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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #8522766 -

Senor_Hongos said:
They laughed at the Marx Brothers too.


:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8522876 -

Quote:
2. The Theory of Evolution is the best proven theory in science.


Not true!  I get the jist of what you are saying, but you should leave this one out next time.

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Wolfgang]
    #8523153 -

Wolfgang said:
Science usually is but doesn't have to be limited to not crediting a higher power.


Scientists cannot professionally make such conclusions without evidence or taking more-likely alternatives into account. And, in modern science, just about any alternative is more likely than "an invisible god magically made it so."


--------------------
"So can you tell me what exactly does freedom mean/
If I'm not free to be as twisted as I wanna be" -Divide by Disturbed

Good Guitars Don't Cry

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8523163 -

DieCommie said:
Quote:
2. The Theory of Evolution is the best proven theory in science.


Not true!  I get the jist of what you are saying, but you should leave this one out next time.


True, the many theories and laws in Physics are probably better-proven, but the Theory of Evolution is one of the strongest and most influential ones in the life sciences.


--------------------
"So can you tell me what exactly does freedom mean/
If I'm not free to be as twisted as I wanna be" -Divide by Disturbed

Good Guitars Don't Cry

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Middleman]
    #8523199 -

Middleman said:
According to the laws of physics the moon should be spinning.

There are many mathematical coincidences between the Earth, Sun and Moon as if the system was tuned.

There is more scientific evidence supporting the theory that the moon was stabilized by aliens than supporting the bible.


The moon is in its current position by happy circumstance, but it is actually moving away from the Earth and has been for a long time. Also the moon DOES spin/rotate, we on Earth are given the false impression that it doesn't: http://www.jimloy.com/astro/moon0.htm


--------------------
"So can you tell me what exactly does freedom mean/
If I'm not free to be as twisted as I wanna be" -Divide by Disturbed

Good Guitars Don't Cry

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: N2loma]
    #8523311 -

I know the moon is rotating as fast as it orbits.

I did not know that other moons do the same.

I had just read Drunvalo Melchizedek. Yet another theory in the trash.

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8525533 -

DieCommie said:
Quote:
2. The Theory of Evolution is the best proven theory in science.


Not true!  I get the jist of what you are saying, but you should leave this one out next time.


Hmm... trying to quantify the amount of evidence that supports different theories and rank them is probably impossible anyway. I will leave that out next time. :wink:

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8525796 -

Yea, but there is one good measure...  What theory provides the most accurate predictive power?  That is, which one makes predictions that are confirmed to the most decimal places?  If that is the metric, QED from physics wins I think.

Of course, I dont think the theory of evolution by natural selection can make many numerical predictions.  Now I wonder...if any bio people know... what kind of numerical predictions can natural selection make, if any?  Maybe some statistics on trait propagation or something...

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: DieCommie]
    #8525825 -

The Hardy-Weinberg principle is an interesting (and useful) application of mathematical modelling to population genetics.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
    #8526313 -

ObliviousSeeker said:
How much scientific evidence is there to support the Bible's claims that the Earth is 6,000 years old and was created by a being not bound to the laws of time, space, matter, and energy(God)?


The Bible Theory has exactly as much scientific evidence as the Flying Spaghetti Monster Theory. The Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster is trying to get equal time in the schools of Kansas for Evolution, Creationism, and The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I think it would be very beneficial for Kansas if they succeed.

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
    #8526681 -

ObliviousSeeker said:
The idea of God is a being that ALWAYS existed.. there was no "Who created God?"  because then that creator would be superior to God...

The idea of God is that he exists outside of time, space, matter, and energy.  Therefore he is not bound by the resulting laws of these things.  It is not possible to comprehend how he exists.

But is it really "silly", as one poster puts it, to believe in God, opposed to believing that everything came from nothing?  How does something come from nothing? There is no logic in that, so why say there is no logical reason to believe in a creator? 


It is silly to believe in a God with all the impossible properties you have just proposed, as compared to believing that we do not yet understand how the Universe came to exist.  If it is possible that a Supernatural Being has "always existed," why is it impossible that the vibrating energy which comprises matter has "always existed," in ever-changing forms? 

An all-powerful Creator who came from nothing, is not subject to natural laws, and whose existence is not evident sounds like fantasy.  Grasping onto such a fantastical and baseless belief appears to be a means of avoiding the mystery, not embracing it.

The fact is We DON'T KNOW, and filling in the blanks with tall tales of a Supernatural Being seems desperate and, yes, SILLY to me.  It might be true, but I see nothing to suggest that it is.  I don't believe that God definitely does not exist, but I find the concept unworkable and awkward as an answer to our questions.

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Veritas]
    #8526752 -

:thumbup: right


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Veritas]
    #8535271 -

Veritas said:
It is silly to believe in a God with all the impossible properties you have just proposed, as compared to believing that we do not yet understand how the Universe came to exist.


Believing in a God which is the unification of all things, and which therefore envelopes all natural laws within itself (a conciliatory concept), and recognizing that it's not yet understood how the universe came to be, is not a "one or the other" deal.


Quote:
If it is possible that a Supernatural Being has "always existed," why is it impossible that the vibrating energy which comprises matter has "always existed," in ever-changing forms?


