Home | Community | Message Board


RVF Garden Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleDraig
Stranger
Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 41
TOOL concert is a spiritual experience *DELETED*
    #779144 - 07/26/02 09:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Draig


--------------------
_________________________
My only experience with the cultivation of mushrooms is with edibles like shittake, portobellos and oysters.


Edited by Draig (08/10/02 11:53 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #779256 - 07/26/02 10:40 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I will be having my Tool experience August 5th. I've been looking forward to it all year...
I could use the inspiration right about now.

I went to their King Crimson tour and it *was* a spiritual experience, without drugs. I felt connected to every other person within hearing range, one massive being floating in the air, temporarily transcending the weight of ego. It was a wonderful experience...

I hope they play 46&2 or Third Eye this time around.


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDraig
Stranger
Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 41
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience *DELETED* [Re: Adamist]
    #779291 - 07/26/02 10:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Draig


--------------------
_________________________
My only experience with the cultivation of mushrooms is with edibles like shittake, portobellos and oysters.


Edited by Draig (08/10/02 11:47 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #779300 - 07/26/02 11:05 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

You got to witness Third Eye?

I want to see H., also...


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,499
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #779546 - 07/27/02 06:08 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Even if you didn't get 46&2 you got an amazing setlist! H, Flood, Sober, Third Eye... What part of the concert did they play Third eye? it's not in your setlist.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 12,757
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 13 hours, 30 minutes
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #779726 - 07/27/02 09:03 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I'll comment on Alex Grey. I received his 'Transfigurations' book for my birthday this month, to go with his 'Sacred Mirrors,' which are the coffee table books in the den. This week I had a signed print of Grey's 'Theologue' framed and hung in my meditation room.

On a different note: a few weeks ago a DJ on W-ZTA (Miami's ZETA) commented on some alleged comment made by one of the guys in Tool. Something like, 'since Hitler believed that he was doing the right thing by God, he is in heaven.' Now, I don't know Tool's music all that well (although it seems kinda 'dark' for my taste), and nothing about the personalities behind the music. But...if someone did make a comment like that, he's got to be a moral retard regardless of whatever musical aptitude he might possess, and definately needs a crash course in ethics. Do you know about this alleged comment?


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRevelation

 User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,130
Loc: heart cave
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #779923 - 07/27/02 11:09 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't hear that, but I disagree with what you said.

'since Hitler believed that he was doing the right thing by God, he is in heaven.'

I agree with that comment - I think it all comes down to what YOU believe, and the judgements you make against yourself. In short, I think we go wherever we think we should.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Revelation]
    #779929 - 07/27/02 11:10 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i'm going to see Tool in Arkansas ...Jonesboro i think...this coming Tuesday. maybe i'll see you there....even if i don't recognize you...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: ]
    #780008 - 07/27/02 12:00 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

When I saw Tool in concert, I was the only person in the whole place wearing a corduroy jacket with suede elbow patches. I was the "tooliest" looking person in there. I don't think anybody recognized though.

As far as the spiritual experience goes... I definitely helped myself to the sacrament.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 12,757
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 13 hours, 30 minutes
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Revelation]
    #780068 - 07/27/02 12:32 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

"Heaven" as a theological reference to the ontological condition of the human 'spirit' in Ultimate Communion/Union with God, is not a matter of cognition. It is not what an individual, that is, a separated and alienated created being THINKS that facilitates the Beatific Vision. It is a consonance, a similarity of a sanctified human spirit with the Divine Nature which is 'Agape' - selfless love. Since at the very least, by Jewish and Christian theology, '...no murderer has Eternal Life,' one is talking about a human agent who does not manifest the Divine Nature. A Hitler, or a Hitleresque character does not manifest the 'image and likeness' of the Divine Nature.

Moreover, the urgency of Christ's message to love God and one another, is grounded in the metaphysic that it is ONLY LOVE that 'gets into' Heaven, all else is barred. To the extent that one has remained identified only with his creatureliness, different ontological conditions await that 'soul.' Insofar as theosis has occurred, and the human 'spirit' has become Christlike, or in Islam, has 'submitted' to Allah, called "The Merciful, The Compassionate" - only that spirit will experience Beatitude.

