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 Shroomism
Space Travellin
 
Registered: 02/14/00
Posts: 66,006
Loc: 9th Dimension
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 Re: UFOs and Scientific Research  [Re: Swami]
#1027110 - 11/06/02 01:41 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ah! Swami I found your site.
http://www.ufoskeptic.org/
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 GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Shroomism]
#1027115 - 11/06/02 02:11 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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One interpretation of ths law could be that the government are trying to fan the flames to help keep the secret research projects under cover or disguised as UFOs.....but im not pareanoid...really! 
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Always Smi2le
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: GazzBut]
#1027581 - 11/06/02 06:36 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your reply was basically a case of if you cant effectively dismiss the argument, Dismiss the author, dismiss the style.
That's just swami's cheeky way.
Of course there is so much scientific work to be done on aliens and UFO's that the problem is figuring out where to begin rather than any "lack of something to research".
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/14/00
Posts: 66,006
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Xlea321]
#1028264 - 11/06/02 10:42 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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The links I provided are a good place to start.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: GazzBut]
#1028867 - 11/07/02 01:16 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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I myself am a human fiirst. Later i may attach labels like rationalist to myself.
Later? You have ALREADY attached labels to yourself as we all have.
But i never forget they are convenient fictions, and dont get caught up in sense of importance generated by a mere word.
Most of our labels are not so obvious and are carried at the subconscious level.
We all have gut reactions Swami, as you well know.
Why are you telling me what I know, especially if I do know it so well? Is redundancy important to you?
Gut reactions are useless in identifying scientific truths. Einstein's gut reaction about many aspects of quantuum physics that are widely accepted today, was that the universe could not possibly work that way.
I have zero interest in gut reactions, only confirmable research.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Xlea321]
#1028882 - 11/07/02 01:19 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, I'm afraid it's a tendency of mine to demolish your arguments.
No, it is typical to violate the basic laws of logical argument as I have clearly pointed out. Instead of responding to my points directly you sidestep with a meaningless sweeping statement.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Xlea321]
#1028901 - 11/07/02 01:24 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Clearly you would have been saying "What research can you do? Stop thinking about these things Einstein".
"Thinking about" is not research. Is this too complex an idea for you to grasp? So If I want to research aliens, I just think about them? How profound!
Progress is made by people who think diametrically opposite to you.
Is this the level at which your mind functions?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: GazzBut]
#1028957 - 11/07/02 01:39 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Swami, this question is loaded, you are basically using it as a platform to air your views.
Wow! I would be the FIRST EVER person on these message boards to do so!
In the question, you also state an opinion which you fail to substantiate:
"I frequently hear of UFO buffs whining about the lack of "serious" scientific research into the subject."
It is not an opinion. Try reading some MUFON Journals. Go to the UFO sites and message boards. Look back at some old threads here.
Who is actually doing this expecting? Are you implying all non scientific researchers into UFO's feel this way?
Not al, but many proponents are quite vocal on this. Again, look at the threads on Crop CIrcles, Cattle mutilations abduction, etc. The frequent cry si "Why doesn't anyone care? Why is not the govermnet getting involved in protecting it's citizens? Why doesn't mainstream science do more research? Just read even a little bit.
Perhaps there is a large number who don't really care about the scientific establishment, at this time.
Of course many don't care. Who wants their favorite belief to be revealed to be false?
Later you mention "Physical "evidence" has been examined and not shown to be non-native to this planet."
Without explicitly saying so, you are implying this applies to all physical evidence that has ever been examined. Perhaps there were conflicts of opinion in some of these cases? perhaps you dont know the entire canon of ufo research inside and out? (Im not saying I do)
The entire cannon? No. But having read several hundred books, magazine articles, websites, I find that the believers cannot come up with ons single piece that can stand up to scrutiny. Even read shroomism's websites. All "evidence" is subject to multiple interpretations and is hardly conclusive.
"As I have stated many, many times - even UFO believers cannot show any link from a mysterious light in the sky to civilizations from another world. PERIOD."
