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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Xlea321]
    #1031455 - 11/07/02 06:43 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Did Einstein come up with relativity by "thinking about" it or doing research?
His hypothesis was validated by research.

So your point is that all that UFO buffs want scientists to do is sit at home and think about the puzzle? When I ponder a reported light in the sky I am doing serious research?







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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1031488 - 11/07/02 07:12 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Note: In this thread I don't want to get directly into the UFO question per se.

So basically you dont believe in aliens! why didnt you just say so at the start!

So basically you have a reading disorder. Sorry to hear of it.





Silly Swami, This unstated belief is colouring your whole posistion in this thread so whether you like it or not it is relevant.


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
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Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1031491 - 11/07/02 07:18 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Basically, you need to clearly define your terms. Why dont you just say what it is you believe at the start and then let people debate it? Your basically nitpicking over what alex said and he didnt end with a non sequitur.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: GazzBut]
    #1031608 - 11/07/02 08:33 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

What terms are incomprehensible to you?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1031635 - 11/07/02 08:45 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

As far as I'm concerned Scientific Research can apply to Theorising. Theorising always comes before research anyway so the two are intertwined.

I know this is not how you see it but in the scope of your question it is valid.

Look, why ask questions you obviously think you know the answer to?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1032018 - 11/07/02 12:06 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

His hypothesis was validated by research.

Decades later.

So your point is that all that UFO buffs want scientists to do is sit at home and think about the puzzle?

What are you talking about? An enormous part of the scientific process is theorising. These theories then become proved valid or not over time.

Most of the currently accepted ideas about the nature of the universe were considered outlandish nonsense the first time they were suggested.

So what? Where is the relevance?


The relevance is you have spent the last year dismissing anyone and everyone who has mentioned aliens because there is no "scientific proof" for them. Just like 100 years ago you would have been dismissing Einsteins theories as "Utterly ludicrous" because he had no scientific proof either.

Kapiche?

I have no firm views on aliens either way - i merely suggest we approach the subject with an open mind and that you treat people with opposing viewpoints to yourself with respect.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (11/07/02 12:47 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: GazzBut]
    #1032083 - 11/07/02 12:35 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I dont believe Alex was using a strawman arguemnt and he definitely didnt finish with a non sequitur.

Ah don't ruin it Gazz - reading their cock-ups when they try and talk logic makes my day  :grin:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Xlea321]
    #1032276 - 11/07/02 01:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Decades later.
Your point?

What are you talking about? An enormous part of the scientific process is theorising. These theories then become proved valid or not over time.
The theory has already been proposed. This thread specifically talks about the next step. The ETH (extra-terrestrrial hypothesis) states that the unidentified lights in the sky are from another star system.

The relevance is you have spent the last year
As per usual, what I have or have not been doing for the last year is irrelevant, except in your emotional memory.

you would have been dismissing Einsteins theories
I see. You know what I would or would not have been doing in a past life.

Is is impossible for you to stay on track?



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1032449 - 11/07/02 02:42 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The ETH (extra-terrestrrial hypothesis) states that the unidentified lights in the sky are from another star system.

Your knowledge is very limited. Read Jung, Mckenna, Sagan for a basic introduction to the vast number of other theories.

As per usual, what I have or have not been doing for the last year is irrelevant

Do you deny you have been dismissing anyone who raised the subject of aliens for the last year for lack of "scientific proof"? Yes or no.

except in your emotional memory

Sorry, but if you've behaved like a horse's ass for 12 months it does tend to colour how people take your "points".

I see. You know what I would or would not have been doing in a past life.

You yourself have dismissed aliens because there is no scientific proof for them. There was no scientific proof for Relativity either. Ergo, you would have dismissed Relativity.

Is is impossible for you to stay on track?

Is it possible for you to post on-topic rather than making such effeminate remarks?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,006
Loc: 9th Dimension
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1032511 - 11/07/02 03:02 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

So let's skip all the semantics and cut to the chase... what is the best way to determine whether a certain UFO is piloted by an extra-terrestrial?

