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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Do mushrooms choose people?
    #799313 - 08/06/02 07:12 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Maria Sabina said that the sacred mushrooms didn't reveal their secrets to everyone. Those who approached them a lack of humility and respect would be shown nothing. This seems to be being echoed in the posts of poor swami. His most profound experience was seeing a tree melt...and now everytime he takes mushrooms he has heart problems. With psilocybin being one of the least toxic drugs in existence (around 400 places lower than aspirin in the toxicity league) and with no known history of it ever causing heart problems, is this perhaps simply the mushrooms way of rejecting Swami?

Meanwhile the rest of us who approach them with an open mind, humility and love have deeply rewarding and profound spiritual experiences. Perhaps there is wisdom in Maria Sabinas words.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #799323 - 08/06/02 07:21 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: World Spirit]
    #799334 - 08/06/02 07:26 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

No insult. Swami has said all these things and insisted mushrooms are meaningless hallucinations. Perhaps Maria Sabina had the answer for why he feels this way.


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InvisiblePeaceful_Nomad
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #799504 - 08/06/02 09:14 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

In reply to:

Perhaps there is wisdom in Maria Sabinas words.





From The Ones that Stain Blue

"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible, and there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints. A world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of it?s own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way that I can understand. I ask them and they answer me. When I return from the trip that I have taken with them, I tell what they have told me and what they have shown me. "

~ Mazatec Shaman Maria Sabina

Infinite Clockwork

"The secrets that the mushrooms revealed to me are enclosed in a big Book that they showed me and that is found in a region very far away from their world, a great Book. They gave it to me when Ana Mar?a fell ill ... and seemed almost near death. So I decided to return again to the teo-nan?catl. I took many, many more than I had ever taken before: thirty plus thirty. I loved my sister and was ready to do anything, even to make a very long trip, just to save her.

I was sitting in front of her with my body, but my soul was entering the world of the teo-nan?catl and was seeing the same landscape that it had seen many other times, then landscapes that it had never seen because the great number of mushrooms had taken me into the deepest of the depths of that world. I was going ahead until, at one point, a duende, a spirit, came toward me. He asked a strange question: ?But what do you wish to become, you, Mar?a Sabina??

I answered him, without knowing, that I wished to become a saint. Then the spirit smiled, and immediately he had in his hands something that he did not have before, and it was a big Book with many written pages. ?Here,? he said. ?I am giving you this Book so that you can do your work better and help people who need help and know the secrets of the world where everything is known.?

I thumbed through the leaves of the Book, many written pages, and I thought that unfortunately I did not know how to read. I had never learned, and therefore that would not have been of any use to me. Suddenly, I realised I was reading and understood all that was written in the Book and that I became as though richer, wiser, and that moment I learned millions of things. I learned and learned ... I looked for the herbs that the Book had indicated to me, and I did exactly what I had learned from the Book. And also Ana Mar?a got well.

I didn?t need to see the Book again because I had learned everything that was inside it. But I again saw the spirit that gave it to me and other spirits and other landscapes; and I saw, close by, the sun and the moon because the more you go inside the world of teo-nan?catl, the more things are seen. And you also see our past and our future, which are there together as a single thing already achieved, already happened. So I saw the entire life of my son Aurelio and his death and the face and the name of the man that was to kill him and the dagger with which he was going to kill him because everything had already been accomplished. The murder had already been committed, and it was useless for me to say to my son that he should look out because they would kill him, because there was nothing to say. They would kill him, and that was it. And I saw other deaths and other murders and people who were lost - no one knew where they were - and I alone could see. And I saw stolen horses and ancient buried cities, the existence of which was unknown, and they were going to be brought to light.

Millions of things I saw and I knew. I knew and saw God: an immense clock that ticks, the spheres that go slowly around, and inside the stars, the earth, the entire universe, the day and the night, the cry and the smile, the happiness and the pain. He who knows to the end of the secret of the ?teo-nan?catl? can even see that infinite clockwork."

