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TOOL concert is a spiritual experience *DELETED*
    #779144 -

Post deleted by Draig


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_________________________
My only experience with the cultivation of mushrooms is with edibles like shittake, portobellos and oysters.

Edited by Draig (08/10/02 09:53 PM)

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #779256 -

I will be having my Tool experience August 5th. I've been looking forward to it all year...
I could use the inspiration right about now.

I went to their King Crimson tour and it *was* a spiritual experience, without drugs. I felt connected to every other person within hearing range, one massive being floating in the air, temporarily transcending the weight of ego. It was a wonderful experience...

I hope they play 46&2 or Third Eye this time around.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience *DELETED* [Re: Adamist]
    #779291 -

Post deleted by Draig


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_________________________
My only experience with the cultivation of mushrooms is with edibles like shittake, portobellos and oysters.

Edited by Draig (08/10/02 09:47 PM)

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #779300 -

You got to witness Third Eye?

I want to see H., also...


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #779546 -

Even if you didn't get 46&2 you got an amazing setlist! H, Flood, Sober, Third Eye... What part of the concert did they play Third eye? it's not in your setlist.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #779726 -

I'll comment on Alex Grey. I received his 'Transfigurations' book for my birthday this month, to go with his 'Sacred Mirrors,' which are the coffee table books in the den. This week I had a signed print of Grey's 'Theologue' framed and hung in my meditation room.

On a different note: a few weeks ago a DJ on W-ZTA (Miami's ZETA) commented on some alleged comment made by one of the guys in Tool. Something like, 'since Hitler believed that he was doing the right thing by God, he is in heaven.' Now, I don't know Tool's music all that well (although it seems kinda 'dark' for my taste), and nothing about the personalities behind the music. But...if someone did make a comment like that, he's got to be a moral retard regardless of whatever musical aptitude he might possess, and definately needs a crash course in ethics. Do you know about this alleged comment?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #779923 -

I didn't hear that, but I disagree with what you said.

'since Hitler believed that he was doing the right thing by God, he is in heaven.'

I agree with that comment - I think it all comes down to what YOU believe, and the judgements you make against yourself. In short, I think we go wherever we think we should.


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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Revelation]
    #779929 -

i'm going to see Tool in Arkansas ...Jonesboro i think...this coming Tuesday. maybe i'll see you there....even if i don't recognize you...

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: ]
    #780008 -

When I saw Tool in concert, I was the only person in the whole place wearing a corduroy jacket with suede elbow patches. I was the "tooliest" looking person in there. I don't think anybody recognized though.

As far as the spiritual experience goes... I definitely helped myself to the sacrament.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Revelation]
    #780068 -

"Heaven" as a theological reference to the ontological condition of the human 'spirit' in Ultimate Communion/Union with God, is not a matter of cognition. It is not what an individual, that is, a separated and alienated created being THINKS that facilitates the Beatific Vision. It is a consonance, a similarity of a sanctified human spirit with the Divine Nature which is 'Agape' - selfless love. Since at the very least, by Jewish and Christian theology, '...no murderer has Eternal Life,' one is talking about a human agent who does not manifest the Divine Nature. A Hitler, or a Hitleresque character does not manifest the 'image and likeness' of the Divine Nature.

Moreover, the urgency of Christ's message to love God and one another, is grounded in the metaphysic that it is ONLY LOVE that 'gets into' Heaven, all else is barred. To the extent that one has remained identified only with his creatureliness, different ontological conditions await that 'soul.' Insofar as theosis has occurred, and the human 'spirit' has become Christlike, or in Islam, has 'submitted' to Allah, called "The Merciful, The Compassionate" - only that spirit will experience Beatitude.

Now, of course, you can come up with any idea you can imagine about God and salvation, but I dwell on these things daily as if my life depended upon it - because it does. I do not want to trifle with the most important aspect of my human existence its eternalization. Hitler was 'Hell on Earth.' He was about Holocaust - fire - destruction by fire. By the internal logic of any of the high religions, it is to fire that Hitler has committed himself - eternally.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #780096 -

I don't think that a souls purpose is to repent or suffer the consequences. I don't believe in eternal damnation in any way shape or form. That being said, I do believe that a soul can only experience true communion when it has become as god - ie, love. I suppose that contradicts what I said. Still, I don't believe that God is something that judges. God is no respector of persons. It's a game with only one possible outcome, and that is communion...it's just a question of how long it takes.


