). Hate myself for wanting my life to be different,
hate myself for not being able to handle my current situation,
and hate myself for not being comfortable with the way
the world is in general. Not much I could do for the poor homeless
guy, other than give him enough to get by for a few days.

I just don't know what I'm doing. I meditate considerably,
but I'm not sure if it's helping. Maybe I'm just screwing up
my life deluding myself about the spiritual path (i.e. that
there is more to life than materialism, that some sustained
happiness n peace can be found inside ourselves). Feel very confused.
Maybe the best one can hope for in life is "cars & girls".
Maybe that's what I should be doing right now...
Or maybe I should give that homeless guy a room...

Maybe I should refrain from writing posts when I'm not sober :smirk:
sorry guys (and gals, if there's any on this forum), but I just
wonder if it's just me or do u'all feel this way often ?
The question of life, why it sucketh, and how to live it
as best as we can.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: lucid]
    #1650232 - 06/21/03 04:10 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

This may well be BS.

I'm not one to split humanity into two groups, but if I were I'd say the division is best made across the neophyte/neophobe line.

Us "phytes", carving novel territory, receive the subconscious resentment of the "phobes" in addition to the insecurity of trail blazing.  (All trails incidentally need not be positive. Chaos ensures that many are dead ends.)

I think we're in a dark ages, a surge of "phobe"ism in response fundamentally to the sixties "phyte" movement, which makes it particularly difficult to be iconoclast. I also think "it"operates on a pendulum basis, i.e. that once it reaches its extreme the only way to swing is in the opposite direction -- in other words, "phyte"ism should experience an equal and opposite swing in response to this current surge.

I also think we live in somewhat historic times, given our civilization's similarities with past collapsed cultures. If my life was to work in a cube farm 50 hours a week from now until 70, I'd probably choose to buy the farm. Because I don't believe that it will be, I haven't and won't. Perhaps this means I'm utopian and idealist, and that once I hit the dreaded 30 I'll realize my youthful folly, start voting republican, and attend church on sundays. Nah :smile:

I'm by no means a shrink, but are you a) addicted and b) isolated? Either might explain your suicidal feelings.


PS I'm baked myself, so please disregard this is if it offbase -- I'm staying up late to train myself for a nightshift temp position I have starting monday. Work :frown: - I was just getting used to a life of leisure.


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OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
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Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am rant... [Re: lucid]
    #1650233 - 06/21/03 04:12 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I am grieving over a girl.  woohoo  :frown: 


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OfflineKenny Bus
The enlightend

Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 321
Loc: ontario
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am rant... [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1650537 - 06/21/03 10:26 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i feel the same way, only thing keeps me going are the people who care about me, sometimes i wish they didnt so i could end it


--------------------
KB


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am rant... [Re: Kenny Bus]
    #1650670 - 06/21/03 12:11 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

>I'm by no means a shrink, but are you a) addicted and b) isolated?
I'm certainly isolated, but what about the homeless guy ?
he seems completely isolated with not much to live for, but
he seems to keep on going... why isn't he suicidal ?
I mean sure, he might be, but my point is that how
come a lot of people in world with seemingly little to
live for, with an agonizing daily existence, arn't suicidal ?
did the thought of taking their own lives just not occur to
them yet ? or is it that society/upbringing has just
programmed them to believe that suicide is simply not an option ?
people often try to figure out what drives people to suicide,
I'm trying to figure out the opposite, what keeps em living ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: lucid]
    #1650894 - 06/21/03 02:08 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You might be right about the socialization aspect - suicide is definitely sinful (or equivalent) in many religions (one of the few moral dogmas that *requires* a belief in the afterlife). ("Keep the serfs alive").

What immediately comes to mind is Maslow's hierarchy of needs (or Leary's 8 circuits) - when you're struggling on survival level, you don't have a lot left to devote to higher order functioning (I believe once the survival instinct kicks in, it is pretty stubborn). So, question: Is all suicide driven by "higher-order" functions? Certainly intellectualism carrying existentialist doubts is higher in the hierarchy.

Also: fear of death. Easy to forget when you've taken psychedelics (one of the common effects of which is to ease up or recede death fears), but a lot of humans have such a strong feeling here that it would be taboo within their own mind to consider the option.

I have also read, perverse as it may seem, that many homeless people have a sense of "freedom" (from society, responsibility) which means that in some ways life is actually enjoyable. Whether this is just rationalization on their part, I don't know - in either case life isn't purely malignant for them. Some others have family or friends who they're determined to "get back on their feet" forl; for this group suicide would be a defeat.



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OfflineCockyMandrill
addict

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 404
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Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1651128 - 06/21/03 03:29 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I've been there before. At one point in my life I lost my materialism, but wasnt on my spiritual path yet. That really left nothing to live for. I wish I could have been born somewhere where I actually had to struggle growing up to live, so that I would have had more of an appreciation for it. Its nearly impossible not to survive in American, and people end up worrying and fighting about the stupidest things. Now, I'm just happy to be alive and breathing, who knows what life has in store for me.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: somebodyelse]
    #1651366 - 06/21/03 05:18 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Hey somebodyelse,
excellent post ! :smile:
>when you're struggling on survival level, you don't have a lot left
>to devote to higher order functioning
so true, hungry people think about food not about the purpose
of life.