Now, of course, you can come up with any idea you can imagine about God and salvation, but I dwell on these things daily as if my life depended upon it - because it does. I do not want to trifle with the most important aspect of my human existence its eternalization. Hitler was 'Hell on Earth.' He was about Holocaust - fire - destruction by fire. By the internal logic of any of the high religions, it is to fire that Hitler has committed himself - eternally.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRevelation

 User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,130
Loc: heart cave
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #780096 - 07/27/02 12:46 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think that a souls purpose is to repent or suffer the consequences. I don't believe in eternal damnation in any way shape or form. That being said, I do believe that a soul can only experience true communion when it has become as god - ie, love. I suppose that contradicts what I said. Still, I don't believe that God is something that judges. God is no respector of persons. It's a game with only one possible outcome, and that is communion...it's just a question of how long it takes.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #780311 - 07/27/02 02:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I've never heard of the quote but I could imagine them saying something like that... All I can say is that Tool's music can be looked at from many different angles. Their song "Stinkfist" for example, could be interpreted as being about anal-fisting, or it could be about desensitization. Here's part of "Jerk-Off" off of Opiate:

"Someone told me once
that there's a right and wrong,
and that punishment
would come to those
who dare to cross the line.

But it must not be true
for jerk-offs like you.
Maybe it takes longer to catch a total asshole.
but I'm tired of waiting.
Maybe it's just bullshit and I should play GOD,
and shoot you myself.
Because I'm tired of waiting.

Consequences dictate
our course of action
and it doesn't matter what's right.
It's only wrong if you get caught."


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 12,757
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 13 hours, 30 minutes
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Adamist]
    #780848 - 07/27/02 08:15 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for the reply. We all go through these machinations about ethics, and Tool obviously has chosen to set the angst to music. There is always gonna be a Machiavellian 'the end justifies the means' mentality; as well as a Nietzschean 'beyond good or evil' trip - interpreted as intended or not.

The guy who robbed me of a bunch of cash some 20+ years ago (a friend of my brother) phoned me just before going to prison for 10 years. He engaged me in this good-evil relativity crap. He was robbing rich old women of their diamonds with a Crossman BB gun, so he could get enough money to go to chiropractic school - to help people and make an honest living. He did his time. He died a few years ago at about 40.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAmoeba665
strange
Registered: 05/24/00
Posts: 275
Loc: a hidden microutopia at t...
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Adamist]
    #781336 - 07/28/02 04:08 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i just have to add the rest of those lyrics to jerk-off. i think you left out the most important part...

Consequences dictate
our course of action
and it doesn't matter what's right.
It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD
and shoot you myself.
I'm very tired of waiting.

I should
kick you,
beat you,
fuck you,
and then shoot you in your fucking head.

imho the meaning of this song is the *opposite* of what most people would think of when they first hear it.. just like many of tool's songs (good example: eulogy, which many people think was about christ, i think is actually about l. ron hubbard... another good possibility is, maybe, a drill sergeant or some hypocritical authority figure?). in jerk-off when he says consequences dictate our course of action, i believe he is speaking about society in general.. and then, he says "IF consequences dictate my course of action, i should kill you myself"... meaning he's sick and tired of people behaving immorally and not trusting their heart, and he wants to do something about it, but because he has real morals he doesn't.

and the lyrics to one of my favorite songs of all time, off salival..

You Lied

Setting sun can't shine, now you're gone
Inside sleeping, my heart beating
You know that you tried to hide it
Couldn't you have said what you meant? Oh...

Time heals, time congeals around us
Endless hours of wasted moments
Understanding, not demanding
Your eyes tell what you feel inside

Setting sun can't shine, now you're gone
Inside sleeping, my heart beating
You know that you tried to hide it
Shouldn't you have said what you meant?

YOU LIED!


ok ok.. here's just one more, basically random lyric, another example of the light shining in the darkness..

Under a dead ohio sky,
Eleven has been and will be waiting,
Defending his light,
And wondering...
Where the hell have I been?
Sleeping, lost, and numb.
So glad that I have found you.
I am wide awake and heading home.

Hold your light,
Eleven.
Lead me through each gentle step by step
by inch by loaded memory.

I'll move to heal
As soon as pain allows so we can
Reunite and both move on together.

Hold your light,
Eleven. Lead me through each gentle step by step
By inch by loaded memory
'till one and one are one, eleven,
So glow, child, glow.

