Chronic777 said:

Ok, i think we can all agree that the fundamental "goal" of spirituality is awakening, enlightenment, liberation from conflict/suffering. The main obstacle to waking up is the dualism of the mind judgements, when the mind sees unity/oneness there is no conflict, when there is no conflict life is bliss, simple joy of being.

All the sages dating back have hailed the wise who transcend the illusion of duality and live in oneness. Awakening is all about transcending duality.

This is from the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, a 5000 year old text that is concerned with technique not faith or principle, purely technique. It reads like a fusion between hinduism, buddhism, & taoism.

"The purity of other teachings is an impurity to us. In reality, know nothing as pure or impure"

This has the same message of Lao Tzu's teachings, beauty can only exist with uglyness, violence can only exist with non-violence, nothing can exist without its opposite.

The simplest way to ceasing innner conflict is to stop judging, its very easy, just stop judging right or wrong and your energy will sit still, and you will admire this perfect creation in all its beauty. Stop trying to solve and fix & mend & simply appreciate. Awareness does not judge it is simply aware.

The great teachers teach that awakening is not difficult, only the mind sees difficulty, all you need to do is drop everything & stop dividing existence, existence is one, be that one who doesnt judge and you become one with all as there is no longer any division!

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OK I will stop judging everything right now. Gee that was easy just like  you said.

redgreenvines said:

well don't you judge when you select which chair you will sit in?
don't you judge when you chose the moment to go at a 4 way stop?
don't you judge when you chose to stay in bed becasue it is too early to get busy?
I think the word judgement is getting a bad rap here.

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Im pretty sure you know what kind of judgement im talking about...

Giving up on judging in general creates less duality of good & bad, thus less tension, less sorrow, more acceptance, then more love & compassion. How can you be compassionate for something you judge as wrong? It is simply impossible, if you judge something as wrong already that is not compassion.

Judgement continues, but necessary judgement like choosing what chair to sit in, which route to take to work...much like when you work at getting rid of fear of death, you still wont jump off a ten story balcony but you have no unecessary fear & anxiety.

A big part of being aware is all about not jumping to judgements and being before the irrational mind, before the monkey mind, then the rational mind can be free of these animalstic tendencies of jealousy, anger, greed etc...im not saying destroy the mind im saying free your mind & to free your mind you must be free of the mind, you must be before it, observing it pass after you. This place before the mind does not judge, it lets all arise & pass, giving all space to breathe...

klimt said:

Chronic777:

I could not disagree more when you say the enlightened man is empty, free from all attachments, desires -- with that so goes all his emotions, dreams, ambitions, in short his life. You're right that is a life of nothingness. A drifting zombie with nothing to live for. Try to imagine this passionless man; when you look into his eyes, he just gives an empty stare, judges nothing, is never angry or excited; his life has no meaning; he might as well be dead.

To me I see spirituality and enlightenment as all about life. It is all about having a purpose; it is living life to your fullest creative self. It is as simple as that. I view conflict as a part of life. I view having desires and attachments as giving our lives meaning. I say we should avoid becoming nothing and empty. Sure that's peaceful but it makes life meaningless.

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klimt said:

I'm not that familiar with the Asian philosophies,

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I think that says it all.

Maybe you should read up on what enlightened/awakened masters have described enlightenment as, and how they say to get there, instead of relying on what your ego would like it to be...(im not having a go, just telling the truth, as you say you have no familiarity with asian philosophies yet you seem to think you know what enlightenment is!?)


Remember your not disagreeing with me your disagreeing with every single awakened sage that has ever lived, the way to enlightenment is becoming empty, this sounds nihlistic to your ego, what you don't realise is being empty is the most fullfilling experience a human being can have, only then can you be fullfilled. Your ego has to die. You have to die. Your ego is attachment & desire.

You seem to think becoming empty is like becoming nothing, you actually become everything. Ask yourself who is scared of becoming empty?

Maybe read a book about spiritual awakening from an author you like, as i dont think you'll listen to me...you just hear the word emptiness and your ego runs with its tail between its legs...

klimt said:

If you have no desire, if you have no attachment, you have no judgment -- there will be no bliss, joy, and especially no love. 

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klimt said:

I also find that they are the ones who don't accept death. To accept death, IMO, is to realize there is nothing after this life. Saying we go to heaven, hell, or become reincarnated is denying death.

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You are so wrong man, buddhist, hindu & taoist philosophy ALL teach you to face your death. In facing death you realise truth of life. Conscious dying is the most powerful tool to the human mind. When you fully face death and you are gone, then that is when you reach emptiness, you can say "i have accepted there is nothing after death" but you have not fully accepted this as if you had become this nothing you would have realised emptiness and wouldve realised what non desire & non attachment are about.

klimt said:

Chronic777:

I could not disagree more when you say the enlightened man is empty, free from all attachments, desires -- with that so goes all his emotions, dreams, ambitions, in short his life. You're right that is a life of nothingness. A drifting zombie with nothing to live for. Try to imagine this passionless man; when you look into his eyes, he just gives an empty stare, judges nothing, is never angry or excited; his life has no meaning; he might as well be dead.

To me I see spirituality and enlightenment as all about life. It is all about having a purpose; it is living life to your fullest creative self. It is as simple as that. I view conflict as a part of life. I view having desires and attachments as giving our lives meaning. I say we should avoid becoming nothing and empty. Sure that's peaceful but it makes life meaningless.

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This "emptiness" is very different from a zombified state. In fact, the person who resides in this "nothingness" is very alert and present in this moment. Remember that this is an attempt to convey something which can not be fully understood until experience. Once you are "there" you become detached, but not absent from the world. This does not mean you will become a sedintary, useless being. You actions will spring spontaneously from a place within you beyond your mind and body.

This is my understanding at least.