People have been pointing out to you this same question and supposition applies to both a God and a no-God universe, and no one has been rejecting the application of this thought to a God universe, but you have been failing to notice that the same thought applies to a no-God universe. To ask this suggests that you haven't been paying attention or giving thought to the answers people have given you.

Also, God as a "supernatural being" would be a false definition, and a conundrum, since God is supposedly all in all, and therefore the exact opposite of supernatural. "The vibrating energy which comprises all matter" is a more suitable definition for God, but "the sum is more than its parts" probably applies in the same way it would to two halves of one brain.

Quote:
An all-powerful Creator who came from nothing, is not subject to natural laws, and whose existence is not evident sounds like fantasy. Grasping onto such a fantastical and baseless belief appears to be a means of avoiding the mystery, not embracing it.


Just to humour, if the beginning was the big bang (which isn't contradicatory to a God belief anyway), what caused the big bang? What cause that which caused the big bang? What caused the thing before that? See? You're the only one who is suggesting that these questions apply to one concept and not to the other. If you think a God universe is fantasy due to question provided, then you will think that a solution which doesn't entail God is also fantasy, because, as others have been noting for you, the exact same question of how things began remains.

Now, humouring aside, the idea that anything came from nothing is absurd.

A part of the problem here is that you have an undeveloped concept of God.
Here is a better one:
An all-encompassing and therefore all-powerful creator ("source" may be an easier to understand word) who always was, and since being all natural laws, is not subject to them.


Quote:
The fact is We DON'T KNOW, and filling in the blanks with tall tales of a Supernatural Being seems desperate and, yes, SILLY to me.  It might be true, but I see nothing to suggest that it  is.  I on't believe that God definitely does not exist, but I find the concept unworkable and awkward as an answer to our questions.


Yet all your thoughts on this matter have been very silly and devoid of understanding for me, and, I suspect, others. What logic do you use to suppose that God is meant as a fill-in-the-blank, and a cause to disregard learning about the specifics of life's origins? That's the same as suggesting that "the pizza guy brought it" is the most thorough and complete answer that can be given to the question of "where did this pizza come from?" Who is using an excuse of "God" as an answer to how life began? The only person here arguing God as a fill in the blank is someone who has a completely incongruous understanding of the concept, and I think that denotes a mind which could use a little expanding.

Edited by Disco Cat (06/17/08 11:34 PM)

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8535296 -

A belief in God represents an elevation of the Self to the status of absolute supremacy. We do not understand the source or physical nature of our awareness, and so it is comforting to imagine that there is a "perfect" version of Awareness at the heart of the universe, directing matters.

I am of the opinion that Awareness is probably a dimension of the universe, but most likely constantly stuck in a "What the fuck?" type situation, as we are all in at the moment. There are dimensions which are aware, and dimensions which are unaware, and so the aware dimensions are not capable of understanding those which are unaware. But I am always open to new ideas.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8535343 -

Tchan909 said:
A belief in God represents an elevation of the Self to the status of absolute supremacy. We do not understand the source or physical nature of our awareness, and so it is comforting to imagine that there is a "perfect" version of Awareness at the heart of the universe, directing matters.


Comfort/discomfort has nothing to do with it and is nothing more than a shot in the dark attempt at psychoanalyzing without understanding.

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8535352 -

Disco Cat said:
Comfort/discomfort has nothing to do with it and is nothing more than a shot in the dark attempt at psychoanalyzing without understanding.


Explain to me why and how this is.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8535469 -

Because it's conjecture, a non-sequitur, and only an artsy-fartsy thing to say. You say "we," yet this obviously doesn't include you, since someone who has come to such a conclusion cannot possibly accept a belief which they deem to be false, so therefore you cannot be deriving any personal comfort from this concept. Therefore, you cannot know what the rationale of people who do believe such a thing is, since you are not one of them. You are attempting to psychoanalyze from the outside without an understanding of your subjects that they'd agree with, using vague and oversimplistic daydreamish musings which work to pass the buck more than they do to explain.

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8536055 -

I definitely understand the idea of a belief in God. I've spent quite a bit of time thinking about it, boomeranging between various assumptions about the nature of God. And I've come to the conclusion that any assumption about the nature of God (whether it exists, or doesn't exist, or exists in some incomprehensible degree in between nonexistence and existence) is just that: an assumption.

I do not like to make statements that I can't conclusively back up. Assumptions should be avoided. And obviously, you have failed to conclusively back up your assumptions about God.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (06/18/08 04:37 AM)

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8536104 -

That's a peculiar statement, considering that I haven't stated any assumptions about God, and not even suggested whether God exists or not. I pointed out flaws in reasoning and understanding, I didn't make an argument for theism.

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Re: Is there more scientific evidence supporting the Bible than Evolution? [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8536125 -

You've provided arguments against the belief in a "no-God universe." However, you have provided no tenable arguments in favor of a "God universe." There is no real substance to your arguments, only scoffs at the assumptions of no-Godness. However, you yourself base these scoffs only on the assumption that awareness is universal and all-powerful.

This is an assumption that I can sympathize with, but it holds no sway what-so-ever over those in doubt.

Edited by Tchan909 (06/18/08 05:34 AM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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