The Mazatec Wise Woman, Maria Sabina (1894-1985 )

For those who have used the mushroom in a sacred manner, the above should
seem familiar. Large doses of psilocybin have a way of removing human barriers
and revealing the Light and Darkness that comprises the universe, which exists
within each and every life form on this planet.

Some try to explain the Light as God and the Darkness as Satan. Biblical text
often relates the Light as being of God and the Darkness being of Satan. I would
venture to guess other ancient theological texts have similarities to the latter
example.

I believe we hold all the answers, the truths to life?s mysteries, within ourselves.
What would this world be like if we utilized all the money spent on space
exploration and diverted it to a psychonaut program ~ the deep journey within to
explore what we already know, yet is blocked by millenia of evolution and fear?

Peace to Everyone,

Peaceful Nomad










--------------------


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #799751 - 08/06/02 11:36 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Maria Sabina said that the sacred mushrooms didn't reveal their secrets to everyone. Those who approached them a lack of humility and respect would be shown nothing.

Is Maria Sabina suggesting psychadelic mushrooms have a consciousness, let alone secrets to tell us? That is saying mushrooms can think and make decisions like an intelligent life form. I'm guessing she was tripping when she said this...

This seems to be being echoed in the posts of poor swami. His most profound experience was seeing a tree melt...

The only thing you know about him is what he sold you, dumbfuck.*

Meanwhile the rest of us who approach them with an open mind, humility and love have deeply rewarding and profound spiritual experiences.

Having read many of Swami's posts, I have to say he is a very open minded person who doesn't agree or believe everything he hears before investigating it for himself first. I bet that would go the same for a mushroom trip...if Swami talked to God on shrooms, he'd be like "did I really talk to Him or did I sell my self a load of shit?" While on the other hand you would probably go tell all your friend's God sent you a message and you wouldn't even question why.

*Modified Tool lyric


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: chodamunky]
    #799874 - 08/06/02 12:32 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Having read many of Swami's posts, I have to say he is a very open minded person

You wanna get out more son.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: chodamunky]
    #799883 - 08/06/02 12:35 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Is Maria Sabina suggesting psychadelic mushrooms have a consciousness, let alone secrets to tell us? That is saying mushrooms can think and make decisions like an intelligent life form. I'm guessing she was tripping when she said this...

Do you even know who Maria Sabina is without doing a google search? Be honest now...

You sound about 10 years old. Are you another one who'se never seen anything more than melting trees? Bitter about it?

Jeez, I remember this board before swami ruined it with his constant bullshit and drove all the sensitive people away. Now we're just left with the absolute dregs like this kid *

*modified lennon lyric


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (08/06/02 12:47 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #799892 - 08/06/02 12:40 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I think that to gain the full effect of a mushroom journey one must approach it with respect and an open heart.


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #799943 - 08/06/02 01:04 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I have noticed you have a thing against Swami, always trying to diss him at every chance you get. If you think he ruined the message board then why are you still here? I personally think Swami contributes a great deal to this board. Look at his Random Acts Of Kindness thread he started. Everyone enjoyed that one.

Now to your queries:

Do you even know who Maria Sabina is without doing a google search? Be honest now...

Ok I will be honest, I have no fooken clue who she is, I didn't even do a Google search. I just said that to spite you


You sound about 10 years old. Are you another one who'se never seen anything more than melting trees? Bitter about it?

Why exactly do I sound ten years old? Cause I don't agree with your opinion I have to be immature?



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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: chodamunky]
    #799947 - 08/06/02 01:06 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Is Maria Sabina suggesting psychadelic mushrooms have a consciousness, let alone secrets to tell us? That is saying mushrooms can think and make decisions like an intelligent life form. I'm guessing she was tripping when she said this...

I don't think she is saying they are intelligent...Some people look at a Van Gough and see clouds, the sky, and grass and others look at it and see a message, a meaning. It depends on how much you want to see, how much you are open to changing your mind.