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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #780311 -

I've never heard of the quote but I could imagine them saying something like that... All I can say is that Tool's music can be looked at from many different angles. Their song "Stinkfist" for example, could be interpreted as being about anal-fisting, or it could be about desensitization. Here's part of "Jerk-Off" off of Opiate:

"Someone told me once
that there's a right and wrong,
and that punishment
would come to those
who dare to cross the line.

But it must not be true
for jerk-offs like you.
Maybe it takes longer to catch a total asshole.
but I'm tired of waiting.
Maybe it's just bullshit and I should play GOD,
and shoot you myself.
Because I'm tired of waiting.

Consequences dictate
our course of action
and it doesn't matter what's right.
It's only wrong if you get caught."


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Adamist]
    #780848 -

Thanks for the reply. We all go through these machinations about ethics, and Tool obviously has chosen to set the angst to music. There is always gonna be a Machiavellian 'the end justifies the means' mentality; as well as a Nietzschean 'beyond good or evil' trip - interpreted as intended or not.

The guy who robbed me of a bunch of cash some 20+ years ago (a friend of my brother) phoned me just before going to prison for 10 years. He engaged me in this good-evil relativity crap. He was robbing rich old women of their diamonds with a Crossman BB gun, so he could get enough money to go to chiropractic school - to help people and make an honest living. He did his time. He died a few years ago at about 40.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Adamist]
    #781336 -

i just have to add the rest of those lyrics to jerk-off. i think you left out the most important part...

Consequences dictate
our course of action
and it doesn't matter what's right.
It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD
and shoot you myself.
I'm very tired of waiting.

I should
kick you,
beat you,
fuck you,
and then shoot you in your fucking head.

imho the meaning of this song is the *opposite* of what most people would think of when they first hear it.. just like many of tool's songs (good example: eulogy, which many people think was about christ, i think is actually about l. ron hubbard... another good possibility is, maybe, a drill sergeant or some hypocritical authority figure?). in jerk-off when he says consequences dictate our course of action, i believe he is speaking about society in general.. and then, he says "IF consequences dictate my course of action, i should kill you myself"... meaning he's sick and tired of people behaving immorally and not trusting their heart, and he wants to do something about it, but because he has real morals he doesn't.

and the lyrics to one of my favorite songs of all time, off salival..

You Lied

Setting sun can't shine, now you're gone
Inside sleeping, my heart beating
You know that you tried to hide it
Couldn't you have said what you meant? Oh...

Time heals, time congeals around us
Endless hours of wasted moments
Understanding, not demanding
Your eyes tell what you feel inside

Setting sun can't shine, now you're gone
Inside sleeping, my heart beating
You know that you tried to hide it
Shouldn't you have said what you meant?

YOU LIED!


ok ok.. here's just one more, basically random lyric, another example of the light shining in the darkness..

Under a dead ohio sky,
Eleven has been and will be waiting,
Defending his light,
And wondering...
Where the hell have I been?
Sleeping, lost, and numb.
So glad that I have found you.
I am wide awake and heading home.

Hold your light,
Eleven.
Lead me through each gentle step by step
by inch by loaded memory.

I'll move to heal
As soon as pain allows so we can
Reunite and both move on together.

Hold your light,
Eleven. Lead me through each gentle step by step
By inch by loaded memory
'till one and one are one, eleven,
So glow, child, glow.

I'm heading back home.


tool's whole career has been perfectly executed, in my opinion.. they are all brilliant... the progression in their 10 year career, from opiate (1992) to lateralus (2002)... i still stand by my theory that they knew what they were doing from the very beginning.

someone else posted this quote from maynard...
"I think psychedelics play a major part in what we do, but having said that, I feel that if somebody's going to experiment with those things they really need to educate themselves about them. People just taking the chemicals and diving in without having any kind of preparation about what they're about to experience tend to have no frame of reference, so they're missing everything flying by and all these new perspectives. It's just a waste. They reach a little bit of spiritual enlightenment, but they end up going, 'Well, now I need that drug to get back there again.' The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug."




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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #781349 -

oh yah... and as for the hitler thing. i never heard that quote, but if you don't have the exact quote, it's possible the context was changed.

once again, a little tiny word:

"hitler believed he was doing the right thing by god. he is going to heaven."

