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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Todcasil]
    #2792657 -

Harvesting the material by hand is also an excellant way. Dealing with the black market or smuggling drugs accross borders just commercializes and belittles the experience. It also shows us in a bad light to society and law enforcement organizations because untaxed revenue is being made by someone. I realize that Amsterdam is very liberal in this respect, but almost nowhere else is.

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2792731 -

i definatly agree with your statement about commercializing the experience.  i would love to say that drug abusers and drug dealers with no real idea about what they are doing is the exception, but that would be a lie.  marketing in itself is a very vile thing if its done "properly", that is, if it makes someone do something even against their better judgement.  that is the true misery of commercializing drugs/drug use.  but if you use your better judement, you would find alternate ways to get your experiences...  but i remember as a younger man, finding whatever ways were available to try and reach something deeper.  being a shaman/healer/spritualist/ethnogenic apothecary/psychonaught or whatever can be a difficult path to follow as most people start young, and a lot of people just quit because of black market or commercial experiences when they realize the ugly truth behind the ignorance of that scene.

i dont think exlusive58 is going to stop what hes doing by anything said here, but perhaps hell change his ways like some of us have.  perhaps hell just continue along his own path?  the spirit is the best guide, not *insert username here*.  though we all are really trying to help.

peace
:kodama:


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2792911 -

Quote:
There are no plant drugs that are inherently spiritual.



What??? Are you kidding? I've had shrooms four times. Each time they were bought off of someone, and each time I had a spiritual trip. Same goes for weed, I've never grown any, but I often feel I can answer any philosophical question that comes up in my mind when I'm stoned. (and yes, i do like getting stoned, how does this relate to the subject?)
I think that when you talk about developping an alliance with the drug while growing it, theres some delusion in there. Its kinda like a placebo effect, you think that since YOU grew IT, IT will bring you an extra something. Ok i know people who like talkin to their plants, but come on now...

And also, purchasing a drug and purchasing a spiritual experience are quite different. Of course no drug can guarantee a spiritual experience, but I know that I am the kind of person that has a tendency to have one. Its *both* the shrooms and i that open "doors of conciousness", not the shrooms alone.
And whoever said I'm gonna be partying while i'm on my trip?? that would be kinda dumb...
And from what i've heard on the shroomery, its best not to take shrooms when experiencing a personal crisis, cuz it can lead you to having a bad trip.

BTW, I do not agree that crossing the border with shrooms or whatever drug on me "belittles" the experience!! Its like, WTF man! If i rather ingest my shrooms in my nice little country house in france where there's PLENTY of nature, with my best friend that is unfortunately not coming with me in amsterdam, its not "the law" that's going to ruin the trip for me in any way. I'll just hide the stuff in my underpants, and i'll be fine. I'd be stupid to feel bad just because i'm breaking some dumb law.
And also, I don't know if you know much about amsterdam, but when you buy shrooms in smart shops (which aren't the black market), they are taxed. Man i'd like to know where you're coming from when you say "it shows us in a bad light"...

I'm sorry Huehuecoyotl, i pretty much rejected everything you said, but IMO either your society has got you on a leash...or you are even younger than i am (in that case its all good i dont mean to offend you or anything)


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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: exclusive58]
    #2792921 -

What??? Are you kidding?
no he's not. You'll find plenty of people who haven't had the same experience with them as you.

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Todcasil]
    #2792927 -

I thought amanitas werent so psychedelic, and they give you more of a drunk feeling than anything else. I havent tried it though.


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Todcasil]
    #2792950 -

Ya thanx for the help yall!
I will continue on my own path, a path that has become richer and that will obviously be different from the one I would have taken had I not posted this. The spirit that will guide me on my trip will be influenced by your recommendations and opinions , believe it or not, you've had an influence on my life, and that is just crazy to think about, thanx again! :slider:

peace


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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: exclusive58]
    #2792954 -

IMHO when you ingest a psychedelic the set and setting is every thing. If you have grown your mushrooms and looked at the beauty of your own creation everyday and get somewhat attached to it and excited about it like any gardener does that whole feeling is brought into the trip when you ingest them. Sure its only a placebo thing, but a very spiritual placebo thing.

Take the opposite example. You meet a street dealer or someone at a rave scene who has some mushrooms that you buy... you dont carry the satisfaction of having grown them your self into the trip.

I've never eaten mushrooms I have grown myself, but I can only imagine how special that may be. I grew weed before, and I could look at those plants and study them in their glory every day, totally excited about the results... kicking back with your homegrown bud rolled up in a joint when the buds are done is truely satisfactory.


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: filthysock]
    #2792970 -

If you seek, you shall be found.

Dont look to hard, everything you need is were you are right now.


The mushroom is a extremely important part of life. It serves as a bridge. If you are of the correct establishment and vision, you will find your spirituality through the mushroom.

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: filthysock]
    #2792998 -

ya i hear you

its just that personally, simply the fact of getting shrooms causes enough excitement in me to create this "spiritual bond" you're talking about. but i definitely see how growing it makes it even stronger. so i conclude that growin shrooms creates a really strong spiritual placebo effect.

anyways, i think amanitas are quite common in norway, you should go shroom hunting in september. I remember when i found a couple of them in the woods, i was immediately deeply impresssed and overwhelmed by their presence, like my heart started beating faster and i guess i had an adrenaline rush or something...