Having read many of Swami's posts, I have to say he is a very open minded person who doesn't agree or believe everything he hears before investigating it for himself first. I bet that would go the same for a mushroom trip...if Swami talked to God on shrooms, he'd be like "did I really talk to Him or did I sell my self a load of shit?" While on the other hand you would probably go tell all your friend's God sent you a message and you wouldn't even question why.

I think you are pretending to know much that you don't...I mean this as someone who cares, not as a flame...it is unwise to do that. I hope you don't get offended by that. Peace.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


Edited by Shroomalicious (08/06/02 01:07 PM)


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #799969 - 08/06/02 01:20 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Maria Sabina said that the sacred mushrooms didn't reveal their secrets to everyone. Those who approached them a lack of humility and respect would be shown nothing. This seems to be being echoed in the posts of poor swami.

You are saying that Swami is unenlightened, right? That is a mighty big judgement. Are you sure you know enough about the situation to say that?

With psilocybin being one of the least toxic drugs in existence (around 400 places lower than aspirin in the toxicity league) and with no known history of it ever causing heart problems, is this perhaps simply the mushrooms way of rejecting Swami?

Yes, it could be but we don't know that. Chemicals have a funny way of reacting with different bodies, every time my friend eats onions she swells and must go to the hospital, and yet onions are not toxic. I would say that unless you have a 100% understanding of Swami's body chemicals and a 100% understanding of Mushroom's that you are making a big judgement on something that you are perhaps not knowledgeable enough to make.

I don't know why 100% of the people who approach Mushroom's are not given the same type of experience. I have ideas...different people need to see different things, different consciousnesses will only reveal certain things, some people are not open enought to change their minds, etc.

However, I am not so arrogant to believe that they don't because I am so cool, and I am so right and they are so stupid and wrong.

I hope you understand that I only want to tell you what I think and not at all to flame you.


--------------------
Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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OfflineChubbSubb
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #800027 - 08/06/02 01:47 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I think that to gain the full effect of a mushroom journey one must approach it with respect and an open heart.

Right on, I highly agree Shroomism. You must always RESPECT the sacred mushroom, that is the key factor
Peace, Trev


--------------------
Those who know do not speak.
Those who speak do not know.


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OfflineDanimal
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #805411 - 08/08/02 07:47 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

First off, the header of this thread is quite deceiving. It doesn?t sound like you are truly interested in people?s opinions/ideas concerning mushrooms choosing people(I don?t think they do, I will expound later), instead you seem to be trying to rally people against swami.

His most profound experience was seeing a tree melt...and now everytime he takes mushrooms he has heart problems.
Perhaps I haven?t dug through enough posts, but since officially joining this forum a few months back and following every thread to the best of my ability, I can?t recall when Swami said that his most profound/life changing/incredible experience was seeing a tree melt. Seeing as he?s probably been tripping for longer than I?ve been alive two times over, I would seriously be surprised if that was the extent of his experiences. As well, I do remember Swami posting a thread about taking a dose and it not being as pleasurable as previous experiences and he was contemplating stopping.

Meanwhile the rest of us who approach them with an open mind, humility and love have deeply rewarding and profound spiritual experiences. Perhaps there is wisdom in Maria Sabinas words.

Let?s review what you have taken from these trips with an ?open mind, humility and love??

Do you even know who Maria Sabina is without doing a google search? Be honest now...
Arrogance

You sound about 10 years old. Are you another one who'se never seen anything more than melting trees? Bitter about it?
Namecalling, apparent ability to read mind and know people?s ages.

Jeez, I remember this board before swami ruined it with his constant bullshit and drove all the sensitive people away.
If you consider questioning widely held beliefs, ideas, philosophies and responding with personal experiences, adventures, knowledge, etc. as bullshit, than you are correct. Swami himself sounds like a very sensitive person however that may be a cover for his true cold, heartless, hateful persona. Thank you for the heads-up, seeing as I consider myself a sensitive person, I?ll be ready to run away when Swami comes to burn me at the stake with logic and reasoning!