"if hitler believed he was doing the right thing by god, he is going to heaven."

this second one sounds like something that they would say. i think belief, conscience, and sincerity are all very closely related. i seriously doubt hitler died with a clean conscience. he did commit suicide, after all. i'm pretty certain somewhere, perhaps deep down, perhaps not so deep down, he had many regrets and feelings of guilt. i don't think his whole being believed in what he was doing. he was a very tortured person, that's a well known fact.


tool took an unusual approach towards sharing their beliefs. instead of explaining them outright, they first associated with people, showed that they understood and shared their feelings... and then buried beneath that they had their true message.

"to ascend you must die
you must be crucified
for your sins and your lies...goodbye.."

dark, indeed, but for some people, that's just what they need...

and its really not all that different from that same old message we see televangelists spouting off on TV, begging for donations to their "cause". "though they have ears they do not hear, though they have eyes they do not see.."

personally i have no opinion on the afterlife at this point in my existence. all i know is body evolves mechanically, mind evolves consciously, and i know the direction i want to evolve in.


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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #782101 -

i went to that Alex Gray website but I don't know "The magic words". I even said please... http://www.alexgray.com

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #782202 -

Actually, that is a quote from "Munky" of Korn. Well, really the full quote is "I think this is true. Hitler went to heaven [if such a thing as heaven really exists]. He felt that what he did was right, and I think that if what you feel you're doing is right, in your heart, then you can't be wrong."

http://www.93x.com/listingsEntry.asp?ID=36018&PT=ROCKNEWS


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- xnevermore

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Amoeba665]
    #782609 -

i still stand by my theory that they knew what they were doing from the very beginning.
I agree.

Btw, I think Eulogy is about the ego... and Jimmy about the higher self / inner child.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience *DELETED* [Re: Amoeba665]
    #782800 -

Post deleted by Draig


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_________________________
My only experience with the cultivation of mushrooms is with edibles like shittake, portobellos and oysters.

Edited by Draig (07/28/02 07:26 PM)

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #783592 -

I just went to my first TOOL concert about a week ago. It was great! They are by far the best band in the whole freakin world!

I also made a remix of 3rd Eye, I'll post a link to download it when everything is ready. I think you all will like it very much.



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: xnevermore]
    #783745 -

Ahhhh! Thankyou for setting the record straight!!


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Revelation]
    #783777 -

With your notion, morality has no ontological basis in the Divine Nature. The 'Judgement' does not have to be anthropomorphized. The Egyptian papyrus in my study that depicts the weighing of the soul against a feather, illustrates the ancient belief in the moral stature of man and its appropriateness for Beatitude or perdition (to be devoured by the hellhound Maat in the papyrus).

It may well turn out that the Eternal Light of Unmitigated Reality will be incomprehensible ecstasy for the duly prepared individual, and the white-hot holocaust of Hell for the damned. The Judgement will then not hinge upon the anthropomorphized 'Old Bearded Guy in the Sky,' but upon what we did with our free will when we had the opportunity to exercise a free will. Whether or not Eternal Hell (if God created hell, it's not eternal, as there was a 'time' during which Hell did not exist) is eternal; or whether human awareness experiences Eternal Hell without liberation from it (when one is in Hell - it is experienced in its Eternity - which is different from indefinite duration, which is a temporal condition) are different concerns altogether.

Suffice to say, the afterlife conditions vary from person to person, and even rebirth is experienced as a form of Hell. Stan Grof's life work speaks to much of these metaphysical conditions through LSD psychotherapy and transpersonal states. John Lilly also spoke to the experienceable Hell-Realms. The great cultures of Eqypt, India and Greece, spanning many millennia can't all be wrong, while you are right, as far as I am concerned, but again, you can believe whatever you choose. Just remember that they all agree that how you live your life with relation to God (vertical relationship) and to others (horizontal relationship) determines what kind of being you are, and what Realm your being is consonant with when you discorporate.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #784347 -

i?ve seen tool 2 times by now... needless to say those were the best concerts i?ve been to... but i still don?t understand how some people can listen to tool, go to a show and claim to be big fans, without grasping one little piece of the message they are trying to get through... i was really annoyed by a bunch of angry fuckers giving the finger and the satan sign at maynard... i just loved it when maynard said "to those of you who have taken to much psychedelics along the ways of your life... take a deep breath, relax and go into yourself... you are at a tool show... well, at least some of you"
and yes, they definitely knew what they were doing since the beginning... i personally dont consider tool a band anymore... they are one of gods own masterpieces, for us to enjoy and appreciate... discuss and think about... and learn.. evolve... so we can get the fuck off this planet (man i love bill hicks)... everything just gets together when it comes to tool...


