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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002)
    #517165 - 01/11/02 09:15 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

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OfflineTannis
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: World Spirit]
    #517395 - 01/11/02 02:28 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I disagree with the "hype" that shrooms are somehow "special" or have been put here by aliens or something.

Shrooms affect certain areas of the brain and speed/open them up---while they slow/shut down others. This effect on the brain and so our perception of what we see, is what makes shrooms seem so magical / spiritual / by design.

I don't think the shrooms are special. I think the person who takes them and sees things in a different way due to altered perceptions---is "special". He's been made special by this perceptual change. It's really a shift in focus that we don't do in normal everyday life.

In order to stay focused in life and function in society we have something like a "filter" at the base of the brain. When psilocybin reaches this area it starts to shut it down and we begin to see things we normally miss and to see them in a different way. I'm not talking about hallucinations here--just what is around us that we normally miss.

This is just my opinion and probably someone will post something completely different. For those of you that disagree---I mean no offense to your "little brothers".....

.....Tannis


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: Tannis]
    #517472 - 01/11/02 03:43 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

It seems like you're saying that mushrooms aren't special because you know how they work. You do know how they work, but that doesn't make them any less special. I think they're special for doing what they do.
I have a question though.

Are psilocybe spores the ONLY type of mushroom spores that can survive in outer space?


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Offlinecapslock
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: Tannis]
    #517782 - 01/11/02 09:51 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

You are right about mushrooms not being special (by design). Are banana peels or any other drug special too just because they change what you experience? Of course not. People, mushrooms or any other life on this planet or in the universe are not special. Every plant or animal has distinctive characteristics. The mushrooms that interact with serotonin are no more or less "by design" than the ones that have cancer fighting properties. The basic processes involved in evolution have become well understood in the last 100 years. The rich complexity and diversity of life is caused by the mechanisms of evolution which are 1) mutation, which over long periods of time causes isolated populations to speciate 2) catastrophe, such as asteroids hitting the earth which can easily wipe out 90% of species making room for other species 3) selection of mates (in sexual reproducing species) + some other stuff i can't remember right now. Also, what is often perceived as a direction, trend, or progress in evolution is merely expanding and contracting variation of species over time. In fact man or mushroom are not "higher" in any sense of the word despite the fact that many religions, spiritual people, secular thinkers would like to believe otherwise so that they can reinforce the false hierarchies that they have built up over the ages. We should not be surprised that plant molecules can shake hands with people's brain and body molecules since all life comes from DNA. Scientists study the DNA of the simplist organisms like yeast which we have much DNA in common with so that they can unravel how life processes work so we can fight diesease. Mushrooms are special in some other ways however. For example they can help some people have a good time and sometimes have some profound personal realizations, and they unleash the brain's imaginative abilities which can be good if you have a good handle on how this relates to reality or it can be bad if you start to mistake your own fiction for fact.

Fred


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: capslock]
    #517798 - 01/11/02 10:03 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

So you're saying everything is relative. Agreed.

Since I like to trip, magic mushrooms are more "special" to me than any other fungi.

Sheesh.


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OfflineTraveller
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: World Spirit]
    #518000 - 01/12/02 01:25 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

no i don't believe they are here by design. It seems quite possible to me though that if some remarkably intelligent, tough and capable forest dwelling apes found some (mushies)and ate them that some would be afraid (like my friends dog, and some of my friends) but that a few would really like them and start questioning things around them. like perhaps the big question of "what the fuck is going on?"and perhaps that could trigger the question "what am I?", you know the typical staring and poking your own arm or something spinning out at your own existence...

our ancestors would have tried every plant around to see if it was edible, they would have definately eaten mushrooms...couldn't the mushies have something to do with the evolution of human consciousness? I don't know.


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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: capslock]
    #518007 - 01/12/02 01:28 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

really, ALL life comes from DNA? even plants, fungus, viruses, bacteria? I only knew that all animals have DNA...so do plants and the others also have genes and chromosomes and stuff? i guess maybe they must since they reproduce....


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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: Traveller]
    #518008 - 01/12/02 01:30 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

All drugs alter your brain. It is all in your brain. If you had the power, you could probably do it yourself, or with a machine. Not saying that its accidental that there are ANY mind altering substances, maybe its just a guide. I dunno i was mainly replying to the comments, but eh. I think things happen as they are planned, and should, but the rules can always be bent.


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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: World Spirit]
    #518227 - 01/12/02 07:15 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Mushrooms are just a catalyst for opening doorways of perception in the individual's mind. Its up to the person how they integrate their experience, and whether they choose to go through the open doors or not.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: ]
    #518252 - 01/12/02 08:37 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: World Spirit]
    #518275 - 01/12/02 09:10 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah man I feel you
What I was trying to say is that it is up to the person how far they let the mushroom take them.


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: ]
    #518291 - 01/12/02 09:35 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: World Spirit]
    #519362 - 01/13/02 01:39 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

You are receiving a lot of scientific materialism for replies. Science (from the Latin 'scientia,' knowledge) supplies 'hows,' not 'whys.' Why answers are the province of philosophy and religion. The religious answer to your question is that everything is by design. Materialists might respond with more how answers: about 'random' mutations, probability, chaos theory, etc. The religious mind is a mentality that takes the position that it is ALL by design, and the set all includes mushrooms.