You see to have a very strong distaste for Swami and do everything in your power to cast him down along with anyone else who disagrees with you. Since I am not an experienced mushroom user(1 trip to date), perhaps I too will be enlightened with these profound qualities in the near future.

As promised, I will answer the original header. Your question sounds a bit too ?many are called, few are chosen?(that how it goes?) and I don?t see how a mushroom can choose a person[to reveal its secret]. As well, I?m curious how the choosing process works, is it sort of like a lotto? If that is how it works, would it also follow that the more shrooms you take, the better your chances of winning are? ?You can?t win if you don?t trip!?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Danimal]
    #805600 - 08/08/02 09:10 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

You see to have a very strong distaste for Swami and do everything in your power to cast him down along with anyone else who disagrees with you.

No problem with swami, i don't know the kid. I have a problem with people coming into threads with a closed mind and refusal to contemplate the possibility they could be wrong. Then turning nasty when you call them on their errors. You seem to see only what you wish to see. (Ignoring the post where the kid calls me a dumbfuck, and concentrating on my very mild response for example..). Perhaps you see yourself in swami and this is why he appeals to you so much.

Enlightenment? I don't hold out much hope for you without a radical opening of your mind. I'd forget all about mushrooms and concentrate on developing your character first. Take care.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (08/08/02 09:12 PM)


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: Xlea321]
    #807136 - 08/09/02 01:32 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

hey alex, I have reviewed my post when I called you "dumbfuck" by using Tool's lyrics and I understand that's probably the one single thing that would of pissed you off about my post (hence calling me 10 years old). I take that back and am sorry for cussing at ya, I should of left out that word. Anyhow, hope we can still be reasonable and respectful to each other even though our opinions differ. Once again my apologies, tata.


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OfflineViBrAnT
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: chodamunky]
    #808153 - 08/10/02 02:56 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

ya im sorry to swami, i can see where you are coming from now. you said long ago that you had undertaken the spiritual journey and found nothing. i kinda get the feeling that mybe you saw it and rejected it, just speculating though.


--------------------
" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "




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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: chodamunky]
    #808240 - 08/10/02 05:35 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

No problem choda


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisiblethePatient
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: chodamunky]
    #809463 - 08/10/02 06:55 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Is Maria Sabina suggesting psychadelic mushrooms have a consciousness, let alone secrets to tell us? That is saying mushrooms can think and make decisions like an intelligent life form. I'm guessing she was tripping when she said this...

Consciousness? **shrugs** Maybe, who am i to tell you different? Terrance Mckenna brought about the idea that the mushroom is an Alien Entity. He said it was absurd that we expect to find an Alien life form that we can communicate with. But the mushrooms, when ingested communicates with us through our nervous system. Whether this is true or not, no one is sure. But something about it "rings home". He ALSO said, this may not be true, and provided an alternate theory.

A quote from Terrance : "I require the nervous system of a mammal. Do you have one handy?"

The only thing you know about him is what he sold you, dumbfuck.*

LOL. you funny, funny man.



--------------------
T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: thePatient]
    #809518 - 08/10/02 07:23 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

But the mushrooms, when ingested communicates with us through our nervous system.

whoa, that's some crazy ass food for my brain on this late evening! Mushrooms intentionally communicating with us through our nervous system? Whether that's true or not, it's a wild theory. Now McKenna DEFINATELY must of been tripping when he thought that up hehe


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Do mushrooms choose people? [Re: thePatient]
    #809598 - 08/10/02 08:06 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

But the mushrooms, when ingested communicates with us through our nervous system

This is what we call pseudoscience.
I'll just breakdown ONE aspect of why this is the case.
Communication requires a code. A code requires an alphabet. Last time I checked, you needed at least a handful of characters/letters to form an alphabet. Mushrooms contain psilocybin, psilocin (it's direct analog), and sometimes baeocystin, so I guess you could argue that mushrooms have an alphabet of THREE characters (give or take a character; I might have left one out). I don't think the mushrooms would have anything intelligent to say with such a primitive alphabet.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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