A. Shoot the UFO down, look inside it

B. We've tried shooting down UFOs many times before, and they are too fast

C. Wait for a piece of metal to fall from the sky and then study it for non-native elements

D. Ask the drivers

Now there is quite obviously a UFO situation. Thousands of reports from all over the world come in all the time. Military workers, police officers, farmers, businessmen, housewives, children.. the UFO do not discriminate. There is plenty of video evidence, documented reports and the phenonema associated with UFO sightings (electrical disturbances etc)

So either this is some huge global conspiracy of secret technology that the governments are using for god knows what reason. Or these UFOs are actual spacecraft from outside our own world, and based on their speed and movement, one has to keep that option open. Or all these hundreds of thousands of people are delusional. Or something else, what do you think it is Swami?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Shroomism]
    #1033076 - 11/07/02 05:13 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Or something else, what do you think it is Swami?

Are you sure there is an "it"? All I see is a large mish-mosh of non-related reports.

Here is what some of my research turned up.

Gulf Breeze - Hoax

Phoenix Lights - military flares

California desert sighting - Vandenburg Air Force base missile test

Las Vegas sighting - FUJI blimp

Yosemite sighting - bolide

Area 51 sightings - military aircraft

Marfa Lights - automobile headlights

Miscellaneous: space debris burn, satellites, commercial aircraft, and yes, a weather balloon (non-Roswell).

These were all pretty much confirmed.


Unidentified:

Friend had a fuzzy photo of a saucer from a Kodak Brownie automatic camera in an Iowan cornfield circa 1958.

Girlfriend saw a large glowing red orb when she was 8 years old.

Another girlfriend saw an alien in her room upon waking up who promptly disappeared. (Sounds like a hypnagogic state to me.)

Miscellaneous stories from strangers about weird glowing lights.

Insufficient data to come to any possible conclusion.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1034409 - 11/08/02 01:24 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Here is what some of my research turned up.

So this is what you call research?  :grin:

Doing a google search for 2 minutes?

What real research have you ever done? 


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1035017 - 11/08/02 05:03 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You drag up  a few carefully selected (by you!) reports to backup your argument? Now this IS a strawman arguement :grin: Shroomism had already provided numerous links to much stronger evidence that that which you give.

Its so funny watching you pose under the guise of a ratinalist when you are just as biased and prejudiced as those you attack.  How much faith does it take for you to summarily dismiss any evidence that comes your way? And if you seriously believe that all UFO phenomena, footage, eyewitness reports etc has categorically been proven to be false or fake then im afraid you are wrong.

I remain skeptical about the whole thing. A few years back I was convinced they were already here etc but I then realised nothing had ever proved conclusively this to be the case. I now really dont know but I know that some of the debunkers are just as deluded as some of the UFO buffs. The sheer scale of this phenomena means something worthy of study is happening. If it offends your notions of logic and rationalism just ignore it. Im sure you have more important things to be doing. Or even better debunk the whole thing yourself, lor are you like these lazy ass UFO buffs who wont put the time in? 


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineEightball
whore consumer
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/21/01
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1036361 - 11/08/02 03:16 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

einstein was a theoretical physiist. basically he didn't experiment to come up with his theories.


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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: GazzBut]
    #1036456 - 11/08/02 03:41 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You drag up a few carefully selected (by you!) reports to backup your argument? Now this IS a strawman arguement Shroomism had already provided numerous links to much stronger evidence that that which you give.

These are ones that I PERSONALLY RESEARCHED. Went to the physical sites, read the reports from both, sides talked to witnesses etc.

Does that make them carefully selected? This was not some google search as Alex falsely accuses (yet again).


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (11/09/02 01:01 AM)


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Offlinejohnnyfive
Burning withCircles!
Registered: 07/02/02
Posts: 886
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1037666 - 11/08/02 11:45 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Now there is quite obviously a UFO situation. Thousands of reports from all over the world come in all the time. Military workers, police officers, farmers, businessmen, housewives, children.. the UFO do not discriminate. There is plenty of video evidence, documented reports and the phenonema associated with UFO sightings (electrical disturbances etc)

So either this is some huge global conspiracy of secret technology that the governments are using for god knows what reason. Or these UFOs are actual spacecraft from outside our own world, and based on their speed and movement, one has to keep that option open. Or all these hundreds of thousands of people are delusional. Or something else, what do you think it is Swami?