I'm heading back home.


tool's whole career has been perfectly executed, in my opinion.. they are all brilliant... the progression in their 10 year career, from opiate (1992) to lateralus (2002)... i still stand by my theory that they knew what they were doing from the very beginning.

someone else posted this quote from maynard...
"I think psychedelics play a major part in what we do, but having said that, I feel that if somebody's going to experiment with those things they really need to educate themselves about them. People just taking the chemicals and diving in without having any kind of preparation about what they're about to experience tend to have no frame of reference, so they're missing everything flying by and all these new perspectives. It's just a waste. They reach a little bit of spiritual enlightenment, but they end up going, 'Well, now I need that drug to get back there again.' The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug."




--------------------
---


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAmoeba665
strange
Registered: 05/24/00
Posts: 275
Loc: a hidden microutopia at t...
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #781349 - 07/28/02 04:25 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

oh yah... and as for the hitler thing. i never heard that quote, but if you don't have the exact quote, it's possible the context was changed.

once again, a little tiny word:

"hitler believed he was doing the right thing by god. he is going to heaven."

"if hitler believed he was doing the right thing by god, he is going to heaven."

this second one sounds like something that they would say. i think belief, conscience, and sincerity are all very closely related. i seriously doubt hitler died with a clean conscience. he did commit suicide, after all. i'm pretty certain somewhere, perhaps deep down, perhaps not so deep down, he had many regrets and feelings of guilt. i don't think his whole being believed in what he was doing. he was a very tortured person, that's a well known fact.


tool took an unusual approach towards sharing their beliefs. instead of explaining them outright, they first associated with people, showed that they understood and shared their feelings... and then buried beneath that they had their true message.

"to ascend you must die
you must be crucified
for your sins and your lies...goodbye.."

dark, indeed, but for some people, that's just what they need...

and its really not all that different from that same old message we see televangelists spouting off on TV, begging for donations to their "cause". "though they have ears they do not hear, though they have eyes they do not see.."

personally i have no opinion on the afterlife at this point in my existence. all i know is body evolves mechanically, mind evolves consciously, and i know the direction i want to evolve in.


--------------------
---


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #782101 - 07/28/02 02:07 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i went to that Alex Gray website but I don't know "The magic words". I even said please... http://www.alexgray.com


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblexnevermore
? Ω?

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 282
Loc: The Twilight Zone
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #782202 - 07/28/02 03:00 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, that is a quote from "Munky" of Korn. Well, really the full quote is "I think this is true. Hitler went to heaven [if such a thing as heaven really exists]. He felt that what he did was right, and I think that if what you feel you're doing is right, in your heart, then you can't be wrong."

http://www.93x.com/listingsEntry.asp?ID=36018&PT=ROCKNEWS


--------------------
- xnevermore


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Amoeba665]
    #782609 - 07/28/02 07:26 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i still stand by my theory that they knew what they were doing from the very beginning.
I agree.

Btw, I think Eulogy is about the ego... and Jimmy about the higher self / inner child.


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDraig
Stranger
Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 41
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience *DELETED* [Re: Amoeba665]
    #782800 - 07/28/02 09:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Draig


--------------------
_________________________
My only experience with the cultivation of mushrooms is with edibles like shittake, portobellos and oysters.


Edited by Draig (07/28/02 09:26 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: TOOL concert is a spiritual experience [Re: Draig]
    #783592 - 07/29/02 09:42 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I just went to my first TOOL concert about a week ago. It was great! They are by far the best band in the whole freakin world!

I also made a remix of 3rd Eye, I'll post a link to download it when everything is ready. I think you all will like it very much.



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Christian Spiritual Experiences
( 1 2 all )
LordPeter 2,757 23 12/11/01 08:44 AM
by LOBO
* Spiritual experiences at concerts Metasyn 1,788 15 09/17/02 09:25 AM
by In(di)go
* Had a spiritual experience last night on alcohol Anonymous 625 5 08/10/04 10:36 PM
by Shroomism
* Drugs are not the be all/end all to spiritual experience
( 1 2 3 all )
Huehuecoyotl 2,673 43 11/27/04 06:22 PM
by deff
* personal spiritual experiences & objectivity
( 1 2 all )
Bridgeburner 2,084 29 07/13/08 11:24 PM
by InnerStillness
* Shroomery ~ Spiritual Experience?
( 1 2 all )
Peaceful_Nomad 2,257 21 08/03/02 09:44 AM
by frogsheath
* The spiritual experience dest11 670 10 04/07/06 06:07 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Try to convey spiritual insight or relate a spiritual experience with only smileys
( 1 2 all )
Lion 1,467 22 10/20/07 07:17 PM
by AlteredAgain

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
2,705 topic views. 4 members, 7 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Azarius
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.083 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.