The late great historian/philosopher of religion Mircea Eliade wrote about the 'superabundant real.' There are 'points,' into which space-time is "rent," and Ultimate Reality manifests. The Incarnation of Christ into the human Jesus was condidered such an event, as was the Mercy Seat in the Holy of Holies where the Indwelling Presence of God manifested. In less powerful theophanies, sacraments are considered along these lines. Not just the Host in the Catholic Liturgy, or the Host and Wine 'soup' in Orthodoxy, but any sacrament in any religion. The Peyote of the Peyotist or the Mushroom to many are also sacramental, and represent a 'special substance' of space-time because it "occasions" an encounter with Superabundant Reality - with the Reality of God.

Whether the original 'shewbread' of the Holy of Holies, or the special bread of the original Covenant with Jesus was psychoactive (e.g., ergot laden) is speculative, but the power of faith invests common bread and wine with meaning, and meaning in one's universe opens doors. The heightening effects of the mushroom can serve to heighten one's existing faith, or through awe and wonder give rise to faith in God. In either case, it serves as a sacrament and is thereby infused with meaning and specialness. This experience characterizes a, strictly speaking, religious mentality for those of us who understand these things and are in agreement. After all, to an unbeliever in a church, wine is only wine - mundane and profane. To a believer wine is a sacrament - a vehicle for the Sacred.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #519372 - 01/13/02 01:47 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

wise words


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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: Learyfan]
    #520395 - 01/14/02 01:25 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Don't know about whether the spores can survive in space.

When I say that I don't believe shrooms are "special" I mean that they are just a substance that alters my perceptual abilities. What I do with that altered perception is up to me.

When I say that the person taking them is "special" what I mean is that I believe man was destined to be the dominant race. By that I mean that if a goat eats shrooms growing in a field we are not headed for "planet of the goats" and if the shrooms were somehow "special" carrying a message- anything consuming them would "get their message" and start to change.

...Tannis

Just imagine. What would it be like...????
Planet of the Goats
Planet of the Voles
Planet of the Sheep
Planet of the ............


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OfflineTannis
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: capslock]
    #520397 - 01/14/02 01:27 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Let it be known!
I agree with Fred!

.....Tannis


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OfflineTannis
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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #520407 - 01/14/02 01:36 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I do believe.

A sacrement is whatever I set apart for special use...

.....Tannis


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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: Tannis]
    #520867 - 01/14/02 09:47 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

The fact is that earth always has been a "Planet of the Bacteria". The vast majority of biomass on our little planet is bacteria. And the dominant group of bacteria is parasites. Planet of Parasites!!! Sounds like a scifi B flick but it is no fiction. Most of your biomass is bacteria-not a pleasent thought but actually we need them to live so be nice to them.
In any significant measurable criteria bacteria wins. They have been around billions of years while we have been around a few hundred thousand years if that. They are the most numerous and most successful in reproducing themselves. They have survived several major catastrophes (we would have been be wiped out by the major catastrophes of the earth's history and we likely will be wiped out leaving bacteria to go about their buisiness). They can adapt to changing environments and mutate way faster than we can. We make antibiotics to try to stop them but we are running out of ones that work since they have developed defenses to most antibiotics in only a few decades. They exist in the most extreme heat and cold on the planet while we are slaves to our suntan lotion and winter coats. Their "keep thing simple" strategy has worked well for a long time now while our big brains which require lots of heat has only been around for a little while. BTW there are hominids in the fossil record that had even bigger brains than us but that are now extinct. Big brains are inefficient. Geez we've even lost our "fur" or hairiness . Hey, don't get me wrong i like being human-but lets not be so smug about it ok?

Yes, spores and other bacteria can survive in space. That comets or asteroids seeded or helped seed the planet is a valid scientific theory and actually our leading theory. We are children of the stars and are essentially made from stardust. This is the beautiful true nature of our extraterestrial origins. No kooky alien races or evolution into higher dimensions or planet to planet phone fax machines required.

FRED


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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: capslock]
    #521061 - 01/15/02 12:38 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

parasite: An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

could we not consider ourselves parasites? we grow, feed, and shelter ourselves on the largest organism we know, the earth. some may say the earth is not an organism because it doesn't consist of various living organs which work mutually to keep the earth sustained. i believe an organism is any living entity. and i believe the earth is a living entity. it seems as though humans are simply using up all the resources of this earth while contributing nothing to it. it is just a question of how much longer we can leech off this planet before we destroy it or end up destroying ourselves.

as far as the role of mushrooms. i am in agreement with those who believe they are just another creation in existence and that there is nothing that would make them any more special than say a blue lilac. for although they may affect humans by 'opening our eyes,' they may be extremely toxic to another living being and kill them. why are they here you ask? they are not here for any reason in particular. they are here for the same reasons we all are here, why everything you see around you is here. it was created at a point in time. no abra-cadabra, magical meanings... they just happened to pop up.



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Re: The Role of Mushrooms today (Posted Jan. 11, 2002) [Re: geokills]
    #521628 - 01/15/02 09:57 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Technically humans are not parasites even though it could be argued they act like them sometimes. I would give you a more detailed explanation but I think it would be better for you to look up the biological defenition of what makes one organism a parasite.
Dictionary.com is good. Some of the encyclopedia sites are good too. Or just search for parasites. As for what the earth is, that is another question. I am open to the idea that the earth could be a living organism, but a number of other questions would have to be answered first. What about other plantets? Are we going to say that planets that are just balls of rock are alive? What about gaseous planets like Jupiter. We already have some criteria for what makes something alive or what makes something life so I guess it is up to us humans to figure it out. Anti-scientific spiritualists often play loose and fast with what makes something alive without providing any criteria or defining what they mean. I am not ready to say that plastic, rocks, watches, or glass are alive even though they do some cool stuff when trippn. Some worship the earth and some worship the sky and some, like myself just don't worship. The belief that inanimate objects have spirits is called animism by the way.
I always thought it should be "inanimism". he he

fred


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