Cool shroomism, let me begin here.

What are these things these Unidentifyed Flying Saucers?

It the most indigenious aircraft desgin, the all-wing aircraft (thats not the name, but its a design name) The all-wing aircraft is more efficant in push/pull, lift, and drag than any other aircraft. The Air/ground/planetary defense (or offense), of the new age or coming millenium. It works by the basis of a perpolusion engine never before seen, works on the basis of earth magnetic fields. Anti-gravitational technologies created LONG ago.

Why is it secret?

Many reasons, first they plan to use it agianst humanity. What a better way to unite a world under a world goverment than an crippliing fear of wars of the worlds. Think about it, why would humanity NEED a world goverment, in the first place. Goverments are only needed to protect agianst force, THATS IT! So never let the citizens EVER have peace (the united states hasn't left the state of war since the 1900's) or there no need for a goverment. Why would the world need a world goverment; well if a TRUE aggressive alien race bent on world domination, where to attack earth, than we would need a world goverment. Nations can't fight amongst each other anymore in the face of a alien invasion. Well since there are no aggressive alien races, a group of people diecide to make an alien invasion. Second, the new perpolusion engine in these vechicles would make human life sooo easy, and best of all theres NO POLLUTION. It would break oil monopolys.

Are they aliens?

No, i guess i kinda answered that one in the last paragraph. No there not aliens, (im not saying there ARE no aliens, just these ufo vehicales aren't aliens) they would like you to believe that (espeically if one day millions of billions of these vehicles start attacking shit with UNBEATABLE technology); so you would accept the NEW WORLD ORDER / ONE WORLD GOVERMENT.

Why don't goverments go ahead and tell them aliens (ufo's) exist, wouldn't that help the forging of the NWO, if theres more fear??

Well i believe that one day (right before the fake alien invasion happens) they will tell us, but only like in the style of the movie "Signs". Remember there money in fear too. If the goverment admitts theres E.Ts then the people will demand info on it. Its better to hint at it, and say "the masses aren't ready for such infomation", it reduces the people state to a child's like state of mind, that the goverments our parents to watch over us? Goverments are spending millions of dollars to Propagandize the public to death regarding this issue. This is what you
would call "MIND CONTROL AT IT'S FINEST"

Can these vehicles go the speed of light, and go outerspace?

I personally don't think so, there fast, yes there very fast. Only because of the a mix of anti-gravitational technology and push/pull of the north and south poles magnetic fields. I dought they can go the speed of light, or go outerspace, im sure they can really really high in the atmosphere, but not outerspace!


Conclusions:

I believe that once the invasion happens, LATER this same technology will be demed angel technologys, along with a tiny-implantation chip.


--------------------
And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1038083 - 11/09/02 03:04 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

These are ones that I PERSONALLY RESEARCHED. Went to the physical sites

You went to Area 51 and PERSONALLY RESEARCHED everything there?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Xlea321]
    #1038321 - 11/09/02 05:33 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

No, but when I lived in Las Vegas, I went up there on two overnight field trips with binoculars and camera before they expanded the security zone. Saw some unusual lights, but nothing to give the slightest indication that they were not military aircarft.

I talked a few times to Glenn Campbell (not the singer) who published an Area 51 newsletter called someting like the "Desert Rat" for several years. He initially believed that there was more to the story, but later changed his mind

Now this "proves" nothing except that I am not an airchair researcher.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
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Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Swami]
    #1038336 - 11/09/02 05:42 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I try to stay away from those inflatable chairs too...  I'd inevitably burn a hole in it somehow (incense maybe) or pop a hole in it somehow.  So I'm stuck with my armchair... oh well. :wink: 


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: UFOs and Scientific Research [Re: Sclorch]
    #1038341 - 11/09/02 05:46 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

No, not the chairs filled with air, but one that floats on air like a hovercraft. :smile:
 


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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