What am I to infer from this? Well, they definitely havent shown you a link have they? Does this mean one does not/will not exist PERIOD?
The ETH is bandied about TODAY by believers (and yesterday) with not one single link to another star system other than a voice-in-the-head.
I thought Alex's post made a very good point that science has always been about theorising beyond currently available data, and was also relevant to the question you had posed.
Theorising is NOT research. This should not be difficult to grasp. Research is field or lab work and not mere manipulation of ideas.
Your reply was basically a case of if you cant effectively dismiss the argument, Dismiss the author, dismiss the style.
Please read up on logic. A strawman type argument is fallacious whether from Alex or Einstein.
I think everyone has a gut feeling about the Ufo alien question. Whats your gut feeling swami?
30 years of research at actual sites, talking to witnesses, viewing videos and in the library has turned up nothing of substance.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
#1030577 - 11/07/02 08:07 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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30 years of research at actual sites, talking to witnesses, viewing videos and in the library has turned up nothing of substance.
Maybe if you ask Shroomism nicely, he'll arrange for the aliens to implant a communicator chip in your neocortex. That way you too will be able to "communicate" with the aliens.
Duh!
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/14/00
Posts: 66,006
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Sclorch]
#1030595 - 11/07/02 08:11 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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That can be arranged...
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
#1030701 - 11/07/02 08:30 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Thinking about" is not research. Is this too complex an idea for you to grasp? So If I want to research aliens, I just think about them? How profound!
Tell me something. Did Einstein come up with relativity by "thinking about" it or doing research?
Do not limit the scientific method to what you feel comfortable with.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Xlea321]
#1030720 - 11/07/02 08:34 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Tell me something. Did Einstein come up with relativity by "thinking about" it or doing research?
Actually, it was through research. His research when he worked in a patent office I believe...
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Sclorch]
#1030760 - 11/07/02 08:52 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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No, he simply thought about it while at work. Nothing to do with what swami considers "research".
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Xlea321]
#1031026 - 11/07/02 10:36 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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He didn't just file papers or whatever at the patent office... he had to UNDERSTAND the patents. So he probably spent many many hours reading other people's research... he then compounded and articulated his theory based on THAT hard evidence.
It also didn't happen like it did in the movie Young Einstein. Man was THAT guy sirius...
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
#1031194 - 11/07/02 11:15 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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So basically you dont believe in aliens! why didnt you just say so at the start!
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Sclorch]
#1031211 - 11/07/02 11:18 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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really? he confirmed his THEORIES of relativity doing RESEARCHin a patent office? are you quite sure Sclorch? :What do you think Swami?
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
#1031290 - 11/07/02 11:41 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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BTW, you may wish to reqd up on your logic as well. I dont believe Alex was using a strawman arguemnt and he definitely didnt finish with a non sequitur.
PEACE
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Always Smi2le
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Shroomism]
#1031390 - 11/07/02 12:56 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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That can be arranged...
But it won't...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: GazzBut]
#1031431 - 11/07/02 01:25 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Note: In this thread I don't want to get directly into the UFO question per se.
So basically you dont believe in aliens! why didnt you just say so at the start!
So basically you have a reading disorder. Sorry to hear of it.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: GazzBut]
#1031449 - 11/07/02 01:38 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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BTW, you may wish to reqd[sic] up on your logic as well. I dont believe Alex was using a strawman arguemnt[sic]
Do you know what that is? Read the following:
The idea that scientists can only address something if the object is laid on a table in front of them is quite frankly ludicrous.
Of course it is ludicrous, but so what? It has nothing to do with my point.
...and he definitely didnt finish with a non sequitur.
Most of the currently accepted ideas about the nature of the universe were considered outlandish nonsense the first time they were suggested.
So what? Where is the relevance? This does not follow. It has NOTHING to do with anything that he was attempting to respond to. How does that fact that Darwinism was originally rejected relate to the topic of what UFO buffs want science to research?
Nothing!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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