What do u think about "enlightened" folks ? I mean the Buddha
didn't kill himself after "seeing the light" so to speak. In
fact most evolved sages seem to carry on living, wonder if there
is something inherently "right" about living on.
What do u think ? 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinesomebodyelse
In_Is_Out

Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 296
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: lucid]
    #1651432 - 06/21/03 05:46 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I know of one recent "enlightened being" who jumped off a fishing boat in the middle of the Pacific when he was in his early 30s. Apparently he felt that he'd done what he came to do. His disciples said he was calm, happy, and glowing gold right before he made the jump.

But despite that, yeah, I do think there's something "right" in living on . I can't really quantify that statement without heading into the territory of platitudes. Just an "IMO".

Check out this page on the Chapel Perilous - may be interesting.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/8096/chapelde.html


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am rant... [Re: lucid]
    #1651788 - 06/21/03 08:16 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You going through the same problems and as me, it was like reading my own problems.

:frown:


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am rant... [Re: lucid]
    #1652144 - 06/21/03 11:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, i dont know...i dont view homelessness as a bad thing, its something i kind of glorify. I take my time and i talk to the homeless, and alot have alot to say. ive met some who are the most noble people in society, theyve given up on "ordinary life" they live without obligation, or expectations, they live without money, or worries, they just live and do what they need to live.

If you dropped a man in the forest, it would be his natural instinct to build shelter and seek food, to survive. Bums are just woodsman in a concrete jungle....Well, maybe thats not such a great analogy, but they are survivors, and you might be surprised at how many live that life BY CHOICE.

What does he have beside misery and dispair? He has freedom to do whatever he pleases, he can think all day, and enjoy the outdoors, he can analyze all the crap in all of our lives and feel superior because he doesnt play the stupid fucking game we call living.


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.


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OfflineNova

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 1,363
Last seen: 3 months, 14 days
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: CockyMandrill]
    #1652281 - 06/22/03 12:16 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CockyMandrill said:
I've been there before. At one point in my life I lost my materialism, but wasnt on my spiritual path yet. That really left nothing to live for. I wish I could have been born somewhere where I actually had to struggle growing up to live, so that I would have had more of an appreciation for it. Its nearly impossible not to survive in American, and people end up worrying and fighting about the stupidest things. Now, I'm just happy to be alive and breathing, who knows what life has in store for me.




^^^ Yep


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
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Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: Nova]
    #1652344 - 06/22/03 12:39 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

u make a good point PDU, perhaps I took a bad
example - i.e. homeless people. I really meant
to understand people with a seemingly agonizing
existance who "appear" to "choose" to go on living.
I've known some people who lived in horrible conditions
and were openly resentful of their situation (and
felt treated unfairly by life) and yet went on living.
I'm not in touch with em so I can't ask em this
(besides it's not exactly a polite question to ask -
"excuse me, but your life sucks... why exactly
are u alive"). So, to clarify, that's what I was curious
about. somebodyelse made some insightful suggestions about
this. Any further ideas ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleArmFromTheAbyss
Old Hand

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 1,364
Loc: Down here in Babylon
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am rant... [Re: lucid]
    #1652353 - 06/22/03 12:42 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If he had died years ago you would have never seen him on the streets. You wouldn't be pondering what you are or going through as tough of a nite. Things are meant to happen because they already have man, time isn't linear. He's still alive, I mean everybody is alive for a reason. It may not make sense sometimes until you look at the big picture. The big picture is god, all of us combined create god.

I know what you're going through, all of us go through it at points. But things always get better. Love life, it's your life to create, so why feel sad?


--------------------


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OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
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Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: lucid]
    #1652781 - 06/22/03 03:04 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You know Lucid, im pretty damn curious myself.

Im not suicidal, and i wouldnt have ever considered myself suicidal, but thats just because im too stubborn to kill myself. I dont want to live, i am constantly plagued by living...I dont lead a rough life at all, i just see that the world is turning to shit. I see that the world has been around for billions of years, and in just 200 this human parasite has colonized every part of it, and destroyed every part of it. I see humanity ending in another couple hundred years, and i know i dont matter in the "big picture". I dont want to be apart of a society which is so uncompassionate, idiotic, and destructful. And yet i cant offer you a better explanation for why im living than "because im too stubborn to off myself." Its pretty pathetic, but i think that might apply to the homeless guy, and it probably does to you too.


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.


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OfflineKenny Bus
The enlightend

Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 321
Loc: ontario
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: PDU]
    #1652855 - 06/22/03 03:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

fear? imo everyone has a tiny bit of satisfaction everyday, if that homeless guy finds a dollar i'm sure hes happy for a little while, would you give up what little happyness you have for the mistery door? when the majority think that if you do theres nothing behind that door but hell


--------------------
KB


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OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
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Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: Kenny Bus]
    #1652900 - 06/22/03 03:42 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Fear of the unknown is surly a part of it. Im not sure how i feel about afterlife, and your right...who knows if death, the other option is better than reality.

And Satisfaction is about all the keeps me going, i get satisfaction out of small things, not money, or cars, or nice shoes, but being able to roll on the grass, or climb a tree, or smoke someone up...without those things i would kill myself.


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.


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OfflineDrBonG
JTO KREW

Registered: 03/09/03
Posts: 90
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: PDU]
    #1653207 - 06/22/03 10:15 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

what keeps us going? Maybe we think things can get better, but that isn't always true.


--------------------
Cemetery lady, my cemetery girl
Cemetery baby, I want you in my world
Cemetery woman, we can still be down
You're more than just a corpse to a psychopathic clown


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OfflineGrav
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Re: life ain't fair... what keeps us going ?..God...3 am ran [Re: DrBonG]
    #1653455 - 06/22/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The notion that we're still waiting to really try our hardest, and do something with no regret.


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