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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: In(di)go]
    #784370 -

oh, and for the record... i think that hitler is in heaven, too...
read my signature and you will perhaps understand what i mean...
have you ever come to think that what hitler did was necesarry for evolution? was necesarry for people to learn? to recognize good and bad? well, imo there is no good and bad... only love... we live in an illusion, and we need the good and bad in here to chose, to recognize where we come from and what we are... of course hitler got punished in some way... karma always gets you... but for me there is no such thing as hell... (hell as in eternal damnation apart from god) because there is no apart from god... only a part of god... we are inside of him, we are a part of him (her/it)... therefore when we die we leave this illusion and find ourselves with god again... i hope this made any sense for you guys...
namast


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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #785613 -

Markos, my first impression of Tool back from the lyrics he had quoted were indeed similar (a way for teens to vent their whiney angst), but my opinion has changed as I took both a closer look and watched their music evolve. What really intruiged me again was Alex Grey's most impressive artwork in for the cover art of their latest album, Lateralus. There are several transparent waxy sheets broadening out from flaming etheral eyes to chakras to the muscular system and finally the skeletal system. As you may know, Alex Grey has also authored a book with Ken Wilber, and you'll find his artwork connected with reputable journals like the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (do check out their latest journal on Sex, Spirituality, & Psychedelics for more of Grey's work).

There are many gnostic themes found in Tool's later work and Maynard's (the vocalist) other band A Perfect Circle that I appreciate. The songs conjure up powerful feelings and insights that are meaningful to me (but aren't a lifestyle, while they're powerful, it's not the way I want to feel ALL the time, my roots are in jam, bluegrass, and world music). I'd suggest just listening to the music before making any inferences to the meaning of the lyrics alone. The obvious interprepation of many of his lyrics (which teenagers abuse for their angsty reasons) generally have nothing to do with what Maynard is singing about at all.

And that's my rap on that since everyone else is leaving lyrics, here are some straightforward ones that everyone should appreciate.


Parabola

We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment,
We are choosing to be here right now. Hold on, stay inside
This holy reality, this holy experience.
Choosing to be here in

This body. This body holding me. Be my reminder here that I am not alone in
This body, this body holding me, feeling eternal
All this pain is an illusion.

Alive, I

In this holy reality, in this holy experience. Choosing to be here in

This body. This body holding me. Be my reminder here that I am not alone in
This body, this body holding me, feeling eternal
All this pain is an illusion.

Twirling round with this familiar parable.
Spinning, weaving round each new experience.
Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing.

This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember. We are eternal.
All this pain is an illusion.




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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #802724 -

Of right/wrong I believe the lesson is to move out of instances of duality. Rather than attempting to support your reality by anothers perception thereof or falling into judgement based on one's perception of lyrics or comments.

What one might view at the "satan sign", I'm guessing you're referring to the clasp of the ring and index finger with the extention of the other digits... for me this is a sign of the 3 circles forming union (Whole Male, Female, Divine), but that is me.. I know not anothers intentions.

"yes, they definitely knew what they were doing since the beginning... i personally dont consider tool a band anymore... they are one of gods own masterpieces, for us to enjoy and appreciate...discuss and think about... and learn.. evolve... so we can get the fuck off this planet"
(nods) I believe to achieve the wholely creative state of Life/Love/Understanding so that we as individuals in form can come to express this through our intended purpose. To then hold space for others to find their light. I think we're "gettin' the fuck off this planet" to come right back and help the other aspects. I use the music/artwork as a constant reminder... cause forgetting is the spiral down.
The music/vibration is becoming clearer as the consensus is cracking/opening antennas receiving more of the signal.
When I realize that there is no guitar or no individuals on stage is when I've understood.
Peace.


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The Woven World is all I see.
Put cloves in your weed and tell them its for the LSD.
.oO0 Listen to White Zombie 0Oo.

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