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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: filthysock]
    #2793016 -

Sure its only a placebo thing, but a very spiritual placebo thing.
Sure, it may be false and delusional, but it is a spiritual falseness...  :rolleyes:

I've never eaten mushrooms I have grown myself, but I can only imagine how special that may be. I grew weed before, and I could look at those plants and study them in their glory every day, totally excited about the results... kicking back with your homegrown bud rolled up in a joint when the buds are done is truely satisfactory.
Cultivation is a joy distinct from ingestion. There is NO cross-over. I would wager (as always) that one could not tell the difference between self-grown and other- grown herb by the stone alone (the odor or taste may be influential). And one could definitely not tell the difference using a similar strain of mushrooms.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Swami]
    #2793085 -

God!  Swami, what are you?  Some sort of robot?!
You know, I'm starting to think you are only pointing out things and arguing them just for laughs!  Its ridiculous to say the least, especially what you commented on my last post in the thread about writing the s&p book.

Quote:
i think amanitas are quite common in norway, you should go shroom hunting in september.


they are very comon and  will most defenately go hunting for them this year :laugh: :mushroom2:


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Todcasil]
    #2793114 -

i just recently posted this but it bears relevance again, about amanitas, in reply to filthysock

here is my first amanita experience, a wonderful one, i would amend the last statement to say "i had experienced something sacred."

peace

http://www.shroomery.org/index/the/default/par/11970


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

Edited by Todcasil (06/14/04 06:01 PM)

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: filthysock]
    #2793369 -

I made no comment on Amanitas. Are you hallucinating?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Swami]
    #2793591 -

he was refering to my comment on them swami.

hence: Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Todcasil] in the front of his post.

as far as his last post, it was two different subjects, just not very well seperated. it was known to those for whom it was intended. there are multiple conversations going at once, remember.

peace


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: exclusive58]
    #2794641 -

Look, exclusive58 you can get upset all you want, BUT it is very easy to grow either San Pedro Cactus or Psilocybe Cubensis just do a Google search. It is also very cheap with high yield if you want to be purely practical about it. It also limits your exposure to drug dealers. When you deal with the black market you encourage the exploitation of others because that money is used to finance other things involving crime and terrorism. There is no denying if you get caught jumping a border while carrying you could ruin your life from the incarceration involved. You implied I was "young", that's funny because I wish I was 18 again, but I am 40 years old and half of those years have been spent in the study of shamanism and at least 10 have been spent actually practicing a shamanistic lifestyle. I have used mushrooms about 300 times and I have also used Ayahuasca, San pedro, Peyote, and Amanitas. All of the materials used were collected in the wild or grown by me, so I think I know my stuff when it comes to this subject. My first shroom experience was given to me by a friend with shamanic interests. I also don't take any risks that could jeopardize myself or my familly or job. There is also no denying that the experience you will have with a sacrament you have cared for with your own two hands will far outstrip any other. I decided to lose the whole partying scene years ago when I walked down that road and found hell waiting at the end of it. Peace.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (06/15/04 10:25 AM)

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Swami]
    #2794893 -

Post deleted by filthysock


--------------------
Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

Edited by filthysock (06/15/04 11:47 AM)

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Todcasil]
    #2794907 -

Todcasil said:
i just recently posted this but it bears relevance again, about amanitas, in reply to filthysock

here is my first amanita experience, a wonderful one, i would amend the last statement to say "i had experienced something sacred."

peace

http://www.shroomery.org/index/the/default/par/11970


:laugh:!!!  Thats the coolest trip report I've read in a long time!  WHat was the OBE like?


--------------------
Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: filthysock]
    #2797082 -

it was something like dancing with spirits... i remember just going straight up, and stopping some distance away from everything. i didnt bother to look down and i was just moving, rythmically, with everything else(everybody else?) there wasnt a lot of communication with anything, more like a communion through dance... very awesome, and strange to me indeed.

peace!
Casil


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Swami]
    #2797228 -

Placebo effect...NOT SO. When you learn about a plant and it's needs and you use your knowledge to the fullest to do your best in growing the plant it is much more potent than something that was grown in bulk from a commercial effort. This is a fact. Now you say where is the spiritual side of this. A shaman would say that a spiritual bond was formed while a biologist would say that you optimized conditions for growth. They are the same. The end result is what matters. By taking a spiritual approach, though, you have a greater respect for the organism you have brought into the world and will not use it frivolously or carelessly. In the end the visions you experience are a gift to you from the plant and from creation itself. This attitude alone fosters the conditions for a spiritual experience. If one can then put the insight gained to work in one's life in a practical manner one has undertaken a work of magic. The view of the spirit world as a separate thing from the material world is a gross oversimplification. No matter how much you deny it it is still there for those who wish to see. Just because you have not felt it does not mean others have not. To say that it doesn't exist because it can't be measured with scientific apparatus does not mean it cannot have a real effect in your life.

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Re: Spiritual drugs...? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2797576 -

No matter how much you deny it it is still there for those who wish to see.
Wish to deny? Where do you come up with this?

Maria Sabina, the Godmother of magic mushrooms, felt no difference between synthetic psilocybin and locally grown mushrooms.

To say that it doesn't exist because it can't be measured with scientific apparatus does not mean it cannot have a real effect in your life.
Where does scientific apparatus come into play? Is everyone hallucinating today? The scientific method works even on subjective terms. As stated, I will wager that not you (nor anyone else) can tell the difference between shrooms that you grew and shrooms grown by someone else. Very simple. No laboratory or white coat required.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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